Which came first, the tinkerer or the tinkered?

[Aneova]

<p>(original topic brought up by Controlor of Befallen)</p><p>So a discussion was started up about How Tinkering came about, and why gnomes and goblins are the only ones to seem to really want to mess with machines. What Deity claims Gnomes as their creation was another thing we puzzled over. Any info folks would like to add and share would be appreciated.</p><p>edited for spelling</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Here are some snippets on Gnomes from <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/The_History_of_Gnomes_(House_Item)" target="_blank">The History of Gnomes</a>:</span></p><p><em>"...As we like to joke with our stouter dwarf cousins, Brell finally got things right when he made us!...</em></p><p><em>...Our ancestral home is Ak'Anon, as mentioned, and it was devoted to tinkering and building, and discussions of building and tinkering. There is nothing a gnome enjoys more than building something if it's not thinking about it or telling someone else how it works..."</em></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">And here's a snippet on Goblins:</span></p><p><em>"...This book is titled "<a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/History_of_the_Runnyeye_Goblins,_Vol._I" target="_blank">History of the Runnyeye Goblins, Vol. I</a>". It chronicles the history of the goblins from their creation to the exodus from their homelands. </em></p><p><em>1 GE - The creations of Rallos and The-Brell-That-Is-Not, the goblins were brought into the world. Gathering together as the One Clan, the goblins would create a society that would flourish within their cavernous world. </em></p><p><em>200 GE - The form of an enormous goblin would appear before the Enlightened Council and present itself as the Avatar of War. The Avatar would demand of the goblins an oath that would bind every following generation. In return for the oath, the goblins would be allowed continued existence..."</em></p>

[Controlor]

<p>Kind of figured they came from brell as well as most beings that live under ground were created by brell (Dark elves being one of the exceptions).</p><p>However that still doesnt explain WHY they tinker. What drove them to beuild mechamagical instruments instead of just magical ones. If you look at it from a distance tinkering is just off the wall in ways of the world. Most buildings are made out of stone and wood. Most items are steel forged into armor or weapons. Magic is all around. And you have a lot of arcane instruments that have no mechanical parts in them that can cause destruction (such as the spires or the "ultimate device" of the erudties). Mechanical devices are more "modern" instruments. Just want to know how or why they came up with the idea to make things that move on their own (with a little winding).</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>As I recall, Gnomes are one of Brell's creations.</p><p>One of the things that makes gnomes "tick," as it were, is their natural curiosity and ingenuity. While this is not uncommon in most races, gnomes are also very small and frail, unlike their Dwarven cousins, and lack the physical strength to do things such as digging and mining. So to overcome these limitations they study all things mechanical and put this knowledge to practical use. Hence their propensity to devise all sorts of strange clockwork contraptions.</p><p>Gnomes in general tend to be zealously curious, to the point where if something catches their attention they will ignore just about everything around them to focus on that. Or if they have a goal, they will let nothing get in their way of accomplishing that goal, no matter how odd ball that goal is.</p><p>There was some EQ1 lore that explained the origins of Ak'anon, but I don't know how accurate it really is. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://lore.dramatis-personae.com/everquest/eqcity/akanon.php" target="_blank">http://lore.dramatis-personae.com/e...city/akanon.php</a></p><p>One of the EQ1 Wikis has this to say about Gnomes, and it seems to fit with how I remember Gnome lore from my EQ1 days.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">Gnomes were the second race created by Brell Serilis and are the smaller cousins of the Dwarves, though unlike Dwarves, Gnomes are not very strong or particularly tough for their size. While Dwarves were blessed with strength and sturdiness, Gnomes were given a healthy share of intelligence and dexterity. Gnomes are famous throughout Norrath for the gadgets and devices they create; they are the only race with any skill at Tinkering and the only ones capable of producing anything useful from their efforts. Many of the gadgets Gnomes tinker are highly sought after by adventurers and they are known to create devices to help with staying underwater for lengthy periods, increasing the skill of crafters with special tools and even finding a lost corpse.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">The Gnomes of Norrath live in Ak'Anon, a little clockwork city full of mechanical treasures. Many of their accomplishments can be seen roaming around or deactivated and on display. In addition to the many tool and work shops inside their city, the Gnomes also have a large arcane library. It is visited by many scholars and apprentices and rivals even the great library of Erudin. Gnomes often take up the magical professions, despite their leanings towards machinery and science and because of their high dexterity and intelligence make very powerful examples.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">Similar in alignment to the Dwarves, Gnomes are considered a 'good' people, though some have become Necromancers and more recently, Shadow Knights; though even those who study necromancy tend to do so in a similar manner to the Erudites of Paineel and have little interest in the darker side of their profession. The religion they follow tends to be their father and creator Brell Serilis but many will follow religions more in keeping with their studies. Religion is rarely a matter of any discussion or significance in their society, Gnomes tend to just rush around only concerning themselves with their own affairs. They don't really hate any race but dislike any aggression or interference, Gnomes are usually considered to be one of the more neutral aligned of the good races, though they are friendly with all but Dark Elves, the Iksar, Ogres and Trolls.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"> </p><p>Now as for the goblins, who knows? They're borderline intelligent anyway, and the more intelligent ones are just as curious as gnomes.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The Goblins were created by Bolgin Serilis, Brell's dark horse brother who holds no official title as a diety. We really don't know why the goblins, the Kunarkian goblins in particular, take an interest in tinkering. I guess both races realized new ways to advance their mining operations.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Also the Ratonga seem to have an interest in the profession, at least they had an Interest in the Skyships. And Humans, well Humans are always up for new things it's in their nature.</span></p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Also the Ratonga seem to have an interest in the profession, at least they had an Interest in the Skyships. And Humans, well Humans are always up for new things it's in their nature.</span></p></blockquote><p>I don't know of any Human Tinkerers, at least in lore</p><p>Ratongas are definitely mechanically inclined, but I think it has more to do with them just liking shiny things in my opinion. They make pretty good mechanics, but they don't seem all that inventive compared to gnomes.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>You know, I can't really think of the Goblins being all that interested in Tinkering back in EQlive.</p><p>I think that they made the Kunark goblins interested in it just to add some flavor to the game, because there weren't any technological doohickies around Nurga or Droga in EQlive.</p><p>Humans were never interested in tinkering either.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I prefaced it by saying NEW things. ;p</span></p>

[Maergoth]

<p>The goblins were originally a race of super-fighters created by Rallos Zek called the Ankhexfen. These were the best of the best, the strongest and smartest of Rallos' creations. They pioneered a lot of the planar raiding that occurred and as a result, were the harshest punished when the verdict was laid down.</p><p>Their strength and intelligence was stripped from them and they became scrawny little buggers who fell so out of place with their god, they either flocked to another or made one up.</p>

[Aneova]

<p>Ok it's kinda straying away from the original topic, Which is really: Where did Mechanamagic aka Tinkering come from, Who really came up with the ability to build machines? I myself would like a bit more then "they just always have"</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The goblins were originally a race of super-fighters created by Rallos Zek called the Ankhexfen. These were the best of the best, the strongest and smartest of Rallos' creations. They pioneered a lot of the planar raiding that occurred and as a result, were the harshest punished when the verdict was laid down.</p><p>Their strength and intelligence was stripped from them and they became scrawny little buggers who fell so out of place with their god, they either flocked to another or made one up.</p></blockquote><p>The story of the First Rallosian War states that ogres were the best of the best, both physically and mentally. Looks like we have two conflicting stories for the same god's own races.</p><p>Oh, and it's never really been stated where Tinkering got it's origins from. It's always just been with the gnomes.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>Well it is important to say that Tinkering wasn't something bestowed upon them by a diety.. it was of gnomish origin. I suppose since gnomes were physically weaker than the dwarves and smarter, they just relied on technology much more. Clockwork most likely developed in EQ the same way technology did here. They just have magic reinforcing their efforts <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Also, a previous poster mentioned the avatar of war being an Ankhexfen, which would point out some superiority over other races. I do remember reading somewhere that they were the masterminds of the invasion, the ogres just had the quills and parchment and wrote around them. You'll note very little mention of the Shissar in any ogre texts regarding the planar invasion as well.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You'll note very little mention of the Shissar in any ogre texts regarding the planar invasion as well.</p></blockquote><p>Why would, or should there be? The Shissar barely had anything to do with the ogres in any possible way.</p><p>Besides. The ogres *BARELY* kept any actual records of their races existance once the curse hit them, regardless of the subject.</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>I think the Avatar of War mentioned previously appeared as a goblin (and it says goblin, not <span >Ankhexfen) because it was appearing TO goblins.  In the <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=4" target="_blank">Tome of Destiny - Awakenings</a>, it is an ogre:</span></p><p>"Urduuk turned and gasped, as did the crowd. Out of nowhere a massive figure stood, twice as tall as any ogre, with a thick, imposing frame. It wore dark metallic armor that seemed to faintly glow with power, and a horned helm that hung just above its burning eyes. It was like an ogre but more than an ogre, a creature of power and terror and death."</p><p>Meanwhile, the Avatar of War that shows up in front of Deathfist Citadel appears to be a gargantuan orc.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Meanwhile, the Avatar of War that shows up in front of Deathfist Citadel appears to be a gargantuan orc.</p></blockquote><p>Ogre.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well it is important to say that Tinkering wasn't something bestowed upon them by a diety.. it was of gnomish origin.</p></blockquote><p>How do you explain the Plane of Innovation then?</p><p>Actually I kinda forget what the whole backstory <em>is </em>for Plane of Innovation.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well it is important to say that Tinkering wasn't something bestowed upon them by a diety.. it was of gnomish origin.</p></blockquote><p>How do you explain the Plane of Innovation then?</p><p>Actually I kinda forget what the whole backstory <em>is </em>for Plane of Innovation.</p></blockquote><p>Wasn't this a topic somewhere else?</p><p>As I recall it was given to Meldrath's 'brother' (who was the good one). But that's not a major plane, that's like a sub-plane or demi-plane, the rule of it is NOT a god. And it came long after gnomes started tinkering.</p>