Shard of Love and NBG

[Catacl]

<p>Let me start by saying i tanked SoL today and found it to be great fun, and an amazing looking zone. The idea of an appearance only loot zone is brilliant, which brings me to the crux of my post. I'd like to open up discussion about NBG and appearance items. Had a guy in our grp today who hit need on any appearance items that dropped. The rest of the group greeded at first, and then started to need when they realized they couldn't win otherwise. I don't want to get into the whole ninja looter argument here, but would rather discuss how everyone feels about pressing need on appearance items in and appearance only zone. There it is....discuss away. I will reserve judgement as i'm very interested in other people's views on this.</p>

[Sharakari]

<p>Plain and simple.... discuss the loot options before you enter and agree on them.</p><p>P.S.  this zone is doable by 2-3 people so finding a group that will agree on the loot options should not be difficult.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Sharakari@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Plain and simple.... discuss the loot options before you enter and agree on them.</p><p>P.S.  this zone is doable by 2-3 people so finding a group that will agree on the loot options should not be difficult.</p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>Loot details should be worked out before you ever zone in. When it comes to appearance loot... I'd say "Need" on it if you want it, "Greed" on it if you don't really want it. If you want to collect them, go ahead and "Need" them. If you want to win them as the other person, you should be "Needing" on them as well, since you want them. Just make that clear at the beginning how you expect folks to use the system.</p><p>If it gets abused, then set it to simple lotto and give everyone a yes-or-no chance at it, or set it to leader only and force them to /random if you're really that concerned.</p>

[Catacl]

<p>Let me clarify, i'm not upset per se that a person needed on items in a grp......that's what the system is for. I was trying to start a discussion on what folks actually think about pressing need on item that are appearance only. It's not like collectibles that you actually do need to finish a quest, or gear upgrades that you need to increase your efficacy in grps. These items have no tangible benefit, be it quest, or ability related they are in fact appearance only. I agree that folks should work out loot details ahead of time, i should have done that, but as it was the first time for 5 of us and 1 person had been there and already, he knew that it was appearance only, he knew that the vast majority of the grp would default to normal etiquette and greed on things that truly are un needed by a toon. As i said...i don't want to start a referendum on one player's actions, as it could just be simple misunderstanding. I'd actually much rather see what folks feel about pressing need on appearance only items, as you all's views may indeed effect how i set loot options on subsequent SoL runs.</p>

[Sharakari]

<p><cite>Cataclyx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Let me clarify, i'm not upset per se that a person needed on items in a grp......that's what the system is for. I was trying to start a discussion on what folks actually think about pressing need on item that are appearance only. It's not like collectibles that you actually do need to finish a quest, or gear upgrades that you need to increase your efficacy in grps. These items have no tangible benefit, be it quest, or ability related they are in fact appearance only. I agree that folks should work out loot details ahead of time, i should have done that, but as it was the first time for 5 of us and 1 person had been there and already, he knew that it was appearance only, he knew that the vast majority of the grp would default to normal etiquette and greed on things that truly are un needed by a toon. As i said...i don't want to start a referendum on one player's actions, as it could just be simple misunderstanding. I'd actually much rather see what folks feel about pressing need on appearance only items, as you all's views may indeed effect how i set loot options on subsequent SoL runs.</p></blockquote><p>I would have to disagree and say that to some people, appearnce armor is just as important (i.e. tangible as you put it).  I think Barx summed it up.  If you want it, need it.  If you could go either way but it's not that important, greed it.  I'll say that I pressed need on several of the items because I thought they were cool looking.</p>

[Catacl]

<p>I see your point, but i guess when i read the word greed..it's the same as the word want to me. The need option stands out in my mind as "this is an item i must have" kinda thing. But i do agree that for SoL, the old school lotto system is the best choice for quelling any bad blood involved in really "wanting" those appearances.</p>

[Landiin]

In that case I'll just set to leader only and loot it all <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aule]

I think for most people, need and want are the same word.

[yadlajoi]

i soooo play eq2 for appearance gear... what a waste of developement resources to create apperance only gear

[Barx]

<p><cite>yadlajoi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i soooo play eq2 for appearance gear... what a waste of developement resources to create apperance only gear</blockquote><p>So the content doesn't suit your particular likes, that does not make it a waste of development resources.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>yadlajoi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i soooo play eq2 for appearance gear... what a waste of developement resources to create apperance only gear</blockquote><p>Enough people do, and their subscription money pays for development of content you like.</p>

[Lleren]

<p><cite>Sharakari@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cataclyx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Let me clarify, i'm not upset per se that a person needed on items in a grp......that's what the system is for. I was trying to start a discussion on what folks actually think about pressing need on item that are appearance only. It's not like collectibles that you actually do need to finish a quest, or gear upgrades that you need to increase your efficacy in grps. These items have no tangible benefit, be it quest, or ability related they are in fact appearance only. I agree that folks should work out loot details ahead of time, i should have done that, but as it was the first time for 5 of us and 1 person had been there and already, he knew that it was appearance only, he knew that the vast majority of the grp would default to normal etiquette and greed on things that truly are un needed by a toon. As i said...i don't want to start a referendum on one player's actions, as it could just be simple misunderstanding. I'd actually much rather see what folks feel about pressing need on appearance only items, as you all's views may indeed effect how i set loot options on subsequent SoL runs.</p></blockquote><p>I would have to disagree and say that to some people, appearnce armor is just as important (i.e. tangible as you put it).  I think Barx summed it up.  If you want it, need it.  If you could go either way but it's not that important, greed it.  I'll say that I pressed need on several of the items because I thought they were cool looking.</p></blockquote><p>To me, need is to be pressed when you can and will use it, either right then, or soon.  If the item is legendary or below it also includes might use it but not sure.  At least this is how I tend to instruct folks to roll when goofing around in pickup groups. </p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Definately get agreement before hand.  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Need </span>means that it's an improvement for you like stats.  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Greed</span> means you'd like to have it.  If someone 'needed' on an appearence item say something to them.  Second time kick him.</span></p>

[skycruise]

<p>Add another button in between Greed and Need that says Appearance.  Need Before Appearance Before Greed.</p>

[arksun]

<p>Well with such a large nerf going in on the avatar loot, and little dev response to the 50 pages of that its nice to see time was set aside to make a zone for pink wings, a heart shield and other items of such flavor.</p><p>To answer your question, if you set on NBG before you zone in wether its appearance armor or not, if someone wants it they are gonna hit need if they really don't care they are gonna hit greed. If not just like others have said in this thread, set the loot to lotto or leader only and hand it out.</p>

[Froed20]

<p>"Need" and "Greed" are objective to everyone.  When it comes to all loot details, there should be an understanding worked out between the group before entering any zone on how you handle loot.  Appearance gear for all intents and purposes has no stats and is purely fluff.  Therefore, "need" and "greed" change their meanings (imo) to "want" and "don't care."  If you want the item, click need.  If you don't want it, decline.  If it doesn't matter to you either way, hit greed.  Those that actually want the item can battle it out with the dice, those who don't care can get a chance if the feelings are mutual group-wide. </p><p>Need and greed were designed with the intent of making a quick and easy way to distribute loot, but we don't have to take them to literally mean that you must absolutely need the item as an upgrade to hit need.  When it comes to appearance stuff, as long as it has no stats and the rest of the group is fine with it, those who want it should feel free to state it by clicking need.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"Need" and "Greed" are <em>objective</em> to everyone.  When it comes to all loot details, there should be an understanding worked out between the group before entering any zone on how you handle loot.  Appearance gear for all intents and purposes has no stats and is purely fluff.  Therefore, "need" and "greed" change their meanings (imo) to "want" and "don't care."  If you want the item, click need.  If you don't want it, decline.  If it doesn't matter to you either way, hit greed.  Those that actually want the item can battle it out with the dice, those who don't care can get a chance if the feelings are mutual group-wide. </p><p>Need and greed were designed with the intent of making a quick and easy way to distribute loot, but we don't have to take them to literally mean that you must absolutely need the item as an upgrade to hit need.  When it comes to appearance stuff, as long as it has no stats and the rest of the group is fine with it, those who want it should feel free to state it by clicking need.</p></blockquote><p>I think you mean <em>subjective</em> there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>But yeah, they solve the issue that the old lotto system had -- you either wanted it at least a tiny bit or not at all, there was no difference between someone OMG UPGRADE wanting something and the guy that just wants to sell it to the vendor or feed it to his altar. NBG "solves" that by adding that middle tier of "Greed," but the group still needs to have an understanding of how those levels are defined.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if this is the biggest issue with this zone, it is a resounding success.</p>