The "new" Rays of Disintegration -- reuse timer?

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>I like the new Rays, as it'll add a nice fire-based fill-up to the wizard arsenal... Even the cast time is ok... The re-use timer though is left at 2 minutes, which is rather long in my opinion.</p><p>Can we get it lowered to 45 seconds like the unmodified Ice Comet? As it stands now, it's really a 1-shot-per-fight thing, which is not that great...</p><p>D.</p>

[Hina]

<p>Lowering the reuse would cause balancing problems, as it currently matches the reuse timer on Acid storm , the Warlock equivalent and probably most other lvl 80 class spells. Unless you're proposing they lower the reuse on all lvl 80 "class defining" abilities <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  As is, im not even sure its particularly "balanced" as it does more dmg than before and possibly makes it more powerful than other lvl 80 spells, but that's another discussion.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Hi isis23,</p><p>that Spell was changed from a multi-user Spell (in a group with 5 casters and 1 healer you could easily do 5 times the damage) to a single Spell and the Damage which is done is now lower than Ice Comet.</p><p>The difference between those two Spells is (values on my char):Ice Comet does 9651-17210 cold damage, Stuns Target, Throws Target Back, Blurs Vision of Target, 46% Harder to Resist (Master 1), 35m Range.Rays o.D. does 9047-13154 heat damage, no side effects, 100% Harder to Resist, 50m Range.</p><p>So we have with RoD:</p><p>- no side effects- less damage</p><p>+ Harder to Resist+ 15m more Range</p><p>Don't know if a more than 250% reuse (and, if you have some gear, a more than 500% reuse) is ok then if you value in the Plusses and Minusses you get by comparing those spells.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[slippery]

I think his point was that Warlocks have Acid Storm, which has a 2 minute reuse, is a dumb fire pet that dies to ae's and is generally completely worthless. Why should Ray do more damage then Ice Comet? It just plain shouldn't. You are lucky enough that it casts as fast as it does and got a damage increase that it shouldn't. The functionality of the spell shouldn't be changing at all but people don't know what is good for them.

[theriatis]

<p>Hi Slippery,</p><p>yes, it shouldn't be changed and yes, it should not do more damage then Ice Comet... wasn't our point.</p><p>The point was the reuse on that spell, and here i compared one Wizard Spell to another. I won't even touch other classes spells, because i don't know anything about it, so, i just talk about things i know <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And, talking about a dumbfirepet which dies in aoes and is completely worthless: You're talking about Protoflame, right ? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[slippery]

No, Acid Storm, the spell Warlocks got when Wizards got Rays. You know, the spell that already got BUFFED right now when it didn't need to. Next you are going to tell me that Fusion should be a shorter recast since Ice Comet is only 45 seconds. This spell is already more damage then it should be and a pretty efficient spell, it needs no change.

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>I didn't ask for a damage increase, or a cast-time decrease (I think I specifically said I was happy with those). The re-use timer though is, in my opinion, too long.</p><p>As for your dumbfire pet -- as with all dumbfire pets -- it's getting changed to be a DoT with a graphic, and as such unkillable by AEs, so that point is moot.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Hi Slippery,</p><p>The last sentence was irony. Sorry, i'll mark that the next time.</p><p>And no, Fusion does way more damage (in fact, tripple if you position it right) so the reuse is right where it should be.</p><p>But, as i said, i'm just comparing Wizard spells here. I don't know the least of Warlock Spells, but i have no problemsif Acid Storm gets changed into a useful spell, infact i don't have any problems with changing the $Useless_Spell that$Class has into something useful... but, i won't advocate it, that is something for the $Classes_Boards and for the$Class which knows about it. So, Rays got changed, it's on test, and we feedbacked it, if you want Acid Storm changed,there are $Class Boards for that.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[slippery]

Making the reuse of a spell shorter effectively increases the damage of the spell. How do you guys not understand this? It means your class does more dps. It means you have a spell that does more damage up sooner then a spell that does less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Rays. Rays didn't get changed because of Wizards, it got changed because other classes where too dumb to realize how good the spell was for them.

[Noaani]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Rays didn't get changed because of Wizards, it got changed because other classes where too dumb to realize how good the spell was for them.</blockquote><p>/agree.</p><p>I prefer Rays how it is on live, but I am not going to complain about this change.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Rays got changed from 2 minutes to 1 minute reuse.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Hikinami]

<p>Cool 1 min doesn't sound too bad.</p>

[Ge'Sar]

<p>Really? Man even as a wizard I'm learning towards saying that OP.  Have to see how much it changes the parse.</p><p>Thanks SOE!</p>

[Gungo]

<p>This whole post explains why re-re's shouldnt be allowed to post on intesting feedback unless they are actually TESTING.</p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Hmm... no? Nothing was patched and re-use remains at 2 minutes... Where did you see it changed?</p>

[Griffinhart]

<p><cite>Peralin@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cool 1 min doesn't sound too bad.</p></blockquote><p>1 Min is definitely more in line to the spell.  2 Minutes was too long.  On live in my raid group Ray's hits for 20 to 40K x3(4) (3 to 4 mages in my group usually).  Now it should land for 30 to 50.  Not quite as nice as Ice Comet, but it is a spell I will work into my rotation.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Hm, thought it was patched today and i saw it on that Spell... uh... i hope i haven't misread <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I'll check later (currently in a Group).</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p><p>EDIT: I misread. Oh well... it's not changed yet.</p>

[corndog2451]

<p>It does not need to be changed at all. 2 min is fine, they already made it better with this change, so quit crying that you need a lower recast. Theres enough temp buffs that will help your recast if you line your stuff up right.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Hm, if i count every dps increase from my raidgroup in:</p><p>before: 30k x2-5 = 60k-150k every 2 minutes. (x2, because i always have at least a 2nd Caster in my group)</p><p>after: ~35-40k every 2 minutes.</p><p>Sounds fair, hu ?</p><p><em>Stop talking nonsense !!!</em></p><p>Thats a Raid-DPS decrease / Minimal Personal DPS increase what happened.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>So what you're saying is you should be able to do the same dmg as 3-4 mages before? And THAT sounds fair to you? Seriously, wizards are given a lot of attention(unlike their warlock counterparts) and this is a bonus to you, stop complaining.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>No,</p><p>i don't and didn't say that.</p><p>STOP LAYING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.</p><p>Thanks a lot.</p><p>theriatis.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>What exactly are you looking for then lol, your comparison to previous raid dps and current single dps really hinted at the desire to have all that raid dps back, only all of it from you now.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>No,</p><p>i didn't. As i said, don't make assumptions based on what you think.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>Anyone would make that assumption based on what you said. Way to not answer the question and say what you think would be "fair" to you.</p>

[Anurra]

<p>Looks like English is not his first language, so maybe be a little bit more patient with him.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Ok.</p><p>Here's what i think: If the Spell gets a 1 minute reuse it would be fine by me.</p><p>Still less DPS than other spells, but more inline.</p><p>I stopped thinking about Personal DPS awhile ago - because only one swallow doesn't make summer. (Proverb).</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p><p>EDIT: Thats right, english is not my first language, but i answered to another guy more above. And yes, you COULD make that assumption that i wanted to have the same DPS, but i didn't think about that as i posted it.I don't think about everything weird what you could someone interpret in what i write, if i would think about everythingbad how someone could mess with what i post, i would stop writing here.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>What are you trying to make it in line with, your other nukes? If thats the case sure your theory would be somewhat correct I guess. But what about making it in line with the other lvl 80 class specials? Many class specials are worse than rays in it's current form on test, and would be vastly worse if they reduced the reuse as well. I think they've already gave ammunition for every other class to complain about their lvl 80 spell, and adding more to rays would give even more reason for complaint.</p><p>I understand that whining is usually how things get done in eq2, and wizards have gotten very good at it. But every now and again it's not a bad thing to just accept a gift and be happy with it, don't be a spoiled brat.</p>

[Hina]

<p>To be honest, i do not care if this spell gets reduced to a 1minute base recast, but i do think it jeopordizes class balance, so im simply requesting that the design team reconsider how this change effects balance of wizards vs warlocks.  As is, i think the change to have it a shorter cast time and do more damage is threatening the balance and seriously needs to be considered.  All im asking is that if a spell that was designed at lvl 80 with other classes in mind is changed, that those other classes lvl 80 spells ALSO be changed to account for the balance issue. </p><p>There is no way acid storm on live currently does the amount of dmg RoD does for wizards (as is now), but this change furthers the gap and im wanting these changes to be made with some thought behind them rather than just thrown in at the request of anyone.  All your spells could be reduced to 1 second reuse for all i care, so long as the same attention is also given to the counter class, which in this case, is warlocks.  All i ask is that acid storm and RoD have mirroring base reuse and cast times.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>Simple Solution:</p><p>Get Acid Storm changed.</p><p>I couldn't care less if it gets changed to a better spell.</p><p>I couldn't care less if $Any_Other_Class has a $Useless_Spell and gets it changed into a $Good_Spell.</p><p>But, i would then not come to the Boards and cry about that another Class gets a $Good_Spell.</p><p>I would be happy for the other class. Really.</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Raster]

<p>Good to see Wizards getting their spell fixed.  I still cringe at the thought of "Casting Rays of Disintegration" popping up on my screen. </p><p>Only time I have ever got any use from Rays is when I "muted" one for a Mana.</p>

[Draco the Grey]

<p><cite>theriatis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Simple Solution:</p><p>Get Acid Storm changed.</p></blockquote><p>While they're at it, can us Conjurors get our crappy Communion spell changed?  Even a 1 minute recast would be nice for soloing since our other crappy dumbfires are eventually being changed into the the dubuffs that we're getting instead of the fixes we really want.</p><p>I hear Vampirism is pretty terrible too.  I'm sure Necromancers would love to see that changed.</p><p>And then there's Doppleganger and Puppetmaster... (SOE sure had a thing for limited pets for the level 80 specials.)</p><p>Fact is, the new RoD at a 2 minute recast is already better than other mages level 80 specials, and improving the spells of one class relative to others does affect things like raid desirability and perception of group value.</p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Let's be serious here... this one spell -- whether it gets modified or not -- will not change things one bit, as far as desirability goes -- in raids or in groups-- for either warlocks, necromancers or conjurors.</p><p>Furthermore, while you're harping about SoE's "thing" for limited pets, you seem eager to ignore the fact that those pets are getting changed -- probably at about the same time as RoD -- to become unkillable DoTs, thus improving them significantly. Moreover, as far as conjurors and necromancers are concerned, it was never stated that the damage output of those dumbfire pets would be decreased to make them into debuffs.</p><p>Even if they are indeed the debuffs spoken of, then the debuff component will more than likely be added to the damage they do, rather than negate it. Changes are, however, that any debuffs you get will be a new line altogether.</p><p>In any case, as was posted above, if you feel that any of your class's spells are unbalanced, weak, useless or whatever, then ask for them to be changed -- you can even say "Hey, you know... wizards/assassins/shadowknights/secret agents, get spell X that does Y, why can't we get something similar?" instead of coming here and whining about how someone else got all the toys and they shouldn't get any more.</p>

[slippery]

Really? I don't see anything at all in this live update about unkillable dots, and that doesn't even begin to address the fact that most of these spells are likely to still be terrible. I do see rays in this update though. Also what you fail to realize is people aren't complaining about their own class, we are saying Wizards are fine and the spell doesn't need a faster reuse. Faster reuse = more dps that Wizards do not need. But you obviously don't understand this so there is no point in arguing it. The spell shouldn't be changing to begin with. Rays is a great spell as it is on live. I'm a Warlock now and i love it. I also can't count how many times I had to explain how good it was as a Wizard. The reality is the top players of every mage class talk about how great Rays is on live. It is the other people who simply don't understand that don't like it.

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Whether we like RoD as it is on Live or not, I am going with the assumption that it is getting changed -- as it is on Test. And the changes I am suggesting are, obviously, for the version on Test.</p><p>As for dumbfires getting changed, as I posted above, the timing may be different -- I never said it was certain to be in this LU -- but, according to what was said at Fan Faire, they are indeed getting changed.</p><p>Finally, you are right... I won't argue with you about whether wizard dps is "just right" or not. Quite frankly, you will think I am biased one way and I will think you are biased another so it really wouldn't be a constructive argument. I've made my request, and whether it becomes a reality or not does not lie in my hands or yours. /shrug</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>But every now and again it's not a bad thing to just accept a gift and be happy with it, don't be a spoiled brat.</blockquote><p>Depending on the wizard, this change will increase your DPS more than the wizard you are grouped with.</p><p>I have no issue casting this spell in a group or raid, and only ever hold it when there is a friend who also happens to be a mage in that group. If there is someone I do not particularly like, I will happily set ACT up to tell me when they are casting a particular spell, and hit RoD just then.</p><p>About to cast Apocolypse on an AE encounter? Nope, its RoD.</p><p>A necro about to Lifeburn? Nope, RoD again.</p><p>Its non wizard mages that should be happy with this change. As a wizard, it has very little actual effect on how I play my class in order to maximize my personal DPS, and does not alter that personal DPS much at all. All it does is increase <em>your</em> chances of matching my DPS when I am doing everything I can to get as much as I can.</p><p>The complaints are unwarrented, but so are your comments.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p>half the reuse but also half the dmg.  there problem solved <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Noaani]

<p>Would have to halve the casting timer as well if they were to do that.</p>