Lack of Mage Items on High-End Raid Encounters

[Hecula]

<p>Mage items are missing from at least 3 of the higher-end instanced raid encounters - Mynzak, Field General and Ykesha. Also, the Zarrakon mage wrist item - Bangle of the Spiteful - needs to be looked at and adjusted upwards as it is currently surpassed by 2 wrists from heroic instances and 1 wrist from an easy raid encounter (add +100 spell and it's GTG).</p><p>There needs to be at least: 1-2 more wrist slot choices, 1 finger slot choice, 1 belt slot choice and 1 symbol choice for mages added. There are 4 encounters that either need gear added or adjusted, so this is a perfect fit and a perfect time to correct these deficiencies. We also need these items to be best-in-slot choices for instanced gear as these 4 encounters should rightfully drop (and do drop for the other classes).</p>

[EasternKing]

<p>yeah id agree, if you didnt have such op items dropping well out of progression, Ring from NHT, or Belt from the fens zone, or maybe the hugely op stuff in kurns x2 for mages.</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yeah id agree, if you didnt have such op items dropping well out of progression, Ring from NHT, or Belt from the fens zone, or maybe the hugely op stuff in kurns x2 for mages.</p></blockquote><p>You mean the belt that's worse than Trak belt? That leaves the ring from NHT and final boss in Kurns which are both ultra rare and not OP for 2/3 of the mages because of BOE caps. Kurns x2 drops OP healer gear BTW - besides the aforementioned ring, I can't think of any other mage item in that zone that I'd call OP. Care to fish for a better reason?</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Care to fish for a better reason?</blockquote><p>He just doesn't want mages to have teh same itemization options that scouts do.</p>

[EasternKing]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Care to fish for a better reason?</blockquote><p>He just doesn't want mages to have teh same itemization options that scouts do.</p></blockquote><p>Come on now, ive said it elsewhere you have read it yourself, ill say it again, yes they need to adjust the mage drops, but to do so they need to remove the drops from elsewhere.</p><p>And for the op id love to see what scout items you think are so op in kurns, i have not seen 1 drop yet id use as primary gear, yet our mages have gotten several upgrades from that zone and use it primary slot.</p><p>if they remove the drops from heroic zones and kurns x2 then add them to x4 your issues will be solved no?</p><p>And as for trak belt being better than the kurnsx2 one are you taking mind altering substances?</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And for the op id love to see what scout items you think are so op in kurns, i have not seen 1 drop yet id use as primary gear, yet our mages have gotten several upgrades from that zone and use it primary slot.</p><p>And as for trak belt being better than the kurnsx2 one are you taking mind altering substances?</p></blockquote><p>Never said anything about scouts and Kurns but your random comment at least explains your reason for posting and your baseless rationale for why mages should have less itemization options. You're upset there isn't anything in Kurns for you so you feel others classes should suffer. Glad you got that out there.</p><p>Besides the ring, there is a symbol item that drops that is only slightly better (read: not OP like you claim) than Void-touched Symbol of Calling but moot if you're wearing Dark Orb and Symbol of Arcane Mastery. There is a +195 Spell earring that is perhaps slightly better than some lower-tier earrings but perhaps not depending on gear choices. Still waiting to learn what other OP items there are in there for mages. Please enlighten me.</p><p>And yea, I would wear trak belt with an extra +8 Crit, +4 Base on the effect that lasts an extra 3 secs and a reuse timer that is affected by reuse reducers over the Kurns belt. But I'd like to hear your arguments as to why the Kurns belt is better - care to try?</p>

[EasternKing]

<p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And for the op id love to see what scout items you think are so op in kurns, i have not seen 1 drop yet id use as primary gear, yet our mages have gotten several upgrades from that zone and use it primary slot.</p><p>And as for trak belt being better than the kurnsx2 one are you taking mind altering substances?</p></blockquote><p>Never said anything about scouts and Kurns but your random comment at least explains your reason for posting and your baseless rationale for why mages should have less itemization options. You're upset there isn't anything in Kurns for you so you feel others classes should suffer. Glad you got that out there.</p><p>Besides the ring, there is a symbol item that drops that is only slightly better (read: not OP like you claim) than Void-touched Symbol of Calling but moot if you're wearing Dark Orb and Symbol of Arcane Mastery. There is a +195 Spell earring that is perhaps slightly better than some lower-tier earrings but perhaps not depending on gear choices. Still waiting to learn what other OP items there are in there for mages. Please enlighten me.</p><p>And yea, I would wear trak belt with an extra +7 Crit, +4 Base on the effect that lasts an extra 3 secs and a reuse timer that is affected by reuse reducers over the Kurns belt. But I'd like to hear your arguments as to why the Kurns belt is better - care to try?</p></blockquote><p>i think mage itemisation for the most part is spot on, or do you want to try and claim mage dps in HC raid guilds is lacking now?</p><p>yes they could add a few drops, but to do so they need to remove them items from elsewhere, you have possibly the most powerful DPS item in the game dropping from a duo-able heroic encounter, this is plain flat out wrong, id love a scout item from a mob i can duo with a healer thats worth 750-1200 dps for me.</p><p>Kurns belt is a proc not a clicky like trak belt, and once they make the belt from anashti a neck it will be the best mage belt in game, again from easy content. Our GL is a summoner and got an earing of Ione that added for him around 1k dps, ive yet to see a single non mage item from that zone that is even remotley comparable to them 2 items.</p><p>mages DPS is right where it should be with current itimization, adding you more dps items in is going to push you above that point, so they cannot do this obviously, and the only other way to do it is to take the items from the easy crap they have it on and put it where it should be on x4 raid boss mobs.</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Kurns belt is a proc not a clicky like trak belt, and once they make the belt from anashti a neck it will be the best mage belt in game....</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, but I guess I don't agree with you and, based on your perspective as a scout who obviously has some gear-envy issues commenting on a thread primarily about mage gear, I would hope not many others would either.</p><p>I'm still waiting to hear why the above statement is true and "trak belt is a clicky and kurns belt is a proc" just doesn't cut it.</p>

[EasternKing]

<p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Kurns belt is a proc not a clicky like trak belt, and once they make the belt from anashti a neck it will be the best mage belt in game....</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, but I guess I don't agree with you and, based on your perspective as a scout who obviously has some gear-envy issues commenting on a thread primarily about mage gear, I would hope not many others would either.</p><p>I'm still waiting to hear why the above statement is true and "trak belt is a clicky and kurns belt is a proc" just doesn't cut it.</p></blockquote><p>yeah cos i dont know many mages and i dont understand game mechanics or class's or reading act parses and stuff like that at all, ive only been a HC raider for most of my time in eq2 /rolls eyes</p><p>Nice try at a turn around, its got nothing to do with i play a scout and everything to do with i see mages owning ZW parses every night of the week, now try spin some more your gear is not good enough.</p><p>Mages in my guild tell me they will be using the Kurns belt full time once they make the Anashti belt a neck, good enough for you ? or maybe they dont count cos they are mages?</p><p>And i notice you completley ignored the best dps item in eq2 dropping from a mob that is heroic and can be farmed with a scout and a healer, try look less biased next time, you may actually get some place with the QQ thread.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>I think mages in avatar guilds would be frigging delighted if they move them from heroic/x2 zones to the x4 zones. Mages aren't the only ones with superior choices coming from the x2 zones though - that stupid cast speed neck from WoE is better than Kultak or any other priest neck if you don't need power (and you shouldn't). There's plenty of legendary items, even collects, that are best-in-game slots for priests. Example is the stupid Runnyeye collect, which you could -arguably- dump from an idealized configuration, but I don't think shamans should. Then there's the Hoop of Fire Worship collect which people only begin to dump if they have Zarrakon/avatar earring or Zarrakon/kurnsx2 earring.</p><p>Oh, and yeah, the kurnsx2 earring from Ione is better than the avatar earring for priests. Good thing the OP avatar gear is being nerfed!11!!</p><p>Oh and before anyone brings up the ear you get from completing the MMB quest by killing Gozak, remember that priest/mage ones don't even have hp, which is moronic for itemizing for high-end raiders.</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And i notice you completley ignored the best dps item in eq2 dropping from a mob that is heroic and can be farmed with a scout and a healer, try look less biased next time, you may actually get some place with the QQ thread.</p></blockquote><p>I would love for you to tell me how the NJR is the "best dps item in EQ2" for a class that is capped on spell mod. Or are all mages reduced to Wizards in your book? You see those 100K Bolts of Ice and have an attack of apoplexy.</p><p>And no, saying "my mages told me so" is not good enough for me because that's an argument a 3 year old makes when they have nothing else to back it up with. You want to say I'm wrong, you better come to the table with more than that pathetic response.</p>

[DerFunkBlaster]

<p>I support the title of this thread. There are not enough mage items off of the raid instance bosses and too many good mage items off of group bosses.</p>

[SageGaspar]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>mages DPS is right where it should be with current itimization, adding you more dps items in is going to push you above that point, so they cannot do this obviously, and the only other way to do it is to take the items from the easy crap they have it on and put it where it should be on x4 raid boss mobs.</p></blockquote><p>That's rather the point, raiders would rather actually raid for their loot and see progression than hit easy heroic zones until their eyes bleed and they get lucky on an RNG</p><p>Personally I'm fine with raid-quality items dropping at the end of the hardest heroic zones, and quests like the signature one that force you to do the heroic content to advance them, but long farms of trivial content for best in slot items is lame. x2s aren't so appealing to me either: granted that's more because WoE is tank and spank and the last two Kurn's mobs I find agonizingly tedious. If there was a x2 with more named like the first two in Kurn's I'd love it though.</p>

[Korrupt]

<p>Having raid quality mage loot off of heroic content or x2 content is fine. Having the BEST mage item for any particular slot come from them is wrong. You should be able to get nice items off of heroic content, but there should ALWAYS be an option to upgrade with raid loot. Having heroic loot>raid loot is broken progression. Not that soe is great at progression because their new idea of instanced loot>avatar loot is just as rediculous.</p>

[Hikinami]

<p><cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think mages in avatar guilds would be frigging delighted if they move them from heroic/x2 zones to the x4 zones. Mages aren't the only ones with superior choices coming from the x2 zones though - that stupid cast speed neck from WoE is better than Kultak or any other priest neck if you don't need power (and you shouldn't). There's plenty of legendary items, even collects, that are best-in-game slots for priests. Example is the stupid Runnyeye collect, which you could -arguably- dump from an idealized configuration, but I don't think shamans should. Then there's the Hoop of Fire Worship collect which people only begin to dump if they have Zarrakon/avatar earring or Zarrakon/kurnsx2 earring.</p><p>Oh, and yeah, the kurnsx2 earring from Ione is better than the avatar earring for priests. Good thing the OP avatar gear is being nerfed!11!!</p><p>Oh and before anyone brings up the ear you get from completing the MMB quest by killing Gozak, remember that priest/mage ones don't even have hp, which is moronic for itemizing for high-end raiders.</p></blockquote><p>I have to chime in and say I would be delighted if this was the case.</p><p>I was looking at my equipment today and really some slots are just completely blank as far as raid itemization goes. Wrists are one of the weakest. It seems the only raid wrist I see most wearing regardless of what they are killing is dark metal ingot and a piece from a heroic zone (It's either the guk 3 bangle or the bangle of portals), I rarely see anyone wearing the zarrakon wrist aside from summoners and even then I do not recall seeing it come up to much. In fact I've started to think maybe I would get better preformance not wearing a single raid wrist as a sorcerer it seems the bangle of inceneration and the bangle of portals would make a stronger combo, something seems totally wrong if at the end of the day and looking at everything for the slot that there is not at least one raid wrist that trumps the heroic zones.</p><p>We're also looking at possibly the belt slot being a complete no show depending on how the item changes happen to develop on test. We'll have to fall back to the Trak belt or the kurnsx2 belt or the veksar belt for anything at all. Ykesha really really really needs a mage belt if anasthi no longer drops a desireable mage belt; the screenshots I've seen it hardly seems like a good choice for a sorcerer or mage really at first glance. I thought it seemed more fitting for a spellcasting healer like a fury, templar, or defiler and having those classes get a neat raid belt is fine. The solution would be to put a end game mage belt on the Ykesha with all the other ones. Tossing a coin proc on the old Anasthi belt and giving it a new name seems like a fine move for fixing the belt problems more than what we will have but in the end mages at least need ONE desirable belt from the x4 raids.</p><p>Symbols really seem to be lacking though I do not see too many scout offhands they do have more than mages. The combo seems to be two of the following for any geared up mage: Void Calling, Befallen Soldier, or Ethernaut magus dagger. Sometimes You see the avatar symbol in there but it is not that common. I think there should be at least two mage symbols from raid instance bosses.</p><p>Though my main gripe is rings. Every mage and quite a few priests are sporting the blood and rage ring off Gynok. It's a great ring and like the symbol of calling I think it covers all the bases for each type of mage I am quite happy with some pieces of catch all itemization, it is what is paired with that ring that really starts to make me turn my head in confusion. Ring of Readiness is still the best mage ring in the game and nothing will ever come close until SF or unless Miragul drops some super preparation ring of massive overpoweredness. The kurns ring is somewhat of a sidegrade and still fails to solve the fact that the most desired effect for the all mages does not drop from anything in the spectrum of x4 raiding. I'm fine with preparation being available in heroic gear but it should not be the only way. Most of the time though I see the ring from palace, or the band of devastation. As long as preparation is on rings it will still be the most wanted thing since sliced bread but if the trend continues with them being rarer than the praetors guard, the essence of mastery, and the pre-lockerbox bard drums rolled into one we need something that we can use until the stars align and a preparation item drops.</p><p>I've not seen many neck items and I will admit to not looking for them much due to the bloodthirsty choker. If the anasthi belt is changed we will have a nice neck slot then to replace it but I do not think I have seen a single mage item for neck slots for this years x4 raiding. Scouts and priests have a few sprinkled here. Is that what the new necklace is aiming to fill? I'd prefer to have my belt. I see people wearing the assortment of Rok necklaces or the white gold necklace or the one from ward of the elements for summoners and enchanters but only sometimes. I think the only respectable piece this expansion for sorcerers is out of kurnsx2. If the white gold necklace or the hollow choker were changed to be neck and either finger or wrist it would go miles to fill some gaps though I would prefer new pieces dropping from x4 zones.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i think mage itemisation for the most part is spot on, or do you want to try and claim mage dps in HC raid guilds is lacking now?</blockquote><p>So, by your own logic, if scouts were able to compete DPS wise in the next expansion, yet only have 5 non set gear, instanced raid upgrades, you would be happy with scout itemization?</p><p>I think your just getting itemization and class balance mixed up, and your also unable to look past pure DPS in terms of itemization.</p>

[slippery]

I just do not see the problem that needs to be fixed. You say you want to take base damage away from the belt slot, yet the vek2 and ktx2 belts proc base damage? I think this item succumbs to the belief that every raid item has to be immediately replaceable next expansion. That just isn't the case. This is an item that could wait till a later mob to replace, and it doesn't have to be a huge replacement. It could easily be replaced (assuming no item degradation) by something with say 5 spell crit, 6 crit bonus, 6 base damage, and 5 cast/reuse proc.

[Hecula]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I just do not see the problem that needs to be fixed. </blockquote><p>Perhaps that 3 high-end instanced raid encounters drop NO mage gear at all and 1 drops gear worse than something that drops from a loot pinata first name in Palace?</p><p>I mean, besides the fun of actually killing these things for the first or second times, we would like the fun of being able to actually upgrade our gear throughout this expansion.</p><p>Can you understand that killing one of the hardest instanced encounters in the game (Ykesha) and getting NO reward for it for 1/4 of your raiding classes isn't cool? And if that wasn't bad enough, the fact that it isn't just Ykesha but no less than 3 of the higher-end progression encounters are the same way?</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I think this item succumbs to the belief that every raid item has to be immediately replaceable next expansion.</blockquote><p>If this were the case for every archtype, then I'd agree. If every archtype had as many top end instanced mobs with nothing at all for them, let alone something worthwhile, then I would agree.</p>

[Hecula]

<p>Thank you for the new itemization choices for mages. Thank you for listening.</p><p>Is it possible to do mage items for Mynzak and Field General too?</p>

[slippery]

Showing us the new items would be fantastic so we can give our opinion now instead of waiting for someone to get the drop on live.