AA Slider

[RollerDog]

<p>Started new char -- as soon as she reached 10 flipped slider to 100% AA</p><p>Started killing stuff (lev 8 orcs -- levs may be a factor here) -- after several kills I still saw 0% and finally saw less than 1% AA; kept killing lev 8's and after one kill == Boom -- AA jumped to 13.3%; kept killing and no change. I think it finally got to 13.4%. Went to turn in a lev 8 quest and -- boom -- AA jumped to 26.6%.</p><p>Me thinks there is still some work to be done here.</p><p>It was never officially stated but I assumed that if I got 3.1% adventure XP from killing something that I would get 3.1% AA (if slider at 100% AA) -- can devs confirm/deny that?</p>

[Barx]

<p>That's not how AA works.</p><p>Each AA has an amount of AAXP you need to get it. It starts low and ramps up to be quite a bit when you're over 190 AAs.</p><p>Killing L10 stuff gives relatively little combat XP. While that low combat XP number may be still a decent percent (3.1%) of your adventure level, it's only a drop in the bucket of an AA. Combat XP -> AA has always been "grinding," it was a grind at L80 (where the kills give comparatively a LOT of raw XP), now you're trying to fill the same size bucket with an eyedropper instead of a garden hose. If you tried to get that first AA at L80 with just combat -> AA converison, it would probably still go very fast since that first AA is relatively easy to get.</p><p>But quests can give AA in large quantities, especially when your AA level is appropriate to the quest level, since the quests reward direct AAXP.</p><p>The asumption that %-based adventure XP converted directly to the same % AAXP is a false one. The raw XP numbers convert to raw AAXP numbers, which have a very different %.</p>

[RollerDog]

<p>I think you are probably right which is basically a "no" answer to my last question. However, don't forget that I was working toward my 1st AA so even 3% AAXP should be yield something more than a virtually invisible increase (less than 0.1% AA).</p><p>There is also still the big jump to 13.3% after n kills and to 26.6% after a quest that is below level 10 (and therefore not elgible for giving AA xp except maybe whatever adventure XP it would have given). I think this part of the process is still broken.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>RollerDog wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think you are probably right which is basically a "no" answer to my last question. However, don't forget that I was working toward my 1st AA so even 3% AAXP should be yield something more than a virtually invisible increase (less than 0.1% AA).</p><p>There is also still the big jump to 13.3% after n kills and to 26.6% after a quest that is below level 10 (and therefore not elgible for giving AA xp except maybe whatever adventure XP it would have given). I think this part of the process is still broken.</p></blockquote><p>That's true, if you did get a huge jump off just a random nth mob and then a huge jump off a quest that does not reward direct AAXP, then there is likely some kind of display issue going on.</p>

[Calain80]

You probably looted a rare treasure (e.g. a status item). <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gamer1965]

Also consider that there is a 'conversion' of combat/quest xp to achievement xp similar to what you see as a lvl80, especially since you've effectively made your lvl 10 just like a lvl 80. As was mentioned earlier, there is no 1:1 ratio when 'converting' combat/quest xp to achievement xp... I kinda think, like Calberak, you simply looted a rare treasured item, and possibly a location discovery as they give DIRECT aa xp, unlike combat xp, which must be 'converted'...

[RollerDog]

<p>I will do some more tests later today but I don't recall any special looting associated with the big jump in AAXP.Believe me, I am looking for any loot I can get since I started naked.</p><p>Considering that your 1st level 10 quest nets you over 40% toward your 1st AA point, I was assuming that I would sees some relatively big jumps due to adventure XP at least in the 1st few AA points. It would be nice to know the underlying mechanics of this feature.</p>

[Excalibur1]

<p>Also, if low adventure level xp to aaxp conversion is low enough it won't give any incentive to use the feature.</p>

[RollerDog]

<p>I got on for a few more minutes -- there may have been some additional downloads since earlier run -- not sure.</p><p>The conversion to AAXP from kills seems to have increased from when I was on earlier. I killed a lev 7 orc -- no change; killed a level 8 orc and AAXP bumped by another 13% to 52%; killed another lev 8 orc and bumped again to 65%. from then on every 2-3 lev 8 kills increased AAXP by 13%. I did turn in one lev 9 quest and I got no bump. There were no loots or area discoveries during this entire sequence.</p><p>It would appear that 13% is the standard increment (at least when having 0 AA's). It would also appear that it takes a certain amount of adventure XP to trigger this standard increment. All together it took around 10-15 level 7-8 kills to get 1st AA. That is probably not too bad an AA rate.</p>

[Barx]

<p>Strange, definately sounds like some kind of strange delay in the AAXP system...</p><p>But I have a possible explanation. If the 1st AA consists of individual AAXP points... then you can really "earn" no less than 1 AAXP point at a time. But if a L7 orc is only giving you say .42 AAXP points after the conversion... then it may be <em>storing</em> your AAXP in a float precision but not actually showing an increase in your AA until you break a new integer (ie going from 1.84 to 2.26). When you only gain a part that doesn't correspond to a new integer (going from 1.08 to 1.50) the scale may not show any real change.</p>

[Aeralik]

<p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</p>

[Excalibur1]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</p></blockquote><p>Doesn't this defeat the purpose of being able to use the aaxp slider bar to gain aaxp at a lower level or 50% to do an even leveling of adventure level and aa level?</p><p>And thanks for adding this in.  I think it is a great addition to the game if the conversion rate for lower levels is appropriate.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</p></blockquote><p>Whee! I was spot on!</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</p></blockquote><p>Doesn't this defeat the purpose of being able to use the aaxp slider bar to gain aaxp at a lower level or 50% to do an even leveling of adventure level and aa level?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. Look at the OP... you don't see increments on every mob, but when you DO see one it jumps a LOT (13% for the first AA (meaning the first AA takes like 8 AAXP points)</p>

[RollerDog]

<p>Cool -- thanks for a little more inside info -- so 350 Adventure xp == 1 AAXP; how many AAXP to equal one AA. I assume it varies based on # of AA's you have. It seemed that for each AAXP I was getting 13% or 13.3% of an AA. This with 0 AA's.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>RollerDog wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cool -- thanks for a little more inside info -- so 350 Adventure xp == 1 AAXP; how many AAXP to equal one AA. I assume it veries based on # of AA's you have. It seemed that for each AAXP I was getting 13% or 13.3% of an AA. This with 0 AA's.</p></blockquote><p>It definately varries.</p><p>Based on what you've said, my guess is it takes 8 AAXP to earn your first AA. The rest should increase from that point on, with the 190th - 200th taking a LOT of AAXP.</p>

[Excalibur1]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. <span style="color: #ff0000;">As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</span></p></blockquote><p>Doesn't this defeat the purpose of being able to use the aaxp slider bar to gain aaxp at a lower level or 50% to do an even leveling of adventure level and aa level?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. Look at the OP... you don't see increments on every mob, but when you DO see one it jumps a LOT (13% for the first AA (meaning the first AA takes like 8 AAXP points)</p></blockquote><p>I was refering to the last part of his statement where he says that as you level up, the percentage gains will become smaller.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. <span style="color: #ff0000;">As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</span></p></blockquote><p>Doesn't this defeat the purpose of being able to use the aaxp slider bar to gain aaxp at a lower level or 50% to do an even leveling of adventure level and aa level?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. Look at the OP... you don't see increments on every mob, but when you DO see one it jumps a LOT (13% for the first AA (meaning the first AA takes like 8 AAXP points)</p></blockquote><p>I was refering to the last part of his statement where he says that as you level up, the percentage gains will become smaller.</p></blockquote><p>They should.</p><p>If you are earning the same amount of adventuring XP, but leveling up your AA level... should the levels not get "longer"? Since they are getting longer, they require more XP... meaning each increment of 1 AAXP point will be smaller. That's the way leveling works. If you want to be level 10 with 200AA, then you should have to work rediculously hard at it.</p>

[RollerDog]

<p>The good news is that you won't have to level very high before a single kill exceeds the 350 adventure XP boundary. That means you will see some kind of AAXP change after every kill (the AAXP percentage will get smaller & smaller but you will see something).</p><p>The biggest problem I had was killing something and seeing NO change -- that will soon go away as I level--</p><p>Thanks again for this feature ==</p>

[Excalibur1]

<p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Excalibur119 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1aa xp is equal to 350 adventure experience.  So when you gain 350 adventure experience you gain 1 alternate advancement experience point.  Since those first few aa levels are really small you will see significant bumps everytime you complete a conversion. <span style="color: #ff0000;">As you level up, the percentage gains will become relatively small.</span></p></blockquote><p>Doesn't this defeat the purpose of being able to use the aaxp slider bar to gain aaxp at a lower level or 50% to do an even leveling of adventure level and aa level?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. Look at the OP... you don't see increments on every mob, but when you DO see one it jumps a LOT (13% for the first AA (meaning the first AA takes like 8 AAXP points)</p></blockquote><p>I was refering to the last part of his statement where he says that as you level up, the percentage gains will become smaller.</p></blockquote><p>They should.</p><p>If you are earning the same amount of adventuring XP, but leveling up your AA level... should the levels not get "longer"? Since they are getting longer, they require more XP... meaning each increment of 1 AAXP point will be smaller. That's the way leveling works. If you want to be level 10 with 200AA, then you should have to work rediculously hard at it.</p></blockquote><p>Yes they should get harder.  I was just asking that they make sure that the "cap" where it becomes increasingly more difficult to level aaxp via conversion isn't set too low. </p><p>Thanks for explaining how the system works though, I think I understand now and am looking forward to my lower level toon to be transfered.</p>

[Barx]

<p>Well, the AA progression is already set and done. As is the regular XP progression and what you kill for a given mob. So long as you're AA doesn't get wildly ahead of your adventuring level you should still see some progression in AA. Once they start to really slow down, it's probably time to unlock your level.</p><p>But to my knowledge there is no new "cap" being added with this system. You just get to convert combat xp to AAxp at a rate of your choosing without having to be at max level.</p>

[Excalibur1]

<p>That's what I meant.  Have them look at the existing curve.</p>

[RollerDog]

<p>One more point for your curve -- with 1 AA I am getting increments of 10% meaning about 10 AAXP per AA.</p><p>Of course, if any tweaks are needed then the "350" number is an easy way to shift things.</p>

[Arkenor]

<p>This is an additional way to gain AA. You'll still be getting all the AA you ever did from quests, nameds, items, and exploration. If they made the conversion any more generous it would probably just get silly. I have 85 AA at level 35. If I'd been able to trade all my xp for AA, instead of just turning xp off, I'd no doubt have hit the cap a long time ago.</p><p>Even with 85 AA at 35, I was making easily 1% AA a minute just beating up greens and blues on the test server right now. If anything, the conversion rate is too generous, and will trivialise the AA system.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even with 85 AA at 35, I was making easily 1% AA a minute just beating up greens and blues on the test server right now. If anything, the conversion rate is too generous, and will trivialise the AA system.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps. But it's still time consuming to grind a full AA once you hit the 100+ range (especially once you start getting 140+), at least at level 80.</p><p>If anything it'll just make powerleveling twinks a bit easier than it is now, which I'm all for.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maltheas@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even with 85 AA at 35, I was making easily 1% AA a minute just beating up greens and blues on the test server right now. If anything, the conversion rate is too generous, and will trivialise the AA system.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps. But it's still time consuming to grind a full AA once you hit the 100+ range (especially once you start getting 140+), at least at level 80.</p><p>If anything it'll just make powerleveling twinks a bit easier than it is now, which I'm all for.</p></blockquote><p>The conversion rate was not changed when the AA bar was added: it just allows you to start converting earlier.</p><p>But yeah, the AAXP needed to ding your next AA drastically increases as you get higher. 140+ that 1% a minute would probably be more like 0.01% a minute, if even that.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Can we just go ahead and display the amount of xp points for each bar and include the points on the xp gain messages?</p><p>I don't get the need to mistify the measurement of xp in eq2.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we just go ahead and display the amount of xp points for each bar and include the points on the xp gain messages?</p><p>I don't get the need to mistify the measurement of xp in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>QFE ^^^</p><p>Agree 100%</p>

[Lord Hackenslash]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we just go ahead and display the amount of xp points for each bar and include the points on the xp gain messages?</p><p>I don't get the need to mistify the measurement of xp in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>I don't care if they add the XP number or not, so I am just curious. How would having a number there improve anything? Is this just a personal preference to see the number or is there some affect on game-play you would expect?</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we just go ahead and display the amount of xp points for each bar and include the points on the xp gain messages?</p><p>I don't get the need to mistify the measurement of xp in eq2.</p></blockquote><p>I don't care if they add the XP number or not, so I am just curious. How would having a number there improve anything? Is this just a personal preference to see the number or is there some affect on game-play you would expect?</p></blockquote><p>It just lets folks calculate things out. "Oh, a L15 mob against a L16 character gives 2529 XP, and you need 77252 XP to make L17" etc. It doesn't really do anything all that beneficial. The amount of XP you need at the higher levels is probably ludicrously high anyway.</p><p>I don't think we really <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">need</span></em> a raw XP #. I wouldn't mind if it was there, as it could be handy for some things, but it's not something we absolutely need.</p>

[QuestingCrafter]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Can we just go ahead and display the amount of xp points for each bar and include the points on the xp gain messages?</blockquote><p>/second</p><p>And an option to hide/display the number on the bar, to satisfy the "immersion" crowd (I don't that specific numbers would be THAT much more immersion-breaking than a bar, but I'm sure someone will make the objection).</p>

[feldon30]

I really need to get my butt over to Test or Test Copy. I'd really like to run a group through Runnyeye or DFC and have AA set to 100% and see how many AAs we get. If we get less than 1 AA for 2 hours of dungeon running, then the ratio needs adjustment.

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't care if they add the XP number or not, so I am just curious. How would having a number there improve anything? Is this just a personal preference to see the number or is there some affect on game-play you would expect?</p></blockquote><p>You can determine much quicker what the more efficient use of your time is.</p><p>If killing a red only offers 10% more xp but takes twice as long as killing blues, you can make a more educated decision on what content you engage in.</p><p>I've also suspected that doing higher con quests leveling up actually provides less aa xp for some reason I can't fathom, actually communicating the values will remove the tinfoil hat so to speak.</p><p>You can also more accurately predict, I need to do x amount of work for y reward.</p><p>What value does hiding the values provide?</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I really need to get my butt over to Test or Test Copy. I'd really like to run a group through Runnyeye or DFC and have AA set to 100% and see how many AAs we get. If we get less than 1 AA for 2 hours of dungeon running, then the ratio needs adjustment.</blockquote><p>Bingo!</p><p>And i would say if its not 1aa / 40mins, something needs adjusting.  Cause take those 6 people and soloquests for 2 hours and see how many aa's you have.</p><p>If it isn't roughly equal, the ratio is broken IMO.</p>

[Greyform]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I really need to get my butt over to Test or Test Copy. I'd really like to run a group through Runnyeye or DFC and have AA set to 100% and see how many AAs we get. If we get less than 1 AA for 2 hours of dungeon running, then the ratio needs adjustment.</blockquote><p>Bingo!</p><p>And i would say if its not 1aa / 40mins, something needs adjusting.  Cause take those 6 people and soloquests for 2 hours and see how many aa's you have.</p><p>If it isn't roughly equal, the ratio is broken IMO.</p></blockquote><p>I hope you're right. I would love to do some crawls and gain a few AA without out leveling some of the other content I want to do.</p>