How long must we wait???

[jadsded]

<blockquote><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218"><strong>SPELLS</strong></a> <p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218"><em>Necromancer</em></a></p> <ul><li><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218" target="_blank">Undead Knight VI once again has Gargoyle appearances [changed due to player feedback].</a></li></ul></blockquote><p>When are we going to see:</p><ul><li>All Guardian taunts are now more effective [changed due to player feedback]????</li></ul>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Jadd@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218"><strong>SPELLS</strong></a> <p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218"><em>Necromancer</em></a></p> <ul><li><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=454218" target="_blank">Undead Knight VI once again has Gargoyle appearances [changed due to player feedback].</a></li></ul></blockquote><p>When are we going to see:</p><ul><li>All Guardian taunts are now more effective [changed due to player feedback]????</li></ul></blockquote><p>I very long time......based on everything ive read from fan faire it seems things are gonna keep going the way they have...DPS DPS DPS.......zones full of multi-mob encounters.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Till 2/10</p>

[Kordran]

<p>Just changing taunts for the Guardian is something they likely feel they cannot do in a vaccuum; every other fighter class would immediately be howling for the same kind of boost to their own taunt effectiveness. And although I understand what the OP is saying, you can't really compare a fluff change like the appearance of a pet to a core class mechanic (or what should be one, anyway).</p><p>Regardless, I think it's unlikely they're going to be making any substantive class changes, to either combat arts or AA abilities, before the next expansion. And I'll bet that some of those AA changes for Guardian will allow them to convert some of their ST attacks to AE attacks, giving them the choice to either go with the traditional MT/ST spec, or an AE/DPS spec more suited for a lot of heroic content.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just changing taunts for the Guardian is something they likely feel they cannot do in a vaccuum; every other fighter class would immediately be howling for the same kind of boost to their own taunt effectiveness. And although I understand what the OP is saying, you can't really compare a fluff change like the appearance of a pet to a core class mechanic (or what should be one, anyway).</p><p>Regardless, I think it's unlikely they're going to be making any substantive class changes, to either combat arts or AA abilities, before the next expansion. And I'll bet that some of those AA changes for Guardian will allow them to convert some of their ST attacks to AE attacks, giving them the choice to either go with the traditional MT/ST spec, or an AE/DPS spec more suited for a lot of heroic content.</p></blockquote><p>Have you not read any of the exp notes?</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Have you not read any of the exp notes?</blockquote><p>In terms of what? I've seen nothing specific with reference to Guardians, and even the general stuff (making defensive stance desirable, etc.) has been overwhelmingly vague. They're going to be expanding the base and subclass trees, but I haven't read any specifics at all about what's going to be in them or how they're going to work.</p><p>Everything I've read indicates that if they're going to address any issues with Guardians, or tanking in general, it's going to be with the next expansion 8 months down the road, and not sooner. You have additional information you'd like to share with the class?</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Even still, just because Aerilik is going to attempt some kind of balancing again in Feb. doesn't mean we won't be worse off than we already are now. Any way it goes, I can almost promise you there is going to be one or two fighters that basically suck in general, one OP one, and the rest meh. Which catagory we will fall in is a dice roll and depends on whatever Aerilik has going on in his head. Eight months is a long time to wait and get your hopes up to <em>possibly</em> be brought up to par with other tanks. I wouldn't be surprised if we are equaled or surpassed in defense either. From now to then plus the cost of the expansion that's another $160 we'll be giving to SOE in the slim chance they will get it right this time. Given the past broken promises, fubars, and the absolutely pathetic response/communication to/with the community, I'm not optimistic.</p><p>He broke our threat control with a stupid nerf that wasn't needed which gimped our epic weapon with the sweet promise of fixing us "sometime down the road", gave other fighters boosted defense and dps, and abandoned our class, and has completely failed at balancing or tweaking any classes the entire MFing expansion. Summoners suck, guardians pretty much blow as is evident if you look at threads here or eq2 flames with all the complaints since the careless and un-needed nerf, druids are bleh and their tank buffs are crap, utility classes are probably the most OP classes in the game, and he sits at his desk day after day after day playing solitair not getting s*** done. There are about 2,000 hours at work in a year for the average American and it's been well over 1,000 hours and he has done jack squat. He is a complete and utter failure of a game mechanics developer, and if Sony is paying him more than 8 bucks an hour they are getting ripped off.</p><p>Delete this, ban me, silence me, cuz I want to vent and don't give a [Removed for Content] anymore. Maybe if the day comes where I don't have to spam /lfg for 3 hours with 50 freakin SKs /lfg until I log off [Removed for Content] I'll care.</p><p>FK.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even still, just because Aerilik is going to attempt some kind of balancing again in Feb. doesn't mean we won't be worse off than we already are now. Any way it goes, I can almost promise you there is going to be one or two fighters that basically suck in general, one OP one, and the rest meh. Which catagory we will fall in is a dice roll and depends on whatever Aerilik has going on in his head. Eight months is a long time to wait and get your hopes up to <em>possibly</em> be brought up to par with other tanks. I wouldn't be surprised if we are equaled or surpassed in defense either. From now to then plus the cost of the expansion that's another $160 we'll be giving to SOE in the slim chance they will get it right this time. Given the past broken promises, fubars, and the absolutely pathetic response/communication to/with the community, I'm not optimistic.</p><p>He broke our threat control with a stupid nerf that wasn't needed which gimped our epic weapon with the sweet promise of fixing us "sometime down the road", gave other fighters boosted defense and dps, and abandoned our class, and has completely failed at balancing or tweaking any classes the entire MFing expansion. Summoners suck, guardians pretty much blow as is evident if you look at threads here or eq2 flames with all the complaints since the careless and un-needed nerf, druids are bleh and their tank buffs are crap, utility classes are probably the most OP classes in the game, and he sits at his desk day after day after day playing solitair not getting s*** done. There are about 2,000 hours at work in a year for the average American and it's been well over 1,000 hours and he has done jack squat. He is a complete and utter failure of a game mechanics developer, and if Sony is paying him more than 8 bucks an hour they are getting ripped off.</p><p>Delete this, ban me, silence me, cuz I want to vent and don't give a [Removed for Content] anymore. Maybe if the day comes where I don't have to spam /lfg for 3 hours with 50 freakin SKs /lfg until I log off [Removed for Content] I'll care.</p><p>FK.</p></blockquote> <p><cite>From the </cite><a href="list.m?topic_id=454098">Slides from the Mechanics and Tradeskill Panel (Fan Faire 2009)</a> post</p><blockquote><span><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fighter Balance Part II</span></strong></p><p>* Adjust taunts and hate gain abilities.* Consolidate Block and Deflection. Use one standard modifier.* Brawlers will gain a clear advantage to avoidance proxy buffs.* Improve desirability of defensive stance.* Defensive and Damage balancing.</p></span></blockquote><p>It isn't a guardian issue. yes guards have issues with agro but guards are just a spoke in the wheel. Changes have to be made across the board to make things right and from the mechanics panel that is what it looks like they are trying to do..</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>It isn't a guardian issue. yes guards have issues with agro but guards are just a spoke in the wheel. Changes have to be made across the board to make things right and from the mechanics panel that is what it looks like they are trying to do..</blockquote><p>Right, and as I pointed out, that list from FF is profoundly vague; absolutely no real details as to what they're going to do have surfaced, only that they are/may/should be/want to do something about "fighter balance". That's like me saying that I want to do something about world hunger and peace in the Middle East. Wonderful, but entirely meaningless without the details of how I'm going to go about achieving those goals.</p><p>If the fiasco that was the fighter revamp tells us anything, the Devil is in the details here. And we have none.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>I expect what we will end with is pretty much the same [Removed for Content] thing they tried to do with the fighter revamp.....just this time they wont tell us about....and do it smaller 'increments'.</p><p>Im am confident that while they scraped due to backlash..they still believe it was a good design/approach.</p><p>The fighter revamp....the crit consolidation and all the other things mentioned at FF lead me to believe that they are on a path to force everyone to one style of play, one set of gear, with very little room for player choice in how well we perform or not.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I expect what we will end with is pretty much the same [Removed for Content] thing they tried to do with the fighter revamp.....just this time they wont tell us about....and do it smaller 'increments'.</p><p>Im am confident that while they scraped due to backlash..they still believe it was a good design/approach.</p><p>The fighter revamp....the crit consolidation and all the other things mentioned at FF lead me to believe that they are on a path to force everyone to one style of play, one set of gear, with very little room for player choice in how well we perform or not.</p></blockquote><p>I expect the same thing, all it takes is reading between the lines and you can see that is what they are doing. I am sure it will have some tweeks but the over all jest will be the same as it was.</p>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><span><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fighter Balance Part II</span></strong></p><p>* Adjust taunts and hate gain abilities.* Consolidate Block and Deflection. Use one standard modifier.* Brawlers will gain a clear advantage to avoidance proxy buffs.* Improve desirability of defensive stance.* Defensive and Damage balancing.</p></span></blockquote></blockquote><p>Here's another one from the "Improving Basic Systems Continued" slide:</p><p>* Consolidate some common buff lines like fighter and scout stances with self buffs.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Here's another one from the "Improving Basic Systems Continued" slide:<p>* Consolidate some common buff lines like fighter and scout stances with self buffs. </p></blockquote><p>That's another one that really depends on implementation. If they combine the common buffs into <em>both</em> stances then it's not an issue; just fewer buttons to push. Where they got into trouble last time is trying to force tanks into only being able to have certain buffs in certain stances. If they try to go down that road again, they're going to get as much pushback from the tanks this time around as they did the last time.</p>