noticable issues with rangers on test

[jjlo69]

<p>ok i got on test last night after raids</p><p>things that stick out in m mind is the following</p><p>1. the poison increase from the change is way way to low....</p><p>example:</p><p>On live poison damage is at 1125(with 225 +spellmod) and it crits for around 3k id say 70% of the time since i have 72%spell crit mod on live..</p><p>On test poison dmg is at 1115 only with 8 points in the aa line and it doesnt crit any more.</p><p>to go from 1125-3k dmg on poison to a flat rate of 1115 is horrable at to say the least and should be closer to 25-50%</p><p>2. Peace of mind, perfection of the maesto, other group/raid wide wide temp procs that still crit off spell crit should be made to be modified via ranged and melee crit also if there gonna be able to be triggered via combat art/spell.</p><p>example: i was in a group with pali/myself/wizzy/ceorcer/warden/warlock peace of mind critted for me 2% of the time(note: gear on test i have a whooping 10% spell crit still due to items)  where for the casters it criting at 85-95%</p><p>3. items broken via this update our TSO set legs effect no longer procs those need to be fixed asap and items that effect posion dmg directly ie seb coaking dagger increases posion dmg by ten percent all no longer adding dmg to the our poisons..</p><p>4. lastly looking over the last parse i have from test if these changes are gonna be in effect our ca dmg is subpar as well and needs to be increase as well.</p><p>im certain there is more but these examples stick out the most atm</p><p>UNCLE</p><p> edited for spelling</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>2. Peace of mind, perfection of the maesto, other group/raid wide wide temp procs that still crit off spell crit should be made to be modified via ranged and melee crit also if there gonna be able to be triggered via combat art/spell.</p></blockquote><p>If that happened it would nerf the heck out of Mages even more than they already are.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>2. Peace of mind, <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">perfection of the maesto</span></strong>, other group/raid wide wide temp procs that still crit off spell crit should be made to be modified via ranged and melee crit also if there gonna <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">be able to be triggered via combat art</span></strong>/spell.</blockquote><p>What?</p><p>Where?</p><p>When?</p><p>If this is true, I fully expect CoB to trigger off of spells, but somehow I don't think its true.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>2. Peace of mind, <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">perfection of the maesto</span></strong>, other group/raid wide wide temp procs that still crit off spell crit should be made to be modified via ranged and melee crit also if there gonna <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">be able to be triggered via combat art</span></strong>/spell.</blockquote><p>What?</p><p>Where?</p><p>When?</p><p>If this is true, I fully expect CoB to trigger off of spells, but somehow I don't think its true.</p></blockquote><p>Dont worry.  I have a feeling a certain ranger just stuck an arrow too far up their nose and did some permanent damage to the squishy matter up there.</p>

[jjlo69]

<p><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/2rcnxva.jpg" /></p><p>oh im sry if i ruffled a few feathers maestor and blades are correct peace of mind is the main one i was refering to as u can see off this pic on what it does it should be imho critable off both spell and ranged/melee attacks</p><p>uncle</p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. the poison increase from the change is way way to low....</p><p>example:</p><p>On live poison damage is at 1125(with 225 +spellmod) and it crits for around 3k id say 70% of the time since i have 72%spell crit mod on live..</p><p>On test poison dmg is at 1115 only with 8 points in the aa line and it doesnt crit any more.</p><p>to go from 1125-3k dmg on poison to a flat rate of 1115 is horrable at to say the least and should be closer to 25-50%</p></blockquote><p>How does a base damage of 1125 become a crit for 3k ? That seems to be a bit crit increase - nearly a 3x crit multiplier ?</p><p>Are you getting your crit damage & poison debuffs mixed in together ? Remember, we need to compare apples to apples, not to oranges.</p><p>If the mob has been poison debuffed then I fully expect the new mechanism to proc poison for a lot more than the base 1115, although admitedly less than you would have seen on a crit previously. Unless poison debuffs are now being ignored on test maybe ?</p><p>As I mentioned on the Ranger thread, this change may end up levelling the playing field between poorly equipeed and top end Rangers when it comes to poison damage - your view on if this is a good or bad thing may vary...</p>

[Lohkei]

<p>I logged in on test and 8 aa's into toxic expertise gives 16% poison increase to all crafted poisons. But when compared to my ranger on live it looks like the 16% is only 16 points to base dmg to my caustic.</p>

[foopah]

<p>So, just so I understand this situation completely. The devs intend to nerf poison dmg. Call it what you will, but this is excactly what they are doing. Now, to further it, the rangers will be hit hardest on this. Rangers need some help to keep up with other dps clases, they do not need anything else to take away from the  sub par dps and NO UTILITY! they have. How about fixing some the broken things with rangers, like Repeating arrows, its the most useless piece of crap spell/combat art in existance, is there any self respecting ranger that even has this in thier hotbars? So, am I correct in this line of thought? I for one am sick and tired of being SOE's punching bag, seems like every update theres another nerf to ranger dps. What are they aiming for? Knocking us down to  healer dps? Why are brigs and swashies out dpsing rangers?  I think you devs need to get your heads out of your collective arses and  do something constructive. Balance the game by boosting who needs boosting, not cutting everyone's legs out from underneath them to get your favorite toon to the place you want them to be.</p>

[Kitsune286]

<p>I've /bug 'd the issue with the new Toxic Expertice.</p><p>Currently, it is adding 2 damage per rank, as opposed to 2% per rank.  So, basic poison with no AA into Toxic Expertice deals 811 damage for my character, deals 827 damage after spending the 8 AA points (as reported by examine windows).</p><p>Edit: Typo</p><p>Edit2: Math Typo</p>

[Mileras]

<p>I see the issue with item effects that are stated to affect poison damage being a definate bug that should be addressed.  The Sebilite Croaking Dirk's effect was made to only affect the base damage of poisons, but if I'm reading this post correctly it is not affecting poisons at all on test. </p>

[jjlo69]

<p><cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>1. the poison increase from the change is way way to low....</p><p>example:</p><p>On live poison damage is at 1125(with 225 +spellmod) and it crits for around 3k id say 70% of the time since i have 72%spell crit mod on live..</p><p>On test poison dmg is at 1115 only with 8 points in the aa line and it doesnt crit any more.</p><p>to go from 1125-3k dmg on poison to a flat rate of 1115 is horrable at to say the least and should be closer to 25-50%</p></blockquote><p>How does a base damage of 1125 become a crit for 3k ? That seems to be a bit crit increase - nearly a 3x crit multiplier ?</p><p>Are you getting your crit damage & poison debuffs mixed in together ? Remember, we need to compare apples to apples, not to oranges.</p><p>If the mob has been poison debuffed then I fully expect the new mechanism to proc poison for a lot more than the base 1115, although admitedly less than you would have seen on a crit previously. Unless poison debuffs are now being ignored on test maybe ?</p><p>As I mentioned on the Ranger thread, this change may end up levelling the playing field between poorly equipeed and top end Rangers when it comes to poison damage - your view on if this is a good or bad thing may vary...</p></blockquote><p>ok here is an example of what im talking about for you</p><p><img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/28jg61.jpg" /></p><p>now these were poison parse average pug groups in the new JW instance and crucible on live respectively now a puny 16% poison increase is not gonna off set this change and set a ranger back extremely</p><p>UNCLE</p>

[Geothe]

<p>compare poison proc damage against Training dummies on Live and Test.</p><p>Your comparison of data from PUG zone raids is totally flawed, as there is something know as DEBUFFS in the game, and the funny thing about DEBUFFFS is that they can make damage increase.  Random PUGs wont be debuffing the same thing, so in one group, your damage will always be higher if there are classes that always keep nox debuffs on mobs while in another group, it would be less due to no Nox debuffs.So, how about you actually come back with relevant data sometime instead of the junk you're showing now.</p><p>Edit:Now for real math.On live the Pred AA grants 56% Spell Crit (I believe, someone please chime in and tell me if this is incorrect).What this translates into is:56% of the time your poisons will crit granting a 30% increase in poison damage.This, averaged out over time is a 16.8% increase in poison damage overall (30% increase 56% of the time (30*0.56=16.<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.And wow, the new changed AA is a flat base damage increase of poisons by 16%*.  What a coincidence! THe old AA increased poison damage by around 16% and the new one does as well! LOL</p><p>*Note:  This assumes that they actually FIX the new AA and make it increase poison damage in a percentile manner instead of additive as it is now.</p>

[jjlo69]

<p>call it what u will but i tested it in a group enviroment where it will effect us the most imho.. you can call what im saying garbage.  i dont care but this change is gonna hurt the ranger class period.. maybe when the fix goes in it will balance out some more but i mnot hopeful about that ...    </p>

[Webin]

<p><cite>jjlo69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>call it what u will but i tested it in a group enviroment where it will effect us the most imho.. you can call what im saying garbage.</p></blockquote><p>What is being said is that you gathered comparitive data in a manner that does not allow for comparison.  To properly determine if the anecdotal information you present (less poison damage) is accurrate, the comparitive data must be gathered in a manner that allows for a fair comparison.  As was stated, go to KJ and parse the wall, or find a training dummy to parse.  Make sure all your stats are as similar as humanly possible.  Repeat the tests 10 times to reduce the impact of RNG outliers.  You compare apples to apples when you've only picked oranges and bananas.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, as a ranger I'm keeping an eye on the proposed changes as much as anyone, but I'm more likely to believe Goethe's math than your ACT charts.</p><p>Edit: I really should proofread more often.</p>

[kartikeya]

<p>I was only on Test for an extremely brief time, so I can't give a lot of feedback yet.</p><p>Something I definitely did notice was that, for some reason, my auto-attacks were listed as doing slashing damage in the combat window. This is pretty weird, since I was using the same arrows as on live (ferrite field point), and auto attack there reports as crushing. No idea if that's just an output error or something that might be concerning, I just thought I'd mention.</p>

[Corwinus]

<p>I had time to do some tests today following Webin's methodology described in his post above.</p><p>Guinea pig - Corwin - Your average raiding ranger - level 80 - Mythical - 190 AA - (Spec 8 on toxic expertise in predator, 5 on enhanced caustic + conservation in ranger) - using field point arrows and expert caustic poison.</p><p>In Idle state STR 949, AGI 642, INT 373, DPS 46, RDA 54, RC 77, SC 53, Haste 89. The same character is on live and on test, with the same equipment.</p><p><strong>ON LIVE</strong></p><p>I loaded expert caustic poison and killed the training wall in KJ ten times in a row using the same CA sequence.</p><p>Results from ACT: Poison was 4% of my damage and the damage range of the poison was <strong>968-1258</strong>. It critted <strong>56%</strong> of the time.</p><p>I did another ten kill using the Sebilis Croaking Dirk but making sure that my INT stat stayed the same.</p><p>Results from ACT: Poison was 4% of my damage and the damage range of the poison was <strong>1065-1385</strong>. It critted <strong>54%</strong> of the time.</p><p><strong>ON TEST</strong> (as 5-30-2009)</p><p>I loaded expert caustic poison and killed the training wall in KJ ten times in a row using the same CA sequence.</p><p>Results from ACT: Poison was 3% of my damage and the fixed damage of the poison was <strong>983</strong>. It does not crit.</p><p>I did another ten kill using the Sebilis Croaking Dirk but making sure that my INT stat stayed the same.</p><p>Results from ACT: Poison was 3% of my damage and the fixed damage of the poison was <strong>1070</strong>. It does not crit.</p><p>I also tried to increase my INT (without the SCD) and moving it from 373 to 377 added 2 to my fixed poison damage raising it to <strong>965. </strong>So basically +2 pt INT ----> +1 pt dmg at this stage, the trade off gets worse of course with the diminishing return when you get to a higher INT stat.</p><p>So yes, for now it is a setback because the average of poison hit on live is above the fixed number that we have now on test by 130 (and 155 with the SCD) in the case above.</p><p>But as Goethe mentioned earlier the Predator AA is not working well now, so the 16% additional damage on poison do not show yet. When this will be fixed I hope that things will even out.</p><p>Hope this helps.</p><p>Corwin</p>