[Image heavy] I'm TIRED of being a raid "noob." Help, please? [Archive]

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Azei

08-02-2009, 12:28 AM

Hi all!Ignorance is not a crime, but doing nothing about it is.I've been playing for about a year, and have only been level 80 for a few months. I want to raid! But I don't think I'm uber enough. I've been focusing on upgrading my gear--concentrating on my heal crit... possibly to the detriment of my heal amount. I am looking for some inquisitor mentorship if there are any good samaritans out there who are willing to impart their wisdom.<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Stats8609.jpg" />That's me!Achievement trees:<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT1.jpg" /><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT2.jpg" /><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT3.jpg" />Gear:Righteous Mithril Epaulets, Gauntlets, and Helm (T2 shard armor)Pious Steel Breastplate and Greaves (T1 shard armor)<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear1.jpg" /><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear2.jpg" />And two of these:<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear3.jpg" />Also, all heal spells are at least Expert, if not Master. Almost all spells are Expert.Well, that's my char. I don't want to embarass myself on raids. Am I doing something glaringly wrong? Is there some critical piece of gear that I am missing? Other than "as high as possible" what should I be aiming to get my heal amt and crit heal up to?Thanks in advance for any and all help! And thanks in advance for answering in a contructive way!--Azei.

steelbadger

08-02-2009, 07:56 AM

Firstly, let me just say that if you are as concerned with healing as your AA spec and gear suggest then you would probably be better served by betraying to Templar. Inquisitor have a few unique buffs to offer a raid and bypassing those for pure healing power just makes you a less useful templar. I'll give two options for progression, one is a full heal Inquis setup and the other will be a more popular Inquisitor melee buffer setup.<cite>Azei wrote:</cite><blockquote>Achievement trees:<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT1.jpg" /></blockquote>I'll start here as your persona window should fall into line if we look at the other stuff.Heal Setup: Stamina and Int lines, fine for healing. I can see why you put 8 points in wisdom (though you would be better served having those points pretty much anywhere else) but I cannot see any reason at all to have 8 points in turn undead. That AA is situational at best and useless at worst.Your INT line spec is also a bit strange. 8 in INT, 8 in that nuke, 5 in crit and 8 in cast speed. But not bothering with divine recovery? If you're going INT then Divine Recovery is well worth it. I'd recommend something more like 4,4,6,8,2 in INT.Stamina line is ok, though Divine Aura is very lack-lustre. If you have got aggro and need to use that ability in a raid then something has gone very wrong indeed and it probably wont prevent a wipe. And most raid mobs will hit for more than 50% of yout HP anyway, so it becomes even less useful. Stick those 2 points into melee crit instead is my suggestion, you have some buffs in your TSO tree that rely on your crits to proc em (though you don't have enough AAs to get there yet).You now have 21 spare points to spend. I'd recommend putting them into the agility line 4,4,5,8. Shield Ally is a decent ability for the pure healing cleric.I personally am a fan of Steadfast at the end of the STR line (and bolt of power is ok dps too). Personally I'm specced STR for steadfast and bolt, AGI for double attack and some shield and STA for melee and heal crits. Though I can see the attraction of INT and cast speed with our slow cast times.<cite>Azei wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT2.jpg" /></blockquote>Kind of OK, the Inquis tree isn't really going to make or break your healing. What I would say is get some points in Strike of Flames and the Battle Cleric endline, it's good survability. Dump the points in Act of War enhance. Act of War is completely useless both with and without this AA. As for the rest it's all pretty meh and down to you.<cite>Azei wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/AT3.jpg" /></blockquote>I know you want to be a good healer but you're missing out on some of the most powerful AAs available with this setup.Generic: I prefer the HP and Power AAs here, as they actually have an effect in a fight.Priest: Litany of Combat is a lot of extra damage and well worth getting. Enhancing Protective prayer is a bit pointless because most Inquisitors don't use it. Use the concentration to run an extra Tenacity, mit is fairly useless anyway, even if you happen to be in the MT group.Cleric: You can make a pretty good argument for every single AA in this line. Probably the weakest are Devout Incapacitation and Allied Prayers. Devout Incapacitation adds an almost inconsequential amount to your debuff and Allied Prayers will almost never go off and counts for very little actual healing. The ones you didn't choose, Overwhealming Arms and Blessed Yaulp yield big increases to your DPS. As an Inquisitor DPS is still part of your mission statement. Also Sacrifice is worth having if you really want to heal, it's dangerous but it's more effective than our other emergencies.Inquisitor: Despotic Healing, Atonement of Sins and Fanatical Devotion are the good choices here. If you're specced into Divine Recovery on the INT line then Vile Recovery is worth having I suppose. If you can find the free points. And both the stances obviously.<cite>Azei wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gear:Righteous Mithril Epaulets, Gauntlets, and Helm (T2 shard armor)Pious Steel Breastplate and Greaves (T1 shard armor)<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear1.jpg" /><img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear2.jpg" />And two of these:<img src="http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af97/michmane/Gear3.jpg" />Also, all heal spells are at least Expert, if not Master. Almost all spells are Expert.Well, that's my char. I don't want to embarass myself on raids. Am I doing something glaringly wrong? Is there some critical piece of gear that I am missing? Other than "as high as possible" what should I be aiming to get my heal amt and crit heal up to?Thanks in advance for any and all help! And thanks in advance for answering in a contructive way!--Azei.</blockquote>Gear wise I'd recommend you try to find some benevolent alacrity. There's a lot of it kicking about and I reducing your group heal to a 1.5 second cast time makes a big big difference to your ability to keep a group up through heavy aoes.Over all your gear isn't too bad. I think you have focused too much on Wisdom (which is really quite meh for Inquisitors) and you should now focus on Heal crit and Benevolent Alacrity. If you really want to be an Inquisitor though then you want to find a big hammer and a secondary set of T1 hybrid armour. I recommend you read some of the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=415347" target="_blank">Inquisitor guides</a> on this forum for a more indepth understanding of the whys and wherefores of AA and gear choices.

Orthureon

08-02-2009, 04:19 PM

Honestly first priority should be getting more AAs, you can run grey shard instances and make AA really fast. Without even trying at all I have 193 AA on my Inquis, this was from mainly doing grey shard runs.Your int line setup is very bad. I always tell ANYONE that enhancing a base stat instead of a another stat is always silly when it comes to AA. Meaning NEVER put 8 points into Str, Sta, Agi, Wis, Int. Enhancing spell crit, spell casting speed etc is FAR more desirable.You have a few decent pieces of gear on your inquis. To increase your casting speed by a good margin I highly recommend getting the cloth chest piece that drops off of Terror in Shard of Fear (you can 2-3 man this zone). With that alone you get 10% increase to casting speed, plus myth 15%, casting speed from intellgience line, and endline healing stance ANOTHER 15%. Needless to say I cast at lightning speeds.Other than that if you don't already have your mythical get is ASAP, honestly it is very easy to get. That will give you a nice heal mod increase, then adorn your weapon with either heal mod or heal crit.

VintageRed

08-02-2009, 06:24 PM

The inquisitor is my favorite class, and I've been playing one since launch. We can heal and we can dps, but not exactly at the same time.The zone-wide dps for me comes mainly from the trash. For that, you will need to pre-cast your reactive heals, take out your trusty two-hander (such as the hammer from Deep Forge if you don't have access to raid loot yet). You need to be in mele range the moment the mob is positioned, and timing your CAs in a way that will not override your auto-attack. ACT (advanced combat tracker) is absolutely invaluable for this. You should have at least 35%-40% (more=better) dps coming from your auto-attack. If you are in a guild that has training dummies, practice there. As you get more AA, you'll have the heal/dps stance from the final shadow line which will help. Also, you should have the mele version of Litany of Combat running. Toggling Fanatical Devotion is also very nice, provided you invest the AA so that it no longer stuns you. If you have to cast a single benefitial spell, your dps will dip by a lot.If you are running an instance with another healer, you may have the luxury of doing mainly dps and spot healing. If you do this frequently, you may want to invest some shards into the generic version of shard plate armor, with dps modifiers and some dps adornments. Unfortunately, at least for me, if I do an instance run, people expect me (or any other healer) to solo heal. This means healing gear and shield ally. There is a great deal of information on templar forums, with items and adornments that help. With my current gear and maxed AA, shield ally prevents about 12%-15% damage on the tank, which makes things easier for everyone. I can come out of such an instance with about 1k dps zonewide, or as low as 0, depending on instance and group make up and group's gear.Raiding is another thing still. Pre-TSO, even through most of VP, as an inquisitor in the scout group, I was able to do a bit of decent dps, spot heal, debuff, run fanatical devotion as much as possible, and keep my group up mainly through reactives. Raiding TSO is quite different. I sometimes go into the OT group if a templar is not available (shield ally and heal gear, temp heal crit adornments and potions, all out). I have Allied Prayers maxed out, because I have the points and didn't have anything else to put them in on my heal spec. This can give very mixed results. If I watch my windows very carefully (Profit UI mod, highly recommended), I can time my reactive recasts. Allied Prayers can be as low as 1% of my output and as high as 8%, with about 6% on average. In my opinion, this is worth the AA cost, but your mileage may vary.My scout group is full of choker and Signet of Betrayal wearers. They do insane dps, but keep me very busy healing. Reactives alone will not keep them up because choker damage will not proc reactive heals. If I am in this group, I often come in second on heal parse, after the MT shaman. If I am in the OT group, I usually come about fourth of fifth, which is normal. The scout group also likes Fanatical Fanaticism (sp?) from the inquisitor shadow AA line. It can, in an optimal raid and gear setup, produce up to 1k extra dps per scout in your group. Or it can be as low as 2% of their output. Again, gear, class, masters, and raid make-up change a lot of things. Try it and see if it works for you.Another big thing is our mythical cure clicky. TSO, raiding and otherwise, is basically an ever-cure. The clicky takes one of each detrimental DOT type off everyone in the group (except curse), and it does so with faster cast and reuse time than any of the regular healer group cures. It is absolutely invaluable to get as much casting time, reuse time reducing gear as you can.The last thing I want to say is this: please remember that you are not locked in your AA and gear. You can try different things, respec, swap out gear, etc. As I mentioned before, the training dummy is great to get your casting/CA order, and timing right. There are lot of great guides and information available, but ultimately you need to tailor it to your needs.Have fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Calain80

08-03-2009, 10:03 AM

1st there are many wasted AA points with your AA setup.The WIS line is crap for Templars and is even worse for us. So that are 16 points to free up.Altogether stat bonuses from AA are not worth much. So you can take 4 points out of INT. Also the INT DD spell is not so good. best keep it at 4 points.If you want to keep the INT line I would go 4-4-6-8-2 there. So you would still gain 5 additional free points.STA looks about right. Just move one point of the two points of Divine Aura to melee crit as we have two shadow AA that practically force you to take 100% melee crit and also remember, that you will need ~116% melee crit to crit 100% vs a lvl 88 mob. So you gain one additional free point.Now you have 22 points left.You can use them to go down the AGI line, if you often have a tank in your group or STA for all other occurrences. (maybe use a mirror)A good AGI build would be 4-4-6-8-2. The AE-Prevent for yourself or even someone else can often be handy and if you use the AGI line there is no reason to skip it.A good STA build with you gear in mind would be 4-4-6-8-2. For sure you still need the additional HP.The Inq tree looks OK. Just move the 5 points from the reactive damage shield to the missing CA. The damage reactive almost never triggers and is a waste of time to cast on a PvE server.On the Priest line best move the 5 points from the mitigation AE to Litany of Combat. You will only run this buff if you are solo healing a DPS group while fighting a named with a physical AE. So it is not worth the AA. Litany on the other side is almost always a good thing to have. The melee version to DPS or even the spell version on fights with dispelling mobs to have a shorter reuse on our debuffs.The cleric line could also take some rearranging. While out mitigation debuff is really nice it is already boosted though our Inq tree and the bonus here is negligible. Same goes for Allied Prayers. Good while reading bad in play. If it would go off while refreshing a reactive it would be useful but as that is not the case, it is better to spend you points elsewhere. To where to spend these free points: Blessed Yaulp and Overwhelming Arms are a great choice. While this only gives DPS for the Inquisitor. We are also meant to do some DPS while fighting trash so it does not take to long.These are some changes that should help a lot and you can do in no time.For Gear look out for some ward procs and mana procs. We get our mana trough procs not through WIS. Beside this try to get some TSO T4 set pieces as they are some of the best healing equip we can get. And if you can get you hands on some nice melee dps gear try to add it to your collection and swap it in while fighting trash for some additional DPS. The offensive T3 set is a good source for that.I hope this helps.

Azei

08-23-2009, 01:23 PM

A bit late, maybe, but I wanted to thank everyone for all of the kind advice. I have made some changes to my achievement trees and have recently (finally!) hit 170 AA--so I will be adding new AA's to the Inquisitor line of the TSO tree--yay!I appreciate the constructive criticism! Hopefully I'll be kicking a-- and taking names in no time!

Sprin

08-31-2009, 02:14 PM

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Allied Prayers will almost never go off and counts for very little actual healing. </blockquote>Im new to the cleric world.. does Allied Prayers only proc when the spell actually times out? or does it proc when the last of the group reactives is used up?

VanHellsi

08-31-2009, 09:32 PM

Maybe a little late on this but will post my AA specs anyways<img src="http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/IngvarGunnarsson/Cleric.jpg" /><img src="http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/IngvarGunnarsson/Inquisitor.jpg" /><img src="http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/IngvarGunnarsson/Shadows.jpg" /><img src="http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/IngvarGunnarsson/Persona.jpg" />

Carthr

09-01-2009, 12:01 PM

Van, there's so much contradiction in your AA spec, it's not even funny... You put points into melee abilities(8pts in MC), yet don't put points in some of the most influential spots in your shadows line.. You go down the AGI line, but don't finish it up, and get two amazing abilities(shield ally, and Holy shield).. You start down STR, but don't get Steadfast(there's still fights where it's amazing aka Byzola)... With one of THE best rez's in the game, 5 points to cast it even faster is worth it, instead of quickening up our deathsave(which can't be used cross grp)..Try this for your shadow abilities:<img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/LightningStruck/shadowstree.jpg" width="666" height="621" />We'll start with priest line.. Litany of Combat is unreal for upping your individual DPS. In the Cleric line: 20% flurry!? YES!!! Allied prayer is a waste most of the time, since it most use all 9(or 10 with Coercive Healing) to proc the heal, which unless your OT inquis, won't happen very often. In the Inquis tree, Fanactical Devotion is awesome, comparable to Chimes in the DPS department.

VanHellsi

09-01-2009, 09:48 PM

There is no contradiction in my pure HEAL spec. Yes I put AA into the melee line, what am I supposed to do put it in enhance procs/verdict (complete waste of aa btw)? My tank doesnt need Shield Ally, the Star of Malice w/ the Rolling Pin is better than shields anyway. Steadfast is worthless for everything except Byzola and Trak (thats why its on my solo/dps spec on my mirror for those cases). I dont ever rez in a raid setting, thats what dirges are for. Also about allied prayers, I am the OT cleric or I solo heal groups on fights like Tythus so it procs all the time. If you want I can so you the other dps spec but how many times do you get to DPS in TSO? From my experiance not very much.(Edited for spelling)

Calain80

09-02-2009, 10:51 AM

But why did you put 8 points into double attack? The whole AGI line makes absolutely no sense if you look how you build your AA in all other trees.

VanHellsi

09-02-2009, 09:07 PM

And where would I put the AA if not in AGI? Wisdom - only a stupid person would do that. Strength - once again is useless except for two fights (Trak and Byzola) which my guild doesnt do anyways or soloing (which is on my mirror). So I choose to take DA from agility and the interrupt just for another CA for when I actually get to dps and throw on my dps gear and still get 100% DA. And you keep saying based on my other trees, which by what I can tell you mean the BC line in the Inquisitor tree. Once again only a dumb inquisitor would not take that tree no matter how they spec out their inquisitor. Am I supposed to drop that line because I didn't go strength all the way down and use the totally worthless enhance verdict line instead? I think not.If you think I am wrong so be it, never had any complaints about my healing ability with this line. So I must know a little bit about my class.

Calain80

09-03-2009, 04:20 AM

1st your setup looks like you tried to build a full "group support" setup, but then you miss some really nice support tools for some crappy DPS abilities while missing all goos DPS abilities. Here are some remarks:<ul><li>There are other fights where STR is quite useful. Including Zarrakon and Anashti Sul.</li><li>And even 100% melee crit and 8 points in spell crit would be more useful then your current setup then AGI. Esp. 100% melee crit as that helps a lot to proc Fanatical Devotion which will help your DDs. As you have "a full support" setup you, why do you not support them there?</li><li>And if you take AGI at least take the AE-prevent. If not for yourself allow a melee class to stay in AE-range every second AE.</li><li>Also 5 points in Litany of Combat will give you much more DPS then the 16 points you spent in the AGI tree.</li><li>If you would take 100% melee crit even 5 points in Overwhelming Arms will be better then 16 points in the AGI tree.</li><li>The reuse on Divine Recovery is almost useless. Just bother your Troub friend to give you Jester's. </li><li>Inquisition is also a rather bothersome spell. To spend AA to enhance it is quite fruitless.</li><li>You also put 19 points in the left side in the Inquisitor tree. If you go that way use 21 points and take the 5m additional range. That is actually a huge benefit. Take 2 points out of Strike of Corruption. That is a weak CA and you will still have it for procs.</li><li>Then put the 5 points from the STA buff into faster rezzes. That little bit more STA wil most like give your group less then 50HP per member. Not really worth it. Faster rezzes can be quite handy if things get messy, 'cause in such situations the Inquisitor as DPS group healer should be the 1st healer to help out getting people up as MT and OT healer have more important things to do.</li></ul>You are free to build an ineffective AA build for yourself but don't advertise unexperienced to try out your spec. They won't heal any better then with one of the solid builds but they will only do 1/2 the DPS.

Kleitos

09-03-2009, 04:37 AM

I'll have to agree with Calain80, it looks odd VanHellsing. Heal spec you say, but you dump 8 points into melee crit, don't take Overwhelming Arms or Fanatical Devotion while you sit at 89% heal crit with the option to put 3 more points for more heal crit. I'm not a fan of the INT line in the Cleric tree, it's a very expensive way to get a few % casting speed that's not really needed in my opinion.If it works for you VanHellsing, use it, but it's not something I'd recommend for a Inq trying to get settled and learn.

VanHellsi

09-03-2009, 05:07 AM

I was gonna post yet again about my ineffective AA build, but I just dont give a crap anymore.But it's so ineffective that I can single heal any zone I want too. Including the special fights that I heal a group by myself.Just because I don't use the eq2flames cookie cutter AA setup I must suck big time.But guess what we get stuff dead and that is all that matters in this game.Keep force feeding the cookie cutter AA build and thinking your more uber.

Kleitos

09-03-2009, 05:53 AM

I guess most of us are just confused about your spec VanHellsing since you say it's a heal spec but looks like a caster/melee/mishmash to most of us. Again, most of us are just asking why you put points in some specific place instead of some other place that seems to us to make more sence.If I'd want to make a heal spec, first thing I'd go for is heal crit, max it up. If there are any casting/recovery speed AAs I'd take them (you did), next up would be buffs so I wouldn't need to heal as hard. After that, any utility available, like Reach of Faith, Battle Cleric and other things that makes surviving easier. Steadfast prevents interupts which are plenty in TSO. Holy Shield is nicer then it looks, 30 sec AoE immune and a fairly fast recast.I held on long to the INT line for the casting speed but finally dropped it and it was odd at first but after 1-2 weeks I never looked back, it is really not worth it for what it costs in my opinion. The ~10% you get can easily be replaced with 2 pieces of "easy" to get gear. Divine Recovery looks nicer then it is in my opinion, when it's running, yes it's nice but the recast is way to long.

Calain80

09-03-2009, 11:00 AM

<cite>VanHellsing wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was gonna post yet again about my ineffective AA build, but I just dont give a crap anymore.But it's so ineffective that I can single heal any zone I want too. Including the special fights that I heal a group by myself.Just because I don't use the eq2flames cookie cutter AA setup I must suck big time.But guess what we get stuff dead and that is all that matters in this game.Keep force feeding the cookie cutter AA build and thinking your more uber.</blockquote>You asked what I thought was weird and I gave you a constructive answer including 9 reasons. And all you can do is flame me? How about some constructive feedback why your choice is better then any of the adjustments I mentioned?I have also solo healed every Heroic zone and most raid encounters. This is actually not a AA but more a gear and esp. gear of the whole group. I have solo healed a pickup through The Crucible with >3k hps fighting the end boss and I have solo healed Varsoon only needing 1,5k hps. Both doesn't make my AA spec better or worse then yours.The art of a good AA spec is to use synergies and to try to cover weaknesses. This are both points where your build lacks. And if you look at my guide up here you will see that I don't mention 1 cookie cuter spec but that there are several useful specs.Sometime it is better to read what you have written before pressing Submit.

Carthr

09-03-2009, 11:33 AM

A couple contradictions in what your saying Van... You state that you use the Star of Malice, and in the next sentence ask the rhetorical question of when do we get to DPS in TSO... I sincerely hope your atleast making an attempt to hit the mob, otherwise I doubt Star of Malice is procing to often.. Then it also begs the question, that if you are making a valid attempt to proc Star of Malice, why not put the points into Fanatical Devotion, so that'll proc at the same time?Last Anashti fight, with me being OT cleric, shield ally was an additional 10% avoidance to the adds tank.. On power intensive fight's, that's pretty awesome.. If he doesn't get hit, I don't have to heal.. If I don't have to heal, I don't use power..And here's my persona window:<img src="http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/LightningStruck/persona.jpg" />

yibiumien

09-23-2009, 11:07 AM

Play with your AAs, there is no single best way to do it, because unlike some classes the Inq can be very versitile. Each of us play a little differently, and have different ideas about what makes a good set up.Get a mirror, that way you can experiment and still return to your favorite setup.