THIS Class is Garbage!!! Why the necro has become the WORST class in EQ2 [Archive]

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Germs666

05-27-2009, 03:58 PM

First off, this is a list of problems with our class. The point of this thread is to point out how many unresolved issues we have and hopefully get the devs to wake up.<hr />1) Pet AI - This I admit is a hard one to fix, but Line of sight issues,pathing,casting order etc. Ever time how long it takes for a pet to land it's first spell?? Being able to customize your pets casting order would be nice.2) No Shared spell crit/spell damage with our pet! - If pets are a portion of our outgoing damage why must they be gimped? 50% Would be a good base start considering there are items and AA Abilities that could get them closer to 100%3) Slow casting! - I heard our cast times were faster a while ago. Enchanters blow us away and we'd never get TC or UT over a wizard/warlock. Our DoTS should be instant cast considering we have to WAIT AROUND for ticks. This makes no sense to me.4) Way too many DoTS - I understand the RP purpose of necros giving diseases etc. We need more Direct damage nukes! No burst damage means bad zonewides and not much to offer instance groups.Our DPS is neutered becuase of slow casting/and waiting around for our damage while scouts wail away...5) Outdated utility - Hearts used to be cool but my Fabled hearts give 91 power every couple of seconds? Our Rez isn't anything special with it's 45 sec recast. We offer no utility to raids other than casting hearts.Our life transfers could be beefed up to make us support healers like in EQOA. (we'd have like 4-6 necros in a raid helping keep the MT up It was fun)6) Ooze Crawler - This thing takes away our pet and and gives us this blind guy that couldnt hit the broadside of a barn.Making it a pet proc would be great!7) Exploding pet STR AA end ability - We lose our pet again for a WEAK AoE attack? We lose any DPS gains that would give since we have to recast/rebuff our pet. (Never tried this with Dimensional Storage but still can't picture it being useful) This should apply to swarm pets instead.8 )Lifeburn - Fun Ability, but requires too much help from other classes. I'd rather it be a massive DoT that takes our health down to 25% but gets full ticks everytime. I dont see assassins losing all their health from execute... or do I see mobs getting a 30 sec IMMUNITY after assassins big hits.9) No Pet gear? - Pets should have equipment slots! Maybe not jewelry, but It'd be a nice touch and would sure help us grab some DPS gains.10)Scout Pet/AGI line - No reason to waste money/AA on either one. AGI end line is also a joke.11) Vampirism - This spell needs to be trashed ASAP. Check the broker price, see if anyone uses this junker.12) Undead Horde - 15 recast is brutal considering its still casting some undead tide and 1 AoE will remove this spell from the mob.13) Swarm pets - Are they a DoT? Are they pets? No shared stats? Removable by AoE's? Cast times are also too long on these..14) Auto- Attack - Scouts get an auto attack thats based on melee. Ours should be ranged and based on spell crit. It'd only be fair. We lose a fair amount of DPS from this alone compared to scouts.15) Spell damage/crit bonus - Doesn't seem to help at all, only applies to the first DoT ticks and 50% to our Lifetaps? Why is this fair??!! Crit bonus applies to our sadly low 1st DoT tick resulting in tiny gains. Same applies to Najena's ring of readiness I don't see many DPS gains and wonder if the time spent clicking the proc is wasted.16) Cloth Armor,low HP, low mit, med damage = No real reward for being squishy and having to keep our pet alive also. Our damage just isn't there.17) Drawing of Souls - These are by no means class defining spells, so why can we carry only 1 cast of each? Either make these stackable or smart loot because I only use about half of these, yet I can never keep them all in stock.18 ) Raidwide hearts/Single target hearts - Target already has a necromancer item, The whole ad3/m1 hotbar fiasco. I know this maybe in the works for a fix but it is still annoying when people ask me for hearts because they have ad3 hotbarred and it doesn't register.This is all I could think of at the moment. Please feel free to add to this list.

Bonestri

05-28-2009, 01:20 AM

To be completely honest with you, do I think this is the best way to handle this issue...no, although there is not really a wonderful way to handle it, and I certainly understand your frustration as well.You have some valid points, and some a little off key in my opinion, so just going to emphasize some opinions. I'm not gonna hit every single topic you posted.Pet AI- Although the spell casting order isn't awesome, I would say the line of sight issue can be relatively fixed with using /pet melee, and the pet will search for line of sight.Shared stats- As much as I hate pet gear and I would love to this implemented in some way, I don't see it happening as much as I do support you on this one.Casting speed- We do cast slower than enchanters, but we cast faster than sorcerers, and when PoTM and PoM etc. are in, both our pets and ourselves proc, making it a somewhat balanced.Too many DoTs- Here I think you have it all wrong. Burst DPS is not our game in my opinion. If we had more DoTs, we wouldn't sit there reapplying DoTs over and over just to get first tick damage constantly. This would allow more damage over time accumulation, overall boosting dps. If our dumbfires were DoTs that would be affected by splurt and other spell bonuses, we would be in a much happier place. Imagine: Another DoT equivalent to bloodcoil, which would allow the actual ticks to get more use.Useless Abilities and AAs- Yeah, we have quite a few of them. Every class has some, we can manage.Lifeburn- Highly useful spell, grab your favorite healer and kick out some damage, one of our few truly burst dps spells.Pet Gear- Probably not the answer, simply an opinion.Truly, we do not have anything specific to offer in terms of utility that makes us desirable. Our DPS probably falls slightly below what it should, considering we are parsing close to enchanters, while offering no utility. Feel free to smack away at what I've said, would gladly like to hear other perspectives.

olde english D

06-08-2009, 06:55 PM

My perspective? Germs is right on, and Bonestrike doesnt have a clue.

tendo2

06-11-2009, 04:50 AM

I wrote up a pretty long post about what i thought of all of it but to add insult to injury.I've noticed Tank pets anyways don't seem to be able to get any mitigation changes onto them. I've gone through and casted all my tank pets from every tier some adept 3 some M1 and the pets always come up showing 40.5% mitigation (lower level pets will show it against their maximum level). Grouped up with a priest for some group buff (physical mitigation is one they all have) and while my necro's had gone up significantly the pet remained at 40.5%. So it appears to me that the only difference between ad3 pets and M1 pets is a little more avoidance and hps. My Warden self buffed is running around with 42% mit and more than double the avoidance of our tank pet. Conjy Tank pets seem to be locked at 40.5% mit as well however their group buff (defense) gives them more avoidance.I would think Minion's resilence at least would have the decency to also raise the physical mitigation of the pet as well. (this is why our pets are squishy)The AA special pet for both summoners needs to be looked at as well. There is a long list of stuff other pet class issues with targeting and otherwise being somewhat unfunctionable in certain raid encounters.The apparent immunity to many group wide effects. Be it heals or group wide buffs but at the same time includes debuffs and other effects like special targeting conditions as well.

Gladiolus

06-11-2009, 06:43 AM

A good summary, you've probably listed most of the reasons you never see anyone asking for a necto to join a group or raid. Most of it seems due to neglect, with abilities having remained the same while the world has changed, so the abilities become as useful as a horse collar on a combine harvester.

Ralniv

06-14-2009, 09:34 PM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>First off, this is a list of problems with our class. The point of this thread is to point out how many unresolved issues we have and hopefully get the devs to wake up.<hr />1) Pet AI - This I admit is a hard one to fix, but Line of sight issues,pathing,casting order etc. Ever time how long it takes for a pet to land it's first spell?? Being able to customize your pets casting order would be nice.I agree, line of sight issues with the Warlock pet are extremely annoying.2) No Shared spell crit/spell damage with our pet! - If pets are a portion of our outgoing damage why must they be gimped? 50% Would be a good base start considering there are items and AA Abilities that could get them closer to 100%I could maybe see 50% shared stats, but shared stats and modifiers with our pet could make us pump out wayyy too much DPS. It could make us extremely OP.3) Slow casting! - I heard our cast times were faster a while ago. Enchanters blow us away and we'd never get TC or UT over a wizard/warlock. Our DoTS should be instant cast considering we have to WAIT AROUND for ticks. This makes no sense to me.Don't really see the issue...we cast pretty fast.4) Way too many DoTS - I understand the RP purpose of necros giving diseases etc. We need more Direct damage nukes! No burst damage means bad zonewides and not much to offer instance groups.Our DPS is neutered becuase of slow casting/and waiting around for our damage while scouts wail away...Necromancers are a sustained DPS class, not a burst DPS class.5) Outdated utility - Hearts used to be cool but my Fabled hearts give 91 power every couple of seconds? Our Rez isn't anything special with it's 45 sec recast. We offer no utility to raids other than casting hearts.Our life transfers could be beefed up to make us support healers like in EQOA. (we'd have like 4-6 necros in a raid helping keep the MT up It was fun)I agree here, hearts could use some beefing up and we need some unique Necro-only utility. At least Conjies have CoTH.6) Ooze Crawler - This thing takes away our pet and and gives us this blind guy that couldnt hit the broadside of a barn.Making it a pet proc would be great!Yep, Ooze Crawler sucks.7) Exploding pet STR AA end ability - We lose our pet again for a WEAK AoE attack? We lose any DPS gains that would give since we have to recast/rebuff our pet. (Never tried this with Dimensional Storage but still can't picture it being useful) This should apply to swarm pets instead.Never specced into it so no opinion.8 )Lifeburn - Fun Ability, but requires too much help from other classes. I'd rather it be a massive DoT that takes our health down to 25% but gets full ticks everytime. I dont see assassins losing all their health from execute... or do I see mobs getting a 30 sec IMMUNITY after assassins big hits.Assassins are a T1 DPS class, they should hit harder than us. Lifeburn is extremely useful as is.9) No Pet gear? - Pets should have equipment slots! Maybe not jewelry, but It'd be a nice touch and would sure help us grab some DPS gains.I disagree, but strictly my opinion.10)Scout Pet/AGI line - No reason to waste money/AA on either one. AGI end line is also a joke.With Mythical pretty much speccing into Tank or Scout pet is completely useless. I like the idea someone suggested of having the Mythical buff whichever pet we have out to Master 4 instead of forcing the Mage on us. (Could definitely see some soloability issues with an M4 tank pet though.)11) Vampirism - This spell needs to be trashed ASAP. Check the broker price, see if anyone uses this junker.Yep, Vampirism sucks. It could at least be AE immune and last the duration. It would still suck though.12) Undead Horde - 15 recast is brutal considering its still casting some undead tide and 1 AoE will remove this spell from the mob.I love this spell, seems to be a nice burst DPS ability. (Could be my imagination since it can't be parsed, but I think it helps significantly.)13) Swarm pets - Are they a DoT? Are they pets? No shared stats? Removable by AoE's? Cast times are also too long on these..Yeah these were good til RoK, something needs to be done.14) Auto- Attack - Scouts get an auto attack thats based on melee. Ours should be ranged and based on spell crit. It'd only be fair. We lose a fair amount of DPS from this alone compared to scouts.I thank Innorouk that I don't have to worry about timing abilities between auto attacks like scouts, don't do this to me please.15) Spell damage/crit bonus - Doesn't seem to help at all, only applies to the first DoT ticks and 50% to our Lifetaps? Why is this fair??!! Crit bonus applies to our sadly low 1st DoT tick resulting in tiny gains. Same applies to Najena's ring of readiness I don't see many DPS gains and wonder if the time spent clicking the proc is wasted.Not sure about crit bonus, but as far as crit chance; everytime my DoTs crit they crit every tick, not just the first.16) Cloth Armor,low HP, low mit, med damage = No real reward for being squishy and having to keep our pet alive also. Our damage just isn't there.Our damage seems fine to me. Note: I'm not a top-end raider. As far as what I do raid and as far as groups go; my DPS is pretty good. I have been told that this becomes more of an issue once you get into top level raids though.17) Drawing of Souls - These are by no means class defining spells, so why can we carry only 1 cast of each? Either make these stackable or smart loot because I only use about half of these, yet I can never keep them all in stock.Never use these personally so no opinion.18 ) Raidwide hearts/Single target hearts - Target already has a necromancer item, The whole ad3/m1 hotbar fiasco. I know this maybe in the works for a fix but it is still annoying when people ask me for hearts because they have ad3 hotbarred and it doesn't register.This is getting fixed <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />This is all I could think of at the moment. Please feel free to add to this list.</blockquote>

Germs666

06-14-2009, 11:07 PM

You should check out the Drawing of Souls abilities.Unstoppable Soul gives you a 16% Max Health Boost for 30 seconds, the duration is lame but this is ideal right before Lifeburn for more damage.

Ralniv

06-15-2009, 03:16 PM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should check out the Drawing of Souls abilities.Unstoppable Soul gives you a 16% Max Health Boost for 30 seconds, the duration is lame but this is ideal right before Lifeburn for more damage.</blockquote>Oh nice, I'll check that out.Thanks =)

Silerua

06-16-2009, 12:14 PM

While I agree that there are some things that could be improved upon, such as AI (Okay, pet, if you can't see it, move until you can. dork!), I find some offense in saying that we're garbage and the worst. d: I thoroughly love playing a necromancer and am really happy with it. Try just sticking to the facts and not using what I consider hyperboles and maybe we'll get taken seriously on some things that really do need a looksies.

Cly

06-16-2009, 03:24 PM

Revanis

06-16-2009, 04:58 PM

Man, this is VERY depressing. I dont' know why I come these forums, but maybe because I have hope for things to improve for us.I got my myth a few weeks back and have pretty decent gear with t2 shard armor. In terms of dps, I seem to be second or third place in the parse, but when it comes to necessity and balance in groups, no one is going to miss necros even if they are removed from the game completely. I've completely lost hope regarding this issue. With the support that SOE has shown necros (/sarcastism), I can gaurantee we'll NEVER see these wishful improvements.

Cly

06-16-2009, 05:15 PM

They have shown support? What other game have you played? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Ralniv

06-16-2009, 07:02 PM

<cite>Clywd wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I agree that there are some things that could be improved upon, such as AI (Okay, pet, if you can't see it, move until you can. dork!), I find some offense in saying that we're garbage and the worst. d: I thoroughly love playing a necromancer and am really happy with it. Try just sticking to the facts and not using what I consider hyperboles and maybe we'll get taken seriously on some things that really do need a looksies.</blockquote>We are patient, friendly and cooperative since two years (at least those that did not leave the game), and nothing happened.</blockquote>If I remember correctly we were terribly overpowered two years ago. Every class has their ups and downs as nerfs and upgrades get too out of hang, but the balance swings; we'll be fixed eventually. (Not that I think we are really that bad off anyway)

Revanis

06-16-2009, 09:27 PM

<cite>Clywd wrote:</cite><blockquote>They have shown support? What other game have you played? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I ment to be sarcastic lol!

Germs666

06-17-2009, 05:01 AM

<cite>Archimond@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Man, this is VERY depressing. I dont' know why I come these forums, but maybe because I have hope for things to improve for us.I got my myth a few weeks back and have pretty decent gear with t2 shard armor. In terms of dps, I seem to be second or third place in the parse, but when it comes to necessity and balance in groups, no one is going to miss necros even if they are removed from the game completely. I've completely lost hope regarding this issue. With the support that SOE has shown necros (/sarcastism), I can gaurantee we'll NEVER see these wishful improvements.</blockquote>We just got nerfed again! I used to be high on the parse but our dirge is putting up 8k while offering insane utility.

Germs666

06-17-2009, 05:06 AM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I agree that there are some things that could be improved upon, such as AI (Okay, pet, if you can't see it, move until you can. dork!), I find some offense in saying that we're garbage and the worst. d: I thoroughly love playing a necromancer and am really happy with it. Try just sticking to the facts and not using what I consider hyperboles and maybe we'll get taken seriously on some things that really do need a looksies.</blockquote>I love playing the necro also, so much that I will not reroll a scout just because it's EZ mode DPS. We are the worst (ok bruiser may be close). Tier 2.5 DPS Tier 4 utility. This is the current state of the class. It may be a hard pill to swallow but those ARE the facts. The list above is the amount of annoyances and bugs that could be fixed.Aeralik just likes to play with our pet graphics instead and nerf our proc damage.

Silerua

06-18-2009, 01:16 AM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love playing the necro also, so much that I will not reroll a scout just because it's EZ mode DPS. We are the worst (ok bruiser may be close). Tier 2.5 DPS Tier 4 utility. This is the current state of the class. It may be a hard pill to swallow but those ARE the facts. The list above is the amount of annoyances and bugs that could be fixed.Aeralik just likes to play with our pet graphics instead and nerf our proc damage.</blockquote>I don't know. Maybe it's because I don't raid, but in the groups that I do run with my guildies, I don't see myself as the worst. *shrug* My pet and I aren't shabby, but I have lower expectations. As far as utility goes, you just need to be creative and we've got some utility. My guildies don't call me the necroercehealepseudotemplassassininja for no reason. (;And how did Aeralik come in to this? I think that's a sketchy accusation and again, we should stick to facts... (says the unofficial dev fangirl, so I guess that makes my statement invalid in people's eyes. sigh!)Again, this probably has to do with me grouping instead of raiding, and because I'm not crazy about the parse. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it before - those who aren't parse crazy are the ones that are low on it. d: But while I'm lower on the parse, I'm doing other utility things. *shrug*

Solarax

06-24-2009, 01:14 AM

i agree with germ unfortunately we are not scheduled to be fixed for more than a year.its pretty bad when today you get told " sorry we filled the spot " and you ask who they took and they say they took a templar because he was higher dps. keep in mind they had an inq in group already.so i got turned down so a group could use a templar that has higher dps ,oh and every spell that matters is master which they knew.

Davngr1

06-24-2009, 01:40 AM

lawl.. there is like a hand full of inquis WW that can maybe keep up with my necro in heroic content.. who ever told you a templar has more dps then a necro is smoking crack.

Jasuo

06-24-2009, 04:51 AM

But sadly there are necros out there doing only 300 zw dps...and I wish I was making that up.

olde english D

06-24-2009, 09:31 AM

We really need LESS input from players like Aurelis,no offense,but were trying to get things changed for the better,you chiming in with yer INEXPERIENCE,just fogs things up. Its obvious, so please.

LaRoseMajia

06-27-2009, 12:26 PM

<cite>olde english D wrote:</cite><blockquote>We really need LESS input from players like Aurelis,no offense,but were trying to get things changed for the better,you chiming in with yer INEXPERIENCE,just fogs things up. Its obvious, so please.</blockquote><<Edit: On a side note, don't judge her "experience" by the joined date on her account. She's using an alternate one to post here.>>Non-Necro here.I am a biiig fan of the necro class. If given the choice between another DPS class with huge DPS capabilities and a Necromancer with the ability to play its class correctly and using every single different facet of its class to the full extent and with the swiftness and perfection that I see Aurelis perform every time we group together, I would choose the Necromancer. Every time, with no hesitation.Have I seen other classes parse higher? Yes. Does that change my opinion? No, no, and no.Olde English D, I can tell you're pretty quick to find a forum and flame on it. You're not alone, there are plenty of trolls and flamers dancing about in the shadows, just waiting to lay the "beat down" on quality people such as Aurelis.Oh yes, I am indeed biased toward her. I am also a very truthful person, evidenced by the fact I openly admit my bias. And when I say that I believe that the group I run with would wilt and die if Aurelis weren't in it and contributing what her class is able to contribute, I mean it truthfully.You can list as many problems you see as you like. None of them change my opinion.At this point, I don't want any other Necromancer than the one I have right now, because this is just seeming to me like proof all the others are foaming at the mouth and staring at their parse rather than playing their class to the fullest extent.Saying that Necromancers are garbage purely because they aren't the best DPSers is equivalent to saying [insert tank class name here] is the worst tank because their aggro ability is crap.When really the problem is the person doesn't know enough to hit the taunt spells.

Nulgara

06-27-2009, 02:02 PM

i dont think anyone is saying that necros that had static groups got kicked form their groups becasue of their dps. your talking about your static group and a necro that shines in that group.what everyone else is talking about are teh core problems wrong with the class, and when the others in this thread are referencing being turned down for groups they are being turned down from pugs solely based on dps not any other reason. THAT is why the class needs fixes. and please tell me what the necro in your gorup is doing during those 15 second fights in groups that warrants them being there, fyi it aint dps. and everything else we can do doesnt mean crap in a 15 second fight. the only time we are even remotely useful is when the crap hits the fan and soemone dies and we hit our rez button before the dirge or priest did.

Jasuo

06-27-2009, 02:51 PM

<cite>Kianiea@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><snip></blockquote>Ignore other necros all you want buddy, but there are problems with the class and posts like yours and hers show the obliviousness to the class that has really become the norm on these official forums and ingame. Pets aren't being kept up in progression and pulling their weight and some spells are still not functioning intelligently (snares that break themselves?).

LaRoseMajia

06-27-2009, 02:58 PM

"THIS Class is Garbage!!! Why the necro has become the WORST class in EQ2"I take issue with that for two reasons. The first being that that particular phrasing has immediately given this thread a very low chance of being read or taken seriously by anyone with the power to do anything. It's drama queen-esque, annoying, and it makes the higher-ups sigh, facepalm, and wander off.The other being the simple fact it's just not that true.I'm not saying - and neither is Aurelis, far as I'm aware - that necros are perfect and nothing should be done/changed/whatever. I'm saying they're in no way the worst class.I'll openly admit I don't know where the issues do or do not lie in the Necromancer class. I don't play one. I know there ARE issues. Every class has issues. I'm focusing on the general picture you guys are laying out right now which is : "Necromancers just suck."But, every class is not meant to fill every role. Why the HECK would we have multiple mages if they all were able to do the same thing? No. Just.. NO.Each class is different and intended to do different things. A dirge isn't crying and moaning because he's not quite as useful to mages and healers. A dirge is intended for one part, and a troubadour is intended for another. Different. Unique. CORRECT.If you want to pull out amazing DPS and roll your eyes at this weird idea of "other skills", then roll another class, because you've picked the wrong one.Otherwise, please, for the sake of the Necromancers who like how their class is, and the people like me who really like how the class is, stop demanding a perfect class, and just go switch to one that'll make you happier.

Jasuo

06-27-2009, 03:10 PM

I'd imagine it has something to do with love of the class and passion? Just because a few of you are happy being gimped and running around spot healing or rezzing doesn't mean the class is ok. The title of the post is a bad choice I can agree but it just comes from every other post being ignored, even when written tastefully. The dev team tried and tried to just sweep the class issues under the rug and keep our posts from the public eye but I have a feeling some emails got sent to a few key people that made it a little hard to keep ignoring us.

Silerua

06-27-2009, 03:18 PM

(*waves at Kianiea*)Not everyone plays the class the same and I understand that. I enjoy my class. Some people don't. However, the main reason I see people complaining about necromancers is because our DPS isn't the highest. That, to me, doesn't mean we're garbage or broken. Class balancing does not mean that every class should be the same. Class balancing means that each class has a strength. Not every class needs to DPS the highest. If we did, then we'd all be the same class, and there wouldn't be a need for all the different classes. Necromancers shine at soloing and that is our strength. Assassins and Wizards can DPS and that is their strength. I picked this class because way back when, I bought a magazine when I was starting out and flipped through it, reading the little paragraph descriptions. It said that necromancers were good at soloing. I picked it because of that. I can dps around 5k and to me, that's more than I expect, especially since I don't try to dps.My opinion being different from yours and not the one you want to hear doesn't make me inexperienced or make my opinion any less valuable. I understand why some people want to DPS higher. I think they should have picked a different class.I also acknowledge there are some things that are a little lacking in our class, like pet AI, but I get around my silly drachnid mage pet just standing there dumbly sometimes by calling her to me. It's one of the first things I do. Summon pet, then go about the rest.I'm sorry that you feel our class is broken and [Removed for Content]. I'm sorry you think I'm not aiding necromancers because I love them the way they are. I'm sorry that you're not happy with us. I'm not sorry that I am happy with us. I'm sorry if that means I'm inexperienced. It's a shame that being happy with a class is negative.I'm never going to get those who feel we are [Removed for Content] to realize that we're not, so if anyone wants to carry this further, you can PM me. This is becoming less about your complaining and misconception about "class balancing," and I don't want to derail.(:

Jasuo

06-27-2009, 04:43 PM

It's ok, maybe you didn't play a necro during DoF, KoS or EoF when they were actually high dps and still able to spot heal and rez as well so you wouldn't have seen the class go from that to what it is now.

LaRoseMajia

06-27-2009, 04:50 PM

<cite>Jasuo wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's ok, maybe you didn't play a necro during DoF, KoS or EoF when they were actually high dps and still able to spot heal and rez as well so you wouldn't have seen the class go from that to what it is now.</blockquote>She did, thank you.

Germs666

06-27-2009, 10:05 PM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>(*waves at Kianiea*)Not everyone plays the class the same and I understand that. I enjoy my class. Some people don't. However, the main reason I see people complaining about necromancers is because our DPS isn't the highest. That, to me, doesn't mean we're garbage or broken. Class balancing does not mean that every class should be the same. Class balancing means that each class has a strength. Not every class needs to DPS the highest. If we did, then we'd all be the same class, and there wouldn't be a need for all the different classes. Necromancers shine at soloing and that is our strength. Assassins and Wizards can DPS and that is their strength. I picked this class because way back when, I bought a magazine when I was starting out and flipped through it, reading the little paragraph descriptions. It said that necromancers were good at soloing. I picked it because of that. I can dps around 5k and to me, that's more than I expect, especially since I don't try to dps.My opinion being different from yours and not the one you want to hear doesn't make me inexperienced or make my opinion any less valuable. I understand why some people want to DPS higher. I think they should have picked a different class.I also acknowledge there are some things that are a little lacking in our class, like pet AI, but I get around my silly drachnid mage pet just standing there dumbly sometimes by calling her to me. It's one of the first things I do. Summon pet, then go about the rest.I'm sorry that you feel our class is broken and [Removed for Content]. I'm sorry you think I'm not aiding necromancers because I love them the way they are. I'm sorry that you're not happy with us. I'm not sorry that I am happy with us. I'm sorry if that means I'm inexperienced. It's a shame that being happy with a class is negative.I'm never going to get those who feel we are [Removed for Content] to realize that we're not, so if anyone wants to carry this further, you can PM me. This is becoming less about your complaining and misconception about "class balancing," and I don't want to derail.(:</blockquote>I listed 18 reasons why need fixing! Can you list 18 why we do not? If we dont have the utility of an Illy/Coercer and they can put up equal or more DPS then why would anyone want a summoner instead of a chanter?

Silerua

06-27-2009, 10:50 PM

No one ever PMs me when I say to PM me. d: Okay, so I checked back. We're even.1) We totally own at soloing. That SHOULD be the ending factor right there, because that is what our class's strength is. We don't need to be awesome at everything.1-a) Tainted Heals. This counts in with soloing so I'm tying it into it, but I love TH so much that I'm throwing it here anyway.2) Lifeburn. Have a good healer backing you up and it's pretty cool. I see your point about relying on other classes. It'd be neat if all classes could depend on only themselves, like tanks not needing healers. d; Sometimes, we have to learn to get along.3) Also tying into AA is Blood Pact. I wish conjurors had a similar ability because I loved my Blood Pact. My current pet, the drachnid from our myth, has enough health on her that I don't usually have to worry.4) Another AA. Dimensional Storage. It *would* be nice if it allowed for the pet buffs to carry over, but it doesn't take that long to cast them, anyway.5) In groups, it is possible to act as a mini-coercer. Not as effective as the real thing, obviously. This is increased in places with undead mobs, but still capable without using Control Undead.6) I can do 5k dps without focusing on DPS and doing the utility that I feel I can provide. And if you had better gear than me, paid attention to the casting order, and did all the min/max stuff, then I can only imagine this increasing. For a class that I believe is a soloing class, that's just fine.7) We have a 100%, 12-hour FD. I love this both on an RP level (masters of death know how to imitate it perfectly) and on a utility level. It's a slow flop with the recast, but I can flop. And it saves me lots of times.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> The FD is also useful when the group is wiping and I can use my equally useful Revivication. Revivication is also a group-saver for me. I can't count the times the healer or tank died and I could pop them right back up and we continued on with the fight.9) While I'm tabbing away to do utility things, whether they be faux-coercing, healing, reviving, or even not tabbing away but not DPSing and instead debuffing, I am DPSing by proxy - my pet (and DoTs). We can DPS *AND* be utility at the *same time*!10) I don't notice any problem with casting *time*. Reuse is slow, but that's because it's DoT. As far as gear goes, I focus on "Increases Pet __" instead of reuse things. However, I see that I have 5% casting increase according to my Persona window.11) There is so much "Increases Pet ___" gear! Goodness! I've seen a lot of necromancers wearing things that decrease reuse, casting, and other buffs and procs that focus on ourselves. I don't know if this benefits people, but there seems to be a great deal of that gear that if that's what you want, you can go for it... I, on the other hand, feel that since we're a summoner class, our pet is our main focus. It is mine. Charlotte, my mage pet, is happy with her increased stats from all the gear and AA that is available to us. My tank pet, Harvey, is also content with his increased health, bone shield, etc.Crap. I can't think of 18. You're right, we're garbage and the worst class! d:[EDIT: And, yes, I have played through all of those expansions. Aurelis herself was created in 2006, but my character before her was made in 2005. I have not played since the beginning of EQ2. If that is the requirement to have a valid opinion and not be inexperienced, then darn. d: This particular account has my join date as 2009 because I hated my forum name for my real account.]

Nulgara

06-28-2009, 02:25 AM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>No one ever PMs me when I say to PM me. d: Okay, so I checked back. We're even.1) We totally own at soloing. That SHOULD be the ending factor right there, because that is what our class's strength is. We don't need to be awesome at everything.1-a) Tainted Heals. This counts in with soloing so I'm tying it into it, but I love TH so much that I'm throwing it here anyway.2) Lifeburn. Have a good healer backing you up and it's pretty cool. I see your point about relying on other classes. It'd be neat if all classes could depend on only themselves, like tanks not needing healers. d; Sometimes, we have to learn to get along.3) Also tying into AA is Blood Pact. I wish conjurors had a similar ability because I loved my Blood Pact. My current pet, the drachnid from our myth, has enough health on her that I don't usually have to worry.4) Another AA. Dimensional Storage. It *would* be nice if it allowed for the pet buffs to carry over, but it doesn't take that long to cast them, anyway.5) In groups, it is possible to act as a mini-coercer. Not as effective as the real thing, obviously. This is increased in places with undead mobs, but still capable without using Control Undead.6) I can do 5k dps without focusing on DPS and doing the utility that I feel I can provide. And if you had better gear than me, paid attention to the casting order, and did all the min/max stuff, then I can only imagine this increasing. For a class that I believe is a soloing class, that's just fine.7) We have a 100%, 12-hour FD. I love this both on an RP level (masters of death know how to imitate it perfectly) and on a utility level. It's a slow flop with the recast, but I can flop. And it saves me lots of times.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> The FD is also useful when the group is wiping and I can use my equally useful Revivication. Revivication is also a group-saver for me. I can't count the times the healer or tank died and I could pop them right back up and we continued on with the fight.9) While I'm tabbing away to do utility things, whether they be faux-coercing, healing, reviving, or even not tabbing away but not DPSing and instead debuffing, I am DPSing by proxy - my pet (and DoTs). We can DPS *AND* be utility at the *same time*!10) I don't notice any problem with casting *time*. Reuse is slow, but that's because it's DoT. As far as gear goes, I focus on "Increases Pet __" instead of reuse things. However, I see that I have 5% casting increase according to my Persona window.11) There is so much "Increases Pet ___" gear! Goodness! I've seen a lot of necromancers wearing things that decrease reuse, casting, and other buffs and procs that focus on ourselves. I don't know if this benefits people, but there seems to be a great deal of that gear that if that's what you want, you can go for it... I, on the other hand, feel that since we're a summoner class, our pet is our main focus. It is mine. Charlotte, my mage pet, is happy with her increased stats from all the gear and AA that is available to us. My tank pet, Harvey, is also content with his increased health, bone shield, etc.Crap. I can't think of 18. You're right, we're garbage and the worst class! d:[EDIT: And, yes, I have played through all of those expansions. Aurelis herself was created in 2006, but my character before her was made in 2005. I have not played since the beginning of EQ2. If that is the requirement to have a valid opinion and not be inexperienced, then darn. d: This particular account has my join date as 2009 because I hated my forum name for my real account.]</blockquote>Direct responses1. I dont think anyone ever said we couldnt solo we are one of the best at doing it, but since that seems to be your focus. tell me why then I watched a coercer earlier today solo 4 82+ 3up heroic mobs at once and never got hit.. I cant do that, oh and he does more dps then i do while doing it. oh and lets not forget my SK that dominates my necro solo, oh and he does 2x the dps my necor does both solo in groups and in raids. tell us again why we shoudl be limited to soloing when there are classes that do that better then us too.but i agree tainted heals is awesome for soloing2. Lifeburn. yeah great ability adds a whole wopping 250ish dps on a heroic named, cause guess what in a group why on earth woudl a healer bother healing you the tank is more important, raids yeah its great if you get a solid healer in your group to cover you.anyway NOT a singature move liek it used to be. for a 21 point cost its pathetic actually.3. agree blood pact is cool and liek you said once you get myth its no longer needed4. Dim Storage, useful on raids if your pet gets toasted by an ae also useful solo. limited use in groups if your tank si doing there job you will never need to hit the button in a group.5. sorry I have to lol at your mini-coercer comment, we dont even equate to a mini-bard cc. Stun is great yes but you aint locking up a mob for any decent amount of time with it. highly useful for giving the healers a few secs to get tank back up to full after a mean crit though. fear breaks .5 secs after you cast it cause everyone is still hiting the mob. same with root.6. wow too bad the mystic in my guild does 5k .. nothing like getting outdps by a healer thats parsing 5k dps and 4k+ hps at the same time.and jsut cause you believe its a soloing class doesnt mean thats what it was designed for. lots of classes can solo jsut as well if nto better then we can so your theory doesnt hold water.7. true 100% fd is cool, but hey my monk has a 97% fd that he can recast every 10 secs and he does more dps then ym necro in teh same gear quality. oh and hes a tank.but sure in groups when crap hits fan yes the fd rez combo is nice, but that really is our most useful utility, perosnally i measure utility as something that has an effect on actual fights not getting up after the fact, a tinkerer can do the same thing to get a group up btw.9. We can DPS*AND*be utility... lemme fix that for you.. We can watch our pet DPS* while we pretend we have utility thats worthwhile in teh current game.10. cant really agree or disagree on this one soulrot is the only spell i wish had a faster casting time.11. to each their own on this one, personally i try and wear a mix of pet gear and self gear.dont get me wrong im not disregarding your experience with the class and if you are comfortable with it liek it is, then that fine. but take a step back and look back to those old dev posts and such that state where each classes dps and utility are supposed ot be. if my dps on my necro is to remain LESS THEN 4 of the 6 TANKS dps then i better have some sick debuffs and utility but guess what i dont. we are supposed ot be a dual t2 class but were not. I'm certainly not asking for assassin or wizard level dps but we dang sure better be above enchanters who have the best utility in the game and better dps then 90% of summoners when they are in inferior gear in comparison.EVERY class when played well shoudl be abel to warrant a spot in a group or raid. and guess what summoners and a few other classes dont fit the bill. when groups and raids will take another healer cause they outdps you and out heal you and out debuff you and your primary job is dps theres a serious frikin problem. whether you see that problem or not in teh times you are playing your character doesnt mean those problems dont exist, cause i can garauntee you that when it comes ot pugs full of people that dont know you, I'ld bet 500p that they woudl take a brawler before they took you.

Dejaentendu

06-28-2009, 03:11 PM

I complete disagree that necromancers are the worst class in the game, however we do have nothing desirable to be wanted/needed in a raid/group.First off, all you complaining necros about dps... you either have no idea what a good spell order for dots is or have crappy gear. I parse 8-12k on a regular basis on a raid. Usually requires Lifeburn to reach 10k or higher.I heard an idea that Shield of Bone AA ability would be changed from a pet a buff to a group member single target stoneskin ability. I completely love this idea! Perfect for a mage group to toss on a wizard, or in a group to toss on the tank. By altering this one AA ability, I feel necromancers would have that utility they need for a spot in a raid. Especially with chanter/bard buffs to be distributed to raid more evenly to allow room for other classes that lack this excess of utility.Hearts, FD, and lame revive ARE NOT DESIREABLE for any raid. The one reason why I have a spot luckily is because I dps right below the sorcerors.

Jasuo

06-28-2009, 04:38 PM

You necros claiming we're all fine and good, do you regularly clear Ykesha's Inner Stronghold or Palace of the Ancient One? Avatars? What are the support classes parsing in those same raids? We don't all just sit around and find joy soloing and the character creation screen didn't say "choose this class for pure solo joy!" Some of us like raiding content on our necros and want to be made more viable as an option for that raiding role.

Sosum

06-28-2009, 09:11 PM

<cite>Jasuo wrote:</cite><blockquote>You necros claiming we're all fine and good, do you regularly clear Ykesha's Inner Stronghold or Palace of the Ancient One? Avatars? What are the support classes parsing in those same raids? We don't all just sit around and find joy soloing and the character creation screen didn't say "choose this class for pure solo joy!" Some of us like raiding content on our necros and want to be made more viable as an option for that raiding role.</blockquote>QFTdiscalimer: Im no where near the kill ability of Scio but do miss raiding on necro and its painfully clear how poor our role is for raids.Revamp will fix soe of that at least according to panel at FF.

Davngr1

06-29-2009, 03:18 AM

<cite>Sosumya@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jasuo wrote:</cite><blockquote>You necros claiming we're all fine and good, do you regularly clear Ykesha's Inner Stronghold or Palace of the Ancient One? Avatars? What are the support classes parsing in those same raids? We don't all just sit around and find joy soloing and the character creation screen didn't say "choose this class for pure solo joy!" Some of us like raiding content on our necros and want to be made more viable as an option for that raiding role.</blockquote>QFTdiscalimer: Im no where near the kill ability of Scio but do miss raiding on necro and its painfully clear how poor our role is for raids.Revamp will fix soe of that at least according to panel at FF.</blockquote>and you're a frog too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" />

Lakroh

07-01-2009, 04:33 PM