Nerf to Templar Mythical and reactives [Archive]

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GeForceTony

05-27-2009, 05:45 AM

On Live (5-27-2009):<img src="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3843/eq2000001.jpg" width="981" height="688" />On TEST (5-27-2009):<img src="http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1235/eq2000002e.jpg" />I thought it was an oops at first, reading that it effects Vital Intercession IV (meaning 3 tiers old) but it seems that it effects that tier and higher. Why such a nerf? Why no longer does it effect our group reactive, yet still BOTH the single-target and group reactives still cast Supplicant's Prayer on Test, so there was no need for a change to the Mythical.There has also been nothing said about the Templar Shadow endline ("healing stance") which has been discussed, ad nauseum, here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=440459" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=440459</a>

Kalliand

05-27-2009, 06:06 AM

Hopefully just a mess up with the name changing going on.

Kilaelya

05-27-2009, 06:23 AM

It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".

Noaani

05-27-2009, 06:28 AM

<cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>Its not a spelling error, they changed an effect that didn't need to be changed.The templar mythical affects the reactive portion of both the single target and group reactive heals for the templar. These are essentially spells within a spell. The templar casts the reactive as a buff on the target, and when it triggers the proc is called Supplicants Prayer. This is the effect the templar mythical affects on live.Basically, they need to revert this portion of the tamplar mythical back to what it is on live.

Kilaelya

05-27-2009, 06:32 AM

Oh duh! Well it seems like someone wasn't paying attention <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" />

GeForceTony

05-27-2009, 06:35 AM

<cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>That too. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kalliand

05-27-2009, 12:22 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>Its not a spelling error, they changed an effect that didn't need to be changed.The templar mythical affects the reactive portion of both the single target and group reactive heals for the templar. These are essentially spells within a spell. The templar casts the reactive as a buff on the target, and when it triggers the proc is called Supplicants Prayer. This is the effect the templar mythical affects on live.Basically, they need to revert this portion of the tamplar mythical back to what it is on live.</blockquote>Err..it's very plain that it's a spelling error.

Arturoz

05-27-2009, 12:26 PM

isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit..

EQPrime

05-27-2009, 12:31 PM

This is either an accidental change when they renamed all the spells or else a huge nerf. They need to change it back. If they need to use the dumbed-down naming conventions they're implementing then they need to make sure it includes boosts to both solo and group reactives.While they're at it they need to address our healing stance.

R/T93

05-27-2009, 12:34 PM

I just hope this doesnt get looked over and forgotten like our heal stance was.

Freliant

05-27-2009, 12:36 PM

<cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote>isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit.. </blockquote>24 classes, x 30+ spells per tier, x 8 tiers = 5760 spells/heals/combat arts... Start multiplying that by the different effects that change different skills and items, and the total number becomes astronomical. If you think you are a super human that can do all those changes without missing a beat, then please, say so... but if you are like us, a human prone to mistakes even when you do your best, then keep quiet and do what the OP did... post the small bugs you see and let them know what they have missed.While we only play one or 2 classes regularly, the devs have to change and edit all 24 classes at once, as well as every single item for those classes, and not just the ones that you have equipped currently.To the OP, change your title to read [bug] Templar mythical is not boosting reactives. That will get more attention from the devs, and also will bring a more decent responce from players and not a "devs suxxors" like the prior poster, which does absolutely nothing to get the issue addressed.

EQPrime

05-27-2009, 12:44 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote>isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit.. </blockquote>24 classes, x 30+ spells per tier, x 8 tiers = 5760 spells/heals/combat arts... Start multiplying that by the different effects that change different skills and items, and the total number becomes astronomical. If you think you are a super human that can do all those changes without missing a beat, then please, say so... but if you are like us, a human prone to mistakes even when you do your best, then keep quiet and do what the OP did... post the small bugs you see and let them know what they have missed.While we only play one or 2 classes regularly, the devs have to change and edit all 24 classes at once, as well as every single item for those classes, and not just the ones that you have equipped currently.To the OP, change your title to read [bug] Templar mythical is not boosting reactives. That will get more attention from the devs, and also will bring a more decent responce from players and not a "devs suxxors" like the prior poster, which does absolutely nothing to get the issue addressed.</blockquote>24 classes, 24 mythical epics that almost all raiders in TSO will be using = 24 items to check before you worry about anything else. Mythicals should never get broken and should be the first items tested, you know when they run through their completely thorough QA process. They've screwed up the warden mythical a couple of times now. The screw up on the templar mythical would have taken all of 10 seconds to test.Fabled epics should be next in line for testing, as most of the people at level 80 who don't have mythicals at least have the fabled version.

MoonSorceror

05-27-2009, 12:47 PM

In case nobody has looked at the values yet - this is a huge nerf for 25% of the Healing Power of our two best heals! - thanks a lot! Problems I see are the following:- Mythical changed from adding 20% of WIS to single & group reactive to affect single reactive only - obvious nerf- Typo in the name of the affected spell on the mythical- The single reactive is not buffed either - this might be due to the typo

Aeralik

05-27-2009, 01:15 PM

I'll get that fixed today so there is no change with that due to the update. I changed a lot of underlying data that was shared between spells like the templar single and group reactives. That way later on we can scale one without scaling the other if needed.

Noaani

05-27-2009, 02:16 PM

<cite>Kaiser@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>Its not a spelling error, they changed an effect that didn't need to be changed.The templar mythical affects the reactive portion of both the single target and group reactive heals for the templar. These are essentially spells within a spell. The templar casts the reactive as a buff on the target, and when it triggers the proc is called Supplicants Prayer. This is the effect the templar mythical affects on live.Basically, they need to revert this portion of the tamplar mythical back to what it is on live.</blockquote>Err..it's very plain that it's a spelling error.</blockquote>Only if you consider going from "increases the heal amount of Supplicant's Prayer" on live right now, to "increases the heal amount of Vital Intersession IV" on test to be a spelling error.Even though Intercession is spelt wrong, fixing that will not at all fix the issue. The item was altered on test to affect the individual spell instead of the effect. Since Vital Intercession does not do any healing (seriously, try and find it on ACT), increasing the heal amount of it does nothing.

Aule

05-27-2009, 02:21 PM

Please stop posting about the "nerf" now that Aeralik stated he'll be fixing it today.

Kalliand

05-27-2009, 02:21 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll get that fixed today so there is no change with that due to the update. I changed a lot of underlying data that was shared between spells like the templar single and group reactives. That way later on we can scale one without scaling the other if needed.</blockquote>How is this change going to effect Templars? Should they expect a decrease in heals for either category?

Noaani

05-27-2009, 02:26 PM

<cite>Kaiser@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll get that fixed today so there is no change with that due to the update. I changed a lot of underlying data that was shared between spells like the templar single and group reactives. That way later on we can scale one without scaling the other if needed.</blockquote>How is this change going to effect Templars? Should they expect a decrease in heals for either category?</blockquote>If he knew now, he wouldn't need to say "later on" or "if needed", would he?

Arturoz

05-27-2009, 03:38 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote>isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit.. </blockquote>24 classes, x 30+ spells per tier, x 8 tiers = 5760 spells/heals/combat arts... Start multiplying that by the different effects that change different skills and items, and the total number becomes astronomical. If you think you are a super human that can do all those changes without missing a beat, then please, say so... but if you are like us, a human prone to mistakes even when you do your best, then keep quiet and do what the OP did... post the small bugs you see and let them know what they have missed.While we only play one or 2 classes regularly, the devs have to change and edit all 24 classes at once, as well as every single item for those classes, and not just the ones that you have equipped currently.To the OP, change your title to read [bug] Templar mythical is not boosting reactives. That will get more attention from the devs, and also will bring a more decent responce from players and not a "devs suxxors" like the prior poster, which does absolutely nothing to get the issue addressed.</blockquote>first off thank goodness that it will be fixed thank you for that.. as to this guy here, um yes i do expect them to get it right, as much as the people that i work for expect me to get my work right the first time. How can you claim to take pride in your work if you allow simple mistakes to just float by with an oh well 1 out of 5760 aint bad.. Because of that one mistake now that entire job's quality is now suspect. Sure they will fix it.. But for pete's sake to miss something that mundain.. thats like forgetting ur dogs name after you have had him for 5 years... um come here sparky or rex or HEY U! Do i hold the devs to a high standard u darn right i do.. Are they human? yup.. do they fail? oh heck ya.. If we all just said oh well and rationlize mistakes like you do, imagine how bad this game would be.. If we dont hold them accountable who will?

Freliant

05-27-2009, 03:51 PM

<cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote>isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit.. </blockquote>24 classes, x 30+ spells per tier, x 8 tiers = 5760 spells/heals/combat arts... Start multiplying that by the different effects that change different skills and items, and the total number becomes astronomical. If you think you are a super human that can do all those changes without missing a beat, then please, say so... but if you are like us, a human prone to mistakes even when you do your best, then keep quiet and do what the OP did... post the small bugs you see and let them know what they have missed.While we only play one or 2 classes regularly, the devs have to change and edit all 24 classes at once, as well as every single item for those classes, and not just the ones that you have equipped currently.To the OP, change your title to read [bug] Templar mythical is not boosting reactives. That will get more attention from the devs, and also will bring a more decent responce from players and not a "devs suxxors" like the prior poster, which does absolutely nothing to get the issue addressed.</blockquote>first off thank goodness that it will be fixed thank you for that.. as to this guy here, um yes i do expect them to get it right, as much as the people that i work for expect me to get my work right the first time. How can you claim to take pride in your work if you allow simple mistakes to just float by with an oh well 1 out of 5760 aint bad.. Because of that one mistake now that entire job's quality is now suspect. Sure they will fix it.. But for pete's sake to miss something that mundain.. thats like forgetting ur dogs name after you have had him for 5 years... um come here sparky or rex or HEY U! Do i hold the devs to a high standard u darn right i do.. Are they human? yup.. do they fail? oh heck ya.. If we all just said oh well and rationlize mistakes like you do, imagine how bad this game would be.. If we dont hold them accountable who will? </blockquote>I bolded and colored 2 responses you should read.If we did what I said, the game would be astronomically better, since people would post their suspected bugs instead of just crying nerf, and devs suck, like your initial post stated.You should be more humble and admit your post was just off the mark and you jumped to accusing the devs of being underhanded and not knowing their game, and not covering it up by saying "I was right, and they were wrong, and if I don't shout, they wont hear."I played on beta and play on test/test_copy and they listen to feedback much quicker when you do a /bug and /feedback in game than most people would have you believe. The problem is, that some people just do /bug "xyz is broken, fix" and do not give the underlying problem either because they don't know, or because they don't bother to test it out to find it.I digress though, good to see the bug is being fixed.

Lord Hackenslash

05-27-2009, 04:45 PM

<cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>X-NYDOTer wrote:</cite><blockquote>isnt it refreshing when you realize just how much the devs dont know about our own class... I mean really? This reminds me of school when the teachers used to pound into our heads "DOUBLE CHECK UR WORK!!!!" ya we got the ones that didnt learn that lesson... /thumbs up /rolls eyes what is sad is all we can really test and catch are the simple mistakes like spelling/grammar and obvious errors.. There is no telling how borked this game is behind the scenes.. I wish there was a way we could request a quality audit.. U know have some expert come in and run a quick code audit.. </blockquote>24 classes, x 30+ spells per tier, x 8 tiers = 5760 spells/heals/combat arts... Start multiplying that by the different effects that change different skills and items, and the total number becomes astronomical. If you think you are a super human that can do all those changes without missing a beat, then please, say so... but if you are like us, a human prone to mistakes even when you do your best, then keep quiet and do what the OP did... post the small bugs you see and let them know what they have missed.While we only play one or 2 classes regularly, the devs have to change and edit all 24 classes at once, as well as every single item for those classes, and not just the ones that you have equipped currently.To the OP, change your title to read [bug] Templar mythical is not boosting reactives. That will get more attention from the devs, and also will bring a more decent responce from players and not a "devs suxxors" like the prior poster, which does absolutely nothing to get the issue addressed.</blockquote>first off thank goodness that it will be fixed thank you for that.. as to this guy here, um yes i do expect them to get it right, as much as the people that i work for expect me to get my work right the first time. How can you claim to take pride in your work if you allow simple mistakes to just float by with an oh well 1 out of 5760 aint bad.. Because of that one mistake now that entire job's quality is now suspect. Sure they will fix it.. But for pete's sake to miss something that mundain.. thats like forgetting ur dogs name after you have had him for 5 years... um come here sparky or rex or HEY U! Do i hold the devs to a high standard u darn right i do.. Are they human? yup.. do they fail? oh heck ya.. If we all just said oh well and rationlize mistakes like you do, imagine how bad this game would be.. If we dont hold them accountable who will? </blockquote>This is a test server you are on. it exists for the sole purpose of checking the work before it goes live. I hope you make explosives for a living cause the way you treat a simple mistake would be pretty insane unless you were involved in al life or death industry. Relax, have a latte and send in your bug reports and feedback so they can fix it without drama. Save your panic attacks for the live server when the work is actually done.

Kalliand

05-27-2009, 04:58 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaiser@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>Its not a spelling error, they changed an effect that didn't need to be changed.The templar mythical affects the reactive portion of both the single target and group reactive heals for the templar. These are essentially spells within a spell. The templar casts the reactive as a buff on the target, and when it triggers the proc is called Supplicants Prayer. This is the effect the templar mythical affects on live.Basically, they need to revert this portion of the tamplar mythical back to what it is on live.</blockquote>Err..it's very plain that it's a spelling error.</blockquote>Only if you consider going from "increases the heal amount of Supplicant's Prayer" on live right now, to "increases the heal amount of Vital Intersession IV" on test to be a spelling error.Even though Intercession is spelt wrong, fixing that will not at all fix the issue. The item was altered on test to affect the individual spell instead of the effect. Since Vital Intercession does not do any healing (seriously, try and find it on ACT), increasing the heal amount of it does nothing.</blockquote>Umm, perhaps vital intercession is not on the parse because vital intercession simply casts supplicants prayer on target of spell.

Noaani

05-27-2009, 05:07 PM

<cite>Kaiser@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaiser@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kilaelya wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's a typo. I have reported it.The mythical spells it "Vital INTERSESSION" while the name of the spell is "Vital INTERCESSION".</blockquote>Its not a spelling error, they changed an effect that didn't need to be changed.The templar mythical affects the reactive portion of both the single target and group reactive heals for the templar. These are essentially spells within a spell. The templar casts the reactive as a buff on the target, and when it triggers the proc is called Supplicants Prayer. This is the effect the templar mythical affects on live.Basically, they need to revert this portion of the tamplar mythical back to what it is on live.</blockquote>Err..it's very plain that it's a spelling error.</blockquote>Only if you consider going from "increases the heal amount of Supplicant's Prayer" on live right now, to "increases the heal amount of Vital Intersession IV" on test to be a spelling error.Even though Intercession is spelt wrong, fixing that will not at all fix the issue. The item was altered on test to affect the individual spell instead of the effect. Since Vital Intercession does not do any healing (seriously, try and find it on ACT), increasing the heal amount of it does nothing.</blockquote>Umm, perhaps vital intercession is not on the parse because vital intercession simply casts supplicants prayer on target of spell.</blockquote>Umm, I know that, hence the post where I pointed out what the issue was, and the reason I said the bolded/underlined/colored/upsized portion in that post.Try this again...The issue is that the mythical was altered from affecting Supplicant's Prayer (which is the heal portion of both single target and group reactives), to affecting Vital Intercession IV, which is the T8 templar single target reactive. Since Vital Intercession does not do any healing, even if it wern't for the spelling mistake, the effect on the mythical would simply have no effect if it was trying to apply to Vital Intercession IV.

Uilamin

05-29-2009, 12:53 PM

oops misread the post, thought it was about the difference between the group and single target reactive, not the myth spell trigger.

ShamusOB

06-01-2009, 04:12 PM

So can we have a better awnser on this issue?Are we going to have the same reactives we have on live with our mythical equiped? Make it effect both reactives the way it used to and work please. The way it is on test cannot go live because its a giant nerf to templars.

Obadiah

06-01-2009, 04:15 PM

<cite>ShamusOB wrote:</cite><blockquote>So can we have a better awnser on this issue?Are we going to have the same reactives we have on live with our mythical equiped? Make it effect both reactives the way it used to and work please. The way it is on test cannot go live because its a giant nerf to templars.</blockquote>A better answer than "Oops, I'll fix that"?

Queen Alexandria

06-01-2009, 09:27 PM

I'm sorry guys but there is too much more important things to work on and the code involved in fixing this is going to take a rewriting of the whole templar class. I'm sorry, it just won't happen. There is not enough time nor money to hire more developers to take on such an exhausting task. Please just accept this error and move on. /sarcasm off

Kiara

06-01-2009, 09:45 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll get that fixed today so there is no change with that due to the update. I changed a lot of underlying data that was shared between spells like the templar single and group reactives. That way later on we can scale one without scaling the other if needed.</blockquote>Just in case folks missed this before...And I'm locking this down since there wasn't a nerf (and things have devolved into bickering). There was a mistake that's corrected.Thanks for the feedback.