New racial stuff - someone post a DETAILED list please? :) [Archive]

Boli32

08-28-2009, 09:25 AM

since I just finished doing this for my guild....Looked on Test: New recials, I'm ignoring the tradesklll guff; there seem to be "set" cookie cutter versiosn they put on each race depending if they are caster, tank or scout based.. I hope this makes it easy to understand.<blockquote><div>BarbariansInate:* Immunity to Stun, casting Instant, Recast 5min, Duration 10s* Sprint into Battle (+10 sprint Speed 30% less initial power)* +5% Run SpeeedUSES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>DwarvesInate:* Ultravision* Reduced Mining Speed by 1s* Grants Skill: Disarm Trap* +5% Run SpeeedUSES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>High ElvesInate:* Infravision* 10% power reduction in Transmuting.* Reduced Falling Speed* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)USES VERSION 2</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Frogloks* Unknown, locked on test</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>FaeInate:* Infravision* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* Reduced Falling Speed* GlideUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Wood ElvesInate:* Infravision* Reduces Time to gather/forest by 1s* +5% Speed* TrakingUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>HalflingsInate:* Infravision* Improves Duration of all food by 25%* Pick Pocket casting 1s recast 5min* TrakingUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>EruditeInate:* Aura Vision* Reduces Max Falling Speed * Waterbreathing* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)USES VERSION 2</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>GnomesInate:* Ultravision* Reduces power cost of tinkering by 25%, Increases Tinkering by 10* Repairs all equipment, 12hour recast* Grants Skill: Disarm TrapsUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Half ElvesInate:* Infravision* Reduces time to gather or forest by 1s* Tracking* Increases duration of drinks by 16.67%USES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>HumanInate:* All harvesting reduced by 0.5s* Reduces Awarenes of Enemies, Casting 3s Recast 3min* Reduces recast time on city call spells by 10minUSES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>KerraInate:* Sonicvision* Grants Ability: Safefall* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* TrackingUSES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>ArasaiInate:* Ultravision* Reduces Max Falling Speed* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* GlideUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Dark ElfInate:* Ultravision* +5% Speed* Reduces Max Falling Speed* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>IksarInate:* Aquavision* Out of Combat health regernation of caster by 5 (persume this scales)* Water Breathing* Grants Ability: SafefallUSES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>OgreInate:* Immunity to Stun, casting Instant, Recast 5min Duration 10s* Ultravision* Reduces Mining Time by 1s* Enlarge Caster by 20%USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>RatongaInate:* Pick Pocket, casting 1s recast 5min* Sonicvision* Grants SKill, Disarm Trap* +5% SpeedUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>SarnakInate:* Aquavision* 50% Speed casting 2s recast 5min* Reduces all harvesting by 0.5s if not on a mount.* 5% SpeedUSES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>TrollInate:* Ultravision* Out of Combat health regernation of caster by 5 (persume this scales)* Immune to Fear, Casting 1s recast 5min, Duration 20s* Increases duration of tradeskill food by 25%USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 1 ~ This seems to be tank skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* STA & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Ministration or +5 Disruption/Subjugation* Casting Speed of Beneficial OR Hostile Speed increased by 2%* +5 Defernce, +5 Parry, +5 Deflection, * +2 Deflection, +2 Shield Effectiveness None Combat* Increased drink duration by 10%* Out of Combat power regen increased by 6 (this scales with level)* Reduced Falling Damage by 15%* Heal: 2% of max health, recast 1s casting 2s (out of combat only)Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Health by 3%Resists* Increased Physcial (mitigation)* Increased Arcane</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 2 ~ This seems to be caster skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* INT & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Ministration, +5 Defence* +5 Subjugation, +5 Disruption* Increases +heal and +Spell (this *does* scale with level)* 2% Casting Speed increase None Combat* Mount Speed +5%* +20% duration of tradeskileld drinks* +20% duration of all potions* Out of Combat power regen increased by 9 (this scales with level)* Reduced Falling Damage by 15%Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Incombat Power Regeneration by 5 (persume this scales)Resists* Increased Elemental* Increased Arcane</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 3 ~ This seems to be scout skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* STR & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 ranged, +5 piercing* +2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack* +5 Ministration* 2% Beneficial/hostile casting Speed increase None Combat* 15% increase in stealth movement* Increases trigger count of poisons by 25%* +10% duration of tradeskilled drinks* Out of Combat power regen increased by 6 (this scales with level)Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Power by 1% Increase Health by 2%Resists* Increased Noixous* Increased Arcane</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 4 ~ This seems to be a mixture of abilities (crusader, bard?)Attributes (These Scale)* STR & INT Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Defence, +5 Disruption* +1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE, +1 Deflection* +5 Crushing, +5 Slashing* +1% Casting Speed, +1 RDA, +1DANone Combat* Duration of Food +15%* Out of Combat power regeneration increased by 9 (Scales will level)* Increases Sprint Speed by 10, reduces initial power cost by 33%* +5% SpeedPools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Health by 3%Resists* Increased Physcial* Increased Elemental</div></blockquote>

Vendraen

08-28-2009, 09:27 AM

You rock - thanks! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dirty Jack Rackham

08-28-2009, 09:42 AM

<blockquote><div>Dark ElfInate:* Ultravision* +5% Speed* Reduces Max Falling Speed* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)* +100% Melee crit bonus, +100% Double attack, +50 Base CA, increases all back attacks by 100%, Increase poison trigger by 350%, increases poison damage by 100%USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote>Are you positive this is accurate? Looks like a send up to me. Pretty much the only race with anything useful is Teir'Dal. <blockquote><div>Version 3 ~ This seems to be scout skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* STR & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 ranged, +5 piercing* +2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack* +5 Ministration* 2% Beneficial/hostile casting Speed increaseNone Combat* 15% increase in stealth movement* Increases trigger count of poisons by 25%* +10% duration of tradeskilled drinks* Out of Combat power regen increased by 6 (this scales with level)Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Power by 1% Increase Health by 2%Resists* Increased Noixous* Increased Arcane</div></blockquote>Why is the scout track using wisdom as an attribute? There are four poison using scout classes who need intelligence for poison damage. Would prefer Ranged critical but will take what I can get when it comes to ranged modifiers. EDIT: Stupid interface changed the color of my font to black. Had to make it legible.

madha

08-28-2009, 09:49 AM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote><div>Dark ElfInate:* Ultravision* +5% Speed* Reduces Max Falling Speed* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)* +100% Melee crit bonus, +100% Double attack, +50 Base CA, increases all back attacks by 100%, Increase poison trigger by 350%, increases poison damage by 100%USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote>Are yo</blockquote>This made me lol, i suer hope its a stab at a dev. =P

Cusashorn

08-28-2009, 09:49 AM

<cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><div>HumanInate:* All harvesting reduced by 0.5s* Reduces Awarenes of Enemies, Casting 3s Recast 3min* Reduces recast time on city call spells by 10minUSES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 1 ~ This seems to be tank skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* STA & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Ministration or +5 Disruption/Subjugation* Casting Speed of Beneficial OR Hostile Speed increased by 2%* +5 Defernce, +5 Parry, +5 Deflection, * +2 Deflection, +2 Shield EffectivenessNone Combat* Increased drink duration by 10%* Out of Combat power regen increased by 6 (this scales with level)* Reduced Falling Damage by 15%* Heal: 2% of max health, recast 1s casting 2s (out of combat only)Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Health by 3%Resists* Increased Physcial (mitigation)* Increased Arcane</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 4 ~ This seems to be a mixture of abilities (crusader, bard?)Attributes (These Scale)* STR & INT Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Defence, +5 Disruption* +1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE, +1 Deflection* +5 Crushing, +5 Slashing* +1% Casting Speed, +1 RDA, +1DANone Combat* Duration of Food +15%* Out of Combat power regeneration increased by 9 (Scales will level)* Increases Sprint Speed by 10, reduces initial power cost by 33%* +5% SpeedPools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Health by 3%Resists* Increased Physcial* Increased Elemental</div></blockquote></blockquote>Hmm.. as far as innate Human abilities, it doesn't look like anything has changed from what we have now.I'm not so sure if I like this version 1, 2, 3, 4 stuff though. While I don't see anything really bad about Version 4 (I assume that "* +1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE, +1 Deflection" means Melee Critical, among others. Please explain those,) I do think they could have given more choices.At any rate, I hope this puts a stop once and for all to the "one race is the best" argument that everyone's been *****ing about for a long time now.

Boli32

08-28-2009, 09:53 AM

I only put the dark elf stuff as a joke to my guild... I edited it a couple of min after I posted.... and I wrote it as "version 1, 2 ,3 etc" as I was not gonna write out the lot 20 times.. so if it says "uses version 1" means the rest of the racial abilities continue in the version 1 table.... as I said its very cookie cutter.+1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE, +1 Deflection=+1 Melee Crit+1 Ranged Crit+1 Heal Crit+1 Spell Crit+1 Shield Effectivness+1 Deflection

thog_zork

08-28-2009, 09:58 AM

give frogloks "Astounding Leap" (blink/deaggr) back !this ability was sooooo inline with the race ... quickly jumping away when dravong attention ! soo funnny!

Morghus

08-28-2009, 10:01 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>At any rate, I hope this puts a stop once and for all to the "one race is the best" argument that everyone's been *****ing about for a long time now.</blockquote>It won't. Some players will continue to be pretty much hosed for choosing a specific race, some even more so with the removal of a few abilities. My Sarnak Warlock for example gains absolutely nothing of value from his combat based racials, they might as well not even be there. Dark Elves and Arasai are largely unchanged from live and still have the most beneficial tools for being a scout or mage along with Erudites.

yadlajoi

08-28-2009, 10:03 AM

why are barbarian given stun immunity when it was a race defining ability.

Boli32

08-28-2009, 10:06 AM

b/c the only good raqcial barbarians got on live was "summon beer" <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Arathy

08-28-2009, 10:14 AM

And why on earth would you guys remove Pitiful Plea from the Ratonga list? It's been in game for the last 5 years..Seriously though, things like Infravision, Sonic Vision, Ultravision.. those shouldn't even count towards the 4 static racial traits. Having them in the list is like admitting you couldn't think of anything else to fit in. They are nothing but flavor, widely unused (although I still use sonic vision in Sol Eye), and in today's raiding game, having one activated will get your raid killed on fights like Zarrakon, Mynzak, Switchmaster, were most folks use the vision changes as a cue to check for curses/detrements.I'm most disappointed about the Pitiful Plea removal however. This is an ability that I use constantly. I strongly consider swapping it back in and removing something like Rob.

Korrupt

08-28-2009, 10:22 AM

Weren't races supposed to have access or a choice of 2 different "packages"? And arasai scouts not mages? Seriously?

Barx

08-28-2009, 10:27 AM

Wait... so those "Version 1" type things, each class only gets one of those sets?If that's the case, I'm very disappointed. Based on what Frizznik layed out, I was hoping each set would get enough to choose from to have 2 very distinct 'tracks'. Looking at version 3 (since I play a WE)...The vast majority of things I see are scout based. The only things REMOTELY priest like are... +5 ministration (Whoopde doo), 2% cast speed (ok, at least thats useful) and... 1% power 2% hp (Which isn't even priest unique). And wood elves have always been a mix of scout/priest in my mind.Color me disappointed if what's listed here is all the options available.

madha

08-28-2009, 10:32 AM

Geothe

08-28-2009, 10:35 AM

Wow.I sure do hope much dev time wasn't wasted coming up with these steaming piles of crap.

Morghus

08-28-2009, 10:50 AM

<cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><div>Frogloks</div><div>Inate:* Aquavision* Breath Underwater* Walk/Jump underwater* Out of Combat Health Regeneration of Caster by 4USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote></blockquote>

Lexorin

08-28-2009, 11:11 AM

So much for equalizing the races. Looks more like they reinforced the "Race A is best for Class B" issue. I mean, +5 defense isn't much, but for a tank that means you can ditch a defense item in favor of offense if you're capped on defense. So, in effect, gaining an innate +5 defense means I can get an additional + to crit attack or double attack.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 11:20 AM

Well, if they didn't make certain races better for certain classes, you wouldn't be interested in paying cash to switch your current race, would you? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Agramon

08-28-2009, 11:33 AM

What is the logic for giving Str and Wis to Scouts? This should be either Str and Agi, or Str and Int, or at least give us a choice of what stats increase, rather than the way it is.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 11:41 AM

There is no logic. That much is aparent. This looks to be another rush job with little foresight.. again.I'm sorry, I'm trying to have a positive outlook on this, but these racial changes are nothing but another nerf. The only good thing I can spin from these changes (centering on Ratonga) is that thanks to this change, I'll have 2 spots opening up on my hotbars.I, like most, was under the impression that we'd eiher be able to choose from the (for example) "Scout" package, or "Mage" package. But it appears we're simply locked into a predefined list of copy/paste abilities.I think more work needs to be done on these traits.. For the love of Jum Jum, remove those vision clickies from the defining abilities of races, not the decent ones.Oh, and I almost forgot..GIVE PITIFUL PLEA BACK TO RATS

Spakka

08-28-2009, 11:41 AM

Wow, gnomes suddenly got a major rework ? I always associated gnomes with intelligence and both the gnomes I have rolled have been casters, partly for the RP but also for the INT and the very useful racial de-aggro they used to have (especially on my warlock). If this is what goes live gnomes will lose the racial de-aggro and get put with group 3 which seems almost exclusively scout based and almost nothing for casters.I realise this is very much test status at the moment, but can I ask: anyone know if we getting at least 1 free racial respec per account ?

Katanalla

08-28-2009, 11:57 AM

Well Half elves screwed yet again. Dissapointment. do we atleast get free racial respecs?

Barx

08-28-2009, 12:01 PM

<cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well Half elves screwed yet again. Dissapointment. do we atleast get free racial respecs?</blockquote>I'd trade what half elves get for what wood elves get in a heartbeat.

Katanalla

08-28-2009, 12:05 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Katanallama@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well Half elves screwed yet again. Dissapointment. do we atleast get free racial respecs?</blockquote>I'd trade what half elves get for what wood elves get in a heartbeat.</blockquote>Me too buddy, me too.Half Elves are hated by both humans and elves, cause they're either 'impure' or cause they're related to elves. They're [Removed for Content] rogues from the start, am I wrong? so we get the aimlessly useless type 4 set, cool.When we get racial respecs, like 80% of player base will be dark elves lol.

Lexorin

08-28-2009, 12:18 PM

You'd think it'd be dynamic and just assign a pack based on your archtype. That'd be the easiest way to do it and probably cause the least amount of grief. Maybe that is how it works? Did the guy who made the list select random classes for each race when he made a character of each race? Unfortunately I can't check until late tonight...

Morghus

08-28-2009, 12:19 PM

Barx

08-28-2009, 12:21 PM

<cite>Lexorin wrote:</cite><blockquote>You'd think it'd be dynamic and just assign a pack based on your archtype. That'd be the easiest way to do it and probably cause the least amount of grief. Maybe that is how it works? Did the guy who made the list select random classes for each race when he made a character of each race? Unfortunately I can't check until late tonight...</blockquote>It doesn't work like that, that would defeat the purpose of them being racial traits and not some other kind of character trait.I don't know about the person that posted, though. If there really are other traits, then that'd be good... but then there's some odd mixes in the 'scout' type if thats what that poster was.

cr0wangel

08-28-2009, 12:25 PM

I'm highly disappointed by what I see. Getting the choice of a set will be more right and make everyone happy. If you play a character that his class/race combo doesn't match, you are screwed.

Barx

08-28-2009, 12:26 PM

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm highly disappointed by what I see. Getting the choice of a set will be more right and make everyone happy. If you play a character that his class/race combo doesn't match, you are screwed.</blockquote>Not really. You won't be min/max'd to the fullest extent, but I haven't seen too many abilities that are rediculously overpowered. Some of them definately seem a bit too much, but most just seem kind of a generic, "meh"

feldon30

08-28-2009, 12:31 PM

I'm working up all the Racials here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://fanfaire08.feldoncentral.com/2009/08/28/racial-traditions/" target="_blank">http://fanfaire08.feldoncentral.com...ial-traditions/</a> I'm about halfway done.They do seem VERY cut-and-paste (Fae and Aarsai have maybe 1 difference between the two) and losing a lot of things that were very nice like Pitiful Plea. I hope this gets tweaked between now and launch.There are a million minor tweaks in Gu53. Let's hope there's room for adjustment on Racials.

Sharakari

08-28-2009, 12:37 PM

<cite>cr0wangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm highly disappointed by what I see. Getting the choice of a set will be more right and make everyone happy. If you play a character that his class/race combo doesn't match, you are screwed.</blockquote>As a Kerra Fury, I would have hoped to have Version 3. Instead I get Version 4 which doesn't appear to help me out much as a healer. I too wish the "inate" abilities were all that was race specific and not pigeonhole races into classes because of the abilites forced on us by the "versions". Well, the good new is that hopefully being on test and everyone providing feedback, we might see this changed. I am an optimist!

Agramon

08-28-2009, 12:44 PM

<div>So, it looks like Arasai, Dark Elf, and Ratonga which are "Version 3" and Evil get Str and Int, but Good Races that are "Version 3" get Str and Wis. Why the change between alignment, in what stats are affected?</div>

Aeralik

08-28-2009, 12:47 PM

<cite>Anilyea@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the logic for giving Str and Wis to Scouts? This should be either Str and Agi, or Str and Int, or at least give us a choice of what stats increase, rather than the way it is.</blockquote>The scout pool always got strength. The mage pool got int, priests received wisdom and fighters stamina. The above user was really just guessing with the assignments. Gnome for example is scout/mage, wood elf is scout/priest, ogre is fighter/priest, humans are well rounded and erudite is a priest/mage combination.

Mordith

08-28-2009, 12:53 PM

What about *Aquavision*? Is that actually going to do something now? When I cast aquavision there is absolutely no difference in my underwater vision.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 12:53 PM

Defend these "new" traits you want. The last bit of flavor was just removed and now we're left with some bland gruel substance. Thankfully this is still only on Test, though following past SOE changes, it'll probably end up going live like this. I hope enough players speak their mind on how disappointing these traits are.Give me back my Pitiful Plea, you can keep that Rob skill which has been sitting unused in my knowledge book since the last racial revamp.

Deson

08-28-2009, 12:59 PM

Having looked at the list on my Erudite there, is no way a player would pick any tradeskill options unless the plan was to never adventure at all. The tradeskill choices cannot compete in any way shape or form with the adventuring benefits and should be completely separate.

Vendraen

08-28-2009, 01:00 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gnome for example is scout/mage, wood elf is scout/priest, ogre is fighter/priest, humans are well rounded and erudite is a priest/mage combination.</blockquote>What, then, is Ratonga? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Arathy

08-28-2009, 01:08 PM

Ratonga.. they made us scouts.This is complete garbage, I'm sorry there's no other way to put it. As a caster, I'm furious. Lore wise ratonga have been both scouts and mages. Hell, there's a whole colony of mage rats hanging out in the Ruins of Freeport. And yet suddenly we all get lumped into the scout catagory? I call complete Hogwash on this, Devs.At the very least, change us to Version 4, so both scouts make use of Strength, and casters make use of Intelligence.Don't alter 5 years of ratonga lore in one patch, and anger those of us who play casting rats.Also. Bring back Pitiful Plea.

Agramon

08-28-2009, 01:11 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anilyea@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the logic for giving Str and Wis to Scouts? This should be either Str and Agi, or Str and Int, or at least give us a choice of what stats increase, rather than the way it is.</blockquote>The scout pool always got strength. The mage pool got int, priests received wisdom and fighters stamina. The above user was really just guessing with the assignments. Gnome for example is scout/mage, wood elf is scout/priest, ogre is fighter/priest, humans are well rounded and erudite is a priest/mage combination.</blockquote>Aeralik, with all due respect. What is the reasoning for not allowing us to decide which two stats we want increased? Or which Racial Traditions we want?What this appears to be doing is force each race to have a class association and is destroying any uniqueness or choice.So, by saying that each race is scout/mage, figher/priest etc. We are not being given a choice of what race to play with each class.It may be minimal, but for example a scout class that receives Str. and Int. vs. a scout class that receives Str. and Wis. Poison damage is based on Int and these races will be more effective in that profession.What I stated before applies as well, it appears that Evil races make better Scouts than Good Races simply due to the stat bonuses. Why is the disparity there once again, when these were meant to bring balance to the races?Almost reminds of the the discussions of Good Gods vs. Evil Gods and the bonuses that are provided.Why not pool all the racial bonuses, give us base traditions for our race and let us choose what we want?Wtb Race Change ASAP.

Vendraen

08-28-2009, 01:13 PM

None of the bonuses are so "ZOMG UBER!!!!!!!!@@@" that you're going to be ineffective without them. We're talking +5's and such here. Not a gigantic big deal.

Rainmare

08-28-2009, 01:17 PM

Geothe

08-28-2009, 01:22 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anilyea@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the logic for giving Str and Wis to Scouts? This should be either Str and Agi, or Str and Int, or at least give us a choice of what stats increase, rather than the way it is.</blockquote>The scout pool always got strength. The mage pool got int, priests received wisdom and fighters stamina. The above user was really just guessing with the assignments. Gnome for example is scout/mage, wood elf is scout/priest, ogre is fighter/priest, humans are well rounded and erudite is a priest/mage combination.</blockquote>That is complete junk.What ever happened to "any race, any class"You are locking races even more down specific class lines, so much for balancing anything.Your "packages" are good in theory, but they way you have applied them is illogical.Keep the "packages" but let the PLAYER choose which of the 4 packages they would like for each toon.You'll have happy players that way, as you are giving them an actual choice isn't of further forcing them.In addition, you should re-include a "Pitiful Plea" type ability in each package. Several races have such deagro/hate drops right now and they are EXTREMELY valuable. Removing those is a huge nerf. Just toss them back into each package, and let the player choose which package they would like to make use of with each toon, and this racial abilities change wont be as crappy as it is now.

Akaran2

08-28-2009, 01:25 PM

Something that gravely concerns me on this (aside from the fact that my -defiler ratonga wife- is going to want blood) is that lore wise, Dark Elves have been and I thought always would be masters of necrotic arts, not to mention Shadowknights of the highest callibur. That would be why I have a DE Sk as an alt, and a DE Necromancer as my main. Unfortunately, the new racial specs don't look helpful to that bit of lore.. the "go to groupie every 12hrs" thing is great, but there's only one caster boost in the other list. Is this intended?

Raidyen

08-28-2009, 01:26 PM

Ok so i am looking over the innate racial abilities, and one thing is glaringly obvious. The massive redundency of scout abilities.SCOUT ABILITIES BEING COPIEDTrackingDisarmPickpocketSlowfallReduce falling dmgALL OTHER ABILITIES BEING COPIEDSpeed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots)Waterbreathing (preists, totems)Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Call of the Tinkerer (item)So not only are scout abilities being distributed to other classes, but those of us that are scouts are getting little to no benefit with these racial changes, since we already have these abilties. THE POINT of racial abilties is to give some advantage to that races favored class, not discourage it. I mean a barbarian, Ogre, or Troll would make the best scouts right now since they will actually get new useful abilties. The races that are known as scouts, woodelves, halflings, etc are just getting abilties they already have, not benefits to them. VERY VERY BAD design.And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on.

JenarieII

08-28-2009, 01:32 PM

I may have missed it somewhere but was it ever answered if we get a free race change when this goes live? I read free respec for everyone but didn't see anythign about race change.As a fae templar, I am going to have a hard time using the "scout" abilities. And I'm losing the 5% run speed that I've had since I created the character. In general, I'm disapointed. Having "sets" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. There should be choices for any class in each race. Having it lean more to certain type classes is ok but making some races totally useless for some classes isn't what this game was supposed to be about.

RafaelSmith

08-28-2009, 01:32 PM

"Any class any race" my azz

Arathy

08-28-2009, 01:34 PM

<cite>Deekin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on.</blockquote>And they wonder why we're disappointed. This is typical, copy/paste, no thought put into it, stuff.The ideas you just gave are better than what is currently on test, and I'm sure it took you about 1 min. to think up those two abilities.

and0ra77

08-28-2009, 01:39 PM

Why only two mage races with spell mod? Going to have alot of evil erudites. Thought you were trying to avoid such a thing. Please add spell mod to a evil race like arasai or dark elf.

Wilde_Night

08-28-2009, 01:39 PM

<cite>Deekin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok so i am looking over the innate racial abilities, and one thing is glaringly obvious. The massive redundency of scout abilities.SCOUT ABILITIES BEING COPIEDTrackingDisarmPickpocketSlowfallReduce falling dmgALL OTHER ABILITIES BEING COPIEDSpeed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots)Waterbreathing (preists, totems)Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Call of the Tinkerer (item)So not only are scout abilities being distributed to other classes, but those of us that are scouts are getting little to no benefit with these racial changes, since we already have these abilties. THE POINT of racial abilties is to give some advantage to that races favored class, not discourage it. I mean a barbarian, Ogre, or Troll would make the best scouts right now since they will actually get new useful abilties. The races that are known as scouts, woodelves, halflings, etc are just getting abilties they already have, not benefits to them. VERY VERY BAD design.And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on.</blockquote>Speed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots) Kerra, Sarnak and the Fae had this ability previous.Waterbreathing (preists, totems) Frogloks had this ability previous.Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions) Ogres had this ability previous.Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions) Trolls had this ability previous.Things to get reduced falling damage, like cloaks, also already exist in the game along with CoH items and slowfall. I have yet to log into Test to see what all the commotion is about, but a lot of it sounds like the usual anti-change brigade.

Silerua

08-28-2009, 01:40 PM

Huh...Sorry if someone already pointed this out. I'm a Dark Elf Necromancer, so when I read that I was gonna be using the "scout" package, I was a little sad, 'cause I ain't a scout. I logged onto test copy Aure and she seems to have access to both scout and mage archetype picks. So it looks like Dark Elves are considered a scout/mage race *nodnod*

Aeralik

08-28-2009, 01:41 PM

<cite>Arathyen@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ratonga.. they made us scouts.This is complete garbage, I'm sorry there's no other way to put it. As a caster, I'm furious. Lore wise ratonga have been both scouts and mages. Hell, there's a whole colony of mage rats hanging out in the Ruins of Freeport. And yet suddenly we all get lumped into the scout catagory? I call complete Hogwash on this, Devs.At the very least, change us to Version 4, so both scouts make use of Strength, and casters make use of Intelligence.Don't alter 5 years of ratonga lore in one patch, and anger those of us who play casting rats. </blockquote>Ratonga are scout/mage. Like I said the one listing in this thread was not very accurate. Ratonga get an int bonus, hostile casting speed bonus, disruption skill bonus, and power pool bonus as well which are all very mage oriented abilities. Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.

JenarieII

08-28-2009, 01:44 PM

If the list posted isn't complet/accurate, would it be possible for a dev or moderator to post the complete list please?Would love to opportunity to provide better feedback based on complete information.

Barx

08-28-2009, 01:47 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anilyea@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the logic for giving Str and Wis to Scouts? This should be either Str and Agi, or Str and Int, or at least give us a choice of what stats increase, rather than the way it is.</blockquote>The scout pool always got strength. The mage pool got int, priests received wisdom and fighters stamina. The above user was really just guessing with the assignments. Gnome for example is scout/mage, wood elf is scout/priest, ogre is fighter/priest, humans are well rounded and erudite is a priest/mage combination.</blockquote>I assumed that was the case for wood elves... but honestly, what was delivered isn't living up to my understanding of what Frizznik posted. I think we were all expecting enough variety that you'd put pretty much all your points into those for you class.In that regard I'm rather disappointed with the scout/priest pack. I see a lot more scout in that pack than I do priest. First and foremost, that ministration I don't even count as being priest it provides so little bonus from everything I've seen. At least the weapon skills provide a small bonus, what does ministration do -- reduce our power cost? I don't know why, but priests do not have issues with power unless the fight is designed so that they are supposed to. We always end up with + power stuff when we'd much rather have hp for survivability. Why do all the other packs get +3% power in one and +3% hp in the other, yet the priest/scout one gets +3% power and +1% power w/ +2% hp?As it is now, I see 5 selectable wood elf abilities that I consider "useful" and that's counting the 2 resists. A few others that are priest-oriented but not useful in my opinion.And don't get me started on resists having mitigation in some packs and not others. Mitigation is NOT a regular resist type and should not be just mixed in as such.

Fenix

08-28-2009, 01:51 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm working up all the Racials here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://fanfaire08.feldoncentral.com/2009/08/28/racial-traditions/" target="_blank">http://fanfaire08.feldoncentral.com...ial-traditions/</a> </blockquote>Fae: +Str, +Wis+Haste on beneficial spellArasai: +Str, +Int+Haste on damaging spellOk so let me get this straight, and correct me if I’m wrong, but after GU53 , not only my evil healer will have useless deity but on top of that I will be stuck with bad racial for a Defiler?

Maroger

08-28-2009, 01:52 PM

DARK ELFIt is not right to gives us racial traits that forces you to be grouped to use it. The teleport to group/friend in zone is a wasted skill if you are soloer.Please change it so that a soloer can use it to teleport to a safe location within the zone.You have given no consideration to soloers with this change -- I would rather have my old traits back than get a useless one.This is no different than CALL OF THE TINKERER. Why give us something that can be made. - NOT GOOD.

Morghus

08-28-2009, 01:52 PM

The number one thing that upsets me is that the majority of the things my particular class/race combo can pick is completely worthless to my class. On live I have maybe 1 or 2 saving graves but as it is on test I could literally choose none of my racial abilities and it wouldnt make much if any difference, whereas somebody with a more favored class/race combo can get a bonus which however large or small is still in the end a bonus.

xeyda

08-28-2009, 01:57 PM

I know these 'bonuses' are slight, and should not affect anyone's race choice when making a character, but they will. Frankly, most of these racial traits are complete crap. Worthless, useless, easily skirted around by items, etc.I am really disappointed, even a bit upset, that this 'racial preference for class' is solidifying so much. Part of the fun of the game for some folks (myself included) is making a character that pushes at the pre-defined boundries associated with race. An Ogre dirge, for example. Arasai ranger.I am -surprised-, as it was mentioned earlier by someone, that the Dark Elves seem to have lost their necromatic aspect. Talk about thieving a lot of pre-established lore from the race.

Noaani

08-28-2009, 01:59 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>"Any class any race" my azz</blockquote>They never said every race would be equally suited to every class, they said it would be possible to play any race as any class.In fact, even before the game launched they said some races would be better than others at some classes.

Vendraen

08-28-2009, 01:59 PM

<cite>xeyda wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am really disappointed, even a bit upset, that this 'racial preference for class' is solidifying so much. Part of the fun of the game for some folks (myself included) is making a character that pushes at the pre-defined boundries associated with race. An Ogre dirge, for example. Arasai ranger.</blockquote>You can still do that, and likely will. As you yourself said, the bonuses don't matter much anyway - so make what you want!

Vendraen

08-28-2009, 02:03 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>They never said every race would be equally suited to every class, they said it would be possible to play any race as any class.In fact, even before the game launched they said some races would be better than others at some classes.</blockquote>Exactly.

Raidyen

08-28-2009, 02:07 PM

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deekin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok so i am looking over the innate racial abilities, and one thing is glaringly obvious. The massive redundency of scout abilities.SCOUT ABILITIES BEING COPIEDTrackingDisarmPickpocketSlowfallReduce falling dmgALL OTHER ABILITIES BEING COPIEDSpeed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots)Waterbreathing (preists, totems)Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Call of the Tinkerer (item)So not only are scout abilities being distributed to other classes, but those of us that are scouts are getting little to no benefit with these racial changes, since we already have these abilties. THE POINT of racial abilties is to give some advantage to that races favored class, not discourage it. I mean a barbarian, Ogre, or Troll would make the best scouts right now since they will actually get new useful abilties. The races that are known as scouts, woodelves, halflings, etc are just getting abilties they already have, not benefits to them. VERY VERY BAD design.And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on.</blockquote>Speed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots) Kerra, Sarnak and the Fae had this ability previous.Waterbreathing (preists, totems) Frogloks had this ability previous.Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions) Ogres had this ability previous.Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions) Trolls had this ability previous.Things to get reduced falling damage, like cloaks, also already exist in the game along with CoH items and slowfall. I have yet to log into Test to see what all the commotion is about, but a lot of it sounds like the usual anti-change brigade.</blockquote>Um i cant figure out if your agreeing or disagree with me, but your made my point eitherway. The old race abilties didnt really bother me, the slow fall thing was fine imo since that already has been duplicated through items. Personally i really dont care what they do to change it because my racail abilities couldnt have gotten any worse. It just bothers me when they spend Dev time and nothing is improved for the work. Make the game more fun, give us more choices, Not less.

Sarriss

08-28-2009, 02:28 PM

As much as I don't like it, I gotta defend Aeralik, I logged in my Iksar trobbie to find that his list looked nothing like the one posted on the forms (mine seems more caster oriented than scout, but that's a good thing for a trobbie, tho not perfect, it'll get me by)One thing I would like to complain about is the "Slow metabolism" ability (the one that increases the duration of tradeskill potions) if working as read will backfire because of the way that the mana/health over time potion works (the durations is extended, but the number of ticks is not, so the game puts more time between the ticks, thus taking longer for you to get the desired effect.Not exactly happy about non-scouts getting track/safefall/other class ability, but oh well..Let me correct that, looks more like I got a split between mage and tank..

x82nd77

08-28-2009, 02:35 PM

I find this all a mixed bag.... some positives some negatives. But I have been here since launch and know that these changes are temporary. If you don't like what they are doing give them around a year and they will do yet another race revamp, throwing out everything you are used to and putting in a whole new bunch of skills for no real reason. This is going to be the... mmm... third one I think? Honestly between all the complete revamps that SOE does it is hard to keep track of when they did what. For now I will be rerolling my quester as a woodelf for the tracking, but sadly I know that there will come the day that the whole reason I rolled a woodelf (whatever class) will be for nothing when they remove tracking. Sorry if this sounds all negative but I have been through so many complete revamps it gets tiring.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 02:40 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arathyen@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ratonga.. they made us scouts.This is complete garbage, I'm sorry there's no other way to put it. As a caster, I'm furious. Lore wise ratonga have been both scouts and mages. Hell, there's a whole colony of mage rats hanging out in the Ruins of Freeport. And yet suddenly we all get lumped into the scout catagory? I call complete Hogwash on this, Devs.At the very least, change us to Version 4, so both scouts make use of Strength, and casters make use of Intelligence.Don't alter 5 years of ratonga lore in one patch, and anger those of us who play casting rats. </blockquote>Ratonga are scout/mage. Like I said the one listing in this thread was not very accurate. Ratonga get an int bonus, hostile casting speed bonus, disruption skill bonus, and power pool bonus as well which are all very mage oriented abilities. Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.</blockquote>Thank you for clarifying that Aeralik.Now.. who do I have to pay to get my Pitiful Plea back? Losing that ability hurts bad. I can live without Poisonous Bite, even though I use it every time it's available. Plea on the other hand I would consider a race defining ability and in my opinion is unfair (while ogres are still holding on to their Stun Immunity). Please strongly reconsider your removal of this ability.

Frizznik

08-28-2009, 02:48 PM

<blockquote>Thank you for clarifying that Aeralik.Now.. who do I have to pay to get my Pitiful Plea back? Losing that ability hurts bad. I can live without Poisonous Bite, even though I use it every time it's available. Plea on the other hand I would consider a race defining ability and in my opinion is unfair (while ogres are still holding on to their Stun Immunity). Please strongly reconsider your removal of this ability.PITIFUL PLEA IN '09 !</blockquote>The irony is killing me.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Geothe

08-28-2009, 02:52 PM

<cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Thank you for clarifying that Aeralik.Now.. who do I have to pay to get my Pitiful Plea back? Losing that ability hurts bad. I can live without Poisonous Bite, even though I use it every time it's available. Plea on the other hand I would consider a race defining ability and in my opinion is unfair (while ogres are still holding on to their Stun Immunity). Please strongly reconsider your removal of this ability.PITIFUL PLEA IN '09 !</blockquote>The irony is killing me.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And ill-thought out "revamps" are killing your player base.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 02:53 PM

<cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote>The irony is killing me.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>It's certainly not lost on me either. Shall I pay in Station Cash, or will you accept cheese?

Undorett

08-28-2009, 03:00 PM

I must say, I would really like my racial CA back =(

Morghus

08-28-2009, 03:01 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>Thank you for clarifying that Aeralik.Now.. who do I have to pay to get my Pitiful Plea back? Losing that ability hurts bad. I can live without Poisonous Bite, even though I use it every time it's available. Plea on the other hand I would consider a race defining ability and in my opinion is unfair (while ogres are still holding on to their Stun Immunity). Please strongly reconsider your removal of this ability.PITIFUL PLEA IN '09 !</blockquote>The irony is killing me.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And ill-thought out "revamps" are killing your player base.</blockquote>Seriously. Something is wrong if theoretically being able to have ALL your racial traits active is the same as not having them at all due to absolutely none of them being relevant to your class in even 1 way.

Bright_Morn

08-28-2009, 03:06 PM

I have not been able to log into test yet to see these changes for myself, however these are my thoughts so far. Looks to me that High Elf and Erudite get the short end of the stick for Pool choices (version 2). With no HP choice with the new selection it looks as if my Wizard will loose about 200-400hp. Also the power regen is a near pointless stat due to the size of power pools and the ease that the cap of incombat power regen is reached, unless this also increases the cap by 5.

Huntress Jellica

08-28-2009, 03:10 PM

<blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite>Deekin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>This. [Removed for Content], giving dwarves a speed boost? Giving them the same ability to repair armor that gnomes received makes perfect sense (perhaps moreso than it does for gnomes, who are known for tinkering and blowing things up, NOT fixing them), but runspeed? Yeah... no.

Lexorin

08-28-2009, 03:28 PM

What? No evil racial trackers? Hell, I'd trade pitiful plea for tracking and ratonga seem like the perfect match for it anyway.Also, ditch sonic vision, since when do rats have echo-location?

Dirty Jack Rackham

08-28-2009, 03:33 PM

<cite>Lexorin wrote:</cite><blockquote>What? No evil racial trackers? Hell, I'd trade pitiful plea for tracking and ratonga seem like the perfect match for it anyway.Also, ditch sonic vision, since when do rats have echo-location?</blockquote>A bat is a rat with wings <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Fendaria

08-28-2009, 03:34 PM

The 'increase heal and spell damage by 1.2 (per tier)' racial, what is this at lv 80? Is it a factor or a straight up amount?Fendaria

Hogatha

08-28-2009, 03:43 PM

After reading through all of this and seeing what lies ahead for each race, what each is losing or gaining, I think each character should be allowed a FREE race respec, not just the traits. I am quite devastated to see that my troll is losing brutal bashings (I use this a lot) and the other offensive abilities all being canned. Just makes no sense. I like the traits that my characters have now, as they are. Not that it matters......

Orba

08-28-2009, 03:48 PM

So Trolls have lost their water breathing ability (Swamp Breath)?

Bright_Morn

08-28-2009, 03:49 PM

<cite>Orba wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Trolls have lost their water breathing ability (Swamp Breath)?</blockquote>And Erudites gained it.... no idea why that makes any sense.

Geothe

08-28-2009, 03:52 PM

<cite>Taliesan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Orba wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Trolls have lost their water breathing ability (Swamp Breath)?</blockquote>And Erudites gained it.... no idea why that makes any sense.</blockquote>its called assigning abilites in a completely random fashion.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 04:09 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taliesan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Orba wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Trolls have lost their water breathing ability (Swamp Breath)?</blockquote>And Erudites gained it.... no idea why that makes any sense.</blockquote>its called assigning abilites in a completely random fashion.</blockquote>This. I saw that on the list and thought the same thing. Someone is taking the copy/paste a bit too far.

Landiin

08-28-2009, 04:17 PM

This the part that held up the patch?

GrunEQ

08-28-2009, 04:18 PM

<cite>JenarieII wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the list posted isn't complet/accurate, would it be possible for a dev or moderator to post the complete list please?Would love to opportunity to provide better feedback based on complete information.</blockquote>QFE

Aule

08-28-2009, 04:26 PM

What a steaming pile of crap. Why bother even having racial traditions if you're going to suck them up this much and make them completely bland?

Raidyen

08-28-2009, 04:40 PM

<cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JenarieII wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the list posted isn't complet/accurate, would it be possible for a dev or moderator to post the complete list please?Would love to opportunity to provide better feedback based on complete information.</blockquote>QFE</blockquote>QFE x2

Bright_Morn

08-28-2009, 04:44 PM

If both Erudite and High Elf get slow fall as a racial ability and are the only races that have the Version 2 choice. Why is one of the selections in Version 2 a choice to have 15% reduction in falling damage?

Snosael

08-28-2009, 04:51 PM

<cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello! My name is Frizznik and I am a gnome. Some of you may remember me from a few years ago when I worked on EverQuest and EverQuest II. I have recently returned to the team and have been very busy! One of the first things I have been working on is racial trait balance. We have evaluated racial growth gained from traits and have made some changes in an effort to balance them. We wanted to share the details with you.GoalsWe wanted races to be more flexible in what types of combat and tradeskill classes they can choose.We wanted to better balance races against each other.We wanted some race/class combos to be more interesting.We wanted to make it easier to understand the racial abilities when creating a character.We wanted to make race choice a bit more cosmetic, since all races were equally good at appropriate classes.PackagesThis balance was accomplished by creating trait packages. Each package has eight traits with the class archetypes in mind: Scouts, Fighters, Mages, and Priests. Each race receives two of the packages and can chose from the traits inside either of those packages. There is also a Well Rounded and a Priest/Mage combo package. These two combo packages have sixteen traits and are tailored differently. Well Rounded spans all archetypes and the Priest/Mage package shares strengths of both the priest and mage packs with some additional flavored bonuses.The eight traits that each archetype package contains are:Statistic GainResistance GainHealth or Power BoostNon-Combat Boost 1Non-Combat Boost 2Combat BonusTradeskill BonusSkill BonusInnatesAfter we applied the trait packages we moved some of the important racial traits into inntate traits. For example, Human's Diplomacy and Ogre's Impenetrable Will are still there, but are now free innates that you start with.We have also added some new traits, things such as:Teleport to friend in the zone, long reuse.Tracking opened up to races that it fit with.Repair your armor on a long reuse.Disarm trap for races with knowledge of complicated systems.TradeskillsWe have diversified race access to different tradeskills. A third tradeskill trait has been added to each race to help open up tradeskill jobs. Each package also contains an option to increase base tradeskill combines. In total, five options for tradeskills are possible. The five are the two existing choices, the new class specific choice, and the two new general choices from the archetype packages. Let's look at Ogre's as an example:Oggokian Trade: Metalworking Power Reduction (Existing Choice)Rallosian Readiness: Metal Shaping Skill (Existing Choice)Mooshga's Tutelage: Provisioning Power Reduction (New Racial Choice)Fortune of the Feerrott: Increase progress by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)Oggokian Durability: Increase durability by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)StatisticsStatistic traits will now scale to your level.Offensive BuffsOffensive buffs have been removed. We did this to help balance races better against each other. Having nineteen options should allow you to grow your character in new ways that let you come out more powerful overall.When this reaches live all character development choices will be reset to allow you to choose from the new traits. Thanks for your patience and understanding with this rework!</blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.From the scout perspective, these changes are only worsening the existing disparities between races! Dark elves and ratongas being overpowered were, I thought, the reason for these rebalancing changes. Instead, they get to keep 25% poison triggers, 15% steath speed, +double attack /RDA bonuses, +5 runspeed. While as a half elf I still dont get any of that but lose +5 parry, +5 runspeed, and 2 combat related abilities (deaggro and an attack).If each race is getting 2 packages to choose from, does that mean dark elves and ratonga are going to be able to stack more +5 runspeeds? up to 10 or 15?

Barx

08-28-2009, 04:55 PM

<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello! My name is Frizznik and I am a gnome. Some of you may remember me from a few years ago when I worked on EverQuest and EverQuest II. I have recently returned to the team and have been very busy! One of the first things I have been working on is racial trait balance. We have evaluated racial growth gained from traits and have made some changes in an effort to balance them. We wanted to share the details with you.GoalsWe wanted races to be more flexible in what types of combat and tradeskill classes they can choose.We wanted to better balance races against each other.We wanted some race/class combos to be more interesting.We wanted to make it easier to understand the racial abilities when creating a character.We wanted to make race choice a bit more cosmetic, since all races were equally good at appropriate classes.PackagesThis balance was accomplished by creating trait packages. Each package has eight traits with the class archetypes in mind: Scouts, Fighters, Mages, and Priests. Each race receives two of the packages and can chose from the traits inside either of those packages. There is also a Well Rounded and a Priest/Mage combo package. These two combo packages have sixteen traits and are tailored differently. Well Rounded spans all archetypes and the Priest/Mage package shares strengths of both the priest and mage packs with some additional flavored bonuses.The eight traits that each archetype package contains are:Statistic GainResistance GainHealth or Power BoostNon-Combat Boost 1Non-Combat Boost 2Combat BonusTradeskill BonusSkill BonusInnatesAfter we applied the trait packages we moved some of the important racial traits into inntate traits. For example, Human's Diplomacy and Ogre's Impenetrable Will are still there, but are now free innates that you start with.We have also added some new traits, things such as:Teleport to friend in the zone, long reuse.Tracking opened up to races that it fit with.Repair your armor on a long reuse.Disarm trap for races with knowledge of complicated systems.TradeskillsWe have diversified race access to different tradeskills. A third tradeskill trait has been added to each race to help open up tradeskill jobs. Each package also contains an option to increase base tradeskill combines. In total, five options for tradeskills are possible. The five are the two existing choices, the new class specific choice, and the two new general choices from the archetype packages. Let's look at Ogre's as an example:Oggokian Trade: Metalworking Power Reduction (Existing Choice)Rallosian Readiness: Metal Shaping Skill (Existing Choice)Mooshga's Tutelage: Provisioning Power Reduction (New Racial Choice)Fortune of the Feerrott: Increase progress by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)Oggokian Durability: Increase durability by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)StatisticsStatistic traits will now scale to your level.Offensive BuffsOffensive buffs have been removed. We did this to help balance races better against each other. Having nineteen options should allow you to grow your character in new ways that let you come out more powerful overall.When this reaches live all character development choices will be reset to allow you to choose from the new traits. Thanks for your patience and understanding with this rework!</blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.From the scout perspective, these changes are only worsening the existing disparities between races! Dark elves and ratongas being overpowered were, I thought, the reason for these rebalancing changes. Instead, they get to keep 25% poison triggers, 15% steath speed, +double attack /RDA bonuses, +5 runspeed. While as a half elf I still dont get any of that but lose +5 parry, +5 runspeed, and 2 combat related abilities (deaggro and an attack).If each race is getting 2 packages to choose from, does that mean dark elves and ratonga are going to be able to stack more +5 runspeeds? up to 10 or 15?</blockquote>The as-posted sets all are the two-packages.Take a look at the third listed package, (the one Wood Elves get). There seems to be exactly a mix of scout and priest stuff... it's just some of it is relatively poor.

Aeralik

08-28-2009, 05:11 PM

<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.</blockquote>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, IksarPriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite

Orba

08-28-2009, 05:13 PM

<cite>Arathyen@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taliesan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Orba wrote:</cite><blockquote>So Trolls have lost their water breathing ability (Swamp Breath)?</blockquote>And Erudites gained it.... no idea why that makes any sense.</blockquote>its called assigning abilites in a completely random fashion.</blockquote>This. I saw that on the list and thought the same thing. Someone is taking the copy/paste a bit too far.</blockquote>Actually Erudites get an ability called "Experimental Air Pocket" which has as an effect "allows caster to breath water" but the description talks about increased out of combat power regen. It also has the problem of not working, it doesn't let you breath underwater.For Trolls they should dump Ultravision and give them back Swampbreath, I've never seen any point to sonic vision, ultravision etc. The only effect they have is to make it impossible to see whats going on. The only one that has any use is auravision, and thats only if you are a coercer looking to find a mage mob among a group is similarly named mobs.

Snosael

08-28-2009, 05:14 PM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Frizznik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hello! My name is Frizznik and I am a gnome. Some of you may remember me from a few years ago when I worked on EverQuest and EverQuest II. I have recently returned to the team and have been very busy! One of the first things I have been working on is racial trait balance. We have evaluated racial growth gained from traits and have made some changes in an effort to balance them. We wanted to share the details with you.GoalsWe wanted races to be more flexible in what types of combat and tradeskill classes they can choose.We wanted to better balance races against each other.We wanted some race/class combos to be more interesting.We wanted to make it easier to understand the racial abilities when creating a character.We wanted to make race choice a bit more cosmetic, since all races were equally good at appropriate classes.PackagesThis balance was accomplished by creating trait packages. Each package has eight traits with the class archetypes in mind: Scouts, Fighters, Mages, and Priests. Each race receives two of the packages and can chose from the traits inside either of those packages. There is also a Well Rounded and a Priest/Mage combo package. These two combo packages have sixteen traits and are tailored differently. Well Rounded spans all archetypes and the Priest/Mage package shares strengths of both the priest and mage packs with some additional flavored bonuses.The eight traits that each archetype package contains are:Statistic GainResistance GainHealth or Power BoostNon-Combat Boost 1Non-Combat Boost 2Combat BonusTradeskill BonusSkill BonusInnatesAfter we applied the trait packages we moved some of the important racial traits into inntate traits. For example, Human's Diplomacy and Ogre's Impenetrable Will are still there, but are now free innates that you start with.We have also added some new traits, things such as:Teleport to friend in the zone, long reuse.Tracking opened up to races that it fit with.Repair your armor on a long reuse.Disarm trap for races with knowledge of complicated systems.TradeskillsWe have diversified race access to different tradeskills. A third tradeskill trait has been added to each race to help open up tradeskill jobs. Each package also contains an option to increase base tradeskill combines. In total, five options for tradeskills are possible. The five are the two existing choices, the new class specific choice, and the two new general choices from the archetype packages. Let's look at Ogre's as an example:Oggokian Trade: Metalworking Power Reduction (Existing Choice)Rallosian Readiness: Metal Shaping Skill (Existing Choice)Mooshga's Tutelage: Provisioning Power Reduction (New Racial Choice)Fortune of the Feerrott: Increase progress by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)Oggokian Durability: Increase durability by 2% on all rounds (New Package Choice)StatisticsStatistic traits will now scale to your level.Offensive BuffsOffensive buffs have been removed. We did this to help balance races better against each other. Having nineteen options should allow you to grow your character in new ways that let you come out more powerful overall.When this reaches live all character development choices will be reset to allow you to choose from the new traits. Thanks for your patience and understanding with this rework!</blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.From the scout perspective, these changes are only worsening the existing disparities between races! Dark elves and ratongas being overpowered were, I thought, the reason for these rebalancing changes. Instead, they get to keep 25% poison triggers, 15% steath speed, +double attack /RDA bonuses, +5 runspeed. While as a half elf I still dont get any of that but lose +5 parry, +5 runspeed, and 2 combat related abilities (deaggro and an attack).If each race is getting 2 packages to choose from, does that mean dark elves and ratonga are going to be able to stack more +5 runspeeds? up to 10 or 15?</blockquote>The as-posted sets all are the two-packages.Take a look at the third listed package, (the one Wood Elves get). There seems to be exactly a mix of scout and priest stuff... it's just some of it is relatively poor.</blockquote>Im still not seeing how the numbers or traits, packages, etc. all add up. I still have 5hrs on downloading on the test server tho so maybe then it will make sence.You are very right tho if these are the combined packages. They are very poor. Overall I can not see how this balances the racial abilities at all. Quite the opposite in fact. All I see is the uber scout races staying just as uber (DEs, rats) while the others get major nerfs =(

GrunEQ

08-28-2009, 05:17 PM

From your list it looks like 5 races only get 1 package. Shouldn't Erudites, High Elves, Half Elves, Human and Kerra get more choices?And as for all those "vision" abilities, they are mostly trash. Would like to have something useful instead.

Geothe

08-28-2009, 05:26 PM

Silerua

08-28-2009, 05:29 PM

What Aeralik posted was what I was seeing. Arasai and Fae got different combat/noncombat bonuses that made them Mage/Scout and Priest/Scout, respectively. I didn't finish writing up the list of racial things because I kind of got sidetracked and bored and assumed someone else was doing it and was prolly doing it much better than I. *nodnod*[EDIT] @GrunEQ - If you're referring to Aeralik's post then those races did get choices. Erudites (and High Elves it seems, I didn't get that far) got Priest and Mage options that were different from the Priest options the Fighter/Priest package received and different Mage options than the Mage/Scout package received. They got the exact same number of choices to pick from.

Aeralik

08-28-2009, 05:30 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>You make this claim,Yet what we see is nothing like this what so ever.For instance, you Say Arasai are scout/mage while Fae are Scout/Priest.Yet their packages are exactly the same.</blockquote>Have you actually logged in and looked at a fae or arasai? Priest and Mage are very similar in nature but they do have differences.

Geothe

08-28-2009, 05:34 PM

Sydares

08-28-2009, 05:38 PM

Oxie

08-28-2009, 05:41 PM

If lore makes any case for debate...as well as the booklet that came with the game at release...half elves were the ONLY race that specialized in being scouts. Go on, go dig out the booklet and look at page 12...traditional role: SCOUT.Halflings and wood elves have scout, priest.Humans have all 4.Kerra have scout, fighter, priest.Ratonga have scout, mage.Frogloks are not listed in the booklet, btw.So why are half elves getting shuffled into option 4? For those of us who went the traditional route of a half elf rogue, thanks for nothing. Half elves should be THE BEST option for a scout.What jerks my chain more any anything is: Increases trigger count of poisons by 25%. As a raiding swashbuckler, this is something that I'd love to have and would make good use of. Thanks for nothing...again.

Fenix

08-28-2009, 05:42 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite>You make this claim,Yet what we see is nothing like this what so ever.For instance, you Say Arasai are scout/mage while Fae are Scout/Priest.Yet their packages are exactly the same.</blockquote>They are not the SameFae +WIS/+STRHaste on Beneficial spell by 2%Bonus to MinistrationArasai +INT/+STRHaste on hostile spell 2%Bonus to Subjugation/Disruption After Gu 53 the best evil races for a priest are: Troll,Ogre and Sarnak. That make absolutely no sense in my book , but i guess we are stuck with those change:S

Korrupt

08-28-2009, 05:43 PM

Why is there a good and neutral race with the mage/priest specialty, and no evil? IMO arasai should be added to that list because it's the evil race that would fit. DE and ratonga's have scouts, and the others are tanks, arasai should be the evil counterpart to HE and erudite.

Dirty Jack Rackham

08-28-2009, 05:44 PM

<cite>Orba wrote:</cite><blockquote>For Trolls they should dump Ultravision and give them back Swampbreath, I've never seen any point to sonic vision, ultravision etc. The only effect they have is to make it impossible to see whats going on. The only one that has any use is auravision, and thats only if you are a coercer looking to find a mage mob among a group is similarly named mobs.</blockquote>I never carry a torch and find that Ultravision and Sonicvision work just fine for me in low light areas. They also have the added benefit of negating the double, triple, quadruple vision effects of drinking too much. Aura vision is interesting at best but of little functional use other than being able to tell priests from mages. I don't really find Infravision to be of much use at all but I'm sure somebody uses it. Maybe.

Rijacki

08-28-2009, 05:47 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>You make this claim,Yet what we see is nothing like this what so ever.For instance, you Say Arasai are scout/mage while Fae are Scout/Priest.Yet their packages are exactly the same.</blockquote>Have you actually logged in and looked at a fae or arasai? Priest and Mage are very similar in nature but they do have differences.</blockquote>Ah my bad.They are so bland they look nearly exactly the same."vanilla ice cream vs french vanilla ice cream"exciting.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Strip away the rocky road, the blueberry ripple, the mocha, and all the other flavours because there were complaints about mocha being so much better than rocky road and what are you left with? Yup, several variations of vanilla.When players say they don't want race to matter, what they mean is that they don't want some other character's race to matter to that character but only their own character's race to matter and give them an extra special edge.

Arathy

08-28-2009, 05:52 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>You make this claim,Yet what we see is nothing like this what so ever.For instance, you Say Arasai are scout/mage while Fae are Scout/Priest.Yet their packages are exactly the same.</blockquote>Have you actually logged in and looked at a fae or arasai? Priest and Mage are very similar in nature but they do have differences.</blockquote>Therein lies the problem. They are so "very similar" that there is virually no difference. And yes, I have logged in to look myself.I'd be willing to bet the majority here were expecting some exciting changes coming with a whole new racial revamp, and what we got was not exciting at all. In the case of Ratonga, we received a nerf.More thought and variation could/should have gone into these changes, not a cookie cutter solution. With a game that is 5 years old, and new MMO's on the horizon, you guys should have realized that. There is nothing enticing about these changes to make any one say WOW! The only races that make out well are Barbarians and Ogres. The rest of us lose more than we gain.With the amount of losing we're about to be doing (avatar loot nerf, gear degratation) you'd think we could stand to gain something along the way. Don't add more to the nerf pile.. All that will accomplish is a big messy landslide.I got my hopes up on these changes, and I'm very disappointed now that I've seen what is in store for us.

Geothe

08-28-2009, 05:53 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>When players say they don't want race to matter, .....</blockquote>When players say they don't want race to matter... SoE revamps racials to force race-to-class pairings even more.Brilliant!

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 06:01 PM

<cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 4 ~ This seems to be a mixture of abilities (crusader, bard?)Attributes (These Scale)* STR & INT Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 Defence, +5 Disruption* +1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE, +1 Deflection* +5 Crushing, +5 Slashing* +1% Casting Speed, +1 RDA, +1DANone Combat* Duration of Food +15%* Out of Combat power regeneration increased by 9 (Scales will level)* Increases Sprint Speed by 10, reduces initial power cost by 33%* +5% SpeedPools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Health by 3%Resists* Increased Physcial* Increased Elemental</div></blockquote></blockquote>It ignores the Paladin's main attribute WIS and STR for melee/auto-attack (Scouts got this for some strange reason). That's more like for SKs, as STR/INT are their main attributes.God, Paladins need every stat!

Silerua

08-28-2009, 06:06 PM

'K, I used Aeralik's list to just snag one race from each "archetype package" so if any of this info is wrong... I misread something, and/or made a false assumption *nod* Here are the different packages, hopefully this will tide you guys over until someone with more stamina and endurance than me can finish their write-up... d:FIGHTER/PRIEST ~ STA/WIS ~ Barbarian | Dwarf | Froglok | Ogre | Sarnak | Troll Combat:<ul><li> +Ministration</li><li> +% Casting Speed of Beneficial Spells</li><li> +Deflection, Parry, and Defense</li><li> +% Shield Effectiveness & +Deflection Chance</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Duration of Tradeskilled Drinks</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li><li> Heal Self for 2% of Max Health (2 sec casting, 1 sec recast, out of combat only)</li><li> -% Falling Damage</li></ul> Pools: +3% Max Power | +3% Max Health Resists: Arcane | PhysicalFIGHTER/MAGE ~ STA/INT ~ Iksar Combat:<ul><li> +Disruption and Subjugation</li><li> +% Casting Speed of Hostile Spells</li><li> +Parry, Deflection, and Defense</li><li> +% Shield Effectiveness & +Deflection Chance</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Duration of Tradeskilled Potions</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li><li> Heal Self for 2% of Max Health (2 sec casting, 1 sec recast, out of combat only)</li><li> -% Falling Damage</li></ul> Pools: +3% Max Power | +3% Max Health Resists: Elemental | Physical MAGE/SCOUT ~ INT/STR ~ Arasai | Dark Elf | Gnome | Ratonga Combat:<ul><li> +Ranged and Piercing</li><li> +% Double Attack of Melee and Ranged Attacks</li><li> +Disruption and Subjugation</li><li> +% Casting Speed of Hostile Spells</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Stealth/Invisible Run Speed</li><li> +% Trigger Count of Poisons</li><li> +% Duration of Tradeskilled Potions</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li></ul> Pools: +1% Max Power and 2% Max Health | +3% Max Power Resists: Noxious | ElementalMAGE/PRIEST ~ INT/WIS ~ Erudite | High Elf Combat:<ul><li> +Defense and Ministration</li><li> +Disruption and Subjugation</li><li> +Spell Damage and Heal Amount</li><li> +% Casting Speed</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Mount Speed</li><li> +% Duration of Tradeskilled Drinks</li><li> +% Duration of Potions</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li></ul> Pools: +3% Max Power | +In-Combat Power Regeneration Resists: Elemental | ArcaneSCOUT/PRIEST ~ STR/WIS ~ Fae | Wood Elf | Halfling Combat:<ul><li> +Piercing and Ranged</li><li> +% Double Attack of Melee and Ranged Attacks</li><li> +Ministration</li><li> +% Casting Speed of Beneficial Spells</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Stealth/Invisible Run Speed</li><li> +% Trigger Count of Poisons</li><li> +% Duration of Potions</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li></ul> Pools: +3% Max Power | +1% Max Power and 2% Max Health Resists: Noxious | ArcaneWELL-ROUNDED ~ INT/STR ~ Human | Kerra | Half Elf Combat:<ul><li> +Defense and Disruption</li><li> +Crushing and Slashing</li><li> +% Double Attack of Melee and Ranged Attacks & Casting Speed</li><li> +% Heal Crit Chance, Shield Effectiveness, Damage Spell Crit Chance, Melee Crit Chance, and Ranged Crit Chance & +Deflection Chance</li></ul> Noncombat:<ul><li> +% Duration of Food</li><li> +Out-of-Combat Power Regeneration</li><li> +Speed While Sprinting & -% Initial Power Cost of Sprint</li><li> +% Run Speed</li></ul> Pools: +3% Max Power | +3% Max Health Resists: Elemental | PhysicalAgain, sorry if I got any of that wrong!! *hides*

Korrupt

08-28-2009, 06:14 PM

There's only 1 fighter/mage, and only 2 mage/priests. Like I stated before arasai should be the evil equivalent to the HE and erudites.They should also maybe look in to the fighter/priest races and swap a couple to fighter/mage. This would balance out the amount of races available to each package some.Funneling everyone that wants to be a pure caster in to erudites and HE, and all the SK's in to iksar imo is a bad idea. All is probably too strong a word, but a good portion of them.

FearDiadh

08-28-2009, 06:17 PM

<cite>Deekin@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok so i am looking over the innate racial abilities, and one thing is glaringly obvious. The massive redundency of scout abilities.SCOUT ABILITIES BEING COPIEDTrackingDisarmPickpocketSlowfallReduce falling dmgALL OTHER ABILITIES BEING COPIEDSpeed burst (Fury, Tinkered Boots)Waterbreathing (preists, totems)Stun Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Fear Immunity (crusader AA line, potions)Call of the Tinkerer (item)So not only are scout abilities being distributed to other classes, but those of us that are scouts are getting little to no benefit with these racial changes, since we already have these abilties. THE POINT of racial abilties is to give some advantage to that races favored class, not discourage it. I mean a barbarian, Ogre, or Troll would make the best scouts right now since they will actually get new useful abilties. The races that are known as scouts, woodelves, halflings, etc are just getting abilties they already have, not benefits to them. VERY VERY BAD design.And im sorry, 5% run speed for dwarves? That makes NO sense, in any fantasy setting. They might have stamina, but run speed is not something dwarves have ever been known for. I dont get into the RP of stuff very often, but anyone that has ever picked up a fantasy novel, or watched a movie the last thing they would be thinking is "wow, look how fast that dwarf runs." Would make alot more sense for them to get a durability thing, or hell even the armor repair abilty. But run speed? come on.</blockquote>Please reconsider handing out the scout skills like candy. It is wonderful for the other archetypes but if you are already a scout you just lose out. Why not just take the time to create some new abilities that will benefit all archetypes equally?These abilities do not even add character and in some cases do not make any sense (erudites get waterbreathing?). I would rather see a mixture of new abilities that no one has yet with unique racial fluff. The loss of the racial deagros just sucks too. Although I love useful abilities, sometimes the best flavor is from things not useful really. Three races get their own dance now while the others share that same silly one. Unique racial dances would add flavor as would unique hello emotes with animations.I am just really disapointed about this whole thing. Instead of getting something to add uniqueness to my character, lots of non scouts get my abilities and I lose my deagro.

Neskonlith

08-28-2009, 06:18 PM

<cite>Zerase@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>After Gu 53 the best evil races for a priest are: Troll,Ogre and Sarnak. That make absolutely no sense in my book , but i guess we are stuck with those change:S</blockquote>I'd bet that Trolls look really hawt in a nurse uniform - and since we are returning to Halas, I am throwing my support behind Sigrdrifa's <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=75&topic_id=454528" target="_blank">Halas and the Crusade for Bare Knees</a>. As for the other stuff, maybe Ogres will be the best at setting broken bones and Sarnaks will be best at field surgery and amputations.Gnomish scouts appear to be fading away and are getting harder to find...<img src="http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb310/Bitter_Coffee/screenies/gninjas.jpg" />

feldon30

08-28-2009, 06:27 PM

<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still have 5hrs on downloading on the test server tho so maybe then it will make sence.</blockquote>Copy all the paks and music files over from your main EQ2 folder to the TestServer folder. Cut your update to 30 minutes.

Krooner

08-28-2009, 06:27 PM

Looking at the list and the makeup IMO there was no interaction between those making the changes and the player base.You are going to have mass people wanting to race respec to fit their playstyle and class rather than race traits being a flavor add.Since were respeccing everything else can I get a game respec potion. Lets me go somewhere else and get credit for 4+ years of playing this game.IMHO this is on par with the whole SWG fiasco.

Snosael

08-28-2009, 06:32 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.</blockquote>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, IksarPriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite</blockquote>Thanks you for listing it like this, it helps a lot to see how the changes were made.I can understand the logic of the first 4 archetype packages, I think it was not executed correctly tho. It makes sense that a certain race would be better at 2 achetypes vs the other 2. Why tho are there some races that reflect some hybrid classes (priest/fighter) but no classes that reflect other hybrid types (scout/fighter or priest/mage*)?If all the races were in the first 4 archetypes I wouldnt really have a problem. But the 3 races that are stuck with Well Rounded Pack are in my opinion overly gimped. This would be a great place hybrid bonuses, but what they actually get they don't compare (they lose more than they gain). *The priest/mage specialty pack is the only one that looks like a good hybrid package. I will have to see what is actually on test, but I am hoping High elves and erudites are not gimped as mages or priests like the 3 Well Rounded races are at everything.

Rainmare

08-28-2009, 06:33 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.</blockquote>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, IksarPriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite</blockquote>So you expect my high elf paladin to become better on this spell casting and healer side...and not be shunned becuase he got nothing for his main job, tanking? eh I suppose it'll work I guess. I mean none of my racials now really help my tanking skills, but maybe at least now I can slightly improve my self/group healing and my spell damage.I guess I was just hoping for something melee based. a bone thrown to my archtype, maybe a mit bonus due to the fact high elves use mithril armor which is one of the toughest metals on norrath. But I'll make due I guess.

ScubaEtte

08-28-2009, 06:38 PM

I know you have been ignoring this question <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=242118">Aeralik</a> , but we want to know the answer. Since you have made "MAJOR CHANGES" to all races, when this goes live are we getting free race respect cards with one charge on it per character.

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 06:41 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's only 1 fighter/mage, and only 2 mage/priests. Like I stated before arasai should be the evil equivalent to the HE and erudites.They should also maybe look in to the fighter/priest races and swap a couple to fighter/mage. This would balance out the amount of races available to each package some.Funneling everyone that wants to be a pure caster in to erudites and HE, and all the SK's in to iksar imo is a bad idea. All is probably too strong a word, but a good portion of them.</blockquote>Can't really if lore plays any part to it. Some classes were just designed for fighters (and Frogloks are suppose to be good warriors -- so much emphasis on being a noble knight and so associated with Marr in the game [almost like they have to be Paladins]).Wished if they were going to do this, just make races better suited for classes. STA/WIS is okay for Paladins, but it's really STR/WIS we need. STA/WIS isn't really a good combo for fighters as STR plays such an important part, too.Picked a Barbarian for a Pally for the stats which w-e-r-e great for the class. Now going to lose STR, as we're paired with priests like Templars who's primary stats are STA/WIS???

Korrupt

08-28-2009, 06:51 PM

I'm not sure what part of the lore would restrict them from rounding out the mage/priest specialty with arasai. TBH either DE or arasai would be good candidates for the mage/priest specialty but due to the amount of scout DE's I think they've gotten the package best suited for them. Arasai would be the obvious choice left for people that want to play an evil race with the priest/mage package. Lore restrictions on the fighter/mage package would be harder to overcome, but I believe giving that package 3 options would be best for the game overall. Spreading it out between evil/neutral/good would be another hurdle lore wise but I think it could be done effectively.

Beastmage

08-28-2009, 06:53 PM

I'm not thrilled about the changes.My iksar defiler and iksar beserker get about nothing out of this. I actually lose my 50m range melee poison attack that i find incredibly useful.Personally I'd rather just keep what I have now then move to the new racial system.I thought the race selection should add flavor to how you play your class while offering no significant advantages or disadvantages for not being a different race. The racial CAs, deaggros, and whatnot did that to some extent. Some may have been too powerful and others too weak, but it was closer to what I thought was an ideal racial system then this crud coming out.What we are getting is a straight performance modifier that may or may not have any impact on our class with the useless 'visions' thrown in as our fluff. Gee, wonderful.

Snosael

08-28-2009, 06:54 PM

<cite>Brom@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know you have been ignoring this question <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=242118">Aeralik</a> , but we want to know the answer. Since you have made "MAJOR CHANGES" to all races, when this goes live are we getting free race respect cards with one charge on it per character. </blockquote>But then who would buy the Racial Respec potions from the Station Store?? I hope we do get a free respec tho. We get free AA respecs everytime they jack those around. But then, we only have to pay in game coin to change those. We are talking about real money for race changes =(

Wilde_Night

08-28-2009, 06:57 PM

So each race gets two of these packages based on the general lore of each race... I would have given them each three, personally. Dark Elves* have always been devoted to Innoruuk and their clerics/priests are well documented in Norrathian history. No race is the best at every archtype, but using EQ1 as a template, almost all of them were great or decent at three.So, if you wanted to be a Dark Elf fighter, you weren't as good as your Troll, Ogre, Iksar or even Sarnak counterparts. But if you were a priest, scout or mage, you were what the race was designed to do.Just my two cents.*I only use Dark Elves because I am the most knowledgeable in that particular race. Honestly I enjoy playing them all.

denmom

08-28-2009, 06:58 PM

A suggestion if I may...If possible, allow races to choose whatever package they want?Example: the Arasai being created as a priest can take the package which gives them the beneficial spell bonus.Just something that came to mind after reading the pages here. I do feel, however, that the new packages do seem to strongarm players into taking a typical race for a class instead of allowing for a bit more diversity.

Yarginis

08-28-2009, 07:10 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, Iksar, FaePriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite</blockquote>Not sure how Fae got into the scout package there, Fae should me Mage/Priest not scout priest IMO. Other than that it doesn't look to bad with the exception of not having any decent to look at tank races. (a Gome/Wood Elf/Ratonga... may not take hits as well as a Ogre, but they should sure have an easier time avoiding them)I'd echo that giving everyone 3 packs, (though limit them to picking from 2, they just choose which 2, would be a better option to allow more freedom in picking your race)

Lexorin

08-28-2009, 07:15 PM

If we could select then everyone would take the two that most helped them. And apparently that's bad. As we can see by there not being a fighter/scout set, a fighter being able to cherry-pick from those abilities would be better off then if they had to choose from fighter/mage. Or, in my case, scout/mage.On the other hand the abilities gained are negligible at best so who cares if we can take the best from both worlds? Currently as a rat guard I probably won't even spend all 8 picks. Whereas with the old/current list I like and use all the picks I've made.Anyway, this whole rebalance thing just looks like it's hell bent on shoe-horning races into set classes and if you deviate from the proscribed race/class combo then you get junk abilities. Screw RP! Let's all jump on the min/max bandwagon because that's what SOE wants us to do...

Bookbunny

08-28-2009, 07:30 PM

Races that made the most sense to be "scoutish" were given scout abilities, thus making them the poorist racial choice for a Scout. Brilliant.I would have much preferred unique and original racials instead of multiple copies of abilities already in the game. These changes pigeonhole a character more than ever unless you feel you need 2 versions of the same ability.

Ballads

08-28-2009, 07:32 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.<blockquote> </blockquote></blockquote>Uh, How do explain the 2 stun immunitys and the fear immunity? They are cleary combat cast abilities way more benificial then the deaggro. If your gonna claim you removed it because you "decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools" then you must remove the immunitys as they are just that.

Cal

08-28-2009, 07:38 PM

Amazing how many people are never satisfied with anything. I agree with a previous poster. Few really wanted racial abilities to be fairly equal across the board. What they wanted was to have their racial choices be OPed like Dark Elves currently are.

Fenix

08-28-2009, 07:46 PM

<cite>Kigneer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's only 1 fighter/mage, and only 2 mage/priests. Like I stated before arasai should be the evil equivalent to the HE and erudites.They should also maybe look in to the fighter/priest races and swap a couple to fighter/mage. This would balance out the amount of races available to each package some.Funneling everyone that wants to be a pure caster in to erudites and HE, and all the SK's in to iksar imo is a bad idea. All is probably too strong a word, but a good portion of them.</blockquote>Can't really if lore plays any part to it.</blockquote>Oh? According to the race description, Arasai are creature of pure magic. Can you explain to me what strength has to do with magic ...really I'm curious?

Fenix

08-28-2009, 07:49 PM

<cite>Calse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Amazing how many people are never satisfied with anything.</blockquote>Well i was already satisfied , I never ask for a change ...

Tinthalas

08-28-2009, 07:49 PM

I do not understand why ogers and barbarians have a casted 10second immunity to stun while trolls get a 20 second immunity to fear.Why not simply change this to Barbarians and Ogers have a 30% chance to resist being stunned. And Trolls have a 30% chance to resist being feared. Now we don't have to take up another hotkey on our bars nor do we have to listen to ACT "beep" when a stun or fear may or may not hit.Who was it exactly that said: Hmmm I know what would be fun!! lets make Barbarians and Ogers (the two smartest races) Guess when they will be hit with a stun next and then they can push this button and it will be resisted!I agree with many other posters that the Fae and Arisai are still by far the best and most fun class abilities.Being a barbarian was awesome while our run speed was (in sony's eyes) bugged so that we had a 100% runspeed from our 10% increase in speed stacking over and over again. This basically out us in line with Fae and their 50% increase in run speed.Sony is so worried about balance that even when they try to fix it so that it is balanced they fail.I am happy they are at least trying......Want to balance the abilites? Take them all away.Want to make a game FUN and exciting?! Give everyone abilites that are as useful and fun as the Fae's.

Leucippus

08-28-2009, 07:53 PM

A couple of things:(1) All references to "+Ministration" should be replaced by "+Ministration and Ordination".Also, all references to "+Disruption and Subjugation" should be replaced by "+Disruption, Subjugation, and Ordination".Both mages and priests (well shaman at least) use the ordination skill.(2) Currently on live, all increases to harvesting times do _nothing_. Why you ask? The base cast time is 5 seconds , the absolute cap is 2.5 seconds. The tradeskill harvesting devices reduce harvesting time by 2.5 seconds, to the cap. Therefore, the AA skill has no effect! Either have the AA ability kick in after the cap is calculated, for example a 1.5 second cast time for a 1.0 second reduction (assuming the tradeskill/tinkering harvesting tool of course), or have the AA ability affect the base cast time, so the hard camp is changed to 2.0 seconds for a 1.0 second reduction or to 2.25 seconds for a 0.5 second reduction.In general AA abilities should stack with equipment abilities, across the board. A similar situation arises with the wizard Sunstrike and Immolation AA lines after a somewhat recent update to make the AA trees consistent in their handing of casting speed bonuses. The problem that arises is equipment eventually nullifies AA abilties, throwing things out of balance for certain segments of the player base. With the harvesting speed bonuses, this situation happens to affect the entire player base with such harvesting time AA bonuses.-Leucippus

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 07:55 PM

<cite>Zerase@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kigneer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's only 1 fighter/mage, and only 2 mage/priests. Like I stated before arasai should be the evil equivalent to the HE and erudites.They should also maybe look in to the fighter/priest races and swap a couple to fighter/mage. This would balance out the amount of races available to each package some.Funneling everyone that wants to be a pure caster in to erudites and HE, and all the SK's in to iksar imo is a bad idea. All is probably too strong a word, but a good portion of them.</blockquote>Can't really if lore plays any part to it.</blockquote>Oh? According to the race description, Arasai are creature of pure magic. Can you explain to me what strength has to do with magic ...really I'm curious?</blockquote>It's not a Fighter/Priest class that dude was referring, too. All those races are stuck in the Fighter/Priest catagory (most are fighter classes before this change, and the "Priest" label is there to justify the STA/WIS stats. But STR for some reason is missing, which is weirder than weird -- fighter abilities without STR??).

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 08:06 PM

<cite>Tinthalas wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not understand why ogers and barbarians have a casted 10second immunity to stun while trolls get a 20 second immunity to fear.Why not simply change this to Barbarians and Ogers have a 30% chance to resist being stunned. And Trolls have a 30% chance to resist being feared. Now we don't have to take up another hotkey on our bars nor do we have to listen to ACT "beep" when a stun or fear may or may not hit.</blockquote>Thanks! Prefer a passive skill compared to an active one. Already enough buttons and things to watch.Remember giving the MT some stun pots. His first reaction was, they only last 10s. So this isn't going to help much and more fluff. 30% chance sounds much better, and keeps fighters focused on what counts -- and not yet another button to push in 6 hotbars for fighting as it is (running out of space for buttons as it is, due to all the darn pots required to be hotbarred in TSO, too).

Aule

08-28-2009, 08:08 PM

I'm predicting a lotta folks race traitoring over to Ogre or Barbarian, melee ones at least. By and large, stun immunity is more worthwhile than fear immunity and with this change dropping it down to 3 races with active combat buffs there won't be any point to other races. Hmm, barbarian's look like the best race for melee now and Sentinel's Fate is adding Halas. Is that a conspiracy?

Midsong

08-28-2009, 08:18 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arathyen@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ratonga.. they made us scouts.This is complete garbage, I'm sorry there's no other way to put it. As a caster, I'm furious. Lore wise ratonga have been both scouts and mages. Hell, there's a whole colony of mage rats hanging out in the Ruins of Freeport. And yet suddenly we all get lumped into the scout catagory? I call complete Hogwash on this, Devs.At the very least, change us to Version 4, so both scouts make use of Strength, and casters make use of Intelligence.Don't alter 5 years of ratonga lore in one patch, and anger those of us who play casting rats. </blockquote>Ratonga are scout/mage. Like I said the one listing in this thread was not very accurate. Ratonga get an int bonus, hostile casting speed bonus, disruption skill bonus, and power pool bonus as well which are all very mage oriented abilities. Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.</blockquote>The thing I don't understand is why we do not hear this information from the devs first (with the obvious disclamers of subject to change, this also means that the post itself needs to use langauge that suggest subject to change and not absolutes). It is very hard to fight misinformation, the hate it breeds, and mistrust of new information when the only list comes that is out there is inaccurate or incomplete.No link to complete info? The situation is not being helped.Test Patch notes... "Racial choices have changed. As a result, your character development choices have been reset." Serious lacking. This would have been the best place to put this information.No big shiney post somewhere obvious that says that this is what is going on? Communiation could use some definate improvments. Of course, almost the entire MMO industry could use some work on this.

Elyssia

08-28-2009, 08:21 PM

Okay apparantly I'm supposed to post in a thread with a title unrelated to my issue... but anyway...why the hell do High Elves, Erudites and Dark Elves get featherfall abilities and yet Wood Elves don't?They live in Kelethin... lots of heights and big drops... it makes far more sense than just "oh because they are intelligent" or the fact that the race they are copied from in another setting can hover.This ability may not seem like a big deal but when it can make the difference between life and death in a number of situations it actually does become important.

FearDiadh

08-28-2009, 08:26 PM

<cite>Elyssia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Okay apparantly I'm supposed to post in a thread with a title unrelated to my issue... but anyway...why the hell do High Elves, Erudites and Dark Elves get featherfall abilities and yet Wood Elves don't?They live in Kelethin... lots of heights and big drops... it makes far more sense than just "oh because they are intelligent" or the fact that the race they are copied from in another setting can hover.This ability may not seem like a big deal but when it can make the difference between life and death in a number of situations it actually does become important.</blockquote>duh... It is so erudites can breathe water...

Snosael

08-28-2009, 08:27 PM

<cite>Ballads wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.</blockquote>Uh, How do explain the 2 stun immunitys and the fear immunity? They are cleary combat cast abilities way more benificial then the deaggro. If your gonna claim you removed it because you "decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools" then you must remove the immunitys as they are just that.</blockquote>Very good point. These should not be in the current changes. If they thought these combat casted abilities were what was unbalancing classes, we all would have been better off if they were just removed and they left it at that. Isn't Pigeonholeing classes into certain races the exact same problem as before when certain classes were better suited to the race with the uber abilities? Originally this came to be as better abilities were added to newer races over time. Now things get reshuffled and come out no less unbalanced, with most races losing out and the old overpowered races still somehow being overpowered.

Lexorin

08-28-2009, 08:27 PM

Erudites are space aliens. And aliens live in space and in space you don't breath and can fly.Dark elves got float in D&D or something.High elves get float because they're so fancy.

Midsong

08-28-2009, 08:29 PM

Midsong

08-28-2009, 08:35 PM

<cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ballads wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> Unfortunately, we decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools so that you have some racial flavor but the distinctions between two races was relatively minor.</blockquote>Uh, How do explain the 2 stun immunitys and the fear immunity? They are cleary combat cast abilities way more benificial then the deaggro. If your gonna claim you removed it because you "decided to remove casted in combat abilities from the core pools" then you must remove the immunitys as they are just that.</blockquote>Very good point. These should not be in the current changes. If they thought these combat casted abilities were what was unbalancing classes, we all would have been better off if they were just removed and they left it at that. </blockquote>Yeah, ogre stun immunity should be a permanent ability like it is supposed to be. Casted abilities are overpowered. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />

MalkorGodchyld

08-28-2009, 08:36 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why is there a good and neutral race with the mage/priest specialty, and no evil? IMO arasai should be added to that list because it's the evil race that would fit. DE and ratonga's have scouts, and the others are tanks, arasai should be the evil counterpart to HE and erudite.</blockquote>Actually Dark Elf should be the priest/mage specialty being as though they share similar traits with both High Elves (Dark Elf counter part!!!) & Erudites... they all 3 have the innate feather fall ability because they're just that similar in magical lore. Hello? Thats so far outta whack that...just wow. Just because the fury of innoruuk ability made every scout reroll a DE, doesnt mean that DE's are all of a sudden more inclined to be scouts. So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo in the first place??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game.Mariusx

Aeralik

08-28-2009, 08:42 PM

<cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.

Lord Hackenslash

08-28-2009, 08:49 PM

I find the changes interesting althoug I am a bit dissapointed that Wood Elves are again not given any racial abilities related to tanking."But wait" you say, "Wood Elves are not a fighter race?"That is incorrect. Wood Elves in EQ1 were a fery good race for tanking and were one of few races that could worship Rallos Zek. In EQ2 Wood elves were originally one of the best tanking races and this did affect my choice in picking the race. We used to have bonuses to Defense and Parry as well as an Agility boost.Please consider spreading some of Tanking abilities back into the trees open to our race. In addition there are tanks of all races and high end tanking is a game of fractions of a percent. perhaps add an uncontested dodge equivalent to the shield bonus you are adding to the other tank races. There should be something available to all races that achieves the a similar effect even if it does it differently.Remember just because a race is not physically large does not mean they do not have a history of martial prowess. The Spartans in 300 were strong not because they were larger than people of other cultures, but because they have a tradition of training that prepared them to fight. Most races of norrath, particularly those who live outside the cities have lived in constant struggle in defense of thier homes.

MalkorGodchyld

08-28-2009, 08:51 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.</blockquote>That makes sense but don't you think that considering the first paragraph of my post & the fact that there isn't an evil mage/priest combo, that its worth changing the DE or Arasai traits to fit that description? Being a Defiler with no deity is hard enough...throw us a bone plz. ThxMariusx

Korrupt

08-28-2009, 08:56 PM

The problem for mages I think comes from the HE and Erudite racial that increases spell/heal amount. Why does the basic mage package not have this? I'm sure there are other discrepancies with other classes but mage is what I'm most familiar with. This difference in racial ability may look small but scaling to level at lvl 80 or 90 this could be significant, especially for sorcerors that cannot get nearly enough spell mod. I see alot of DE and Arasai mages swapping to Erudite, and good mages flooding the HE race for this single ability alone. And this doesnt address the fact that evils do not have a pure caster race, either DE or Arasai. Again I can really see the reason of giving the dark elves the scout package, but arasai have no such history of being scout based. The only reason they had melee stats at all was because they came out as a new race by themselves and soe wanted people to be able to play them as any class, unlike the original races that were made as predominantly 1 archetype or another. Obviously they are not a scout race, a ninja with wings? Really?

Midsong

08-28-2009, 09:00 PM

thorn

08-28-2009, 09:17 PM

Im still going to keep my wood elf warrior and dark elf sk. Lore, best combo or not.. its what i like. I dont think you can please everyone, and definately cant please everyone all the time. Overall its a move into the right direction. Before we didnt have any choices and people griped and complained, now you have a few choices and people still complain. LOL, so what does that tell you. In the long run, none of these small racial traits are going to make any difference. Its gear, aas and playstyle that will define the character.

Fenix

08-28-2009, 09:19 PM

<cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.</blockquote>That makes sense but don't you think that considering the first paragraph of my post & the fact that there isn't an evil mage/priest combo, that its worth changing the DE or Arasai traits to fit that description? Being a Defiler with no deity is hard enough...throw us a bone plz. ThxMariusx</blockquote>Amen!

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 09:30 PM

<cite>Midsong wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Snosael wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are each race still getting 2 packages? If so, which 2 do each race get? From the posts I am seeing it looks like each race only gets one.</blockquote>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, IksarPriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite</blockquote>Fighters: But I don't like the ladies of any of those races... Sexism or something! Sexy female does mean must be protected! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>There's always a knight in shining armor to rescue damsels in distress (why I picked a male Barbarian and playing a Paladin in shining armor). As a woman playing a male character, the last thing I want to worry about in a fight is losing a heel or if there's a run in the stocking!Everyone has their fantasies (do bring me a REAL knight, though!). :p

KerowynnKaotic

08-28-2009, 09:53 PM

<cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><div>BarbariansInate:* Immunity to Stun, casting Instant, Recast 5min, Duration 10s* Sprint into Battle (+10 sprint Speed 30% less initial power)* +5% Run Speeed</div><div>* +25% on all potion use as a 'nod' to their EQ1 alchemy skill. USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>DwarvesInate:* Ultravision* Reduced Mining Speed by 1s AND +5 mining skill* Grants Skill: Disarm Trap SHOULD BE: Repairs all equipment, 12hour recast* Sprint into Battle (+10 sprint Speed 30% less initial power)USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>High ElvesInate:* Infravision* 10% power reduction in Transmuting.(lame)</div><div>*5% reduction in power cost for all spells/combat arts</div><div>* Reduced Falling Speed* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat)USES VERSION 2</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Frogloks* Unknown, locked on test</div><div>I think Waterbreathing and Safe fall .. which is near perfect .. probably could have glide too .. long jumps with powerful back legs and all .. </div></blockquote><blockquote><div>FaeInate:* Infravision* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* Reduced Falling Speed* Glide</div><div>* a Magical Rune barrier that absorbs # of Magic Dmg (scalable) (they were born of stagnant pools of left over magic according to lore) .. USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Wood ElvesInate:* Infravision* Reduces Time to gather/forest by 1s* +5% Speed* Tracking *caresses her Track button* USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>HalflingsInate:* Infravision* Improves Duration of all food by 25%* Pick Pocket casting 1s recast 5min* Tracking .. if possible .. I'd rather see them get an inherent Bountiful Harvest for an additional 1-3%, that will stack with the TSO AA. (or even a both tracking & BH) USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>EruditeInate:* Aura Vision* Reduces Max Falling Speed (why would they get this?!) * Waterbreathing (why would they get this?)* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat) (meh .. )*5% reduction in power cost for all spells/combat arts</div><div>* a Magical Rune barrier that absorbs # of Magic Dmg (scalable) (hey .. they survived a huge mofo experiment that by all rights should have wiped them out .. )</div><div>USES VERSION 2</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>GnomesInate:* Ultravision* Reduces power cost of tinkering by 25%, Increases Tinkering by 10* Repairs all equipment, 12hour recast ('cause of tinkering right? .. meh)* Grants Skill: Disarm Traps</div><div>* Any way to give them increased % on all Tinkered items that have %'s? USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Half ElvesInate:* Infravision* Reduces time to gather or forest by 1s All harvesting reduced by 0.5s* Tracking* Increases duration of drinks by 16.67% (lame)</div><div>* Plus +1 to all Combat skills. USES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>HumanInate:* All harvesting reduced by 0.5s 1s* Reduces Awarenes of Enemies, Casting 3s Recast 3min* Reduces recast time on city call spells by 10min</div><div>* Plus +1 to all skills .. jack of all trades and all .. (Combat skills, Crafting skills & Harvesting)USES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>KerraInate:* Sonicvision* Grants Ability: Safefall</div><div>* +5 run speed* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* TrackingUSES VERSION 4</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>ArasaiInate:* Ultravision* Reduces Max Falling Speed* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* Glide</div><div>* a Magical Rune barrier that absorbs # of Magic Dmg (scalable) (they were born of stagnant pools of left over magic according to lore and then twisted with more Magic .. ) .. USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Dark ElfInate:* Ultravision* +5% Speed* Reduces Max Falling Speed (Never got that one) ..</div><div>* 5% reduction in power cost for all spells/combat arts</div><div>* 5% increase in duration of all Potion/poisons* Teleports caster to group member in zone (recast 12hours, none combat) (meh)USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>IksarInate:* Aquavision* Out of Combat health regernation of caster by 5 (persume this scales)* Water Breathing* Grants Ability: Safefall</div><div>* a Magical Rune barrier that absorbs # of Heat Dmg (scalable)(lizards and all .. )USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>OgreInate:* Immunity to Stun, casting Instant, Recast 5min Duration 10s* Ultravision* Reduces Mining Time by 1s* Enlarge Caster by 20%</div><div></div><div>* +5 in resist of Slash, Crush & Pierce (thick skinned and all.. )</div><div>USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>RatongaInate:* Pick Pocket, casting 1s recast 5min* Sonicvision* Grants SKill, Disarm Trap* +5% Speed (in/out combat and in/out invis)</div><div>* Improves Duration of all food by 25% (rats tend to hoard food)</div><div>USES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>SarnakInate:* Aquavision* 50% Speed casting 2s recast 5min* Reduces all harvesting by 0.5s if not on a mount. (eh?)* 5% Speed</div><div>* a Magical Rune barrier that absorbs # of Heat Dmg (scalable)(lizards and all .. )USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>TrollInate:* Ultravision* Out of Combat health regernation of caster by 5 (persume this scales)* Immune to Fear, Casting 1s recast 5min, Duration 20s* Increases duration of tradeskill food by 25%USES VERSION 1</div></blockquote>*snipped* </blockquote>A few suggestion of tweaks that I'd prefer to see over-all, for what it's worth .. .. *shrug* .. And, I agree with several other posters .. the Vision 'abilities' suck and are of limited use to anyone, regardless of race with the sole exception of water-vision, and yet they are sitting up there taking up a 'special' ability slot .. blah! ..

Firecracker

08-28-2009, 09:55 PM

I would like for the ratanga's to get a safe fall myself. You won't beleive how far a real rat can fall with out getting hurt. At least be fair for when Cats (Kerra) chases a rat (Ratanga) they jump and fall down without getting hurt. The normally get hurt if a Cat sink thier teeth in.

Ballads

08-28-2009, 10:00 PM

Purrcey

08-28-2009, 10:37 PM

SOE VP SAYS: Ok, we need to generate some quick capital, anyone have an idea?DEV_01: What about racial respects. We could add a potion to the Station Marketplace and make a killing.SOE VP SAYS: Not bad, but how do we get everyone to buy the potions?DEV_02: The players have been asking for balance. We can change all the skill sets for the sake of balance. Then get this...we can run the demigraphics and see what races play what classes and change it so 75% of the players have the wrong race/class combo. They will buy the repsect potions in droves!SOE VP: (rub$ hand$) BRILLIANT!/seriuoslySo in all fairness...will the racial respect be via in game plat fees like all the other repects or are you going to try to get player to pay real money?Also will there be one free respect when it goes live as is normal?

Safiyra

08-28-2009, 10:38 PM

I know its been said before in this post, but i'd like to echo support for the idea as well. Would it really be so bad to let us pick the 2 packages (or the well-rounded) each character gets? It was said when this was mentioned the Devs wanted us to feel like we weren't quite so locked into particular races for certain classes and if we could just pick the packages that gives us the freedom to do so.It may break lore slightly to have say an Ogre picking a Mage package, but only in so much as that'd break away from the stereotype for the Ogre race. Looking through this thread so far, the complaints have all been either "its to bland period" or "I don't like the selection I got on my race"; by letting us pick the packages that negates half of the complaints people have right there as well.I just ask the devs to please consider letting us pick the packages our characters get. Let all the Fae warriors and Ogre mages get their chance to benefit properly from these changes.* and no I don't play either combination, i'm a Kerran mage :p

scalzo

08-28-2009, 10:46 PM

Just an idea I am tossing out there.Barbarian/Ogre Stun resistanceTroll/Iksar Fear resistanceDwarf/Froglok Stifle resistanceSeems pretty balanced for the primary fighter races right?

Fenix

08-28-2009, 10:59 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.</blockquote>Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only racial that Arasai have for scout is: Dark Envy and Aerial dodging. But those racial are couple 2% spell critical and 10% casting speed . Keep in mind , that those bonus apply for both beneficial and hostile spell. Which is good for mage AND priest, but after GU53 those bonus will only apply to hostile spell. In other words it's a nerf for my Defiler.

Cusashorn

08-28-2009, 11:03 PM

You know, I think the worst thing here is that I assume the Developers decided to make these changes without listening to it's player base on what would actually be best.It's obvious that Dark Elves are overpowered right now, and I think most people just wanted them to be nerfed in that regard.It's obvious from these changes that they want to shoehorn certain races as the best for specific classes. As has already been mentioned, even before the game launched, they said that certain races were better off as certain archetypes than others. They ment this strictly from a Stat perspective, back when stats were suppose to mean something. If this is the way they want to go, then here's how I think they should have done it.I think that they should factor in each Class, and in some cases, subclass to the races who could play as them in EQlive.Warriors: every race except Erudite and High Elf. Any race could pick up a sword and swing it. Most races chose this basic form of combat as the perfered method of protecting their cities. These races should get a Warrior Class trait for Guardians and Berzerkers. This would include the stun immunity and stuff... Yeah.. Even for the miniature races like Halflings, Dwarves, and especially Gnomes.Monks: Lets get one thing straight: Humans invented martial arts. Period. We perfected it, and there is no argument about this. Until the Iksar were introduced, Humans were the ONLY race who could play as Monks. All established orders of martial arts around the world were made of Humans, and those ancient orders are still *EXCLUSIVELY* Human. (except for the Swifttails that the Iksar formed, obviously.) It was a Human Monk who was blessed with the art of Arcane Combat from Quellious herself. None of the other classes in this game would have nearly as much power as they do now if not for the fact that Qeynos earned enough trust to learn them, and Freeport learned them by torturing a monk. Humans and Iksar should get racial traits that make them excel as Monks, which should include +30 Double Attack, Parry, and Deflection. Yes, I am being serious. Monks did not have any skill cap restrictions on Double Attack, Dodge, Parry, Block (which didn't require a shield back then) or Reposte in EQlive. All other melee classes could only skill up to a certain level. I think such a boost would be a much needed benefit to our class.(yes, I am being biased here since I play a historically accurate Human Monk. a class that needs some serious love. Enough to make them actually be wanted in groups.)Bruisers: Ogres, Humans, Barbarians, Dark Elves, Iksar, and maybe Trolls. The class itself has no lore or history other than the fact that a monk decided to stay with Lucan D'Lere in Freeport and found his rule and influence to be a better choice, but these races are the most evident of these thugs.Crusaders: Humans, Erudites, Dark Elves, Trolls, Ogres, Gnomes, Dwarves, Half Elves, Halflings, Frogloks, and Iksar. All of these races could play either as a Paladin, Shadowknight, or Both. These races should get traits that benefit both classes.Clerics: Humans, Erudites, Halflings, Gnomes, Frogloks, High Elves, Half Elves, Dwarves, and Dark Elves. Anyone can be devouted to their god, but these races took the worship of Karana, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Innoruuk, Brell Serilis, Tunare, Mithanial Marr, Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, and Bristlebane to a whole new level.Druids: Humans, Halflings (the only two races who could be either clerics or druids), Wood Elves, and Half Elves. These races cared the most about nature in general, and have a long-running history as such.Shaman: Barbarians, Ogres, Trolls, Kerra, and Frogloks (the only race who could choose from either Shamans or Clerics.) These more primitive races either weren't smart enough or devout enough to be clerics, or their environmental upbringings didn't let them commune with nature too much. The Frogloks being the exception here, as they chose to continue shamanism because they knew that they could make good use of ancient practices, and use their newfound intellegence to improve upon it. The Kerra being the other exception because they're all about spirituality. In fact, they don't care about the gods.Sorcerers: Humans, Erudites, High Elves, Dark Elves, Gnomes, and Frogloks. The practice of magic was pretty widespread across Norrath. Channeling mana into powerful forces of energy was no exception.Summoners: Humans, Erudites, High Elves, Dark Elves, Gnomes, an Iksar. If a race practiced one art of magic, they pretty much practiced all of them. The Iksar being an exception, as they practiced Necromancy, but history prevented them from studying anything else after the fall of their empire. All these races excelled in Conjuration.Enchanters: Humans, Erudites, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Gnomes: Same as the others, these 5 races practiced the most in the arts of phantasmagoria and beguilement.Predators: Humans, Halflings, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, and Half Elves. Even though there was no Assassin class in EQlive, the Dark Elves by history, have always considered their rogues of the Ebon Mask to be nothing less. All the other races who were more intune with nature practiced archery and hunting.Rogues: Humans, Halflings, Wood Elves, Frogloks, Barbarians, Gnomes, Dark Elves, Dwarves, Kerra, and Half Elves. With the exception of Humans, and Dark Elves, each of these races implored those who prefered to sneak and be unseen in the aid of their cities' everyday lives and protection. True swashbucklers through and through. Gnomes were a little on the fence here. They generally helped with Ak'Anon, but they did some seedy business as well. The Dwarves themselves were Miners of all things.Bards: Humans, Half Elves, Wood Elves, Kerra. The League of Antonican Bards was a major part of Norrath. Delivering Mail and recording the events of history were only two of many things they did. Wood elves and Humans for the most part took interest in the art of singing. Wood Elves were sometimes said to have enchanted voices. Even the Kerra liked to use thier vocal chords, but they'd fit more into the Dirge catagory because of that.If the devs want certain races to be based off their histories and lore, then the best option would not be to classify each race as "Fighter, Scout, Mage, Priest, or All-Around Balance." The better option would be to attune these races to the specific classes they had to play as in EQlive.Yes, I am intentionally ignoring Fae, Arasai, Ratonga, and Gorowyn Sarnaks, as they didn't exist in EQlive, and their lore and history is developed here and now, and this post is too long as it is. I don't want to go into speculation about which classes these races should be.

Morghus

08-28-2009, 11:03 PM

<cite>Zerase@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.</blockquote>Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only racial that Arasai have for scout is: Dark Envy and Aerial dodging. But those racial are couple 2% spell critical and 10% casting speed . Keep in mind , that those bonus apply for both beneficial and hostile spell. Which is good for mage AND priest, but after GU53 those bonus will only apply to hostile spell. In other words it's a nerf for my Defiler.</blockquote>Yea, in alot of cases some races have it worse on test than currently on live. I used to have an ability or two that helped me with my class but as the changes are currently on test I could pick none of my racials and it would be the same as having all of them enabled at once.

Fenix

08-28-2009, 11:10 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's obvious that Dark Elves are overpowered right now, and I think most people just wanted them to be nerfed in that regard.</blockquote>Doing a mass racial revamp because ONE race/class combo is over powered is stupid plain and simple. I hope SOE realize that. =S

TheSpin

08-28-2009, 11:11 PM

Overall I want to say that I'm happy to see some more attention paid to racial abilities. The general idea of the new system looks pretty good. I will definately miss those in combat abilities, both the attacks and the deaggros. They definately had an impact on the races I play and some of my previous choices have lost a little appeal.I think giving up the in-combat abilities for a more balanced set of racials is a fair trade-off, but I definately think that some races need multiple 'tables' to choose from. For example, gnomes have been given the 'scout' table, but there are also a lot of caster gnomes. Many other races are known for their versatillity, or at least have two popular archetypes. An option to select from at least 2 of the 4 tables should be implemented in my opinion.

Wikfizb

08-28-2009, 11:13 PM

<cite>Arathyen@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>And why on earth would you guys remove Pitiful Plea from the Ratonga list? It's been in game for the last 5 years..Seriously though, things like Infravision, Sonic Vision, Ultravision.. those shouldn't even count towards the 4 static racial traits. Having them in the list is like admitting you couldn't think of anything else to fit in. They are nothing but flavor, widely unused (although I still use sonic vision in Sol Eye), and in today's raiding game, having one activated will get your raid killed on fights like Zarrakon, Mynzak, Switchmaster, were most folks use the vision changes as a cue to check for curses/detrements.I'm most disappointed about the Pitiful Plea removal however. This is an ability that I use constantly. I strongly consider swapping it back in and removing something like Rob.</blockquote>Having some type of racial vision OR class based vision enhancement is very important to me. My Gnome Conj uses cats eye much of the time, and my Ratonga Warden uses Sonicvision equaly often (it does make it so I dont see my charm animal termination warning tho). My Ratonga is mostly pleased with the changes as I never used pitiful plea (I'm not a raider, and never had much problem with agro in groups), but if I were to choose a race based on the new ability sets it would be Keran, but then I would no longer be pleasing to gaze upon, and well, I dont think trackign is worth that <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> (hmmm, upon re-reading th list, it seems halflings get tacking, now thats a tempting racial re-spec, not quite as handsome as ratonga, but still better than most races). Rob is something I've never used either (are there ANY Ratonga that actually use this ability? yes it makes sense as a racial, but with its long recast, its just not worth putting on a hotbar to me) , so I would not mind seeign that go away. The disarm trap is potentialy nice, but I'd rather have tracking than that (maybe not as much as wood elves, but I think a case could be made for ratonga being natural trackers, but then again a case could be made for druids also gettign track, and thats probably not very likely either now). I am pleased to see the extra run speed as a racial inate, but again, I'd gladly give that up for tracking. Sonic vision is the only racial I would even debate the value of vs tracking to me, and even then I think I'd choose trackign and just adjust the gama correction as needed in dungeons and at night to offset its loss. Overall I think trackign is too valuable an ability to give as a racial when the only ways to get it are to be a scout or to choose a race that has it. By havign it as a racial, it makes every race that does not have it feel a bit shafted I think (feather fall is comparativly valuable to me, but unlike trackign it can be obtained through items)****I have not yet tested any of the races that get a scouting perk, but for those that do, making it something like adding +50 or whatever value would be appropriate to the skill would make it so that it is a benefit to scouts and would also not infringe on their class skill too much.****The rest of the ratonga abilities do look decent tho (the level up picks). Previously the onyl ratonga racial pick I saw any value in was the one that increased spell crits or somethign like that (and even that was a meh, its ok I guess pick) and the rest were worthless to me.It looks like Gnomes also lost their racial agro reducer (again, not an issue to me, but to those that use them probably a very big deal). At a quick glance, the gnome stuff looks fitting and I don't have much to add for that.I guess the question is if racial abilities should make a huge difference or not. It seems to me that for some races they still will (fae, kerran and most of the elves), but for many races, its just a bit more flavor and we may feel like were having to sacrifice some very good stuff to play the race we want. I'm ok with the genericness of the level up picks, but I think each race should have some nifty inate perk to distinguish it.

Kigneer

08-28-2009, 11:24 PM

<cite>scalzo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just an idea I am tossing out there.Barbarian/Ogre Stun resistanceTroll/Iksar Fear resistanceDwarf/Froglok Stifle resistanceSeems pretty balanced for the primary fighter races right?</blockquote>It sort of pigeonholes what race goes with what class, though. As a Pally, stun resistence is nice, but stifle will kill me faster as I can't heal myself nor do anything but auto-attack (which for a low dps class, can be a death sentence as spell damage is suppose to compliment the melee damage for Paladins). So for a Pally, it basically forces Dwarf/Froglok, neither classes I will switch to for my main.

Silerua

08-28-2009, 11:30 PM

<cite>Wikfizbik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think each race should have some nifty inate perk to distinguish it.</blockquote>What about the nifty innate perk of Dark Elf women being the loveliest of all? /ducks and runs

Cusashorn

08-28-2009, 11:38 PM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wikfizbik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think each race should have some nifty inate perk to distinguish it.</blockquote>What about the nifty innate perk of Dark Elf women being the loveliest of all? /ducks and runs</blockquote>Or how Humans have the largest breasts out of all the races when you factor in general breast size to body size ratios for each race. ¬_¬

Hogatha

08-29-2009, 12:27 AM

<cite>Safiyra wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know its been said before in this post, but i'd like to echo support for the idea as well. Would it really be so bad to let us pick the 2 packages (or the well-rounded) each character gets? It was said when this was mentioned the Devs wanted us to feel like we weren't quite so locked into particular races for certain classes and if we could just pick the packages that gives us the freedom to do so.It may break lore slightly to have say an Ogre picking a Mage package, but only in so much as that'd break away from the stereotype for the Ogre race. Looking through this thread so far, the complaints have all been either "its to bland period" or "I don't like the selection I got on my race"; by letting us pick the packages that negates half of the complaints people have right there as well.I just ask the devs to please consider letting us pick the packages our characters get. Let all the Fae warriors and Ogre mages get their chance to benefit properly from these changes.* and no I don't play either combination, i'm a Kerran mage :p</blockquote>I like this idea. After all, really the race is just an outer appearance type thing. ALL races can be all classes. Why should everybody be pushed into choosing the same race based on the traits provided. I've actually considered going back to that other "wow" game based on the fact that all the races I've picked are losing the things I like most about them and gaining.....nothing.

Mikkachu

08-29-2009, 01:32 AM

Some of these make sense. Some don't. I think the problem is that, really, many races did sort of have three ares of focus, and if you're only letting two areas take heed (save for the mixed kerra/half-elf/human thing, which is pretty darn blah compared to the other 'versions'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, which I think is sort of sad... but then, if you tried to put three areas of focus together, we'd be getting things even more distilled.At the same time, though, I think 'everyone can pick and choose whatever they want' is a bit too much. Heck, I think this, as it is, makes everyone a bit too similar. But maybe it would be better, if this is what we get.And, you know, we're missing the ever-useful Fighter/Scout, which is what Half-Elves and Kerrans should be. Humans might be incredibly varried, but Half-Elves and Kerrans are a bit more distinct then that. Going back to EQ1 even, neither a Half-Elf or a Kerran could be a caster of any sort, and while the Half-Elves did have something of a druid tradition, the Kerrans only had a few scattered shaman. There's no mention in EQ2 about either race starting a big caster or priest movement, either. Dark Elves are more varied then them: the Dark Elves have their long-standing Rogue Guild and Mage Guild, as well as the Shadow Knights and Priests in service to Innourak. Same with Gnomes. Why are the Half-Elves and Kerrans in group 4? Yes, that would leave only the Humans in the Version 4 hangout, but there's only the Iskars hanging around being Fighter/Mages, so is that such a big deal?(And, you know: yes, Erudites were the only class that couldn't be warriors back in the old EQ1 days. But Erudites had very serious Paladin and Shadowknight Guilds, and they seem to be slowly following the humans in the Monk thing. They wouldn't be out of place over there, and if one moved Arasai over to Mage/Priest, one would have a good/evil race as M/P as well as an evil/nut option for Fighter/Mage.)Why do the Mage/Priests make their mount run faster, while I'm on that subject? It just seems sort of out of the blue. Fighter/Priests seem like a better group for that....And Dwarves should mend, and *nothing* comes even close to Fae/Arasai Feather Fall, and it's something of a laugh to compare the High Elf/Erudite/Dark Elf 'I sorta kinda float... save for when I'm on a mount. Oops.' routine. Let all five float, or let all five fall. And then compare that (and the mending, and the teleporting, and the tracking, and the disarming, and the waterbreathing, and the water-walking, and the safe falling, and the pickpocketing, and even the silly slower food/better tinkerin' and mutin' stuff) against the 'harvest something mildly faster for two hours or so of work, in which after that it will be absolutely useless for as you're going to bump against the 'can get cooler stuff' cap'.I mean, come on. Humans don't even have a crappy vision spell to make up with this! Sure, Ultra and Intra and Sonic are as much a nauseant as they are something helpful and Aura Vision is useful for exactly 1 out of 24 classes (Aqua Vision is mildly helpful, with an emphisis on the mildly), but they're still something. Something more important then .5 reduced harvesting (...and .5 to every skill is much nicer then 1sec to two skills or 1sec to one skill, oh Half-Elf and Ogre).I just... I don't know. Some races are making out pretty good with this. Some... not so much.

Cusashorn

08-29-2009, 01:37 AM

High Elves couldn't be warriors either.I still think that making racial traits based off the race's class choices from EQlive would be best. I can't really think of any good examples of how to improve anyone else besides Monks in that regard, but it would be a lot more focused and not so lame.

Quicksilver74

08-29-2009, 01:40 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, I think the worst thing here is that I assume the Developers decided to make these changes without listening to it's player base on what would actually be best.Humans and Iksar should get racial traits that make them excel as Monks, which should include +30 Double Attack, Parry, and Deflection. Yes, I am being serious.</blockquote>So, you think the devs did not listen to it's playerbase because human monks (the race/class combo you play) don't have a whopping +30 Double Attack, +30 Parry, and +30 Deflection? I hear ya bro. While they're at it, they need to give Ogre Bruisers + 200% base damage, +300 Crit Bonus, and a clicky stoneskin procs, which sucks up 3 attacks, re-castable every 5 seconds. Seriously though, the simple fact that you had to write "YES I AM BEING SERIOUS" in your post, means that deep down you know that your request is ridiculous. I'd also like to point out that in your list, you listen humans as being optimal for every class other than shaman. I think your bias is seriously skewing your viewpoint. EQ2 is a different world than EQ1. It is a world in which Ogres invented martial arts, and humans are only useful for calling back to their home city 10 minutes faster.

Cusashorn

08-29-2009, 02:06 AM

<cite>Crabbok@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, I think the worst thing here is that I assume the Developers decided to make these changes without listening to it's player base on what would actually be best.Humans and Iksar should get racial traits that make them excel as Monks, which should include +30 Double Attack, Parry, and Deflection. Yes, I am being serious.</blockquote>So, you think the devs did not listen to it's playerbase because human monks (the race/class combo you play) don't have a whopping +30 Double Attack, +30 Parry, and +30 Deflection? I hear ya bro. While they're at it, they need to give Ogre Bruisers + 200% base damage, +300 Crit Bonus, and a clicky stoneskin procs, which sucks up 3 attacks, re-castable every 5 seconds. Seriously though, the simple fact that you had to write "YES I AM BEING SERIOUS" in your post, means that deep down you know that your request is ridiculous. I'd also like to point out that in your list, you listen humans as being optimal for every class other than shaman. I think your bias is seriously skewing your viewpoint. EQ2 is a different world than EQ1. It is a world in which Ogres invented martial arts, and humans are only useful for calling back to their home city 10 minutes faster. </blockquote>Way to take my entire post, cut out most of it, and take one line completley out of context.

Bekkr

08-29-2009, 02:32 AM

<cite>PurrceyPurespirit007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE VP SAYS: Ok, we need to generate some quick capital, anyone have an idea?DEV_01: What about racial respects. We could add a potion to the Station Marketplace and make a killing.SOE VP SAYS: Not bad, but how do we get everyone to buy the potions?DEV_02: The players have been asking for balance. We can change all the skill sets for the sake of balance. Then get this...we can run the demigraphics and see what races play what classes and change it so 75% of the players have the wrong race/class combo. They will buy the repsect potions in droves!SOE VP: (rub$ hand$) BRILLIANT!/seriuoslySo in all fairness...will the racial respect be via in game plat fees like all the other repects or are you going to try to get player to pay real money?Also will there be one free respect when it goes live as is normal?</blockquote>Quoted for the sad, sad truth of it. These new racials really feel to me to be discouraging diversity - certain races are really only good choices for certain classes. While this was sort of true before, it was always kind of a non-issue by the time you'd gained a few levels. The philosophical direction of the current racials seem very bland to me.And yes, I have a personal interest here, as I'm the type of person that actually prefers "odd" racial choices for quasi-RP reasons. I really like the idea of the misfit gnome that feels s/he just has to be a shadowknight, or my slightly strange ogre with a love for music and cooking (dirge/provisioner). This is doable on live atm, with minor disadvantages that I can live with, and can be overcome with the right gear (for the most part). The new system seems to pretty well [Removed for Content] any racial choices not deemed correct by the powers that be, which I feel is a real shame.The fact that you could choose a race based on purely cosmetic or RP-esque reasons used to be one of the great things about this game, and it feels like that's not to be the case after this update.Also, Purrrcey: it's short for "respecialization", and so is "respec", without the T. Just FYI.

Arathy

08-29-2009, 02:38 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crabbok@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, I think the worst thing here is that I assume the Developers decided to make these changes without listening to it's player base on what would actually be best.Humans and Iksar should get racial traits that make them excel as Monks, which should include +30 Double Attack, Parry, and Deflection. Yes, I am being serious.</blockquote>So, you think the devs did not listen to it's playerbase because human monks (the race/class combo you play) don't have a whopping +30 Double Attack, +30 Parry, and +30 Deflection? I hear ya bro. While they're at it, they need to give Ogre Bruisers + 200% base damage, +300 Crit Bonus, and a clicky stoneskin procs, which sucks up 3 attacks, re-castable every 5 seconds. Seriously though, the simple fact that you had to write "YES I AM BEING SERIOUS" in your post, means that deep down you know that your request is ridiculous. I'd also like to point out that in your list, you listen humans as being optimal for every class other than shaman. I think your bias is seriously skewing your viewpoint. EQ2 is a different world than EQ1. It is a world in which Ogres invented martial arts, and humans are only useful for calling back to their home city 10 minutes faster. </blockquote>Way to take my entire post, cut out most of it, and take one line completley out of context.</blockquote>Stick to the lore forums, and leave the game change debate to people who actually understand how to play the game.

Cusashorn

08-29-2009, 03:40 AM

no.

scalzo

08-29-2009, 08:13 AM

<cite>Kigneer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>scalzo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just an idea I am tossing out there.Barbarian/Ogre Stun resistanceTroll/Iksar Fear resistanceDwarf/Froglok Stifle resistanceSeems pretty balanced for the primary fighter races right?</blockquote>It sort of pigeonholes what race goes with what class, though. As a Pally, stun resistence is nice, but stifle will kill me faster as I can't heal myself nor do anything but auto-attack (which for a low dps class, can be a death sentence as spell damage is suppose to compliment the melee damage for Paladins). So for a Pally, it basically forces Dwarf/Froglok, neither classes I will switch to for my main.</blockquote>Yeah but only 2 races Ogre/Barbarian kinda pigeonholes the rest of the fighter leaning races. A troll is larger than a Barbarian so it should be more resistant to a stun effect correct?Point is if you don't give the other fighter leaning races some perks then 98% of the tank's will be Ogre and Barbarian. And we all know a Dwarf is suppose to be tuff as nails and never show fear.

Efour EQ2

08-29-2009, 08:58 AM

Looks like a slight ratonga nerf here...Infact makes little sense to me - now officially every scout is going darkelf.

ScubaEtte

08-29-2009, 10:10 AM

<cite>Brom@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know you have been ignoring this question <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=242118">Aeralik</a> , but we want to know the answer. Since you have made "MAJOR CHANGES" to all races, when this goes live are we getting free race respect cards with one charge on it per character. </blockquote>still no answer on this question. Ive sen you post an answer that someone else had, why are you ignoring this question that everyone one would like to know the answer too. With so many MAJOR CHANGES theres only one answer that you should give us "YES"

Kigneer

08-29-2009, 10:22 AM

<cite>scalzo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kigneer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>scalzo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just an idea I am tossing out there.Barbarian/Ogre Stun resistanceTroll/Iksar Fear resistanceDwarf/Froglok Stifle resistanceSeems pretty balanced for the primary fighter races right?</blockquote>It sort of pigeonholes what race goes with what class, though. As a Pally, stun resistence is nice, but stifle will kill me faster as I can't heal myself nor do anything but auto-attack (which for a low dps class, can be a death sentence as spell damage is suppose to compliment the melee damage for Paladins). So for a Pally, it basically forces Dwarf/Froglok, neither classes I will switch to for my main.</blockquote>Yeah but only 2 races Ogre/Barbarian kinda pigeonholes the rest of the fighter leaning races. A troll is larger than a Barbarian so it should be more resistant to a stun effect correct?Point is if you don't give the other fighter leaning races some perks then 98% of the tank's will be Ogre and Barbarian. And we all know a Dwarf is suppose to be tuff as nails and never show fear.</blockquote>So what changed since these racial changes that makes it so hot and a "must have" now that 10s prevent stun pots before got a "Meh, only 10s"? Is it that the melee classes in their quest to max out dps, this will hurt them, especially if they're an Ogre Bezerker? Or can it be these hardcore raid guilds that's so particular can now discriminate due to race, on top of class, because 2 races can prevent being stunned ("Ogre Bezerker? Naw, we already have a tank. But thank you for asking")?In truth, races really shouldn't have any racial perks that affect gameplay to the extent folks are discriminated for it. It turns roleplaying or just playing the game into another example of real life race discrimination (this is a game not real life...hint, hint devs). Unlike in D+D and SP games, whatever race or class you rolled didn't matter as only you can discriminate yourself and friends were unlikely to hurt you. This just gives another excuse for some raid guild leader or raid leader to discriminate at the front door (then forcing folks to change their race by pots, and not enjoying the game as they're playing some Froglok MT surrounded by Barbarians/Trolls/Sarnaks/Orges [facing a line-of-sight problem]).Nice, just what we needed to shrink the active player pool more. More folks upset they can't play the race for their class, especially if they want to do more than solo/group runs.So many changes aren't good, as finally as folks get used to a style of play (or even appearance), the mechanics want to justify their jobs and change it again for "balance". If they haven't figured out the "balance" in 5 years, "balance" isn't the problem, game design is -- like too many fingers in the pie, a prescription for disaster in programming.

Mrsteatime

08-29-2009, 10:23 AM

<cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><div>RatongaInate:* Pick Pocket, casting 1s recast 5min* Sonicvision - really can someone explain to me why this even exists, this stupid skill needs to die. its no use. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />* Grants SKill, Disarm Trap* +5% SpeedUSES VERSION 3</div></blockquote><blockquote><div>Version 3 ~ This seems to be scout skill based; reguardless of class pickedAttributes (These Scale)* STR & WIS Combat (Unsure if these scale)* +5 ranged, +5 piercing* +2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack* +5 Ministration* 2% Beneficial/hostile casting Speed increase None Combat* 15% increase in stealth movement* Increases trigger count of poisons by 25%* +10% duration of tradeskilled drinks* Out of Combat power regen increased by 6 (this scales with level)Pools* Increase Power by 3%* Increase Power by 1% Increase Health by 2%Resists* Increased Noixous* Increased Arcane</div><div></div><div>The above is fine for Healers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></div></blockquote></blockquote>And please put back Pitiful Plea

Lexorin

08-29-2009, 11:44 AM

Rat racials are actually these -Ratonga Innate AbilitiesSonicvisionRobThieving Ways - Disarm TrapSwift Scurry - Increase runspeed by 5%Ratonga TraditionsAttribute+STR+INTCombat+5 Ranged, Piercing+2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack+5 Disruption, SubjugationIncrease casting speed of hostile spells byNoncombatIncrease stealth/invisible runspeed by 15%Increase trigger count of poisons by 25%Increase duration of tradeskilled potions by 15%Increase Out-of-Combat Power Regen by 9 (per tier)PoolsIncrease Max Power by 1%, Increase Max Health by 3%Increase Max Power by 3%ResistIncreaes Mitigation vs Noxious by 3 (240 at lvl 80)Increase Mitigation vs Elemental by 3 (240 at lvl 80)TradeskillsIncrease success chance by 2%Increase progress by 2%+5 MetalworkingReduce power cost of Alchemy by 10%+5 Sculpting Kinda wish the guy who originally posted them would come back and change them to what they really are. This misinformation is muddying the waters.

TheSpin

08-29-2009, 12:00 PM

<cite>Lexorin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rat racials are actually these -Ratonga Innate AbilitiesSonicvisionRobThieving Ways - Disarm TrapSwift Scurry - Increase runspeed by 5%Ratonga TraditionsAttribute+STR+INTCombat+5 Ranged, Piercing+2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack+5 Disruption, SubjugationIncrease casting speed of hostile spells byNoncombatIncrease stealth/invisible runspeed by 15%Increase trigger count of poisons by 25%Increase duration of tradeskilled potions by 15%Increase Out-of-Combat Power Regen by 9 (per tier)PoolsIncrease Max Power by 1%, Increase Max Health by 3%Increase Max Power by 3%ResistIncreaes Mitigation vs Noxious by 3 (240 at lvl 80)Increase Mitigation vs Elemental by 3 (240 at lvl 80)TradeskillsIncrease success chance by 2%Increase progress by 2%+5 MetalworkingReduce power cost of Alchemy by 10%+5 Sculpting Kinda wish the guy who originally posted them would come back and change them to what they really are. This misinformation is muddying the waters.</blockquote>These small changes give me hope for the revamp. Looks like it isn't just 100% cut and paste of 1 of only 4 different tables to apply to each class.

Gaige

08-29-2009, 12:52 PM

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote>These small changes give me hope for the revamp. Looks like it isn't just 100% cut and paste of 1 of only 4 different tables to apply to each class.</blockquote>Uh, gnome and ratonga are almost exactly the same. It also sucks that neither have deaggros.

Gungo

08-29-2009, 01:10 PM

<cite>Bekkr@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PurrceyPurespirit007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE VP SAYS: Ok, we need to generate some quick capital, anyone have an idea?DEV_01: What about racial respects. We could add a potion to the Station Marketplace and make a killing.SOE VP SAYS: Not bad, but how do we get everyone to buy the potions?DEV_02: The players have been asking for balance. We can change all the skill sets for the sake of balance. Then get this...we can run the demigraphics and see what races play what classes and change it so 75% of the players have the wrong race/class combo. They will buy the repsect potions in droves!SOE VP: (rub$ hand$) BRILLIANT!/seriuoslySo in all fairness...will the racial respect be via in game plat fees like all the other repects or are you going to try to get player to pay real money?Also will there be one free respect when it goes live as is normal?</blockquote>Quoted for the sad, sad truth of it. These new racials really feel to me to be discouraging diversity - certain races are really only good choices for certain classes. While this was sort of true before, it was always kind of a non-issue by the time you'd gained a few levels. The philosophical direction of the current racials seem very bland to me.And yes, I have a personal interest here, as I'm the type of person that actually prefers "odd" racial choices for quasi-RP reasons. I really like the idea of the misfit gnome that feels s/he just has to be a shadowknight, or my slightly strange ogre with a love for music and cooking (dirge/provisioner). This is doable on live atm, with minor disadvantages that I can live with, and can be overcome with the right gear (for the most part). The new system seems to pretty well [Removed for Content] any racial choices not deemed correct by the powers that be, which I feel is a real shame.The fact that you could choose a race based on purely cosmetic or RP-esque reasons used to be one of the great things about this game, and it feels like that's not to be the case after this update.Also, Purrrcey: it's short for "respecialization", and so is "respec", without the T. Just FYI.</blockquote>How come there are so many slow people lately posting in testing feedback. Chew on this for a sec. If racials are more balanced now on test then they are on live and even less combat oriented on test. Then how are they forcing people NOW to change races.Hint it doesnt.They could of released the racial change potion and THEN changed the racial traits if they wanted to make the most money. Because then people would of bought the racial potion and change to the race they wanted/feel is best currently on live. ANd then have to buy another potion to change to their new race after the revamp.

Efour EQ2

08-29-2009, 01:23 PM

Seriously who will change race cos of some crappy little thing +5 piercing ...woot etc...butNo pitiful plea... waaaaaattt why no.. thats nasty...Ratongas should get thsi back... seriosuly.it suits em so much cowardly little eastern european back stabbing scumbags they are.Rationga for life

Bayne

08-29-2009, 03:55 PM

I don't know why SoE took out all the racial deagros, but please put them back in the game.When the game launched one of the main selling points were Any Race, Any Class, no negatives to any combo. It was just flavor. I made my race/class combos because that is what was advertised. SoE changed that a few years ago and I hated it, but I endured. Now I'm use to what I have... and now SoE is taking abilities away and shoving stuff I don't need or want to me. Fine. I will endure again... but please leave the racial deagros in game. It was the only benifit from the last racial respec SoE gave me and now they are taking that way as well. And there is no logic behind it either. You can't use an argument like no incombat abilities when you still have stun immunity.Please, give us back our racial Deagros.

MalkorGodchyld

08-29-2009, 06:18 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MalkorGodchyld wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how the heck did Freeport not even get a mage/priest race combo??? Just ridiculous... I was semi excited after seeing the update notes but the implementation is horrendous. Jeez you guys...you can do better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I realize that you wont make all the money you wanna make if you make the packages optional but c'mon...step up your game</blockquote>I basically left them in the same kind of categories they were using previously. Arasai and Dark elf were previously scout/mage and I didn't want to disrupt things too much for people who had based selection off the previous traits.</blockquote>The inherent stats of a Dark Elf at character creation are (INT & WIS) ie...the path of the priest or mage. Obviously any race can be any class but at EQ2 launch the inherent racial stats were all we had to go on in terms of picking a race that best suited your archetype. DE's share the same inherent stats as their High Elf counter parts and thats not by accident. It makes no sense why Dark Elves would all of a sudden be scout focused like ratonga's. So i wonder if any Devs just so happen to play Dark Elf scouts? Hmm... or maybe the initial direction of some races just got jumbled over time with all the revamps etc. Who knows! Im done posting about it...guess im starting to lose faith in the whole "feed-back" concept.Mariusx

BrianFWilson

08-29-2009, 06:36 PM

The fix to the racial imbalance is to take away the perceived "best" races abilities and then give some mediocre abilitys? With what is being taken away (specifically the race CAs and deaggros) why don't you just take it all away? None of the races get any bonuses and boom!! there is the balance you are trying so hard for? Fixes it for everyone doesn't it. That does seem to be the way of develpopment lately. Chanters underpowered? Nerf another class. Avatar gear to strong? Nerf it. Races unbalanced? Well let's follow convention. Heck it really doesn't even take development time or expense to just make all the races exactly the same. Or maybe there is a solution that could actually keep players happy. If a race has an overpowered ability perhaps there could be a questline that gave you access to that ability, ie if my human mage studied with and worked with euridites long enough he would learn enough to gain their casting speed bonus. There would have to be a limit to keep people from getting them all but it seems something of a solution that could keep to the lore. If I spent enough time living with cowardly rats I would eventually learn to mimic thier "Pitiful Plea". Now we have a solution that not only nerfs nothing but opens up more options character development wise and gives RP possibilities as well. I've worked really hard the last 6 months or so picking and attaining gear for my Templar. Part of this was my dps gear which has a lot of +CA bonuses. This is actually of use to me because I have 3 CAs. 2 from AA and one that is a racial ability. Having 3 versus just 2 is a world of difference. With just the 2 being melee oriented becomes a much poorer choice. Taking away my third CA breaks this play option for me and makes all the gear I've spent time attaing it to max my melee go to waste. Having and finding the roads less taken is a great part of the game. Please don't remove options from the game.

Maroger

08-29-2009, 06:54 PM

I think they would be better off NOT TO MAKE THIS CHANGE. Just leave the abilities the way they were. There are too many useless, mediocare abilities handed out.This is a change NOT WORTH DOING. Go back to the drawing board and erase the changes and leave them alone.

schizolic

08-29-2009, 07:02 PM

ok, i see the tank package has things for heal casters and spell casters, but nothing specific for the tanks that dont have heals or spells. yay. i see ministration, subjugation, disruption... casting speed of benificial and hostile spells, but nothing for combat arts or slashing/crushing/piercing. guess devs want all tanks to be sk/pallies.

kcirrot

08-29-2009, 07:27 PM

In general I like these new racial abilities. In a min-max context you are making certain races favored, but I can live with that. I was planning on changing races with my main for cosmetic reasons, but I would be happy with either.

Efour EQ2

08-29-2009, 11:16 PM

At the end of the day lets be honest... this will sell a few hundred race respec tokens and thats a few $1000 for nothing...PVPers will crap thier pants with joy and all swap to "free tracking" races. Few thousand more $$$ for a weeks workAt least give, ill use ratonga scout line for example, +5 slash and pierce skill..... its supid little oversights like that that really wind me up. It wont hurt anything and it wont break anything, I play brig my mythicals a slasher.... think about it. Sure my OF will be pierce but still..What an insult to give Ratongas disarm trap - who even cares if the trap is disarmed now !?!? this isnt 2004 anymore where you got instagibbed. Id imagine the majority of ratonga lovers are scouts anyway no ??Give the choice of racial deaggro ??? They dont have to pick it then... Why not give it in place of something else pretty useful then u have to make a tough choice..Until the Hate system is working with a tank revamp these losing racial deaggros make a ton of difference.I dunno why you dont make 6-8 sets of generic ones and let people choose 2 from each. Then min maxers will be happy and Any race can have a go at any class (with very minor changes)Your games way way down the line now - the playerbase is pretty dedicated, new players wont know any difference anyway..!!!1im really tired. :OMAGE/SCOUT ~ INT/STR ~ Arasai | Dark Elf | Gnome | Ratonga <---- 3 evil races 1 neutral and assassin is the only class that "barely" gives a toss or has any worth it CAs about ranged combat after a "ranger" Combat:<ul><li> +Ranged and MELE (give both in 09 ) for whatever tiny bit of a [Removed for Content] it means. </li></ul>

Purrcey

08-30-2009, 12:36 AM

GUNGO WROTE:"How come there are so many slow people lately posting in testing feedback. Chew on this for a sec. If racials are more balanced now on test then they are on live and even less combat oriented on test. Then how are they forcing people NOW to change races.Hint it doesnt.They could of released the racial change potion and THEN changed the racial traits if they wanted to make the most money. Because then people would of bought the racial potion and change to the race they wanted/feel is best currently on live. ANd then have to buy another potion to change to their new race after the revamp."Talk about slow...The problem is not the balance, The problem is SOE is force pairing race/class combos. We cannot respec our classes but only our race to match our class. If you you are one of the people that chose a race you wanted and now that race isnt paired to the class SOE thinks it should you are going to be even more unbalanced that before this change. You may be playing a tank race but be a wizard,,,oops guess you will have to buy the $25 potion.Plain and simple the choices should be in order:RACE > Class Package Choice(s) > 10-70 selections....each independent of the other. The actual race traits and the differnet packages look fine to me if not a little bland.

Xalmat

08-30-2009, 12:38 AM

No one's forcing anyone to be any race/class combo.So some race/class combos are clearly better than other race/class combos. So what? Is that actually going to stop you from playing the game?At the end of the day, is it going to MATTER? No, it won't. None of the racials are so powerful that gear doesn't make up the difference. And what differences exist are so slight that it isn't significant.I have a Fae Zerker, and Fae are getting screwed in the tank racial department (although they were never that good to begin with). Does that mean I'm suddenly going to stop playing it? No. I don't intend to change races either.

Purrcey

08-30-2009, 12:44 AM

Perfect example Sess. Your Fae tank will be inferior and if you want a balanced tank you will have to change races. No reason with these changes you couldnt stay a Fae AND get the tank skill sets...except SOE wont give you the choice.If you dont think racials will matter then you dont understand the possibilites. So say you are going to give up the +5 to def skill since you are staying a Fae, but say you tank is capped on Def. You just lost a whole slot there that you could drop the def gear and put in something else. This is gonna mean more that most think...I hope you enjoy those scout/priest skills sets on your Fae Zerker.

Cusashorn

08-30-2009, 01:05 AM

<cite>Efour@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>PVPers will crap thier pants with joy and all swap to "free tracking" races. Few thousand more $$$ for a weeks work</blockquote>The devs stated this will not be the case. Racial Tracking won't work on player characterss on the PVP servers.

GrunEQ

08-30-2009, 03:34 AM

Everyone should have a choice of all skill sets. It really makes no sense to be so limiting. Or like a previous poster suggested, go back to not having the racials, and everyone will be equal again.

Noaani

08-30-2009, 03:46 AM

<cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone should have a choice of all skill sets. It really makes no sense to be so limiting. Or like a previous poster suggested, go back to not having the racials, and everyone will be equal again.</blockquote>When the game released, racial traits were about on par with a top end, non raid item in terms of the bonus it would give you over someone of a different race.I don't see that as being any different with what is on test.

Narisa

08-30-2009, 05:35 AM

ArasaiInate:* Ultravision* Reduces Max Falling Speed* increases speed by 50%, casting 1s, recast 5min* GlideWhat the hell, are we losing our wings or something?? Why do we need to reduce falling speed with feather fall? -.- Furthermore, why would we need to increase the falling speed when you can do that by just hoding the stupid space bar. You don't need a stupid racial ability to do that. We're also losing the deagro, our lovely crit buffs boosters and run speed boosts, whywhwhywhywhywhywhywhywhy???What is wrong with the current set up of racial abilities, why do they have to change?Honestly, has anyone thought this through?I will put this in red, to express my anger and rage!AND BOLDDDDDD

Xalmat

08-30-2009, 05:46 AM

<cite>PurrceyPurespirit007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perfect example Sess. Your Fae tank will be inferior and if you want a balanced tank you will have to change races. No reason with these changes you couldnt stay a Fae AND get the tank skill sets...except SOE wont give you the choice.If you dont think racials will matter then you dont understand the possibilites. So say you are going to give up the +5 to def skill since you are staying a Fae, but say you tank is capped on Def. You just lost a whole slot there that you could drop the def gear and put in something else. This is gonna mean more that most think...I hope you enjoy those scout/priest skills sets on your Fae Zerker.</blockquote>So you're saying I should stop playing my Zerker because Fae are inferior to other races. And because Fae are inferior to other races, no one will want to group with it.

Narisa

08-30-2009, 05:48 AM

Oops, I read the changes as a change to tradition, so ignore my last post. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Still not happy with the changes, but not as mad as I was!Sorry about that.

carpe_caminus

08-30-2009, 06:25 AM

I play a Halfling Fury. These changes are mostly worthless for me, and in a few places are taking away from what I already have.First off, this tells me I should have rolled a scout instead of a Druid if I wanted to be a Halfling... nevermind that Halflings were traditionally Druids.We're losing usefull stuff like Protection of the Jumjum to get stuff like Pickpocket.The one thing I actually REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE about the Halfling pack, is my Fury will finally get Tracking. I've been wanting tracking on my druid since launch. We could track in EQ1 and should be able to here as well.The problem is, now my Fury is stuck with a Scout package for the other racials. This just sucks beyond words. The one Offensive ability I had from my Racials is gone (also gave a small debuff which is why it was worthwhile), and I've also lost Heal Crit in favor of just an insignificant ministration boost. And why, just why did you feel the need to make the Food and Drink duration buffs SEPERATE? Now I have to waste a racial point on something that used to come packaged with the other one.To make matters worse, this new system seems to actually be less "racial" than the ones in the past. What I mean is, it's less immersive and too generic. "Oh gee, that Fae has all the same abilities as my Halfling, oh so does that Ratonga, How unique I feel!" This is actually taking flavor away from the game, not adding it.In my opinion, the best system for this would be simple, Either leave it as is on Live, or let us choose what package we want. The Base Racials aren't that far off from the originals (with some glaring examples to the contrary), but the archetypal packages are just going to screw some players over. Now people will regret having chosen the race they did at launch, realizing that their "race wasn't built for that class" whereas is it is currently yeah you can get some small benefit to particular classes but not enough to make you want to choose a different class.EDIT: I forgot to mention... Why oh WHY don't Halflings have either some sort of Racial speed boost, or Safe fall? I mean seriously... just look at those FEET. I mean even Dwarves get run speed... how does that make sense?

Zagbab_Dorfbasher

08-30-2009, 07:03 AM

First of all, yeay for Ouka's posts!Then on to the issue at hand. I'm not surprised at the lack of imagination and general crappyness of this "revamp". I learned quickly that EQ2 isn't like EQLive, but instead a beacon of political correctness and equality *throws up a bit*Personally I'm all for inequality. I absolutely hate it that all races are for the most part (ignoring the extremes of min/maxing) equally good at all classes. I laugh when I read someone saying they like to play an odd race/class combo for the extra challenge or flavor or whatever, and then in the same post demanding that they should be equally good as a more logical race/class combo.I know I'm never gonna get what I want, but here goes:Ogres (and maybe Barbarians) should get stun immunity (or at least a % chance to resist).Iksar and Trolls should get a fear immunity (or % chance to resist).Tracking for the "beast" races, as well as wood elves (and make it so this enhances the range of track for those who play scouts).Equipment mending for dwarves.Foraging abilities for the appropriate races (I know this will mostly be fluff as foraged food and drink shouldn't be as good as tradeskilled ones, but I liked the grubbs I pulled out of my pants with my EQLive troll hehe).Swimming bonus (higher cap/speed or something) for Iksar and Frogloks. Underwater breathing should be avoided, but give Iksar/Frogloks/Trolls increased breath to stay under longer.IN-COMBAT regen for Iksar and Trolls (out of combat is about as useful as uhmmm, well they're useless).Remove slow fall from all races cept those with wings! Instead give slow fall buffs or something to appropriate classes (like Dead Man Floating or whatever the necro one was called in EQLive).I'd like the "vision" abilities to be permanent and generally recieve an overhaul. I know you can just use the nightvision button in Profit or whatever to see in the dark so will take examples from EQLive for this one. Back in the day playing a noob human with no particular vision enhancement at night could be a real pain, cause guess what, you couldn't see in the dark. While races with infravision (like the troll I played most) got a slight enhancement (think a slight reddish glow on mobs as well) and ultravision races got a good enhancement to seeing in the dark (like dark elves). Getting a clicky effect first and foremost doesn't make much sense, and then the horrible colored mess we get as an "enhancement" is just silly.Basically what I'm saying is make races matter! It's silly that a gnome is as well suited to being a guardian as an ogre, or an ogre being as well suited to being a wizard as a gnome (to turn the tables). Sure this will result in some people wanting to change race in order to max their potential, but personally I'd not do that cause first of all I chose races that logically fitted the class I chose for them, and second of all I ain't no crazy min/maxer, instead I try to make the most of what I have chosen. Heck even in EQLive I think gnomes could be warriors, and some actually were, not EVERY warrior was an Ogre or Troll cause of stun immunity/regen. Just cause some races would be better doesn't mean you are forced to play as them. I'm ok with all races being able to play all classes, it can be fun, but the way they have implemented it is just silly, give race choice some real flavor! And I don't care if some become overpowered in some classes, it makes sense, politically correct equality does NOT make sense, and detracts alot from the roleplaying aspect of the game.That being said, with the 24 person limit in raids EQ2 is ALOT different than EQLive and does in fact force a bit of min/maxing (at least for raiding), but I think class would be the bigger decider over class/race combo (and only the most 1337/uber guilds would enforce certain combos).Anyways, that's a few of my thoughts, could prolly blurt out ALOT more suggestions for racial abilities but have a feeling I'll prolly be flamed for just this little snippet so not gonna bother <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />RACIAL INEQUALITY IN 09!!!

Bekkr

08-30-2009, 09:12 AM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>How come there are so many slow people lately posting in testing feedback. Chew on this for a sec. If racials are more balanced now on test then they are on live and even less combat oriented on test. Then how are they forcing people NOW to change races.Hint it doesnt.They could of released the racial change potion and THEN changed the racial traits if they wanted to make the most money. Because then people would of bought the racial potion and change to the race they wanted/feel is best currently on live. ANd then have to buy another potion to change to their new race after the revamp.</blockquote>You use phrases like "could of" and "would of" and I'm slow? That's priceless. Please learn to read. I haven't said racials are more balanced on test, and I don't care whether they are or not. You've obviously missed the point of my post completely, so I'm not sure why you've bothered to quote it, other than to call me names.Have a lovely day, won't you?

Aurel

08-30-2009, 10:01 AM

<cite>Narisa wrote:</cite><blockquote>What the hell, are we losing our wings or something?? Why do we need to reduce falling speed with feather fall? -.- Furthermore, why would we need to increase the falling speed when you can do that by just hoding the stupid space bar. You don't need a stupid racial ability to do that. We're also losing the deagro, our lovely crit buffs boosters and run speed boosts, whywhwhywhywhywhywhywhywhy???What is wrong with the current set up of racial abilities, why do they have to change?Honestly, has anyone thought this through?I will put this in red, to express my anger and rage!AND BOLDDDDDD</blockquote>I took the liberty of quoting you without your bold, underlined, red rage, because frankly it hurts my eyes, which to me translates as you reaching out and poking me in the eyes, and since I kind of don't like that, I just slapped your hand away. Hoowah! *ninja pose*Anyway. If you load up a fae/arasai on a live server, you should see that they have the Featherfall innate already. For their wings to work, the devs give them Featherfall. The featherfall IS how they are currently... featherfalling.As far as the spacebar thing... *tries it* ... I don't think I know what you're talking about, 'cause I just jumped off something holding the spacebar down, and died. It was quite painful, too. d:Personally, I welcome these changes. People are acting like they're life-or-death... which, IMHO, is not how it should be. I wish the changes didn't affect your class at all and were more cosmetic, but I guess SOE isn't as much of an iron-tyrant as I am. (; Again, IMHO, the bonus of having one race over another should be purely cosmetic. I like how Dark Elves look, so I made one. I [EDIT: ... posted before I finished this sentence] understand that lore-wise, some races should be better suited for different class archetypes, but I also think it just causes more trouble than its worth, since everyone has a different opinion on how to make it work in their favor... Don't get me wrong, I think Dark Elves and necromancy should go hand-in-hand, so I'm happy that one of my packages will be mage-oriented. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be just dandy if there were no "packages" at all...

denmom

08-30-2009, 10:36 AM

Okay, after reading over the racials for the toons I play, I have to chime in.I really like the offensive racials. After reading in this thread and speaking to friends, we all use them as well as the dethreats. A guildee who plays a Ratonga Conjy uses Pitiful Plea quite often.My Warden is a Half Elf. I use Piercing Stab every fight, sneaking it in against triple ups and named. When I raid, I sneak it in against the epics. I don't use the dethreat of Misfits Trickery often, but I really like having it as a "just in case".My Paladin is a Ratonga, and due to being a tank I didn't take Pitiful Plea. However, I do use Poisonous Bite quite often. Every time it's cycled up. I tend to use it when I run out of CAs/Spells, and that happens quite often. It's a nice extra attack to have when the arsenal is cycling back up.My Swash is a Ratonga as well. I don't use Pititful Plea with her since I tend to tank with her much of the time. But, as with the Paladin, I use Poisonous Bite when its cycled up.My latest alt is a Ranger, also a Ratonga. And I have Poisonous Bite with her as well.I don't understand why the offensives were removed. Given how often many used them, it seems they're a very wanted and used feature.Please keep the offensives and the dethreats. They're too valuable to far too many customers to remove.

Lexorin

08-30-2009, 12:32 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PurrceyPurespirit007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perfect example Sess. Your Fae tank will be inferior and if you want a balanced tank you will have to change races. No reason with these changes you couldnt stay a Fae AND get the tank skill sets...except SOE wont give you the choice.If you dont think racials will matter then you dont understand the possibilites. So say you are going to give up the +5 to def skill since you are staying a Fae, but say you tank is capped on Def. You just lost a whole slot there that you could drop the def gear and put in something else. This is gonna mean more that most think...I hope you enjoy those scout/priest skills sets on your Fae Zerker.</blockquote>So you're saying I should stop playing my Zerker because Fae are inferior to other races. And because Fae are inferior to other races, no one will want to group with it.</blockquote>It's not important for average groups. It doesn't matter for casual playing. The problem is with raiding and needing to get every bonus you can. Most raid guilds don't need/want more then 2 tanks anyway so if my rat tank is at the same tier of equipment as an ogre tank that ogre tank is going to be slightly better then me and then I don't raid anymore. Sure, we both have the same defense, but he got to replace one or more items for stuff that gave him extra hate, extra double attack, extra +crit or any whatever. So, were both capped for defense and parry but he has an easier time holding agro or whatever. If we geared up exactly the same then my mitigation and avoidance would be lower and I would not be tanking anymore due to a slight but visible difference in stats. At 80th for me there is really very little for me to do outside of tanking and if I can't do that anymore because of 5 points of defense then I'd be a pretty sad rat. And I love being a rat, I don't do much roll-play or anything so this is my only real concession to RP and If I lose that it removes a fun portion of the game for me.With these changes my choices are -1. Change my race to a "tank" race.2. Stop tanking raids for my guild.I'm not to thrilled with either choice. If I go with #2 I may as well cancel my account. So I may as well go with #1 which kills the last vestiges of RP left for me in this "role playing" game.Hell, I already have guild mates asking me what race I'll be changing to should this go live.

Landiin

08-30-2009, 01:04 PM

making a fae tank is about like someone rolling a brawler to MT.. just saying..

zhiDarkivel

08-30-2009, 01:07 PM

Adding my voice in to those disappointed by the Kerran (and other scout race) racial innate bonuses. My two kerrans are a dirge and a brigand -- so both of them are only getting the benefit of half their innate ability list? That seems a bit unfair for a race that was one of the prime scout choices from the beginning.

Gungo

08-30-2009, 01:12 PM

<cite>PurrceyPurespirit007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>GUNGO WROTE:"How come there are so many slow people lately posting in testing feedback. Chew on this for a sec. If racials are more balanced now on test then they are on live and even less combat oriented on test. Then how are they forcing people NOW to change races.Hint it doesnt.They could of released the racial change potion and THEN changed the racial traits if they wanted to make the most money. Because then people would of bought the racial potion and change to the race they wanted/feel is best currently on live. ANd then have to buy another potion to change to their new race after the revamp."Talk about slow...The problem is not the balance, The problem is SOE is force pairing race/class combos. We cannot respec our classes but only our race to match our class. If you you are one of the people that chose a race you wanted and now that race isnt paired to the class SOE thinks it should you are going to be even more unbalanced that before this change. You may be playing a tank race but be a wizard,,,oops guess you will have to buy the $25 potion.Plain and simple the choices should be in order:RACE > Class Package Choice(s) > 10-70 selections....each independent of the other. The actual race traits and the differnet packages look fine to me if not a little bland.</blockquote>Except the racials on live now are even more race/class biased then on test. In fact they removed almost all of the combat oreinted abilites. In fact i see more people complaining about the new racials being bland and irregardless then i do people complaining about being class/race biased. Although i see both complaints which is hilarious in the fact it can ONLY be one or the other and most people posting can't seem to make a distinction on that.plain and simple racial choices on test have less impact on class choice then racial choices on live.edit: Personally I felt races should of been much more class/race biased then they are, but regardless i knew people would whine about any change.

Gungo

08-30-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Bekkr@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>How come there are so many slow people lately posting in testing feedback. Chew on this for a sec. If racials are more balanced now on test then they are on live and even less combat oriented on test. Then how are they forcing people NOW to change races.Hint it doesnt.They could of released the racial change potion and THEN changed the racial traits if they wanted to make the most money. Because then people would of bought the racial potion and change to the race they wanted/feel is best currently on live. ANd then have to buy another potion to change to their new race after the revamp.</blockquote>You use phrases like "could of" and "would of" and I'm slow? That's priceless. Please learn to read. I haven't said racials are more balanced on test, and I don't care whether they are or not. You've obviously missed the point of my post completely, so I'm not sure why you've bothered to quote it, other than to call me names.Have a lovely day, won't you?</blockquote>"Could of" and "would of" was detailing a scenario of what they could have done if they wanted to go with your tin foil hat conspiracy theory about making money with the race revamp potions. But instead of discussing the topic you felt the need to show us how special you are.

Cusashorn

08-30-2009, 01:21 PM

<cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>making a fae tank is about like someone rolling a brawler to MT.. just saying..</blockquote>Ouch. That hurts, man.

Lexorin

08-30-2009, 01:32 PM

I don't think SOE is doing this whole thing to shill race change pots. I just think they have a fundamental misunderstanding of the value of certain stats to certain classes. Most notably def/parry to tanks. I don't think any healer really gives a crap about +5 ministration, nor casters +5 subjugation. Maybe I'm wrong?

Maroger

08-30-2009, 02:02 PM

I have casters including both a conjuror and necro - +5 submission means nothing to me.I am angry at losing my Sarnak's breath weapons - I thought it was cool and was a reason I picked a Sarnak. And they added to the class to make that class "cool" and now for no reason it is GONE.As a DE we got shafted to - we received a worth innate ability called - anyway it teleports caster to friend/group member in zone - that sucks if you solo it is worthless. Couldn't they have at least included a location instead of making it worthless for soloers. I would rather have Shadow Slip back.I think they need to go back to the drawing board again -- or else JUST LEAVE IT ALONE AND DO NOT TOUCH.

Dragowulf

08-30-2009, 02:02 PM

The way I see it is that I think every race should have their own 2 unique combat ability as well, whether it be a buff, debuff, two of one, or both. Give each race either some Crit or DBL Atk, as well as some form of +DMG. Give everyone something unique. No halfassed crap that gives equality. Every race should have sort of uniqeness of their own that defines that particular race, now all the races are pretty equal and the same. Theres no reason why Gnome Assassins should be just as good as Ratonga Assassins. Ratonga are pretty much a Scout race, while Gnomes are a Mage race. They should have their uniqeness be somewhat catored to those specific archtypes.My Erudite got these taken away and sort of replaced:Arc of Lightning - AE Magic DMGCasting Fury - 5% to Casting Speed, 3% to Max Power (They nerfed it by 3% Casting Speed, so now it's 2%)Erud's Teachings - 2% to DMG Spell Crit Chance, 5 DisruptionWard of Glyph - Wards like 1000 points of DMGSo they changed or took away those to give us:Water Breathing - W T FTeleport to friend (WITH A 12 FLIPPIN HOUR RECAST?!@%#&%%^#) - PointlessHeal and Spell amount for 1.2 ( per tier) - So what is this, like a +9.6 to spell/heal DMG? Wow, raises my DMG by a whole 9.6 for each spell, OMIGOSH! - POINTLESSCasting speed increase for beneficial/hostile spells by 2% (Again, it was 5% for all spells) - Nerf5% Mount Speed - Crap20% to tradeskilled drink duration - Wow I get to save a few gold pieces - pointless20% to potion duration - Ehh, this is probably the best new thing this revamp has to offer - SADEverything else is pretty much worthless to me, which is why I didn't mention it. Overall I feel like a Erudite Coercer is useless, I can be pretty much any of the other races now and they're still pretty [Removed for Content] comprable. The reason why I made one is because I wanted the BEST race for a Coercer.

ScubaEtte

08-30-2009, 09:24 PM

click happy

ScubaEtte

08-30-2009, 09:24 PM

double post

ScubaEtte

08-30-2009, 09:24 PM

<cite>Brom@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brom@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know you have been ignoring this question <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=242118">Aeralik</a> , but we want to know the answer. Since you have made "MAJOR CHANGES" to all races, when this goes live are we getting free race respect cards with one charge on it per character. </blockquote>still no answer on this question. Ive sen you post an answer that someone else had, why are you ignoring this question that everyone one would like to know the answer too. With so many MAJOR CHANGES theres only one answer that you should give us "YES"</blockquote> still waiting on a response.......

Korrupt

08-30-2009, 09:25 PM

we all are...

Mos

08-30-2009, 09:49 PM

Should they? Of course. Will they? Nope.The majority of the playerbase with race change intrest will be one and done. I just don't see them letting that much revenue slip through their fingers. I'd ask that we get one free racial respec per account, instead. That way our mains can take advantage at least and our alts can fund SOE's latest money grab. In my opinion, we have a far better chance of this than a per character respec.- angry half elf

Draco the Grey

08-30-2009, 10:00 PM

I have no idea why people are so up in arms over minor details like what race gives bonuses to what classes. The bonuses themselves are mostly terrible to the point that it really doesn't matter what race you choose. It's silly to think you need to have a race re-spec due to these changes, when race will become even more meaningless than it was before. To be honest, most of my characters will be marginally worse off if these changes go through.

soibit

08-30-2009, 10:57 PM

even if they do offer a free race respec, i dont want to not be a tonga but im scarred i wont be a good tank.

Aeralik

08-30-2009, 11:00 PM

<cite>Lexorin wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not important for average groups. It doesn't matter for casual playing. The problem is with raiding and needing to get every bonus you can. Most raid guilds don't need/want more then 2 tanks anyway so if my rat tank is at the same tier of equipment as an ogre tank that ogre tank is going to be slightly better then me and then I don't raid anymore.</blockquote>If you look at the abilities on live now, the ogre has a bigger advantage over a ratonga than what is on test. I don't see this true today and I don't see this becoming true after the change. If a raid needs an ogre over a ratonga, fae, or whatever then the raid really needs to rethink its strategies.

Korrupt

08-30-2009, 11:02 PM

Why respond to that and ignore the question everyone is asking?

Dragowulf

08-30-2009, 11:20 PM

Stop hounding him. He doesn't have the authority to make those decisions.

Korrupt

08-30-2009, 11:27 PM

didnt say he did, but someone would know one way or the other. Or if they are undecided they could tell us that too. It's just rude to blatantly ignore us.

ShadowMunkie

08-30-2009, 11:37 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you look at the abilities on live now, the ogre has a bigger advantage over a ratonga than what is on test. I don't see this true today and I don't see this becoming true after the change. If a raid needs an ogre over a ratonga, fae, or whatever then the raid really needs to rethink its strategies.</blockquote>So Aeralik the question begs. Are you going to give all races a racial dehate so that those that are loosing the racial dehate won't loose anything? This could go under the "Combat Traditions".

Bratface

08-31-2009, 12:14 AM

<cite>Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The way I see it is that I think every race should have their own 2 unique combat ability as well, whether it be a buff, debuff, two of one, or both. Give each race either some Crit or DBL Atk, as well as some form of +DMG. Give everyone something unique. No halfassed crap that gives equality. Every race should have sort of uniqeness of their own that defines that particular race, now all the races are pretty equal and the same. Theres no reason why Gnome Assassins should be just as good as Ratonga Assassins. Ratonga are pretty much a Scout race, while Gnomes are a Mage race. They should have their uniqeness be somewhat catored to those specific archtypes.My Erudite got these taken away and sort of replaced:Arc of Lightning - AE Magic DMGCasting Fury - 5% to Casting Speed, 3% to Max Power (They nerfed it by 3% Casting Speed, so now it's 2%)Erud's Teachings - 2% to DMG Spell Crit Chance, 5 DisruptionWard of Glyph - Wards like 1000 points of DMGSo they changed or took away those to give us:Water Breathing - W T FTeleport to friend (WITH A 12 FLIPPIN HOUR RECAST?!@%#&%%^#) - PointlessHeal and Spell amount for 1.2 ( per tier) - So what is this, like a +9.6 to spell/heal DMG? Wow, raises my DMG by a whole 9.6 for each spell, OMIGOSH! - POINTLESSCasting speed increase for beneficial/hostile spells by 2% (Again, it was 5% for all spells) - Nerf5% Mount Speed - Crap20% to tradeskilled drink duration - Wow I get to save a few gold pieces - pointless20% to potion duration - Ehh, this is probably the best new thing this revamp has to offer - SADEverything else is pretty much worthless to me, which is why I didn't mention it. Overall I feel like a Erudite Coercer is useless, I can be pretty much any of the other races now and they're still pretty [Removed for Content] comprable. The reason why I made one is because I wanted the BEST race for a Coercer.</blockquote>I have an Erudite as well, she is a Conj/Sage/Tinker so the Water Breathing and Teleport are useless to me as is the rest of the stuff that is offered.Honestly after going over most of my toons I find that there isn't much in the way for my race/class combinations.I have a DE/Templar/Woodworker.... Nothing for her, and it's pretty much the same for all my toons, the racials are useless to the class that they are.

Kasar

08-31-2009, 12:21 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's pretty much the same for all my toons, the racials are useless to the class that they are.</blockquote>I kinda liked my Kerran guardian having a deaggro and being able to outrun most of the group training to the door. Safe fall would've saved many, many deaths though.

Lexorin

08-31-2009, 12:46 AM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lexorin wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not important for average groups. It doesn't matter for casual playing. The problem is with raiding and needing to get every bonus you can. Most raid guilds don't need/want more then 2 tanks anyway so if my rat tank is at the same tier of equipment as an ogre tank that ogre tank is going to be slightly better then me and then I don't raid anymore.</blockquote>If you look at the abilities on live now, the ogre has a bigger advantage over a ratonga than what is on test. I don't see this true today and I don't see this becoming true after the change. If a raid needs an ogre over a ratonga, fae, or whatever then the raid really needs to rethink its strategies.</blockquote>Yeah, that's true, Thanks for reminding me that I'll always be second fiddle to an Ogre! So... what happened to racial equality and all that?

Ashlian

08-31-2009, 02:14 AM

I don't care what race had what in EQ1 or could be what. I played EQ1 until EQ2 came out, and the ability to have a character of any race be any class was a SELLING point.What I do care about is customization. That would be MY ability to customize my character, not the DEV'S ability to customize my character FOR me. So. Given that we have appearance slots because people who wear plate want to look like they're wearing cloth, new plate for people who wear cloth that want to look like they're wearing plate, etc., how could it possibly hurt anything to allow us to pick out of your "packages" the one that suits us best given our characters' histories in this world wherein any race can be any class? Appearance slots were a definite win. So much so we saw weapons and shields added after all the fuss about how it wasn't possible.You can't tell me it would be that hard to allow us to select a package that would benefit our class and reflect the specialized years of training it took us to get wherever we are. Thus, like appearance slots that have no reflection in any kind of reality for the character's armor, we get packages that are customized by us, for us. I have a wood elf necromancer. Maybe some evil person in FP chose to raise the disgustingly cute wood elf as a joke, but hey, why should she be limited to wood elf traits when she isn't even around wood elves to learn them? Innate abilities like fae fall, yeah, that I can see, but the "chosen" traits we "learn" should be based on what we CHOOSE to learn. If I'm a half elf fury, which I am, I'm really not choosing to learn much about anything in that package, I mean seriously. The same goes for my arasai defiler.And frankly, no race should have more choices than a half elf, who should be able to choose from the packages for high elf, dark elf, wood elf and human to say the least. Or are we only ever abandoned to be raised in the woods somewhere by people with crappy racial traits?

Dragowulf

08-31-2009, 02:21 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The way I see it is that I think every race should have their own 2 unique combat ability as well, whether it be a buff, debuff, two of one, or both. Give each race either some Crit or DBL Atk, as well as some form of +DMG. Give everyone something unique. No halfassed crap that gives equality. Every race should have sort of uniqeness of their own that defines that particular race, now all the races are pretty equal and the same. Theres no reason why Gnome Assassins should be just as good as Ratonga Assassins. Ratonga are pretty much a Scout race, while Gnomes are a Mage race. They should have their uniqeness be somewhat catored to those specific archtypes.My Erudite got these taken away and sort of replaced:Arc of Lightning - AE Magic DMGCasting Fury - 5% to Casting Speed, 3% to Max Power (They nerfed it by 3% Casting Speed, so now it's 2%)Erud's Teachings - 2% to DMG Spell Crit Chance, 5 DisruptionWard of Glyph - Wards like 1000 points of DMGSo they changed or took away those to give us:Water Breathing - W T FTeleport to friend (WITH A 12 FLIPPIN HOUR RECAST?!@%#&%%^#) - PointlessHeal and Spell amount for 1.2 ( per tier) - So what is this, like a +9.6 to spell/heal DMG? Wow, raises my DMG by a whole 9.6 for each spell, OMIGOSH! - POINTLESSCasting speed increase for beneficial/hostile spells by 2% (Again, it was 5% for all spells) - Nerf5% Mount Speed - Crap20% to tradeskilled drink duration - Wow I get to save a few gold pieces - pointless20% to potion duration - Ehh, this is probably the best new thing this revamp has to offer - SADEverything else is pretty much worthless to me, which is why I didn't mention it. Overall I feel like a Erudite Coercer is useless, I can be pretty much any of the other races now and they're still pretty [Removed for Content] comprable. The reason why I made one is because I wanted the BEST race for a Coercer.</blockquote>I have an Erudite as well, she is a Conj/Sage/Tinker so the Water Breathing and Teleport are useless to me as is the rest of the stuff that is offered.Honestly after going over most of my toons I find that there isn't much in the way for my race/class combinations.I have a DE/Templar/Woodworker.... Nothing for her, and it's pretty much the same for all my toons, the racials are useless to the class that they are.</blockquote>Yes, and before the change at least races had certain uniqeness about them and actually were better for certain classes, now its just dry and boring and everyone seems to be the same give or take a teleport/water breathing/tracking/safefall ability (which mean pretty much nothing).

Davngr1

08-31-2009, 02:24 AM

i really don't care if ogre and barbs get a stun break or not but please, please, please change the iskar hp regen.. hp regen is useless it has been known for a very long time. make it +defense or +mitt or really anything more hp maybe? but NOT hp regen, thank you.

Dragowulf

08-31-2009, 02:31 AM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't care what race had what in EQ1 or could be what. I played EQ1 until EQ2 came out, and the ability to have a character of any race be any class was a SELLING point.What I do care about is customization. That would be MY ability to customize my character, not the DEV'S ability to customize my character FOR me. So. Given that we have appearance slots because people who wear plate want to look like they're wearing cloth, new plate for people who wear cloth that want to look like they're wearing plate, etc., how could it possibly hurt anything to allow us to pick out of your "packages" the one that suits us best given our characters' histories in this world wherein any race can be any class? Appearance slots were a definite win. So much so we saw weapons and shields added after all the fuss about how it wasn't possible.You can't tell me it would be that hard to allow us to select a package that would benefit our class and reflect the specialized years of training it took us to get wherever we are. Thus, like appearance slots that have no reflection in any kind of reality for the character's armor, we get packages that are customized by us, for us. I have a wood elf necromancer. Maybe some evil person in FP chose to raise the disgustingly cute wood elf as a joke, but hey, why should she be limited to wood elf traits when she isn't even around wood elves to learn them? Innate abilities like fae fall, yeah, that I can see, but the "chosen" traits we "learn" should be based on what we CHOOSE to learn. If I'm a half elf fury, which I am, I'm really not choosing to learn much about anything in that package, I mean seriously. The same goes for my arasai defiler.And frankly, no race should have more choices than a half elf, who should be able to choose from the packages for high elf, dark elf, wood elf and human to say the least. Or are we only ever abandoned to be raised in the woods somewhere by people with crappy racial traits?</blockquote>That could possibly work if the abilities were severly tweaked and different for different races so each race would have their own unique bonuses, but in my humble opinion that's giving the player too much...in the end everyone would probably end up the same (e.g. Gnome Bruisers and Iksar Bruisers would be the same in terms of racials).There definitely needed something to be done about the old racials, but this change is just ludacrisI think the devs might as well add some sort of racial feat/talent tree (Could be based on AA's, but it should be based on levels like some other games) because obviously this change isn't going down too well with many, many people. It actually sounds quite good in theory.

Beastmage

08-31-2009, 02:42 AM

They really should have gone race by race and archtype by archtype and add in flavor abilities. Something that lets the race tap into their history or ancestry.For instance, take gnomes.What make gnomes good at what they do? Well i dunno, maybe their ability to tinker small machines to help them?So gnome priests could get a temporary pet that aids healing.Gnome scouts could get temp pet that can attack their target.Gnome tank coud get a temp pet that absorbs a little of their damage.Gnome casters could get a temp pet that debuffs the targets resists.What makes Kerra good at what they do? Feline agility maybe?kerran priest could get a temporary beneficil casting speed increase.kerran scouts could get a temp reduced CA casting time or reduced recovery time.kerran tanks could get temp dodge bonus.Kerran casters could get a temporary hostile casting speed bonus.You know, stuff like that. As long as the values/durations for these things aren't high (and they have decent reuse timers) they aren't going to be overpowering, but they add a hell of a lot more flavor to the races than generic "X race is better at being Y classes by Z%" and they prevent any race/class combo from getting completely [Removed for Content] becuase the powers at be deemed it so.

Cheydak

08-31-2009, 02:54 AM

Midsong

08-31-2009, 03:12 AM

All packages should be available to all races, in my opinion. It helps to facilitate roleplaying. Unless of course this game is meant to be a RPG on rails. I dislike RPGs on rails as they are more of a movie or adventure game than an RPG.

Bekkr

08-31-2009, 03:41 AM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>"Could of" and "would of" was detailing a scenario of what they could have done if they wanted to go with your tin foil hat conspiracy theory about making money with the race revamp potions.</blockquote>Way to miss the point by a country mile, champ. <a href="http://grammartips.homestead.com/couldof.html" target="_blank">Let</a> <a href="http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000204.htm" target="_blank">me</a> <a href="http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/couldof.html" target="_blank">help</a> you out here.<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>But instead of discussing the topic you felt the need to show us how special you are.</blockquote>Hooray for more name calling. Wonderful. Also: I actually was discussing the topic, before you chimed in.Back on topic, I wholeheartedly agree with Ashlian about wanting racials to be about each of us customizing our own characters, and not being pigeonholed into something like this.I will not feed the trolls. I will not feed the trolls.

Rainmare

08-31-2009, 03:54 AM

personally I liked the high elf set. worked for my pally.customizing it to you will do nothing more then make everyone the exact same. simple as that. now granted evils may not have a 'healer' package type and that should be fixed but they are least to my high elf paladin seem fine to me.

Winter

08-31-2009, 05:28 AM

Looked at the new racial stuff tonight and, honestly, it's much more versatile. Me likee.

ratdeath

08-31-2009, 05:47 AM

Balance... me haves best idea for balance!!Squeek!!<img src="http://grimsqueekers.net/~ratdeath/pics/eq2races.jpg" width="288" height="568" />

Xalmat

08-31-2009, 05:48 AM

<cite>Piyorat@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Balance... me haves best idea for balance!!Squeek!!<img src="http://grimsqueekers.net/~ratdeath/pics/eq2races.jpg" width="288" height="568" /></blockquote>I might be a Dark Elf, but I approve this message.

MrWolfie

08-31-2009, 07:45 AM

<cite>Piyorat@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Balance... me haves best idea for balance!!Squeek!!<img src="http://grimsqueekers.net/~ratdeath/pics/eq2races.jpg" width="288" height="568" /></blockquote>Cool. More food for Kerrans! Rat-onna-stick, anyone?

rwiz

08-31-2009, 09:09 AM

In start of EQ2,All race can become all class.there are only few difference bonus.So all race should have no obvious advantages in any class.Racial balance change that is testing now maybe destroy the roleplaying flavor.If your friend change his race by racial change potion.Maybe you feel something idiot.It is not roleplaying.

CalypsoCGN

08-31-2009, 09:10 AM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Scout package - Arasai, Fae, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, HalflingMage Package - Arasai, Dark Elf, Gnome, Ratonga, IksarPriest Package - Fae, Wood Elf, Halfling, Dwarves, Froglok, Ogre, Barbarian, Toll, SarnakFighter Package - Sarnak, Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar, Froglok, DwarvesWell Rounded Pack ( combination of all 4 ) - Human, Kerra, Half ElfPriest/Mage Specialty( specialized priest/mage pack without doubling up on bonuses ) - High elf, Erudite</blockquote>That seems wrong to me...I just had a look in the original manual from EQ2 to look up what each race was meant to be classwise:Heres a list of the classes with their main stat(s) and their intended class:Barbarian (Str, Agi, Wis) - Fighter, PriestDark Elf (Int, Wis) - Mage, Priest, ScoutDwarf (Str, Agi, Wis) - Fighter, PriestErudit (Int) - Mage, PriestGnome (Agi, Int, Wis) - Mage, Priest, ScoutHalf Elf (Agi) - ScoutHalfling (Agi) - Scout, PriestIksar (Agi) - Fighter, MageKerra (Agi) - Scout, Fighter, PriestOger (Str) - FighterRattonga (Agi) - Scout, MageTroll (Agi) - FighterWood Elf (Agi) - Scout, PriestHigh Elf (Wis, Int) - Mage, PriestHuman (all even) - allonly included the original races so far...Now...if you compare those with the list given there are quite some missmatches...So what I would do is:- create 4 different "racial trade-trees": fighter scout combined mage/priest (scrap the generic mage and priest one and combine them...they are basically the same either way) well rounded "combo" pack- in order to keep the initial class intentions that have been given out since launch, you would have to give players a choice between 2 of those trees of which they can pick one at the beginning of the game.That would looks something like this:Scout package - Dark Elf, Gnome, Half Elf, Halfling, Kerra, Rattonga, Wood Elf, Fighter Package - Barbarian, Dwarf, Iksar, Oger, Troll, HumanPriest/Mage package - Barbarian, Dark Elf, Dwarf, Erudit, Gnome, Halfling, Iksar, Kerra, Rattonga, Wood Elf, High ElfWell Rounded Pack (solid combination of all 3) - Erudit, Half Elf, Oger, Troll, High Elf, HumanBy offering 2 trees to each race you wouldnt force a race into a certain "pattern".Atm Dark Elfs dont have anything "healerish" in their tree for example...although they were ment to be healers before scouts...If there would be a choice of 2 trees the player could decide which "roll" to take...and leave out those racial trades which are no benefit for his intended class, yet the lore-background would remain for all the classes...

CalypsoCGN

08-31-2009, 09:37 AM

The four different trees could look like this...I took the ones from test-server and changed them a bit to suit their purpose a bit better...Tank-tree Attributes * STA & AGI Combat * +2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack * +5 Crushing, +5 Slashing * +5 Defernce, +5 Parry, +5 Deflection, * +5 Shield Effectiveness None Combat * Increased food/drink duration by 15% * 5% increased movement speed * Reduced Falling Damage by 15% * Heal: 2% of max health, recast 1s casting 2s (out of combat only) Pools * Increase Power by 3% * Increase Health by 3% Resists * Increased Physcial (mitigation) * Increased Arcane Caster/Healer-tree Attributes * INT & WIS Combat * +5 Ministration, +5 Defence * +5 Subjugation, +5 Disruption * Increases +heal and +Spell (scales) * 2% Casting Speed increase None Combat * Mount Speed +10% * +15% duration of food/drink * Out of Combat power regen increased by x (this scales with level) * Reduced Falling Damage by 15% Pools * Increase Power by 3% * Increase Health by 3% Resists * Increased Elemental * Increased Arcane Scout-tree Attributes * STR & AGI Combat * +5 ranged, +5 piercing * +2 Double Attack, +2 Ranged Double Attack * Increases +Spell (scales) * 2% Beneficial/hostile casting Speed increase None Combat * 15% increase in stealth movement * Increases trigger count of poisons by 25% * +15% duration of food/drink * Out of Combat power regen increased by x (this scales with level) Pools * Increase Power by 3% * Increase Health by 3% Resists * Increased Noixous * Increased Arcane Combo-Pack Attributes * STR & INT Combat * +5 Defence, +5 Disruption * +1 MC, +1 RC, +1HC, +1SC, +1SE * +5 Piercing, +5 Slashing * +1% Casting Speed, +1 RDA, +1DA None Combat * Duration of Food/Drink +15% * Out of Combat power regeneration increased by x (Scales will level) * Increases Sprint Speed by 10, reduces initial power cost by 33% * +5% movement Speed Pools * Increase Power by 3% * Increase Health by 3% Resists * Increased Physcial * Increased Elemental

Calain80

08-31-2009, 09:42 AM

Just want to add my view as a Troll Inquisitor. I started this combo, 'cause almost no one did choose it ad I thought it would be funny. Then there was a racial revamp and I actually got useful abilities. I esp. loved the CA + stun I got. Now we have an other revamp. While I got lucky with the Priest / Fighter combo for an Inquisitor, I'm still sad to see the "specials" gone. I will miss the extra CA that gave me a small advantage. I also know a lot of people who will miss their racial detaunt. (Tanks included) These where nice abilities. Beside this I don't understand why we have this unbalanced set of class combinations. There is no class with a Fighter / Scout combo. At least Barbarians would have made a good Fighter / Scout race. I also think that Dark Elves would be better suited as Mage / Priest. But as you also made them FOTY (flavor of the year) for scouts, you are now trapped by your previous decisions. We also have - 7 Scout - 7 Mage - 7 Fighter - 11 Priest packages (ignoring the bad well rounded pack). Why so many priests. Barbarians would make good Scouts, Fea would make good Mages and as witten here based on EQ1 Wood Elves would make good Fighter. Then it would be 8/8/8/8. If you now exchange Ogre and Dark Elf as Priests it would fit even better. We would end up with the following combos: Scout / Mage Arasai, Ratonga, Fae, Gnome Scout / Priest Halfling Scout / Fighter Barbarian, Ogre, Wood Elf Mage / Priest High elf, Erudite, Dark Elf Mage / Fighter Iksar Priest / Fighter Troll, Sarnak, Froglok, Dwarves This should be pretty balanced. Even faction wise. The only problem would be the "Jack of all trades" races. I would probably move Kerra to Scout / Fighter and only keep Humans and Half Elves as well rounded. But for these to really be well rounded their package could take a small boost. E.g. why are they missing piecing and ranged weapon skills in the offensive ability or no ministration skill in the defensive ability? In the end is is pretty balanced, but because of this it is not very exiting. Only a few quirks esp. in the well rounded pack should be eliminated.

Oxie

08-31-2009, 10:50 AM

<cite>Calberak@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just want to add my view as a Troll Inquisitor. I started this combo, 'cause almost no one did choose it ad I thought it would be funny. Then there was a racial revamp and I actually got useful abilities. I esp. loved the CA + stun I got. Now we have an other revamp. While I got lucky with the Priest / Fighter combo for an Inquisitor, I'm still sad to see the "specials" gone. I will miss the extra CA that gave me a small advantage. I also know a lot of people who will miss their racial detaunt. (Tanks included) These where nice abilities. Beside this I don't understand why we have this unbalanced set of class combinations. There is no class with a Fighter / Scout combo. At least Barbarians would have made a good Fighter / Scout race. I also think that Dark Elves would be better suited as Mage / Priest. But as you also made them FOTY (flavor of the year) for scouts, you are now trapped by your previous decisions. We also have - 7 Scout - 7 Mage - 7 Fighter - 11 Priest packages (ignoring the bad well rounded pack). Why so many priests. Barbarians would make good Scouts, Fea would make good Mages and as witten here based on EQ1 Wood Elves would make good Fighter. Then it would be 8/8/8/8. If you now exchange Ogre and Dark Elf as Priests it would fit even better. We would end up with the following combos: Scout / Mage Arasai, Ratonga, Fae, Gnome Scout / Priest Halfling Scout / Fighter Barbarian, Ogre, Wood Elf Mage / Priest High elf, Erudite, Dark Elf Mage / Fighter Iksar Priest / Fighter Troll, Sarnak, Froglok, Dwarves This should be pretty balanced. Even faction wise. The only problem would be the "Jack of all trades" races. I would probably move Kerra to Scout / Fighter and only keep Humans and Half Elves as well rounded. But for these to really be well rounded their package could take a small boost. E.g. why are they missing piecing and ranged weapon skills in the offensive ability or no ministration skill in the defensive ability? In the end is is pretty balanced, but because of this it is not very exiting. Only a few quirks esp. in the well rounded pack should be eliminated.</blockquote>You forgot half elves, humans, and kerras. Going by the races listed in the booklet that came with the orignial box:barbarian: fighter/priestdark elf: mage/priest/scoutdwarf: fighter/priesterudite: mage/priestgnome: mage/priest/scouthalf elf: scout (ONLY)halfling: scout/priesthigh elf: mage/priesthuman: any (meaning all 4 options)iksar: fighter/magekerra: scout/fighter/priestogre: fighter (ONLY)ratonga: scout/magetroll: fighter (ONLY)wood elf: scout/priestNote: frogloks were not listed in the booklet, nor were faes, arasai, or sarnaks. If things work out that half elves do not get some sort of scout-related benefit, I'll just go dark elf and then run around in half elf illusion (level 20 swashbuckler "fun" spell, which was useless to me since my main is a half elf!)I'm still trying to see how the half elves are being ANYTHING but a scout option. Yes, they are a hybrid race, but they should not be going into option #4.The booklet that came with the original game had half elves as "traditionally" being the ONLY race that was tagged as SCOUTS. Likewise, the booklet also has ogres and trolls being the only two races that were listed as "traditionally" fighter-only.Someone tried to tell me that half elves from EQ1 were mostly paladins and most rogues were dark elves, and I was like....um...from what I've found on the EQ1 forums, half elves could only be: bards, druids, rangers, rogues, and warriors, or did I miss something somewhere? OH LOOK! 3/5 classes listed are scout classes on that list!From the booklet that came with the game: "Part human, part elf, half elves have no history or community to call their own and often feel alienated and rebellious. Half elves are truly independent in thought and action. Half elves can be of either good or evil alignment"IMO, this racial thing is not ready to go live, and still needs some work.