Knights of Truth/Order of Marr ???? [Archive]

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Ascanius

08-17-2009, 12:47 PM

I have a question are we ever going to see more of the KoT or OoM because every expansion they had some little part I was wondering if you Devs going to explain more about the order maybe even make a zone from them. Also when I did the 80th quest where you visited the Queen in her castle you can see the leader of the OoM Bayden but now he has a tag under his name called the Knights of Valor what is that about?? Did the order change their name again?? I really hope you guys leak more this next expansion. I feel when certain people left the KoT/OoM were forgottening. I'm prolly the only person that’s a shining example about that order, maybe Except the person who wrote them up ;p come to venekor server look at my paladin Spearous he has every an Order of Marr knight should have. Hell I would be willing to take over that plot and write some stuff up for you just to get it going again.

Cusashorn

08-17-2009, 01:12 PM

Ugh... Black text on a black background?Anyways, thats for the developers to decide. When you say they played a very minor part in each expansion (which isn't entirely true. They had nothing to do with DoF), it really is a VERY MINOR part. Maybe they'll come back in a later expansion, but I wouldn't expect anything soon.

Knesh

08-17-2009, 03:12 PM

I do know the Knights of Valor was the original name for Freeport Paladin - faction guide - I don't remember any Order of Marr in EQ1 though I stopped playing around the time of Planes of Power coming out so they may have created an Order of Marr in an expansion I wasn't a part of. With that said it does seem weird that Paladins of Freeport who surivived the shattering would have changed the name to Order of Marr. It would be interesting to see that story line progress to see how the two Orders/Factions come into play in future expansions - obviously as the game gets set to introduce gods back into the game you will see more lore regarding Marr and his Knights.While I haven't payed to much attention to EQ2 lore what I think happened was the Knights of Valor decided to build an order (Order of Marr) because after the shattering fractured the lands it made it impossible to communicate thus the order was created to help bridge the gap - now that the lost worlds are being found the Knights of Valor can regroup and fight for Marr against his enemies in Freeport.What would be awesome is if in some expansion the Knights actually take some position into Freeport - Even in EQ1 the vibe in Freeport was that Luclin was gaining major power in the city and the Knights of Valor were being pushed out.Or vice versa Luclin gaining ground in Qeynos - to me the game continues to make progess with content but the Freeport/Qeynos controversay has never gained traction.

therodge

08-17-2009, 05:55 PM

<cite>Knesh wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do know the Knights of Valor was the original name for Freeport Paladin - faction guide - I don't remember any Order of Marr in EQ1 though I stopped playing around the time of Planes of Power coming out so they may have created an Order of Marr in an expansion I wasn't a part of. With that said it does seem weird that Paladins of Freeport who surivived the shattering would have changed the name to Order of Marr. It would be interesting to see that story line progress to see how the two Orders/Factions come into play in future expansions - obviously as the game gets set to introduce gods back into the game you will see more lore regarding Marr and his Knights.While I haven't payed to much attention to EQ2 lore what I think happened was the Knights of Valor decided to build an order (Order of Marr) because after the shattering fractured the lands it made it impossible to communicate thus the order was created to help bridge the gap - now that the lost worlds are being found the Knights of Valor can regroup and fight for Marr against his enemies in Freeport.What would be awesome is if in some expansion the Knights actually take some position into Freeport - Even in EQ1 the vibe in Freeport was that Luclin was gaining major power in the city and the Knights of Valor were being pushed out.Or vice versa Luclin gaining ground in Qeynos - to me the game continues to make progess with content but the Freeport/Qeynos controversay has never gained traction.</blockquote>thats knights of truth by the way they were the paladin guild in WFP guild master was <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=10821">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s....shtml?id=10821</a> (edwardian holyblade)<a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1071">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s...h.shtml?id=1071</a> (valoron dunshire) who gave the starter for soulfire ( in which might i add you kill lucan during htis quest'Find Valeron Dushire upstairs in the Hall of Truth in West Freeport (/loc?). Valeron Dushire says 'I am Sir Valeron Dushire, leader of the order of the Knights of Truth. If your soul shines with purity and strength, I urge you to join our order. The might of Mithaniel Marr stands behind all who join. Soon that might will help us free this city from the tyranny of the [Freeport Militia].' You say, 'What Freeport Militia?' Valeron Dushire says 'The Freeport Militia took control of this city long ago. They are nothing more than a group of thugs not worthy of respect. They follow the words of [Sir Lucan] D'Lere. He has been a thorn in this city's side for too long. If you wish to aid us in the fight against tyranny, go speak with Jemoz or Sir Theron. May the Truthbringer shine upon your soul.' You say, 'Who is Sir Lucan?' Valeron Dushire says 'Lucan is a bad seed. You see, I trained Sir Lucan. He was nothing more than a street rat who was taken in by the Temple of Marr. The priests taught him and found him to be very agile and strong. They requested either the Priests of Marr or the Knights of Truth take him on as a squire. Gygus could not spare the trainers at the time and so we took the boy. The boy became a man, and a very formidable knight. Then something [went awry].' You say, 'What went awry?' Valeron Dushire says 'During one of our crusades into the lands of Norrath, we left Sir Lucan in charge of the remaining knights. He did much good and the people respected him. He was overtaken by power. He soon began to hire mercenaries to guard the city, calling them the Freeport Militia. His true downfall began when he killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. His divine powers were stripped from his soul. He was a paladin no longer. He and his militia now control the city. They treat it as their playground and bully the populace. Someone must [stop Sir Lucan].' You say, 'I will stop Sir Lucan' Valeron Dushire says 'That would be good, but I doubt you can. We have been trying for years and are unable to get him apart from the militia. If you do the impossible and destroy Sir Lucan, bring me his testimony. Every knight of the Hall of Truth carries a signed testimony. Sir Lucan still holds his.' Go kill Lucan in East Freeport (/loc?); you'll probably want a few friends to help you. Again, the mechanics of how to pull and kill Lucan, whether solo or with a group, are beyond the scope of this guide. When you kill his live form, a skeleton form pops right over his corpse. Kill him again. Sir Lucan D`Lere says 'Die, dog!!' Kill his live form. Your faction standing with The Freeport Militia got worse. Your faction standing with Coalition of Tradefolk Underground got worse. Your faction standing with Knights of Truth got better. Your faction standing with Priests of Marr got better. You gain experience!! The skeleton form pops. Sir Lucan D`Lere says 'You cannot stop the undead!! Foolish mortal!!' Surprise, you can. Your faction standing with The Freeport Militia got worse. Your faction standing with Coalition of Tradefolk Underground got worse. Your faction standing with Knights of Truth got better. Your faction standing with Priests of Marr got better. You gain experience!! Loot A Testimony of Truth off his undead form, which identifies as "Sir Lucans Testimony." The text is almost identical to your own Testimony (see below). <code>TESTIMONY TRUTH I believe in the might of Mithaniel Marr. I shall uphold the words of Marr and defend them with my life. I shall protect the righteous weak and avenge the souls of those whose life has been taken for naught. From this day forth I shall become a living vessel for the ideals of the Truthbringer and if I should ever falter from his grace may he cast me from this life and into the lifeless void. PRAISE BE TO MARR Sir Lucan D'Lere </code>Take the Testimony of Truth you looted off Lucan's skeletal form to Valeron Dushire and hand it to him. Valeron Dushire says 'Praise be to Marr!! You have done the impossible!! Sir Lucan is finally sent to the higher courts of the Tribunal. The city now has a chance to prosper. The Hall of Truth has been redeemed and gives you thanks. Take this. It is the Sword of Faith. May you wield it with righteousness. Beware of the remainder of the militia. They will be hunting for your head.' You receive the Brilliant Sword of Faith. Find Valeron Dushire upstairs in the Hall of Truth in West Freeport (/loc?). Valeron Dushire says 'I am Sir Valeron Dushire, leader of the order of the Knights of Truth. If your soul shines with purity and strength, I urge you to join our order. The might of Mithaniel Marr stands behind all who join. Soon that might will help us free this city from the tyranny of the [Freeport Militia].' You say, 'What Freeport Militia?' Valeron Dushire says 'The Freeport Militia took control of this city long ago. They are nothing more than a group of thugs not worthy of respect. They follow the words of [Sir Lucan] D'Lere. He has been a thorn in this city's side for too long. If you wish to aid us in the fight against tyranny, go speak with Jemoz or Sir Theron. May the Truthbringer shine upon your soul.' You say, 'Who is Sir Lucan?' Valeron Dushire says 'Lucan is a bad seed. You see, I trained Sir Lucan. He was nothing more than a street rat who was taken in by the Temple of Marr. The priests taught him and found him to be very agile and strong. They requested either the Priests of Marr or the Knights of Truth take him on as a squire. Gygus could not spare the trainers at the time and so we took the boy. The boy became a man, and a very formidable knight. Then something [went awry].' You say, 'What went awry?' Valeron Dushire says 'During one of our crusades into the lands of Norrath, we left Sir Lucan in charge of the remaining knights. He did much good and the people respected him. He was overtaken by power. He soon began to hire mercenaries to guard the city, calling them the Freeport Militia. His true downfall began when he killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. His divine powers were stripped from his soul. He was a paladin no longer. He and his militia now control the city. They treat it as their playground and bully the populace. Someone must [stop Sir Lucan].' You say, 'I will stop Sir Lucan' Valeron Dushire says 'That would be good, but I doubt you can. We have been trying for years and are unable to get him apart from the militia. If you do the impossible and destroy Sir Lucan, bring me his testimony. Every knight of the Hall of Truth carries a signed testimony. Sir Lucan still holds his.' Go kill Lucan in East Freeport (/loc?); you'll probably want a few friends to help you. Again, the mechanics of how to pull and kill Lucan, whether solo or with a group, are beyond the scope of this guide. When you kill his live form, a skeleton form pops right over his corpse. Kill him again. Sir Lucan D`Lere says 'Die, dog!!' Kill his live form. Your faction standing with The Freeport Militia got worse. Your faction standing with Coalition of Tradefolk Underground got worse. Your faction standing with Knights of Truth got better. Your faction standing with Priests of Marr got better. You gain experience!! The skeleton form pops. Sir Lucan D`Lere says 'You cannot stop the undead!! Foolish mortal!!' Surprise, you can. Your faction standing with The Freeport Militia got worse. Your faction standing with Coalition of Tradefolk Underground got worse. Your faction standing with Knights of Truth got better. Your faction standing with Priests of Marr got better. You gain experience!! Loot A Testimony of Truth off his undead form, which identifies as "Sir Lucans Testimony." The text is almost identical to your own Testimony (see below). <code>TESTIMONY TRUTH I believe in the might of Mithaniel Marr. I shall uphold the words of Marr and defend them with my life. I shall protect the righteous weak and avenge the souls of those whose life has been taken for naught. From this day forth I shall become a living vessel for the ideals of the Truthbringer and if I should ever falter from his grace may he cast me from this life and into the lifeless void. PRAISE BE TO MARR Sir Lucan D'Lere </code>Take the Testimony of Truth you looted off Lucan's skeletal form to Valeron Dushire and hand it to him. Valeron Dushire says 'Praise be to Marr!! You have done the impossible!! Sir Lucan is finally sent to the higher courts of the Tribunal. The city now has a chance to prosper. The Hall of Truth has been redeemed and gives you thanks. Take this. It is the Sword of Faith. May you wield it with righteousness. Beware of the remainder of the militia. They will be hunting for your head.' You receive the Brilliant Sword of Faith.Return to Brother Hayle (or, if you took my advice in Stage 5 and collected all the pieces first, just smile.) Con him again just to be sure; he should con at least "warmly", and preferably "ally." Hand him all four items at once: the note he returned to you, the hilt of SoulFire, your Testimony, and the Brilliant Sword of Faith. Brother Hayle says 'I will not hand Soulfire to you until you hand me the Soulfire hilt, Testimony of Truth, Sword of Faith and the returned note. I require them as [proof of nobility].' Brother Hayle says 'I will not hand Soulfire to you until you hand me the Soulfire hilt, Testimony of Truth, Sword of Faith and the returned note. I require them as [proof of nobility].' Brother Hayle says 'I will not hand Soulfire to you until you hand me the Soulfire hilt, Testimony of Truth, Sword of Faith and the returned note. I require them as [proof of nobility].' Brother Hayle says 'You have proven yourself worthy to hold Soulfire. Do not let her slip into the hands of evil. There are many who wish to free the many trapped souls of shadowknights and necromancers trapped inside the blade. The power of the blade can be called upon to heal you if need be. May Rodcet Nife and the twins of Marr hold you in their glory.'the knights of truth were sent to befallen to stop undead the entrance caved in locking them inside (its implyed lucan had something to do with this)The order of marr if i remember correctly were the orignal occupyers of beffalen they took in the cursed gynok moltar but his insanity got to him i cannot remember for the life of me weather or not he simply slaughtered them or f his curse killed them off regardless befallen is the resting place of many a paladin /greive

Lasai

08-17-2009, 06:30 PM

Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.

Cusashorn

08-17-2009, 07:01 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.

Lasai

08-17-2009, 07:12 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.

Coniaric

08-17-2009, 08:12 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.</blockquote>Let's start somewhere. Soulfire? Some paladin did took it and carried somewhere out in Norrath. Eventually, on his demise probably, Soulfire was lost to the history and its whereabout was unknown.Until the 2nd Rallosian War, and the Battle of Defiance, the Avatar of War stepped forward and he had the Soulfire in hand. He and Avatar of Tranquility fought and War lost. The Avatar of Tranquility was exhausted at the end so when Lucan walked up to the site, the monk couldn't stop him from taking Soulfire out the dead grip of Avatar of War.That's how Soulfire was returned to Lucan and where it stayed until Opal Darkbriar spirited it away centuries later.Currently, the Order of Marr is safeguarding the Qeynos Claymore in some secure place. How secure it was ... depends on if Theer is coming back to Norrath.

Cusashorn

08-17-2009, 09:04 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.</blockquote>I meant in EQlive. Paladins have to kill him for their epic quest, but he comes back to life because he was a lich back then too.Also, just because a story tells of one person of a certain race being a certain class in history doesn't mean the entire race has to follow. Illysia is an exception to the rule. A special case. Barbarians in general still don't practice archery and tracking all that much.I also said Nurgg would be best described as a brawler *ONLY* because he chose to use fists as his weapons. That doesn't mean he rigorously trained his body in the ways of martial arts. I say Brawler because that's what anyone can be if they just choose to use their fists. To call him a Monk or Bruiser would mean we'd have to see some evidence that showed he studied further into his fighting style.

Lasai

08-17-2009, 09:08 PM

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.</blockquote>Let's start somewhere. Soulfire? Some paladin did took it and carried somewhere out in Norrath. Eventually, on his demise probably, Soulfire was lost to the history and its whereabout was unknown.Until the 2nd Rallosian War, and the Battle of Defiance, the Avatar of War stepped forward and he had the Soulfire in hand. He and Avatar of Tranquility fought and War lost. The Avatar of Tranquility was exhausted at the end so when Lucan walked up to the site, the monk couldn't stop him from taking Soulfire out the dead grip of Avatar of War.That's how Soulfire was returned to Lucan and where it stayed until Opal Darkbriar spirited it away centuries later.Currently, the Order of Marr is safeguarding the Qeynos Claymore in some secure place. How secure it was ... depends on if Theer is coming back to Norrath.</blockquote>Or, you could just as convincingly claim that in this timeline, the minor bit player-quest NPC Lucan of EQLive became a much larger figure. In an alternate timeline "some paladin" may simply never have existed. Battle of Defiance is a good tale.. but I would strain to read in it that Lucan was simply reclaiming an old, lost possession.. he speaks more of it being destiny that it came to his hand.. not triumph at reclaiming what was lost. Perhaps you are party to other EQ2 lore that supports your theory.Same with the Knights and the Order of Marr.. what they were in that timeline does not dictate what they ARE in this one.This desparation to reconcile this game to EQLive baffles me. People give a trite, contrived answer that somewhat covers both sets of lore.. and thats it.Alternate Timeline. Not everything in EQLive has a place here.. much has changed, can be changed, and slavish devotion to the lore of a game most of you don't even play anymore is an injustice to the Lore of this game.

Mary the Prophetess

08-17-2009, 09:13 PM

If memory serves me, I believe it was Vallius Bayle that entered the Duchy of the Dead in Subturania and encountered Aeteok.That was discovered from the Swords of Destiny quest that included Vhalen's song (poem)Coincidentally, Vallius was also the bloke that returned the Claymore to Oceangreen. He's had his hands in a lot of pies. Oh, and he was a Paladin of Marr and the possible son or grandson of Bayle the Ethernaut as well.Interesting fellow.

Cusashorn

08-17-2009, 09:16 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.</blockquote>Let's start somewhere. Soulfire? Some paladin did took it and carried somewhere out in Norrath. Eventually, on his demise probably, Soulfire was lost to the history and its whereabout was unknown.Until the 2nd Rallosian War, and the Battle of Defiance, the Avatar of War stepped forward and he had the Soulfire in hand. He and Avatar of Tranquility fought and War lost. The Avatar of Tranquility was exhausted at the end so when Lucan walked up to the site, the monk couldn't stop him from taking Soulfire out the dead grip of Avatar of War.That's how Soulfire was returned to Lucan and where it stayed until Opal Darkbriar spirited it away centuries later.Currently, the Order of Marr is safeguarding the Qeynos Claymore in some secure place. How secure it was ... depends on if Theer is coming back to Norrath.</blockquote>Or, you could just as convincingly claim that in this timeline, the minor bit player-quest NPC Lucan of EQLive became a much larger figure. In an alternate timeline "some paladin" may simply never have existed. Battle of Defiance is a good tale.. but I would strain to read in it that Lucan was simply reclaiming an old, lost possession.. he speaks more of it being destiny that it came to his hand.. not triumph at reclaiming what was lost. Perhaps you are party to other EQ2 lore that supports your theory.Same with the Knights and the Order of Marr.. what they were in that timeline does not dictate what they ARE in this one.This desparation to reconcile this game to EQLive baffles me. People give a trite, contrived answer that somewhat covers both sets of lore.. and thats it.Alternate Timeline. Not everything in EQLive has a place here.. much has changed, can be changed, and slavish devotion to the lore of a game most of you don't even play anymore is an injustice to the Lore of this game.</blockquote>Everything that was established in EQlive all the way up to July of 2003 when the very first guilds finally beat the Plane of Time is canon to our storyline.Lucan being a lich = Canon. Lucan owning the soulfire = Canon. Lucan LOSING the soulfire to a paladin = Canon.In the Battle of Defiance chapter, Lucan said that it was destiny that the sword finally found it's way back into his hands. He said it...He's so egotistical that he thinks that stealing a famous sword in the middle of a battlefield during a given opportunity to reclaim it is destiny, and said it in such a way that nobody else in the universe was ever suppose to have it in the first place. It wasn't his to begin with when he first got it either.The "Order of Marr" didn't even exist back in EQlive. They were only created in the last 500 years.

Lasai

08-17-2009, 09:28 PM

An armored rider on a black horse reached the top of the summit and dismounted. He walked to the body of the fallen avatar and lifted the sword from its lifeless hand. The blade burned with unholy fire as the dark knight held it aloft."D'Lere!" the monk called out. "That sword doesn't belong to you."The Overlord removed his helmet to reveal a scarred, smirking face. "Of course it does, fool," he replied. "Soulfire is now where it was always meant to be. I thank you for bringing it to me, and for delivering the true enemies of Freeport to justice."Back into his hand? Where was that, Cusa?

therodge

08-17-2009, 09:41 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>An armored rider on a black horse reached the top of the summit and dismounted. He walked to the body of the fallen avatar and lifted the sword from its lifeless hand. The blade burned with unholy fire as the dark knight held it aloft."D'Lere!" the monk called out. "That sword doesn't belong to you."The Overlord removed his helmet to reveal a scarred, smirking face. "Of course it does, fool," he replied. "Soulfire is now where it was always meant to be. I thank you for bringing it to me, and for delivering the true enemies of Freeport to justice."Back into his hand? Where was that, Cusa?</blockquote>couple things first anything that happened pre planes of power is canon, period thats a fact. second cusa is incorrect lucan de'lere never possessed soulfire in eq1 he was looking for for it which you find out in zimels blades but he did not possess it. and yes lucan was a lich in eq1 no he cant be killed unless you destroy his phylacthopry which was heavily implied that he himself didnt posess and that whatever the DE faction under freeport acually had possessed.

Maergoth

08-17-2009, 10:27 PM

Lucan isn't a lich in a normal sense.. that was pointed out when we made that assumption before. He's purely sustained by the power of the Dismal Rage. He has no phylactary, but when their upper tier priests/mages are destroyed, he will lose the immortality they grant him.

Mary the Prophetess

08-17-2009, 10:44 PM

From a past Fan Faire questions about Lucan presented to Vhalen:When did he start gaining these dark powers that gave him the knowledge of the dead?VH: Lucan learned a lot about necromantic arts from his alliance with the Dismal Rage, but this was only the beginning of his journey.Why would a priest turn someone into a creature 10 times more powerful then they were especially when that person was an enemy?VH: I would never create something more powerful than I unless I held some way of controlling its actions or destroying it.Where did the Dismal Rage get this kind of power unless they were secretly a guild of Necromancers and not priests at all?VH: The dark arts of necromancy are not ignored by the Dismal Rage. Many of their members hail from Neriak, vault of some of the greatest secrets of the dark arts.You don't get the powers of a Lich from becoming a Lich, you must possess them before you ever become one otherwise the conversion would kill you, so where did these powers come from?VH: Is Lucan a lich?I am not sure but if my memory serves me correctly the only way to become a Lich is to be of sufficient power as a Necromancer in order to ascend to the status of a Lich and this cannot be accomplished by a third party, it is a rite you perform on yourself. I believe it is a forbidden ceremony for any but a Necromancer to perform.VH: See answer above.

Cusashorn

08-18-2009, 01:13 AM

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>An armored rider on a black horse reached the top of the summit and dismounted. He walked to the body of the fallen avatar and lifted the sword from its lifeless hand. The blade burned with unholy fire as the dark knight held it aloft."D'Lere!" the monk called out. "That sword doesn't belong to you."The Overlord removed his helmet to reveal a scarred, smirking face. "Of course it does, fool," he replied. "Soulfire is now where it was always meant to be. I thank you for bringing it to me, and for delivering the true enemies of Freeport to justice."Back into his hand? Where was that, Cusa?</blockquote>couple things first anything that happened pre planes of power is canon, period thats a fact. second cusa is incorrect lucan de'lere never possessed soulfire in eq1 he was looking for for it which you find out in zimels blades but he did not possess it. and yes lucan was a lich in eq1 no he cant be killed unless you destroy his phylacthopry which was heavily implied that he himself didnt posess and that whatever the DE faction under freeport acually had possessed.</blockquote>Thanks for clarifying about the Soulfire in EQlive. I never played a paladin, but I helped a few guildies with the encounter now and then. I always zoned out before Lucan died so I didn't take a faction hit, but still.

RaphaNissi

08-18-2009, 01:20 AM

If there is still any question about the Soulfire quest from EQ1 being canon for EQ2..let me shed some light on the subject. One of Vhalen's goals was to keep as much cohesiveness in the lore as possible..especially in the storylines he was responsible for. He also said on many occasions that there were many untold stories written during eq1 that he wanted to expand upon in eq2. Soulfire was one of those. He actually wrote the original Soulfire quest. He had a special interest in telling Lucan's story correctly because it was his own personal character from his D&D days. He also wrote the Swords od Destiny questline where we learn a lot about Soulfire. Add all of those up together and you get some pretty solid canon between the games on this subject. If you want to read more about it, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=79" target="_blank">he even did an interview on the subject</a>.

Lasai

08-18-2009, 01:48 AM

<cite>RaphaNissi wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there is still any question about the Soulfire quest from EQ1 being canon for EQ2..let me shed some light on the subject. One of Vhalen's goals was to keep as much cohesiveness in the lore as possible..especially in the storylines he was responsible for. He also said on many occasions that there were many untold stories written during eq1 that he wanted to expand upon in eq2. Soulfire was one of those. He actually wrote the original Soulfire quest. He had a special interest in telling Lucan's story correctly because it was his own personal character from his D&D days. He also wrote the Swords od Destiny questline where we learn a lot about Soulfire. Add all of those up together and you get some pretty solid canon between the games on this subject. If you want to read more about it, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=79" target="_blank">he even did an interview on the subject</a>.</blockquote>OT, I would like to thank you publicly for the hours and time you have put into that site, I have spent hours there reading the books and scraps.. it has been invaluable. Thank you so much. I do enjoy the actual lore taken from, and found in this game.now.. back to being me. I giggle so hard when I read any of Vhalens non-informative multi paragraph rambles that say nothing.. to this day I don't understand the awe people hold him in.. as the average party hack politician is far more straightforward in actually giving an answer to a given question. I don't miss the guy one bit.And now that I gored that sacred cow.. Im gone. I have enjoyed my semi annual rite of posting heresy here, and wish you all well.

Dragonir

08-18-2009, 07:03 PM

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alternate timeline... different game.The fact that Lucan lives, and tons of lore written revolving around that fact.. makes that sort of EQLive lore irrelevant.</blockquote>Actually, everything mentioned in the above few posts is canon to this game. Lucan really did trick the Knights of Marr to their deaths by sending them to Befallen and then sealing the entrance.Lucan is a lich, after all. If he gets killed, he'll just come back. The only way to destroy him is to destroy his phylactery, which never happens in EQlive's soulfire or paladin epic quests.</blockquote>Actually, I don't recall Lucan's death.. IN THIS GAME.. and as far as I know.. Opal Darkbriar took soulfire from him.. not some wannabe pally..but w/e. There are so many holes in EQLive lore being "canon" to this game that I really no longer care. In another post you took exception to Ogres having certain fighting skills.. and a Barbarian being a ranger.. well, guess what.. thats "canon" now too, it is in the official lore, and nothing you read or learned in EQLive changes that.</blockquote>Let's start somewhere. Soulfire? Some paladin did took it and carried somewhere out in Norrath. Eventually, on his demise probably, Soulfire was lost to the history and its whereabout was unknown.Until the 2nd Rallosian War, and the Battle of Defiance, the Avatar of War stepped forward and he had the Soulfire in hand. He and Avatar of Tranquility fought and War lost. The Avatar of Tranquility was exhausted at the end so when Lucan walked up to the site, the monk couldn't stop him from taking Soulfire out the dead grip of Avatar of War.That's how Soulfire was returned to Lucan and where it stayed until Opal Darkbriar spirited it away centuries later.Currently, the Order of Marr is safeguarding the Qeynos Claymore in some secure place. How secure it was ... depends on if Theer is coming back to Norrath.</blockquote><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2">Hmmm if I remember the Soulfire was actually taken to the Plane of sky, where it was handed to Inte Akera in return for a blessing. Our old friend Jindrack spoke of it... <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=408296" target="_blank">here...</a></td></tr> <tr><td rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"> </td> <td valign="top"> </td></tr></tbody></table>

Ascanius

08-18-2009, 11:07 PM

lol so off topic now so maybe a dev maybe want to kind of answer my question pretty pleaseeeeeeeee

Coniaric

08-18-2009, 11:58 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or, you could just as convincingly claim that in this timeline, the minor bit player-quest NPC Lucan of EQLive became a much larger figure. In an alternate timeline "some paladin" may simply never have existed. Battle of Defiance is a good tale.. but I would strain to read in it that Lucan was simply reclaiming an old, lost possession.. he speaks more of it being destiny that it came to his hand.. not triumph at reclaiming what was lost. Perhaps you are party to other EQ2 lore that supports your theory.Same with the Knights and the Order of Marr.. what they were in that timeline does not dictate what they ARE in this one.This desparation to reconcile this game to EQLive baffles me. People give a trite, contrived answer that somewhat covers both sets of lore.. and thats it.Alternate Timeline. Not everything in EQLive has a place here.. much has changed, can be changed, and slavish devotion to the lore of a game most of you don't even play anymore is an injustice to the Lore of this game.</blockquote>*sigh*I am not claiming anything. In the Tome, it stated Lucan D'Lere received the Soulfire from the fallen Avatar of War. Lucan never had the sword until that very moment. He desired it. he sees it as his destiny to possess this sword. It finally came into his hands and he will not allow it out of his sight (and even more after what happened with Opal).The Soulfire was lost for a while. I haven't said Lucan lost it. Just that the sword disappeared. Apparently, per older post from Jindrack, it disappeared after the exchange in the Plane of Sky.As in other post, the timeline between EQLive and EQ2 is same up to the events within the Plane of Time. So the basic lore is same between these two timelines. And of course, some events that happened afterward may not be acknowledged or they may be.Events of EQLive before the timeline split (as of Planes of Power era) are still valid to EQ2's timeline. Things that happened afterward are subjective.Pay attention a little more. Even if you don't care. What you deemed as irrelevant is actually relevant.__________________________________________________ _____________________________________What does all of this have to do with the Order of Marr? Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.Keep in mind, the Order sought after Claymore and claimed it to safeguard it. Then they tried to figure out the events involving the Soulfire but were too late to spirit it away. Perhaps we'll learn more about this Order since Exonus is important to Theer and the Order is hiding it. Perhaps the Shard of Love will reveal more, or maybe not as much.

Barx

08-19-2009, 10:25 AM

<cite>Spearous@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>lol so off topic now so maybe a dev maybe want to kind of answer my question pretty pleaseeeeeeeee</blockquote>That's not how the history & lore forums really work. (For those wondering like I was, that is apparently the OP using a different char name). Rarely will you see a Dev (Cronyn) just answer questions in here. Vhalen used to do it back in the day, but he had a cryptic way of giving you information without answering your question head-on...Also consider that if they ARE to play a role, that info is likely something they cannot release as it would potentially spoil part of the lore in the new expansion.

Rainmare

08-19-2009, 05:34 PM

I was always under the impression the 'Order of Marr' was the combination of the priests of erollisi and the paladins of mithaniel from freeport, after they got thrown out. they played no part in DoF, and the parts they have played before or since were always very tiny.As to Soulfire...yes, Lucan never possessed it before the Battle of Defiance. he was looking for it, and had locked Zimmel away for withholding information from him. we as players gained Soulfire, and later went to PoS and traded in the Soulfire blade as part of our quest for the Fiery Avenger/Defender.After that, we don't know what happened to it that allowed it to fall into the hands of the Avatar of War, that lead to it falling into Lucan's hands.Is lucan a lich? I think so. because we know the story of 'a paladin' getting his testimony through his 'death' would have to be canon as it is a direct part of the story to Soulfire's discovery in eq1. and I still think that's why the dismal rage in Eq1 was able to do it's tasks such as infiltrating the Academy. becuase they had leverage over Lucan via his phylactery.But I'll also wager that what Lucan truly is, and how he became it, is going to be one of those mysteries we'll never know the real answer to.

Mary the Prophetess

08-19-2009, 08:04 PM

The following was in answer to a question concerning the Ruins of Castle Val'Marr, but it contains some pertinent information about the evolution of the Order of Marr and it's various incarnations.Castle Valmarr is a little known piece of Norrathian history. Here's a bit that may enlighten you on the Ruins of Valmarr.Castle Valmarr was the birthplace of the greater guilds of valor that sprang from the eastern shores of Old Antonica, in a region known as The Commonlands. The vestiges of what we now know as the Order of Marr all lead to this fortress that resided within the wilds of The Commonlands during the early days of the Age of Enlightenment. In the days leading up to the Age of Enlightenment a number of knightly orders converged upon the The Commonlands. Some say they were led here by the calling of their gods, Erollisi and Mithaniel Marr, the Twin Deities of Valor and Love. Their true nature for converging on this land has never been divulged, but what can be said is that these orders did come together to form one mighty union. This first incarnation of the Order of Marr would be comprised of the great orders of The Priests of Marr, The Knights of Truth and the Order of Marr's Fist. Although a few other knighthoods were formed within the order, none would be as prestigious as those mentioned and none would be as instrumental in liberating The Commonlands from the evil denizens that lurked there.The first structure created to house the Order of Marr would be Castle Valmarr, a hastily constructed citadel built within the hostile plains of The Commonlands. It was not an easy task to construct such a castle while under frequent assault by orc raiders, but Castle Valmarr was eventually completed in the early days the Age of Enlightenment, long before anyone would ever know the name Freeport. The castle would eventually be abandoned for more fortified structures. What remains is the ruins of the birthplace of the Order of Marr, long destroyed and nearly picked clean of what building resources it could offer residents of The Commonlands over the ages. Some say secrets still remain in the ruins, secrets that could explain why the Twin Deities sent their followers into the region and where they may have vanished to in the Age of Destiny.The majority of the Knights of Truth and Priests of Marr left Freeport near the end of the Age of Turmoil. They left behind a meager detachment of priests and Sentries of Erollisi to tend to the temples of the twin deities. The crusade they rode off on is said to be the Befallen trap that the Overlord set for the valorous order. But rumors began to spread within the halls of The Militia House that the Sir Lucan was the one who was fooled. The knights rode off on a secret crusade, all the while playing the part of the unwitting victims. This would be the veil of their secret crusade. Is this a rumor spread by the faithful followers of the twin deities or did the knights truly ride off on a secret crusade? The Overlord would not get a glimpse of the truth until the Battle of Defiance.The secret crusade they rode off on has never been divulged, although Sir Lucan did his best to pry it from the tortured souls of the priests and sentries left behind. Not being able to find any trace of his former order, he assumed that his trap had worked. His eyes would not be opened to the truth until the Battle of Defiance when the glint of shining armor strode upon the thickened battlefield. With banners of truth and love held high and sword and shield at the ready, the knights emerged from extinction. Where they had been all this time and what brought them back has not been told, but the answers begin with the title they now carry, The Order of Marr.I mentioned the Order of Marr in past entries. I mentioned how they departed Freeport and vanished from the eyes and ears of Norrath towards the end of the Age of Turmoil. They would not be seen again until the Battle of Defiance. From a hidden fortress, the Order of Marr sent a small unit of knights to the Battle of Defiance. Imagine the thoughts racing through Lucan's mind as, in the midst of the largest battle in Freeport's history, a small but mighty cavalry unit of the Knights of Truth stormed onto the battlefield, cutting though the horde of Rallosians. They were charging through the densest and most dangerous orc forces in an attempt to reach the leader of the evil horde, the Avatar of War. The Avatar of War was in a heated battle with the Avatar of Tranquility and a band of powerful monks. The forces of war gained the upper hand and the monks would soon perish if not for the valiant charge of the Knights of Truth. Instead of looking to the Knights of Truth as an extra sword to strike at the massive Rallosian Army, Lucan saw their brave charge as a threat. Lucan led his own elite cavalry to meet the Knights of Truth within the sea of orcs that surrounded the mount. When their swords crossed, the orc elite withdrew from the skirmish either wishing to take no more losses from the two mighty knighthoods or to allow them to destroy each other. It was an epic clash that took place within an even greater epic battle. In the end, the Knights of Truth would fall to the blades of Lucan's knights. It was not until after the Battle of Defiance that Lucan would discover that the Knights of Truth were in fact part of a new Order of Marr. He knew that there must be a greater force of these knights waiting out there somewhere in some hidden castle. He would also wonder why they appeared at the Battle of Defiance with such a small contingent. Having been a knight of Marr in his youth, Lucan knew they must be on a new crusade... a secret crusade. It was within the Overrealm that some of you learned a portion of that secret crusade. You know that they are caretakers of a great artifact. They may not truly understand the origin or purpose of that artifact, but they know that the fate of Norrath is tied to it. And if some of you know about that crusade, then I can assure you that Lucan is well aware of it also. It just may be that Sir Lucan D'Lere knows more about their secret crusade than they do.

Gisallo

08-22-2009, 03:22 AM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>RaphaNissi wrote:</cite><blockquote>If there is still any question about the Soulfire quest from EQ1 being canon for EQ2..let me shed some light on the subject. One of Vhalen's goals was to keep as much cohesiveness in the lore as possible..especially in the storylines he was responsible for. He also said on many occasions that there were many untold stories written during eq1 that he wanted to expand upon in eq2. Soulfire was one of those. He actually wrote the original Soulfire quest. He had a special interest in telling Lucan's story correctly because it was his own personal character from his D&D days. He also wrote the Swords od Destiny questline where we learn a lot about Soulfire. Add all of those up together and you get some pretty solid canon between the games on this subject. If you want to read more about it, <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=79" target="_blank">he even did an interview on the subject</a>.</blockquote>OT, I would like to thank you publicly for the hours and time you have put into that site, I have spent hours there reading the books and scraps.. it has been invaluable. Thank you so much. I do enjoy the actual lore taken from, and found in this game.now.. back to being me. I giggle so hard when I read any of Vhalens non-informative multi paragraph rambles that say nothing.. to this day I don't understand the awe people hold him in.. as the average party hack politician is far more straightforward in actually giving an answer to a given question. I don't miss the guy one bit.And now that I gored that sacred cow.. Im gone. I have enjoyed my semi annual rite of posting heresy here, and wish you all well.</blockquote>HERETIC....BURN THEM!!!!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Seriously though. If you take into account the fact that he's trying to tell you stuff WITHOUT giving future things away, his interviews become almost understandable. Also, even in the interviews he uses a literary style (perhaps a tad pretentious) almost like an oldan telling you a tale from some oral history. As an example he posted on these forums back in 2005 that a NEw Halas was out there and that we had yet to hear the tale of the barbarians that lived there and the foes they fought to preserve their new home. When I saw the Rime I said "HALAS IS THE NEW GOOD CITY!!!" I actually yelled it in guild vent much to the consternation of many guildmates. They then said "go to the fens" I went and there they were talking about Velious. I was still chanting Halas. Then Fan Faire and I got to sat "told ya so" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. All of which I would not have said if I hadn't found that obscure little vague post on the forum here.Now it may help that over 25 years ago I got the table top RPG bug. I started writing my own characters with histories, adventures and stories I would run, new peoples and nations with histories etc. I did a spring cleaning throwing out most of this stuff when I bought my first house 12 years ago. 20 black and white marbled composition books went out with the trash full of the written words, sketches and maps that went along with all of this stuff. When you have that kind of basis, verbal descriptions can get a bit obtuse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Meirril

08-22-2009, 07:34 AM

The first sign of the Order of Marr that we see in game is from the Bloodlines Chronicals. I'd suggest working through their quest series to get some info from them directly.As for Soulfire in EQ1 almost every paladin did the quest to obtain it because it was one of two swords you needed to earn to complete your epic weapon quest. At some point during the paladin epic you would sacrifice the blade. I think you did that in the plane of fear, but I'm not sure. If your really interested, go look up the EQ1 paladin epic 1.0 quest. The other epic quests introduced into EQ2 happened after the time line split. So, from a lore perspective there is no reason that Soulfire shouldn't of found its way into the Avatar of War's hands in the 500 years since the time split. Indeed, if it was lost in the Plane of Fear and the Avatar of War looted the Temple of Cazic Thule then its very likely he obtained Soulfire from one of the many hidden vaults there.With Lucan De'Leer searching for Soulfire in EQ1 as part of Soulfire's origional quest series, its kinda natural that he'd claim the blade if he ever got the chance. With Vhalen writing much of the lore for EQ2, its natural for him to revive this as it came to a dead end in EQ1. Having it be central to one of the main story lines in EQ2...yeah that's natural too.We're not done with that story line yet. It won't be done until we're completely finished learning about the void story line. I'll be glad when its done. Though...I'll miss it too in a nostalgic sort of way. Vhalen knew how to spin a story and give you clues but he let the story unfold in its own good time without ruining it. The best part was that the clues made sense after the fact, but before you saw it in game you could go in all kinds of directions and the first thought wasn't always the right one. That does take a fair amount of tallent and restraint. Now if only the devs that wrote the epic quests had shown the same restraint! Ah well.

DukeOccam

08-22-2009, 01:44 PM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for Soulfire in EQ1 almost every paladin did the quest to obtain it because it was one of two swords you needed to earn to complete your epic weapon quest. At some point during the paladin epic you would sacrifice the blade. I think you did that in the plane of fear, but I'm not sure. If your really interested, go look up the EQ1 paladin epic 1.0 quest. The other epic quests introduced into EQ2 happened after the time line split. So, from a lore perspective there is no reason that Soulfire shouldn't of found its way into the Avatar of War's hands in the 500 years since the time split. Indeed, if it was lost in the Plane of Fear and the Avatar of War looted the Temple of Cazic Thule then its very likely he obtained Soulfire from one of the many hidden vaults there.</blockquote>You didn't sacrifice any blades, you just turned them (Soulfire and Ghoulbane) in to Inte Akera in the Plane of Sky. The resulting Blessings you receive, in addition to two more acquired by handing in items obtained by killing Miragul, are then turned in for the Fiery Avenger. You don't need to go to Plane of Fear until you begin working on the Fiery Defender, the true epic.