My halfling monk in 3D art

[Jathal]

<p>You 3D artists have some very cool work. Here's my first renders of Jathimas.Click on them for full size<a href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg" border="0" height="600" /></a> <a href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo03sig.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo03sig.jpg" border="0" height="600" /></a></p><p>Hey, don't you wish all races could have tats? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Tuatha]

<p>Skinny halflings are just so...wrong!</p><p>I hope you'll forgive me for this little edit, I fed your starving monk some jumjum pie (click for full size):</p><p><a href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg"><img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg" width="300" height="375" /></a><a href="http://cheesepirate.com/tmp/halfling_monk_edit.jpg"><img src="http://cheesepirate.com/tmp/halfling_monk_edit.jpg" width="300" height="375" /></a></p>

[Akyashaa]

<p>[Removed for Content] nice job with the feeding LOL</p><p>to the OP great job for your first render, definately on the right track, fantastic job on the posing and lighting!</p>

[Tuatha]

<p>I'm sorry, but to me there's nothing that really says "halfling" about your pictures, except a bit of foot hair.</p><p><img src="http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/eq2/images/thumb/f/f1/Race_halfling.jpg/180px-Race_halfling.jpg" /></p><p>The proportions are those of a human, not a halfling - halflings are supposed to be somewhat chubby with a bulging belly, their feet and hands large, their limbs a bit on the short side. The head should be larger than it would be on a human adult as well, more like what you would see on a human child. One of the many creepy things about Nathan Ironforge is that he's basically a scaled down human adult model, he does not look like a child at all because the proportions are wrong, and the same goes for your halfling monk.</p><p><img src="http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop2.jpg" width="746" height="814" /></p><p>A halfling would have proportions more like those of the 3-yearold in the picture above.</p><p>Another thing to think about is the sense of scale, try to put something in the background that tells you that your character is shorter than a human. A bit of wall and a pot with a bonsai tree doesn't really give us anything to compare the size of your character with, and so he just looks like an adult human male. Bonsai trees range in size from roughly 2.5 cm/1 inch (Keshi-tsubu) to well over 100-120 cm/47 inches or more (Omono and Bonju) so the tree doesn't really help.</p><p>If you take a look at <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=444487">Sigrdifa's art thread</a> in this forum there's an image of a gnome lying on a sofa which you can clearly tell is too big for her, making it easier for the viewer to accept that they're looking at a gnome and not a human. In the same thread on the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=16&topic_id=444487">next page</a> there are also a couple post or two about proportions and how to increase head size etc. in Daz (I assume that's what you're using as well) to make your images look more like the real thing.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> halflings are supposed to be somewhat chubby with a bulging belly, their feet and hands large, their limbs a bit on the short side. The head should be larger than it would be on a human adult as well, more like what you would see on a human child.</p></blockquote><p>I agree about the short arms and legs somewhat, though not really about the head ( a little larger but they are adult halflings not children). hands and feet might be somewhat oversized also, but they are another race not humans with a dwarfism.</p><p>chubby however is, regardless of race, a matter of eating and being lazy. most halflings are fat because they eat too much pie and like to sleep <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> one who trains hard would be fit. what they SHOULD be is stocky in build not slight, and that unfortunately for the poser-renderer-artist isnt really viable to do with someone elses model unless its built in.</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>..what they SHOULD be is stocky in build not slight, and that unfortunately for the poser-renderer-artist isnt really viable to do with someone elses model unless its built in.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, you can. Select the body part and start with the morphs.  I did this when I was building gnomes from V4.2.  I adjusted the length of limb components, the overall size of head, hands and feet, and so forth to match as closely as possible <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/WoodieRe-Do.jpg" target="_blank">the EQ2 gnome body</a>.</p><p>I am positive <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/Gullveig.jpg" target="_blank">my gnome provisioner</a> could fatten up the hawt little halfling monk, though.</p>

[Akyashaa]

<p>I do agree with what you guys said about proportions, they aren't correct by a halfling standard. But not to start an arguement or anything, it's his art and his character if he feels like he wants to portrait his character this way, then let him <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Tuatha]

<p><cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree about the short arms and legs somewhat, though not really about the head ( a little larger but they are adult halflings not children). hands and feet might be somewhat oversized also, but they are another race not humans with a dwarfism.</p><p>chubby however is, regardless of race, a matter of eating and being lazy. most halflings are fat because they eat too much pie and like to sleep <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> one who trains hard would be fit. what they SHOULD be is stocky in build not slight, and that unfortunately for the poser-renderer-artist isnt really viable to do with someone elses model unless its built in.</p></blockquote><p>Take a good look at the ingame screenshot in my post again, the head is clearly much larger than you'd see on a human adult, the hands and feet are bigger and the legs shorter.</p><p>And sorry, but all halflings in this game are fat, it's one of their defining features.</p><p><cite>Akyashaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do agree with what you guys said about proportions, they aren't correct by a halfling standard. But not to start an arguement or anything, it's his art and his character if he feels like he wants to portrait his character this way, then let him <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I didn't realize it was forbidden to give feedback in this forum! Are you trying to say that just because it is someone else's art or character, I shouldn't post any feedback when people do dark elves with pink skin or halflings with human proportions? Sorry, but in my world feedback is a good thing that helps you learn and get better at what you do - if you can't handle it or don't want it then don't post your work to the public, tbh.</p>

[Paladin776]

<p>I don't think that Akyasha was trying to stifle good feedback and critique, but point out that, due to the direction the conversation was taking, she was merely pointing out that we have a number of opinions on how things should look, and, to me, that is the entire spirit of art:  Our vision of what we're trying to express.  With the images above, while the monk may be a halfling, it was rather apparent to me that he's an unusual halfling in that he's tried to form his body into a fighting machine, which a halfling's propensity for the good things in life would take away from. (For which the older halfling's would probably think he's cracked for being that way, I'm sure. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>When it comes to critiquing here in the forums, the rule I generally follow (and I can surmise that most others do so as well) is that I will publically post the positive aspects that I see in an image, and if it doesn't take up too much room, anything I see that could be improved will get in there as well.  But, if it's going to entail a major rework of the image or there are a number of things I see, I'll take it private, usually starting off with a bit of an apology first.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  As for myself, my stuff can be easily found on DeviantArt ( <a href="http://knight776.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://knight776.deviantart.com</a> )  ...Feel free to look around and critique the heck out of things.  One thing 20+ years of public safety work has given me is thick skin.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  On the OP's images, though, it's pretty plain that he's a new artist (not from the quality of the images, but from what he said), and new artist's egos tend to be a bit fragile.  With the lesser experienced folks, it's usually better the ease them into the process of critiquing before cutting the cord and exposing them to how cruel it can actually be.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  (Most art sites I visit use a system that a person can designate what level of critique they want on an image, from "go really easy on me" all the way up to "swing that critique hammer a little harder, baby!"  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>That being said, there is one line I have never and will never cross, and that is doing any sort of manipulation or editing of someone else's work.  That's like taking someone else's car and getting it painted a completely different color.  The only time I will do something like that is only after I have received the artist's permission first.  And then I will keep it between the artist and myself.  (To date, this has never happened, as I'm still learning myself....and because my Photoshop/PSP/[Removed for Content] skills are the major pits.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )  In fact, there is only <a href="http://rainfeatherpearl.deviantart.com" target="_blank">one person</a> that can get away with that on one of my images, and that's because without her help, I'd have given up on art months ago.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, you can. Select the body part and start with the morphs.  I did this when I was building gnomes from V4.2.  I adjusted the length of limb components, the overall size of head, hands and feet, and so forth to match as closely as possible <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/WoodieRe-Do.jpg" target="_blank">the EQ2 gnome body</a>.</p></blockquote><p>Ah interesting thanks, I didnt realise they had gone down that road.</p>

[Akyashaa]

<p><span ><p>Maybe I need to put into my signature that I am German, so some of the stuff that I post doesn't come across the wrong way, and immediatly have people jump down my throat for leaving my opinion. /ponders</p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">My answer to this:</span></p><p><cite>Akyashaa wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do agree with what you guys said about proportions, they aren't correct by a halfling standard. But not to start an arguement or anything, it's his art and his character if he feels like he wants to portrait his character this way, then let him <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I didn't realize it was forbidden to give feedback in this forum! Are you trying to say that just because it is someone else's art or character, I shouldn't post any feedback when people do dark elves with pink skin or halflings with human proportions? Sorry, but in my world feedback is a good thing that helps you learn and get better at what you do - if you can't handle it or don't want it then don't post your work to the public, tbh.</p></span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff;">He said exactly what my intentions were even though I might not have said it properly, and i never said feedback is a bad thing, i have my artwork public and I value good feedback, which I know helps me inprove to become a better artist yet, so please read:</span></p><p><cite>Dylara@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think that Akyasha was trying to stifle good feedback and critique, but point out that, due to the direction the conversation was taking, she was merely pointing out that we have a number of opinions on how things should look, and, to me, that is the entire spirit of art:  Our vision of what we're trying to express.  With the images above, while the monk may be a halfling, it was rather apparent to me that he's an unusual halfling in that he's tried to form his body into a fighting machine, which a halfling's propensity for the good things in life would take away from. (For which the older halfling's would probably think he's cracked for being that way, I'm sure. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>When it comes to critiquing here in the forums, the rule I generally follow (and I can surmise that most others do so as well) is that I will publically post the positive aspects that I see in an image, and if it doesn't take up too much room, anything I see that could be improved will get in there as well.  But, if it's going to entail a major rework of the image or there are a number of things I see, I'll take it private, usually starting off with a bit of an apology first.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  As for myself, my stuff can be easily found on DeviantArt ( <a href="http://knight776.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://knight776.deviantart.com</a> )  ...Feel free to look around and critique the heck out of things.  One thing 20+ years of public safety work has given me is thick skin.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  On the OP's images, though, it's pretty plain that he's a new artist (not from the quality of the images, but from what he said), and new artist's egos tend to be a bit fragile.  With the lesser experienced folks, it's usually better the ease them into the process of critiquing before cutting the cord and exposing them to how cruel it can actually be.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  (Most art sites I visit use a system that a person can designate what level of critique they want on an image, from "go really easy on me" all the way up to "swing that critique hammer a little harder, baby!"  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>That being said, there is one line I have never and will never cross, and that is doing any sort of manipulation or editing of someone else's work.  That's like taking someone else's car and getting it painted a completely different color.  The only time I will do something like that is only after I have received the artist's permission first.  And then I will keep it between the artist and myself.  (To date, this has never happened, as I'm still learning myself....and because my Photoshop/PSP/[Removed for Content] skills are the major pits.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )  In fact, there is only <a href="http://rainfeatherpearl.deviantart.com" target="_blank">one person</a> that can get away with that on one of my images, and that's because without her help, I'd have given up on art months ago.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote>

[Tuatha]

<p><cite>Dylara@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think that Akyasha was trying to stifle good feedback and critique, but point out that, due to the direction the conversation was taking, she was merely pointing out that we have a number of opinions on how things should look, and, to me, that is the entire spirit of art:  Our vision of what we're trying to express.  With the images above, while the monk may be a halfling, it was rather apparent to me that he's an unusual halfling in that he's tried to form his body into a fighting machine, which a halfling's propensity for the good things in life would take away from. (For which the older halfling's would probably think he's cracked for being that way, I'm sure. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>When it comes to critiquing here in the forums, the rule I generally follow (and I can surmise that most others do so as well) is that I will publically post the positive aspects that I see in an image, and if it doesn't take up too much room, anything I see that could be improved will get in there as well.  But, if it's going to entail a major rework of the image or there are a number of things I see, I'll take it private, usually starting off with a bit of an apology first.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  As for myself, my stuff can be easily found on DeviantArt ( <a href="http://knight776.deviantart.com" target="_blank">http://knight776.deviantart.com</a> )  ...Feel free to look around and critique the heck out of things.  One thing 20+ years of public safety work has given me is thick skin.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  On the OP's images, though, it's pretty plain that he's a new artist (not from the quality of the images, but from what he said), and new artist's egos tend to be a bit fragile.  With the lesser experienced folks, it's usually better the ease them into the process of critiquing before cutting the cord and exposing them to how cruel it can actually be.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  (Most art sites I visit use a system that a person can designate what level of critique they want on an image, from "go really easy on me" all the way up to "swing that critique hammer a little harder, baby!"  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )</p><p>That being said, there is one line I have never and will never cross, and that is doing any sort of manipulation or editing of someone else's work.  That's like taking someone else's car and getting it painted a completely different color.  The only time I will do something like that is only after I have received the artist's permission first.  And then I will keep it between the artist and myself.  (To date, this has never happened, as I'm still learning myself....and because my Photoshop/PSP/[Removed for Content] skills are the major pits.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> )  In fact, there is only <a href="http://rainfeatherpearl.deviantart.com" target="_blank">one person</a> that can get away with that on one of my images, and that's because without her help, I'd have given up on art months ago.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Regardless of how the original artist, or you, or anyone, would chose to view halflings there are actually certain things that separate a halfling from other races - there's nothing wrong with drawing a cow and calling it a unicorn either, but it's still a cow, and there's no point in getting upset if someone points out that a unicorn does not normally have 2 horns and udders.</p><p>I also find it very odd that you say you wouldn't manipulate or edit someone else's work, considering the majority of the pictures posted in this forum are pictures where the person posting has modified and manipulated models, clothes, backgrounds that they didn't actually make themselves.</p>

[Beckah]

<p><cite>Jathal wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You 3D artists have some very cool work. Here's my first renders of Jathimas.Click on them for full size<a href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo02sig.jpg" border="0" height="600" /></a> <a href="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo03sig.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/toastedhobbits/Misc/jathy-dojo03sig.jpg" border="0" height="600" /></a></p><p>Hey, don't you wish all races could have tats? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> Hehe you even got the hairy feet!</p><p>Sorry this has turned into a [Removed for Content] contest about art, your rendition of your halfling is great!</p>

[Tuatha]

<p><cite>Beckah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry this has turned into a [Removed for Content] contest about art</p></blockquote><p>Wow, just...wow.</p>

[Beckah]

<p><cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beckah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry this has turned into a [Removed for Content] contest about art</p></blockquote><p>Wow, just...wow.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but that's how it seemed to me.</p>

[Tuppen]

<p>BTW, the alternate models for halflings are quite thin.</p><p>So, I guess it depends on which models you use as to whether or not there are thin halflings in EQ2.</p>

[Dreyco]

<p>Like any monk, they are individuals that train their bodies and minds to be weapons.  I think the image is a perfect example of this.</p><p>Great work!</p>

[Akyashaa]

<p><cite>Beckah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Beckah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Sorry this has turned into a [Removed for Content] contest about art</p></blockquote><p>Wow, just...wow.</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but that's how it seemed to me.</p></blockquote><p>I'd ahve to agree with Beckah! I made my point though but if people wanna keep arguing their point then that's fine with me, I'm done.</p><p>Anyways again to the OP great job!</p>

[Tuatha]

<p><cite>Ethin@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>BTW, the alternate models for halflings are quite thin.</p><p>So, I guess it depends on which models you use as to whether or not there are thin halflings in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>Don't even get me started on the hideously anorectic Sony Online Gaming Asia (SOGA) models, whoever designed them clearly has no clue what a halfling is and represents, if anything what a halfling should be is dictated by the proper original models and the way halflings looked in EQ. Halflings are always described as pudgy, short, chubby.</p><p><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like any monk, they are individuals that train their bodies and minds to be weapons.  I think the image is a perfect example of this.</p></blockquote><p>Please explain to me how you can alter the proportions of your limbs and head through training? I'd like to see anyone who's able shrink their head, hands and feet like that and take on another race's proportions through training, and if that's how this halfling monk became a human I'm well impressed, I must say. The question is, why go to all that trouble training to be a human when he could have just rerolled?</p>

[Paladin776]

<p><cite>Tuatha@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I also find it very odd that you say you wouldn't manipulate or edit someone else's work, considering the majority of the pictures posted in this forum are pictures where the person posting has modified and manipulated models, clothes, backgrounds that they didn't actually make themselves.</p></blockquote><p>When it comes to the stuff that I do, I actually have the permission of the creators of the meshes, textures and backgrounds that I use in my 3D renders via the license that is included with each item I possess/have purchased.  What I was actually referring to is editing someone else's image, even if it's just a slight color change, and doing so without their permission.  It would be no different if I took one of your comic panels and changed the text to something I thought would be more appropriate to the situation or thought was more funny.  It's not my work, it's yours, and I have no right to do so without seeking your permission first.  Though I would not recommend it, try doing the same thing with an image done by one of the more establshed artists that frequent these forums (of which Akyasha is one) and see how well it would be received.  (It's something that's rather a hot button topic right at the moment in the digital art world.)</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p>I see a lot of people up in arms and I think it's because peopel don't get tone of voice and body language via the internet.</p><p>This is a bigger problem when you deal with someone only via the written word and their first language is not the same as yours, no matter what language you are writing in.</p><p>Everyone needs to settle the heck down. Referee blows the whistle! Penalty! Unnecessary bickering on someone else's art thread!</p><p>In fact, I would suggest that people consider taking their bickering posts and deleting them from this thread. The topic of how to offer feedback and where one draws lines and such are interesting and deserve discussion, but in their own thread.</p>

[Shareana]

<p>Guys and girls, this post is about art.  What is that saying?  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder?  To give ideas and praise is a wonderful thing, but to then turn the post into an arguement (so to speak) is not.  Remember that please <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Jathal]

<p>The "model" of my character is inspired by the Peter Jackson/Elijah Wood (even before he started bearing The Ring) version of halflings.</p><p>I realize people have strong feelings about chubby halflings. I too at first disliked the SOGA model.</p><p>I did modify my model <span style="text-decoration: underline;">away</span> from the ideal human form. For instance I added stockiness and pear-shape to him.</p><p>Thanks to those who support a different view. That being said, I am done with this thread.</p>

[Aerfen]

<p>I love your monk and think you did a great job!!  So sorry folks were not friendly with their comments.</p>