Damage procs

[ChaoticVisions]

<p>I'll keep this short and simple, getting right to the point.</p><p>Having damage procs (on attacks) on nearly every piece of gear is getting way out of hand. I'm getting hit with an auto attack and about 3-4 and sometimes even more NON POISON/NON CLASS RELATED damage procs occuring off one hit. What might have been a 1k auto attack now becomes a nearly 2.5-3k hit? And let's not even get started on how this effects long delay weapons (think RANGER). I think that damage procs should be removed from all pieces of gear during PvP combat minus maybe like weapons and poisons.</p><p>I don't even see how someone can come up with a legitimate argument in defense of them. They are taking classes so far outside of what they should even be capable of doing that it's not even funny. Let's put skill and strategy back in the game. Remove all the excessive damage procs (on attack) in PvP combat. PERIOD.</p><p>-Trilli</p>

[We_want_your_soul]

<p>I would have suggested you made this post after GU52, seeing as that could change procs in PvP noticeably.</p>

[Faenril]

control effect procs are far worse than damage procs imo (tribunal cloak and the likes wave hello).

[sokil]

<p>I would suggest reviewing the zone wide procs and such first. Its quit frustrating to be stunned/stiffled when I am halfway accross the zone still running to the battle.</p><p>but rather than remove, just review how these damage procs work together and perhaps limit them somewhat so the battle last more than 3 sec. without any real work involved (other than getting the damage proc items of course).</p><p>I agree about putting some skill back into pvp.</p>

[Kendayar]

<p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll keep this short and simple, getting right to the point.</p><p>Having damage procs (on attacks) on nearly every piece of gear is getting way out of hand. I'm getting hit with an auto attack and about 3-4 and sometimes even more NON POISON/NON CLASS RELATED damage procs occuring off one hit. What might have been a 1k auto attack now becomes a nearly 2.5-3k hit? And let's not even get started on how this effects long delay weapons (think RANGER). I think that damage procs should be removed from all pieces of gear during PvP combat minus maybe like weapons and poisons.</p><p>I don't even see how someone can come up with a legitimate argument in defense of them. They are taking classes so far outside of what they should even be capable of doing that it's not even funny. Let's put skill and strategy back in the game. Remove all the excessive damage procs (on attack) in PvP combat. PERIOD.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Your post comes off as another self-serving request for procs to be removed except the ones that you use (weapons and poisons).</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p>Only procs that truly need fixed are the justice cloak with its stupid duration and miniscule immunity, and the taint of sacrifice which has a complete lack of immunity iirc.</p>

[ChaoticVisions]

<p><cite>Vanand@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll keep this short and simple, getting right to the point.</p><p>Having damage procs (on attacks) on nearly every piece of gear is getting way out of hand. I'm getting hit with an auto attack and about 3-4 and sometimes even more NON POISON/NON CLASS RELATED damage procs occuring off one hit. What might have been a 1k auto attack now becomes a nearly 2.5-3k hit? And let's not even get started on how this effects long delay weapons (think RANGER). I think that damage procs should be removed from all pieces of gear during PvP combat minus maybe like weapons and poisons.</p><p>I don't even see how someone can come up with a legitimate argument in defense of them. They are taking classes so far outside of what they should even be capable of doing that it's not even funny. Let's put skill and strategy back in the game. Remove all the excessive damage procs (on attack) in PvP combat. PERIOD.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Your post comes off as another self-serving request for procs to be removed except the ones that you use (weapons and poisons).</p></blockquote><p>And why is this a problem? Rogues and predators have always used poisons as that is a part of what our class has always done. And please let me remind you that poison using scouts only can use 1 type of DAMAGE poison at a time. Also, maybe you like to run around without weapons equipped, but last I checked every single class in the game uses weapons which I think having damage procs on is acceptable.</p><p>Also, that little extra damage poison costs coin. Damage proc gear costs nothing more than the time invested into getting the piece. We all know that damage can be excessive in T8 and has been a topic of debate and discussion for a very long time. The point is, it's taking classes too far out of context as to what they should be capable of. And don't forget that this change would effect me just as much as anyone else. I would lose some damage procs as well. It has nothing to do with being self serving. There has never been such an abundance of damage proc gear. I'm not talking about damage proccing off BEING HIT, I'm talking about damage proccing off LANDING A HIT. As a soloer who often reads combat logs when fights are over, it's easy to see that it's starting to go too far. Bane of slain pain, anger of myznak (mispelled perhaps), welled up rage, aftershock, ethernauts signet, deathy/greater/mortal lifetap, vampire's bane, void bane, blood symphony are just a few. Obviously some of these procs are only coming off the better geared players, but it's still excessive.</p><p>I'm also in agreeance with overpowered control effect procs, but that has been discussed many times (with little results) and I just figured maybe we could discuss excessive damage procs.</p><p>-Trilli</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vanand@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll keep this short and simple, getting right to the point.</p><p>Having damage procs (on attacks) on nearly every piece of gear is getting way out of hand. I'm getting hit with an auto attack and about 3-4 and sometimes even more NON POISON/NON CLASS RELATED damage procs occuring off one hit. What might have been a 1k auto attack now becomes a nearly 2.5-3k hit? And let's not even get started on how this effects long delay weapons (think RANGER). I think that damage procs should be removed from all pieces of gear during PvP combat minus maybe like weapons and poisons.</p><p>I don't even see how someone can come up with a legitimate argument in defense of them. They are taking classes so far outside of what they should even be capable of doing that it's not even funny. Let's put skill and strategy back in the game. Remove all the excessive damage procs (on attack) in PvP combat. PERIOD.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Your post comes off as another self-serving request for procs to be removed except the ones that you use (weapons and poisons).</p></blockquote><p>And why is this a problem? Rogues and predators have always used poisons as that is a part of what our class has always done. And please let me remind you that poison using scouts only can use 1 type of DAMAGE poison at a time. Also, maybe you like to run around without weapons equipped, but last I checked every single class in the game uses weapons which I think having damage procs on is acceptable.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Also, that little extra damage poison costs coin. Damage proc gear costs nothing more than the time invested into getting the piece</span>. We all know that damage can be excessive in T8 and has been a topic of debate and discussion for a very long time. The point is, it's taking classes too far out of context as to what they should be capable of. And don't forget that this change would effect me just as much as anyone else. I would lose some damage procs as well. It has nothing to do with being self serving. There has never been such an abundance of damage proc gear. I'm not talking about damage proccing off BEING HIT, I'm talking about damage proccing off LANDING A HIT.</p><p>I'm also in agreeance with overpowered control effect procs, but that has been discussed many times (with little results) and I just figured maybe we could discuss excessive damage procs.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Time is money <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Kendayar]

<p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vanand@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'll keep this short and simple, getting right to the point.</p><p>Having damage procs (on attacks) on nearly every piece of gear is getting way out of hand. I'm getting hit with an auto attack and about 3-4 and sometimes even more NON POISON/NON CLASS RELATED damage procs occuring off one hit. What might have been a 1k auto attack now becomes a nearly 2.5-3k hit? And let's not even get started on how this effects long delay weapons (think RANGER). I think that damage procs should be removed from all pieces of gear during PvP combat minus maybe like weapons and poisons.</p><p>I don't even see how someone can come up with a legitimate argument in defense of them. They are taking classes so far outside of what they should even be capable of doing that it's not even funny. Let's put skill and strategy back in the game. Remove all the excessive damage procs (on attack) in PvP combat. PERIOD.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Your post comes off as another self-serving request for procs to be removed except the ones that you use (weapons and poisons).</p></blockquote><p>And why is this a problem? Rogues and predators have always used poisons as that is a part of what our class has always done. And please let me remind you that poison using scouts only can use 1 type of DAMAGE poison at a time. Also, maybe you like to run around without weapons equipped, but last I checked every single class in the game uses weapons which I think having damage procs on is acceptable.</p><p>Also, that little extra damage poison costs coin. Damage proc gear costs nothing more than the time invested into getting the piece. We all know that damage can be excessive in T8 and has been a topic of debate and discussion for a very long time. The point is, it's taking classes too far out of context as to what they should be capable of. And don't forget that this change would effect me just as much as anyone else. I would lose some damage procs as well. It has nothing to do with being self serving. There has never been such an abundance of damage proc gear. I'm not talking about damage proccing off BEING HIT, I'm talking about damage proccing off LANDING A HIT. As a soloer who often reads combat logs when fights are over, it's easy to see that it's starting to go too far. Bane of slain pain, anger of myznak (mispelled perhaps), welled up rage, aftershock, ethernauts signet, deathy/greater/mortal lifetap, vampire's bane, void bane, blood symphony are just a few. Obviously some of these procs are only coming off the better geared players, but it's still excessive.</p><p>I'm also in agreeance with overpowered control effect procs, but that has been discussed many times (with little results) and I just figured maybe we could discuss excessive damage procs.</p><p>-Trilli</p></blockquote><p>Show me that your nerf cry is thought out and not just to help your assassin kill people easier, or show me that this isn't because you got rolled by Pudaan and now you're mad. I want to see extensive information on what this does to all 24 classes because believe it or not, we aren't all scouts.</p>

[ChaoticVisions]

<p>If anything, damage procs on a well geared Assassin is probably the worst scenario you can have. With Frontload running, all proc rates are DOUBLED. With FL up and one long delay bow shot, I could feasibly land 6-7 procs off of EVERY HIT. And just because you aren't a scout doesn't mean this won't effect you. Yes, scouts do seem to benefit from it the most and I myself am a scout, and perhaps the most potent user of damage procs being an Assassin. This would actually HURT my class, not make it better.</p><p>And just for the record, I don't really get angry when I lose PvP fights. I learn from them. I would like to see more reliance on CAs for damage as opposed to "I hit you and then all my gear hits you, too."</p><p>-Trilli</p><p>EDIT: Also, just for the sake of it, the last time Pudaan and I were engaged, I took him down to about 35-40%, he popped his STA line parry move and went scurrying back to his full group at which time I was killed. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he isn't dangerous. He is very much so, but if you're going to take shots at me getting "owned" by someone, please know what you're talking about.</p>

[Faenril]

So I guess the flurry proc from assassin's mythical wouldn't be concerned, right ?

[ChaoticVisions]

<p><cite>Faenril@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So I guess the flurry proc from assassin's mythical wouldn't be concerned, right ?</blockquote><p>Well, the flurry proc is what it is. I could certainly live without it. My damage is mostly CA based and if all goes according to plan (which it doesn't always), I don't even use but one or two auto attacks for the duration of my fights. Though, as it is a WEAPON BASED proc, I suppose it would fall into what I said about damage procs being fine on weapons. Either way, I'm not saying "I want to be better than everyone", I'm saying "Put the damage back in line with what the class should be doing in the first place."</p><p>-Trilli</p>

[Faenril]

<p>I don't get why weapon based procs are more acceptable or "skill based" than other gear based procs. Yes everyone wears a weapon, but everyone (well most ppl) wears rings, wrists, shoulders, charms.... you get the point.</p>

[ChaoticVisions]

<p><cite>Faenril@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't get why weapon based procs are more acceptable or "skill based" than other gear based procs. Yes everyone wears a weapon, but everyone (well most ppl) wears rings, wrists, shoulders, charms.... you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I'd be all for removing damage procs off weapons, too. I just figured that most people might think that was taking it too far. Though if that were to happen, mythicals would definitely need some tweaking as the damage procs are part of larger buffs that were they to be removed, would need to be compensated for because of the non-damage/clicky effect procs on other classes mythicals.</p><p>Also let me remind you that I'm just trying to initiate a discussion here. I'm not whining, I'm not "mad". I just think damage procs are taking classes out of context. That's all. And again, the Assassin is the most potent user of damage procs in the game, so if anything this will cripple my class more than any other.</p><p>-Trilli</p>

[Desna]

<p>Tbh though, your class aside, removing all those procs would basically nerf all the available gear in the game...take away those procs and you have very similar stat pieces with very little to actually add to the player. Especially raiding players, since hitting cap on melee crit/DA/haste/healcrit/DPS mod/every flipping stat is so easy on raids. Sure, you raise the stat cap, but critting 100% of the time is 100% of the time, so would only effect STR STA INT WIS AGI (maybe haste and dps) and wouldn't really be worth it with diminishing returns.</p>

[Kendayar]

You went out of your way to point out how rangers can proc off slow weapons and I pointed out a ranger known for that and you replied with a war story about the same ranger. I think I made a valid point there. Point is, what nerfs one class could be a larger nerf to another class. Your assassin may not need those procs, but somebody else's Templar does. And if Assassins are that dangerous with frontload, why not ask to have frontload's effectiveness reduced in PvP? That would limit the proc potency of assassins only, then figure out what other classes need a similar nerf.

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Trilli@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Faenril@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't get why weapon based procs are more acceptable or "skill based" than other gear based procs. Yes everyone wears a weapon, but everyone (well most ppl) wears rings, wrists, shoulders, charms.... you get the point.</p></blockquote><p>Well, I'd be all for removing damage procs off weapons, too. I just figured that most people might think that was taking it too far.</p></blockquote><p>the whole idea is taking it too far... It gives classes without auto attack more damage to proc off of hard work and lots of raiding / instances... whereas melee artists get that extra "proc" in the form of an auto attack every 4 seconds or so...</p><p>if anything, take the gear procs away from scouts Only because they have the poisons AND auto attack already, not to mention FAR FAR FAR more chances to proc the damage off of items because of the fact that 10 seconds with a scout = nearly 20 CA / auto attacks = 20 chances to proc damage from gear... 10 seconds with a mage = 3 or 4 attacks = 3 or 4 chances to proc damage from gear....</p><p> mages = no spell auto attack so the procs supplement that.... but mages actually have to work long and hard to get the procs, whereas scouts / tanks just get it free...</p><p>So of course melee'rs want to take procs out of the game, they get them for free..</p><p>The whole idea is taking it too far... might as well make all armor / jewelry just be Mastercrafted 72.....   work for things = you get an advantage over those who dont... if you want to take all the advantages of people that raid and run instances 40+ hours a week and dumb them down to the casual players that are rolling around in 72 MC... go play a First Person Shooter TBH... they are totally balanced no matter how long you have played the game...</p><p>EQ2 is about rewards for spending time.  Im tired of people complaining about things that others have spent countless hours getting because they are too lazy or inept to get the items themselves.</p>

[Chaosretu]

<p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">I see people with 4-5 procs with over 1000 dmg. That is insane. If they all have 7% proc rate and you have 5 pieces of gear thats like having a 35% proc rate on every attack? Last time I checked my poisons have that proc for half the dmg.</span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff9900;">All armor procs need to be reduced by 75%. I don't like procs being part of PvP. I see them hitting for more then actual CA and spells. Like the life tap procs on armor. Reduce it all. And if your complaining about poisons, fine. Seeing how its a huge portion of a scouts dps. You either give scouts more DPS or make poisons free because any scout will tell you it cost over plat in higher tiers to keep constant strain of poison.</span></strong></p>

[jam3]

<p>you mean these items?</p><p><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/ae3ox/EQ2_000369.jpg" /></p><p><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/ae3ox/EQ2_000370.jpg" width="800" height="556" /></p>

[Orthureon]

<p>Just curious why are casters complaining? I mean I thought most of their weapons they use or their myths have damage procs that trigger off of spell casts, am I incorrect? As for procs off of weapons they should actually make the off-hand not proc, as it currently does. Other than that I think the idea for the most part would be good, however maybe like someone else said lowering the damage on all procs by 75% would be the best solution. Obviously the final percentage would have to be tinkered with.</p><p>Here is another thought, make all procs drain a small portion of power, no more "free" damage for anyone. It would be a percent based off the damage of the proc, the bigger the proc the more power it uses. It kind of evens things out if you think about it. They of course would do the same thing with heal/ward procs. Dispersion and such would have to be a set amount.</p><p>They also have to fix "Toxic Backlash" I have a piece that I always wear because there are so many SKs. But this thing procs off of all incoming procs in PVP. It is funny to see the parse, but it must suck for the opponent that gets hit with it.</p>