Missing Invulnerability

[VALKOR]

<p>While I realize there is already a similar topic ( <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=449374" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=449374</a> ), the underlying issue is that every class now has a full invulnerability with the exception of paladins.  It's entirely possible that the developers had our Faithful Cry ability with damage, taunt, and healing in mind as the balance to the SK Furor ability with damage, taunt, and invulnerability.  In that case, the invulnerability is far superior to the healing and Essence Siphon is also a much more exciting ability than Stonewall.</p><p>Here are the relevant abilities for invulnerability:</p><p>Guardian/Berserker: Dragoon's Reflexes (12 secs invulnerability)Monk: Tsunami (12 secs invulnerability)Bruiser: Impenetrable Will (12 secs invulnerability)ShadowKnight: Shadowknight's Furor (15 secs invulnerability)Paladin: [no invulnerability]A few of the classes above have access to a second invulnerability through their mythical, AA, etc. but the real issue I see is that paladins do not have even one.  When it was a unique monk ability, I had no problem with our limited Divine Aura but since every tank now has invulnerability except paladins, it's time to fix it by doing one of the following:</p><p>-----Option 1) Make Stonewall (Paladin endline TSO ability) a 12 sec complete invulnerability in place of the current block one attack.  This would give paladins a single full invulnerability without affecting SKs.</p><p>Option 2) Replace the healing component of Faithful Cry (Paladin endline TSO ability) with invulnerability and reduce the duration to 15 seconds.  This would also give paladins a single full invulnerability without affecting SKs and at a minor cost of 5 seconds less dps and taunts.</p><p>Option 3) Make the crusader Divine Aura down the STA line 100% invulnerability by removing the 50% health limit and putting the 50% health limit on Shadowknight's Furor instead.</p><p>This would give both Paladins and Shadowknights a complete invulnerability (at 10 secs it would still be the shortest in the game), and while the Shadowknight's Furor would continue to be much better than the comparable Paladin TSO taunt/dps ability even with a 50% health restriction, it would keep the invulnerabilities balanced.  Shadowknight's Furor is currently the best single invulnerability (lasts longest and comes with both taunt boost and spell boost).  Therefore if you improve Divine Aura, you need to cap the SK ability to be fair to all the other tanks.  Moving the 50% cap from Divine Aura to Shadowknight's Furor solves that problem.</p><p>-----</p><p>Any of those options would redress the lack of a full invulnerability for paladins, and while other classes would still have access to more and/or better invulnerabilities, the paladin would at least have a fighting chance to compete for tanking mobs that require the ability to withstand a quick flurry of massive attacks.</p><p>I know SKs won't be happy with a reduction (even if it remains far better than comparable abilities) so I would have no problem with something else being bumped up to compensate.  The real issue here is providing a single invulnerability to paladins, and if that is done through the crusader STA line, then SKs need to have their TSO endline invulnerability modified to have a 50% health cap or else removed completely and replaced with a steal health from mob to heal themselves in order to keep invulnerabilities balanced among tanks.</p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<p>Just for the record, Faithful Cry is the best AA they have came up for us in a long time and i dont want to see a dev change anything on it.  If anything i would like them to change stonewall to one of the suggestions in the latest stonewall thread and ditch the lay on hands boost in the paladin tso line and replace with a divine aura enhance AA.  Make each point raise the health check 10% with a 10% recast reduction per point spent, leaving the final divine aura to be 100% health Stoneskin for 10 seconds and 50% quicker recast on it.  Since it is in the paladin line of TSO tree, this will not be shared from the shadowknights either.</p>

[Stonestrong]

<p>Do not change faithfull cry, period....</p>

[Kahling]

<p>Aye changing faithful cry would be like changing Knight' stance, ie a bad idea its one of the best they have come up with.</p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p>Those other fighter abilities - the way they are written, do they apply to all attacks? - eg 100% parry - does that parry spells or just autoattack/CAs?</p><p>Either way, I hadn't realised ALL other fighters get them, that really is unfair.  Whatever spreadsheet/model they are using for comparing fighters, needs to look at spike damage.  In that area, we got nadda.</p>

[Wullail]

<p>as far as I can remember (it's been a while since I played my bruiser) <span >Bruiser: Impenetrable Will (12 secs invulnerability) isn't invulberability , it's a fairly large mitigation increase , but it stuns the  Bruiser so you can't taunt.</span></p><p><span >the effect is never used , most bruisers I know don't even have it on their hotbars.</span></p><p><span >You hit that , you take some large hits but your HP still goes down and then the healers get heal agro and die.</span></p>

[Maamadex]

<p>Stonewall is the AA that compares with Furor, make no mistake, Faithful Cry is an attack that has a 50 meter range. Shadowknights get essence Siphon, 50 meter range, does dmg, takes off spell and ca dmg and gives it to the group.</p><p>The problem lies in how weak Stonewall is, in terms of class balance. Shadowknights deserve Furor, I don't want it changed or reduced, i just would like to see our endline enhanced to the point where its not just a slap in the face. It could even reduce a lot of dmg taken for a time, or be some kind of reactive heal, or anything. It need not be just some sort of cookie cutter 100% parry/riposte/stoneskin. Its just a horrid piece of trash atm. I use it, it has a use, but its not like I ever go ok I got this, everyone can breathe easy Stonewall is up. Its our main endline defensive ability, and its lackluster. It doesn't even live up to its name, its not a Stonewall, its a very small wall that breaks easily.</p>

[VALKOR]

<p>Based on the 3 threads going on this now, no one wants to see Faithful Cry changed or see anything done to SKs, which would happen with a Divine Aura change.  That makes option 1 the most desirable (which is why it's option 1).</p><p>While I understand that you look at the invulnerability and think it matches up, you have to consider the other 2 abilities as well as the general belief expressed in posts (whether or not you buy it) that healing is our compensation for lacking invulnerabilites.</p><p>Line them up side by side and the SK Furor has damage , taunt, and invulnerability.  Paladin's Faithful Cry has damage, taunt, and healing.  2 out 3 match up and once you see that the devs have pushed healing as our equivalent, you've got a complete match up.  Obviously, healing is not even close to invulnerability as you have to live through, and while I can't recall the exact posts, I know I've read that argument somewhere from at least one dev.</p><p>In any case, we've (and by that I mean a lot of other folks as I'm coming into this late) made a strong case but I think it's been too focused on a solution (improve Stonewall) rather than the actual problem (every tank has an invulnerability except paladins).</p><p>As for bruisers, you can certainly use an ability that stuns during an AoE joust to absorb the flurry.  Also, bruiser has a 2nd invulnerability from their mythical so they've got options.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>Both Faithful Cry and Essence Siphon are attacks, I don't know where you get Faithful Cry and furor compare but you are just plain wrong sorry. Furor is a defensive ability, faithful cry, despite having a heal is offensive in nature, its an attack. Stonewall is what compares to furor.</p><p>Making Stonewall not be a terrible piece of garbage is what paladins want.</p>

[Abrahm]

<p>Just a thought...what if we got Stonewall as an AOE blocker instead of a melee blocker?  I have no idea what it would take to code it so that it only worked on AOEs, but it seems that ability exists in other forms (signet?), so it should be possible.</p><p>That would give the noble Paladins their Faithful Cry (which rocks, by the way, just as an endline ability should...), and the ability to keep standing/tanking when the next big "kaboom" hits.  Keeping the reuse timer the same would keep this from being overpowered - you would definitely have to choose the right time to use it.  It would, however, make this a meaningful and valued endline ability.  (By the way, if this has already been suggested, my apologies for duplicating.  Great Pallies think alike...)</p><p>What say you?</p>

[Jaale]

This is a good idea but it doesn't help with the problem of damage invulnerability. Also all current AE blockers are non direct only meaning that the tank will still be squashed. Unless you mean you want it to avoid the next AE the mob fires, which means it will be next to useless as this should be something that the healers are preparing for anyway. This doesn't help the Pally at all. We need something that will protect the pally when things hit the pan not when the next AE hits. As I said it is a good idea but not in this particular case. Personally I would make Stonewall a 12 sec invulnerability it's in line with the others and not over powered for an end line 182AA point ability. Better than just one hit.

[Abrahm]

<p>Actually, I was thinking along the lines of AOE blocker for a whole group...doesn't do much good to keep the tank up if everyone else is dead.  I do, however, see your point.  I was just looking for alternatives, and that is not really what we need here.  We need to get the Paladin endline ability changed to be on par with the other tanks.  Thanks for the good discussion.</p><p>I'm on board - 12 sec invulnerability is the best choice.  SOE, please change it.</p>