PVP Fix PLZ

[Imperias]

<p>Okay so after a long discussion with GM Digaida, and how she/he said that Co-Oping is legal, and that griefing is allowed... Heres they layout for you, since 9:40pm PST till NOW 11:16pm as I write this, Qeynosian player from Nagafen named Ascension, has been griefing (repeatably) killing the same players, stealing our mobs, that is obviously why we went there to kill. (POF/COR) run.</p><p>Why don't you, the company fix this. Explain to all of us what violates player harassment, i swear griefing was in that catergory.</p><p>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage. Co-Oping in MMORPG games is like tracking, but a better version this version of 'tracking' makes it so that player can find out what exact zone hes in, whether that player uses the guild banner or not. So the enemy whos 'tracking' that player can alt-tab onto the other account to hunt and kill the player now that he knows the general location.</p><p>Ascension, has been Griefing Harmtouch, whom is a Freeportian, for nearly two SOLID weeks, not just killing Harmtouch but wiping out a whole raid of 24 players. Thats 24 players whom PAY to PLAY. Yes we all joined this server, Nagafen for PVP, but we did not join to be harassed by the same player for nearly 2 SOLID weeks.</p><p>Most players are beginning to think hes running also, a 3rd person tracking system that doesnt require a class. Yes, there is such a thing. Yes, I strongly believe that hes using 3rd person software.</p><p>Yes I am also venting. Anyhow currently your game needs a BIG PVP fix.</p><p>1. Make Co-Oping a high bannable offense. Just as high as hacking, exploiting, buying and selling plat with real life money.</p><p>2. that 30minute (no fame/infamy gain) make it so not only do you not get fame/infamy after killing make it so they cannot grief, how you might ask, make it so he/she is non-attackable.</p><p>3. Do us a favor and ban Ascension for spamming in freeport chat on his alt account with his alt toon named Narakku. (I a have SS's), ban him for all those harassments towards griefing, ban him because this player DESERVES IT.</p>

[Raetsel]

<p>Guess you are posting in a subforum that has nothing to do with your topic + you are on PvP but you don't want to get killed?</p>

[Imperias]

<p>Update, cause im sick of trying to work SoEs bugged /petition system (fyi you can click 'service history' click 'questions' and nothing happens) fix that while your at it...</p><p>Well its 11:48, over 2+hours of Ascension griefing just took another SS of him killing the WHOLE AA run.</p><p>Great job SoE.. Your Justice System fails. Your in-game diety, Tribunal does more justice and thats Pixelized.</p>

[Imperias]

<p><cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guess you are posting in a subforum that has nothing to do with your topic + you are on PvP but you don't want to get killed?</p></blockquote><p>I know that with being in A PvP server theres a chance of death, your missing the point, please be quiet.</p>

[Imperias]

<p>again, griefed. 12:18am, automatically knew where we were....</p>

[Raetsel]

<p>The following is an excerpt from the"[EQ2] EverQuest II Player Versus Player Ruleset Policy" article within the SOE Knowledge Base:</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><em>Harassment/Griefing issues, contested areas, and “The PvP<strong></strong> Solution”: As noted above, the lands of Norrath are wrought with danger and characters of opposing alignments that wish to see your character meet an untimely end so they can loot your coin or to prevent you and those of your alignment from adventuring on “their turf”. There is an in-game mechanic to deter harassment and griefing through repeated killing of the same character by not rewarding repeated player kills with the opportunity for maximum faction gain and by not having the defeated player spawn a chest with coin or item. This mechanic may be adjusted by Development at any time. While our standard harassment/abuse policies still apply (see link above) and will be strictly enforced by our Customer Service staff, <strong>repeatedly killing another character is not considered harassment and will not be addressed by Customer Service staff</strong>. Controlling an area through PvP<strong></strong> combat and not allowing players of an opposing alignment to adventure there by repeatedly defeating them in PvP<strong></strong> combat is not considered harassment and will not be addressed by Customer Service staff. Should players find themselves in one of these situations, they should find a PvP<strong></strong> solution to the situation. <strong>The PvP solution is simple: Gather your friends, rally your troops to your cause, and go kill your enemy. This is after all Player vs. Player… </strong></em></p><p>Why fix something that is not broken and completely legal with the rules of conduct within the PvP ruleset? PvP is not suitable for everyone -- if one fears about getting killed in PvP then considering a non PvP server would be the right consequence.</p>

[Dragowulf]

<p>Whether you like being killed repeatedly or not this person is allowed to kill you because he is on the <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; white-space: pre; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">opposing</span> faction.  Griefing is not illegal and shouldn't be.  It's not harassment, he sees someone on the opposing side trying to make money and he stops it however many times he feels is necessary.  Just because he finds you doesn't mean he's a "hacker", I'm sure he's quite knowledgeable in where the named are in the zone.</p><p>While I don't agree with people being an immature <em>EDIT:</em>butthead like such, I still shrug my shoulders and say <span style="text-decoration: underline;">"Hey, It's PvP".</span></p><p>I know Harmtouch and I use to be a competetor doing AA runs for the evil side, so to say "your a goody stop defending him" is pointless.  I had the same problem every now and then, maybe not to an extent, but I never once complained.  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bottom line is I knew what making a character on a PvP server entailed, and so should you.</span></p>

[Imperias]

<p>I do know what making a pvp player is entailed too. Rules are susceptible to change, and thats why I am bringing this to attention, that is if you havent noticed.</p>

[Dragowulf]

<p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do know what making a pvp player is entailed too. Rules are susceptible to change, and thats why I am bringing this to attention, that is if you havent noticed.</p></blockquote><p>I'm just saying.  That's like trying to change the rules by getting someone banned for "stealing" the shiny that you saw first and weren't fast enough to click.</p>

[Imperias]

<p><cite>Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do know what making a pvp player is entailed too. Rules are susceptible to change, and thats why I am bringing this to attention, that is if you havent noticed.</p></blockquote><p>I'm just saying.  That's like trying to change the rules by getting someone banned for "stealing" the shiny that you saw first and weren't fast enough to click.</p></blockquote><p>I understand, however the point im trying to make is, up to 24 people per run everyday how many runs it may be per day, Ascension griefs. Thats 24 people who pay 2 play, plus that and what ever other runs made in the same day, im just hoping you know with some soe sympathy maybe some actions can be taken, were rules may be changed lol.</p>

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>That is what happens when you are grouped with someone that much higher level than you.  You knew this when you took the AA run.  If you didn't you might want to read up on the rules before you complain about it. </p>

[Aldhissla]

<p>Bring someone to defend you from him!</p>

[Rattfa]

<p><cite>Denna@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That is what happens when you are grouped with someone that much higher level than you.  You knew this when you took the AA run.  If you didn't you might want to read up on the rules before you complain about it. </p></blockquote><p>This</p><p>It's laughable that people who are verging on exploiting themselves (AA runs) are complaining about getting killed in PvP.</p><p>As for the other points raised, you offer no proof and can only be taken as baseless accusations. You died in PvP...deal with it.</p>

[Kendayar]

<p>Oh gee, how hard is it to not figure out someone's AA run when they do the <strong>same run on the same pattern every single time</strong>? QQ</p><p>Now you want account boxing to be bannable. QQ</p><p>And all of this over some no name SK? QQ</p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">It's even soaked my post in tears. It's pretty sad, really.</span></p>

[Zerebro]

<p>Is the stalker some demi-god? If not, can't you mobilize something? Or pray for a KILLER-flag and put it on him? And then let the TERMINATOR NPC hunt him down?</p><p>PS: Wrong thread. This is about the website eq2players.com.</p>

[Paikis]

<p>Wait, you're saying that 1 (ONE) player, is wiping your x4 (TWENTYFOUR) and its called griefing? Did you actualy try to fight back? Individually you're nothing. Together though... lets just say that many have fallen to the grey swarm.</p><p>PVPer: *kills Carebear* Carebear: What the ****? I didn't do anything to you; why did you kill me? PVPer: You were there. Carebear: This is bull****. Go away! PVPer: *kills Carebear again* Carebear: Quit camping me! [Removed for Content] is wrong with you? PVPer: You were still there. Carebear: *logs out* -> *forums*</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">Welcome to the Jungle.</span></p>

[Zarador]

<p>You have to forgive me since I'm a PvE player that came across the post and don't clearly understand something. Why would running more than one paid account from the same IP be deamed as an exploit in any game?  I could understand any third party sniffers and such as being an exploit, but how would two-boxing ever be discouraged by any gaming company? </p>

[Starman]

<p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage.</span></blockquote><p>This would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, even if the person had the same name on their account because you don't know if the second account is for a family member.</p><p>While I understand your frustration, it would only lead to too many false positives.</p><p>Also, which games disallow this? I can't think of one.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p>lol, get some sense jeeze. Just hire a level 80 to come along for protection. I've been on a few runs that did this when we started getting killed by the opposing faction.</p><p>Coming here to complain that you are getting killed on a pvp server is just lame tbh.</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>Starman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage.</span></blockquote><p>This would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, even if the person had the same name on their account because you don't know if the second account is for a family member.</p><p>While I understand your frustration, it would only lead to too many false positives.</p><p>Also, which games disallow this? I can't think of one.</p></blockquote><p>That's what had me curious.  I always understood the rules (PvE anyway) to be "One Account = One Player" does not matter if the "2 Accounts (or more) = 1 Person".  What exactly would be the "advantage" gained by running both accounts over 2 players working together as a duo? </p>

[Dragowulf]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Starman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage.</span></blockquote><p>This would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, even if the person had the same name on their account because you don't know if the second account is for a family member.</p><p>While I understand your frustration, it would only lead to too many false positives.</p><p>Also, which games disallow this? I can't think of one.</p></blockquote><p>That's what had me curious.  I always understood the rules (PvE anyway) to be "One Account = One Player" does not matter if the "2 Accounts (or more) = 1 Person".  What exactly would be the "advantage" gained by running both accounts over 2 players working together as a duo? </p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure on the Official rules, but you can be on two accounts at the same time running your normal character as well as a low level spy to see who's in a zone.  This is an unffair advantage, but many people do it...for it is the norm.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>If he's willing to pay for a second account, and use a slot as a tracker, there's nothing against the 'rules' in this.  It's a common practice in all of the MMO's out there; where on earth did you get the impression that it was illegal?  If I want to play and I let my son play at the same time, we'd be showing from the same IP.  Anybody running a home network will.  Also, there's nothing in the 'rules' that says there is a policy against griefing.  In fact, some GM's have flat out said that there's no such thing as griefing on a PvP server as long as there is a PvP solution.  Look up some of the old posts, I think you'll find plenty of references, do a search for 'griefing pvp' and you should turn up something. </p><p>There is a PvP solution.  Get others.  I know, I've been there.  I even had a hand in it a few weeks back on an alt.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Didn't stop the 80's from coming in and mixing with the FP POF-run group.  It was funny, too, because a couple of them died to a half-group of mid-50's that had an AOE-happy Bruiser and <em>didn't</em> get the first strike.  They also would zone in after the fight started, so as to be live.  So ... ceriously, crying about not being about to exploit game mechanics because somebody else was taking advantage of the position that the exploiters were putting themselves in is kinda ... weak.  Yes, they paid plat.  So what?  I have zero sympathy for someone who gets ripped off when paying for a PoF run, or for powerlevelling, or buys plat.  I do, however, get a chuckle from it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[baldwinboy3]

<p>The other day My guild mates and I ran our first PoF run (after going on many) and was met by accesion or how ever you spell it and he and four others tried to kill us. We rolled with a full grp in this PoF run and easily defeated him. Deafeated him and friend a few times and he went away. That is the pvp solution.</p><p>Our second run he once again met us in SS where we where starting it and only had two of us running the PoF run. Most start in SS and go to CoR then to PoF at main or side camp. We where killed this time by him the entire raid. WE then revived far away and went to back side of PoF and was not bothered again.</p><p>WE found ways to get around it. Had to do PoF backwards but we made it and all got their aa as intended. Harmtocuh runs the same route each time. its easy to predicte where he goes. change it up bud</p>

[Wytie]

<p>Wow thats alot of rage in the OP.</p><p>You prob broke about 4 or 5 forum rules in the process. Enjoy this thread while it last.</p><p>I understand playing on a pvp server can be frustrating if you allow people to get to you or under your skin.</p><p>But your really just have to try and do the best you can at preventing putting your self in that kind of situation.</p><p>The reason why you make so much plat doing AA runs is because its on a pvp server and its not easy. Do you think you would be able to make anything close to that on a pve server? Prob not</p><p>Raging like this in a public forums just goes to show he/she/they got exactly the type of reaction out of you they prob wanted. Why give them what they want, once you show it doesnt matter what they do or how much of there our time they waste doing it wont be worth it anymore. But now thats too late because before this you prob logged over and raged to them in tells which made it exclate further into this.</p><p>Sorry about your luck but IB4L</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Starman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage.</span></blockquote><p>This would be IMPOSSIBLE to track, even if the person had the same name on their account because you don't know if the second account is for a family member.</p><p>While I understand your frustration, it would only lead to too many false positives.</p><p>Also, which games disallow this? I can't think of one.</p></blockquote><p>That's what had me curious.  I always understood the rules (PvE anyway) to be "One Account = One Player" does not matter if the "2 Accounts (or more) = 1 Person".  What exactly would be the "advantage" gained by running both accounts over 2 players working together as a duo? </p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure on the Official rules, but you can be on two accounts at the same time running your normal character as well as a low level spy to see who's in a zone.  This is an unffair advantage, but many people do it...for it is the norm.</p></blockquote><p>So if I have 2 accounts, pay for them both, own two systems, paid for them both, can actually walk and chew gum at the same time, I have an unfair advantage.</p><p>If on the other hand my friend sits at the PC next to me and plays his character as a low level spy, that makes it instantly fair? Oh wait, he would be on my home network, with the same IP and that would be cheating.  So much for all those internet sharing devices that almost every institution uses. Heck, he could drive down the street to Starbucks and use their WiFi so I don't break the rules...unless someone else is at Starbucks playing EQ2...I guess...</p><p>Does the OP seriously think that any online game out there looking for subs would ban players for<span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> playing</span> paying multiple subscriptions?</p><p>If on the other hand, I pay someone level 80 to escort me through a zone, for the AA, that's somehow well within good player conduct? You know, I don't belong there, but the reward will even things up somehow?</p><p>Mind boggling, realy....</p><p>Edit: I wanted to add we have the same "problems" in PvE where people moan and complain about "Multi-Boxers".  There it's because people grouped with players like the OP and decided playing three characters alone beat grouping with some players.</p>

[soibit]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if I have 2 accounts, pay for them both, own two systems, paid for them both, can actually walk and chew gum at the same time, I have an unfair advantage.</p></blockquote><p>you didnt know? i think bush made intellegnce and coordination illeagal a few years back.</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>soibitum wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if I have 2 accounts, pay for them both, own two systems, paid for them both, can actually walk and chew gum at the same time, I have an unfair advantage.</p></blockquote><p>you didnt know? i think bush made intellegnce and coordination illeagal a few years back.</p></blockquote><p><grins> I would have said he followed in Gerald Ford's footsteps, however they both would have tripped doing so...</p><p>But seriously, I'm amazed that some people can call some of the really close to exploiting activities in the game "creative" while pointing at something like two-boxing as an exploit.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But seriously, I'm amazed that some people can call some of the really close to exploiting activities in the game "creative" while pointing at something like two-boxing as an exploit.</p></blockquote><p>lol, yea, quite ridiculous...</p>

[LordRargon]

<p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Okay so after a long discussion with GM Digaida, and how she/he said that Co-Oping is legal, and that griefing is allowed... Heres they layout for you, since 9:40pm PST till NOW 11:16pm as I write this, Qeynosian player from Nagafen named Ascension, has been griefing (repeatably) killing the same players, stealing our mobs, that is obviously why we went there to kill. (POF/COR) run.</p><p>Why don't you, the company fix this. Explain to all of us what violates player harassment, i swear griefing was in that catergory.</p><p>Co-oping, for those who are familiar with it, is were you run two accounts at once from the same IP Address, most game-operating companies state that Co-Oping is a illegal form of playing, to gain the superior advantage. Co-Oping in MMORPG games is like tracking, but a better version this version of 'tracking' makes it so that player can find out what exact zone hes in, whether that player uses the guild banner or not. So the enemy whos 'tracking' that player can alt-tab onto the other account to hunt and kill the player now that he knows the general location.</p><p>Ascension, has been Griefing Harmtouch, whom is a Freeportian, for nearly two SOLID weeks, not just killing Harmtouch but wiping out a whole raid of 24 players. Thats 24 players whom PAY to PLAY. Yes we all joined this server, Nagafen for PVP, but we did not join to be harassed by the same player for nearly 2 SOLID weeks.</p><p>Most players are beginning to think hes running also, a 3rd person tracking system that doesnt require a class. Yes, there is such a thing. Yes, I strongly believe that hes using 3rd person software.</p><p>Yes I am also venting. Anyhow currently your game needs a BIG PVP fix.</p><p>1. Make Co-Oping a high bannable offense. Just as high as hacking, exploiting, buying and selling plat with real life money.</p><p>2. that 30minute (no fame/infamy gain) make it so not only do you not get fame/infamy after killing make it so they cannot grief, how you might ask, make it so he/she is non-attackable.</p><p>3. Do us a favor and ban Ascension for spamming in freeport chat on his alt account with his alt toon named Narakku. (I a have SS's), ban him for all those harassments towards griefing, ban him because this player DESERVES IT.</p></blockquote><p>Even tho I hate Ascension for being one of the most crappy players this server has to offer, I only have to say one thing to you sir...QQ MOAR!</p>

[Efrath]

<p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p></blockquote><p>yes, anything that prevents pvp is a bad thing...</p><p>there is no excuse to be complaining here. They have the means to defend themselves, but they choose to be ignorant and simply complain.</p><p>Its like newbs who come here to complain because they can't kill someone in MC. Should we ban people who kill people in treasured gear and app I's?</p><p>Preventing any type of pvp is a slippery slope and we do not need to get any closer to that edge.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>That's not griefing.  That's denying them resources.  If they hadn't paid someone else to run them through a zone designed for characters in their 50's at level 10, they would have moved on.  Instead, they had a vested interest in staying.  And the guy running it had a vested interest, a 40+ plat per run interest, in getting things moving along.  If they were botters running a farming program that repeatedly kept following the exact same path, would anyone here defend them?  Because plat is on the line they should get a free pass?  Coming here to complain about it just means that next time you can expect twice as many poeple to log alts over and rush in for the kill. </p>

[Zacarus]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That's not griefing.  That's denying them resources.  If they hadn't paid someone else to run them through a zone designed for characters in their 50's at level 10, they would have moved on.  Instead, they had a vested interest in staying.  And the guy running it had a vested interest, a 40+ plat per run interest, in getting things moving along.  If they were botters running a farming program that repeatedly kept following the exact same path, would anyone here defend them?  Because plat is on the line they should get a free pass?  Coming here to complain about it just means that next time you can expect twice as many poeple to log alts over and rush in for the kill. </p></blockquote><p>qfe</p>

[Divine_Ascension]

<p>Greetings my fellow Freeportians! Ascension here =)</p><p>I have come up with a solution to the problem at hand! STOP BUYING YOUR AA YOU PATHETIC SCRUBS!!! Go out and quest, kill named, ect for aa stop paying higher lvls to get you free aa and gain aa the way it was intended to be gained. Also for the record I do not kill any of your named, just your runner and the children of freeport in hopes that they will one day grow big and strong with such hate and rage aimed at me that they actually fight me for once... im tired of having to get my toon's legs cared for daily from chasing you noobs through zone after zone. Know how much stress it puts on the body hunting you freeps down like cattle whilst carrying 100lbs of heavy vanguard armor & equipment?</p><p>In all seriousness though I may consider calling off the carnage on your pathetic aa runs if the toon Harmtouch gives me a formal appology in way of response to this thread. The response must include an appology for always running from me 1 vs 1, grieving Q aa runs in the past, rezz zerging everytime I slaughter him and his group/raid, as well as just generally being a noob without a cause. I'll check back here later k thx =)</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Gotta love how word travels fast on the server.</p>

[Chisa]

<p>I would like to start off by saying how much a noob Ascension is.  I am a Q and I see his daily spam in 1-9.  Not only does he make no sense half the time but he acts like a flaming idiot as well.</p><p>Now that, that is out of the way! I would like to ask if you got rid of Co-Oping would that mean we cant duel box anymore? If that was the case I do not wish for this to happen.  I love being able to run myself through a zone and not ever have to look for a healer for anything.  Thats one of the things I enjoy doing in this game and do not wish to see it taken out.  I understand you have problsm with greifing.  But everyone (or most) does it.  Not me b/c I find it a waste of my time really unless their 20 mins is up.  But you are going to encounter this a lot.  It is better to not complain about it b/c no one is really going to care.  It is the internet and words 9/10 dont effect people.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Divine_Ascension wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...on your pathetic aa runs...grieving Q aa runs in the past</p></blockquote><p>lol...</p><p>anywho, its a matter of time in relation to plat.</p><p>I don't have 9 level 80 crafters because I don't really wanto spend the time doing that. Thankfully there are plenty out there willing to make stuff for me for a price, or helpful guildies who will do it at cost.</p><p>After starting my 15th alt, I get tired of killing the same named, doing the same boring quests over and over and fortunately I can do the same thing with AA as with crafting to get myself ahead of the curve.</p><p>I guess if your the kind of person who plays one toon at level 80 for months, or someone who enjoys hitting your head against a wall for hours, you might not get this...oh wellz...</p>

[Kkolbe]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p></blockquote><p>I have to agree with this guy. There is a difference between pvp and harrasment/griefing. Lets say your on a pve server, every day you log in, some guy like Ascension follows you around and steals every mob your about to kill. This happens every time you log in for weeks. This is harrasment.. This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated in Everquest 2.. This is basically what "some guy like Ascension" is doing but doing it on a pvp server. People standing up for this guy need to realize this is whats makes people quit the game.. If you want to play on a pvp server where there is a very low population, than by all means allow this kind of harrasment to keep happening..</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with this guy. There is a difference between pvp and harrasment/griefing. Lets say your on a pve server, every day you log in, some guy like Ascension follows you around and steals every mob your about to kill. This happens every time you log in for weeks. This is harrasment.. This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated in Everquest 2.. This is basically what "some guy like Ascension" is doing but doing it on a pvp server. People standing up for this guy need to realize this is whats makes people quit the game.. If you want to play on a pvp server where there is a very low population, than by all means allow this kind of harrasment to keep happening..</p></blockquote><p>No its different, in that situation you have no recourse. In this situation, you can ask for help in channel, or from guildies, or heck, since your making money doing this run, hire someone to help protect your run. Whenever there is a "pvp solution" the devs should not have to step in.</p>

[Efrath]

<p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>yes, anything that prevents pvp is a bad thing...</p><p>there is no excuse to be complaining here. They have the means to defend themselves, but they choose to be ignorant and simply complain.</p><p>Its like newbs who come here to complain because they can't kill someone in MC. Should we ban people who kill people in treasured gear and app I's?</p><p>Preventing any type of pvp is a slippery slope and we do not need to get any closer to that edge.</p></blockquote><p>Rules does not equal less PVP though. We have rules so that the game is enjoyable for the most of us, thats why level 80 players cant attack level 5 players.  Just because it prevents some forms of PVP doesnt mean its bad.  The issue here is not wether people can defend them or not but that there are players deliberatly targeting specific people and attacking them again and again for days, weeks.</p>

[Wytie]

<p>Its impossiable to get greifed now with so much purma immunity and so many revive location options, well unless you choose to allow yourself to be greifed by stubbornness blocking your commonsense abilitly to figure out something else to do or another place to go, till the person or persons leave the area you would like to be.</p><p>I havent been greifed in 3 years of leveling multiple types of toons on naggy and vene, by simply following that logic.</p><p>Wanta know a leet strats to stop a greifer dead in his tracks??     A.........F...........K</p><p>or for the impatient type.... Work on a differnt quest in a differnt zone.</p><p>People seem to get confused by thinking death or a recent list entitles you to a free pass to continue on doing whatever is you thought you wanted to do before pvp stopped you. LOL</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The issue here is not wether people can defend them or not but that there are players deliberatly targeting specific people and attacking them again and again for days, weeks.</p></blockquote><p>If they are in the same level range, how is that an issue?</p>

[Cyst]

<p><cite>Nebiru@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would like to start off by saying how much a noob Ascension is.  I am a Q and I see his daily spam in 1-9.  Not only does he make no sense half the time but he acts like a flaming idiot as well.</p></blockquote><p>We have one of these guys on Venekor too. Maybe they can form a guild together when the merge happens.</p>

[Divine_Ascension]

<p>I find it quite hilarious that someone even took the time out to post this... After laughing about that I figured out yet another solution to this problem, but before that id also like to add this... You are paying someone plat to run you around and kill a bunch of named for you. You realize that the person is many lvls higher than you and that anyone who cons to him/her can engage you? You are taking that chance when you decide to be lazy and have someone do all the work for you...</p><p> Achievement experience is granted to you when you achieve something in game, such as discovering a new area, completing a quest, killing a named mob, ect ect. Why should you be awarded achievement experience for someone else achieving something for you? Therein lies my solution... change the way achievement experience works, if you cannot recive pvp credit, quest updates, or exp while grouped with someone that many lvls higher than you why should you gain achievement xp?</p>

[Cyst]

<p><cite>Divine_Ascension wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find it quite hilarious that someone even took the time out to post this... After laughing about that I figured out yet another solution to this problem, but before that id also like to add this... You are paying someone plat to run you around and kill a bunch of named for you. You realize that the person is many lvls higher than you and that anyone who cons to him/her can engage you? You are taking that chance when you decide to be lazy and have someone do all the work for you...</p><p> Achievement experience is granted to you when you achieve something in game, such as discovering a new area, completing a quest, killing a named mob, ect ect. Why should you be awarded achievement experience for someone else achieving something for you? Therein lies my solution... change the way achievement experience works, if you cannot recive pvp credit, quest updates, or exp while grouped with someone that many lvls higher than you why should you gain achievement xp?</p></blockquote><p>What level are you? I have a little extra time to make a Freeport alt. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Divine_Ascension]

<p><cite>Dragowulf@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Whether you like being killed repeatedly or not this person is allowed to kill you because he is on the <span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Arial; white-space: pre; font-size: 13px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">opposing</span> faction.  Griefing is not illegal and shouldn't be.  It's not harassment, he sees someone on the opposing side trying to make money and he stops it however many times he feels is necessary.  Just because he finds you doesn't mean he's a "hacker", I'm sure he's quite knowledgeable in where the named are in the zone.</p><p>While I don't agree with people being an immature <em>EDIT:</em>butthead like such, I still shrug my shoulders and say <span style="text-decoration: underline;">"Hey, It's PvP".</span></p><p>I know Harmtouch and I use to be a competetor doing AA runs for the evil side, so to say "your a goody stop defending him" is pointless.  I had the same problem every now and then, maybe not to an extent, but I never once complained.  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bottom line is I knew what making a character on a PvP server entailed, and so should you.</span></p></blockquote><p>Thank you Dragowulf, and to those who seem to be new to pvp (erhm Imperias erhm) I know where you are because I know or find out the name of your runner (usually Harmtouch) and I use /assist Harmtouch to see if he is in zone. If he is it will target what he is targeting or nothing if he is not close enough. If he is not in zone it will give me the message "You have no target to assist!" Not to hard to find you by spamming that macro while flying on the carpet through the zone. Then when I find you /target Harmtouch and turn auto attack on and it will face me in his direction =) Not to mention the named on these aa runs are generally concentrated in 3 known areas...</p>

[wellehad0]

<p>lol hartouch you so funny man.. you run around being  a huge [Removed for Content] everywhere you go. all i can say is you ticked the wrong people off.. you messed with us now we give it back to you x100..  all i can say is find a new way to make money because unless you tip us 1k plat your POF days are over</p>

[Kkolbe]

<p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with this guy. There is a difference between pvp and harrasment/griefing. Lets say your on a pve server, every day you log in, some guy like Ascension follows you around and steals every mob your about to kill. This happens every time you log in for weeks. This is harrasment.. This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated in Everquest 2.. This is basically what "some guy like Ascension" is doing but doing it on a pvp server. People standing up for this guy need to realize this is whats makes people quit the game.. If you want to play on a pvp server where there is a very low population, than by all means allow this kind of harrasment to keep happening..</p></blockquote><p>No its different, in that situation you have no recourse.<strong>(No it isnt, ITS HARASSMENT.)</strong> In this situation, you can ask for help in channel, or from guildies, or heck, since your making money doing this run, hire someone to help protect your run<strong>( when the same guy runs in and ae's and one shots a raid of lvl 10's theres not much you can do)</strong>. Whenever there is a "pvp solution" the devs should not have to step in. <strong>So to be able to xp in deserted zones I have a to bring multiple people just to protect me, because the same  guy is stalking and harrasing me every day hour after hour for weeks. Good call. Yah, I'm glad you believe so firmly in harrasing people. How hard is it to see that when someone follows you around in game every day, week after week, ruining your gameplay experience and the people around you.. thats it is harassment. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE..</strong></p></blockquote>

[eu]

<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have to agree with this guy. There is a difference between pvp and harrasment/griefing. Lets say your on a pve server, every day you log in, some guy like Ascension follows you around and steals every mob your about to kill. This happens every time you log in for weeks. This is harrasment.. This kind of behavior shouldn't be tolerated in Everquest 2.. This is basically what "some guy like Ascension" is doing but doing it on a pvp server. People standing up for this guy need to realize this is whats makes people quit the game.. If you want to play on a pvp server where there is a very low population, than by all means allow this kind of harrasment to keep happening..</p></blockquote><p>No its different, in that situation you have no recourse.<strong>(No it isnt, ITS HARASSMENT.)</strong> In this situation, you can ask for help in channel, or from guildies, or heck, since your making money doing this run, hire someone to help protect your run<strong>( when the same guy runs in and ae's and one shots a raid of lvl 10's theres not much you can do)</strong>. Whenever there is a "pvp solution" the devs should not have to step in. <strong>So to be able to xp in deserted zones I have a to bring multiple people just to protect me, because the same  guy is stalking and harrasing me every day hour after hour for weeks. Good call. Yah, I'm glad you believe so firmly in harrasing people. How hard is it to see that when someone follows you around in game every day, week after week, ruining your gameplay experience and the people around you.. thats it is harassment. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE..</strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>You are correct it isnt rocket science</p><p>Lvl 10's shouldnt be in the zone in the first place</p>

[Legion2024]

<p>at lest issue a warning , if its good enough for your old fried onyx its good enough for the rest of us</p><p>SOE lets be fair now</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Legion2024 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>at lest issue a warning , if its good enough for your old fried onyx its good enough for the rest of us</p><p>SOE lets be fair now</p></blockquote><p>if no_harmtouch has joy messing with other people but cant take it when they do it back to him  then he just needs to stop doing pof runs..  this is also way differnt then the problem onyx had. what onyx was doing was killing a mob there own lvl what harmtouch is doing is making money off killing mobs for lower players.. </p><p>like i said harmtouch if you want to keep doing POF runs then pay us 1k plat and we will leave you alone.. other then that all i can say is you picked a fight with the wrong toons and now its payback time.. so enough of the QQ and find a new way to make money pof days are over</p>

[Portbott]

<p>10 plat says that all this thread will do is get AA runs taken away.</p>

[Kkolbe]

<p><span ><p><cite>Legion2024 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>at lest issue a warning , if its good enough for your old fried onyx its good enough for the rest of us</p><p>SOE lets be fair now</p></blockquote><p>if no_harmtouch has joy messing with other people but cant take it when they do it back to him  then he just needs to stop doing pof runs..  this is also way differnt then the problem onyx had. what onyx was doing was killing a mob there own lvl what harmtouch is doing is making money off killing mobs for lower players.. </p><p>like i said harmtouch if you want to keep doing POF runs then pay us 1k plat and we will leave you alone.. other then that all i can say is you picked a fight with the wrong toons and now its payback time.. so enough of the QQ and find a new way to make money pof days are over</p></span></p><p><cite>Portbott@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>10 plat says that all this thread will do is get AA runs taken away.</p></blockquote><p>If aa runs bring out this kind of hate in-game, then maybe they should take aa runs away.. Seems like it has brought back the harassment/griefing that soe tried to do away with years ago when people camped spawn points..</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p>Its only griefing if you go back.  You too can stop griefing - go somewhere else.</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p><cite>Divine_Ascension wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Achievement experience is granted to you when you achieve something in game, such as discovering a new area, completing a quest, killing a named mob, ect ect. Why should you be awarded achievement experience for someone else achieving something for you? Therein lies my solution... change the way achievement experience works, if you cannot recive pvp credit, quest updates, or exp while grouped with someone that many lvls higher than you why should you gain achievement xp?</p></blockquote><p>agreed!</p>

[Lleren]

<p>I hope AA runs are here to stay, more targets is a good thing.</p><p>Its PvP, someone linked the rules for this situation in this thread.  You signed up for this very thing.</p><p>The original poster should take along some other high levels to help guard his Raid of low level players.  Except thatthen he would need to split the plat.</p>

[Shangu]

<p><cite>Paikis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wait, you're saying that 1 (ONE) player, is wiping your x4 (TWENTYFOUR) and its called griefing? Did you actualy try to fight back? Individually you're nothing. Together though... lets just say that many have fallen to the grey swarm.</p><p>PVPer: *kills Carebear* Carebear: What the ****? I didn't do anything to you; why did you kill me? PVPer: You were there. Carebear: This is bull****. Go away! PVPer: *kills Carebear again* Carebear: Quit camping me! [Removed for Content] is wrong with you? PVPer: You were still there. Carebear: *logs out* -> *forums*</p><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;">Welcome to the Jungle.</span></p></blockquote><p>Unless you are one person ruining Onyx's attempt to pull an Avatar the above applies, otherwise you are commiting an offense and will be banned. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Svetty]

<p>Seriously, a post because someone is killing your easymode aa experience?  Wow, just wow...</p>

[Dh]

<p>Divine_Ascension - Please edit and remove the post you made at 08/05/2009 14:58:34  thank you</p>

[Sadussa]

<p><cite>Imperias@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do know what making a pvp player is entailed too. Rules are susceptible to change, and thats why I am bringing this to attention, that is if you havent noticed.</p></blockquote><p>Yea lets make it so that everytime your killed more then once by the same person you can report it.  pffft give me a break they couldnt hire enough people.  The guild that sounds like kronix keeps em busy enough.</p><p>What he is doing may not seem fair but alot thing are open to interpitation.  For example...Is it fair to kill a grey in an open zone where he has zero chance? You dont get any thing for it cept faction if your not maxed out already but I kill em every chance I get..why? First reason because greys can attack you, if you leave them lurking around they will certainly jump in if your attacked.  Second is I want to do every thing I can to slow the progression of my enemy...So if I chose I could sit in kp2 and kill people over n over keeping them from doing quest...Will I do that? naaah not worth my time...will i kill when i come across em? u bet.</p><p>The best thing you can do is have people ready to deal with this arsehat every time he starts..put in channel that he just got 100plat off your toon or have people there to grief the griefer eventually people who do this will get tired of getting owned themselves. </p><p>Typical school yard bullies dont like it when they get bullied <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Kkolbe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>No its different, in that situation you have no recourse.<strong>(No it isnt, ITS HARASSMENT.)</strong> In this situation, you can ask for help in channel, or from guildies, or heck, since your making money doing this run, hire someone to help protect your run<strong>( when the same guy runs in and ae's and one shots a raid of lvl 10's theres not much you can do)</strong>. Whenever there is a "pvp solution" the devs should not have to step in. <strong>So to be able to xp in deserted zones I have a to bring multiple people just to protect me, because the same  guy is stalking and harrasing me every day hour after hour for weeks. Good call. Yah, I'm glad you believe so firmly in harrasing people. How hard is it to see that when someone follows you around in game every day, week after week, ruining your gameplay experience and the people around you.. thats it is harassment. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE..</strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>lol, its not harassment, its pvp...</p><p>the level 10s group with a higher level, they know the risks. You go out into the the world, you risk running into pvp. Would it be a different situation, if, instead of the same person, it was a different person coming in everyday and killing him? Cmon, think man. Its a pvp server, you go out into the world, you say, here I am, FIGHT ME! ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! I'm still not able to understand why Harmtouch is unable to defend himself. Is this "other person" some sort of pvp god? And like I said, if they just got someone to help protect the run, it would not be an issue. Someone shouldnt be able to just run in an aoe, but if they did get by the guards, you killem, rez and move on. There is only so much they can do.</p>

[Divine_Ascension]

<p>Ascension, has been Griefing Harmtouch, whom is a Freeportian, for nearly two SOLID weeks, not just killing Harmtouch but wiping out a whole raid of 24 players.</p><p>Wait, you're saying that 1 (ONE) player, is wiping your x4 (TWENTYFOUR) and its called griefing? Did you actualy try to fight back? Individually you're nothing. Together though... lets just say that many have fallen to the grey swarm.</p><p>Our second run he once again met us in SS where we where starting it and only had two of us running the PoF run. Most start in SS and go to CoR then to PoF at main or side camp. We where killed this time by him the entire raid.</p><p>I'm still not able to understand why Harmtouch is unable to defend himself. Is this "other person" some sort of pvp god?</p><p>LOL! All you can really do is lol... 60 sk > 63 sk and his raid >.<</p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p></blockquote><p>Dude seriously i dont even play PVP anymore and i can honestly say this must be your first pvp experiance ever, i mean really? pvp is pvp if it can be solved by pvp then its free game</p>

[raydenwins]

<p>I'd hire a few higher lvl to roll with your aa run. The SK that grieves daily is typical Q mischief. It gets pretty boring watching the op sk class solo reds, then pat themselves on the back like they're [Removed for Content]. Please.   AA runs are fine by me, since I work for a living, I don't have the time to quest like some do that sit around all day and grief, meh. </p>

[Bloodfa]

<p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd hire a few higher lvl to roll with your aa run. The SK that grieves daily is typical Q mischief. It gets pretty boring watching the op sk class solo reds, then pat themselves on the back like they're [Removed for Content]. Please.   AA runs are fine by me, since I work for a living, I don't have the time to quest like some do that sit around all day and grief, meh. </p></blockquote><p>Both sides do it (all 3, actually, as I've seen exiles there too).  So it's typical PvP mischief.  And what does working full time have to do with anything?  Or being a full time student, or parent, for that matter?  Sacrifice your sleep like I do, dammit!  The human body can get by just fine on less than 5 hours a night, no excuses!  Man up!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Divine_Ascension]

<p><cite><p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd hire a few higher lvl to roll with your aa run. The SK that grieves daily is typical Q mischief. It gets pretty boring watching the op sk class solo reds, then pat themselves on the back like they're [Removed for Content]. Please.   AA runs are fine by me, since I work for a living, I don't have the time to quest like some do that sit around all day and grief, meh. </p></blockquote><p>The sk excuse is invalid because its sk vs sk only difference is he is higher lvl than me, in a teir higher gear, and always has help with him. Me > him, Me > you, vent to the message boards as you are doing now.</p></cite></p><p><cite>Paikis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PVPer: *kills Carebear* Carebear: What the ****? I didn't do anything to you; why did you kill me? PVPer: You were there. Carebear: This is bull****. Go away! PVPer: *kills Carebear again* Carebear: Quit camping me! [Removed for Content] is wrong with you? PVPer: You were still there. Carebear: *logs out* -> *forums*</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000; font-size: medium;">Welcome to the Jungle.</span></p></blockquote><p>Well said.</p>

[raydenwins]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd hire a few higher lvl to roll with your aa run. The SK that grieves daily is typical Q mischief. It gets pretty boring watching the op sk class solo reds, then pat themselves on the back like they're [Removed for Content]. Please.   AA runs are fine by me, since I work for a living, I don't have the time to quest like some do that sit around all day and grief, meh. </p></blockquote><p>Both sides do it (all 3, actually, as I've seen exiles there too).  So it's typical PvP mischief.  And what does working full time have to do with anything?  Or being a full time student, or parent, for that matter?  Sacrifice your sleep like I do, dammit!  The human body can get by just fine on less than 5 hours a night, no excuses!  Man up!</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>2 hours is all I left per night to game, I've noticed some of the more infamous people on all times of the day on occassion.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2 hours is all I left per night to game, I've noticed some of the more infamous people on all times of the day on occassion.</p></blockquote><p>how exactly do you notice that if your only on 2 hours a night?</p>

[raydenwins]

<p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2 hours is all I left per night to game, I've noticed some of the more infamous people on all times of the day on occassion.</p></blockquote><p>how exactly do you notice that if your only on 2 hours a night?</p></blockquote><p>sampled from sick / vaca day.  It doesn't take too many times to notice someone is on constantly</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2 hours is all I left per night to game, I've noticed some of the more infamous people on all times of the day on occassion.</p></blockquote><p>how exactly do you notice that if your only on 2 hours a night?</p></blockquote><p>sampled from sick / vaca day.  It doesn't take too many times to notice someone is on constantly</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, sick/vacation/holiday logins are usually amusing. </p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, sick/vacation/holiday logins are usually amusing. </p></blockquote><p>Its like peering into a strange new world...oh THIS is what its like to play during the day : )</p>

[Killque]

<p>I thought the servers were in maintenance from 8am - 5pm M-F! You mean people can still play during these times?</p>

[Svetty]

<p><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>2 hours is all I left per night to game, I've noticed some of the more infamous people on all times of the day on occassion.</blockquote><p>I only have a few hours a night to play, too, but I still have 8 or more unspent aa's on all my characters because they are capped. </p><p>Really, it doesn't take that long to get aa's if you just lock adventure xp and quest xp.  Then no one has to worry about dropping a bunch of pp for aa runs that are going to get disrupted by pvp.   </p>

[Azekah1]

<p>I've been on maybe 5 or 6 pof runs. Ive never been on one where pvp interupted it for more than a few minutes.</p>

[thephantomposter]

<p>If you start a toon on the freeport side, you do all 10+ quests in the 3 starting areas, you will get 7-9 AAs each. That is 21-27 AAs at lvl 10 if you wanted, I usually lock at 12 and get MC'ed up. I am lvl 37 and still have AAs left over and I have not done any AA runs.</p><p>I think the exchange system is perfect for those who do not want to lvl up, buy a toon to bypass all the lvling up.</p><p>Getting AA or experience for just grouping and not actually doing anything does not make sense to me.</p>

[Efrath]

<p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p></blockquote><p>Dude seriously i dont even play PVP anymore and i can honestly say this must be your first pvp experiance ever, i mean really? pvp is pvp if it can be solved by pvp then its free game</p></blockquote><p>...</p><p><img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PVP =/= harassment, what's so hard to understand? It can be verbal or done trough other forms. If a person targets a SINGLE person for weeks and weeks for the purpose of ruining their gameplay, it should be something that GM's should help with.</p><p>OH I'M SORRY THAT I DONT AGREE, THAT MUST MAKE ME NEW AT PVP RIGHT? Just because I think that harassment isn't okay? So just because it's within PVP it's all okay? And no, it can't be solved trough PVP. If a person targets a SPECIFIC person on PURPOSE, PVP wont change ANYTHING as the harassment will continue, the player will keep targeting the same player over and over again even if he defends himself and wins at times.</p><p>What I'm AGAINST is not the PVP itself but rather the behaviour and purpose.</p>

[Legion2024]

<p>1) were you killing mobs when your aa run was atked and killed 2)did the player/players keep coming back by any mean available3) was YOUR ZONE DISRUPEDif so SOE issue a warning</p>

[Creatu]

I remember a certain exile who griefed the low lvls that tried to do the betrayal quest. A GM warned him about it. Isn´t this similar? The GMs need to talk to eachother and follow the same rules

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heh...</p><p>Just because it's a PVP server doesn't mean you should be entitled to harass people. Why is this so hard to understand? Would you call out "Carebear" if you got banned from the forums or muted on OOC chat when you said offensive things? Just because it's a PVP server, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that involves PVP should be allowed, just like being able to post in a forum or chat ingame doesn't mean you can POST WHATEVER YOU WANT.</p><p>Is this hard to comprehend? Really, would it be THAT bad if SOE prevented harsh griefing and such? What bad things could THIS possibly lead to? As I see it, we'd lose some players that we're probably off better without.</p></blockquote><p>Dude seriously i dont even play PVP anymore and i can honestly say this must be your first pvp experiance ever, i mean really? pvp is pvp if it can be solved by pvp then its free game</p></blockquote><p>...</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>PVP =/= harassment, what's so hard to understand? It can be verbal or done trough other forms. If a person targets a SINGLE person for weeks and weeks for the purpose of ruining their gameplay, it should be something that GM's should help with.</p><p>OH I'M SORRY THAT I DONT AGREE, THAT MUST MAKE ME NEW AT PVP RIGHT? Just because I think that harassment isn't okay? So just because it's within PVP it's all okay? And no, it can't be solved trough PVP. If a person targets a SPECIFIC person on PURPOSE, PVP wont change ANYTHING as the harassment will continue, the player will keep targeting the same player over and over again even if he defends himself and wins at times.</p><p>What I'm AGAINST is not the PVP itself but rather the behaviour and purpose.</p></blockquote><p>sorry man but you are so far off it almost makes me laugh</p><p>first hartouch started it by messing with us...  </p><p>second everytime we have killed him he had no mobs on him.. im sorry but this is pvp server and why should Q's let freeps build GOD like toons..  wihout trying to stop them.</p><p>3rd hartouch is a higher lvl then the main person who he is crying about.. its not the other persons fault that a the yellow harmtouch can kill a blue...</p><p>whats next are we going to start asking to disable pvp for AA runs? why dont we just turn off pvp for questing.. heck i know we can just have a flag system that you can toggle on and off when you wish to pvp...  all i can say is grow up harmtouch you are getting owned in a fight you picked..  just so you dont think you are so special that we pick on just you, we would like you to know that we where more then happy to mess with another freeps AA run today.. so yes harmtouch when we see you out there we will come right away to ruin it but odds are it can b any random freep running it and if we aint busy then we will come and crash the party..</p><p>all i can say is good luch freeps on your AA run.. cause only way its going to happen if we know about it is if you pay many many 80's to gaurd you (wich will eat into your profit). now please stop with the QQ and sort it out in pvp. are you can just admit harmtouch that you dont know how to play your class very well and you have no idea how to win a fight..</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Creatu wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I remember a certain exile who griefed the low lvls that tried to do the betrayal quest. A GM warned him about it. Isn´t this similar? The GMs need to talk to eachother and follow the same rules</blockquote><p>way of base.. its differnt when a lvl 80 exile is griefing lvl 10's from doing a quest that they have no way around.. there is a simple way around POF runs DONT DO IT... POF runs have nothing to do with stoping you from game play what so ever</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Griefing has, and always will be lame. I love griefing the griefers because they're the first to cry about it.</p><p>I think what many of you fail to realize is that your enemy is your friend. Without your enemy, you don't have PvP, period. Griefing is childish, and you wouldn't act that way over a poker game, over a football game, or any other game, or would you?</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Griefing has, and always will be lame. I love griefing the griefers because they're the first to cry about it.</p><p>I think what many of you fail to realize is that your enemy is your friend. Without your enemy, you don't have PvP, period. Griefing is childish, and you wouldn't act that way over a poker game, over a football game, or any other game, or would you?</p></blockquote><p>i guess you are right.. hartouch loves to grief yet when it happens to him he even has the nerver for a whole thread to be made about his QQ over it somming back to him..  oh well i guess everybody all knows hartouch sucks now so he might as well pay for a name change or just /delete the toon. his rep is now all the way gone</p>

[Magius789]

<p><cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Griefing has, and always will be lame. I love griefing the griefers because they're the first to cry about it.</p><p>I think what many of you fail to realize is that your enemy is your friend. Without your enemy, you don't have PvP, period. Griefing is childish, and you wouldn't act that way over a poker game, over a football game, or any other game, or would you?</p></blockquote><p>i guess you are right.. hartouch loves to grief yet when it happens to him he even has the nerver for a whole thread to be made about his QQ over it somming back to him..  oh well i guess everybody all knows hartouch sucks now so he might as well pay for a name change or just /delete the toon. his rep is now all the way gone</p></blockquote><p>Sorry to burst your bubble but thats not how freeport views harmtouch.  I've been on a handful of his AA runs and they are nothing like you are describing.  The times I've been on his raids and we have seen another Q AA run going we have never messed with them and have let both runs do their thing.  In fact one run we let be only to have the three people running it finish their run and come over and start grieving our run.  In terms of his PvP ability I've seen him take on three people two of which were higher lvl than him.  The two higher lvl toons were a general ranger and a swashy and the lower lvl person was a warden who was only 2 lvls below him and he wiped them all, even when they started zerging AND a lvl 50 something mage joined in.  So he knows how to PvP and he knows his class well atleast from what I have seen.</p><p>In terms of his reputation well I'm sure some people will disagree but for the most part you'll find most people in Freeport agree that his AA runs are the best.  I think this is also evident by the fact that you Q's will do anything to disrupt his AA runs.  So I'm pretty sure he doesn't need to pay any money to change his name because is rep. is just fine.</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyst@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Griefing has, and always will be lame. I love griefing the griefers because they're the first to cry about it.</p><p>I think what many of you fail to realize is that your enemy is your friend. Without your enemy, you don't have PvP, period. Griefing is childish, and you wouldn't act that way over a poker game, over a football game, or any other game, or would you?</p></blockquote><p>i guess you are right.. hartouch loves to grief yet when it happens to him he even has the nerver for a whole thread to be made about his QQ over it somming back to him..  oh well i guess everybody all knows hartouch sucks now so he might as well pay for a name change or just /delete the toon. his rep is now all the way gone</p></blockquote><p>Sorry to burst your bubble but thats not how freeport views harmtouch.  I've been on a handful of his AA runs and they are nothing like you are describing.  The times I've been on his raids and we have seen another Q AA run going we have never messed with them and have let both runs do their thing.  In fact one run we let be only to have the three people running it finish their run and come over and start grieving our run.  In terms of his PvP ability I've seen him take on three people two of which were higher lvl than him.  The two higher lvl toons were a general ranger and a swashy and the lower lvl person was a warden who was only 2 lvls below him and he wiped them all, even when they started zerging AND a lvl 50 something mage joined in.  So he knows how to PvP and he knows his class well atleast from what I have seen.</p><p>In terms of his reputation well I'm sure some people will disagree but for the most part you'll find most people in Freeport agree that his AA runs are the best.  I think this is also evident by the fact that you Q's will do anything to disrupt his AA runs.  So I'm pretty sure he doesn't need to pay any money to change his name because is rep. is just fine.</p></blockquote><p>of course he would not mes with other people's run while he is running that is just suicide..  but yes he messed with one of are runs so like i said we mess with him</p>

[wellehad0]

<p>wait wait hartouch going to run another POF run in a few lets see how it goes for him.. lol silly hartouch we see you spamming on the freep side that you need help.. see there is a pvp solution and you used it.. good luck man.. but really man is it worth it to pay people to come kill us.. lol whats sad when we come we reck almost all your group wich was all reds and oranges to us and wha tdo you do harmtouch you hide and let them fight ad you only came in when you saw a 80 on us..   now you really need to have your runs recked</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wait wait hartouch going to run another POF run in a few lets see how it goes for him.. lol silly hartouch we see you spamming on the freep side that you need help.. see there is a pvp solution and you used it.. good luck man.. but really man is it worth it to pay people to come kill us.. lol whats sad when we come we reck almost all your group wich was all reds and oranges to us and wha tdo you do harmtouch you hide and let them fight ad you only came in when you saw a 80 on us..   now you really need to have your runs recked</p></blockquote><p>wait wait so you brought 80's so we brought 80;s your 80's got wiped..  we log back in the 50-60's and what do you do you run some more and let all the people that came to protect you die why you run or evac...  well it was fun protecting the contested zone from the silly freeps.. glad you had fun and hope you where nice enough to give refunds once again</p><p>wait now you came back with about 4x the amount of people that we have and you guys still ahd to rez zerg about 10 times to take us down wow just wow</p><p>another sad thing is you guy all had about 7 lvls on us and of course we had to chase down hartouch because once again he left his peeps</p>

[Efrath]

<p><cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>sorry man but you are so far off it almost makes me laugh</p><p>first hartouch started it by messing with us...  </p><p>second everytime we have killed him he had no mobs on him.. im sorry but this is pvp server and why should Q's let freeps build GOD like toons..  wihout trying to stop them.</p><p>3rd hartouch is a higher lvl then the main person who he is crying about.. its not the other persons fault that a the yellow harmtouch can kill a blue...</p><p>whats next are we going to start asking to disable pvp for AA runs? why dont we just turn off pvp for questing.. heck i know we can just have a flag system that you can toggle on and off when you wish to pvp...  all i can say is grow up harmtouch you are getting owned in a fight you picked..  just so you dont think you are so special that we pick on just you, we would like you to know that we where more then happy to mess with another freeps AA run today.. so yes harmtouch when we see you out there we will come right away to ruin it but odds are it can b any random freep running it and if we aint busy then we will come and crash the party..</p><p>all i can say is good luch freeps on your AA run.. cause only way its going to happen if we know about it is if you pay many many 80's to gaurd you (wich will eat into your profit). now please stop with the QQ and sort it out in pvp. are you can just admit harmtouch that you dont know how to play your class very well and you have no idea how to win a fight..</p></blockquote><p>No no no, you're misunderstanding me, it's the harassing I'm against. I've never been on any AA runs :V I don't really mind if you kill Harmtouch, I was more against purposely searching and aiming on a single person at all times for the purpose to annoy and ruin the gameplay. It seems to me you're not actually harassing him though.</p>

[wellehad0]

<p><cite>Efrath@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>sorry man but you are so far off it almost makes me laugh</p><p>first hartouch started it by messing with us...  </p><p>second everytime we have killed him he had no mobs on him.. im sorry but this is pvp server and why should Q's let freeps build GOD like toons..  wihout trying to stop them.</p><p>3rd hartouch is a higher lvl then the main person who he is crying about.. its not the other persons fault that a the yellow harmtouch can kill a blue...</p><p>whats next are we going to start asking to disable pvp for AA runs? why dont we just turn off pvp for questing.. heck i know we can just have a flag system that you can toggle on and off when you wish to pvp...  all i can say is grow up harmtouch you are getting owned in a fight you picked..  just so you dont think you are so special that we pick on just you, we would like you to know that we where more then happy to mess with another freeps AA run today.. so yes harmtouch when we see you out there we will come right away to ruin it but odds are it can b any random freep running it and if we aint busy then we will come and crash the party..</p><p>all i can say is good luch freeps on your AA run.. cause only way its going to happen if we know about it is if you pay many many 80's to gaurd you (wich will eat into your profit). now please stop with the QQ and sort it out in pvp. are you can just admit harmtouch that you dont know how to play your class very well and you have no idea how to win a fight..</p></blockquote><p>No no no, you're misunderstanding me, it's the harassing I'm against. I've never been on any AA runs :V I don't really mind if you kill Harmtouch, I was more against purposely searching and aiming on a single person at all times for the purpose to annoy and ruin the gameplay. It seems to me you're not actually harassing him though.</p></blockquote><p>like i said we dont really care who runs the runs if they freeps running it the party crashers are going to stop it.... its just we take it really personal when harmtouch does nothing but run his mouth in freep chat about how he is going to roll us with all the peeps he will bring.. funny thing is once again POF RUN IS OVA we win harmtouch you loose again QQ</p>

[Azekah1]

<p>this thread is so full of QQ</p>

[baldwinboy3]

<p>I have ran a few AA runs now and only twice Accession has came to wipe us. once we wiped him plus friends another time he wiped us and we did the PoF run backwards and he did not find us again.</p><p>I think its great you spend your time killing the raids of AA runs makes it more of a challenge. It does not matter if we die once or twice and have to rev, big deal becuase its part of the game. We need to stop being noob CAREBEAR'S in pvp. ITS pvp your gonna die.</p><p>In the same token when you encounter accession in pvp in open world somewhere if he does not have the advantage he runs, even runs after being engaged. I do admit he is one tough SoB to kill and should be with his gear and adornments on that sk. He rolls in the best of the best.</p><p>Fact is this is PvP server if you dont want to die to PvP stay in dungeons or go to PVE server.  Or learn your class and gear, spell, and AA up and kick his butt</p><p>/carebear pvp ftl</p>

[Nimbrithil]

<p>OK im not about to read through 6 pages of useless drivel so I"ll cut right to the heart of the matter.</p><p>There is no way they can ban mutlytiple accuo</p><p>nts from the same IP. I mean how many of us know a wife/husband combo? get real.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p>Best thread ever. </p><p>Can we get corpse shards back so death will be actually meaningful?</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Best thread ever. </p><p>Can we get corpse shards back so death will be actually meaningful?</p></blockquote><p>Corpse runs alone would bring so much back to PvP.  Not shards, but actual corpse runs, like from EQ1.  Necro's would make a fortune. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Actually, now that I think about it, corpse shards would be cool too.  Make it so you could earn it back off somebody else's death, to keep from having a raid cover the shards to keep folks gimped.  Hey, Olihin, I've got a suggestion for ya ... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p>

[max.power]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Best thread ever. </p><p>Can we get corpse shards back so death will be actually meaningful?</p></blockquote><p>Corpse runs alone would bring so much back to PvP.  Not shards, but actual corpse runs, like from EQ1.  Necro's would make a fortune. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>Actually, now that I think about it, corpse shards would be cool too.  Make it so you could earn it back off somebody else's death, to keep from having a raid cover the shards to keep folks gimped.  Hey, Olihin, I've got a suggestion for ya ... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>There could be many things dropping from PvP encounters: Void shards, masters, rares... based on how strong the encounter was (solo, group, raid). Like mobs/nameds in instances. Would lessen the need to do PvE stuff. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Best thread ever. </p><p>Can we get corpse shards back so death will be actually meaningful?</p></blockquote><p>Corpse runs alone would bring so much back to PvP.  Not shards, but actual corpse runs, like from EQ1.  Necro's would make a fortune. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>Actually, now that I think about it, corpse shards would be cool too.  Make it so you could earn it back off somebody else's death, to keep from having a raid cover the shards to keep folks gimped.  Hey, Olihin, I've got a suggestion for ya ... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>There could be many things dropping from PvP encounters: Void shards, masters, rares... based on how strong the encounter was (solo, group, raid). Like mobs/nameds in instances. Would lessen the need to do PvE stuff. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>one of the best things they could do to even out the game would be body drps and the elimination of the no-trade tag on the pvp servers, imo -- raiders would lose their inherent advantage as folks would be able to buy raid gear from the broker and people would tend to run in gear that they felt that they could afford to lose i.e. mc gear, in any event.  /sigh wont happen.  Soe would rather tie itself into knots making up gimpped restrictions to help feed the carebear.</p>

[baldwinboy3]

<p>i really like those ideas about drops form pvp chest. It is a PvP server and would encourage pvp a lot.</p>

[max.power]

<p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i really like those ideas about drops form pvp chest. It is a PvP server and would encourage pvp a lot.</p></blockquote><p>Should be "out-of-the-air" generated items though. Armironhead's suggestion of equipment dropping is the worst thing this game could happen to.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i really like those ideas about drops form pvp chest. It is a PvP server and would encourage pvp a lot.</p></blockquote><p>Should be "out-of-the-air" generated items though. Armironhead's suggestion of equipment dropping is the worst thing this game could happen to.</p></blockquote><p>hardly.  Body drps promote an equal playing field.  In games where there is a risk of losing gear, people tend only to bring what is expendable.  In eq2, that would equate to mc and treasured gear.  Thus, you would not see big differences in gear disrupting pvp because people would as a consequence of game dynamics limit what they bring to the field.  So if you are for "skill" being the primary determinative in pvp then you should favor body drps.  Of course if you want gear to be the primary determinative, well then you support the current system. </p>

[Azol]

Pretty sound reasoning. +1

[Bloodfa]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i really like those ideas about drops form pvp chest. It is a PvP server and would encourage pvp a lot.</p></blockquote><p>Should be "out-of-the-air" generated items though. Armironhead's suggestion of equipment dropping is the worst thing this game could happen to.</p></blockquote><p>hardly.  Body drps promote an equal playing field.  In games where there is a risk of losing gear, people tend only to bring what is expendable.  In eq2, that would equate to mc and treasured gear.  Thus, you would not see big differences in gear disrupting pvp because people would as a consequence of game dynamics limit what they bring to the field.  So if you are for "skill" being the primary determinative in pvp then you should favor body drps.  Of course if you want gear to be the primary determinative, well then you support the current system. </p></blockquote><p>On the flip side of the argument, though, you would have the habitual cheaters ... well, cheating.  And not losing anything.  Think about the fact that there is nothing to lose <em>as it stands now</em>, yet some people still cheat.  Imagine how many more would when something other than ego was on the line?</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>You know the best part is that the same person doing the AA run is 2 boxing , and killing the AA run he is hosting. </p><p>It really is genius you know, he is taking your cash and killing you on his alt . </p><p>Im not kidding you will see , just watch he stops moving when the other attacks . </p>

[Chisa]

<p>You know this is getting a bit out of hand here.......</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p><cite>Nebiru@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know this is getting a bit out of hand here.......</p></blockquote><p>And the sun sets at the end of every day.  It is the cycle of things.</p><p><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brain@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>baldwinboy3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i really like those ideas about drops form pvp chest. It is a PvP server and would encourage pvp a lot.</p></blockquote><p>Should be "out-of-the-air" generated items though. Armironhead's suggestion of equipment dropping is the worst thing this game could happen to.</p></blockquote><p>hardly.  Body drps promote an equal playing field.  In games where there is a risk of losing gear, people tend only to bring what is expendable.  In eq2, that would equate to mc and treasured gear.  Thus, you would not see big differences in gear disrupting pvp because people would as a consequence of game dynamics limit what they bring to the field.  So if you are for "skill" being the primary determinative in pvp then you should favor body drps.  Of course if you want gear to be the primary determinative, well then you support the current system. </p></blockquote><p>On the flip side of the argument, though, you would have the habitual cheaters ... well, cheating.  And not losing anything.  Think about the fact that there is nothing to lose <em>as it stands now</em>, yet some people still cheat.  Imagine how many more would when something other than ego was on the line?</p></blockquote><p>you will always have some form of cheating in every game.  hence, in games where there is body drps the players will tell you that the number one rule is dont bring anything that you cant afford to lose.  if body drps were implemented here and you followed that rule and someone cheats causing you lose a piece of mc gear, it would be annoying but hardly a big deal.  IMO the benefit obtained from promoting players to use mc gear as the standard equipment would outweigh the realtively slight cheating issues in this game.  BTW the fact that body drps control player behavior through a social process is significant.  For instance compare the recent proposed gear restrictions for locked characters -- its clear that if soe was to compel gear restrictions as the pvp indicated soe would do with the lvl locked chars it would force itself to implement all sorts of complicated coding changes which would unleash significant unforseen consequences.  With body drps, soe could obtain similar results, but with significantly less tinkering with the game rules and code.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Amironhead, I can't argue that post, because it's a good one. </p><p>Just an aside, if they ever did go that route somewhere down the line, the value of Incarnadine clusters would increase twenty-fold.  Jewelers and armorers would own the markets.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Amironhead, I can't argue that post, because it's a good one. </p><p>Just an aside, if they ever did go that route somewhere down the line, the value of Incarnadine clusters would increase twenty-fold.  Jewelers and armorers would own the markets.</p></blockquote><p>ts'ers love (or at least should love) body drps since it makes people actually want their goods.  /sigh imagine a world where everyone was happy.  this being soe, it wont happen <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>