2hand weapons

[Nasaan]

<p>Why have 2hand weapons become obsolete? The same thing happened in eq1, after a point, no one ever uses polearm or a claymore anymore. Why? Not not make 2handers equal to equipping 2 one hand weapons, give people some variety. Also, hitting less would mean not taking as much riposte damage?</p>

[Illine]

<p>because mechanic is not done properly.</p><p>and with mythical no way to use 2handed weapons even for SK/paladins ...</p><p>a 2 handed weapon should deal as much damage as 2 one handed ... have better effects or multiple ones ... better stats worth 2 one handed weapons and we should be able to place 2 adornment on them.</p><p>right now nothing has been done about it.</p><p>there are many things that need to be fixed .. but usually it's easier to nerf than to fix <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gilasil]

<p>I always thought that was a shame.  In many games my ideal toon is some plate clad whatever the class is for that game with a really big two-hander.  My favorite toon in NWN2 was a fighter/weapon master for bastd sword (stupid filter can't understand this is a type of sword).</p><p>I agree that as long as epics are all one-handed you're not going to see much with two handers.</p><p>I seem to recall that the warrior epic in EQ1 could be be assembled by the player into either two one handed weapons or one two handed.  Basically some clicking to switch from one to the other.  Too bad they couldn't do that here. </p><p>Another approach might be to have something which could be wielded either one handed or two handed.  Give it two different sets of stats depending on how it's wielded.</p><p>They'd have to fix up mechanics of course.</p><p>Just some ideas.</p>

[Hardain]

<p>Enable us to transform mythicals, maybe even fabled epics from 1H to 2H and vice versa, just like with Godking weapons and Wurmslayer.</p><p>Or make better 2H weapons.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Hardain@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Enable us to transform mythicals, maybe even fabled epics from 1H to 2H and vice versa, just like with Godking weapons and Wurmslayer.</span></p><p>Or make better 2H weapons.</p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #00ff00;">yea this is the only way i see 2h weapons ever coming back into the game. </span></p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Hey, a new expansion is just around the corner, and there will be a new epic questline, a level cap raise, and it may well be that mythicals won't be the be-all-end-all anymore.  </p>

[Kreagan De'Unerro]

<p>Unless they extremely upgrade the weapons in T9/xpack, there is no reason to not use most mythicals. Majority of the Myths have insane procs and abilities, and I do not see any fable garnishing most of their utility.</p><p>Now what they should do is continue questlines to upgrade your mythical, and maybe find a sister item like say your myth was a sword, then ya should find the shield that was used with it, or guantlet to weild it,etc... Staff, find an orb(offhander),censur,etc...</p><p>Myths are in the game I do not think we will be losing them anytime soon.</p>

[Nero]

<p>I'm a SK.SK looks nice in 2H weapon.</p><p>2H weapon, Zweihander, and so on should be viable.But the current game mechanic doesn't permit fighters to select 2H weapon.Because 2H weapon has many demerits compared to 1H weapon and shield.</p><p>2H weapon can't be placed on by more than 2 adornments.2H weapon itself has less damage, less effect, and less stats compared to 1h weapon and shield.</p><p>2H weapon will suit for especially crusaders.I'm missing the time of 2H weapon to be viable.</p>

[Aule]

<p>2H weapons should be more damaging than dual wielding because you have less options for mixing and matching. Also, adornments for 2H weapons either need to be beefed up significantly, or have two slots on the weapon.  Just look at that waste of code that is the +attack speed buff adornment that is Fabled but does not stack with any other form of haste.  Where exactly is the point of that?  +25 haste that doesn't stack with the +38 you get from t2 gloves?</p>

[Nero]

<p>Improvement of 2 hand weapon</p><p>(1) Auto attack has some chance of AE melee attack.</p><p>(2) 2 hand weapon can parry instead of a shield.</p><p>(3) 2 hand weapon has + defense, + parry, and block effectiveness(like shield effectiveness) to be on par with 1 hand weapon and a shield.</p><p>(4) Damage bonus according to swing speed of 2 hand weapon. Increase damage rate.</p><p>(5) 2 hand weapon has more hit chance(accuracy) than 1 hand weapon.</p><p>(6) Readjustment of combat arts/spells so that 2 hand weapon is viable.</p><p>(7) Introduce an item like Grip of Final Fantasy 11 in sub weapon slot. (For example, Grip increases swing speed. That is to say, haste. As above, Grip increases some stats slightly like adornment)</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>A 2 hander shouldn't be something you'd want to tank in, but it <em>should</em> be something you'd want to DPS in. The damage output from a 2 hander needs to be <em>at least</em> as good as dual wielding. That way Warriors and Brawlers will want to use them, and not just crusaders.</p><p>It's too late for this expansion, but next expansion there's a level cap increase, which means a new chance to re-itemize 2 handers to be viable.</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Nero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Improvement of 2 hand weapon</p><p>(1) Auto attack has some chance of AE melee attack.</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;"><strong>too strong, the effect is on the weapon you choose, but a metal halberd should'nt have the ability to AE.</strong></span></p><p>(2) 2 hand weapon can parry instead of a shield.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">so could 2 weapon fighting. Not as good as a shield but you could parry with the second weapon (usually the 2nd weapon was used to parry, no to attack)</span></strong></p><p>(3) 2 hand weapon has + defense, + parry, and block effectiveness(like shield effectiveness) to be on par with 1 hand weapon and a shield.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">no, 2h weapons are made for dps, not tanking. If you tank you use a shield, if you dps, you use whether 2 weapons or a 2 handed.</span></strong></p><p>(4) Damage bonus according to swing speed of 2 hand weapon. Increase damage rate.</p><p>(5) 2 hand weapon has more hit chance(accuracy) than 1 hand weapon.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">why? damages more but it's easier to dodge coz it's longer to attack with. But the damage should be far greater</span></strong></p><p>(6) Readjustment of combat arts/spells so that 2 hand weapon is viable.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">why??</span></strong></p><p>(7) Introduce an item like Grip of Final Fantasy 11 in sub weapon slot. (For example, Grip increases swing speed. That is to say, haste. As above, Grip increases some stats slightly like adornment)</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">just allow to place 2 adornments, one for the grip, one for the blade. where 1h weapons could only have adornments for the grip or blade (not enough room on the sword)</span></strong></p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>as I said, 2h weapons must compete with 2 1h weapons. not with 1 weapon and a shield.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>So yeah, the dps, adornments, effects should be better, like the effet should be the double of a 1h weapon or enable 2 effects, same for the adornment. The effect is twice the same as a 1h weapon or make them the same but enable to put 2 adornments.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>same for stats and bonuses, should be better, because if overall the stats and bonuses are better with 2 weapons, why take a 2handed???</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>still you'll always need a shield to tank.</strong></span></p>

[Nero]

<p><cite>Illine@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Improvement of 2 hand weapon</p><p>(1) Auto attack has some chance of AE melee attack.</p><p><span style="color: #ff9900;"><strong>too strong, the effect is on the weapon you choose, but a metal halberd should'nt have the ability to AE.</strong></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I can imagine easily that 2hand weapon like Claymore or Bxastard Sword cuts off alongside.</span></p><p>(2) 2 hand weapon can parry instead of a shield.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">so could 2 weapon fighting. Not as good as a shield but you could parry with the second weapon (usually the 2nd weapon was used to parry, no to attack)</span></strong></p><p>(3) 2 hand weapon has + defense, + parry, and block effectiveness(like shield effectiveness) to be on par with 1 hand weapon and a shield.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">no, 2h weapons are made for dps, not tanking. If you tank you use a shield, if you dps, you use whether 2 weapons or a 2 handed.</span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Remember 2hand weapon for only crusader in EQ1.That 2hand weapons were more defensive than normal shield.</span></p><p>(4) Damage bonus according to swing speed of 2 hand weapon. Increase damage rate.</p><p>(5) 2 hand weapon has more hit chance(accuracy) than 1 hand weapon.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">why? damages more but it's easier to dodge coz it's longer to attack with. But the damage should be far greater</span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Long reach is suitable for a sword to be hit.Long 2hand weapon is better at hitting a big dragon than short 1 hand dagger , imo.</span></p><p>(6) Readjustment of combat arts/spells so that 2 hand weapon is viable.</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">why??</span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Because there is combat arts which is based on the assumption that a fighter uses a shield.For example, SK's Hateful Slam.</span></p><p>(7) Introduce an item like Grip of Final Fantasy 11 in sub weapon slot. (For example, Grip increases swing speed. That is to say, haste. As above, Grip increases some stats slightly like adornment)</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">just allow to place 2 adornments, one for the grip, one for the blade. where 1h weapons could only have adornments for the grip or blade (not enough room on the sword)</span></strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>In EQ1, 2hand weapon was as defensive as a shield especially for crusaders.Therefore, I would like 2hand weapon to be defensive.</p>

[Hardain]

<p><cite>Illine@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>still you'll always need a shield to tank.</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>What?</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Hardain@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Illine@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"><strong>still you'll always need a shield to tank [the absolute hardest encounters that your guild is capable of killing, as well as progression kills].</strong></span></p></blockquote><p>What?</p></blockquote><p>There I fixed it.  Please complete the entire sentence next time Illine, completely changes the meaning and gives the impression that a shield is required when you stop early.</p>

[Illine]

<p>well I assumed people are intelligent enough to understand that.</p><p>Anyway, for me a 2 hander shouldn't have the dps of 2 weapons AND have also some defense like a shield.</p><p>But the weapon could have some +parry/+riposte or things like that for sure.</p>

[Nero]

<p>To be honest, I don't want 2hand weapon to be viable as dps very much.I like 2hand weapon because it is suitable for Knights.2hand weapon and any item like Grip of Final Fantasy 11, which can have any proc as some shields have, may be able to be on par with 1hand weapon and a shield as to defensive ability.Of course, 2hand weapon for dps is nice, too.But as a Shadowknight, I want to tank with 2hand weapon.Knights with 2hand weapons rock.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>If you want to tank with a 2-handed weapon, thats fine.   Here is what is likely to happen in the next expansion:</p><p>  2Handers shoudl be more plentiful, and there should be more "High-DPS" 2handers that will be better or at least on par with duel wielding.  </p><p>  1Hander and Shield will still be best for tanking</p><p>  Easier encounters you will always be able to drop a shield for, so you will be able to use yoru 2hander while tanking trash.  </p><p>   Expect the possibility of at least 1 nice defensive 2-hander.    Not as much defense as a shield, but more dps than simply using a 1 hander.  </p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Crabbok@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you want to tank with a 2-handed weapon, thats fine.   Here is what is likely to happen in the next expansion:</p><p>2Handers shoudl be more plentiful, and there should be more "High-DPS" 2handers that will be better or at least on par with duel wielding.  </p><p>1Hander and Shield will still be best for tanking</p><p>Easier encounters you will always be able to drop a shield for, so you will be able to use yoru 2hander while tanking trash.  </p><p>Expect the possibility of at least 1 nice defensive 2-hander.    Not as much defense as a shield, but more dps than simply using a 1 hander.  </p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>Encounters that you can currently dual-wield tank you should also be able to 2-hander tank just as effectively. In both cases you're not using a shield, so the only difference between DW and 2H is DPS. And currently (even excluding mythicals altogether) there's no 2 handed weapon that's on par with dual wielding, DPS wise.</p><p>As you said, DPS wise a good 2 hander should be at least on-par with dual wielding, otherwise they will get no use from brawlers and warriors. Heck the entire Berserker community would be <em>elated </em>if we had a 2-handed Axe that was worth using in a DPS role; they fit the image of a Berserker perfectly.</p>

[Landiin]

I know it is a game but 2 handers are large bone crushing, skull splitting, impelling heavy weapons. I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection. They should be slow HIGH damage weapons and prob should always have some sort of knockback to them if hit with. But yea, how can plate tanks have such high avoidance. So I guess any thing is doable <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection. They should be slow HIGH damage weapons and prob should always have some sort of knockback to them if hit with. </blockquote><p>You'd be surprised what you could do with two handed melee weapons, in real life that is. Depending on the weapon of course.</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I know it is a game but 2 handers are large bone crushing, skull splitting, impelling heavy weapons. I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection. They should be slow HIGH damage weapons and prob should always have some sort of knockback to them if hit with. But yea, how can plate tanks have such high avoidance. So I guess any thing is doable <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>I know this is a game but using a shield would be completely ineffective against an opponent 30x as massive as you.  I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection.  </p><p>Besides, two-handed weapons in real life also crumpled armor, just look at the flamberge for reference.  Next should we add that every time you're struck by an opponent using a 2h weapon your gear takes damage?</p><p>Seriously, making references to how things work "in the real world" is pretty lame.  Just like all those stupid threads about how brawlers shouldn't be able to tank dragons because their leather armor just won't hold up to the massive blow.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Yah yah, don't get your knickers into a twist or anything.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Part of the problem going into the next expansion is that, at least right now, Dual Wielding is still godmode DPSing, and now that SKs and Paladins have their TSO "Knight's Stance" AA, Sword and Board is godmode DPSing (Knight's Stance raises auto attack damage by ~25% (give or take) if you're using Shield and weapon.  Effectively making any weapon the crusader holds a "Knight Sword" type from EQ1)</p><p>To compete with this, new 2 handers are going to need huge damage ratings which I, sadly, don't see happening.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, me want 2 handers, I think they're awesome, but so many issues facing SOE going forward that I just don't see it happening.</p>

[Uggli]

<p>I've started to stockpile cool looking two handers for when/if they fix them.   Picked up 'Culling Blade of Pancreatic Destruction' in RE2 last night, and it looks freekin sweet.  Dripping blood all over the place when held in combat stance.</p>

[Nero]

<p>I can't remember the name, but a bloody-red sythe from Shard of Fear looks very awesome.Especially it seems to be suitable for Shadowknight.If 2hand weapon becomes viable, I will use that sythe in appearance slot.</p>

[Uggli]

<p>'Dawnfear, The Reaper'  I've got that one too. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Halls of Fate for Vukor'ahk (I think that's how you spell it), the Blade of Legend is good too (Vukor'ahk being a nice red katana with a flaming blade ala EQ1 SoulFire)</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hey, a new expansion is just around the corner, and there will be a new epic questline, a level cap raise, and it may well be that mythicals won't be the be-all-end-all anymore.  </p></blockquote><p>The current plan seems to be that mythicals will either get their own new slot on your toon, or become charm items, or be usable so that their buffs/procs and other effects will remain even if you don't use them as your weapon. So, for example, the Paladin gets a nice fabled T9 sword, he simply takes his mythical and drops it in another slot or clicks it and continues to get his 10% DR, 10% heal conversion, Marr proc and all that good stuff.</p><p>While mythicals won't be the <em>weapons</em> of choice in the new expansion, they're not going away and I predict they're still going to be required gear for raiding in T9.</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Toran@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I know it is a game but 2 handers are large bone crushing, skull splitting, impelling heavy weapons. I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection. They should be slow HIGH damage weapons and prob should always have some sort of knockback to them if hit with. But yea, how can plate tanks have such high avoidance. So I guess any thing is doable <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>I know this is a game but using a shield would be completely ineffective against an opponent 30x as massive as you.  I don't see how you would even think it would give any kind of protection.  </p><p>Besides, two-handed weapons in real life also crumpled armor, just look at the flamberge for reference.  Next should we add that every time you're struck by an opponent using a 2h weapon your gear takes damage?</p><p>Seriously, making references to how things work "in the real world" is pretty lame.  Just like all those stupid threads about how brawlers shouldn't be able to tank dragons because their leather armor just won't hold up to the massive blow.</p></blockquote><p>the blade of the 2 hander is large enough to protect you a bit, but still in real life fights were usually fast. The first one to hit with a 2hander won.</p><p>latter sword fights were more civilized and people would fight with thin swords and a 2nd weapon to parry.</p><p>shields also didn't protect of everything. I don't think many shields were totally usefull against a huge axe. Shields were used to parry, or protect from arrows but almost useless against blunt weapons. After one hit of a warhammer, many shield had a strange shape.</p><p>but in many games, fights last long, then shields have another use.</p><p>As you said, many things used in games cannot be compared to real life since fights usually were fast and the first to hit was the winner. Even more true with katana.</p><p>and how cloud a shield really protect againts a dragon claw?? in game it's possible because the shield is full of magic. It's the magic that protects the shield from breaking that protects you.</p><p>Since magic doesn't exists in our world that way, ... we can't compare <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Landiin]

<p>What magic doesn't exists in our world.. Then why in the [filtered F word] do I have on this dumb pointy hat? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Lodor]

<p>Dps wise there are 3 2h weapons that post decent numbers.</p><p>One can only be gotten on pvp servers for 400 rok era tokens but the other 2 anyone more or less can get in time.</p><p>The 2h hammer from WoE, and 2h sword from one the new instances added last update. the new sword has a clicky area nuke that does 5k+ damage even.</p><p>Granted their stat mods dont compare to using 2 1hers but their dps is at least close.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Lodor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Dps wise there are 3 2h weapons that post decent numbers.</p><p>One can only be gotten on pvp servers for 400 rok era tokens but the other 2 anyone more or less can get in time.</p><p>The 2h hammer from WoE, and 2h sword from one the new instances added last update. the new sword has a clicky area nuke that does 5k+ damage even.</p><p>Granted their stat mods dont compare to using 2 1hers but their dps is at least close.</p></blockquote><p>Those 2h'ers all pale in comparison to DW'ing an epic weapon and another nice 1h'er.  They also pale in comparison to Crusaders using epic because of the TSO AA line (thank God SOE put that in since they still haven't gotten 2h weapons right for DPS).</p><p>The only ones that really consider a 2h weapon at cap are healers who are trying to squeeze out a little more DPS.  Very situational and once they get a mythical just about moot.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>It is pretty sad how completely useless 2handers are in EQ2 today.</p><p>I always preferred the look and animations of 2handers....and remember way back in the beginning of EQ2 where using a good 2hander was a solid alternative for DPS.</p>

[Bruener]

<p>Well, my guess is that next expansion SOE will get it right...otherwise it will be just another thing that other games can get right.  Playing Aion in beta right now and the 2h wep is nice.  It deserves to be a viable DPS option in EQ2 and I am sure is on the dashboard.  Typical for them to wait till it is glaringly obvious though.</p><p>My hope is that they have some kind of niche for 2h weapons.  Either 2h weapons provide the best DPS, or they could make it so that tanking with 2h weapon is somewhere in between 1h+shield and DW'ing for effectiveness.  Add some type of uncontested avoidance on 2h weapons that is half of what a shield brings and we are talking.  Or, instead they could make 2h weapons the best DPS and than make it so that DW'ing raises parry with the offhand by a significant amount...at least for tanks this would be nice.</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is pretty sad how completely useless 2handers are in EQ2 today.</p><p>I always preferred the look and animations of 2handers....and remember way back in the beginning of EQ2 where using a good 2hander was a solid alternative for DPS.</p></blockquote><p>but before you had 2handers, 1handers and dw weapons. They changed and after that any 1hander could be DW.</p><p>so before the DW weapons had a rating inferior than 1hander but put together gave a nice dps. 1handers were for carying a shiled and 2handers had a nice rating.</p><p>so 1 DW were equal to a 2hander in dps. When they changed the rating of the 1hander stayed the same and they didn't really change the rating of the 2handers. so now 2 1handers have a better dps than 1 2hander.</p><p>I liked how it was before and I like the D&D system for exemple. If you don't use a small weapon as secondary, your accuracy goes down. They wanted to simplify weapons but it's not that good.</p>

[Nero]

<p>I like 2hand weapons for dps.At the same time, I want 2hand weapons to be viable for tanking even in combat with named mobs.</p><p>Whether you like 2hand weapon for tanking or not, I don't know....But as a (Shadow)Knight, tanking with 2hand weapon is my dream.</p>

[Uglukson]

<div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span >EQ1 fixed the 2-handed mechanic in the Planes of Power era. Not only were the damage ratios and proc rates upped on 2 handers to make them more competitive despite their overall inferior stats to 2 one-handers, but mechanics were introduced to make them a more viable choice. Damage shields and riposte rates being a main factor - there were certain raid, group and solo mobs you didn't want to mess with dual-wielding (especially tanking) because the extra damage from ripostes made life too tough to keep a tank upright. As gear got better this was mitigated of course, but there was a genuine choice in a lot of cases for fighters and monks whether to dual wield or bring out the 2 hander. Less a dilemma for SKs and paladins, who were locked into 2-hander or sword-and-board.</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span >There's nothing to say that this sort of fix couldn't be applied to EQ2.</span></span></div>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Uglak@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span>EQ1 fixed the 2-handed mechanic in the Planes of Power era. Not only were the damage ratios and proc rates upped on 2 handers to make them more competitive despite their overall inferior stats to 2 one-handers, but mechanics were introduced to make them a more viable choice. Damage shields and riposte rates being a main factor - there were certain raid, group and solo mobs you didn't want to mess with dual-wielding (especially tanking) because the extra damage from ripostes made life too tough to keep a tank upright. As gear got better this was mitigated of course, but there was a genuine choice in a lot of cases for fighters and monks whether to dual wield or bring out the 2 hander. Less a dilemma for SKs and paladins, who were locked into 2-hander or sword-and-board.</span></span></div><div></div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span>There's nothing to say that this sort of fix couldn't be applied to EQ2.</span></span></div></blockquote><p>Auto Riposte ability + Weighted Axe FTW.  =P</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hardain@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Enable us to transform mythicals, maybe even fabled epics from 1H to 2H and vice versa, just like with Godking weapons and Wurmslayer.</span></p><p>Or make better 2H weapons.</p></blockquote><p> <span style="color: #00ff00;">yea this is the only way i see 2h weapons ever coming back into the game. </span></p></blockquote><p>Mythicals are leaving the game as you level into t9.</p><p>Now all you need to do is get the itemization dev to recognize the stats / dr of 2 handers are not set properly and they can become useful.</p>

[therodge]

(note typeing from ps3 so will be a wall of text sorry) honestly id like to see 2 handers get a huge rework. first would be increasing the minimum delay on a 2 hander to 10 seconds high end delay to up to 15 seconds (this would make it a very much hit or miss weopon and would be streaky to say the least) second increase the DR from low end teir 8 (MC) being around 120 or high end being upwards of 200 (which would equal out to 2 100 dr 1handers) i also think 2 handers should have an innate 20% aoe attack attached to them. and with these changes dual weild will still be preferable on the toughest of tough mobs expecially single target (due to streakyness of the 2 hander) but on anything at 85 or lower a sick 2 hander will throw up those big hits everyone wants to see

[Uggli]

<p>How to change 2Handers imo....</p><p>DPS</p><p>DW > 2H >> 1H+shield</p><p>Defense</p><p>1H+shield >>> 2H > DW</p><p>Increase the damage of 2-handers a so they are better than 1 handers (but not better than DW), greatly increase the stats to compete with two items.    Fix/Make AA lines for DW and 2H so they actually matter.</p><p>2H should also have the ability to "cripple" a mob for a short duration with each hit, giving you a slight defense bonus (or who ever the mob is hitting)    But this should not be a large effect.  Shields should always be the best defense choice when tanking.</p><p>Balance it around duration or cripple (next hit, next X seconds),  and the actual effect (-tohit, +slow, -damage amount, etc), if you can stack cripple effects from more than one PC, etc etc etc.</p><p>Start with the 81-90 levels, but then go back and tweak the lower levels, just do not go overboard with the changes as it could greatly unbalance the lower levels.</p><p>Edit: The one Shield Bash ability should also get the % chance to fire off the "cripple" effect also.</p>

[Uglukson]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uglak@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span>EQ1 fixed the 2-handed mechanic in the Planes of Power era. Not only were the damage ratios and proc rates upped on 2 handers to make them more competitive despite their overall inferior stats to 2 one-handers, but mechanics were introduced to make them a more viable choice. Damage shields and riposte rates being a main factor - there were certain raid, group and solo mobs you didn't want to mess with dual-wielding (especially tanking) because the extra damage from ripostes made life too tough to keep a tank upright. As gear got better this was mitigated of course, but there was a genuine choice in a lot of cases for fighters and monks whether to dual wield or bring out the 2 hander. Less a dilemma for SKs and paladins, who were locked into 2-hander or sword-and-board.</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span>There's nothing to say that this sort of fix couldn't be applied to EQ2.</span></span></div></blockquote><p>Auto Riposte ability + Weighted Axe FTW.  =P</p></blockquote><p>Oh. Yes.</p><p>Or in the monkly case, the glory that was the Dathor Greathammer!  That first time soloing Trak using Whirlwind + Innerflame... sure got the heart pumping.  Also allowed a group of 6 monks to take down Sontalak unassisted - now that would have been fun.  Of course I suppose these days none of that would be much of an achievement!</p><p>From a brawler perspective, give us something we don't have already when using a two hander.  AoE auto attack!</p>

[Tommara]

<p>Casting my vote for 2-handed weapons.</p><p>I've always been a fan of 2-handed weapons - they look cooler.  A long standing joke is "shields are for wimps".  I've pretty much shunned shields in any game I've played.  And would shun shields in EQ2 if it were a viable choice.</p><p>So I don't advocate any shield type abilities at all for 2-handed weapons.  I do advocate for 2-handed weapons to do enough damage to make it an interesting choice to sacrifice the protection of a shield for the dps of a 2-H.</p>

[Nero]

<p>If 2H weapon becomes viable for dps, who will use it?We are fighters.That is to say, tank.If 2H weapon doesn't become viable for tanking, fighters won't and can't use 2H weapon, imo.</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Nero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If 2H weapon becomes viable for dps, who will use it?We are fighters.That is to say, tank.If 2H weapon doesn't become viable for tanking, fighters won't and can't use 2H weapon, imo.</p></blockquote><p>Why not? We use DW now tanking or DPSing so if 2H was alt way to  DPS then I dont' see why we wouldn't use them.</p>

[Illine]

<p>for soloing for exemple.</p><p>when you solo you need more dps than defense, and using a big 2H sword is better than using a sword and a shield.</p>

[Maamadex]

<p>Being a tank doesn't just mean you stand in front of the mob or mobs, in full defensive gear and stance with a big ol shield, and keep its attention heh.  Nothing wrong with going full bore on an encounter and doing damage as long as you don't die or get anyone else killed, or give the healer(s) a heart attack. I frequently put on dps gear and do as much dps as i can if i think i should, if there was a 2hander that'd be better than my myth I'd use it too. But 2handers just plain suck atm.</p>

[Lleren]

<p>One of the reasons we can use dual weild to tank with, is that its its a single button press to switch that offhand weapon with a nice big shield if we start needing it.  To switch from a 2 handed weapon to weapon and shield, well one of those equips is going to have a 2 second delay.</p>

[Ocello]

<p>You guys are all wrong on the order for DPS vs defense</p><p>Should be 2H > DW >1H for DPS and 1H > DW > 2H for defense. </p><p>Dual wielding gives you a parrying blade, which basically works as a shield when used correctly that you can also slash or stab with.  Think Drizzt Do'Urden.</p><p>Wielding a 2Hander is more of an all-out "I KILL YOU" way of fighting.  The only real defense this offers is reach and the fear of getting one-shotted with one swipe, which would be a fantastic addition, but not one that is likely to fly for SoE.  Think King Obould and his flaming greatsword in Salvatore's newest works. </p>

[jrolla777]

<p><cite>Ocello wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Think Drizzt Do'Urden. <span style="color: #ff0000;">who?</span><p>Wielding a 2Hander is more of an all-out "I KILL YOU" way of fighting.  The only real defense this offers is reach and the fear of getting one-shotted with one swipe, which would be a fantastic addition, but not one that is likely to fly for SoE.  Think King Obould and his flaming greatsword in Salvatore's newest works. </p></blockquote><p>I would like some 2h'ers that offer large defensive stats(at the expense of dps), and some that are all out crazy bananas dps(at the expense of defense).</p>

[Ocello]

<p><cite>Nancy@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ocello wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Think Drizzt Do'Urden. <span style="color: #ff0000;">who?</span></blockquote></blockquote><p>I didn't even read the rest of your post.  You are not one of us if you don't understand this name, my friend.</p>

[Aule]

Yep, thanks R.A. Salvatore for making a bunch of dual wield fanboi's. The reality is that nobody fought with both weapons at the same time, the offhand weapon was a shield-substitute and would take focus as a infrequent opportunistic strike arose. People love their Drizzt though so we're stuck with it.

[Siatfallen]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Yep, thanks R.A. Salvatore for making a bunch of dual wield fanboi's. The reality is that nobody fought with both weapons at the same time, the offhand weapon was a shield-substitute and would take focus as a infrequent opportunistic strike arose. People love their Drizzt though so we're stuck with it.</blockquote><p>That's an interesting - if sweeping - generalisation. What evidence do you base it on?Looking at what I've lying around (swordplay, europe, ca. 1400-1500, pretty much where we see plate armor used in any quantity) using two weapons was all but unheard of, and shields were rarely used at all, save from horseback (oh, right, and to display heraldry, let's not forget). Most used melee weapons for heavily armored infantry would be hand-and-a-half sword, short polearms (spear, glaive, triaxt, bec-de-corbin, many many other variants), short heavy chopping swords and pikes later on (16th century - look up katzbalger - yes, that means "cat-cleaver") and of course a dagger as a sidearm.</p><p>So an additional weapon was carried, sure, to be produced if the primary weapon was lost. Often a dagger - something easily produced and used in close quarters.But even the manuals covering self-defense in the larger cities where you did not carry a sword or a polearm around (they were weapons or war) does not mention even holding two weapons at once, unless you've just disarmed your opponent. Most of them make use of long knives (which, ahem, were obvious chef's knives, since you would not carry weapons in a city), which is the best medieval source for the use of short swords I can think of.</p><p>As an added note, it seems shields were used little as well - with plate armor (and thick gambesons for that matter) the added protection of a shield was minimal. I'm not an expert in the field or anything here, but I've been following it for a while, so I'm just curious why you bring it up. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If you're looking at Asian sources, or earlier sources from europe, please do say which. I'm all ears, and I'm sure you'd find variation there.</p><p>Bottom line: Looking at historical sources is all good and well, but it's an exercise in futility as far as trying to make sense of any MMO goes. None of the weapon-based classes make any sense there whatsoever in how they're commonly used in EQ2. Of course, some have a sort of reference we can follow, while others just seem pretty much without anything to support them at all.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you're looking at Asian sources, or earlier sources from europe, please do say which. I'm all ears, and I'm sure you'd find variation there.</p><p>Bottom line: Looking at historical sources is all good and well, but it's an exercise in futility as far as trying to make sense of any MMO goes. None of the weapon-based classes make any sense there whatsoever in how they're commonly used in EQ2. Of course, some have a sort of reference we can follow, while others just seem pretty much without anything to support them at all.</p></blockquote><p>Several asian fighting styles involve dual wield style weapons that are alternated in either hand defensively or offensively.</p><p>This doesn't really lend to the high fantasy genre though.  And really, practicality never really factors well into MMO's</p><p>In regards to the OP.  Crusaders should be pushed into 2h build in order to do top dps.  In fact I'd lower thier current sword and board down about 30% and reshape the aa lines to provide bonuses to 2hand style.  This is strictly to a game ballance issue as other plate tanks have to drop the shield to do roughly the same dps crusaders are doing with sword and board.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you're looking at Asian sources, or earlier sources from europe, please do say which. I'm all ears, and I'm sure you'd find variation there.</p><p>Bottom line: Looking at historical sources is all good and well, but it's an exercise in futility as far as trying to make sense of any MMO goes. None of the weapon-based classes make any sense there whatsoever in how they're commonly used in EQ2. Of course, some have a sort of reference we can follow, while others just seem pretty much without anything to support them at all.</p></blockquote><p>Several asian fighting styles involve dual wield style weapons that are alternated in either hand defensively or offensively.</p><p>This doesn't really lend to the high fantasy genre though.  And really, practicality never really factors well into MMO's</p><p>In regards to the OP.  Crusaders should be pushed into 2h build in order to do top dps.  In fact I'd lower thier current sword and board down about 30% and reshape the aa lines to provide bonuses to 2hand style.  This is strictly to a game ballance issue as other plate tanks have to drop the shield to do roughly the same dps crusaders are doing with sword and board.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah except we have been through this many times.  Itemization for 2h weapons is complete junk.  All Mythicals are 1h weapons.  DW is faster to switch to sword and board.  Etc, etc etc.</p><p>SOE took the easy way out and instead of actually itemizing good 2h weapons they adjusted Crusaders to do more damage with Sword and Board than Warriors since they won't let them DW.</p><p>Solution.  Well the best solution is to actually itemize for good 2h weapons.  Specifically for Crusader 2h weapons like in EQ1 that have defensive components...like a built in shield block and to allow for shield effectiveness to work with 2h weapons.  Or, since 2h weapons take longer to switch to tank mode with than 2h weapons do more DPS than DW'ing, significantly more since that extra couple seconds is huge when taking over tanking.</p><p>Of course SOE could actually fix the crappy 2h itemization next xpac....but what are the odd of that happening?  We haven't seen anything yet.</p>