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View Full Version : Debuffs, PUGs and mentoring.


Wyndrith
07-06-2009, 03:42 PM
<p>Hello all,</p><p>I'm here to bring up an issue concerning PUG'ing etiquette with Shamans in particular. This particular issue involves mentoring down (too low) in a PUG where the benefits are outweighed by the detrimental effects. Here is my example to elaborate:</p><p>Recently I've been joining PUGs on my Defiler as I find solo'ing painful and not too enjoyable (still around level 59), so it's definitely more pleasant when I'm warding someone other than myself. Sometimes, but more especially these PUGs involve part of a guild group missing a healer slot to fill which is where I come in. What has been bothering me is being asked to mentor down to the(ir) lowest member, mostly I suppose to help that person level a bit faster. I usually don't mind this, although I'm usually not the highest leveled person either so why I get picked is something I haven't figured out.</p><p>Now the zone/instance is usually a few levels above the group so the mobs will be mostly yellow/orange ^^-^^^ heroics. When this happens I can't help but feel that I've gotten the short-end of the stick as far as mentoring for the group goes. "Why", you ask?</p><p>When the MT starts pulling in these heroics, my wards at times are barely able to keep up with the incoming damage. I'm also Ritual/Curseweave spec'd so I rely on both wards and debuffs (in that order) in order to  help mitigate the damage. Since I'm mentored a few levels lower than I feel I should be (maybe 3-4 levels lower than the MT, and then consider the mobs are about 5-6 levels higher heroic; so almost 10 levels gap between myself and the mob), my debuffs fizzle and resist most if not all the time, so it becomes an apparently futile effort on my part. This is what concerns me most when I consider that my primary debuffs reduce mob attack speed by about 36% and DPS by about 38%. So what ends up happening is the tank gets smashed like a truck and I'm literally stuck to acting ward/heal botting the rest of the run, when I could be doing so much better for the group if I was just up to the MT level or higher if mentoring wasn't neccessary. Now add on top of that if we get ADDs and those aren't taken care of, wipes are pretty much a given. Despite nearly half of my potential as a healer being ignored in this manner, I try not to make an issue of it and play well to their hosting a zone/instance run, and try to enjoy the situation as best as I can.</p><p>My personal view on this issue is that perhaps many people still don't understand the importance of Shaman debuffs (or other Priests' for that matter). Why would it be entirely neccessary for me to mentor down to someone so they can level a bit faster, but my own performance would be hindered and thus hinder the group as <strong>sole healer</strong>? Is it so important for so-and-so to level 10% faster but the MT also risks dieing a lot faster? Why can't I just <span style="text-decoration: underline;">not</span> mentor even if the mobs are already blue/green ^^-^^^; I gain less exp, but it evens out if I mentor anyway since mentoring reduces exp gain. If I can keep up a tank better - that is, land debuffs so s/he takes 38% less damage at 36% less speed - and without that risk of seeing him/her die so fast, it would be <span style="text-decoration: underline;">faster and safer</span> exp for all. Although I try not to feel bad when the MT does die, as sole healer the guilt becomes inevitable until I think of how it could be helped if I wasn't mentoring so low.</p><p>Although, on the flip side -- are my debuffs all that much of a fuss to worry about? I'm all mastercrafted and AD3 if not mastered, and I'm fairly certain I do my best to keep a group up and running. What are other Priests thinking when this happens to them? Do you feel your potential to a group is limited in this type of situation, and how do you deal with this? I'm sure this issue isn't unique, so any input would be very helpful at this point.</p>

Greggthegrmreapr
07-07-2009, 02:07 PM
<p>Offer to mentor down to the highest one if you need to mentor at all.  The lower you mentor, the less your wards and heals do, and the harder it is to land debuffs.</p>

Kari
07-08-2009, 01:34 AM
<p>When I was leveling up my success on solo healing an orange zone was pretty much related to how well geared and played the group was. If it is a solid group you should be fine to heal any zone that you are high enough to cure, but if they are poorly geared or just not good players it could be really stressful and unenjoyable,</p><p>I expect that the pug groups need you more than you need them. If mentoring is going to stress you out or make a less enjoyable experience I would recommend that you tell them you prefer not to mentor. If the zone cons to you, it is selfish of them to ask you to give up half your xp to their member anyway. If they want to drop a prefectly good healer and try to recruit for one that will mentor their lowest member, then just wish them luck and find another group.</p><p>If you are greying out some of the mobs, then it is reasonable for them to ask you to mentor and you should just pick someone of a comfortable level. If you want to give it a shot with their lowest member, just give it a few pulls and if you aren't enjoying yourself then tell them you are going to mentor to a higher level group member.</p><p>Kari</p>

Peculu
07-09-2009, 05:28 PM
<p>No one should ever expect you to mentor down to the lowest level, in fact, that's a bid bass ackwards.  You should always mentor to the highest level in the group.  As for your debuffs, keep in mind Atrophy says lowers dps by (fake number inc) 36, not 36%.  Big difference there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Ba
07-11-2009, 04:59 AM
<p>Odd. I was under the impression that "lowers DPS by 36" meant a base of -36% also..... just like "lowers attack speed by 30" lowers it by -30% (and "increases attack speed by 15" means +15%).</p><p>Of course diminishing returns, minimum caps and other factors still come into play, but I believe that the OP is correct and % is implied on attack speed and dps buffs/debuffs even if not specifically listed.</p>

Kari
07-12-2009, 11:57 AM
<p>Our debuffs used to act on a % reduction, but they were severely nerfed to the current point system a couple of expansions ago. I believe that most NPC's are on a 200 point scale, although I can't find the thread to verify that number off hand.</p>

Rayche
07-15-2009, 04:10 PM
<p>If they're all so worried about getting XP funneled to the lowest level member then let the other 4 members mentor him. You mentor the highest level and then you can all fly through the instance 3x as fast.</p>