Miragul's Planar Shard - Feedback

[Xalmat]

<p>I find it interesting that the devices you can buy off the starting NPC are 30 plat apiece. My impression at Fan Faire was that the normal/hard mode encounters you would be able to reset their difficulty every time you tried them. But at 30 plat apiece on the devices to set the mob difficulty, that will get extremely expensive, very quickly.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p>That's utterly insane.</p>

[Mustang8259]

<p>Sorry I don't play on test, could you explain that a little better?  Are you saying just to ENTER the dungeon is now gonna cost 30p per time you try?  Or do you pay 30p for a permanent item that lets you choose the difficulty from then on?  Cause granted 30p for an item imho is rediculous considering it's the lower end raiding guilds that need it, but to have to buy it every single time you go to raid is <<insert explative here>> insane...  I was under the impression you'd be able to just take your guild to the entrance, choose the instance' difficulty and be on your merry way raiding, now we have to pay to raid?  Give me a <<insert explative here>> break Sony... I sincerely hope this is not gonna be the case =(</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Pay</span> (and <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">30p</span></strong>) to enter a dungeon!!?!!  OMG this is just the worst idea ever, if this is true.</span></p>

[Mustang8259]

<p>Well by dungeon I meant raid instance, so don't get the 2 confused, but still I hope I've got the details screwed up somehow, or this is just the dumbest thing i've heard of yet that they're trying to ram down our throats...</p>

[Terrius]

<p>wow the merchant has 4 items all for 30p 1c, I'm guessing you need all 4? if you want to set all the nameds to easy? they all look like 1 use charms aswell.. How could anyone think that was a good idea?? epic fail tbh</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wow the merchant has 4 items all for 30p 1c, I'm guessing you need all 4? if you want to set all the nameds to easy? they all look like 1 use charms aswell.. How could anyone think that was a good idea?? epic fail tbh</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The instance is designed to be completed without the plat items being required - those purchase shortcuts are <em>optional</em> shortcuts.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Please /feedback what makes it "epic fail" in your opinion.  Is it the high plat cost, or just the idea of paying for an easier session?  </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Bear in mind, there is a very strong precedent from game start for impatient people willingly paying plat in-game to other players and guilds for looting rights and access to cleared instances for updates - this appears to be a natural progression of accepted existing in-game practises... hardcore guilds might receive uber-loots for completing the raid zone without shortcuts, and casual raids looking for easier rides might need to pay up to 120p to receive uber loots.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Is the plat cost too high per ability blocked?  What is a more acceptable cost that you can suggest for the encounter?  Did they work as expected, or what tweaks can be suggested to make it better?</span></p>

[Xalmat]

<p>It's the high plat cost that has me concerned; even for a hard core raid guild, 30 plat a pop is a <em>lot</em> of money. But that's assuming it's 30 plat per pull; if it's just 30 plat for as many attempts as you want, that's a different story.</p>

[dreiden]

<p>I thought when they originally posted the idea of varying the difficulty of nameds the plan was to make it a roleplaying reason. AKA you bar a door to the nameds room and his adds cannot enter, but maybe that also means his loot table is nerfed.If that was the method its would be one that had story value, and make more sense then simply putting a fee on making a mob easy. Why not make a merchant that says give me 500p and we'll just make the zone soloable with the same loot tables.</p><p>I think the mobs with varying difficultys should just have nerfed loot tables on easy mode.  one way to do that is make it so he always drops loot as legendary but in hard mode he also drops a number of special shard like items that when combined later with the legendary loot at a merchant gives a greater fabled version of the item for instance.</p><p>Or if that is too much just have 2 loot tables, depending on difficulty.</p><p>Chanrging 30p just to [Removed for Content] a mob so a raid can get rewards without effort is bad design.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>dreiden wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I thought when they originally posted the idea of varying the difficulty of nameds the plan was to make it a roleplaying reason. AKA you bar a door to the nameds room and his adds cannot enter, but maybe that also means his loot table is nerfed.</p></blockquote><p>It's more mechanics than roleplay, but they can invent a roleplay reason for anything. The different difficulties are supposed to have different loot tables.</p>

[Terrius]

tbh I dont care about the fact they added an easy mode. 30 plat is rediculous in order to pull a mob. depending on how hard this zone is, if most guilds have to spend 120 plat just to kill anything in it that will be lame. I'm willing to wait and see. Honestly though, all the mobs are 87? that alone makes it seem like the zone will be hard. At fanfaire they said depending on how you pull a mob it's difficulty and loot would scale accordingly. That was a good idea, [Removed for Content] happened to it? And if the loot scales when you set the mobs to easy, why force guilds to pay 30plat a mob for lesser gear?? if it doesnt scale, then the zone is stupid, and horribly designed. This is just my preliminary opinion since I doubt I will actually raid the zone anytime soon. Hopefully It wont be as bad as I think it will /shrug

[Josgar]

<p>Did they patch this to test today?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Yesterday actually, kind of quietly.</p><p><a href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/pa...dates_test.html</a></p>

[Gaige]

<p>30pp for the opportunity to kill a mob you normally wouldn't be able to kill and get loot you normally wouldn't get sounds fine to me.  As does 30pp to make the mob super hard so you can get amazing loot.</p>

[krrr]

<p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> At fanfaire they said depending on how you pull a mob it's difficulty and loot would scale accordingly. That was a good idea, [Removed for Content] happened to it? And if the loot scales when you set the mobs to easy, why force guilds to pay 30plat a mob for lesser gear?? if it doesnt scale, then the zone is stupid, and horribly designed. </blockquote><p>1: Using something and not using something sounds like pulling same mob in 2 different ways</p><p>2: It can be a placeholder with random price tag attached</p><p>3: It is also entierly possible that mob drops 30pp <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and last one: 30 pp is high price? for a raid? seriously?</p>

[Terrius]

<p><cite>Darlock@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>At fanfaire they said depending on how you pull a mob it's difficulty and loot would scale accordingly. That was a good idea, [Removed for Content] happened to it? And if the loot scales when you set the mobs to easy, why force guilds to pay 30plat a mob for lesser gear?? if it doesnt scale, then the zone is stupid, and horribly designed. </blockquote><p>1: Using something and not using something sounds like pulling same mob in 2 different ways<span style="color: #ff0000;">Yeah guess i just figured you shouldnt have to pay to do content? and that they could have been creative instead of lazy?</span></p><p>2: It can be a placeholder with random price tag attached<span style="color: #ff0000;">This is true</span></p><p>3: It is also entierly possible that mob drops 30pp <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /><span style="color: #ff0000;"><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> pls dont give them ideas like that</span></p><p>and last one: 30 pp is high price? for a raid? seriously?<span style="color: #ff0000;">No, that isnt, Unless you have to buy one for every single pull you take on the mob. Hoping that it wont be that stupid though.</span></p></blockquote><p>"Gage: 30pp for the opportunity to kill a mob you normally wouldn't be able to kill and get loot you normally wouldn't get sounds fine to me.  As does 30pp to make the mob super hard so you can get amazing loot."<span style="color: #ff0000;">Yeah sounds good, so where is said item to make the mob super hard? cause the only things you can buy [Removed for Content] the mobs they're used on, no super hard buff item for amazing loot.</span></p>

[xpraetorianx]

<p>Any guild that raids a few times a week, even moderately successfully has plenty of cash to go around.</p><p>I dont get the whole deal with "short cuts" its stupid... even the hardest of the hardcore will more than likely use them...  why work harder when you dont have to?  Redundant IMO... its like asking someone "Do you want to run 2 miles to the store or get in a car?"  Makes no sense.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>xpraetorianx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any guild that raids a few times a week, even moderately successfully has plenty of cash to go around.</p><p>I dont get the whole deal with "short cuts" its stupid... even the hardest of the hardcore will more than likely use them...  why work harder when you dont have to?  Redundant IMO... its like asking someone "Do you want to run 2 miles to the store or get in a car?"  Makes no sense.</p></blockquote><p>pretty sure these are not "short cuts"  but instead let you choose how hard the mob will be and the harder the mob the better the reward.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>First off the LU won't be going live until September, maybe they just patched in the Mechanic with a "short-cut" item right now so that they can focus on testing the scaling of the encounter without having to deal FIRST with broken scripts that bar access to certain versions of the enounters. That said if it is just a Testing tool...why 30p?</p><p>Second, they did say there would be specific LORE reasons for you getting an easier fight, not that you would have to "do something" in the zone, a Lore reason to me is like someone else said, having to Bar Doors to keep the Named from calling adds. They also said that you would be in some cases facing completly differant mobs in certain fights, if you did on thing instead of another.</p><p>As for the Hardcore using the shortcuts, first off The Hardcore Loot table can only be accessed from killing the Hardcore Version of the mob(kill it on easy and you get the easy loot table). So the Hardcore will still fight the Mob on Hard as long as the Loot on that mob is worth it.</p>

[Sharakari]

<p>Just an idea on implementation....</p><p>The raid zone should be automatically set to "hard" mode.</p><p>You only buy one of the 30p items so you can select an "easier" mode.</p><p>The 30p item would set the mode for ALL the zone bosses.</p><p>The loot tables would be different for each mode with the best stuff going to those who do the hard mode.</p><p>I'm not a hardcore raider but I'll admit that there is a lot more solo/easy raid content than there is for the hardcore guilds.  So why set the mode on the raid zone to easy.... set it to hard as default.  Let the hardcore guilds bang away on the mobs and get the rewards they should get for doing it on hard mode.  The rest of the guilds, like mine, will have to pay the 30p to try the zone easier and hope the rewards are worth it..... if the 30p is for the whole zone that is. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Just my 2 cents.</p>

[dreiden]

<p>I say do away with any price at all. I was under initial impression that the differance in difficulty would be a mob by mob basis based on how you pull. Here are examples of ways they could change fights up including my earlier one.</p><p>1: Bar a door in the nameds room, he can no longer call mobs, fight is now set to easy, option to remove bar also exist if guild changes its mind wants to go hard.</p><p>2: 2 named stand togather and challange you, one doesnt attack unless you pull it. It at 50% life on the aggro named, the 2nd unpulled named will run away unless pulled. You will get 1 chest instead of 2. the 2nd named being the one with the better loot table.</p><p>3: A named is chained to the ground in an arena, do a small quest in zone to get a key to release him, fight is harder after he is released.</p><p>4: A dragon that gets slower and fights worse after a full stomach, Sacrifice a few players to him before the fight to reduce his difficulty.</p><p>5: A named that spawns in a magic circle with an aoe active inside the circle, if the named ever leaves the circle its loot table changes to easy. For easiest fight pull out of circle as soon as fight starts.</p><p>6: A named is hooked up to 5 tubes, every 20% of the fight liquid goes through said tubes each tube adds a different effect to the fight, the order they happen is random, for easy mode players will get an item off of mobs in zone that allows them to destroy 2 of the tubes.</p><p>In my opinion these all sound better then, charge 30p for an item that is then cast on the mob to make it easy. if you want a money sink in the game you should have put it on the research assisstant.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>OMG quit crying about 30pp.  Its like 1pp 40gp per member of the raid.  Most named drop more than 30pp.  First you cry because you can't clear zones now you cry because SOE is actually trying to put a plat sink into the game which affects some of its richest players (raiders).</p><p>I swear to God the constant crying about everything gets so old.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>I find your constant crying and complaining old too gage.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I find your constant crying and complaining old too gage.</p></blockquote><p>Opinions vary.</p><p>I just get tired of seeing all these players never being satisfied no matter what SOE does.  "This intrazone progression is dumb, we can't even clear one zone" - Okay we'll let you select mob difficulty so even if you can't kill all of the named, you can kill all of the encounters, see the entire zone, clear it and still get some loot.  "Yay, you guys are awesome"  -- They fidn out its 30pp per encounter -- "OMG screw that, are you serious?  We have to pay for the ability to change the difficulty of an encounter, no way!"</p><p>Players whine until they get what they want, and then when they get it, they whine because something else isn't exactly how they envisioned it.</p><p>This game, especially at endgame when dealing with raid guilds, needs a plat sink desperately.  This is an opportunity for one that is totally worth it if you read these forums and see what raid guilds complain about.</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">I thought the easier modes were to help out the more casual players and guilds.  However, 30p for casual players and guilds is a HUGE sum.  I find this is more discouragement to guilds/players who are less than hardcore.   A very bad move.  Paying to play instances and dungeons...outrageous.</span></p>

[Gaige]

<p>If 30pp is a huge sum for a raid guild capable of killing x4 mobs then something is wrong.</p>

[Purrcey]

<p>We are not just talking 30p here, but 30p X4 mobs or 120pp. Unknown yet if that is per attempt but with one charge on charm item it very well may be. It would be pretty rare to pull and kill a raid enounter you have never seen the very first time you seen it. So 3-5 pulls to get the script down x 30p x 4 mobs...you get the picture.</p><p>Not sure this is the best way to implement raid scaling, IMHO.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me if the items are used once per instance. The level of the mobs strongly suggests this zone isn't intended to be done by pickup raids, and you could basically break even with the 120pp cost by doing Protectors Realm in 15 minutes after you finish if you're worried about it. The enormous amount of platinum entering the game via raiding does cry out for a few plat sinks here or there, and additional raiding content is a pretty logical place to do it.</p><p>The flip side, though, is that the loot of the zone needs to be good enough to encourage people to try despite the costs assosciated with it, and Munzok's Material Bastion isn't very encouraging for their first post-expansion-release zone.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>I'd imagine that the difficulty persists until the lockout expires at least.</p>

[Terrius]

<p>I went in and screwed around for awhile as my test buffed monk. 2 of the items off the merchant can be used anywhere? but didnt really seem to do anything. One of the items claimed it dispells certain summoned creatures, however when i used it on the only one of the first two named, that it actually let me use it on, absolutly nothing happened. wish there were more people on test copy, so we could actually test stuff O.O</p>

[Mustang8259]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OMG quit crying about 30pp.  Its like 1pp 40gp per member of the raid.  Most named drop more than 30pp.  First you cry because you can't clear zones now you cry because SOE is actually trying to put a plat sink into the game which affects some of its richest players (raiders).</p><p>I swear to God the constant crying about everything gets so old.</p></blockquote><p>My point is this:</p><p>It should be the hardcore people paying the plat to make it HARDER, after all they are the ones that can already most likely wipe their behinds with all the extra plat they have lying around, NOT the starting/intermediate guilds who are trying to build up to the point of Uberness.  Like most ideas from Sony lately it just seems back-butt-wards for the people with the least money/resources to have to pay even more to make it so they aren't just smashing their heads into a wall over and over again.</p><p>You make it sound like its the hardcore paying the price, and from the way everything looks so far its the other way around....</p>

[Gisallo]

<p>I think its more than a little silly.  I am one of the first to say "if I wanted easy I would play WoW" but to pay 30 plat for the "priviledge" of getting a nerfed loot table and likely nerfed plat drop to match?  There is no logic to it.  Simply having a nerfed loot table should be enough incentive to try and avoid easy mode.  I could see paying for the "tools" if, just to avoid having to code different loot tables, they kept the loot table the same.  Heck then I could see it being like 50 Plat a "tool" at least. </p><p>I understand the sentiment of "stop your whining" but really the nerfed loot table is enough of a price.  Do I want to get a lock out and get instance level loot or do I want to actually figure out the encounter with 24 other hard core sobs and have a chance at REAL Loot?  I will take door number 2 Bob.   Its not like anyone is going to actually add a guild that didn't kill the hardcore version to a Servers progression list so [Removed for Content] cares if they kill a gimped mob and get gimped loot for free?</p><p>  </p>

[Gladiolus]

<p>Entrance fees for a dungeon? Isn't that just asking for the gold farmers to get busy again?</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Entrance fees for a dungeon? Isn't that just asking for the gold farmers to get busy again?</p></blockquote><p>I was thinking the same thing actually.  Yes You can make easy plat just from a quick PR run.  Thing is though the guilds using these "easy mode" items are likely the ones that would have a hard time doing that and not having to spend a decent amount of the plat on repairs.  Add into that the cost of consumeables (food, potions, scrolls, stones etc) then you are looking at 3-4 plat for a short 3 hour raid and the more casual guilds and alliances that this is clearly geared towards will find those plat farmers pretty attractive.  If they do what I think they should, nerf the plat drop along with the loot drop, then a guild is clearly looking at a deficit, not even close to breaking even.</p><p>As I said it just doesn't make any sense with nerfed loot tables.  Unless you just want to say "hey casual guys we gave ya something" but made it so cost prohibitive that they most likely won't take you up on the offer and the rabid hard core people are happy because the casuals still don't see the inside of the zone.</p>

[HBP]

<p><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Entrance fees for a dungeon? Isn't that just asking for the gold farmers to get busy again?</p></blockquote><p>It's not a contested dungeon.....it's a raid instance.  And if a guild can't afford 30p for the said items, then they have no business raiding that zone anyway.  Like was said before...it's 1p 40g per person in raid....repair costs can cost more than that.</p>

[Hecula]

<p>Couple things:</p><p>I didn't see it said anywhere that the items you purchase from the gnome at the zone entrance had anything to do with selecting difficulty level of the encounter. Those items seem to indicate that they would make certain encounters easier, but perhaps they're part of the script - or even ways to make both versions easier with some extra $$. Point is: I don't think this zone has been tested yet and I haven't seen any dev comments on the zone, so all of this talk is, ATM, just conjecture.</p><p>Thank god it's not another Void zone. SoL better not be either.</p><p>30P is not unreasonable. Neither is 120P for an entire zone cleared that may not otherwise be cleared. Just remember: noone is going to force you to spend that $$ - can always beat it on normal mode. Or not run it.</p><p>If anyone feels like putting together a sign-up raid, I'd be interested.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like most ideas from Sony lately it just seems back-butt-wards for the people with the least money/resources to have to pay even more to make it so they aren't just smashing their heads into a wall over and over again.</p></blockquote><p>Why is it backwards that a guild incapable of clearing the content as intended has to pay in order to fight an easier version and get a reward?  That seems straight forward to me.</p><p>Without the 30pp option they'd what, not kill it at all and get no reward?</p><p>Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>Correct me if I am wrong but as of right now, noone has accually killed any of these mobs on "Easy Mode" as such noone accually knows what the reward for killing the MoB might be, it very well could be that the overall plat reward for clearing the Zone on Easy will not only cover the 120p but accually allow a small profit to be made. Not saying that is the case but it is possable.</p><p>Also, are we sure that all four items are required to tune a specific mob to "easy" because the devs at fan faire stated that we would be able to set each mob, on a mob by mob basis to Easy, Normal, or Hard, as such either one set of items are missing(hard mode) or 2 of the items are for easy the other two for hard, or the devs changed thier mind.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Like most ideas from Sony lately it just seems back-butt-wards for the people with the least money/resources to have to pay even more to make it so they aren't just smashing their heads into a wall over and over again.</blockquote><p>Just think of the coin you'll save with repair costs.</p><p>I'd assume that will more than cover the 30p, but feel free to have a look yourself.</p>

[FreaklyCreak]

<p>If you don't have the cash and you can only clear easy content then... Go kill the 4 skeletons in PR. HOLY CRAP YOU HAVE 30p NOW.</p>

[FracasKrusher]

<p>Will linkdeaths affect this game mechanic?</p><p>I mean if the zone crashes after the 1-shot item is used, please buy another charm (sorry no refunds..lol)?</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Persistant zones shouldn't have issues with LDs.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>FracasKrusher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Will linkdeaths affect this game mechanic?</p><p>I mean if the zone crashes after the 1-shot item is used, please buy another charm (sorry no refunds..lol)?</p></blockquote><p>Others have stated and it is likly the case that these items SHOULD last until the zone's timer resets. I don't know if it IS the case but it SOULD be the case if it isn't.</p>

[Froed20]

<p>30p isn't a huge deal for a raid.  That's only a little over 1 plat per person... heck, most named raid mobs nowadays drop more than that.  Honestly though, I don't like the idea very much.  There are so many more creative ways to deal with mob difficuilty than something as cheap and shallow as this.  Make it an item that you have to work for in the zone, such as a side quest within the zone itself, or make it certain events that happen through the fight where you have a window of oppertunity to stop x mob from being able to use his huge aoe by scaling a wall, donning a chicken suit, and distract him by flapping your arms and strutting around like a jerk.  Simply buying x item and using it is kind of boring.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>xpraetorianx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I dont get the whole deal with "short cuts" its stupid... even the hardest of the hardcore will more than likely use them...  why work harder when you dont have to? </p></blockquote><p>Because the hardcore guilds would do the harder version  for the better loot.</p><p>Its gonna be different loot tables and the harder version will have the better loot.All that is being done is  for  everyone to see and exsperience the same content which is the reason   they gave....but that doesnt include the same quality loot.</p><p>Or they can just do this....screw  raid  scaleing and leave it  hard.</p><p>There are plenty of easier content that smaller/more casual guilds can do already...stuff they havent beat or attempted yet im sure.</p><p>Also this isnt the first time something like this has been done......... 1+ plat spikes anyone?</p>

[Kizee]

<p>They are testing the waters with the plat cost....</p><p>Incoming in a few patchs....</p><p><clicks door></p><p>Welcome to random dungeon XXX.</p><p>Please enter Visa/mastercard number to zone in.</p><p>OR</p><p>Please visit the Smed bucks store to purchase your key to enter.</p>

[Landiin]

<p>IMO it should be the easy and hard version of a zone that cost and the middle one should be free. If there is no middle version then the easy zone should be free. As stated before it isn't any thing for raiding guilds to anti up the coin.</p>

[Mustang8259]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They are testing the waters with the plat cost....</p><p>Incoming in a few patchs....</p><p>Welcome to random dungeon XXX.</p><p>Please enter Visa/mastercard number to zone in.</p><p>OR</p><p>Please visit the Smed bucks store to purchase your key to enter.</p></blockquote><p>Hahaha thats kinda funny in a scary sorta way.  I really don't think they'd be that stupid though, no matter wether its hardcore or casual raiders that end up paying the plat cost for raiding i'm pretty sure both groups would tell Sony where to stick it if it ever came to paying RL cash for the "privilege" of raiding that we're already paying for with subscriptions costs and by buying expansion packs.  It's bad enough we have to pay twice with the addition of Smedcash for added content that should figuratively have been paid for by our monthly payments and expansion costs, but that's an argument for another thread which is already argued over vehemently...</p><p>*edited for clarity and spelling*</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>30p isn't a huge deal for a raid.  That's only a little over 1 plat per person... heck, most named raid mobs nowadays drop more than that.  Honestly though, I don't like the idea very much.  There are so many more creative ways to deal with mob difficuilty than something as cheap and shallow as this.  Make it an item that you have to work for in the zone, such as a side quest within the zone itself, or make it certain events that happen through the fight where you have a window of oppertunity to stop x mob from being able to use his huge aoe by scaling a wall, donning a chicken suit, and distract him by flapping your arms and strutting around like a jerk.  Simply buying x item and using it is kind of boring.</p></blockquote><p>There are only a few problems I see with this.  First as I understand it they have stated if you do easy mode you get nerfed loot drops.  Plat is loot so its not a stretch to assume the plat drop is nerfed as well.  Also it appears from the way the OP posted this, that these items are the current mechanism that will allow you to get the easy mode explained so if you need an item to make each named to be easy mode, need to pay 30 plat and don't make the 30 plat back [Removed for Content] even bother running the zone.  If thats a question why even bother making an easy mode x4 raid zone? </p><p>2nd the people who would want something on easy mode are the people that still find PR a challenge (yes there are guilds and alliances that find PR a challenge).  If Kunark raid mobs short of Trak and Maestro/Byzola (VS is nerfed <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) are not easy mode for these guilds getting plat from elsewhere is NOT easy.  Everyone saying getting 30 plat is easy is not really looking at it from the point of view of the people that need easy mode.</p><p>Personally I either want NO easy mode, or make the easy mode so the casuals can actually realistically run the zone.  They sure aren't going to IF, as inferred by the OP, you need to spend 120 plat in order to get in the door and then be at a deficit of plat due to this, consumeables, repairs and loot barely better than instance gear.  I am not one for making this game easy mode, but I find it even more annoying when they do things half baked.  </p><p>Now if these items are for use AFTER you just click on an option on the zone in door to make it even MORE easy or hard, okay, but that is not the premise of the thread so...    </p>

[Gormak]

<p>This threads getting a little out of hand.</p><p>Could a Dev please provide a statement stating (or expand on the dev post from earlier in the thread):</p><p>* How the level "modes" work, and their intended usage</p><p>* How the Scaling of rewards from encounters will work</p><p>* The intent of the vendor items post release (if any) on raids, and proposed zone difficulty settings.</p><p>It seems there is so much angst about what applicable where in what version of the zone, when in reality, it should be plainly simple. easy means easy in terms of TSO raiding, hard means get your whackamole stick, repair kits, 5 types of potions, and some strong sedatives for the nights raid.</p><p>Basically i see no reason why there should be confusion between intended difficulty settings as there appears to be. Note to the Casual base, Easy does not nessecarily mean PR easy. Easy means easy within a context or comparison.... That context may be Xebnok (as indicated earlier).</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Valkenberg@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> If thats a question why even bother making an easy mode x4 raid zone? </p></blockquote><p>Cause players and the current producer actually believe everyone should see every aspect of the game since everyone pays the same monthly subscription.</p><p>So instead of working towards that in terms of progression in guild or playstyle...they rather put a plat sink in.</p><p>But wait  everyone is saving on pp cause now master spells are free [Removed for Content].</p><p>Everything works itself out i guess heh.</p>

[ashen1973]

<p>before any more pitchforks are grabbed, a dev has posted in the stickied thread at the top of this page that the 30pp items are just temporary and for testing purposes</p><p><cite>Patherpanchali wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The zone is setup to be doable by most raiding groups, with some experience in fighting previous raids.  Only two of the zone denizens offer additional challenges for who are looking for a harder fight (with greater rewards).  The merchant items were placed there temporarily to make some of the entry mobs, who are already fairly straightforward, even easier.  The way these items will actually appear in game is still being worked out.  I just wanted to get the items in so that they could be tested.  The two mobs that offer greater challenge, for those seeking it, are Haladan and Miragul himself.  None of the other mobs are designed to be any harder than the mid-level mobs you find in Tomb of the Mad Crusader.  You may have to learn them, and they won't appear as easy at first, but once learned they should not prove much harder than the Naga or Xebnok in ToMC.</p></blockquote><p>discussions in test channels seem to point towards the items being finally placed ingame in such a way that they are available to guilds that have already mastered the first nameds and just want to speed up the process of getting to the final 2, more difficult, nameds.</p><p>I haven't seen a red-name post on this, but it does make sense.</p>

[Ferret]

<p>I think paying to [Removed for Content] the mob is a great idea.  I have busted my as's many nights learning and clearing raid zones to only see it get gimped after doing so.  To make it even worse the [Removed for Content] notes say what was changed making the mob even easier to kill.  Making people pay instead of holding their hand and helping them kill it is great!!!  I say 200p each peice.  If they don't like it step up their game!</p>

[shadowgate]

<p>My questions is why the 30pp on the test server? Why put any barrier in on testing this?</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Ferret@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think paying to [Removed for Content] the mob is a great idea.  I have busted my as's many nights learning and clearing raid zones to only see it get gimped after doing so.  To make it even worse the [Removed for Content] notes say what was changed making the mob even easier to kill.  Making people pay instead of holding their hand and helping them kill it is great!!!  I say 200p each peice.  If they don't like it step up their game!</p></blockquote><p>People wanting to make it harder should also pay a price.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>shadowgate wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My questions is why the 30pp on the test server? Why put any barrier in on testing this?</p></blockquote><p>Because plat means nothing on test servers?</p>

[Gladiolus]

<p>120p to play in a dungeon for an evening probably isn't a lot of money for a guild strong enough to regularly hunt in such dungeons at the highest difficulty level. However, it was my understanding that Sony wanted the other 95% to also use those dungeons. So instead of charging the rich guilds for the higher loot, they're wanting to charge the 95% for lesser loot? I'm still trying, and failing, to find the logic in this.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ferret@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think paying to [Removed for Content] the mob is a great idea.  I have busted my as's many nights learning and clearing raid zones to only see it get gimped after doing so.  To make it even worse the [Removed for Content] notes say what was changed making the mob even easier to kill.  Making people pay instead of holding their hand and helping them kill it is great!!!  I say 200p each peice.  If they don't like it step up their game!</p></blockquote><p>People wanting to make it harder should also pay a price.</p></blockquote><p>If this was an additional option, I doubt anyone would complain.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Gladiolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>120p to play in a dungeon for an evening probably isn't a lot of money for a guild strong enough to regularly hunt in such dungeons at the highest difficulty level. However, it was my understanding that Sony wanted the other 95% to also use those dungeons. So instead of charging the rich guilds for the higher loot, they're wanting to charge the 95% for lesser loot? I'm still trying, and failing, to find the logic in this.</p></blockquote><p>5 plat per person is hardly a significant amount.  You have farmers carrying around thousands of plat right now, and honestly running a few instances can land you that much money in no time.</p><p>More importantly I hate it that SOE made it so that there are easy-mode versions of the same zone.  The SoH style zones where there are a couple easy mobs, a couple medium difficulty mobs and than hard mobs let everybody taste a little bit of the content.</p><p>Disappointing.  Hopefully the loot more than makes up for it.</p>

[Xao June]

<p>A quote from the guy that put ths merchant in says that the method of the items entering the game is still being decided on.</p><p>The price of these items is currently a non issue.</p>

[urgthock]

<p>The only problem I have with paying 30 plat to reduce a mobs difficulty as stated in the OP (and yes, I am aware that there has been a some talk that it won't actually work this way), is the possibility of it becoming a slippery slope precedent.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Mustang8259 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OMG quit crying about 30pp.  Its like 1pp 40gp per member of the raid.  Most named drop more than 30pp.  First you cry because you can't clear zones now you cry because SOE is actually trying to put a plat sink into the game which affects some of its richest players (raiders).</p><p>I swear to God the constant crying about everything gets so old.</p></blockquote><p>My point is this:</p><p>It should be the hardcore people paying the plat to make it HARDER, after all they are the ones that can already most likely wipe their behinds with all the extra plat they have lying around, NOT the starting/intermediate guilds who are trying to build up to the point of Uberness.  Like most ideas from Sony lately it just seems back-butt-wards for the people with the least money/resources to have to pay even more to make it so they aren't just smashing their heads into a wall over and over again.</p><p><strong>You make it sound like its the hardcore paying the price, and from the way everything looks so far its the other way around....</strong></p></blockquote><p>Ummm?</p><p>Pay plat to kill something you would not otherwise be able to kill, how exactly does this benefit hardcore players that would kill this mob on its normal/harder version</p><p>They are GIVING you a way to advance without requiring you to have 24 people who can pay attention at the same time, looks like a good for you and others like you</p>

[Besual]

<p>The 30p for the easier mobs sounds like:</p><p>You can buy our car in the super sport delux edition with all extras included for 100.000$ or you can buy our economy edition with only the things needed to make the car moving for 150.000$.</p><p>You alwasy pay more to get more / extras => you want the better loot? Well, 30p please.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The 30p for the easier mobs sounds like:</p><p>You can buy our car in the super sport delux edition with all extras included for 100.000$ or you can buy our economy edition with only the things needed to make the car moving for 150.000$.</p><p>You alwasy pay more to get more / extras => you want the better loot? Well, 30p please.</p></blockquote><p>Or on the contrary..</p><p>If you are too crappy of a raider.. pay extra to see content you normally wouldnt see.</p>

[Alrunes]

<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The 30p for the easier mobs sounds like:</p><p>You can buy our car in the super sport delux edition with all extras included for 100.000$ or you can buy our economy edition with only the things needed to make the car moving for 150.000$.</p><p>You alwasy pay more to get more / extras => you want the better loot? Well, 30p please.</p></blockquote><p>I would think a more accurate car analogy would be the super deluxe fully model has features that the driver must be able to manually handle to realize the maxium performance for the vehicle. Now if you can not handle monitoring all of those features and drive the car at the same time, then we,ie the devs, can make some of them automatic for you like the transmission, ie limit the adds or number of things to cure. However, the automation will cost you and you will lose performance, IE lesser loot rewarded for the kill. Even with the automation you will still be driving a flashy sports car you normally could not handle, and reaping rewards that you would not be if you were driving the average minivan.  </p>

[Valanthe]

<p>Per the sticky thread up top, they haven't said how they're actually going to be put in game yet and the merchant at the front is for test purposes only.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Valanthe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Per the sticky thread up top, they haven't said how they're actually going to be put in game yet and the merchant at the front is for test purposes only.</p></blockquote><p>Yes it is for test but obviously that's how they though of implementing it or they wouldn't of put in like that. Nothing is done randomly, it was put in like that for a reason and that was to test the waters on it. If no one said any thing it would most likely gone live like that too.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Valanthe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Per the sticky thread up top, they haven't said how they're actually going to be put in game yet and the merchant at the front is for test purposes only.</p></blockquote><p>Yes it is for test but obviously that's how they though of implementing it or they wouldn't of put in like that. Nothing is done randomly, it was put in like that for a reason and that was to test the waters on it. If no one said any thing it would most likely gone live like that too.</p></blockquote><p>Sometimes things put on test really are just temporary. There's not a consipiracy behind everything they put on test <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Valanthe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Per the sticky thread up top, they haven't said how they're actually going to be put in game yet and the merchant at the front is for test purposes only.</p></blockquote><p>Yes it is for test but obviously that's how they though of implementing it or they wouldn't of put in like that. Nothing is done randomly, it was put in like that for a reason and that was to test the waters on it. If no one said any thing it would most likely gone live like that too.</p></blockquote><p>Sometimes things put on test really are just temporary. There's not a consipiracy behind everything they put on test <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Yep, it is like saying because they put Buffers on Test that means that means we will soon(tm) be getting buffers on live. They where put in specifically for testing perposes so that they can a) test the mechanic and b) get people to the mob they want to focus test more quickly. I remember back in Beta all the enterances to all the TSO instances where via Portals(similar to what you use to get to the Mistmyre zones), only the Misymyre zones accually used those every other zone had some other means of getting in eventually.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>ke'la wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lord_Ebon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Valanthe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Per the sticky thread up top, they haven't said how they're actually going to be put in game yet and the merchant at the front is for test purposes only.</p></blockquote><p>Yes it is for test but obviously that's how they though of implementing it or they wouldn't of put in like that. Nothing is done randomly, it was put in like that for a reason and that was to test the waters on it. If no one said any thing it would most likely gone live like that too.</p></blockquote><p>Sometimes things put on test really are just temporary. There's not a consipiracy behind everything they put on test <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote>Yep, it is like saying because they put Buffers on Test that means that means we will soon(tm) be getting buffers on live. They where put in specifically for testing perposes so that they can a) test the mechanic and b) get people to the mob they want to focus test more quickly. I remember back in Beta all the enterances to all the TSO instances where via Portals(similar to what you use to get to the Mistmyre zones), only the Misymyre zones accually used those every other zone had some other means of getting in eventually.</blockquote><p>Oh really they are not going to put the buffer live? Golly gee Beave that is the silliest comparison I've ever seen on these forums.The portals in TSO where like that because the graphics and geometry wasn't complete yet in the parent zone it didn't take a genius to know that.I'll bet something very much like what is on test no goes live.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>If there are different loot tables then why does there need to be a fee?  The people selling mythical updates and raid loot are the ones with all the cash yet they want to tax the casual guilds?</p><p>Very lame SOE, very lame. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p><p>So now we have to do a PR run for cash before we can do this place. </p>

[Sploit]

<p>You guys do realise that a dev has explicitly stated that the item vendor will be only on the testserver for testing purposes, and that it won't go live like that right?</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Sploit@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You guys do realise that a dev has explicitly stated that the item vendor will be only on the testserver for testing purposes, and that it won't go live like that right?</p></blockquote><p>People love arguing about stuff without reading the posts in a thread. It's kind of funny to see the continued "outrage" over something that is a test-only mechanic, hehe.</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Why would you need to charge people to test a dungeon?  If they weren't considering this for live, why even have it?  It does not compute.</span></p>

[Reiella]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Why would you need to charge people to test a dungeon?  If they weren't considering this for live, why even have it?  It does not compute.</span></p></blockquote><p>Because despite currency being value-less on test, it does serve as some means to dissuade folks from only testing with the item-enabled mode?</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><cite>Reiella wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Why would you need to charge people to test a dungeon?  If they weren't considering this for live, why even have it?  It does not compute.</span></p></blockquote><p>Because despite currency being value-less on test, it does serve as some means to dissuade folks from only testing with the item-enabled mode?</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;"><blink blink></span></p><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">I thought they were trying to encourage people to test servers, not discourage them.</span></p>

[Reiella]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Reiella wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">Why would you need to charge people to test a dungeon?  If they weren't considering this for live, why even have it?  It does not compute.</span></p></blockquote><p>Because despite currency being value-less on test, it does serve as some means to dissuade folks from only testing with the item-enabled mode?<span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;"><blockquote></blockquote></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif; font-size: small;">I thought they were trying to encourage people to test servers, not discourage them.</span></p></blockquote><p>Ah I think you're missing what I meant dissuade folks from ONLY testing with the items.  I'd presume they want both "With the Item" and "Without the Item" tested.  Even though the coin cost is pretty trival when you consider it's test server it may serve as some form of minor influence to keep folks from only testing With the Item.</p>

[Hecula]

<p>FYI - as of Monday the afore-mentioned items were removed from the gnome. So for the time being, rants on the "cost" of these items mean nothing. Time to move on.</p>

[bluefish]

<p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The 30p for the easier mobs sounds like:</p><p>You can buy our car in the super sport delux edition with all extras included for 100.000$ or you can buy our economy edition with only the things needed to make the car moving for 150.000$.</p><p>You alwasy pay more to get more / extras => you want the better loot? Well, 30p please.</p></blockquote><p>not a good analogy as you do not understand the concept .. A better analogy would be</p><p>You can buy the car outright for 100k if you can afford it .. but instead we can also let you finance it for five years but it will cost you extra ( 150k) so now you can have the car when you dont have 100k to drop on it all at once.</p><p>same thing with the raid zone .. their are guild that can spank the zone as is .. but in case your guild is not up to snuff you can do it on an easier version but its gonna cost you for that easioer version ( 30 plat)</p><p>it makes sense to me</p><p>.</p>

[Ran]

<p><cite>Teeboy@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Besual wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The 30p for the easier mobs sounds like:</p><p>You can buy our car in the super sport delux edition with all extras included for 100.000$ or you can buy our economy edition with only the things needed to make the car moving for 150.000$.</p><p>You alwasy pay more to get more / extras => you want the better loot? Well, 30p please.</p></blockquote><p>not a good analogy as you do not understand the concept .. A better analogy would be</p><p>You can buy the car outright for 100k if you can afford it .. but instead we can also let you finance it for five years but it will cost you extra ( 150k) so now you can have the car when you dont have 100k to drop on it all at once.</p><p>same thing with the raid zone .. their are guild that can spank the zone as is .. but in case your guild is not up to snuff you can do it on an easier version but its gonna cost you for that easioer version ( 30 plat)</p><p>it makes sense to me</p></blockquote><p>So you're saying you pay 30plat for getting an easier version with the hardcore loot? (which makes no sense) or do you say you pay 30plat just for seeing this zone with easier versions and weaker loot? (which makes also no sense)</p><p>What was the reason not just ask for difficulty when you click on the zone entry? I don't wanne think of the problems which might come up cause you can set mobs different in a running zone with 24 people in it...</p>

[Gungo]

<p>omg you people have no freakin clue....</p><p>Dont post on the test forums if you dont log in the test server.</p><p>The items stpped being 30 plat weeks ago. They were reduced to like 17gp. They were there just to test the encounters.</p>