Changes to Necklace of plague? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

EasternKing

08-20-2009, 08:43 AM

So maybe someone can explain to me why this current change is proposed for this item<img src="http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/theeasternking_photo/AvaNeck.jpg" width="600" height="480" />As you can see, the item on the left is from an easy instanced mob, the neck on the right is on a contested avatar in a zone that is a lagfest at the best of times, Can who ever is in charge please explain to me why it gets less base damage than the instance one, less health, less power, and has no Melee crit on it or spell crit on it like the instance necks from Anashti?im mean do you clowns even look at the gear you have in game when making changes?Also i picked up my torque of peacock feathers for 18dkp, minimum bid in my guild, i paid out 209dkp for my avatar neck, we get 4 per zone completed and 6 per ava kill, so ya you do the math. thanks soe GG on wasting my time effort and dkp.Also and i dont really care what the casuals think, i live in the UK, i raid with an EST raid guild 1am-5am, you know why i raid them hours right? thats right to kill avatars, so i have just wasted the last 3months of early morning raiding for gear that you are trash canning even before we get the mega nerf of gear degradation, whats even better is is paid soe 50$ for the pleasure of going to raid 1am till 5am, if these changes go live without a severe over haul of what they are currently you can kiss my sub good bye, and ive played eq2 since jan05, i spent a ton on moving chars, lon and other crap to boot.

Novusod

08-20-2009, 09:25 AM

Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.

EasternKing

08-20-2009, 09:32 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>Avatar of disease is easier huh? killed it many times have you? mine came from contested anashti sul thanks.in the 3 months ive been on my server Aod has died 5 times in 12 weeks, Instance Anashti has died 28 times to my guild alone in the same period, that means that Aod dropped 5 items 5 charms, into the game world and anashti dropped 56 items, never mind the other guilds killing anashti in that same period.For others in my guild who have been there since ava started being killed they killed 11 Aod, they have killed instanced anashti over 70 times. thats 140+ items from instance mob to 11 items from aod, 11 charms.Now i know it may seem like a hard concept to grasp for you, but avatar gear is supposed to be better than instance loot b/cos it comes in VERY LIMITED amounts to the game world, so kindly shut up with an instance mob should be dropping a neck thats better than a neck that comes from contested raid mobs, if so they need to nerf the lock out on palace to a week.And would you care to elaborate on the issues with my guild and its dkp? we have a dkp cap, we have officer final say on loot bids, all in all its by far the best dkp system i have expericanced in my time playing eq2, and it went for so much genius because its a rare item, you know there is maybe 10 ppl on the whole of oasis server with one atm.

Novusod

08-20-2009, 10:17 AM

<cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of disease is easier huh? killed it many times have you? mine came from contested anashti sul thanks.in the 3 months ive been on my server Aod has died 5 times in 12 weeks, Instance Anashti has died 28 times to my guild alone in the same period, that means that Aod dropped 5 items 5 charms, into the game world and anashti dropped 56 items, never mind the other guilds killing anashti in that same period.For others in my guild who have been there since ava started being killed they killed 11 Aod, they have killed instanced anashti over 70 times. thats 140+ items from instance mob to 11 items from aod, 11 charms.Now i know it may seem like a hard concept to grasp for you, but avatar gear is supposed to be better than instance loot b/cos it comes in VERY LIMITED amounts to the game world, so kindly shut up with an instance mob should be dropping a neck thats better than a neck that comes from contested raid mobs, if so they need to nerf the lock out on palace to a week.And would you care to elaborate on the issues with my guild and its dkp? we have a dkp cap, we have officer final say on loot bids, all in all its by far the best dkp system i have expericanced in my time playing eq2, and it went for so much genius because its a rare item, you know there is maybe 10 ppl on the whole of oasis server with one atm.</blockquote>Avatar of disease has been killed 4 times by my guild. Just because something is rare does not mean it should be crazy overpowered. It is not like Aod is an impossibly hard mob to kill with the right gear. Aod, War, Tranquility, Growth are joke mobs like pulling a dominous back in the day yet the gear is insane. Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, whatever it is justified.

EasternKing

08-20-2009, 10:20 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of disease is easier huh? killed it many times have you? mine came from contested anashti sul thanks.in the 3 months ive been on my server Aod has died 5 times in 12 weeks, Instance Anashti has died 28 times to my guild alone in the same period, that means that Aod dropped 5 items 5 charms, into the game world and anashti dropped 56 items, never mind the other guilds killing anashti in that same period.For others in my guild who have been there since ava started being killed they killed 11 Aod, they have killed instanced anashti over 70 times. thats 140+ items from instance mob to 11 items from aod, 11 charms.Now i know it may seem like a hard concept to grasp for you, but avatar gear is supposed to be better than instance loot b/cos it comes in VERY LIMITED amounts to the game world, so kindly shut up with an instance mob should be dropping a neck thats better than a neck that comes from contested raid mobs, if so they need to nerf the lock out on palace to a week.And would you care to elaborate on the issues with my guild and its dkp? we have a dkp cap, we have officer final say on loot bids, all in all its by far the best dkp system i have expericanced in my time playing eq2, and it went for so much genius because its a rare item, you know there is maybe 10 ppl on the whole of oasis server with one atm.</blockquote>Avatar of disease has been killed 4 times by my guild. Just because something is rare does not mean it should be crazy overpowered. It is not like Aod is an impossibly hard mob to kill with the right gear. Aod, War, Tranquility, Growth are joke mobs like pulling a dominous back in the day yet the gear is insane. Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, whatever it is justified.</blockquote>Sorry that you think it having 15 base damage is crazy over powered, when the instance one has 12 base damage and 7 crit on it, the mage one has crit bonus and 12 base damage on it, atm the neck is 3 base better than the instance drop that makes it MARGINALLY better than the instance neck.QQ some more about things you clearly do not understand.im happy you think mobs that have barely changed in 3 years are easy, i think all raid content is a joke apart from munzok. and munzok is plainly broken/dumb/stupidalso they better readjust all munzok again taking into acc there new nerfs, as he was designed around people wearing avatar gear to kill.

Novusod

08-20-2009, 10:25 AM

<cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote>QQ some more about things you clearly do not understand.</blockquote>You are the one threating to quit your sub over a nerf not me. Do you even know what QQ means?

ShamusOB

08-20-2009, 10:27 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of disease is easier huh? killed it many times have you? mine came from contested anashti sul thanks.in the 3 months ive been on my server Aod has died 5 times in 12 weeks, Instance Anashti has died 28 times to my guild alone in the same period, that means that Aod dropped 5 items 5 charms, into the game world and anashti dropped 56 items, never mind the other guilds killing anashti in that same period.For others in my guild who have been there since ava started being killed they killed 11 Aod, they have killed instanced anashti over 70 times. thats 140+ items from instance mob to 11 items from aod, 11 charms.Now i know it may seem like a hard concept to grasp for you, but avatar gear is supposed to be better than instance loot b/cos it comes in VERY LIMITED amounts to the game world, so kindly shut up with an instance mob should be dropping a neck thats better than a neck that comes from contested raid mobs, if so they need to nerf the lock out on palace to a week.And would you care to elaborate on the issues with my guild and its dkp? we have a dkp cap, we have officer final say on loot bids, all in all its by far the best dkp system i have expericanced in my time playing eq2, and it went for so much genius because its a rare item, you know there is maybe 10 ppl on the whole of oasis server with one atm.</blockquote>Avatar of disease has been killed 4 times by my guild. Just because something is rare does not mean it should be crazy overpowered. It is not like Aod is an impossibly hard mob to kill with the right gear. Aod, War, Tranquility, Growth are joke mobs like pulling a dominous back in the day yet the gear is insane. Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, whatever it is justified.</blockquote>Troll people more? Because you can't be serious with your its justified garbage. Oh my goodness a mob is easy for my organized raid guild that raids alot. The original instanced anashti was harder then AoD smart guy, but you probly never even saw that version. The version of anashti now is a complete joke, but you probly didn't realize that because you were behind the progression. Hey guys I saw this progression thread and it seems it took longer to kill some of the instance content then the avatars. Strange that when the strats on Avatars didn't change and people could heal stack to make up for crit mit they died before instance content. Really Really weird it must mean the instances mobs are harder! It had nothing to do with the fact some of the untested instance content was pretty broken.

EasternKing

08-20-2009, 10:27 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EasternKing wrote:</cite><blockquote>QQ some more about things you clearly do not understand.</blockquote>You are the one threating to quit your sub over a nerf not me. Do you even know what QQ means?</blockquote>yes i know what QQ means, you are the blind fanboi crying that the mobs are so easy the gear should be nerfed, that soe is doing the right thing, i notice you didnt try and dispute the points i raised about item rarity and the amount of drops entering the game worldim not crying at all, im asking a serious question, why is an item that is 10xs rarer worse than an instance dropim also calmly stating soe are removing my reason to pay them to play this game, if you think that is crying you are a bigger idiot than i first thought.

Khurghan

08-20-2009, 11:31 AM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>Our one and only necklace of the plague dropped from Contested Anashti, is that one easier that instanced Anashti? Does that mean ours won't get nerfed?

Gungo

08-20-2009, 01:23 PM

To tell the truth this nerf is better then the first proposed avatar nerf to that neck (10 Base damage). The one that most people said was fine. I agree though the base damages on the torque should not be higher then the avatar neck and should be lowered to 10 Base damage.

Apos

08-20-2009, 08:50 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>That is just not true if you are getting 10+ second CA lags when you engage. Nothing in the game is anywhere near as difficult as contesting an avatar on a high pop server, and this doesn't even think about the people on the pvp servers. Have you ever killed Health or Disease with well over 100 people in zone and dozens of other people standing ontop of your raid and spam casting? I have. Let me just say that ykesha doesn't even come close to that experience.Now if you want to say that Contested, since their difficulty is variable based on things like server and lag and population, are a dumb idea that's one thing. But you'd be better off just removing them from the game entirely, or at least not make any contesteds next expansion to avoid this whole kind of stupidity now.

Korrupt

08-20-2009, 09:26 PM

I keep hearing that avatars are easier than some instanced mobs and should drop lesser loot. The instanced mobs that are anywhere near as difficult as any avatars also drop avatar quality loot. And the kicker is, now we have mobs like flame and justice that are WAY harder than instanced mobs who now drop garbage loot. Welcome to Domini 2.0 people, no more need to bother with contested mobs at all.

Novusod

08-20-2009, 10:01 PM

<cite>Apos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>That is just not true if you are getting 10+ second CA lags when you engage. Nothing in the game is anywhere near as difficult as contesting an avatar on a high pop server, and this doesn't even think about the people on the pvp servers. Have you ever killed Health or Disease with well over 100 people in zone and dozens of other people standing ontop of your raid and spam casting? I have. Let me just say that ykesha doesn't even come close to that experience.</blockquote>I have been there. The lag moster is surely the hardest mob in the game no doubt. I play on a pvp server too and have had players attack our raid and grief us. There have been times we have had to abort and call back with the avatar unkilled but we know 100% no other guild will kill it with lag and pvp either. We just come back another time and kill it without the lag and minimal or no pvp. Even after the nerfs we will still be killing these avatars for upgrades and shutting the other guilds out just because we can.

SinIsLaw

08-21-2009, 05:23 AM

Yeah, the Necklace of the Plague got hit far to hard! It should at least keep the same green stats then the Instanced Neck pieces!I mean seriously [Removed for Content]! You nerf the neck item to no none existance, thne add a Mage Neck to Anasthi which blows the Necklace out of the wind as well!I as well have paid over 1500 Dkp for the necklace (also dropped of CAnsthi), and passed on the Torque (which would cost me 25 dkp min bid) because I had teh C-Anasthi!if this change goes live you make instance gear more powerfull then contested gear! And you throw 9 month of earnd and spend DKP out of the window? How do you justify that? And how do you expect people to still want to play this game?The Neck of the plague should atleast have the same base CA/SD then the Torque/Choker of the desolate one! Same HP/PWR ...And please don't give me the "crap" it's still a good item for a bard! I am not a bard, I bid on the item because of what it used to be - 4 month or so ago!!!

Tehom

08-21-2009, 02:25 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been there. The lag moster is surely the hardest mob in the game no doubt. I play on a pvp server too and have had players attack our raid and grief us. There have been times we have had to abort and call back with the avatar unkilled but we know 100% no other guild will kill it with lag and pvp either. We just come back another time and kill it without the lag and minimal or no pvp. Even after the nerfs we will still be killing these avatars for upgrades and shutting the other guilds out just because we can.</blockquote>Little bit of a different situation - although it's certainly harder on a pvp server, since you can be sabotaged by a small force, you can leave up the avatar and be confident no one else has the capability to kill it. When two forces on a pve server are contesting an avatar, lag makes it extremely difficult for both - but it'll be killed immediately when one force leaves, since the remaining one is no longer lagged. That means that contested avatars on pve servers are either killed via racing through meticulous spotting, through godawful lag by a much stronger force when lag turns the mob into something that makes Ykesha seem trivial, or when one force has to give up. I wouldn't say pvp players have it easy by any stretch, but it is a different situation due to multiple capable raid forces going for avatars, and server transfers generally help ensure that weak forces don't hold onto avatars for very long.

DI2AG

08-21-2009, 03:29 PM

I really don't see where SOE are going with these changes.Contested mobs since tier5 have always dropped the most valuable loot and now SOE decides the items are too strong for the difficulty of the content (which is true) but to hit it with a nerf bat that makes it indesirable is terrible. Players will quit over this, especially those who have put in the time to contest these Avatars.We will see what comes from it, maybe they are just doing a bigger nerf than intended then beefing it up abit before live so everyones happy? regardless this is pretty poor.Also those who think just because Disease is easier than Anashti that the neck should be worse, clearly you dont know the value of contested spawns.

Gaige

08-23-2009, 10:34 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>Contested Anahti is harder than Instanced Anashti. So, your entire post is invalid.

Tehom

08-25-2009, 01:42 AM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>Contested Anahti is harder than Instanced Anashti. So, your entire post is invalid.</blockquote>This. And it's just silly to have some ultra-rare item that will usually drop from harder mobs, -if- it drops, to be worse than something that every person's 5th alt will have. I really don't think we can make it any more plain than that.

Noaani

08-25-2009, 02:03 AM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. The nerfs are justified in proper itemization progression where better loot drops from harder mobs. The Necklace of the Plague is still better for certain classes such as bards. I think think this is more of an issue with your choice of guild and your guild's DKP system than an issue with the game.</blockquote>Contested Anahti is harder than Instanced Anashti. So, your entire post is invalid.</blockquote>Its not actually.Shared loot tables need to be balanced around the easiest mob to kill that shares that loot table. In the case of evil avatars, that is Disease.I mean, we could just go back to putting the Eye Mounted Ring back on Gynok, and adding Transposition back to it. That ring is then balanced around Gynok, it just so happens to be a part of a shared loot table and also drops off a one groupable mob.The answer to all this is simply to get rid of shared loot tables, failing that it is to make all mobs that share a loot table roughly equal in difficulty.

Tehom

08-25-2009, 03:34 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shared loot tables need to be balanced around the easiest mob to kill that shares that loot table. In the case of evil avatars, that is Disease.I mean, we could just go back to putting the Eye Mounted Ring back on Gynok, and adding Transposition back to it. That ring is then balanced around Gynok, it just so happens to be a part of a shared loot table and also drops off a one groupable mob.The answer to all this is simply to get rid of shared loot tables, failing that it is to make all mobs that share a loot table roughly equal in difficulty.</blockquote>Making them all roughly equal in difficulty is the easiest solution, I think. All you'd need to do is bump up the health of the ones with around 12 million health except for Flame and Justice to around 25 million, and maybe give a physical AE to storms and growth. That'd pretty much do it right there.

Gisallo

08-25-2009, 04:41 AM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I keep hearing that avatars are easier than some instanced mobs and should drop lesser loot. The instanced mobs that are anywhere near as difficult as any avatars also drop avatar quality loot. And the kicker is, now we have mobs like flame and justice that are WAY harder than instanced mobs who now drop garbage loot. Welcome to Domini 2.0 people, no more need to bother with contested mobs at all.</blockquote>Apparently your wish has been granted <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />from Kiara on the nerf thread "Here's the question that was asked: Are there going to be level 90 Avatars?My answer. No.It doesn't get much more straight forward than that folks."

Barx

08-25-2009, 10:29 AM

No avatars does not mean no contested. They've already said there will be contested, they have not yet said whether at least some will be in your Tangrin / RoK avatars top-of-the-heap range or whether some or all will be Dominus-type AA fodder.

Korrupt

08-25-2009, 06:06 PM

Actually they said there would be 3 contested raids. This could be anything from top of the line mobs(preferred) to temple of scale type contested zones(mostly to be ignored) or domini style mobs(yawn, also will be ignored). With the current avatar gear nerf it looks like one of the latter 2 is more likely as soe apparently wants to do away with the current conteted raider playstyle.

Crismorn

08-25-2009, 06:17 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>Avatar of Disease is easier to kill than Anashti. .</blockquote>That made me laugh, thank you

Hina

09-13-2009, 02:57 PM

bumping this since this update makes the necklace of the plague worse than both necks off anashti (if the belt of the desolate one is changed into a neck as planned) which both come from an INSTANCED encounter. Hoping that this is being looked at, but no dev feedback has been given yet, so re-posting on the subject.