Consolidated Bruiser issues for Sentinel's Fate (rev Jan.2011) [Archive]

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Aule

07-01-2009, 04:07 AM

[DoV - thread no longer being updated and should be considered obsolete]Revised Jan.2011[ Any outstanding issues will be addressed in Beta ]Primary issues that need addressing are contained within this first post. Additional information is available in the next two posts, but for any developer that needs a short and sweet list of issues that need to be addressed, here they are:<ul><li>Brawler's Tenacity - Needs a longer duration. Duration was changed to 45s from initial 20s value. That was a good start, but really it needs to be at least 45s for first rank and 90s for second rank. Ideally we'd like to see rank 1 as a 3 minute duration 1 charge, and rank 2 as an Until Cancelled, 2 charge buff. The value of 2 charges of death prevent is tremendously marginalized with a duration of only 45s.</li><li>Eagle's Patience - Please make this ability useful. Having it tied to the INT line is terribly bad. Simply remove the requirement for Eagle Shriek to be up, and you have yourself an excellent double-attack prevention temp. On this same note, of the 5 new end-line abilities in the Brawler tree, 4 of them require the underlying tree to be completed in order to make use of the abilities. Optional: have end of INT line enhance the ability by making it auto-fire when you drop below 50% instead of having to be keyed by the brawler.</li><li>Target Locks - Divide and Conquer, and Drag, are both not working in raids, other than on trash heroic adds. Drag is now reduced to primarily a Battlegrounds CA, which is unacceptable. Divide and Conquer does not lock ANYthing x2 or above, NO trash mob should EVER be immune to target locks. </li><li>Combat Aren'ts – The following Combat Arts are still classified as spells instead of combat arts and so are modified by base spell damage, rather than base melee damage. Bruisers are not a hybrid class as crusaders are, 100% of our abilities should be combat arts that deal melee damage and as such be affected by melee damage increases. Brutality, our raidwide buff, increases melee damage by 5%, the abilities on this list are not affected by our own buff, instead we need a Shadowknight providing their raidwide buff in order to improve them. This is non-sensical.<ul><li>Bruising (proc)</li><li>Lightning Fist</li><li>Smoldering Fists (proc)</li><li>Manhandle</li><li>Knockout Combination </li></ul><ul><li>Wild Beating</li><li>Mantis Bolt (proc)</li><li>Crane Twirl (proc)</li></ul></li></ul>Additionally, since Wild Beating is not a combat art it does not trigger the effect on Knockout Combination (Shove) since it requires a combat art to be used, and this AA is a spell.<ul><li>Lack of a group buff. This ties in with abilities that are useless or nearly so. Lightning Fist should be changed to an always up group damage buff or a spectacular temp buff and rock skin should be changed to an always up group utility. Currently as bruisers stand they add some value to the raid as a whole, but no value to the group they are in. End result is that whichever group gets the brawler feels shorted on buffage (and would prefer to have an Sk).Brawlers in general already have to fight the negative perception of the class in order to get a spot on a raid. The fact that all 4 plate fighters ALSO provide more utility and buffing to their group simply compounds the problem.</li><li>Combat Art (including AA granted arts) review and revamp. Due to our seriously low-end bottom damage on our CA's, crit bonus doesn't affect us as much as it does other classes. T9 abilities having a minimum damage less the 400 is just asinine.</li><li>Stance benefits: clear benefit to using defensive stance for the strikethrough immunity. Offensive and combo stances have very low return on investment. Survivability decreases with very little actual gain in dps. There needs to be just as compelling of a reason to be in offensive stance for offensive purposes as there is to be in defensive stance for defensive purposes, current stance benefits fall far short of this. <ul><li>Offensive stance ideas</li><li>4.0 or 5.0 ppm vs the 2.0 it is now, and it should be encounter wide and double the damage</li><li>+50% strikethrough</li><li>short term group buff proc (think berserk but different)</li><li>some discussion regarding tying manhandle's effect into what stance the brawler is in</li></ul></li></ul>Stuff on the horizon (or closer)<cite></cite>(Cross-posted to this thread)<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite>As a quick update, internally, we have changed Crane Twirl to grant a total of 20% AE Auto-Attack in addition to the proc it currently grants.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/quote.m?postId=5396566&start=15">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...96566&start=15 </a> Xelgad wrote:AE Auto-Attack and Flurry are indeed on the way for bows. We're also removing the 20% damage penalty for bows, and we're increasing the damage rating on all 81-90 bows (along with throwing weapons) by about 10%. The intent is to allow [rangers] to get full benefit from buffs and gear, not to make the class entirely focused on Auto-Attack.ANDThese changes are intended to balance the damage from dual wielding, two handers and bows. As part of that, off-hand weapons will no longer be restricted from Flurry and AE auto-attack, so that dual wielding will scale at the same rate as two handed weapon and bow damage.Bows will see the greatest benefit from these changes as they gave less auto-attack damage than both dual wield and two handed weaponry prior to this change.Following this change, they will give approximately the same Auto-Attack damage. Anyone who is Auto-Attacking with more than just a one-handed weapon will see their damage increase with this change, but those who use bows as their primary means of attack will see the greatest increase.

Aule

07-01-2009, 04:08 AM

Revised Jan.2011More in depth thoughts on aspects of certain combat arts, no notes means no concerns.DAMAGE RANGES (GENERAL)With the crit boost component becoming uncapped, the follow bruiser abilities having maximum damage that is 3x the minimum damage means that bruisers will experience a diminished return on one the most important stats of the expansion on 50% of their damage dealing combat arts:UppercutShoulder ChargeOne Hundred Hand PunchEye GougePummelSucker PunchSavage AssaultKnockout CombinationRoundhouseCOMBAT ARTS(52) Stone Deaf- no difference between apprentice and master(55) Close Mind(60) Shrug Off- no T7 or T8 version(70) Feign Death- no T8 or T9 version(81) Bruising- defensive and offensive stats are not upgraded by the respective TSO fighter tree lines that increase benefits. associated with defensive and offensive stances- proc increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack(81) Lightning Fists- increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack- unaffected by ability modifier- damage dealt is significantly sub-par(82) Pummel- hit bonus is only 25%, compared to the normal 40 or 50% of other combat arts, being that this is the ability increased by the fighter TSO line ability Swinging Strike the Bruiser receives a lower gain in this capacity than other fighters(82) Bodyguard(82) Slurred Insult- is a spell, not a combat art(82) Uppercut(83) Devastation Fist(83) Meteor Fist(83) Sucker Punch(84) One Hundred Hands(84) Roundhouse(85) Sonic Punch- limited usefulness due to minimum range and fact that you return to original position after hitting. Has some situational usefulness instancing if you combine with drag to pull the mob back with you, near useless in raids(85) Beatdown(85) Smoldering Fists- proc increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack(86) Abuse- is a spell, not a combat art.(86) Brutality- description states that it increases auto attack damage, effect is to increase base damage of combat arts and base amount of taunts. This ability had a dps mod component on it before it was made into a raidwide ability, the group dps mod portion should be restored to it.(86) Manhandle- increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack(87) Blaze Kick- dot portion increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack(87) Intimidate- spell, not combat art- minimal usefulness, pretty much limited to shiny farming- spell upgraded for no apparent reason, the t8 one affects up to level 106, this version just costs more power and duration was not extended. You're better off in most cases using the level 66 Intimidate IV as the pow cost is lower and it affects up to 95th level(87) Merciless Stomp(88) Bruising Spirit- Recast is fairly long and starts from when spell ends rather than when spell is cast.(88) Knockout combination- increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, needs to be reclassified as a melee attack instead of a spell attack(88) Rock Skin- stun component was removed and replaced with a root/daze component, result is this combat art is nearly useless now rather than completely useless(89) Bob and Weave(89) Indomitable Will(89) Shoulder Charge(90) Divide and Conquer- aggro lock abilities useless in TSO nearly useless in SF raiding due to supposed trivialization of encounter mechanics.(90) Eye Gouge(90) Savage AssaultRev notes: Nothing has changed in this section since SF launch, update merely brings revision date in line with other posts.

Aule

07-01-2009, 04:08 AM

Revised Jan.2011AA'sKOS / BRAWLER treeSTR / ChiPressure Point- Hit bonus is only 25%AGI / AltruismAmbidexterity - could give a slightly better return than it does currentlySTA / Mantis LeapMantis Star- range is too short at only 25m, using a shuriken for ammo (+5m) or just about any ranged weapon obtainable in SF results greater range for ranged auto attack than this combat art- damage is too low- combination of two issues means most brawlers won't bother ever casting this art, or will do so only rarelyMantis Bolt- increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, should be reclassified as a melee attack instead of as a spell attackWIS / Crane FlockCrane Twirl- increases base damage via base spell damage, rather than base combat art damage, should be reclassified as a melee attack instead of as a spell attackCrane Flock- description on AA and description on ability are in conflict- AA: ... causes all auto-attacks made to attack up to 4 enemies surrounding the Crane Sensei- abil: ... has a 100.0% chance of having their primary weapon's autoattack affect multiple targets they are facing, who are within melee range- being that brawlers do not have an always on trample attack like other fighters do, having it affect a 360 degree range instead of a frontal cone would fit the theme of the class and would at least make it so that something with a 2 minute reuse doesn't fail to hit multiple opponents simply because they aren't lined up quite perfectlyINT / Eagle ShriekEagle's Spin- Hit bonus only 25%Eagle ShriekKOS / BRAWLER special linesEagle's Patience- Tying this ability to Eagle Shriek is a mistake. This should be unlinked from Eagle's Shriek and it should be able to be cast regardless of what health level the brawler is at. If you want to be able to tie it in with Eagle's Shriek, then have Eagle's Shriek going active automatically trigger this ability, or in some other way supplement itEOF / BRUISER lineCONDITIONINGEnhance: Rock Skin- the combat art is useless, enhancing useless still results in it being useless.SACRIFICE0c0;">- thank youATTENTIONAlternate: Shiftiness- ability must be canceled and recast upon dying. The buff stays up, but control hate reverts to positional gain unless the buff is recast after dying. (see next note)Control Hate- description indicates that the position gain/drop is tied to whether you're in offensive stance or not. In reality, it's tied to whether you have Manhandle active or Alternate: Shiftiness. Additionally, control hate reverts to position gain instead of position loss upon death and alternate: shiftiness must be canceled and recast to get it back to position loss.KNOCKOUTSDrag - aggro-locking abilities useless in TSO SF raiding due to supposed trivialization of encounter mechanics, not EOF / BRUISER Special LinesDebilitating Gouge- benefit is marginal to worthless, nobody will ever spend points on thisDefensive Aggression- benefit is about the worthiness of one legendary adornmentReversal- benefit is okay, would be better if riposte damage wasn't so heavily penalizedAggressive Beatdown- benefit should be a de-threat component when Alternate: Shiftiness is activeWild Beating- needs to be reclassified as a combat art rather than a spell attack so that it is affected by Brutality and trigger's Knockout CombinationTSO lineFIGHTERConsummate Defender- does not apply to the defensive portion of the combo stanceOffensive Prowess- does not apply to the offensive portion of the combo stance(both of above)(benefit is not significant enough to draw points towards consideration of being used here)Riposte Mastery- more of a general fighter complaint- ripostes deal strictly the weapon damage range listed, no fighter table multiplication and no double attacks- small percentage increase to small is still smallSneering Assault- rescue like ability that's hit rate is too lowBRAWLER lineTranquil Forewarning- claims that all of the brawler's taunt abilities will add additional hate, for bruisers there are 9 methods of adding hate and only 3 of them are affected by this ability. These 3 abilities are spells, so probably all that needs fixing is changing the AA to apply to abilities that affect threat, rather than spells that affect threat.AffectedAbuseSlurred InsultDivide and ConquerNot AffectedManhandleMantis LeapAlternate: ShiftinessSneering AssaultFist of GorynnAggressive Beatdown(Worth noting is all but Fist of Gorynn and Aggressive Beatdown are affected by both potency and Brutality)Thunderous Strike- increasing a small number (damage values) by a small percent equals a slightly less small numberBRUISER lineCalming Demeanor- 5% hate reduction to non-fighters in raid for 5 AA's is a poor investment because most of those with hate issues are in a group with a troub and may also have a peaceful link on them, putting them at -50% cap anyways.Hardened Skin- Just change it to give 1% mitigation per level instead of a vague statement of a bonus

Lven

07-02-2009, 12:33 AM

an excellent post <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Aule

07-08-2009, 03:18 AM

Too bad the class forums aren't trafficked enough to actually have any good discussion <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Last reply on this thread was 07/01 and it's only the 7th post after the stickies wear off.

Aule

07-26-2009, 07:25 AM

Updated the first post to include the CA Damage section.

Illine

07-27-2009, 08:53 AM

an idea for sonic fistfirst cancel the min rangeor secound, when using this CA the mobs is also immune against social aggro. Like the hit is so fast, other mobs cannot see the bruiser.For me at first this CA was nice to pull mobs from far away, but it's not better than a bow since you aggro everything near the mob you hit. But with a buff that makes you "invisible" to mob dor a sort period and the mobs immune to social aggro, then it would be a nice CA to pull mobs from far away.Right now, the sonic fist use is too limited.You cannot use it when tanking or dpsing. because going away to cast it and then reappearing far away from the mob makes you loose a lot of dps. And you usually don't have time to use it when the mob arrive coz he's too fast to reach you. Usually I cast it and at the end it says "too close".But with a change it could be a nice pulling CA.and for staggring blow ... since we are supposed to be the AE brawler. Why not make staggering blow an AE attack?? Right now we have to little AEs to help us fighting and keeping aggro on many mobs at the same time without the good group makeup. Staggering blow being an AE rescue + damage could help a lot.

Aull

07-27-2009, 09:58 AM

I would personally like to see rock skin removed and bruisers given a blue aoe to replace it.Lightning fists reworked to actually be a useful combat art and it should differ from the monk version as well.Fix it to where mobs cannot strike through when temps are in useage.Make d&c and drag work.Fix engulf on offensive stance to be as melee and not spell damage and do the same for manhandle.Make manhandle an encounter proc.

Aule

07-31-2009, 06:01 PM

Added notes from prior posts as well as adding these sections to the General entry: SPELL CRIT / BASE DAMAGE LACK OF COMMUNICATION

Mosha D'Khan

08-02-2009, 01:44 PM

this is based on the gear but,the T2 shard bruiser/monk gear is 8 base damage and does not upgrade when T3.the wilderness gear only increases from 9 to 8 also. kinda weak if you ask me

etch666

08-03-2009, 12:14 PM

Another extremely annoying feature of this class is 100 hand punch is almost 100% guaranteed to proc an enemies damage shield effect thereby reducing crit -200% or disarming yourself, or any number of horrible effects.Starting to leave this, one of our most damaging abilities, out of my CA rotation on nameds.(PS. PLEASE GIVE ME A HIT RATE AGAINST ORANGE CON MOBS.)

Aule

08-21-2009, 07:13 PM

Updated for prior note from etch666. Not actively discussing gear issues in this thread, though Mosha's points are valid.

Sprin

09-25-2009, 08:09 PM

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would personally like to see rock skin removed and bruisers given a blue aoe to replace it.Very good idea, most worthless spell in the history of EQ2 TBH... as it stands... at the very lease a blue Taunt insteadLightning fists reworked to actually be a useful combat art and it should differ from the monk version as well.this spell is laughable... 5 procs for measley damage. patheticFix it to where mobs cannot strike through when temps are in useage.Make d&c and drag work.I dont know what you mean, they work great.. drag is 4 second force target and D&C is full encounter force target + taunt (with shadow tree end line point) like 2 extra rescues TBH... great spells in the arsenal to keep aggro on youFix engulf on offensive stance to be as melee and not spell damage and do the same for manhandle.Make manhandle an encounter proc.There are a number of things that need to be done with this spell, its worthless TBH compared to other classes reactive based aggro spells coupled with the need to be in Def stance all the time to survive the hard hits of TSO mobs... which lowers crushing abilities which lowers reactive triggers of aggro... so in defensive stance (which you would think would gain you more aggro) its the opposite... The lore is there for brawlers to get a better reactive taunt then by doing damage.... for monks its situational awareness, "one with the mind and body and surroundings' type of lore, where your knowledge of the surrounding attackers gives you insight into what they are going to do and allows you to react faster to their attacks and defend your allies because of it.... and with Bruiser, as a street fighter, Street smarts, to be able to predict your enemies actions based on your training and hard core experience fighitng in the "streets"... it allows you to gain the upper hand against those who arent "street smart" and defend your allies using this experience against your foes.AOE or encounter reactives based on incoming attacks should be the specialty of the brawlers based on the above lore, they are street smart and quick minded and should be able to take on many foes because of this.. Think of how fast a UFC fighter has to respond to his enemies attacks to counter that and place them into submission... or a "Kung fu" master, who has insanely high reaction times to attacking enemies and can adjust their fighting based on that...Lore with bruisers is junk, as well as with monks... damage based reactive taunts are misused on this class... it should be incoming hostile attacks, regardless of weather it lands or not, regardless of damage recieved, should be a percentage based "reactive" from incoming hostile actions, regardless of that action or if it does damage... IMHO</blockquote>

Aule

09-26-2009, 04:31 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make d&c and drag work.I dont know what you mean, they work great.. drag is 4 second force target and D&C is full encounter force target + taunt (with shadow tree end line point) like 2 extra rescues TBH... great spells in the arsenal to keep aggro on you</blockquote></blockquote>Currently these don't work on any x4 TSO raid mobs. The so-called reasoning behind this is that aggrolock abilities are game breakingly overpowered and trivialize scripts.They're absolutely great in instancing, and worthless on raids. Shadowknight's grave sacrament, though, might as well be an aggro-lock except it's done through applying a ridiculous amount of threat repeatedly during the duration, so it works everywhere. Seems like two different methods of achieving the same result, except that for us it's not allowed to be used on x4 encounters.

Aule

09-30-2009, 09:29 PM

Edited to update to as of 10/01, no actual changes on live or test.

Aule

10-20-2009, 01:36 PM

Updated section 1: communication to reflect 10/19 statement by Aerilak from a different thread.

tylermadeit

10-24-2009, 12:24 AM

<cite></cite><blockquote><cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would personally like to see rock skin removed and bruisers given a blue aoe to replace it.Very good idea, most worthless spell in the history of EQ2 TBH... as it stands... at the very lease a blue Taunt instead</blockquote></blockquote>I second that notion.

tylermadeit

10-27-2009, 01:00 AM

Inpenetrable Will does not work in pvp.

Aule

10-28-2009, 03:28 AM

<cite>tylermadeit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Inpenetrable Will does not work in pvp.</blockquote>What happens? Nothing? I don't pvp.

Aule

11-03-2009, 02:33 PM

Revised for as of 11/01, updated some minor discrepancies, added alternate: shiftiness and control hate issues, updated impenetrable will to note that brawler adjustments noted for expansion will address the issue.

Aule

12-02-2009, 09:18 PM

Edited to update to as of 12/01, no actual changes. Hopefully the information Aeralik stated will still happen. Beta goes in this month so please go check stuff out.

MXGinge

12-22-2009, 05:21 PM

thought for the wis line to make it a bit better and make us a bit unique compared to other fighters.keep the proc the way it is as far as 360 and unlimited targets. slightly increase to damage, make it off of melee mods instead of spell mods, make the proc rate 20%and instead of the endline ability being a short duration buff take away the 100% aoe attack and 100% DA and make it a passive X% aoe auto attack, the % would need to be adjusted to not be over powered but when i think of monk/bruiser i think of some 1337 ninja surrounded by bad guys and him owning all of them with some sweet kung fu. im thinking making it passive 20-40% melee auto attack. that combined with a slightly better proc than the current one would help with aoe encounters.thoughts???

Aull

12-22-2009, 06:46 PM

If crane flock became passive 40% aoe auto attack just up the damage of crane twirl slightly with melee mods (not spell) and leave the proc at 16%.

Aule

12-23-2009, 10:43 AM

I'm thinking that for now all we can really do is leave it up to those in beta to provide feedback on whatever's been changed on the beta boards. Once the nda is lifted it'll be worth going back and updating for what's been adjusted and what may still need adjusting.

Aule

02-12-2010, 06:45 PM

Still need to do some updates on some of the new abilities and some issues but ran out of time today.

Aule

02-15-2010, 05:07 AM

Updated for Beta for Sentinel's Fate. Currently the post shows the old issues and how they were addressed, if they were. I will leave it in this format for awhile and then streamline things down to just what the current issues are, probably reposting the current post into the thread for those that have a historical interest.

Quicksilver74

02-22-2010, 04:50 PM

My only issue with this thread is that it is too spread out. It's very comprehensive as you are basically covering every single ability we have, but I also feel it is unrealistic to expect every single issue to be fixed. For example, I've pretty much given up on lightning fists, as it is just one of those CAs that has always needed a fix, but always not been a large enough priority to really push for. I'd suggest somewhere near the top, to put top concerns, maybe top 10, top 5, or top 3. The easier it is to read, and the fewer things that we ask for at once, the better our chances of getting things fixed IMO. That said, here are the biggest issues from my perspective.<ol><li>Brawler's Tenacity - Needs a bigger duration. Right now rank 2 is worthless, as 2 deaths in 20 seconds is just silly to expect. Either make the buff until cancelled, or add additional time to the 2nd rank. I'd like to see rank 1 as a 3 minute duration 1 charge, and rank 2 as an Until Cancelled, 2 charge buff. </li><li>Eagle's Patience - Please make this ability useful. Having it tied to the INT line is terribly bad. Simply remove the requirement for Eagle Shriek to be up, and you have yourself an excellent double-attack prevention temp. </li><li>Target Locks - Divide and Conquer, and Drag, are both not working in raids. Divide and Conquer will not even lock any trash mob that I have seen. Drag is now reduced to a strictly Battlegrounds CA, which I find unnacceptable. Divide and Conquer does not lock ANYthing, and I'm sorry, but NO trash mob should EVER be immune to target locks. </li><li>Wild Beating - Currently this CA does not proc things like Knockout Combination and/or Lycanthrophy/Rampage. It'd be nice to have this ability able to proc the same procs that every other AoE can proc. </li><li>Strikethrough Immunity - I find it completely unnacceptable that we can be hit with mob combat Arts with 100% avoidance temps, if those combat arts are using a new mechanic that says they never miss. How is that different than strikethrough? Simply change those CA's to 99% chance of hitting, so Tsunami-like abilities will still keep the caster safe. </li></ol>

Quicksilver74

03-11-2010, 03:49 PM

Red Adorn - Bruiser Stances - Gives 3% riposte? What? On Beta it was higher, this is Completely awful. Awful to the 16th power. Make it 6% riposte to D stance, and 8 crit bonus to O stance like it was on beta please. there is simply no reason to cut this focus in half. All of the red adorns need improving really. Other classes get VERY cool red adornments and we only get like 3-4 class ones that are even slightly worthwhile. Rock-Skin = Complete waste.Every Adorn that improves a single combat art damage = Waste to have a red adornment only give 200 damage or so to a single combat art. If it's going to boost a CA, then it needs to be significant enough to compete with Focus:Shrug Off, or Focus: Bob and Weave, which are actually good. O-Stance proc increase = Terrible, since Defensive stance is now the stance of choice. -----------------Stances = good if it gets fixed.Bob and Weave = Good.Shrug Off = Good. Inner Focus = not bad.

Hina

03-12-2010, 09:45 PM

My Bruiser is not my main, however I do play her quite a bit and often raid on her, so I also wanted to chime in about concerns over the change to the red slot adornment Focus: Bruiser stances. Until yesterday it read:6% riposte to D-stance8% crit bonus to O-stance5% crit bonus 3% riposte to Mid-Stance.As of yesterday all those bonuses are cut in half, making one of the best, if not the best, bruiser red adornment nearly useless. There was no note in the patch notes, so I am hoping this is a bug. if it is a bug, please fix it, and if it is not, I sincerly hope that this decision will be reconsidered.

Quicksilver74

03-20-2010, 07:37 PM

The red adornment is fixed. Now Fix Brawler's Tenacity! Until Cancelled go go go!

Aule

03-22-2010, 04:03 AM

Revised primary, secondary and tertiary posts to streamline the content and to be updated to what's current now. Primary - just the important stuff that needs fixing Secondary - review of profession abilities Tertiary - review of AA's

Mosha D'Khan

03-29-2010, 05:13 PM

need bruiser myth fixed too. i have the +5 min deflection on my myth still and this needs to be fixed. atm there is no reason for me to use another weapon because the 2 i have found (1 with 20.4 block and other with +15 block) are not enough of an increase to matter. this should be put on the spell. i saw somewhere they said they were doing it but that was atleast over a week ago and nothing still.also would love to have the death prevent made to until canceled. and make the recast 10 mins if you have to. jsut not worth getting because it only last 20 sec which is near impossible to have go off if you have a healer. because you use it healer get you back up and it goes to waste.

Aule

03-29-2010, 07:00 PM

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=474754" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=474754</a> Was already fixed, just hasn't gone live yet. That was 4 days ago, not at least over a week.

Aule

03-30-2010, 01:20 PM

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=475326�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...475326�</a> Thread discussion for brawler's tenacity change in duration to 45s.

Aule

06-07-2010, 03:53 PM

Updated for last couple months, nothing really has changed though. All I really did was update the primary post with the general consensus from this board and the-board-that-shall-not-be-named as to what the primary issues are now.

Gungo

06-07-2010, 07:20 PM

I would like to add to smoldering fists. offensive damage increase from this stance is marginal at best. I would like to see the base proc rate doubled to 4.0ppm and the target be encounter wide.

Aule

06-07-2010, 08:41 PM

Updated to add Gungo's note.

Aull

06-07-2010, 09:35 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to add to smoldering fists. offensive damage increase from this stance is marginal at best. I would like to see the base proc rate doubled to 4.0ppm and the target be encounter wide. </blockquote>I totally agree. Back when my sk had his epic the seething hatred proc had a rating of 1.8 ppm and it would have more success at procing per fight than what my bruisers engulf could ever imagine. Even in todays game engulf's proc chance at 2.0 ppm is pitiful. I think something at the core mechanics of engulf is off set and really isn't procing as intended.I know there are other issues but I would like for engulf to be more reliable when bruisers are in there offensive stance.

Gungo

06-10-2010, 05:52 PM

I truly enjoy the fact our defensive stance is meaningful for defensive tanking. It is the only way to receive a large portion of our uncontested avoidance.It is the only way to be immune to strikethrough.And it provides a significant amount of our mitigation.Our mid stance imho is fine for what it is at the moment. A soloing/heroic stance.Our offensive stance does not provide the Dps gain nor the difference offensively needed. It does highlight however the defenisve benefits of our tanking stance. Honestly I am not sure just a 4.0ppm and encounter proc would be enough to differentiate this stance. It likely would require a higher base proc rate of 6.0-8.0 ppm to see any difference or in addition to the increase proc rate/encounter proc an AA that would double the damage as well as fixing this effect to make it melee instead of spell. In order for our Melee damage modifer to increase it.I would like to see dps bruisers in offensive and when tanking in defensive(w/o lack of agro). This would require all our taunt effects to be fixed to be increased by taunt increasers.If they did this then ideally bruisers should be the mold for how all fighters should be balanced. A choice between offensive and defensive.

Omgidomms

06-10-2010, 06:46 PM

Right now every single bruiser runs with the def-stance.. Only using off-stance when i'm testing on the dummy or as dps in a raid where there is little aoe's etc..

Aull

06-10-2010, 10:14 PM

I have been thinking that manhandle should basically be incorporated into all three of our stances.Offensive stance would add what ever damage portion of manhandle to what engulf currently has without the threat portion and the proc rating up'ed to 4.9 ppm.Mid stance would incorporate manhandle as it currently is....xxx-yyy damage and aaa-bbb threat with 4.9 ppm.Defensive stance would be an increased raw threat portion without any damage portion with 4.9 ppm.Yes it should not be configured as a spell but as melee damage.

Gungo

06-10-2010, 11:18 PM

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been thinking that manhandle should basically be incorporated into all three of our stances.Offensive stance would add what ever damage portion of manhandle to what engulf currently has without the threat portion and the proc rating up'ed to 4.9 ppm.Mid stance would incorporate manhandle as it currently is....xxx-yyy damage and aaa-bbb threat with 4.9 ppm.Defensive stance would be an increased raw threat portion without any damage portion with 4.9 ppm.Yes it should not be configured as a spell but as melee damage.</blockquote>I agreeThe fighter changes aerilik was putting in had this idea. And I thought it should of been implemented for bruisers and monks. While I am sure not every monk would like this idea.I think Haste should be stripped of the mid and off stance for monks. They are overcapped at higher levels and they will still have everburning flame/raidwide. This would also make thier offensive stance a better benefit for them in raids. Instead bruisers should have a 5.0ppm encounter proc and monks a 10ppm single target proc on offensive stance.Bruisers should have a 5.0ppm encounter hate proc and monks a 10ppm single target hate proc on defensive stance.Mid stance for both classes should keep the proc rate but divide the amounts in half for damage/hate gain.I could honestly care less which class gets the aoe proc and which class gets the single target proc as long as the damage/hate is balanced. That could mean making the encounter proc not proc off of aoe auto atks or simply doubling the single targets procs damage and proc rate. Honestly as a bruiser i wouldnt mind the 10ppm proc with double the damage of the encounter proc. This would make the single target proc significant increase in damage over the encounter proc (4x) except in instances of multiple procs during aoe auto atk.

Aull

07-18-2010, 10:12 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agreeThe fighter changes aerilik was putting in had this idea. And I thought it should of been implemented for bruisers and monks. While I am sure not every monk would like this idea.I think Haste should be stripped of the mid and off stance for monks. They are overcapped at higher levels and they will still have everburning flame/raidwide. This would also make thier offensive stance a better benefit for them in raids. Instead bruisers should have a 5.0ppm encounter proc and monks a 10ppm single target proc on offensive stance.Bruisers should have a 5.0ppm encounter hate proc and monks a 10ppm single target hate proc on defensive stance.Mid stance for both classes should keep the proc rate but divide the amounts in half for damage/hate gain.I could honestly care less which class gets the aoe proc and which class gets the single target proc as long as the damage/hate is balanced. That could mean making the encounter proc not proc off of aoe auto atks or simply doubling the single targets procs damage and proc rate. Honestly as a bruiser i wouldnt mind the 10ppm proc with double the damage of the encounter proc. This would make the single target proc significant increase in damage over the encounter proc (4x) except in instances of multiple procs during aoe auto atk.</blockquote>Well since bruisers are configured currently at 5.0ppm on manhandle I would think it would be only fair to keep that rating. Monks have the 10 ppm so again only fair to keep that rating.I think that bruisers are where they need to be as far as defensive abilities are concerned. This and last years expansion addressed this more than anything bruisers got offensively. While bruisers did receive a tsunami spin off myth clicky and impenatrable will. These abilities are nice even though there duration is half of what my monks are. Well at least tsunami is twice the duration and roughly refreshes 50% quick than my bruisers defensive abilities.So my next recommendation for next expac would be giving bruisers some type of unique offensive ability. Berserkers have had berserk which is a dps mod/haste ability that is a proc but for the most part is up 80% of all fights. Monks can get incredible haste three ways. Offensive stance, everburning, and their group/raid buff and it is constant haste as long as they are active.For the bruiser I would like to see something and that would be in the form of an auto attack multiplier. Change lightning fist to an until canceled self only auto attack multiplier buff. While using this the bruiser's auto attacks would be more powerful but it would cost the bruiser defensively. This ability can only be used when the bruiser is in offensive stance.This auto attack multiplier would also replace our 16% to taunts/detaunts on brutality increasing all our group/raid members dps as well. Similar to how monk self and group haste stack this to would do the same for the bruiser. Monks faster attack while bruisers on the opposite end are slower but would hit harder.Any thoughts please.

Quicksilver74

07-22-2010, 12:23 AM

I still wish bruisers had a group buff or 2. I would like for raids to be less reliant on having so many support classes. I 'd like bruisers to buff something unique. <ul><li> Increase double-attack damage of the group.</li><li> 5% Flurry to group.</li><li> +10% AE attack to group</li></ul><ul><li>2.0PPM 10 second buff that allows everything to hit for max damage for the group. </li></ul><div></div><div>Also change smoldering fists's Engulf to be a minimum of 4 times a minute and be an encounter proc.</div><div>Give Savage Assault a max of 8 hits instead of 4!</div>

Aull

07-22-2010, 01:02 AM

Interesting suggestions Crabb. I again really feel that if any changes are to come to the bruiser class it should be focused to our offensive abilites and some very minor group utilty. Defensively bruisers are where they need to be but I do feel that the offensive side has not really received any significant boosts the last two expacs which is why many bruisers now roll defensive stance most of the time.I have been doing some ingame feedbacks on engulf's proc being so lack luster. Not sure that the feedback are ever given any attention but I am definately doing it.Another thought was changing one hundred hands to have an increasing damage range. Instead of eight hits being 190-596 maybe having it as 1st 190-596, 2nd 200-610, 3rd 210-630, 4th 220-660, 5th 230-700, 6th 240-750, 7th 250-800, and 8th 260-860. Just something different since bruisers do not get any aa's that give a quicker reuse on this ability. Also the ability to have greater chance of all eight hits executing.Thoughts??

Aule

07-22-2010, 02:09 AM

Make knockout combination and close mind group wide. Stone deaf too for good measure. Comparable equivalents for monks. Then change offensive stance proc to be 4x damage and grant 6 or 8s group buff of something awesome like 8% flurry. Oh and then give us a group buff that does a little bit of everything like the conjy one that is 3% to lotsa stuff.

Aull

07-22-2010, 05:15 PM

I feel that bruisers were given better defense and utility this expac so for the this next expac I hope it is more offensively focused. Just remember even though we can tank we need to bruise better. =)Sure group wide knock out would be nice and that could be a possible consideration further in the future. Brutal inspiration is a great utility now so i don't forsee any group wide version of that yet.

Quicksilver74

08-03-2010, 07:52 PM

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote> Just remember even though we can tank we need to bruise better. =)</blockquote>Fact

Aull

08-04-2010, 08:29 PM

Another combat art I would like to see upgraded is our blaze kick. The dot portion duration should be removed and what ever damage that comes from that dot should be added to the high end damage for the ability.We don't need dots....those are for sk's.

Xelgad

08-23-2010, 07:01 PM

Cross-posting from the Monk forums:As a quick update, internally, we have changed Crane Twirl to grant a total of 20% AE Auto-Attack in addition to the proc it currently grants.

Corydonn

08-23-2010, 07:30 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cross-posting from the Monk forums:As a quick update, internally, we have changed Crane Twirl to grant a total of 20% AE Auto-Attack in addition to the proc it currently grants.</blockquote>Sounds awesome Xelgad, combined with the dual wield changes this should put give us quite an edge on crusaders. Thanks!

Aule

08-23-2010, 08:35 PM

Oh good deal!

Stubbswick

08-24-2010, 12:55 PM

Does "changed internally" mean it won't be live until the next GU? Just curious.

Mosha D'Khan

08-24-2010, 02:43 PM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cross-posting from the Monk forums:As a quick update, internally, we have changed Crane Twirl to grant a total of 20% AE Auto-Attack in addition to the proc it currently grants.</blockquote>Sounds awesome Xelgad, combined with the dual wield changes this should put give us quite an edge on crusaders. Thanks!</blockquote>what is the dual wielding change? just wondering have not seen anything on it

Aule

08-24-2010, 03:26 PM

Revised for last month and a half and added notes pending changes Xelgad has mentioned in various places.

Chanson

08-24-2010, 04:04 PM

<cite>Mosha DKhan wrote:</cite><blockquote>what is the dual wielding change? just wondering have not seen anything on it</blockquote><div>Originally Posted by Xelgad</div> <div>These changes are intended to balance the damage from dual wielding, two handers and bows. As part of that, off-hand weapons will no longer be restricted from Flurry and AE auto-attack, so that dual wielding will scale at the same rate as two handed weapon and bow damage. Bows will see the greatest benefit from these changes as they gave less auto-attack damage than both dual wield and two handed weaponry prior to this change. Following this change, they will give approximately the same Auto-Attack damage. Anyone who is Auto-Attacking with more than just a one-handed weapon will see their damage increase with this change, but those who use bows as their primary means of attack will see the greatest increase.</div>

Originaal

10-26-2010, 11:43 AM

How about some hate attached to Mantis Star?even hate applied through AA's would work. Yes, this is an issue as I see it

Aule

10-26-2010, 03:43 PM

<cite>Originaal wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about some hate attached to Mantis Star?even hate applied through AA's would work. Yes, this is an issue as I see it</blockquote>The debuff portion of mantis star already creates additional hate. What situation are you needing additional hate from it? If during pull, you'll have already hit once with your ranged auto attack before mantis star even lights up, and can probably hit with the auto attack again as the mob gets to where you're pulling it.Is it maintaining hate position on an everybody-needs-to-joust aoe like the Xilaxis side of Arkatanthis fight? There's a few ways of dealing with that already. I personally chose to spec for mantis leap due to how significantly useful it is on this fight and on RnR.What are the circumstances that are resulting in this being an issue as you see it? Maybe we can address the underlying issue instead.

Aule

02-21-2011, 07:35 PM

Thread is now obsolete and should be un-stickied. I am not purchasing the expansion nor updating this thread going forward.