Extra Rooms and Kelethin Acorns [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Kaian

08-28-2009, 01:11 PM

First and foremost, I love the extra space in houses, the increased item count as a result and especially the windows in Kelethin and Maj'Dul.However.I had concerns right from when I first heard about these as to where the extra rooms would be and how they would impact on my existing houses and decoration designs, some of which have involved huge amounts of work to put together. And some of my worst fears have been realised in the Kelethin designs.Whereas extra rooms in the other houses have open entrances through to the new space with the minimum of disruption to existing fixtures and fittings, the Kelethin houses all get extra ramps up/down to new areas which take up huge amounts of floor and wall space and are incredibly difficult to disguise.Two of my main decorating projects have been in 3-room acorns and the extra ramps have completely destroyed areas of these. One is do-able but will leave an area in my garden looking very messy and cluttered rather than serene. The other is going to involve hours and hours of rebuilding and completely ruin the look of the room even when finished. It won't even be possible to rebuild the design of the room (a Japanese bathroom) elsewhere in the house as every single room will have either a ramp intruding into it or a large hole in the floor where a ramp leads down. I applaud the expanded space in all houses, and item count, and the new windows ... but I have to confess myself bitterly disappointed at this aspect of the change to the Kelethin acorns. It would be far better if access to the upper floor was still just via the original ramp, with an archway through to the new room and no direct access down from the second room. That gives the additional space, still makes sense logistically and doesn't interfere with anyone's pre-existing and much loved creations.Is there any possibility of this?

cr0wangel

08-28-2009, 01:29 PM

Here an exemple of the project, this is a 3-rooms acorn, the white lines show where the new ramp will appear. It's very bad and destroying any decorations people could have been done in that room before the update.I hope the idea will be reconsidered and that a simple door (upstairs) will be added, we want more space but NO ramps. The ramp interfers with what was already build.<img src="http://www.raven-mythic.com/images/gallery/11735/20090527T203942/images/eq2000211-b.jpg" width="600" height="480" />

AnjelikaR

08-28-2009, 02:55 PM

In addition to the ramp taking up a large portion of space, we also lost ceiling height:Currently:<img src="http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/Aspendawn_blog/kelethinoneroom3.jpg" />On Test:<img src="http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/Aspendawn_blog/kelethinoneroom1.jpg" />

Haohmaru

08-28-2009, 03:08 PM

Looking into this.My goal was not to disrupt prior ceiling heights (I'm not happy I overlooked that at all actually) so at the very least, that's getting fixed. I'll see what I can do regarding room placement in the 3room(now 4room to be clear for others) layout while I'm at it.

Huntress Jellica

08-28-2009, 03:23 PM

Would it be possible to add more windows to the Kelethin homes? =)

cr0wangel

08-28-2009, 04:42 PM

Thank you for looking it up. As explained above, a door in the upstairs room could connect to the extra room, that would remove the ramp we don't want and fix the ceiling issue.

Haohmaru

08-28-2009, 08:54 PM

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here an exemple of the project, this is a 3-rooms acorn, the white lines show where the new ramp will appear. It's very bad and destroying any decorations people could have been done in that room before the update.I hope the idea will be reconsidered and that a simple door (upstairs) will be added, we want more space but NO ramps. The ramp interfers with what was already build.</blockquote>No matter what I add or where, for some layouts, even a doorway will interfere with the decor. That was most definitely the trade off here for more space.However, the ramp placement on the far wall was rather ill placed. Very much agree. So I've made some changes and while they won't conform exactly to what you want, it is a better compromise overall for as many people as possible I hope.Few things to note - a doorway on the upstairs floor of the entry room would not work due to the taller ceiling in the neighboring room (stacking them that way was a no-go). Plus, I'd have to shave down the wall bulge, which could affect quite a few layouts as well. It was possible to add a doorway off another wall, but I'd have to remove the window from the additional room due to how the Faydark view is setup. The position of the windows was intentional and one of the factors in getting them working. Removing a window isn't something we want to do either as they're a nice feature and one that was asked for, for quite some time. If anything, we wanted to add more. Perhaps when we find time to revisit homes again to see what we can do about adding outdoor areas.So what we came up with was to shrink the ramps size significantly and straddle it -over- the doorway in the same room. Assumably, most people would be less likely to decorate heavily there. The ceiling height has been restored to the original height as well (apologies again), and we made the new rooms ceiling height about the same as this one so there's more air space to play with.<img src="http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7118/kelethin1.jpg" width="876" height="704" />Next up, I'll be reviewing the 1room and see what I can do there to fix the issues you brought up AnjelikaR. Likely to be along the same lines as the above tweaks.

Ozymundas

08-28-2009, 09:43 PM

Thank you for the detailed update! You did an awesome job, and that level of response to feedback is outstanding!

Haohmaru

08-28-2009, 09:48 PM

<cite>AnjelikaR wrote:</cite><blockquote>In addition to the ramp taking up a large portion of space, we also lost ceiling height:Currently:On Test:</blockquote>1room has been updated as well. The ramp is over the doorway and shrunk (width primarily) to be as unobstrusive as possible. The ceiling on the first floor has been restored exactly as it was, and the second floor ceiling was heightened as well to allow for another potential loft setup.

AnjelikaR

08-28-2009, 11:13 PM

Kaian

08-29-2009, 08:48 AM

Many thanks for taking the time to look at this.The new placement is definitely better than the old - it still utterly messes up my current designs but it's going to be easier to do work-arounds in an area that already has a doorway to contend with, rather than a space that has a lot of interior building work in it to make use of an uninterrupted wall. It's a great compromise and I'm astounded at the quick response and thoughtful fix to this. Thank you.

cr0wangel

08-29-2009, 06:04 PM

Thank you for the quick fix, it's not the perfection but, better than what was before. Plus, I'd have to shave down the wall bulge, which could affect quite a few layouts as well. About the bulging wall in the acorn, I thought people hated that wall, we cannot hang tapestry or anything on it, since it's curved. Removing the curve of the wall would actually be a good thing!

Enna

08-29-2009, 07:42 PM

<cite>Haohmaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>AnjelikaR wrote:</cite><blockquote>In addition to the ramp taking up a large portion of space, we also lost ceiling height:Currently:On Test:</blockquote>1room has been updated as well. The ramp is over the doorway and shrunk (width primarily) to be as unobstrusive as possible. The ceiling on the first floor has been restored exactly as it was, and the second floor ceiling was heightened as well to allow for another potential loft setup.</blockquote>Many thanks! =)The lowering of the acorn ceiling, while I was willing to try to work with it (the window was worth it, IMHO), was definitely non-optimal.If I can keep my existing loft and - still - get an extra room besides... *cheers*In the former two-room, now upgraded to three-room (triple-decker), the floor of the now-middle room, formerly downstairs room, got raised.So... IF you're still in a tweaking mood... since raising a floor absolutely requires re-placing each and every item that was sitting on that floor, if the two (now three) room acorn's formerly lower, now middle floor could be nudged back to its original level, without upsetting everything else you're doing, that would be grand!If not, I'll find a way to make it work... one way or another. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Thanks again for all your efforts - they are appreciated! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kamimura

08-30-2009, 01:43 AM

I'm glad to see this change, as well. I think the new ramp placement and style is much better than what was originally going to go in. Thanks for looking into this! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Enna

09-01-2009, 10:22 AM

Since I don't see a response to the inquiry about 2-room acorns, I'll ask again...I'm mostly just curious, mind you. I figure the window and added space is worth a bit of re-arranging.However, I'm not sure if you noticed that there was a raising of what used to be the lower room's floor (now middle room) in the 2-room (now 3-room) acorn layout.If the change remains like this, it will require every piece of furniture / carpeting that was placed on that floor to be reset. I can live with that, if needed! However, if it's not needed, well... that would be even grander. *grins*Is that change "set in stone," or at all under consideration for tweaking?Thanks again for the additions, and thanks for doing such a great job with them. =) Before:<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a196/Eden_Evergreen/Temp/EQ2_000078.jpg" width="1280" height="977" />After:<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a196/Eden_Evergreen/Temp/EQ2_000095.jpg" />

Enna

09-01-2009, 11:23 AM

Nixing the additional examples, since the issue has been addressed. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Haohmaru

09-01-2009, 10:19 PM

<cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since I don't see a response to the inquiry about 2-room acorns, I'll ask again...I'm mostly just curious, mind you. I figure the window and added space is worth a bit of re-arranging.However, I'm not sure if you noticed that there was a raising of what used to be the lower room's floor (now middle room) in the 2-room (now 3-room) acorn layout.If the change remains like this, it will require every piece of furniture / carpeting that was placed on that floor to be reset. I can live with that, if needed! However, if it's not needed, well... that would be even grander. *grins*Is that change "set in stone," or at all under consideration for tweaking?Thanks again for the additions, and thanks for doing such a great job with them. =) Before:After:</blockquote>Howdy Enna - thanks for catching this!The floor has been restored to the original position and the bottom floor moved down by the appropriate amount. Everything should drop right back in as you'd expect! The changes should be up with the next Art push to test (possibly this week).

Haohmaru

09-01-2009, 10:26 PM

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for the quick fix, it's not the perfection but, better than what was before. Plus, I'd have to shave down the wall bulge, which could affect quite a few layouts as well. About the bulging wall in the acorn, I thought people hated that wall, we cannot hang tapestry or anything on it, since it's curved. Removing the curve of the wall would actually be a good thing!</blockquote>I think the (now) 4room layout on test actually had the bulge modified already - I flattened the main frontal curve so that the wall-thunking code would recognize it. The (now) 7room Kelethin layout was recently tweaked as well (but is not on Test yet). So while the bulge is there, it's at least a little more useful. May disrupt what was around that area of course, but should make using that wall overall a bit easier.

Enna

09-02-2009, 02:13 PM

<cite>Haohmaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enna wrote:</cite><blockquote>(snip)I'm not sure if you noticed that there was a raising of what used to be the lower room's floor (now middle room) in the 2-room (now 3-room) acorn layout.(snip)Is that change "set in stone," or at all under consideration for tweaking?Thanks again for the additions, and thanks for doing such a great job with them. =)</blockquote>Howdy Enna - thanks for catching this!The floor has been restored to the original position and the bottom floor moved down by the appropriate amount. Everything should drop right back in as you'd expect! The changes should be up with the next Art push to test (possibly this week).</blockquote>Oh, many many thanks! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I enjoy playing on Test, and figure that helping catch bugs like this is part of "earning" the privelege to be there. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Pleased to be of service. *curtseys*/salute

Enna

09-02-2009, 02:14 PM

<cite>Haohmaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for the quick fix, it's not the perfection but, better than what was before. Plus, I'd have to shave down the wall bulge, which could affect quite a few layouts as well. About the bulging wall in the acorn, I thought people hated that wall, we cannot hang tapestry or anything on it, since it's curved. Removing the curve of the wall would actually be a good thing!</blockquote>I think the (now) 4room layout on test actually had the bulge modified already - I flattened the main frontal curve so that the wall-thunking code would recognize it. The (now) 7room Kelethin layout was recently tweaked as well (but is not on Test yet). So while the bulge is there, it's at least a little more useful. May disrupt what was around that area of course, but should make using that wall overall a bit easier.</blockquote>Oh, the ability to use that "shared" wall will definitely be worth a bit of re-arranging. Thank you for that, as well! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

GrunEQ

09-02-2009, 04:40 PM

Yeah, hate the bulge....any thing you can do to make that wall useable would be welcomed.

Telden

09-03-2009, 08:19 PM

Haohmaru, it is of course much appreciated the effort you are making to minimize disruption to existing decour, but I have to say that I personally like very much the 1-room through 3-room acorns as they are right now on Test. The 3-room in particular looks exactly like what I imagine it would have looked like if it was designed as a 4-room from the beginning.Yes, that ramp is a little disruptive to my current layout, but well worthwile for getting another room. And if need be, it could be easily hidden behind redwood dividers.However, this new layout you've shown -<img src="http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7118/kelethin1.jpg" width="876" height="704" />Frankly, this lookes like a half-[donkey]ed hack job to me. Ugly, no symetry, and that skinny ramp looks like it will be harder to navigate than a full sized ramp (I hate the stairway in Irontoes Inn and in the Castleview Inn for that reason). Also, it would be impossible to hide that ramp behind redwood dividers without also blocking the doorway.I see that a number of people would prefer no ramp at all, but instead have the 2nd room's ceiling lowered to match the 1st room (like it currently is on Test) and have a doorway between the upstairs rooms. I think this is a good compromise; I can work with that, though I'd prefer the new ramp right where it is on Test now. Besides, nobody likes that bulge in the wall anyway; it's shape makes it impossible to do anything with it currently.Honestly, if that picture above goes live, I'll probably move out.

tkia

09-03-2009, 10:24 PM

Not so much a problem as an observation. In the acorns the north side of each room has always been considerably darker than the south side which has a hidden ambient lightsource placed somewhere. I always found that a little irritating as it can be very difficult to light the north side adequately. Now however, the upstairs rooms all have the window placed on the north wall, but the ambient light is still coming from the south. This just looks plain wrong really. Any chance of moving the hidden light source to the north side so that it appears to come from the window? Or maybe even just add a new one to the north and remove the dark patch altogether? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Telden

09-18-2009, 02:07 PM

I got a chance to hop onto Test this week, so I thought I should give some up to date feedback.Starting with the 1 room acorn - First I'll say that new thin ramp is not difficult to navigate like I was expecting. And the acorn feels very spacious (I think this acorn has the same total interior volume as the expanded 2-room acorn). Also, I had originally thought the way you have the wall texture overlapping-tiled rather than scaled looked tacky, but the look is kinda growing on me. On the whole, if I had a character living in one of these, I'd probably be happy with the changes as they stand now.The 2 room acorn - I'm happy there's been no change to the way you added a room to this acorn. But, I thought you were going to swap locations between this acorn and the guild hall acorn, to match the window view. What happened to that plan?The 3 room acorn - Like the 1-room, I don't dislike the ramp or the wall textures, but I'm still not happy with the asynchronous look this gives the home as a whole. While it doesn't physically disturb much of my placed furniture, it does affect the theme. I think I'll probably redecorate rather than move out, though.The 6 room acorn - I don't think there were any recent changes. The 7th room definitely does not match the outside appearance of the acorn, but I can't think of anyplace else to put it. I think it will be a popular room, being the only tall room in this acorn, but personally I'd just block it off. This would be very easy to do with just a couple of redwood dividers.

cr0wangel

09-20-2009, 11:15 PM

I see that a number of people would prefer no ramp at all, but instead have a doorway between the upstairs rooms. I like the changes he did, but if this option could still be considered, that would be awesome... ramps make people cringe. I would LOVE a simple doorway upstairs. Is it too late for this option?