TC changing to be multiple targets - what about CH?

[Hecula]

<p>I have seen the Illusionist AA Time Compression mentioned as something that the devs are thinking of changing to be castable on 4 players per raid (1 per group). I am worried that Coercive Healing is not mentioned in the same manner. Anyone hear anything about Coercive Healing going the same way? If not, we need to make this aware that it needs to follow suit.</p>

[Encantador]

<p>Why on earth do you want this to be treated like TC ? Sure making this TC castable across groups makes it more powerful but (presuming that multiple TCs in a group are not possible) it also reduces the need for having more than one illu.</p><p>I am pretty sure there are going to be plenty of illusionists ready to jump up and down about not being stackable in a raid. Take 1 Illu - get lots of nice buffs and good DPS. Take 2 and get the same as taking 1 plus a little help for group power and DPS below that of a sorceror.</p><p>Nothing has been said about any of the powerful single target buffs like IA, and as far as I am concerned the fewer changes to our buffs the better. If you really twist my arm I would quite like Channel to be raidwide and Manaflow, apart from that no changes please.</p>

[Hecula]

<p>Why on earth would you not want it to be treated the same? Raids are not going to recruit more Coercers because of these changes and not being on equal footing with Illusionists on our equivalent class-defining spell is stupid.</p><p>If you think the devs are going through all this trouble and have it just result in a Illusionist spot switching to Coercer, you're mistaken. They'll keep making changes until they get what they want.</p>

[Encantador]

<p>Be careful with your name calling. Settle down and think a bit. Is 1 coercer's place in the raid at risk?</p><p>I don't think so. Short of drastic changes to aggro management and power management, raids will have at least 1 coercer.</p><p>So if your guild has more than one (and most raid guilds do) how are you going to justify having a second?</p><p>I do not care about being on an 'equal' footing. All I want is a coercer that is playable and not just a buffbot. The more general our buffs, and the more powerful, then the less of other things we will have.</p>

[Aule]

I wonder if they're going to prevent more than one person per group from having these buffs? Otherwise I could easily see bringing 3 illy's still so that you can have 12 TC's and 12 IA's.

[Illine]

<p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why on earth do you want this to be treated like TC ? Sure making this TC castable across groups makes it more powerful but (presuming that multiple TCs in a group are not possible) it also reduces the need for having more than one illu.</p></blockquote><p>the point of those changes is actually to need only one illu to the raid.</p><p>so things like that will certainly happen to coercers .. and what about the hate transfert??</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I wonder if they're going to prevent more than one person per group from having these buffs? Otherwise I could easily see bringing 3 illy's still so that you can have 12 TC's and 12 IA's.</blockquote><p>wouldn't be nice to forbid having 2 TC or 2 IAs</p><p>It would make illus not stakable even in a group.</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Illine@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I wonder if they're going to prevent more than one person per group from having these buffs? Otherwise I could easily see bringing 3 illy's still so that you can have 12 TC's and 12 IA's.</blockquote><p>wouldn't be nice to forbid having 2 TC or 2 IAs</p><p>It would make illus not stakable even in a group.</p></blockquote><p>I agree that it would make them not stackable at all, but if it's not somehow addressed it will not reduce the amount of illy's brought along at all.</p><p>I think if they're going to allow a single Illy to TC 4 people they are almost going to have to limit the buff to one per group and make them non-stackable.  I don't see a way around it that doesn't also re-incentivize bringing oodles of illy's.  The same would hold true for coercer troub and dirge single target buffs.</p><p>Be interesting to see how enraging demeanor is affected, they may end up letting you transfer hate to more than one person, though that's sometimes counterproductive.  Hopefully it at least becomes raid target instead of group target.</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>Encantador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Be careful with your name calling. Settle down and think a bit.</p></blockquote><p>Huh? Point out one instance where I called you a name and you get a cookie. Don't be so sensitive - I'm not attaking you, just your point.</p><p>Anyways, it's pretty obvious that SOE is going to do all they can to reduce the number of enchanters (I never saw it broken down specifically to Illusionists) and Bards (never saw it broken down to Dirges) on raids. They've directly said it several times. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking: well, if they just change TC and IA to raid-wide, that will eliminate at least 1 or 2 Illusionist spots and if they don't change our spells, it will make room for another Coercer or 2 because ours won't be raid-wide.</p><p>But that's not going to happen because SOE doesn't want it to happen. They're going to great pains apparently to force this change on guilds. Not asking for CH to be changed in the same way is simply wishing for us to not have that utility. Not having CH affect multiple targets isn't going to change our ultimate number of raid spots. Neither will having CH affect multiple targets. But if I had to choose between the two, the final outcome being equal, I would choose to have that utility.</p><p>This isn't about raid spots - that battle is apparently already decided. It's about keeping similar class abilities the same between both enchanters.</p>

[Poss]

<p>A raid will always desire having 4 enchanters esp for power regen. However having 3 illus and one coercer might get balanced into having 2 of each, or the other way around.</p><p>Who says we are just buffbots? What about DPSers? The other day was my first time in palace of the ancient one. With one VP set piece(forearms) and NO(0) x4 raid loot items at all, only 87% selfbuffed spellcrit. In the MT group with no troub, I parsed as high as 10.3k on trash and trash zw was 8.3k..</p><p>I can't imagine what a coercer with full T4 set and a few pieces of contested loot can parse.</p><p>So dont say we're just buffbots....</p>

[Siphar]

<p>Full raid gear in MT grp with dirge, after the proc nerf, my DPS is down to like 9-12k on trash in palace</p><p>Then again, there is always heavy lag in this zone</p>

[Hecula]

<p><cite>Possom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A raid will always desire having 4 enchanters esp for power regen. However having 3 illus and one coercer might get balanced into having 2 of each, or the other way around.</p><p>Who says we are just buffbots? What about DPSers?</p></blockquote><p>Unless they make at least 2 of our power regen spells raid-wide (Mana Flow and at least 1 other) power will still be a significant reason to take an enchanter in every group because half of everything in TSO drains power.</p><p>I'm not saying we're buffbots - I love to DPS - I have fun doing it. But everyone else is saying we shouldn't do this type of DPS including Aeralik. We, as a community of Coercers, seem to be catatonic to all of these changes. I don't hear a lot of opposition to any of this. If the summoner changes prove anything, it's the harder you whine, the more you get. So why are we being so silent?</p><p>No other class has been nerfed as much as we have in TSO - from the destruction of Thoughtsnap and Amnesia to the nerfing of our charmed pets to the nerfing of our DPS through proc nerfs and more that I'm not going to mention. Now we're destined for another big one. If we don't start talking about what we want, we're going to go back to the broken class we were prior to half-way through ROK.</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Hecula wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Possom wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A raid will always desire having 4 enchanters esp for power regen. However having 3 illus and one coercer might get balanced into having 2 of each, or the other way around.</p><p>Who says we are just buffbots? What about DPSers?</p></blockquote><p>Unless they make at least 2 of our power regen spells raid-wide (Mana Flow and at least 1 other) power will still be a significant reason to take an enchanter in every group because half of everything in TSO drains power.</p><p>I'm not saying we're buffbots - I love to DPS - I have fun doing it. But everyone else is saying we shouldn't do this type of DPS including Aeralik. We, as a community of Coercers, seem to be catatonic to all of these changes. I don't hear a lot of opposition to any of this. If the summoner changes prove anything, it's the harder you whine, the more you get. So why are we being so silent?</p><p>No other class has been nerfed as much as we have in TSO - from the destruction of Thoughtsnap and Amnesia to the nerfing of our charmed pets to the nerfing of our DPS through proc nerfs and more that I'm not going to mention. Now we're destined for another big one. If we don't start talking about what we want, we're going to go back to the broken class we were prior to half-way through ROK.</p></blockquote><p>If they start stripping DPS from us, they sure as heck need to provide A TON more utility to us..... because quite frankly, hate feed to the tank through our massive DPS is about it.... Power feeding the raid / group is possible with mythical epic but fabled epic is worthless for power feeding anything, including your own group...  and if you have any melee'rs in the group, there goes any Peacefull link buffs for anyone in the raid</p><p>IE: make our DPS buff group / raid wide, and give us a HECK of a lot more ability to feed the raid power better...  Raid wide mana flow, or increase it from 10 percent to 20 or 25 percent etc... something that will replace that lost DPS with gained PPS (yes power per second)...</p>

[chily]

<p>Mythical Manaflow .. good for feedingMana cloak .. good for feeding, but only in heavy aoe fights Channeling ... good for speed feedingToughts ... not that good for feeding somehow. Not from the point that the it's only 80 power (with AA) every 6 sec, but it only works as long as the spell lands on the mob and that it doesn't dispelled by the mob.</p><p>It would be nice if toughs get's changed for example ...</p><p>Move the Int debuff to asylum, pysche or brainshock lineKeep the power regen on toughts but let the target be the group.Of course the gain is not that much, but still it's like 320 power after 24 secs</p><p>Other possible change could be that Intellectual Remedy procs power when a group member casts a benefical spell, like 100 power or so. it's not much of course but it could incease the powerfeeding for healers quite nicely.</p>