List of Templar class issues [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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CuCullain

06-05-2009, 02:19 AM

Considering our current stickied list is about as up to date as the average stray dogs shots and that we now have a brand new "more visible" location for the class threads, I figured I'd take a leap and throw up a list of current Templar class issues. I will try to refrain from "wish list" type items and stick with what I consider inadequate and broken things. I will update this based on what others say and add/adjust/remove things as needed.Standard SpellsDivine Arbitration: The amount of health lost when redivided is way to severe even at master level. With AoEs as common as they are it makes it more likely you will kill your whole group and not save 1 person by casting this. This fact alone dissuades the majority of Templars from even having this spell on their hotbars. Considering this spell was added to our Shadows line, it is worth looking at now to make it worth having.Fix: You could go two ways with this spell. 1. Decrease the current loss of the top by 75% OR Change it so it still uses it's current loss amount BUT it fills your current target to full before distributing the rest to the remaining members of the group.Focused Intervention: The amount the reactives heal for is to low to make this spell worth using. Most mobs hit for far more than this heals for and if you are using it the likely reason is you are out of mana and are desperate. In effect it simply becomes a slow down and watch the tank die a little later spell.Fix: Either increase the amount healed or add some additional benefit to using the spell such as +10% mana to caster at expiration or an automatic death ward if target dies while the spell is on him.Cure: In it's current form it gives the caster no option of leaving one type of debuff on the target while removing another. In some fights you want to only remove certain debuffs while leaving up others yet that is now impossible when using Cure.Fix: Add an option to disable curing of particular types of debuffs. (e.g. you right click your cure spell and a little window opens where you can toggle off one or more types of debuffs OR make it part of a macro option).Smite Corruption: The wisdom reduction is to low to make much of a difference in any particular fight, especially raids. Though this was originally an adventure pack bonus spell, the fact that it was upgraded and made part of an AA line necessitates that it be kept relevant.Fix: Increase the wisdom debuff to 180, maybe even slightly increase the damage output from it.Forgiving Salvation: The amount of health restored is to low, especially in raid settings, 1700 health is less than 10% of a decently geared MT.Fix: Change the amount healed to "25% of the targets current maximum health".Odyssey: Spell should be updated to evolve more closely with game progression since it's creation.Fix: Once cast give the target the option of their normal bind point or their guild hall.AAs ShadowsSacrifice: No matter how much or how little the target of this spell is healed, the Cleric is reduced to around 5% of his total health. Even if the person is at 100% health you still loose all of yours except 5%.Fix: Have the spell only reduce the Cleric's health the amount healed, up to 95% of the Clerics total health - his current missing health. (e.g. Cleric accidentally hits sacrifice while targeting Guardian at 100% health, no health removed form Cleric).Focused Prayers: The stance does not follow the standard of ALL other healer class stances. All other healers have a third benefit to their healing stance, Templars do not. In addition the penalty to casting speed in this stance affects two of the templars debuffs which are used to generate healing.Fix: Add a third benefit to this stance on par with the other healing classes, +casting speed or an increase to the heal amount of the two heal procing debuffs are good examples. Also remove casting speed penalty to the mark and Involuntary gift spell lines.Peaceful Aggression: The stance makes healing overly difficult. The idea is certainly to reduce healing output, but the current penalties make it overly difficult to heal.Fix: Reduce the casting speed penalty to heal spells form 30% down to 10%. TemplarMana Cure: As it is now the spell is very inconsistent. If that one person casts the right kind of spell after you get a debuff of the same type it might cure it. That is a lot of variables which in the end equals hardly ever.Fix: First idea would be to simply make it always cure IF the person happens to cast the right type of spell when you get a debuff. As it is even then the spell would likely have to not be resisted to even work then. A better idea would be to leave it as is but give it a chance to cure uncurable debuffs instead. The fact is this is an endline ability and should be better.Blessings: This spells sole purpose is to increase the proc rate of gear, it does nothing else. In GU52 changes where made across the entire game to reduce the effect of +heal/dmg and +crit to all gear. However in addition many items suddenly no longer benefited from Blessings. Fix: Modify what is necessary so that blessings goes back to affecting all/most gear again. Blessings is an end AA ability that is, in many people's opinions, the ONLY end AA worth taking in the Templar AA tree. Before the changes to procs was made, blessings was decent at best and hardly over powered. If this can not be corrected for whatever reason there needs to be a change to the ability to make it worth using.Cure X: The amount the reactive actually triggers for is very low. The description states that the heal amount will come close to our current Bestowal of Vitae spell at max ranks.Fix: increase the heal amount to 80% of our current Bestowal of Vitae spell, currently "Vital intercession" which is around 1000-1200 healed +/-, so 800-960 +/-. Smite Wrath: Is supposed to only be disabled from beneficial spells being cast, but is disabled by other spells/items also.Fix: The following actions should not cause 'Disable Smite Wrath" to proc; (This is only a partial list)<ul><li>Planting a Training Dummy</li><li>Casting Unflinching Hammer</li><li>Using a Manastone or Vessel of Fyr'un</li><li>Using any potion, especially something like Clarity or a stat potion, but even one that heals.</li><li>Casting Yaulp</li><li>Casting any of the Litany of combat spells</li><li>Enabling our "DPS" stance</li><li>Summoning a mount</li><li>Casting Water Breathing</li><li>Summoning our Deity Pet</li><li>Using a Totem such as totem of the chameleon</li><li>Summoning an attack pet from an item such as "Fright and Dread" from "The Shard of Fear"</li><li>Using a Cloak of the Harvester</li><li>Using the Earing of Void Channeling</li><li>Using the "Fragment of the Eternal Prism" quest item</li></ul>ClericShield Ally: Is supposed to use the Cleric's avoidance to make the check but does not take into account any avoidance bonus to avoidance from Agility when doing so.Fix: Make the avoidance check use all of the Cleric's avoidance, not just some.Class IssuesAvoidance: years back tanks where doing raids in cloth because of the nice avoidance increase it gave made tanking easier. The developers made a change to base avoidance so that you where given an amount based on what armor you "could" wear, not what armor you did wear. Plate classes get a flat 0% base avoidance bonus no matter what they where. As a plate class Templars also where affected by this change. The problem that occurred however was that unlike the plate tanks, Templars have no other skills to increase their avoidance so they where more severley affected by this change than any of the tank classes. Fix: Give Clerics a +5% to +10% base avoidance bonus to help compensate for this.INT as the Crit mitigation stat: Intelligence is one of the lowest stats for Templars. The vast majority of our gear does not have INT bonuses, nor do we benefit much from having a high INT even if it was achieved (in traditional roles). Fighters and Rogues use AGI a stat that they have on a lot of their gear and a stat that they benefit greatly from beyond Critical mitigation. Casters and Healers use INT a stat that ALL casters have on lots of their gear and all benefit from in other ways also. So in the end Templars as well as all other healing classes, except maybe Fury, are the only classes to have their critical mitigation stat not found on most of their gear, nor a stat that is highly sought after for other uses by their class.Fix: Change healer Critical mitigation bonus to Wisdom.Wisdom as the primary stat: Healer gear is based on Wisdom as the primary stat yet wisdom does very little for us as a class. All other classes primary stat(s) increase their primary functions the higher it gets. Wisdom only increase our power pool and resists vs magic.Fix: Have WIS affect heals like INT affects nukes.<hr />edit: 6/24/09: Added issue with Blessings

Hopefulne

06-05-2009, 05:14 AM

Overwhelming Arms - Need to check your info. With 5 AA's this has a 30% chance to proc a 15 second buff. Buff has 20% chance to proc a flurry. With a little haste a 4 second delay weapon seems to be up 75%+ of the time, although it is lower against yellow con and higherForgiving Salvation - I agree the HP heal is LOW. It would be better if it was kept an HP amount rather than a %. (buffage from + heal/crits etc)

ashen1973

06-05-2009, 05:20 AM

Great list, I completely agree with everything on it, thanks for taking the time to make it.i particularly think attention should be bought to Focused Prayers. As the final ability from the TSO tree, this should be an ability that has more effect that any other gained from AA.All other classes seem to have an ability of greater performance here.I have tested this many,many times, and the extra healing boost from this ability is so low as to be worthless and the drop in DPS we get is way out of whack with the positive effect.

Zapo

06-05-2009, 06:05 AM

Very nice list, although I don't agree with all them I definately hope some developer has a look at it. But when was the last time we had a developer reply in this sub forum ?Anyway, from my point of view I would be already a very happy templar if they fixed/improved Sacrifice, Focused Prayers and maybe Focused Intervention, Peaceful Agression and Smite Wrath.Standard SpellsDivine Arbitration: imo this spell is fine as an emergency heal. Never managed too kill my group with it. Could have a shorter reuse time. I know you can shorten the reuse time by AA but there are better ways to spend your AA's on.Focused InterventionAgreed. Next to worthless spell nowadays. Needs upgrade.CureI have no issues how cure works. But I might be wrong, haven't seen all raid content yet. Concerning heroic/solo content I see no issue.Smite Corruption:Agreed but nice to have. Even a greater wisdom debuff won't make this spell overpowered.Forgiving Salvation:Agreed but nice to have. The important part of this spell is the death prevent which works.Odyssey:Only a nice to have.AAsSacrificeAgreed. This one really needs a fix. Since fix/nerf I rarely use this anymore.Focused PrayersAgreed. Our healing stance is subpar to all other healers and considering that dps nowadays is so important next to useless as the heal boost is too low compared to the lost dps. Too weak for an end AA.Peaceful AggressionAgreed. A lesser decrease in our healing abilities would be nice and still wouldn't make this AA overpowered.Overwhelming ArmsI have no issue with that one.Mana Cure:Agreed. Mana Cure is not really reliable and it doesn't really make a difference if u have it or not. But an improvement would be a nice to have.Cure X:It doesn't really heal for a lot yes (less than 1% of complete heal). A litte improvement on the heal would be a nice to have.Smite Wrath:Agreed. Those are bugs. Needs fixing. Shield Ally:Sorry, I disagree. This would make it too overpowered.Class IssuesAvoidance:For group/raid I don't really care that much about avoidance. Would be nice for solo and pvp though. Nice to have.INT as the Crit mitigation stat:Agreed, would be nice to have WIS a crit mit stat. But I am not sure if that would be too overpowered.Wisdom as the primary stat:Disagree. Although nice that would be too overpowered and hard to balance. Wisdom effects our reactive spells if you have the mythical. I think that is sufficient.

CuCullain

06-05-2009, 09:10 AM

<cite>Rickenbacker@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Overwhelming Arms - Need to check your info. With 5 AA's this has a 30% chance to proc a 15 second buff. Buff has 20% chance to proc a flurry. With a little haste a 4 second delay weapon seems to be up 75%+ of the time, although it is lower against yellow con and higherForgiving Salvation - I agree the HP heal is LOW. It would be better if it was kept an HP amount rather than a %. (buffage from + heal/crits etc)</blockquote>Good point, I didn't take into account that I was looking at the 1/5 version, will remove.

CuCullain

06-05-2009, 09:18 AM

<cite>Anthur@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Standard SpellsCureI have no issues how cure works. But I might be wrong, haven't seen all raid content yet. Concerning heroic/solo content I see no issue.Smite Corruption:Agreed but nice to have. Even a greater wisdom debuff won't make this spell overpowered.</blockquote>Not going to respond to all points, just a couple things.Cure: Off the top of my head there is the cow fight in Guk and the boss fight in that same zone.Smite Corruption: 180 sounds high, but Wisdom for mobs is really a joke stat. Roughly speaking it would equate to a 200pt reduction in their magic resists and some power pool reduction. The power pool reduction is moot as hardly any mobs even drain 10% of their power in a fight, raid mobs seem to never loose power. Even fewer mobs even use power to do things, include cast spells. As far as resists go, 200, heck even 500 is hardly a reduction to the average mobs resists.

Sprin

06-05-2009, 01:14 PM

<cite><a href="mailto:Faush@Antonia">Faush@Antonia</a> Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cure: In it's current form it gives the caster no option of leaving one type of debuff on the target while removing another. In some fights you want to only remove certain debuffs while leaving up others yet that is now impossible when using Cure.Fix: Add an option to disable curing of particular types of debuffs. (e.g. you right click your cure spell and a little window opens where you can toggle off one or more types of debuffs OR make it part of a macro option).This is what it was before they gave us the Cure All hotkey... VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY few cases where you dont want all the type of effects cured off you, and when there is one that you dont need cured, the others arent "game breaking" to leave on. really no sense in bringing back the big row of 4 to try and figure out which ones you needed to spam in the blink of an eye.Odyssey: Spell should be updated to evolve more closely with game progression since it's creation.Fix: Once cast give the target the option of their normal bind point or their guild hall.Good idea here... this spell needs adjusting. A lower cast time and less power usage would be another boost. Nothing crazy fast, just a little long imhoAAs ShadowsSacrifice: No matter how much or how little the target of this spell is healed, the Cleric is reduced to around 5% of his total health. Even if the person is at 100% health you still loose all of yours except 5%.Fix: Have the spell only reduce the Cleric's health the amount healed, up to 95% of the Clerics total health - his current missing health. (e.g. Cleric accidentally hits sacrifice while targeting Guardian at 100% health, no health removed form Cleric).This spell sounds an awefull lot like Manaward on a Coercer. The only difference is the coercers POWER is drained to 5% and a ward equivalent to 1 point of ward for every 1.5 points of power drained. This sounds like an excelent start to fix this spell, where a ward is applied, or even a reactive that lasts for 30 seconds that has the equivalent to 1 point of reactive heal / ward for every 1.5 poitns of your health used. So instead of power like a coercer, it just uses your health, but provides a ward / reactive instead of just a straight heal. IE: you have 10k health, 95 percent of that is 9500, so the reactive heal amount / ward (30 second duration or 20 or something) would be 6300ish... Keeping the 95% health drain needs to be left in there. Afterall, it needs to be detrimental to the templar, or it wouldnt be a "sacrifice" so just transfering their health to full and yours down just a bit, is not much of a sacrifice... I think what i suggested above is a great alternative, you still sacrifice your health but its worth while..I would imagine that a 1/1.5 ratio is smaller than what it is currently on sacrifice for the straight heal, but you really cant have both IMHO. That would be too OP to give a ward / reactive equal to 95 percent of your own health.... Peaceful Aggression: The stance makes healing overly difficult. The idea is certainly to reduce healing output, but the current penalties make it overly difficult to heal.Fix: Reduce the casting speed penalty to heal spells form 30% down to 10%. Does anyone seriously use this stance on templar? Should a templar be DPS'n? Is it even worthwhile for a templar to DPS?TemplarSmite Wrath: Is supposed to only be disabled from beneficial spells being cast, but is disabled by other spells/items also.Fix: The following actions should not cause 'Disable Smite Wrath" to proc; (This is only a partial list)<ul><li>Planting a Training Dummy</li><li>Casting Unflinching Hammer This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using a Manastone or Vessel of Fyr'un This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using any potion, especially something like Clarity or a stat potion, but even one that heals. This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting Yaulp This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting any of the Litany of combat spells This IS Beneficial</li><li>Enabling our "DPS" stance This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning a mount This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting Water Breathing This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning our Deity Pet This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using a Totem such as totem of the chameleon This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning an attack pet from an item such as "Fright and Dread" from "The Shard of Fear" </li><li>Using a Cloak of the Harvester This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using the Earing of Void Channeling Why are you casting this after the fight has started? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></li><li>Using the "Fragment of the Eternal Prism" quest item</li></ul>I think you are under the impression that a beneficial spell is just a heal.. but anything that boosts your stats, boosts others stats, applys a temporary reactive damage to your spells, power increases, power / heal distribution spells etc, removes an effect, etc. etc. etc... anything that gives you more of an advantage then you already have at that moment is "beneficial"Wisdom as the primary stat: Healer gear is based on Wisdom as the primary stat yet wisdom does very little for us as a class. All other classes primary stat(s) increase their primary functions the higher it gets. Wisdom only increase our power pool and resists vs magic.Fix: Have WIS affect heals like INT affects nukes.I agree with this to an extent, however, look at primary stat for Scouts.. STR, to hit hard... increases their CA damage, but the only other thing it does is allow them to carry a bunch of empty boxes in their bags. So in that sense, WIS giving healers more CAPACITY to heal because of extra power + higher heals seems a bit much. That being said though.... on the flip side, like you said, Mages INT gives them MORE power and HARDER hits... so they can use more attacks because of more power AND those attacks hit harder because of high INT. I think SOE figures that healers also do some damage, so to give them a modifier for damage (INT) and ALSO give a modifier for heals (WIS) would be too much.. I would propose maybe seeing the stances take this into effect.. where if you want to be in a Heal stance, your WIS would effect your heal amounts but your INT wouldnt effect your damage... and if your in Offensive stance, your INT would effect yoru damage, but your WIS wouldnt effect your heals. If your not in either stance, then they would both effect both, but to a lesser degree then you see from mages / scouts etc...</blockquote>Keep i mind i dont have a Templar, i have a low inquisitor, but i know the game very well and commented on just the things i see from having played every archtype at end game....

CuCullain

06-05-2009, 02:06 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a href="mailto:Faush@Antonia">Faush@Antonia</a> Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cure: This is what it was before they gave us the Cure All hotkey... VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY few cases where you dont want all the type of effects cured off you, and when there is one that you dont need cured, the others arent "game breaking" to leave on. really no sense in bringing back the big row of 4 to try and figure out which ones you needed to spam in the blink of an eye.Certainly would not want the old buttons back, just an option to temporarily turn off the curign of a particular tpye when needed.AAs ShadowsSacrifice: . The only difference is the coercers POWER is drained to 5% and a ward equivalent to 1 point of ward for every 1.5 points of power drained. This sounds like an excelent start to fix this spell, where a ward is applied, or even a reactive that lasts for 30 seconds that has the equivalent to 1 point of reactive heal / ward for every 1.5 poitns of your health used. So instead of power like a coercer, it just uses your health, but provides a ward / reactive instead of just a straight heal. IE: you have 10k health, 95 percent of that is 9500, so the reactive heal amount / ward (30 second duration or 20 or something) would be 6300ish... Keeping the 95% health drain needs to be left in there. Afterall, it needs to be detrimental to the templar, or it wouldnt be a "sacrifice" so just transfering their health to full and yours down just a bit, is not much of a sacrifice... I think what i suggested above is a great alternative, you still sacrifice your health but its worth while..I would imagine that a 1/1.5 ratio is smaller than what it is currently on sacrifice for the straight heal, but you really cant have both IMHO. That would be too OP to give a ward / reactive equal to 95 percent of your own health.... An important distinction must be noted when comparing this spell to Manaward and Mana Sacrifice. Sacrifice is a single shot heal not a ward. A ward lasts a duration and though not all used at once it can be used up in that time limit. Sacrifice being a single heal is used all or partially from go, not later on. So if you dump 95% of your HP (about 13.3k for me in a raid) on a tank who has only 5k damage, that extra 8.3k HP goes into dust and is wasted. So why the hell would anyone dump 95% of their health into a person with 5k damage? Assuming you are not solo healing in a grp with no other class capable of healing, the odds are very good that another person might land a heal before you hit your sacrifice and in turn take a tank on the verge of death to 75% health and you to almost dead for little benefit. It does happen and it happens a lot.Peaceful Aggression: Does anyone seriously use this stance on templar? Should a templar be DPS'n? Is it even worthwhile for a templar to DPS?Yes plenty of us use it, soloing as a Templar is painful enough, this at least helps us. TemplarSmite Wrath: Is supposed to only be disabled from beneficial spells being cast, but is disabled by other spells/items also.Fix: The following actions should not cause 'Disable Smite Wrath" to proc; (This is only a partial list)<ul><li>Planting a Training Dummy</li><li>Casting Unflinching Hammer This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using a Manastone or Vessel of Fyr'un This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using any potion, especially something like Clarity or a stat potion, but even one that heals. This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting Yaulp This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting any of the Litany of combat spells This IS Beneficial</li><li>Enabling our "DPS" stance This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning a mount This IS Beneficial</li><li>Casting Water Breathing This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning our Deity Pet This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using a Totem such as totem of the chameleon This IS Beneficial</li><li>Summoning an attack pet from an item such as "Fright and Dread" from "The Shard of Fear" </li><li>Using a Cloak of the Harvester This IS Beneficial</li><li>Using the Earing of Void Channeling Why are you casting this after the fight has started? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></li><li>Using the "Fragment of the Eternal Prism" quest item</li></ul>I think you are under the impression that a beneficial spell is just a heal.. but anything that boosts your stats, boosts others stats, applys a temporary reactive damage to your spells, power increases, power / heal distribution spells etc, removes an effect, etc. etc. etc... anything that gives you more of an advantage then you already have at that moment is "beneficial"We could argue semantics but lets not. To properly understand the reason this should not be the way it is you have to look at intent.The obvious intent to having this ability turn off for 6 seconds is to prevent a Templar from healing while also DPSing with the bonus. Any spell that does not either increase protection or heal our damage should not negate an ability designed to increase our damage. In addition potions and items are not spells being cast by the templar they are equipment being used and as such should not trigger anything including other procs based on spells cast, just as they don't cause curses to go off based on spells beign cast.Wisdom as the primary stat: I agree with this to an extent, however, look at primary stat for Scouts.. STR, to hit hard... increases their CA damage, but the only other thing it does is allow them to carry a bunch of empty boxes in their bags. So in that sense, WIS giving healers more CAPACITY to heal because of extra power + higher heals seems a bit much. That being said though.... on the flip side, like you said, Mages INT gives them MORE power and HARDER hits... so they can use more attacks because of more power AND those attacks hit harder because of high INT. I think SOE figures that healers also do some damage, so to give them a modifier for damage (INT) and ALSO give a modifier for heals (WIS) would be too much.. I would propose maybe seeing the stances take this into effect.. where if you want to be in a Heal stance, your WIS would effect your heal amounts but your INT wouldnt effect your damage... and if your in Offensive stance, your INT would effect yoru damage, but your WIS wouldnt effect your heals. If your not in either stance, then they would both effect both, but to a lesser degree then you see from mages / scouts etc... The stance idea is a good on</blockquote>Keep i mind i dont have a Templar, i have a low inquisitor, but i know the game very well and commented on just the things i see from having played every archtype at end game....</blockquote>

Caethre

06-05-2009, 03:19 PM

(( The appearence of this thread has given me the kick up the behind I needed to actually update the stickied thread of Templar class issues. It is heavily based on feedback given on this thread. In addition to the discussions taking place on this thread, raising the profile of the most important and least controversial of these issues on the stickied Balance Issues thread certainly can't do any harm. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ))

EQPrime

06-05-2009, 03:40 PM

<blockquote>Standard SpellsDivine Arbitration: I haven't had a problem with this killing the group. What I would like to see changed is that it use % instead of raw HP numbers. For example if the group average health of group members is 80% then it should put everyone at 80%. The way it works now is it will say the average hp in the group is say 15k so it puts everyone green except the tank who ends up yellow.Focused Intervention: My fix for this would to be to remove the stun component or offer the chance to remove it as part of an AA. Maybe our underpowered heal stance could give this as the third benefit?Cure: I've found so few occasions I'd use this is that I wouldn't really worry about it. The only time I've ever wanted it is on the cow in Guk Outer. For the boss you can still cure the arcane with your group cure and leave the nox on the people damaging him.Smite Corruption: Yes, beef up the wis reduction or something. This spell is terrible.Forgiving Salvation:25% might be a bit much, but I'd like to see it heal for a bit more.Odyssey:I like your suggestion. AAs ShadowsSacrifice: I'd like to see them fix this so it only sacrifices the amount we actually heal but I believe the devs have claimed the game mechanics will not let them do that so it's probably not an easy fix. Still it's something they should address.Focused Prayers: The stance does not follow the standard of ALL other healer class stances. All other healers have a third benefit to their healing stance, Templars do not. In addition the penalty to casting speed in this stance affects two of the templars debuffs which are used to generate healing.Fix: Add a third benefit to this stance on par with the other healing classes, +casting speed or an increase to the heal amount of the two heal procing debuffs are good examples. Also remove casting speed penalty to the mark and Involuntary gift spell lines.Agreed. Our heal stance is junk!Peaceful Aggression: It does make it difficult to use this stance when any serious amount of healing is required. I find the negative effects a bit too harsh. A small change to the casting reduction would help.Templar Mana Cure:Another way this could be improved would be if mana cure didn't look at the type of spell cast to trigger it as heat, mental, etc, but rather as elemental, arcane, or noxious and cure all arcane, elemental, or noxious effects rather than just the specific damage type.Cure X: I'd almost call this a bug as it certainly doesn't do what its description states. It doesn't come close to healing for what our current level of bestowal of vitae heals for. Needs to be fixed.Smite Wrath: It doesn't really bother me but they could at least fix it so item clicky effects and potions don't trigger this.ClericShield Ally: I disagree. This ability is already excellent. None of the fighter avoidance buffs take into account the caster's agility/contested avoidance either. I'm quite happy with this ability the way it works now.Class IssuesAvoidance: I feel they somewhat made up for this with steadfast stance, but it does require you to spec down that line. I never found the damage to be the real problem but the interrupts from having little to no avoidance were really annoying. INT as the Crit mitigation stat: It would be nice if the healer crit modifier were wisdom but int is my 3rd highest stat and it's not too hard to raise, especially since so much of our gear favors int over str.Wisdom as the primary stat: Our mythical takes advantage of wis, which gives it a decent purpose. I think if they were to follow your suggestion about wis boosting heals then they'd probably just nerf down the base amount of our heals and let our wis boost the heal amounts to where they are now. I think the mythical bonus is probably good enough.</blockquote>

Arabani

06-05-2009, 05:04 PM

My 2c:pAbout Focused Intervention-last time i used it in DoF, and now this spell is totaly joke, pls replace it with something usefull( for example Devine Recovery like self buff). Also Reverence begining to lose effectivnes-imo replace it with single target hot. Our both emergency reactives need redesighn too-increase there amount andor repalce with wardadd death prevent effect. Other spells is fine imo, enchance Odyssey is nice ofc.AA-yes, sacrifice is crap now,fix it. Stances..well,it's hard to not agree that focused prayers missing something, i'm personaly would like to see 5-10% reuse time on it.rest shadow aa:priest protective prayer and secular protection is lame due to game mechanics(140 miti and 380 resists), change it somehow...add small refreshing ward for example. Cleric devoted alegiance-same, adds less then 200 hp, totaly waste of aa.tempalr aa-all cure line is bad now, cure reactives heal for lol amount ,less then 1%, manacure is just no words:p and even enchance sanctuary is bad in tso enviroment, instead of +10 sec duration, reduce recast. or better remaid all cure line.As for SA-it's great already, will be op if will use all avoidance. i even like idea if it's only use block chance(it's SHIELD ally after all), but then u need to let us use kite shiled. Cmon clerics made for normal shiled, not this crap pot cover bucklers. It also will fix our avoidancesolo problem and will find use to kite shileds in game, since none of fighters wearing them and they just roting.

LowfyrWildforge

06-08-2009, 12:25 PM

There's a joke in my guild that, in this expansion, after the raid gets hit with some unfair death AE or ridiculously annoying encounter feature, that you'll hear a knock at the door, and someone from SoE will be there to kick you in the biscuits.Here are my two biggest templar-specific biscuit kicks for this expansion:1) Run and hide, cleric! In the last expansion, Templars were given the raid niche that we were the healer who could stand side-by-side with the tank, protecting him from harm with shield ally, and healing through the trauma AE's that would send other healers running for the hills. Now, we're back to cowering and jousting. The only difference is, when we're cowering and jousting, we lose about a third of our avoidance.2) You really didn't want to proc, anyway. Every time proc rates get lowered, or their mechanics get nerfed, Templars suffer the most. Why? Because about a third of our utility comes from procs. Another third comes from our buffs and stoneskin, and shield ally. Finally, the last third comes from actual healing. Since we're busy running from the monster now, we are becoming increasingly marginalized as a main tank healer.

ShamusOB

06-16-2009, 01:27 AM

<cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Divine Arbitration: Is junk period. Make it insta cast and it would suck less.Focused Intervention: This has plenty of amazing uses and can take a tank from 1k hp to 20k hp in seconds if you use it on massive group mobs.Cure: In it's current form it gives the caster no option of leaving one type of debuff on the target while removing another. In some fights you want to only remove certain debuffs while leaving up others yet that is now impossible when using Cure.Cures are fine, things you don't want to cure these days are curses anyways.AAs ShadowsSacrifice: No matter how much or how little the target of this spell is healed, the Cleric is reduced to around 5% of his total health. Even if the person is at 100% health you still loose all of yours except 5%.Fix: Have the spell only reduce the Cleric's health the amount healed, up to 95% of the Clerics total health - his current missing health. (e.g. Cleric accidentally hits sacrifice while targeting Guardian at 100% health, no health removed form Cleric).QFEFocused Prayers: The stance does not follow the standard of ALL other healer class stances. All other healers have a third benefit to their healing stance, Templars do not. In addition the penalty to casting speed in this stance affects two of the templars debuffs which are used to generate healing.Fix: Add a third benefit to this stance on par with the other healing classes, +casting speed or an increase to the heal amount of the two heal procing debuffs are good examples. Also remove casting speed penalty to the mark and Involuntary gift spell lines.QFE againTemplarMana Cure: This works well on some fights most probly haven't seen yet. Cure X: The amount the reactive actually triggers for is very low. The description states that the heal amount will come close to our current Bestowal of Vitae spell at max ranks.Fix: increase the heal amount to 80% of our current Bestowal of Vitae spell, currently "Vital intercession" which is around 1000-1200 healed +/-, so 800-960 +/-. This is also a good point. The emergencys haven't scaled well at all. They are terrible for the recastsClass IssuesWisdom as the primary stat: Healer gear is based on Wisdom as the primary stat yet wisdom does very little for us as a class. All other classes primary stat(s) increase their primary functions the higher it gets. Wisdom only increase our power pool and resists vs magic.Fix: Have WIS affect heals like INT affects nukes.Wis should atleast add to base of heal proc items as int effects base proc items</blockquote>

Menludar

06-17-2009, 11:43 AM

Just a couple things to add that I have noticed - Smite Wrath:Currently Ring of rage procs disable smite wrath, this was a pain before the new update when you could cancel it, now you can't even do that, meaning this item has lost a lot of its use - no other priest class is effected by this. Considering the ring of rage has its own (massive) drawbacks, it seems ridiculous to negate the bonus it gives!<div></div><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite><a href="mailto:Faush@Antonia">Faush@Antonia</a> Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smite Wrath: Is supposed to only be disabled from beneficial spells being cast, but is disabled by other spells/items also.Fix: The following actions should not cause 'Disable Smite Wrath" to proc; (This is only a partial list)<ul><li>Casting Unflinching Hammer This IS Beneficial</li></ul></blockquote></blockquote>Again, anything that increases DPS should not be effected by disable smite wrath. This is a temporary pet that is meant only to augment dps.

CuCullain

06-18-2009, 04:10 PM

Exactly, you could argue that a spell that hurts something that is trying to kill you is "beneficial". The intent is to disuade healing obviously. If they made it so only our spells that heal directly cued this is would be working as it should, I mean what advntage are we getting if our group buffs cast at normal speed while we are DPSing? Are healign castign these "until canceled" buffs mid fight to.. to what? We get it, Templar + DPS = - healing , the rest is just poor coding or lack of class understanding.

Enoa

06-19-2009, 03:56 AM

Blessings is totally useless at the present state of the game. Everything worth wearing is 'cannot be modified excpet by direct means'. I admit procs were getting out of control but making our aa effect totally worthless is crap. Our best end aa ability in templar tree is currently smite wraths (although the spells/ items that trigger it is borked as well) which is sad since it's a pure dps line.This used to be our best aa ability buff. it affects healing and dps procs. This needs to be changed asap. If they dont want to increase the proc rate anymore they need to do something with this aa line. Perhaps make it ... increase the amount of proc damage/heal / ward by 10% or some such similar effect still involving procs. This issue probably deserves it's own thread but i'll post it here for now

CuCullain

06-19-2009, 10:40 AM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Blessings is totally useless at the present state of the game. Everything worth wearing is 'cannot be modified excpet by direct means'. I admit procs were getting out of control but making our aa effect totally worthless is crap. Our best end aa ability in templar tree is currently smite wraths (although the spells/ items that trigger it is borked as well) which is sad since it's a pure dps line.This used to be our best aa ability buff. it affects healing and dps procs. This needs to be changed asap. If they dont want to increase the proc rate anymore they need to do something with this aa line. Perhaps make it ... increase the amount of proc damage/heal / ward by 10% or some such similar effect still involving procs. This issue probably deserves it's own thread but i'll post it here for now</blockquote>Blessings still seems to work the same as it did before the proc nerf, not sure why you think it does not.

Enoa

06-20-2009, 04:46 PM

Yes blessings works the same as it did before the proc nerf... that's not what i said. Turns out that they can't nerf right... blessing still affects some items proc rates but not others.

CuCullain

06-20-2009, 06:08 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes blessings works the same as it did before the proc nerf... that's not what i said. Turns out that they can't nerf right... blessing still affects some items proc rates but not others. </blockquote>I found what you are refering to and have added Blessings to the list of issues. Thank you for pointing that out.

Sprin

06-23-2009, 05:21 PM

<cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>AAs ShadowsSacrifice: . The only difference is the coercers POWER is drained to 5% and a ward equivalent to 1 point of ward for every 1.5 points of power drained. This sounds like an excelent start to fix this spell, where a ward is applied, or even a reactive that lasts for 30 seconds that has the equivalent to 1 point of reactive heal / ward for every 1.5 poitns of your health used. So instead of power like a coercer, it just uses your health, but provides a ward / reactive instead of just a straight heal. IE: you have 10k health, 95 percent of that is 9500, so the reactive heal amount / ward (30 second duration or 20 or something) would be 6300ish... Keeping the 95% health drain needs to be left in there. Afterall, it needs to be detrimental to the templar, or it wouldnt be a "sacrifice" so just transfering their health to full and yours down just a bit, is not much of a sacrifice... I think what i suggested above is a great alternative, you still sacrifice your health but its worth while..I would imagine that a 1/1.5 ratio is smaller than what it is currently on sacrifice for the straight heal, but you really cant have both IMHO. That would be too OP to give a ward / reactive equal to 95 percent of your own health.... An important distinction must be noted when comparing this spell to Manaward and Mana Sacrifice. Sacrifice is a single shot heal not a ward. A ward lasts a duration and though not all used at once it can be used up in that time limit. Sacrifice being a single heal is used all or partially from go, not later on. So if you dump 95% of your HP (about 13.3k for me in a raid) on a tank who has only 5k damage, that extra 8.3k HP goes into dust and is wasted. So why the hell would anyone dump 95% of their health into a person with 5k damage? Assuming you are not solo healing in a grp with no other class capable of healing, the odds are very good that another person might land a heal before you hit your sacrifice and in turn take a tank on the verge of death to 75% health and you to almost dead for little benefit. It does happen and it happens a lot.Well that's my point, it should be converted to a ward or a reactive, with a duration.. To improve its function. It was complained that its not very usefull because the majority of the heal went into dust... Well this would prevent that and make it useful. Make it just like Manaward, cept drain your health instead of power. Or cleric-ify it and make it a reactive instead of ward <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

CuCullain

06-24-2009, 01:28 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>AAs ShadowsSacrifice: . The only difference is the coercers POWER is drained to 5% and a ward equivalent to 1 point of ward for every 1.5 points of power drained. This sounds like an excelent start to fix this spell, where a ward is applied, or even a reactive that lasts for 30 seconds that has the equivalent to 1 point of reactive heal / ward for every 1.5 poitns of your health used. So instead of power like a coercer, it just uses your health, but provides a ward / reactive instead of just a straight heal. IE: you have 10k health, 95 percent of that is 9500, so the reactive heal amount / ward (30 second duration or 20 or something) would be 6300ish... Keeping the 95% health drain needs to be left in there. Afterall, it needs to be detrimental to the templar, or it wouldnt be a "sacrifice" so just transfering their health to full and yours down just a bit, is not much of a sacrifice... I think what i suggested above is a great alternative, you still sacrifice your health but its worth while..I would imagine that a 1/1.5 ratio is smaller than what it is currently on sacrifice for the straight heal, but you really cant have both IMHO. That would be too OP to give a ward / reactive equal to 95 percent of your own health.... An important distinction must be noted when comparing this spell to Manaward and Mana Sacrifice. Sacrifice is a single shot heal not a ward. A ward lasts a duration and though not all used at once it can be used up in that time limit. Sacrifice being a single heal is used all or partially from go, not later on. So if you dump 95% of your HP (about 13.3k for me in a raid) on a tank who has only 5k damage, that extra 8.3k HP goes into dust and is wasted. So why the hell would anyone dump 95% of their health into a person with 5k damage? Assuming you are not solo healing in a grp with no other class capable of healing, the odds are very good that another person might land a heal before you hit your sacrifice and in turn take a tank on the verge of death to 75% health and you to almost dead for little benefit. It does happen and it happens a lot.Well that's my point, it should be converted to a ward or a reactive, with a duration.. To improve its function. It was complained that its not very usefull because the majority of the heal went into dust... Well this would prevent that and make it useful. Make it just like Manaward, cept drain your health instead of power. Or cleric-ify it and make it a reactive instead of ward <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Couple reasons that is fine in theory but flawed in practice.- Make it a ward: Can't happen because Defilers already have a spell that does the same thing, and the idea is that this spell is not soul ward.- Make it a reactive: Reactives only proc if the person who takes the damage can survive the damage. So if your tank suddenly hits 10% HP, it won't matter how gigantic and how many reactives you get from this emergency heal, because if he takes another 10% on the next hit (very common in raids) he is dead and the spell will never go off.Unfortunatly with the way heals work in this game and given what other classes already have, the only sensible version of an emergency heal for Cleric's is a direct heal. They simply need to make the one change we have all asked for from day one.

Filroden

06-24-2009, 07:43 AM

<cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Couple reasons that is fine in theory but flawed in practice.- Make it a ward: Can't happen because Defilers already have a spell that does the same thing, and the idea is that this spell is not soul ward.- Make it a reactive: Reactives only proc if the person who takes the damage can survive the damage. So if your tank suddenly hits 10% HP, it won't matter how gigantic and how many reactives you get from this emergency heal, because if he takes another 10% on the next hit (very common in raids) he is dead and the spell will never go off.Unfortunatly with the way heals work in this game and given what other classes already have, the only sensible version of an emergency heal for Cleric's is a direct heal. They simply need to make the one change we have all asked for from day one.</blockquote>Only make the "remainder" into a reactive, not the whole. If the target only needs 5k to bring them to 100%, and your sacrifice was worth 9.5k, make the remaining 4.5k a reactive lasting 30 seconds which might trigger when the target is next hit (so long as the caster survives that 30 seconds also).

Sprin

06-24-2009, 06:45 PM

<cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>AAs ShadowsSacrifice: . The only difference is the coercers POWER is drained to 5% and a ward equivalent to 1 point of ward for every 1.5 points of power drained. This sounds like an excelent start to fix this spell, where a ward is applied, or even a reactive that lasts for 30 seconds that has the equivalent to 1 point of reactive heal / ward for every 1.5 poitns of your health used. So instead of power like a coercer, it just uses your health, but provides a ward / reactive instead of just a straight heal. IE: you have 10k health, 95 percent of that is 9500, so the reactive heal amount / ward (30 second duration or 20 or something) would be 6300ish... Keeping the 95% health drain needs to be left in there. Afterall, it needs to be detrimental to the templar, or it wouldnt be a "sacrifice" so just transfering their health to full and yours down just a bit, is not much of a sacrifice... I think what i suggested above is a great alternative, you still sacrifice your health but its worth while..I would imagine that a 1/1.5 ratio is smaller than what it is currently on sacrifice for the straight heal, but you really cant have both IMHO. That would be too OP to give a ward / reactive equal to 95 percent of your own health.... An important distinction must be noted when comparing this spell to Manaward and Mana Sacrifice. Sacrifice is a single shot heal not a ward. A ward lasts a duration and though not all used at once it can be used up in that time limit. Sacrifice being a single heal is used all or partially from go, not later on. So if you dump 95% of your HP (about 13.3k for me in a raid) on a tank who has only 5k damage, that extra 8.3k HP goes into dust and is wasted. So why the hell would anyone dump 95% of their health into a person with 5k damage? Assuming you are not solo healing in a grp with no other class capable of healing, the odds are very good that another person might land a heal before you hit your sacrifice and in turn take a tank on the verge of death to 75% health and you to almost dead for little benefit. It does happen and it happens a lot.Well that's my point, it should be converted to a ward or a reactive, with a duration.. To improve its function. It was complained that its not very usefull because the majority of the heal went into dust... Well this would prevent that and make it useful. Make it just like Manaward, cept drain your health instead of power. Or cleric-ify it and make it a reactive instead of ward <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>Couple reasons that is fine in theory but flawed in practice.Its not flawed, its just other classes may have it. There is a difference- Make it a ward: Can't happen because Defilers already have a spell that does the same thing, and the idea is that this spell is not soul ward.More then one class can have a similar spell... or even the exact same spell but called different things. Templars / mystics / defilers / Pallys etc have all have a ward. All healers have direct heals etc... - Make it a reactive: Reactives only proc if the person who takes the damage can survive the damage. So if your tank suddenly hits 10% HP, it won't matter how gigantic and how many reactives you get from this emergency heal, because if he takes another 10% on the next hit (very common in raids) he is dead and the spell will never go off.Ok, make it an HoT... 50% of the heal on initial tick and 10 percent every second for the next 5 seconds.... or make it a Stoneskin proc, the next 5 attacks are absorbed. Or make it similar to the Templar ward, dispels when they take damage... Unfortunatly with the way heals work in this game and given what other classes already have, the only sensible version of an emergency heal for Cleric's is a direct heal. They simply need to make the one change we have all asked for from day one.</blockquote> I am presenting alternate options as someone said in the other post they were told by a Dev the coding to only take your health down by the amount of the heal would be too difficult... which makes sense....

rollandheat

07-01-2009, 05:20 AM

Focused Intervention - joke spell, have used it once or twice. If its emergency spell make it useful by changing it to direct heal. If its backup spell, make it supply mana for example or something. Sacrifice - since the nerf, its not used anymore. You have very good chance being killed by AOE. I use it as last resort if all other emergency spells and miracles are used and in recast. Too bad for semi end ability. Manacure - its just too random, most detrimental effects have to be cured ASAP or cant be cured, with manacure you play roulette. Needs to be reworked Cure line - total joke now, it doesnt heal at all, either make it to cast the reactive without the need to actually curing anything or increase cast, recast and recovery speed. Healing stance - it needs to be fixed, it should slow down damage spells, not debuffs without any damage. Third effect should be added, cast speed for heal or cast speed for debuffs.

CuCullain

07-20-2009, 02:28 AM

I almost fell out of my chair just now... a dev posted in not 1, but several class threads.. Maybe this list won't go to waste after all.. *crosses fingers*

Maskone

07-29-2009, 11:54 AM

Mana cure – Oh gosh please fix. It seems absolutely useless with too many variables. AA Cures – It doesn’t use your Bestowal of Vitae + heal amount. It just uses the fixed rate of the default bestowal. Glory – Increase range to place it on someone. You have to be right up close to someone to put the buff on them. The other buff lines have much further range. Shield ally – Match to max heal range.Reverence – Make it last longer and longer reuse time. Seems useless in t8. Sacrifice – Yes please adjust to not waste hp. Forgiving Salvation – Yes the hp regain should be percentage.Divine Arbitration – I never use because always wipes the group. I mean oh yeah it must have been aoe yeah.. uh must of. Im curious how this would work if it was RAID WIDE with shorter reuse timer.Blessings – Seems way low to make difference. A lot of items don’t seem to be effected by this. Dang now that I think about, our class is seems broken.

Aeralik

07-29-2009, 05:58 PM

<cite>Maskone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Glory – Increase range to place it on someone. You have to be right up close to someone to put the buff on them. The other buff lines have much further range. </blockquote>Like I said in another thread most ranges have been standardized now. So single target buffs in general all have 35m ranges now. That and self/group buffs persisting through death comes with gu53.

Isard

07-29-2009, 06:40 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote> That and self/group buffs persisting through death comes with gu53.</blockquote>Is this the way you are going to handle the buffing situation rather than consolidate buffs as had been mentioned before? If so I like that idea and not so much the consolidation idea.

Gaige

07-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Hmmm, so you only have to buff when you join new groups?

Crismorn

07-29-2009, 08:31 PM

Please give templars another ward and make them able to buff there group with more health, currently its difficult being the hands down best healers in the game.

Nlaeni

09-30-2009, 11:56 AM

Wurlipus

10-25-2009, 01:28 PM

Playing a templar ive noticed that cure is an issue when grouping and raiding."Cure: In it's current form it gives the caster no option of leaving one type of debuff on the target while removing another. In some fights you want to only remove certain debuffs while leaving up others yet that is now impossible when using Cure"possible solution ?1 adding a group AA line for cure 2 changing the mana cure to a group cure or raid cure . i would spend 30 aa just to get a group/raid cure a would reather cast cure the try to rely on a trigger that rarely works when needed.3 making the cure abilityis self group/raid. "this will never happen"Also i notice on a in pvp seem that templars are not holding up do to lack of defence. sure there in plate but i think the lack of tower shields is where the problem come into play. the added Mit would provide bit more defence for when the scouts sneak up to shank you in the back. as well i consider tower shield a way to make the Cleric class stand out more. druids get the reactive heals and hots abilities , also shapeshift abilities, shamans have the aly pets and defuffing abilities. The templars need something, am i wrong? there are plenty of tower shield that are geared towared healer status more then tank that ive seen but the templar just cant seem to attune .

DeathtoGnomes

10-14-2010, 11:26 PM

Can we unsticky this or put a new list of issue together?

RedBaron

11-08-2011, 11:31 AM

this should be unstickied and removed! IT IS NOT RELEVANT!