The Haggle Baron of...Burynai?

[DeBasilisk]

<p>So, based on lore from the Fens of Nathsar quests from the Bellywhumpers, and some recent info releases, we can apparently infer that the Bellywhumper Burynai worship an Iksar? And they call him the Haggle Baron?</p><p>There have been several HB's through Iksar history, Dalnir and Klok being examples...Is this an undead version of one of them?</p><p>To me, this makes no sense...Maybe I have my lore way off base, I kind of hope so.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The Burynai have always worshiped Haggle Barons. Thier enterprising accomplishments in life inspire their own greed. The leader of the Burynai in Kurn's Tower in EQlive was named Bargynn.</p><p>The Burynai originally invaded Kurn's Tower and Killed Kurn himself, who was the most famous executioner of the Iksar empire. Using necromancy, they resurrected Kurn into an undead servant, but the burynai were disapointed with that, but they kept him anyway.</p>

[shadowscale]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The Burynai originally invaded Kurn's Tower and Killed Kurn himself, who was the most famous executioner of the Iksar empire. Using necromancy, they resurrected Kurn into an undead servant, but the burynai were disapointed with that, but they kept him anyway.</p></blockquote><p>this is the first time i have heard of this. from what i know kurn wasent even in EQ1 till the latest expantion.</p><p>also <span >Klok is one of the nameds in the new kurns. </span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>From the EQ Atlas:</p><hr /><p>The Tower of Kurn is a place of dread for all of Kunark. It was here that the Iksar Empire of Old took their most hated of enemies to torture and kill. Now all that remains of this legendary, feared place is a crumbling, dilapidated tower and a large dungeon complex that exists beneath the tower. Rumors of vast treasure abound - but few are foolish enough to investigate their validity.</p><p>The tower itself used to be four stories high, but the ceiling has collapsed, rendering only the first two and half floors accessible. A trap door in the outer regions of the tower leads to the suterranean dungeon complex, constructed of brick and mortar.</p><p>The first floor of the tower includes a great hall with large storage rooms on either side. There is a locked door here that leads into the dungeons. The second floor has served as barracks for the jailers. Only half of the 3rd floor is accessible and consists of a pantry, kitchen, and dining hall.</p><p>The frightening dungeon is large and srpawling, consisting of various cells and rooms of torture and execution. Undead of all kinds roam the halls as well as giant spiders and other assorted creatures.</p><p>The leader of the Burynai, Bargynn, can be found in the Cave of Wishes - a temple to Innoruuk that contains a large dark gem on display.  Bargynn is a powerful shaman and is always attended by necromancer consorts as well as personal warrior guards.</p><hr /><p>Notable NPC's: Kurn</p><hr /><p>During the height of the Iksarian Empire of Old, Kurn was one of Venril Sathir's most loyal subjects. Obsessed with torture, Kurn was the perfect choice for an imperial executioner and interrogator. Not wishing to fill the walls of sebilis with the screams and tortured cries of their enemies, Venril ordered the construction of a great tower beyond the city walls where Kurn could perform his grim duties. For decades, Kurn perfected his art on the most hated foes of the Iksarian Empire, with many individual cases lasting years.</p><p>Kurn's obsessive nature led to the tower's downfall. One evening, while engaging in the torment of his mosted prized subject, another prisoner escaped and descended into the nethermost depths of the dungeon, which Kurn had been using as a storage place for several obsolete and failed torture devices. From there, the prisoner managed to dig a tunnel, escaping the confines of the nightmarish tower. Unfortunately, the route the prisoner carved opened up a portal for the Burynai Race.</p><p>Enraged at their discovery, the Burynai invaded the twoer through the prisoner's tunnel, vowing to destroy the threat they deemed the tower of torture posed to their culture. Within days, the tower was overrun by Burynai necromancers and shamans. Kurn was captured, his execution only stopped when the tribal elder became fascinated with the discovery of his torture infrastructure. The tribal elder ordered the tower sealed and guarded, assuring that any who dared to enter the domain would be swift to die.</p><p>His own torture devices used against him, Kurn was subject to the Burynai's experiments. Eventually, over a year later, the Iksar would finally perish, only to be resurrected as an undead servant by the disappointed Burynai elder. To this day, the undead remnants of Kurn lurk in the innermost depths of his dungeon, existing only with the savage will to torment any that enter the confines of his chamber.</p><hr /><p>Yeah, Kurn never existed as an NPC in the tower itself, but that's the history of the tower.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Hmm. Looks like the story about Kurn's Tower told in the new lore isn't that far off from the Atlas story.</p><p><a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?id=3116&section=News&locale=en_US" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...mp;locale=en_US</a></p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

Strange that the original Kurn's Tower was apparently larger than the 4 stories listed there. (With EQLive's SoD expansion you can get into the predestroyed tower, and it has around 7 stories total)

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Strange that the original Kurn's Tower was apparently larger than the 4 stories listed there. (With EQLive's SoD expansion you can get into the predestroyed tower, and it has around 7 stories total)</blockquote><p>That is what is known as a ret-con.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>See, I've been reading this story about Kurn being killed by the Burynai for years now in my Maps of Myrist book. While the lore seems to add up now, with the last lore release, it's still seems important to note that the Map's of Myrist atlas can't be 100% canon (unless a Dev. said otherwise, and I don't know it). Even now, this is the first in-game confirmation story of the tale about Kurn, at least that I know of...Kurn was not a named mob in EQLive. Nor an NPC. The Myrist book implies that he was in the game.</p><p>Besides, this book also talks about the "Avian," Sarnak, and how they formed the winged airforce of the Sebilisian Empire...</p><p>Granted, a lot of the book seems spot-on, and it's good reading, but there are definitely some serious plot holes.</p><p>Also, that cracks me up about Bargynn. I never even thought to pronounce it that way, it my mind I was saying "Bar-Jin." But other than that, where is there any evidence in EQLive that they worshipped Iksar Haggle Barons? If they did, why wouldn't they have served Cabilis, where Klok resided?</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

Was not before SoD at least. He's in EQlive now, in a raid instance. ( <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=33042" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/s....shtml?id=33042</a> ). But that doesn't matter for EQII in any case. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[teddyboy4]

<p><cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>See, I've been reading this story about Kurn being killed by the Burynai for years now in my Maps of Myrist book. While the lore seems to add up now, with the last lore release, it's still seems important to note that the Map's of Myrist atlas can't be 100% canon (unless a Dev. said otherwise, and I don't know it). Even now, this is the first in-game confirmation story of the tale about Kurn, at least that I know of...Kurn was not a named mob in EQLive. Nor an NPC. The Myrist book implies that he was in the game.</p><p>Besides, this book also talks about the "Avian," Sarnak, and how they formed the winged airforce of the Sebilisian Empire...</p><p>Granted, a lot of the book seems spot-on, and it's good reading, but there are definitely some serious plot holes.</p><p>Also, that cracks me up about Bargynn. I never even thought to pronounce it that way, it my mind I was saying "Bar-Jin." But other than that, where is there any evidence in EQLive that they worshipped Iksar Haggle Barons? If they did, why wouldn't they have served Cabilis, where Klok resided?</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the story Kurn Macha being the Empire's Chief Torturer, and one of his prisoners escaping and thus uncovering the Burynai tunnels under the Tower, and then the Burynai rampaging through the tower, killing Kurn and raising him back up, have always been around. I had gotten the story from the "Maps of Myrist", also known as the EQ Atlas, and it seemed to fit, so I counted it as canon. Yes, I know, not everything in the Atlas is canon, but some of it's stories and lore is, and I've always counted the Tower as amongst them.</p><p>As for Kurn, I personally can't remember if he was, or wasn't in the tower, but my gut reaction was that he was there. I spent much time in that tower camping the skele's, and later the Burynai when I was strong enough, and I seem to have vague memories of there   being a named skele amongst one of the upper levels and I could've sworn it was Kurn....but maybe it wasn't and I am just getting the named Burynai confused w/ Kurn.</p><p>The Atlas does mention the Sarnak as being an avian race whom the Iksar created to be part of their "Slave Air Force". I'm thinking this was just one, of the many, mistakes that was made in the Atlas. The writers probably got his/her races mixed and combined the atributes of the Sokokkar's w/ the Sarnak. Of course, the Sarnak really could have been intended to be Avian, and that fact was just lost in the mix of the years....eh, in any case I don't think there's been mention of the Sarnak being able to fly since.</p><p>I'm not sure if there is any mention of the Burynai worshipping the Hagle Baron's before EQ2 and the questlines in the Fens. I know there has been mention of the Haggle Baron's themselves for a long while, from what I remember they were part of the Iksar court, and a high ranking member of the Empire responsible for maintaining the Empires trade, but I don't remember there being mention of them being associated w/ the Burynai in any. In the Atlas it says the Burynai under Kurn's are followers of Inny, and have a temple built to him in their tunnels, inside the Cave of Wishes, where a "dark gem" is said to on display.</p><p>Yeah...I absolutely LOVE my "Maps of Myrist" EQ Atlas, it's been one of my favorite books since I first picked it up WAAAY back in the day. I know some (read: a lot) of the stories, and lore that is written in it aren't considered to be canon, but some of it is and in any case, it's a [Removed for Content] interesting read. It has tons of info on all kinds of stuff, and to me at least, has always been a really neat insight into many of the places I loved in EQ.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>jj</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">As for Kurn, I personally can't remember if he was, or wasn't in the tower, but my gut reaction was that he was there. I spent much time in that tower camping the skele's, and later the Burynai when I was strong enough, and I seem to have vague memories of there   being a named skele amongst one of the upper levels and I could've sworn it was Kurn....but maybe it wasn't and I am just getting the named Burynai confused w/ Kurn.</span></p><p>I loved that zone too, spent as much time as possible. You might be thinking of the Jester, who had the awesome Iksar Berserker Club. He almost never spawned, and camping him was a serious commitment. Later into the game they added a quest about repairing the head of Kurn's cook...I forget his name, Mirgon Dower or something? But no, good ol' Kurn wasn't there.</p><p>Actually, most lore shows that when Kurn was alive he wasn't even at the tower. To quote Vhalen:</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">It must also be mentioned that, although Kurn's Tower was named after the then existing warlord Kurn Machata, he did not oversee its operations. Kurn Machata was based in Warslik's Wood where he led an extremely sadistic and bloody campaign against the giants. Chosooth was placed charge of all operations of a second tower that would duplicate the terror of the Warslik's Wood tower. The second tower of torture was originally referred to as, simply, the Kurn. This became confusing to historians. Many placed Kurn Machata in Kurn's Tower and Chosooth in Kaesora. Evidence of Chosooth would be found within the palace of the temple city Kaesora. He no doubt spent time there since it was adjacent to the Kurn</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The EQ Atlas: Maps of Myrist *IS* official canon. The book was created, published, and sold directly from SoE themselves. I remember buying it off the website. It advertises The Planes of Power and even EQOA on the back. It's not Third Party and it's not Pen & Paper.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>Does Maps of Myrist trump Vhalen?</p><p>The whole story of Kurn proves that only one can be true. Either Kurn did or didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower/The Kurn. Vhalen says he didn't, MoM says he did.</p><p>The problem with MoM is that it's told from the perspective of "Maelin Starpyie," the gnome or dwarf or whatever who's pictured on the inside cover. It's canon from the sense that Maelin really wrote these things, but some of the stuff he wrote is wrong. That's the way I see it.</p><p>This rectifies the Kurn-controversy. Vhalen says that Kurn didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower, that it's a common error assumed by historians based on the names. Maelin and the Iksar dirge from GU52 preview are both historians, and can be assumed to possibly be wrong.</p><p>Although, none of this matters really. SOE retains the power to retcon anything said in MoM, forum boards and even EQ1 at any time they please.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Does Maps of Myrist trump Vhalen?</p><p>The whole story of Kurn proves that only one can be true. Either Kurn did or didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower/The Kurn. Vhalen says he didn't, MoM says he did.</p><p>The problem with MoM is that it's told from the perspective of "Maelin Starpyie," the gnome or dwarf or whatever who's pictured on the inside cover. It's canon from the sense that Maelin really wrote these things, but some of the stuff he wrote is wrong. That's the way I see it.</p><p>This rectifies the Kurn-controversy. Vhalen says that Kurn didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower, that it's a common error assumed by historians based on the names. Maelin and the Iksar dirge from GU52 preview are both historians, and can be assumed to possibly be wrong.</p><p>Although, none of this matters really. SOE retains the power to retcon anything said in MoM, forum boards and even EQ1 at any time they please.</p></blockquote><p>Maelin Starpyre is the head librarian found in the Plane of Knowledge. Vhalen said that Kurn operated outside of the tower, which is true, because he was carrying out a military campaign in Warsilik Woods against the giants while it was being constructed for him to use. He then moved into it and used it. It really doesn't matter if that little detail is mentioned in history. It's like stating that Alexander the Great one day decided to start his epic campaign across the world by taking the first step with his left foot instead of his right. Is that really important?</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>DeBasilisk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Does Maps of Myrist trump Vhalen?</p><p>The whole story of Kurn proves that only one can be true. Either Kurn did or didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower/The Kurn. Vhalen says he didn't, MoM says he did.</p><p>The problem with MoM is that it's told from the perspective of "Maelin Starpyie," the gnome or dwarf or whatever who's pictured on the inside cover. It's canon from the sense that Maelin really wrote these things, but some of the stuff he wrote is wrong. That's the way I see it.</p><p>This rectifies the Kurn-controversy. Vhalen says that Kurn didn't operate out of Kurn's Tower, that it's a common error assumed by historians based on the names. Maelin and the Iksar dirge from GU52 preview are both historians, and can be assumed to possibly be wrong.</p><p>Although, none of this matters really. SOE retains the power to retcon anything said in MoM, forum boards and even EQ1 at any time they please.</p></blockquote><p>Right now, the next LU trumphs both. Until something makes it into game instead of anyone just writing about it things can change. Heck, even once they get into game they can change but it takes some real guts (or ignorance) for a dev to change things that are already in game.</p><p>Vhalen can be wrong, mostly because EQ2 isn't dependent on his "vision" any longer. I'd rather have Vhalen back than what we have now, but that really isn't up to me is it?</p>