Ward of Elements and smartloot

[Kordran]

<p>Now that WoE is having its lockout timer reduced to 3 days, are the smartloot drops being eliminated, reduced or kept as-is? Enquiring minds and all of that...</p>

[Noaani]

<p>If smart loot is kept on in this instance, it needs to be added to all x4 pattern drops.</p><p>Personally, I'd rather see it removed from both, but I doubt that will happen.</p>

[Oxanda]

<p>Aye, remove smart loot from WoE and the 3 day lockout is fine.</p>

[Vraeth]

<p>whats the purpose of smart loot then if they keep removing it from everywhere?</p>

[Freliant]

<p>The zone doesn't have smart-loot as is. Unless you make the item in question it will still drop, and most people that do this zone out of NEED, don't use any of the pieces of WoE until they have 5 pieces. For those keeping count, that is alot of run where the same "pattern" will drop.</p><p>If they really wanted smartloot, they would just make 1 pattern that everyone would use for their respective slot, and that would be it. Being that its not like that, "smartloot" in this zone is just not effective.</p><p>But you know what, I am willing to bet that everyone in this post that said smartloot should be eliminated are Raiders of x4 content. Please, tell me if otherwise.</p>

[Aneova]

<p>TSO does not use smart loot.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TSO does not use smart loot.</p></blockquote><p>Well, that would be wrong.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The zone doesn't have smart-loot as is. Unless you make the item in question it will still drop, and most people that do this zone out of NEED, don't use any of the pieces of WoE until they have 5 pieces. For those keeping count, that is alot of run where the same "pattern" will drop.</p><p>If they really wanted smartloot, they would just make 1 pattern that everyone would use for their respective slot, and that would be it. Being that its not like that, "smartloot" in this zone is just not effective.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think that's a design feature, it's a bug where the smartloot system isn't looking for the mold, just the combined piece; something that I suspect would be easily fixed if they were feeling motivated to do so.</p><p>My question was really more general though. The justfication for the 5 day lockout was that it used a smartloot system (broken or not). Now that it's lockout timer is being reduced, it'd be useful to hear from a dev whether they plan on disabling smartloot or changing the loot tables (i.e.: not all named will drop molds every time, non-mold fabled becomes more rare, etc.)</p><p>Or is SOE's vision that everyone and their brother should be running around in full fabled gear to compliment those free masters that they're going to be getting? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: Just to pre-empt the chorus of casuals here, yes, I'm aware that they need their T2 to get the T3, and that requires running some 70 or so instances.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>WTB new command...</p><p>/claimallWoEfableddropsformyclass</p><p>Really, I can't be bothered having to run all the way to the door to click on it to get my gear...</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>WTB new command...</p><p>/claimallWoEfableddropsformyclass</p><p>Really, I can't be bothered having to run all the way to the door to click on it to get my gear...</p></blockquote><p>I have to wonder if this is part of their grand plan to "close the gap" between casuals and raiders. Just introduce a bunch of cakewalk x2 zones that function as fabled loot vending machines.</p>

[Transen]

<p>Hmmm, 1 master a month per account for the cost of an adept III and waiting....wait for it...one month.  Oh yeah, everyone's gonna be running around in all fabled and master's alright in about oh say, roughly 2 years for 1 toon with no previous master spells.</p><p>And let's see...fabled that people can actually equip from mobs that they actually have to have the ability to kill in the first place in order to see said fabled drop every 3 days so that 2 people (maybe 4...12 if you want to be really optimistic) could actually walk out of there with a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">full set</span> of fabled in about 1 month...</p><p>...Oh yeah, that's real easy mode there. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>PS: I don't count people who buy molds from guilds farming the zone for loot-sells.  If it's trivial enough for them to do the whole zone and sell off the loots then more power to them, but I don't see a reason to sc**w players who still find the zone challenging just because it's trivial to other players.</p>

[bryldan]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If smart loot is kept on in this instance, it needs to be added to all x4 pattern drops.</p><p>Personally, I'd rather see it removed from both, but I doubt that will happen.</p></blockquote><p>I agree i am SO SO SO sick of seeing the shadow patterns its not even funny. I cannot tell you how many pieces of shadow patterns we have sold <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If smart loot is kept on in this instance, it needs to be added to all x4 pattern drops.</p><p>Personally, I'd rather see it removed from both, but I doubt that will happen.</p></blockquote><p>I agree i am SO SO SO sick of seeing the shadow patterns its not even funny. I cannot tell you how many pieces of shadow patterns we have sold <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If the smart loot actually worked it would be one thing, but I'd prefer no smarts over the not-so smarts.</p>

[Tehom]

<p>Smartloot doesn't work so great in WoE anyway, so I don't really think it's a very big deal.</p><p>As for TSO raid zones and smartloot... At this point I think most people who are in higher-end guilds have pretty much hit complete saturation on patterns. While adding in smartloot would have almost no effect on us except for breastplates, I don't think it's a bad idea to reduce burn-out for lower tier raidforces, particularly to help them deal with high turnover. I remember just how frustrating it was to have legs go to alts when we had like 3/4ths of the raid still needing em.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If smart loot is kept on in this instance, it needs to be added to all x4 pattern drops.</p><p>Personally, I'd rather see it removed from both, but I doubt that will happen.</p></blockquote><p>I agree i am SO SO SO sick of seeing the shadow patterns its not even funny. I cannot tell you how many pieces of shadow patterns we have sold <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>On the plus side, with the level cap increase I'll be able to box farm this zone for T9 transmute fodder twice a week now.</p>

[Freliant]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bryldan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If smart loot is kept on in this instance, it needs to be added to all x4 pattern drops.</p><p>Personally, I'd rather see it removed from both, but I doubt that will happen.</p></blockquote><p>I agree i am SO SO SO sick of seeing the shadow patterns its not even funny. I cannot tell you how many pieces of shadow patterns we have sold <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>On the plus side, with the level cap increase I'll be able to box farm this zone for T9 transmute fodder twice a week now.</p></blockquote><p>Don't forget Kurn's Tower x2... thats 4 zones a weeks with 36 fabled drops total if you kill all the mobs... Not to mention the insane amounts of plat that you will get from the kills.</p><p>I believe you are being overly optimistic in being able to do this zone at level 90 while boxed.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I believe you are being overly optimistic in being able to do this zone at level 90 while boxed.</blockquote><p>I can already do the first named in WoE.</p><p>Edit: Guardian, Templar, Mystic, Dirge, Illusionist and wizard, all mythicaled and either fully fabled or close to it. Fun times tbh...</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I believe you are being overly optimistic in being able to do this zone at level 90 while boxed.</blockquote><p>I can already do the first named in WoE.</p><p>Edit: Guardian, Templar, Mystic, Dirge, Illusionist and wizard, all mythicaled and either fully fabled or close to it. Fun times tbh...</p></blockquote><p>I can invision single grouping most of the zone in t9 for sure.  Some of it is easy to single group now.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>The real time sink for tier 3 armour is the shards not the 5 day lockout. Although the 3 day lockout is cool it makes fidning people who are not locked out easier.</p><p>Most raiders dont worry about shards because well frankly raids should of never dropped them.  The current raids drop WAY WAY to many shards. Litterally everyone in my guild has stacks of shards. Even after equiping thier alts on the same account with tier 3 void armour. Dropping shards in raids was CLEARLY soe caving into raiders who were to freakin lazy to do 20 heroic zones in a year's time to get thier teir 4 armour.</p><p>The fact is shards should of been removed from raids, the grey zone exploit should be fixed and if people want to get tier 3 void armour they would have to earn it. Right now it is still relatively long for a NON-raider who just does heroic instances to fully gear themselves in tier 3 armour.</p>

[Lleren]

<p>Glad to hear the timer is being reduced. </p><p>Agree thats the"smart loot" isn't so smart.  Unless we are supposed to perhaps get both sets for everyone, and that would require getting a second set of t2 shard gear...</p>

[MonkeyBob]

I agree that the smart-loot in WoE is [Removed for Content]'d. I have been running WoE Every week since it came out with a set 12 people. We have a couple of people as backups if the mains can't make it. I (and a couple of others in the raid) still only have 3 pieces of T3. Why? Here is why. Some people in our regular group have T4 gear. So they refuse to roll on the gear that is worse than what they have. Fair enough. Some people have decided that they only want one of the 2 sets available for the class. So they refuse to roll on the gear that they dont want. Fair enough. What this means for me though, is that the same [Removed for Content] gear drops every freaking week and never the pieces that I am missing. And the people who the zone drops the gear for dont want it, so it goes to alts. It starting to wear a bit thin that we have been so many times and I still dont have the boots... and the boots drop from one of the easiest mobs in the zone... It means that we have alts with almost full sets of hybrid gear while some mains in the raid only have 3 pieces. Grrrr makes me want to pull my hair out honestly... Still, I guess at least some of the raiders are getting their gear. Its better than completely random drops... or is it?

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The zone doesn't have smart-loot as is. Unless you make the item in question it will still drop, and most people that do this zone out of NEED, don't use any of the pieces of WoE until they have 5 pieces. For those keeping count, that is alot of run where the same "pattern" will drop.</p></blockquote><p>I was a little surprised that they yielded to pressure and made it a 3 day lockout.</p><p>But it is not like Kunark or TSO where there are 6 patterns x 7 slots (42 total patterns) and folks are running them forever trying to get them to drop.</p><p>WoE has what? 4 patterns + 1 hybrid pattern for each of 6 slots (30 patterns). Plus the bracers which drop off the boss, although to be honest if you can get the boss, there is no reason you cannot get the T4 bracers in ToMC. PLUS, the water dude Khost Alur sometimes drops 2 patterns.</p><p>So between the difference in # of unique patterns, plus the fact that tons of people are hanging onto molds until they can have 3 made in 1 sitting, frankly most folks wouldn't even notice if they turned off smart loot in WoE.</p>

[Vraeth]

<p>dont go to woe with ppl who dont take loot just because they dont want it. if they cant do that for the team they dont belong to it.</p><p>every named has a chance to drop 2 molds but then the 2nd one is the hybrid one.</p><p>so smart loot works fine if you play by the rules</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>dont go to woe with ppl who dont take loot just because they dont want it. if they cant do that for the team they dont belong to it.</p><p>every named has a chance to drop 2 molds but then the 2nd one is the hybrid one.</p><p>so smart loot works fine if you play by the rules</p></blockquote><p>So you want everyone to break their set bonuses and be worse at tanking, healing, and dpsing after getting said 'upgraded' loot?</p><p>I will wait until I have 3 pieces and so are most people.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>dont go to woe with ppl who dont take loot just because they dont want it. if they cant do that for the team they dont belong to it.</p><p>every named has a chance to drop 2 molds but then the 2nd one is the hybrid one.</p><p>so smart loot works fine if you play by the rules</p></blockquote><p>So you want everyone to break their set bonuses and be worse at tanking, healing, and dpsing after getting said 'upgraded' loot?</p><p>I will wait until I have 3 pieces and so are most people.</p></blockquote><p>Of course, if every member of your team doesn't want to burn 180+ shards for gear they wont wear, they just suck and don't belong on your team...</p><p>Or, the smart loot needs tweaking.</p><p>One of those statements is reasonabe, I'll allow you guys to discern which...</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vraeth@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>dont go to woe with ppl who dont take loot just because they dont want it. if they cant do that for the team they dont belong to it.</p><p>every named has a chance to drop 2 molds but then the 2nd one is the hybrid one.</p><p>so smart loot works fine if you play by the rules</p></blockquote><p>So you want everyone to break their set bonuses and be worse at tanking, healing, and dpsing after getting said 'upgraded' loot?</p><p>I will wait until I have 3 pieces and so are most people.</p></blockquote><p>Of course, if every member of your team doesn't want to burn 180+ shards for gear they wont wear, they just suck and don't belong on your team...</p><p>Or, the smart loot needs tweaking.</p><p>One of those statements is reasonabe, I'll allow you guys to discern which...</p></blockquote><p>Having smart loot identify the patterns in your inventory and adjust the drops accordingly seems like such a basic, simple, logical concept I almost feel insulted that they haven't even offered a reason for not doing it.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having smart loot identify the patterns in your inventory and adjust the drops accordingly seems like such a basic, simple, logical concept I almost feel insulted that they haven't even offered a reason for not doing it.</p></blockquote><p>Changing smart loot code requires developer time.</p><p>Changing zone lockout timer requries someone to edit one xml file and change a 5 to a 3.</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having smart loot identify the patterns in your inventory and adjust the drops accordingly seems like such a basic, simple, logical concept I almost feel insulted that they haven't even offered a reason for not doing it.</p></blockquote><p>Changing smart loot code requires developer time.</p><p>Changing zone lockout timer requries someone to edit one xml file and change a 5 to a 3.</p></blockquote><p>Your answer's great, however it would seem like a minimal effort to add checks for 1 additional item, and they still haven't offered a reason for not doing it.</p><p>Wonder if it would take longer than, say, changing how/when the set bonuses were applied to Fighter sets.</p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having smart loot identify the patterns in your inventory and adjust the drops accordingly seems like such a basic, simple, logical concept I almost feel insulted that they haven't even offered a reason for not doing it.</p></blockquote><p>Changing smart loot code requires developer time.</p><p>Changing zone lockout timer requries someone to edit one xml file and change a 5 to a 3.</p></blockquote><p>Your answer's great, however it would seem like a minimal effort to add checks for 1 additional item, and they still haven't offered a reason for not doing it.</p><p>Wonder if it would take longer than, say, changing how/when the set bonuses were applied to Fighter sets.</p></blockquote><p>A dev touched on this already, theirs a problem with the code checking for multiple <span style="color: #ff0000;">types </span>of items against smartloot as it would have to check for the pattern the mold and the item</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>A dev touched on this already, theirs a problem with the code checking for multiple <span style="color: #ff0000;">types </span>of items against smartloot as it would have to check for the pattern the mold and the item</blockquote><p>It does this with the VP sets, so I'd like to see a link.</p>

[thecynic315]

<p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having smart loot identify the patterns in your inventory and adjust the drops accordingly seems like such a basic, simple, logical concept I almost feel insulted that they haven't even offered a reason for not doing it.</p></blockquote><p>Changing smart loot code requires developer time.</p><p>Changing zone lockout timer requries someone to edit one xml file and change a 5 to a 3.</p></blockquote><p>Your answer's great, however it would seem like a minimal effort to add checks for 1 additional item, and they still haven't offered a reason for not doing it.</p><p>Wonder if it would take longer than, say, changing how/when the set bonuses were applied to Fighter sets.</p></blockquote><p>A dev touched on this already, theirs a problem with the code checking for multiple <span style="color: #ff0000;">types </span>of items against smartloot as it would have to check for the pattern the mold and the item</p></blockquote><p>for(1,12){</p><p>if(Character.Flag.WoE.Patern = 1 || item_patern = 1 || item_equipment = 1 || item_Mage_Helm = 1){</p><p>Character.Flag.WoE.Patern = 1;</p><p>remove_from_drop(Pattern_type_x);</p><p>}</p><p>else{</p><p>Character.Flag.WoE.Patern = 0;</p><p>add_to_drop_pattern_type_x;</p><p>}</p><p>}</p><p>yeah that was hard to code alright. SOE you have my address so please just send the release form and payment there.</p>

[revren]

<p>Hey Hey</p><p>I would also like to add that the smart loot, does not seem to count the mage helm if you have added the circlet to it. </p><p>There are alot of issues with smart loot in this zone, and i do not see what the big deal on making the timer shorter, For the people that can breeze threw the zone and for the most part and do not  need the patterns  , why do you care so much? In 6 months it will be vender/muter trash.</p><p>  Any thing that gets more people into grouping, and raiding is a good thing.</p><p>Welcome Home</p><p>Rev</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>revren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There are alot of issues with smart loot in this zone, and i do not see what the big deal on making the timer shorter, For the people that can breeze threw the zone and for the most part and do not  need the patterns  , why do you care so much? In 6 months it will be vender/muter trash.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, there are multiple issues, and really an array of possible exclusions for each pattern type.</p><p>I can understand not wanting to modify the base code functions as they apply to many different zones to add in checking at this level to solve an issue that exists for only a small portion of the code smartloot affects.</p><p>I imagine these functions are also much more complex as they have to check banks, inventory, houses, equipment, broker, etc, etc.</p><p>I certainly understand you may 1) recognize there is a problem 2) recognize the problem isn't big enough to warrant dedicated resources to change code base 3) recognizing you don't have the assets to deploy for the ideal sollution 4) recognizing an alternate zero effort sollution is good enough for _today_.</p><p>I appreciate that they've listened to our feedback, weighed the issue, and found a reasonable compromise.  They certainly were not obligated to do any of that.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>A dev touched on this already, theirs a problem with the code checking for multiple <span style="color: #ff0000;">types </span>of items against smartloot as it would have to check for the pattern the mold and the item</blockquote><p>It does this with the VP sets, so I'd like to see a link.</p></blockquote><p>Players can just hang on to the mold, or use the mold to create a pattern and just hang on to the pattern, or use the pattern to create the item. In other words, maybe the smartloot system isn't "smart" enough to go that deep, looking for something that creates something that's used to create something else.</p><p>Although it's a different issue, the whole system they have there is needlessly complex, but I guess it's because the way their merchants work, they don't know how to take two items (plus coin) as payment for something. So they had to split the process across two NPCs. The side-effect being that the smartloot system apparently doesn't know how to deal with it all appropriately.</p><p>Personally, I'm fine with the 3 day lockout change, they should just eliminate the so-called smartloot and have it drop whatever molds and other loot.</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>A dev touched on this already, theirs a problem with the code checking for multiple <span style="color: #ff0000;">types </span>of items against smartloot as it would have to check for the pattern the mold and the item</blockquote><p>It does this with the VP sets, so I'd like to see a link.</p></blockquote><p>Players can just hang on to the mold, or use the mold to create a pattern and just hang on to the pattern, or use the pattern to create the item. In other words, maybe the smartloot system isn't "smart" enough to go that deep, looking for something that creates something that's used to create something else.</p><p>Although it's a different issue, the whole system they have there is needlessly complex, but I guess it's because the way their merchants work, they don't know how to take two items (plus coin) as payment for something. So they had to split the process across two NPCs. The side-effect being that the smartloot system apparently doesn't know how to deal with it all appropriately.</p><p>Personally, I'm fine with the 3 day lockout change, they should just eliminate the so-called smartloot and have it drop whatever molds and other loot.</p></blockquote><p>So basically ... it can do it with VP patterns because that's only 2 "layers". This is 3 layers, which is [inexplicably] impossible.</p>