Kurn's Tower (group X2): Combat [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Tympist

05-28-2009, 06:02 PM

Ok just got done with an attempt. Got to the barron then gave up. We pulled him had him 5 to 10 % dead then he poped adds they proceaded to kick our back sides. The adds were yellow. Once wiped the adds reset into an orange mob of the same group. (Bug maybe?) Anyways our tank was a bruiser in nearly all tso fabled set gear (t4 since dev's seem to not know what the term means.) We had decent heals and a fairly balanced raid. (No bards sadly but other then that was a decent setup.)MT: bruiser, warden, assassin, templar, defiler, coercerOT: SK, wiz, necro or conj (cant remember which i know it was a summoner.), warden, brig, Illi.For the most part we were t2 geared with fabled epic. Thank god for the tank and the assassin haven nearly full t4 sets otherwise this would have been a wipe since anyone else close to the mobs when an aoe went off were nearly oneshotted if not oneshotted. Would say t3 would be ideal for going in here since from time to time you did survive with t2. In that reguard the zones spot on so far. Will be testen it in the days to come and will remark on anything else i see.On a side note mythicals arnt a must except for maybe tanks for surviveability and tanking purpaces.

Dreadr

05-28-2009, 07:58 PM

this goes out to the devs from what isaw inthat zone those mons were to tough for t2 geared people irecomend a raid gear buffer im recomending a buffer like fluffy as ive been told he gives out the TSO raid set masters mythical weaponry and other item's of raid importanceo r so ive heard if this is true give the gm the ok to spawn this buffer to test out the higher content and just copying your toon over wont help if you dont have an 80 with epic gear and if it werent for that gear on our assassin and bruiser wed have wiped completely today -.- for the sake of testing spawn the raid buffer! please!

Tympist

05-28-2009, 09:32 PM

<cite>Dreadral@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>this goes out to the devs from what isaw inthat zone those mons were to tough for t2 geared people irecomend a raid gear buffer im recomending a buffer like fluffy as ive been told he gives out the TSO raid set masters mythical weaponry and other item's of raid importanceo r so ive heard if this is true give the gm the ok to spawn this buffer to test out the higher content and just copying your toon over wont help if you dont have an 80 with epic gear and if it werent for that gear on our assassin and bruiser wed have wiped completely today -.- for the sake of testing spawn the raid buffer! please!</blockquote>Fluffy is overkill to be honest. Just pop one that gives t1/t2 raid jewelery and t3 armor with a 50% random between fabled epic and mythical epic.

Klaktar

05-29-2009, 04:05 AM

The devs specifically said this zone was meant to be considerably harder than WoE, and meant for people with TSO raid gear, mythicals, etc. Get better.

feldon30

05-29-2009, 12:37 PM

They haven't specifically told us the target audience for this zone, but I am thinking full fabled/mythical weapon. It is NOT a step up from WoE. It is a mountain climb up from WoE.

timetravelling

05-29-2009, 02:46 PM

My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!

feldon30

05-29-2009, 02:55 PM

Interesting. I did not expect that at all. Glad to see the slight increase in the time between adds on Dayakara. Truthfully, we have just been farming the first 3 named as our main focus atm is Kunark and mythicals.

Yimway

05-29-2009, 04:21 PM

I'm trying like heck to get 11 others from guild to testcopy, patch and help me run it. With any luck I'll have some feedback by monday.

Tympist

05-29-2009, 04:27 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Well i dont think there too hard its mainly when they pop they knock out the group 1 healers almost instantly. the tank had no time to get them. Now im not sure if this was due to gear i would say it had a part since we were all in t2 and were haven a hard time keeping alive when aoe's hit. At any given time i would say only one of us was able to heal given the others were reviven the fallen.

Malaqai

06-04-2009, 10:58 AM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?

Ashlian

06-04-2009, 11:22 AM

<cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?</blockquote>Precisely. What, exactly, is the point of the x2 raids? At the current difficulty of WOE and the current loot given, all I hear from the raiders progressing in current x4 content is that it is "cake" and the gear "sucks". If they get anything at all, it's for appearance.Whereas those of us for whom the gear is actually an upgrade are oftentimes forced to take pickups, because we don't run in large enough guilds to field full x4 raids on current content. Now, I could simply farm plat every day and buy nearly every piece of TSO x4 that I might want with a few exceptions, because the fabled selling market on my server is going gangbusters. Not advocating that, btw, simply stating that for a lot of people I know, even those termed successful casual raiders, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy your gear than it is to struggle for hours with encounters tuned one notch higher than a pickup group can handle. My boyfriend's guild is working on the first few named in every TSO raid zone now, and most of them would rather be shot than do WoE, because for them it simply is not worth it.I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.If you've tuned this x2 to leave off where WoE started, you've A) missed the mark completely for true raiders, as it will yet again be labeled "cake" and B) missed the mark for anyone trying to raid who can't complete x4 content. So....I'll ask again, what's the point? There's perhaps 3-5% of the population that can successfully field a really well geared x2 force but NOT a x4 force. As it requires completing x4 content to get to the really well geared point. Frankly, I find VP raids with my raid alliance less challenging than trying to pull together the perfect and perfectly geared x2 force.There truly is a point to x2 starter raids for smaller guilds and alliances, and SOE simply has never come close to providing that. Instead, you get zones tuned to that fine point where casuals struggle miserably and raiders are bored brainless, if they even go since the gear is a downgrade. So.....what's the point, exactly?

feldon30

06-04-2009, 11:27 AM

<cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished.</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?</blockquote>Asked and answered.

Dasein

06-04-2009, 11:34 AM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?</blockquote>Precisely. What, exactly, is the point of the x2 raids? At the current difficulty of WOE and the current loot given, all I hear from the raiders progressing in current x4 content is that it is "cake" and the gear "sucks". If they get anything at all, it's for appearance.Whereas those of us for whom the gear is actually an upgrade are oftentimes forced to take pickups, because we don't run in large enough guilds to field full x4 raids on current content. Now, I could simply farm plat every day and buy nearly every piece of TSO x4 that I might want with a few exceptions, because the fabled selling market on my server is going gangbusters. Not advocating that, btw, simply stating that for a lot of people I know, even those termed successful casual raiders, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy your gear than it is to struggle for hours with encounters tuned one notch higher than a pickup group can handle. My boyfriend's guild is working on the first few named in every TSO raid zone now, and most of them would rather be shot than do WoE, because for them it simply is not worth it.I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.If you've tuned this x2 to leave off where WoE started, you've A) missed the mark completely for true raiders, as it will yet again be labeled "cake" and B) missed the mark for anyone trying to raid who can't complete x4 content. So....I'll ask again, what's the point? There's perhaps 3-5% of the population that can successfully field a really well geared x2 force but NOT a x4 force. As it requires completing x4 content to get to the really well geared point. Frankly, I find VP raids with my raid alliance less challenging than trying to pull together the perfect and perfectly geared x2 force.There truly is a point to x2 starter raids for smaller guilds and alliances, and SOE simply has never come close to providing that. Instead, you get zones tuned to that fine point where casuals struggle miserably and raiders are bored brainless, if they even go since the gear is a downgrade. So.....what's the point, exactly?</blockquote>Maybe it's for the dying guilds who've run into too many roadblocks in the x4 zones, and who are losing morale and members with the proc nerfs, so they can only scrape together an x2 raid?

Ashlian

06-04-2009, 11:56 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?</blockquote>Precisely. What, exactly, is the point of the x2 raids? At the current difficulty of WOE and the current loot given, all I hear from the raiders progressing in current x4 content is that it is "cake" and the gear "sucks". If they get anything at all, it's for appearance.Whereas those of us for whom the gear is actually an upgrade are oftentimes forced to take pickups, because we don't run in large enough guilds to field full x4 raids on current content. Now, I could simply farm plat every day and buy nearly every piece of TSO x4 that I might want with a few exceptions, because the fabled selling market on my server is going gangbusters. Not advocating that, btw, simply stating that for a lot of people I know, even those termed successful casual raiders, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy your gear than it is to struggle for hours with encounters tuned one notch higher than a pickup group can handle. My boyfriend's guild is working on the first few named in every TSO raid zone now, and most of them would rather be shot than do WoE, because for them it simply is not worth it.I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.If you've tuned this x2 to leave off where WoE started, you've A) missed the mark completely for true raiders, as it will yet again be labeled "cake" and B) missed the mark for anyone trying to raid who can't complete x4 content. So....I'll ask again, what's the point? There's perhaps 3-5% of the population that can successfully field a really well geared x2 force but NOT a x4 force. As it requires completing x4 content to get to the really well geared point. Frankly, I find VP raids with my raid alliance less challenging than trying to pull together the perfect and perfectly geared x2 force.There truly is a point to x2 starter raids for smaller guilds and alliances, and SOE simply has never come close to providing that. Instead, you get zones tuned to that fine point where casuals struggle miserably and raiders are bored brainless, if they even go since the gear is a downgrade. So.....what's the point, exactly?</blockquote>Maybe it's for the dying guilds who've run into too many roadblocks in the x4 zones, and who are losing morale and members with the proc nerfs, so they can only scrape together an x2 raid?</blockquote>Raid alliance ftw. If your guild is dying, or has too few members, form an alliance. We've had several successful alliances on our server and while they have the same problems as guilds with attrition, that's something that occurs with EVERY casual guild as people decide they want to progress more quickly and leave for raid guilds. There's a constant turnover in every casual guild who raids that I've ever been associated with.I'll say it again though.....if you can barely scrape together a x2 raid and have to take a couple of pickups here and there, then the experience in the x2 zones is actually worse than the x4. Because group makeup is even more crucial with fewer people to fill in the gaps than it is in a x4. So unless your leftover raiders form up two ideal groups for a x2, you're in the same boat that my guild is. And x2's are extremely unforgiving of less than a "perfect" makeup unless the players are either very skilled, very well geared, or both. And if you're in that category, than you're not the supposed audience of WoE at least.

TsarRasput

06-04-2009, 12:00 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?</blockquote>Precisely. What, exactly, is the point of the x2 raids? At the current difficulty of WOE and the current loot given, all I hear from the raiders progressing in current x4 content is that it is "cake" and the gear "sucks". If they get anything at all, it's for appearance.Whereas those of us for whom the gear is actually an upgrade are oftentimes forced to take pickups, because we don't run in large enough guilds to field full x4 raids on current content. Now, I could simply farm plat every day and buy nearly every piece of TSO x4 that I might want with a few exceptions, because the fabled selling market on my server is going gangbusters. Not advocating that, btw, simply stating that for a lot of people I know, even those termed successful casual raiders, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy your gear than it is to struggle for hours with encounters tuned one notch higher than a pickup group can handle. My boyfriend's guild is working on the first few named in every TSO raid zone now, and most of them would rather be shot than do WoE, because for them it simply is not worth it.I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.If you've tuned this x2 to leave off where WoE started, you've A) missed the mark completely for true raiders, as it will yet again be labeled "cake" and B) missed the mark for anyone trying to raid who can't complete x4 content. So....I'll ask again, what's the point? There's perhaps 3-5% of the population that can successfully field a really well geared x2 force but NOT a x4 force. As it requires completing x4 content to get to the really well geared point. Frankly, I find VP raids with my raid alliance less challenging than trying to pull together the perfect and perfectly geared x2 force.There truly is a point to x2 starter raids for smaller guilds and alliances, and SOE simply has never come close to providing that. Instead, you get zones tuned to that fine point where casuals struggle miserably and raiders are bored brainless, if they even go since the gear is a downgrade. So.....what's the point, exactly?</blockquote>Honestly the point to me is to field gear gaps, and to give some of us raiders something interesting to do. I mean if you ask me if WoE is easy, you're going to get a jaded response, because I think clearing ToMC is easy. I still enjoy WoE, there are challenges in it, plus it seems to have a lot of benefit to filling gear gaps for raiders who can't seem to get their pieces to drop. A zone that's harder than WoE actually sounds fun to me, even though I expect to be able to clear it first time through. I'm sure plenty of people will run the zone, especially if this does more of the gear gapping that WoE does.

Jeeshman

06-04-2009, 01:23 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Malaqai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>My goal for the difficulty of the zone is for it to pick up more or less where WoE finished. It should be difficult, but not ridiculously so. PuGs may not make too much progress, and I would think a solid base of gear from WoE and the like would be necessary.To note, the bosses may be too difficult atm, but I would like y'alls feedback on things that are too tough. I'll try to work with Reahov and get some runthroughs organized.For Haggle Baron...are the adds he is summoning way too tough? They are intended during the fight, but should be lower level and lower tier than they are normally.Thanks for the testing!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply, but what's the target audience for this?It's gonna be too hard for casuals, but unless it's got crazy good loot, why would we raiders go in there instead of the x4 zones?Most guilds have members that run as many raids per week as their real life allows... Most won't have the extra time for a full evening worth of raiding that isn't x4.(and to be clear, the loot shouldn't be anywhere near as good as the x4 stuff)Or is it intended just as a slight upgrade over WoE, still doable relatively fast for a decent raid guild?</blockquote>Precisely. What, exactly, is the point of the x2 raids? At the current difficulty of WOE and the current loot given, all I hear from the raiders progressing in current x4 content is that it is "cake" and the gear "sucks". If they get anything at all, it's for appearance.Whereas those of us for whom the gear is actually an upgrade are oftentimes forced to take pickups, because we don't run in large enough guilds to field full x4 raids on current content. Now, I could simply farm plat every day and buy nearly every piece of TSO x4 that I might want with a few exceptions, because the fabled selling market on my server is going gangbusters. Not advocating that, btw, simply stating that for a lot of people I know, even those termed successful casual raiders, it's a heck of a lot easier to buy your gear than it is to struggle for hours with encounters tuned one notch higher than a pickup group can handle. My boyfriend's guild is working on the first few named in every TSO raid zone now, and most of them would rather be shot than do WoE, because for them it simply is not worth it.I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.If you've tuned this x2 to leave off where WoE started, you've A) missed the mark completely for true raiders, as it will yet again be labeled "cake" and B) missed the mark for anyone trying to raid who can't complete x4 content. So....I'll ask again, what's the point? There's perhaps 3-5% of the population that can successfully field a really well geared x2 force but NOT a x4 force. As it requires completing x4 content to get to the really well geared point. Frankly, I find VP raids with my raid alliance less challenging than trying to pull together the perfect and perfectly geared x2 force.There truly is a point to x2 starter raids for smaller guilds and alliances, and SOE simply has never come close to providing that. Instead, you get zones tuned to that fine point where casuals struggle miserably and raiders are bored brainless, if they even go since the gear is a downgrade. So.....what's the point, exactly?</blockquote>I can't wait for the new x2 zone. Smaller guilds and alliances have problems with Thet em aua (we've never gotten past it) and therefore have to ping-pong between TotMC and Palace without being able to complete either zone. It's such a refreshing change of pace to actually have zone progression instead of mob progression, even if it's only x2 zones instead of x4. There are quite a few guilds and alliances out who can field 12 extremely good players, but have serious problems fielding 24. Those guilds/alliances will be very interested in a new challenge when Kurn's goes live, IMO.

Gaige

06-04-2009, 01:31 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.</blockquote>Which is happening because the loot coming out of those zones + the void shard gear has substantially upped the curve in terms of casual non-raider ability.People always wanted raid quality gear and now they get it and of course they get irritated that all of the content gets harder.

Trynnus1

06-04-2009, 04:20 PM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I truly miss the days when playing well in good if not great gear could overcome less than ideal group setups. At this point, even the mid to high level heroic dungeons require casuals to field as close to the perfect setup as possible if you wish to succeed without taking so long to finish a zone that you might as well have spent the time raiding.</blockquote>Which is happening because the loot coming out of those zones + the void shard gear has substantially upped the curve in terms of casual non-raider ability.People always wanted raid quality gear and now they get it and of course they get irritated that all of the content gets harder.</blockquote>Normally I dont agree with you Gage, but on this point I have to support you.I have been watching the x2 gear thread for any type of discussion about the gear - nothing so far. I am copied to testcopy but its a wasteland normally. what we need is a couple of organized "test events" on each test server announced in advance (like 3-4 days ahead of time) so the zone (and loot) can be put through its passes.

Gungo

06-04-2009, 04:35 PM

One of the main issues with x2 raids is that exsisting x4 raids have named (some not all) that are so easy that pick up raids can do it rather simply. They drop gear that is better then the x2 gear obviously. This in turn leads to people who would rather kill the easy x4 named then the more defined x2 raids. The quality of gear from the x2 though is very close to the x4 quality.

Obadiah

06-04-2009, 09:32 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>One of the main issues with x2 raids is that exsisting x4 raids have named (some not all) that are so easy that pick up raids can do it rather simply. They drop gear that is better then the x2 gear obviously. This in turn leads to people who would rather kill the easy x4 named then the more defined x2 raids. The quality of gear from the x2 though is very close to the x4 quality.</blockquote>So, 2 named that are easier than anything in the x2, and 1 that's not that far off. That's an issue?Anyone who would rather kill the easy x4 named in Palace than do WoE is insane. I thought that was why they put a painful amount of trivial trash with ridiculous amounts of health .... to encourage people who were struggling to quit x4 raiding and enjoy the x2 content.BTW, I love how this stickied topic offers a scant few posts that are actual feedback and then a philisophical discussion about x2 raiding. Great attention span. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Raetsel

06-09-2009, 09:07 PM

Unable to zone into thise zone.We tried it with just a single grp of copied chars that are heavily TSO raidequipped.After zoneing in we eventually got at least 2 players that got booted out of the zone again with the message "You may not enter an instance created prior to when your previous instance's minimum lockout timer expired."At that time we had no timers at all.Everyone inside of the zone got a fresh 30min minimum timer. Everyone that got booted out of the zone got no timer (not even the 30min minimum timer).EDIT: It would be great if there would be any way to get a faster travel to Fens. There is no druid ring.you can get to kylong by guildhall bell, you can get to JW by porthammer, but you cannot get to Fens by any way of distance travel.

OneNineKilo

06-11-2009, 02:12 AM

I've never seen a x 4 WoE raid due to not having the access, which is due to a pickup raid not being able to ever complete a x2 raid to get said access to x4. So far, a pickup raid can't beat Dayakara let alone kill Aiden and finish off WoE, and your only chance is to either have a guild raid or be the "correct" class to get into a hardcore raiding guild's WoE raid. Most of the problem with WoE is that you *must* have the *correct 12 classes* or you will fail miserably for lacking a key class. I have seen raids fail because they couldn't find a single Wizard/Warlock and didn't have any AE dps, or because they had a Necromancer/conjurer and did't have enough dps period. Or if they had a slack healer, you'd be amazed how hard it is to find 3 Mythical Epiced well geared healers for WoE...Adding more healers doesn't work because then you have a lack of dps. We once tried 5 healers on Diggz, and that was a total disaster. Unfortunately, the Defiler they had invited had no armor to be anywhere near the WoE zone...As for Kurn's Tower, I pray that it will actually be pickup raidable when it comes out, as raiding guilds only do the x2 zone to get access to the x4, and then never return as the loot is not worth it for them. Why would you raid WoE or Kurn's Tower, when you could be raiding and progressing Ykesha's Inner Sanctum, Tomb of the Mad Crusader, Palace of the Ancient One, or learning Zarrakon??The raiding schedule doesn't have enough time to accomodate every zone, guilds only continue to run the x2 because of how many times it is required to flag a full 24 raid force for x4. Having a specific required class setup means most guilds are only flagging 2 or 3 people per a run, with the other members already having the x4 access and going several times, unlike their fellow guildmate who may have only been allowed on the raid that 1 time (due to being an "unwanted" class). Speaking of VP being easier than the WoE raids, guilds have also quit raiding VP as well, would be cool to see more VP pickup raids, but most don't see it as worth the time anymore (.On the subject of content being to hard for its intended audience, there are countless instances of this being true. Please, make loot that is worth it for the audience and attainable, not loot that hardcore raiders get and sell for plat because they don't have any reason to want it!! I see raiding guilds selling items for 500 - 1k plat all the time, which merely only insures that hardcore raiders remain rich over the rest of the entire server...Anyway, Wizards and Druids really need Fens of Nathsar travel, Wizards need Kunzar Jungle, and is there any reason why Wizards can't just use all of the Teleportation Spires available from Kingdom of Sky?? IE. Tenebrous Tangle, Barren Sky, and Bonemire. Remember, back when we all got Nexus Portal in EQ1? Oh, what a happy day for Wizards to not have to wait on a Spire Scion!! Bring back the days of Wizards having better Teleports than a Druid!! You have forgotten what our masterys are vs a Druid Dabbler in All but Masters of Nothing.

Lleren

06-11-2009, 05:16 PM

nt-wrong thread

Yimway

06-11-2009, 05:27 PM

<cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>After zoneing in we eventually got at least 2 players that got booted out of the zone again with the message "You may not enter an instance created prior to when your previous instance's minimum lockout timer expired."</blockquote>We attempted to test it last night and had the same problem. We could never get even a full group zoned in at any one time.With as much trouble as we're having with /testcopy working AND the zone itself preventing us from getting in to test it, I'm having trouble keeping people interested in trying to test this zone.Please advise if this has been corrected.

Dethdlr

06-11-2009, 05:52 PM

<cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>EDIT: It would be great if there would be any way to get a faster travel to Fens. There is no druid ring.you can get to kylong by guildhall bell, you can get to JW by porthammer, but you cannot get to Fens by any way of distance travel.</blockquote>I've asked about this in a few of the developer question threads but it's never been picked as one that got answered. There are docks in Omens Call. Why can't they wire up the Kunark guild hall bell to give you a choice between Kylong Plains and Fens with the Fens one taking you to Omens Call? As for WoE, personally, I'm loving the zone. We don't have enough in our guild to field a x4 raid but most of the time we can pull off a x2. Not with the best group setup most of the time. We've been in there 10 times so far and have taken down Digg the last 4 times. Last time we killed Digg, we did it with 10 people and less than 20k DPS. Yes, less than twenty thousand DPS. Normally when we don't have enough for Digg, we just clear up to him, pull him once or twice just for fun, then come back in before the zone resets when we manage scrape together enough to take him. This time, on our second pull, we were about to reset and call it a day. We were short on power regen so I was running some Mental Breach power poisons for the long fight. When we were about to reset it, we noticed Digg was running low on power and decided, what the heck, lets see what happens. lol. Well, it doesn't appear as though anything changes when you run him out of power. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> He had zero power but kept blasting us with his normal stuff. It looked as though we were slowly overcoming his heals so we kept with it until we made it past the snake phase. From pull to dead, 24 minute fight. lol. End result, dead Digg.We'll be trying the fire mob again tomorrow and think we have a decent plan for him. We are actually progressing through the zone and the three piece sets that some of us are getting do seem to be a decent upgrade from the T2 shard gear most of us are wearing. This zone is working out great for us. Hopefully we'll eventually make it through the zone and start clearing it.For anyone that has tried the new Kurn's Tower X2, or for the Devs, how does it stack up agains WoE? I heard it's meant to be a bit more challenging but I'm not completely sure what that means since it could mean two things.1) The first mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE.2) The last mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE. So if you're 4 or 5 nameds into WoE, you may have a shot at taking out the first couple in Kurn's Tower x2.Anyone know which of these two would be closer to the truth? Looking forward to it either way. Love the x2 zones. Keep em coming. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

timetravelling

06-11-2009, 06:43 PM

<cite>Decimatr@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) The first mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE.2) The last mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE. So if you're 4 or 5 nameds into WoE, you may have a shot at taking out the first couple in Kurn's Tower x2.</blockquote>Those are prolly a bit more specific than I'm willing to lay claims on ;DKurns is much shorter than WoE--only 4 bosses instead of 8--so will not have nearly as dramatic of an internal progression. However, the goal for Kander and I is for Kurn's to be in the general vicinity of the difficulty of the end of WoE. Challenging for sure, but not a gigantic leap in difficulty.

Yimway

06-11-2009, 07:37 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Decimatr@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) The first mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE.2) The last mob in Kurn's Tower x2 is a bit harder than the hardest mob in WoE. So if you're 4 or 5 nameds into WoE, you may have a shot at taking out the first couple in Kurn's Tower x2.</blockquote>Those are prolly a bit more specific than I'm willing to lay claims on ;DKurns is much shorter than WoE--only 4 bosses instead of 8--so will not have nearly as dramatic of an internal progression. However, the goal for Kander and I is for Kurn's to be in the general vicinity of the difficulty of the end of WoE. Challenging for sure, but not a gigantic leap in difficulty.</blockquote>Any chance we'll get a build on test we can zone into soon?

Zoltaroth

06-11-2009, 08:40 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>After zoneing in we eventually got at least 2 players that got booted out of the zone again with the message "You may not enter an instance created prior to when your previous instance's minimum lockout timer expired."</blockquote>We attempted to test it last night and had the same problem. We could never get even a full group zoned in at any one time.With as much trouble as we're having with /testcopy working AND the zone itself preventing us from getting in to test it, I'm having trouble keeping people interested in trying to test this zone.Please advise if this has been corrected.</blockquote>I pushed a fix for this in the last test update (late on 6/10) let me know if it is still happening and I will look into it furthur.

CuCullain

06-12-2009, 09:31 AM

Hopefully there is more X2 content on the horizon, lately it seems like every week another raid guild has closed it's doors on my server. More and more guilds just can't find 24 people interested enough in TSO raid content to put the time and effort into learning the road block mobs, one shot AoEs, fail conditions, perfect setups, all new mitigation gear all contributing.At least in RoK you could clear zones completely while working on the main road blocks such as Venril and by the time you got to the biggest road blocks, Nex and Drushk, you still had other zones to do on off nights. The other thing is there felt like a purpose to the grind on these mobs. Venril opened up an easy Lev kill and then VP; Nex and Drushk gave out the 1st mythicals and opened up the cake mobs after for even more.Now you grind Xebnok for what? Access to an even harder final boss that gives what? Same thing in the other raid zones, couple moderate mobs followed by a gigantic pain in the ars mob that gateways you to bigger pains all to get to... maybe a chance at a decent drop here and there that will be worth far less in 9 months?Challenges should be equal to reward and unfortunately a LOT less people think it is worth it in TSO. If you expect players to want to do this xpac's raids you need to either lower the difficulty or increase the size of the reward. If not you will continue to see more and more established raid guilds fall apart or at the very least call it quits until the next xpac.

Thunndar316

06-12-2009, 07:26 PM

The people who need it, can't do it.The people who can do it, don't need it.Keep it up SOE. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />

Yimway

06-15-2009, 11:54 AM

Just to be clear...No one tested this content and its due out tomorrow?I tried, got 2 groups of raid geared people on test twice while the zone was broken and we couldn't zone in. By the time it was actually working, I couldn't get 12 people on test due to issues with /testcopy not working plus people just giving up from previous failed attempts to zone in.

Tehom

06-16-2009, 06:06 PM

Screwed around in there a little earlier today before people had to go to work and whatnot. First two nameds were fun! Liked the Haggle Baron fight, though it didn't seem like the whole orbs thing was working entirely properly - seemed like a few times people did everything right and still got charmed. Happened rarely enough where it wasn't a big deal though, and really enjoyed the fight overall.Second named was a lot of fun. I think it might actually be one of my favorite fights in the expansion overall - I loved the hopping around the vents and dealing with the knockback. I'm not sure if the porter on the other side is supposed to go inactive when he's low or not, since wasn't much indication either way.Third named/pair of nameds is where we had to stop - we only had one fighter in raid, were short on time, and figured it might be a split-tank fight.Loot seemed pretty weak, which is my only real complaint so far. First named got a 3 melee crit earring with a right-click for 20 dps mod, which didn't seem particularly better than legendary drops you could get in heroic dungeons. Similarly, second named was a 4 spell crit earring with subjugation cast/reuse mods. Pretty awful, really. I know we shouldn't be expecting avatar loot, but I shouldn't be wondering if it's better than the thuuga quest rewards either. I think they could use a little sprucing up - some spell/ca damage, generic +reuse, maybe a damaging proc, whatever. They just need a bit more oomph.

Yimway

06-16-2009, 10:19 PM

<cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Loot seemed pretty weak, which is my only real complaint so far. First named got a 3 melee crit earring with a right-click for 20 dps mod, which didn't seem particularly better than legendary drops you could get in heroic dungeons. Similarly, second named was a 4 spell crit earring with subjugation cast/reuse mods. Pretty awful, really. I know we shouldn't be expecting avatar loot, but I shouldn't be wondering if it's better than the thuuga quest rewards either. I think they could use a little sprucing up - some spell/ca damage, generic +reuse, maybe a damaging proc, whatever. They just need a bit more oomph.</blockquote>100% agree.I think the bug is a red and blue orb spawning at the exact same locaiton. It's really hard to see as it looks red, but if you look at the floor under it, it is also blue. Problem was 'red' people who ran to that orb got the charm even though they followed the script.

Wytie

06-17-2009, 11:19 AM

#1 orb thingies on the ground are bugged if it pops on a uneven/level surfaces.#2 Unable to tell who actually failed the encounter due to the charm being AOE on the person who fails#3 Random Elemental dot that could almost 1 shot people isnt fun, people who werent even close to the fire would get it sometimes#4 Repops for trash arent funMy overall feel for this zone wasnt fun alot of the things about this zone were an annoyance rather than a challenge.What is with the color detrimentals and run to portal/pool cure stuff? you guys call that stuff challenge or even fun? I call it a speed bump pain in the rear. This game is so close to a fail when the only way to make things hard is to make people have to click clickies and run to portals and pool crap all the time to cure some vision or fail the encounter.When will you guys get it, that this crap isnt fun, nor does it add challenge to an encounter it makes it ANNOYINGHeres a pro tip, wanta know 2 of the most ANNOYING encounters in the game imo? Switchmaster and Zarakon. Why?Because most of these 2 fights consist of ANNOYING run to portal cure this vision crap or fail the encounter, so dont make more of it, because its already OLD.Theres your feedback make stuff fun to play not annoying. I understand you cant make stuff tank and spank and you want to get people involved into the fight and not just dps/heal and tank. Well give people a job to do make us part of the encounters somehow make it fit with lore of the game, this vision and cure portal color cures stuff sucks and is simply not fun to deal with, end of story.

Gungo

06-21-2009, 01:41 PM

Here is my feedback for doing the zone up to the third named which is bugged. I am going to recommend nerfing this zone in diffculty alot even as a hardcore raider myself becuase the market is not there for a hard x2 zone. x2 zones should be made for casualish pickup raids so that they can get near x4 quality raid gear like the tier3 shard gear. The difficulty should not neccesarily be the encounters but the time spent farming shards for this group of players. I realized lately there is ALOT of [Removed for Content] poor players out there who can't even do heroic zones and find deep forge challenging. The heroic/z2 game needs to be opened up to this base. If kurns tower is kept extremely hard, while i willl clear the zone it will go largely unused. So it needs to be nerfed imho to no more diffficult if not slightly less then woe.first floor/ first encounter.-remove the repopping adds- fix the bubble overlap that bugs out- remove the aoe charm- make the charm for failure to get into the red/blue orb single target make it have a duration of 60 seconds or until cured.second named-knockback is fine-make it so there can only ever be 2 blue bubble platforms, while we did 3 easily there is alot of people who are incompetent.- if you can make it so the tank never ets the arcane blue bubble dot that would be superthird floor/third named- first the trash needs to get fixed, I recommend making the pet on the x2 trash targetable and killable so we dont need pdaoe to stop the raid wipe aoe.- Not sure if the heals on ports on the 3rd named is there but ya that can be removed, make it a raid version of the primogen in manor.4th floor named-I cant tell you never tried it.

CuCullain

06-21-2009, 02:39 PM

Though I don't agree 100% with what the last poster said his base point is extremely valid.Why are X2s being made at this time when in the original game they stopped making them?A: There are fewer and fewer 24 man raid forces left in the game and there is a need for content fro smaller raid forces.HOWEVER in the majority of cases a guild that is not fielding viable 24 man raid forces is not going to be a cream of the crop raid guild and as such the x2 content should not be geared towards challenging that type of raid force. YES there are exceptions, but you can not develope a product for the exceptions and hope to succede.The majority of your games raiders have not even taken down half of the X4 content in this expansion. The developers should be looking at this content and gearing some of it back. By doing that you will open up more doors for the majority of this games players. Go ahead and keep the "end" mobs in the harder zones cream of the crop tough, but stop letting the rest of it rot for everyone else.The EQ2 team needs to wake up fast, people are past fed up with playing this game and not progressing past this expansions roadblocks. You are not getting enough subs to replace the discontent and not even your next xpac will bring back those who are just sick of it all. Make your game more accessable or it is going to fail very soon.So to stay on topic, based on what i said above just now, lower the difficulty of this zone. The first mob is not to bad as long as you have a TS spec'd Brig and a fighter tank. The 2nd mob is in need of heavy tweaks as he is too unforgivinh, too frustrating, too aggravating.

Gungo

06-21-2009, 03:36 PM

See i didnt find the second named hard we had people in vent calling where to move left/right/back/front, but we had 1 pick up person in the raid who died EVERY single time. This goes back to my incompetent peopel remark. 3 makes it very hard for casuals 2 makes it a bit easier. Would be even easier if the 2 were side by side and never across from each other.It might be prudent to also reduce the % based dot to 30% instead of 40%+. It may not seem liek much but it allows casters/healer another tick for more time to cure a person who is to dumb to move.But basically this zone needs to be nerfed alot or i see 1-2 guilds on server clearing it and no one else. Which is not what x2 raids should be.

Ashlian

06-21-2009, 06:13 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The people who need it, can't do it.The people who can do it, don't need it.Keep it up SOE. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>also quote:Why are X2s being made at this time when in the original game they stopped making them?A: There are fewer and fewer 24 man raid forces left in the game and there is a need for content fro smaller raid forces.HOWEVER in the majority of cases a guild that is not fielding viable 24 man raid forces is not going to be a cream of the crop raid guild and as such the x2 content should not be geared towards challenging that type of raid force. YES there are exceptions, but you can not develope a product for the exceptions and hope to succede.===========I'm a bit tired of hearing high end raiders tell me that I should stop whining because there were so many easy encounters and gear added that these raids are required to be challenging to the average high end raider because the rest of us obviously got all that easy gear. This is not the case. I do have some fairly decent gear, but the usual group I go with in these instances does not ON AVERAGE. We have people who could be in high end guilds and we have people just entering raiding, who have worked their butts off in TSO instances that suck balls for people who were not already well geared out of RoK content, doing the same few instances that less well geared players can do until they got their tier 1 and tier 2 void shard armor. There is, as of now, no entry level raiding. WOE is not entry level. Kurn's is not entry level. Merely the fact that most of us have to pick and choose our classes and players for these raids like we're selecting for an Olympic team makes the entire experience a nightmare organizationally.FTW Comics said it best. My guild has standing jokes regarding ducks these days.<img src="http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g6/raelysse/ftw-51.jpg" width="800" height="700" />

Loxus

06-22-2009, 10:11 AM

<cite>Zoltaroth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Raetsel@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>After zoneing in we eventually got at least 2 players that got booted out of the zone again with the message "You may not enter an instance created prior to when your previous instance's minimum lockout timer expired."</blockquote>We attempted to test it last night and had the same problem. We could never get even a full group zoned in at any one time.With as much trouble as we're having with /testcopy working AND the zone itself preventing us from getting in to test it, I'm having trouble keeping people interested in trying to test this zone.Please advise if this has been corrected.</blockquote>I pushed a fix for this in the last test update (late on 6/10) let me know if it is still happening and I will look into it furthur.</blockquote>We ran into this problem on our live server with WOE on Friday 6/19/09

Yimway

06-22-2009, 12:14 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is, as of now, no entry level raiding. WOE is not entry level. Kurn's is not entry level. Merely the fact that most of us have to pick and choose our classes and players for these raids like we're selecting for an Olympic team makes the entire experience a nightmare organizationally.</blockquote>WoE is entry level, its great for proving grounds. Basically every generic flavor of raid encounters exist in this zone. Each is a slightly different challenge and is appropriately set for 12 people with t2 sets and fabled epic. If your failing at this zone, you need to look at both your raid strategy as well as your individual player skills. Raid strategies for these encounters are posted in several places, and several people like me will provide any encounter data you want about them. Individual player guides exist in several places, but flames is probably the best starting place.You get your people properly geared for the zone requirements and outputing the gear appropriate dps/hate/heals, and you are capable of doing every encounter in the zone. I know this as fact, as we've done it with alts that aren't even wearing t2 sets.

Kordran

06-22-2009, 01:18 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is, as of now, no entry level raiding. WOE is not entry level.</blockquote>This would be completely wrong. WoE is designed for exactly that; all that is needed to start is your T2 set gear and fabled epic. That doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to be able to clear the zone the first time through, but if the players are even marginally competent, they should be able to kill at least 3-4 of the named in there. You get your gear upgrades, and go back again. As more of your x2 raid force gets their T3 set gear (with particular focus on the tank(s) and healers) you'll get to Aiden and finish it.Entry level does not mean putting a zone on farm status the first day. If you're not already raid geared, yes, guess what? You are going to have to work at getting your people geared out. Just like raiders do with the x4 content.1. There is a definite progression with WoE, with some strats becoming more complex as you get further in. It starts with a straight up tank-and-spank fight and becomes more involved.2. The T3 gear and fabled jewelry that you get, particularly with the upgrades that can be purchased from the new NPC on the docks are sufficient to allow you to continue progression.3. The encounters have been fixed/nerfed significantly since it was originally released, making it even easier for more casual raiders/groupers to be able to complete more for the content.4. The molds that are dropped are (semi-)smart loot, so presumably if your new raiders are actually upgrading their gear, and you're running it with substantially the same group of folks, then you're going to get what you need. And with the modification to the set bonuses they made, the T2 and T3 gear integrates nicely as you upgrade.5. The lockout timer was changed to 3 days, making it easy for new raiding forces to go in there and gear up over a relatively short period of time.In summary, everything about WoE screams that is is indeed for the entry-level raider.Now, as far as the Kurns x2 zone, I do have to say that I think it's a bit out of step in terms of progression with WoE. The first named isn't bad, but then difficulty goes up leaps and bounds with the second name. Not so much the mob itself per se (he just seems to have a fair number of hitpoints) but all of the jumping around from grate to grate and the knockback is probably a bit much for your "average" raiders out there; particularly when you get him down to the point where 3 of the 4 grates become active. The third named are a split tank fight, but the trash are just completely broken. And while this isn't a loot thread, I will throw in that, based on the level of difficulty, the loot being dropped in Kurns thus far is completely unimpressive.

Yimway

06-22-2009, 01:30 PM

Kruns for sure picks up where woe ended. If you are having trouble with any of the WoE encounters, I do not recomend Kurns x2.The first named might be doable, without WoE or raid gear, but its going to be super tough to keep your tanks up with the shield debuff.

Kordran

06-22-2009, 02:51 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kruns for sure picks up where woe ended. If you are having trouble with any of the WoE encounters, I do not recomend Kurns x2.The first named might be doable, without WoE or raid gear, but its going to be super tough to keep your tanks up with the shield debuff.</blockquote>The second named in Kurns is a gateway mob, is both a gear check for the tank and skill check for the players in general (the ability to coordinate and move on demand, while also watching out for the warning they're about to be punted). One of the things about WoE was that if you found a particular mob to be too tough at the time (e.g.: Digg) then there were others you could work on. With Kurns, you're basically stopped dead in your tracks until you can kill Roland.So yes, it picks up where WoE left off, but the climb quickly becomes steeper than I expected it would for an x2 zone. Heck, I have some friends in mid-tier raiding guilds (basically progressed in the TSO x4 zones as far as Switchmaster/Kultak) who haven't been able to get him below 60% yet. I guess they're just not that good at doing the samba while dpsing the named.And you're absolutely right in pointing out, if they're having any kind of trouble with clearing WoE, they really shouldn't bother with Kurns. If their tank is well-geared, they may be able to kill Klok, but that's about it; otherwise, they're just going to get owned.

timetravelling

06-22-2009, 04:49 PM

I added a detrimental that Sir Rouland casts on players to help notify them that a boot is coming--sometimes the onscreen messages can get delayed as only one at a time can ever be visible.The energy bursts also now tick for 30% instead of 40% of a player's health, giving healers a possible chance to dispel the raid members who move too slowlyAlso, I'm still looking into the issue when the red and blue bubbles on the first floor don't work if they overlap, but it's not an easy to nail down fix unfortunately.

Yimway

06-22-2009, 05:13 PM

Gungo

06-22-2009, 05:48 PM

CuCullain

06-22-2009, 06:25 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>I added a detrimental that Sir Rouland casts on players to help notify them that a boot is coming--sometimes the onscreen messages can get delayed as only one at a time can ever be visible.The energy bursts also now tick for 30% instead of 40% of a player's health, giving healers a possible chance to dispel the raid members who move too slowlyAlso, I'm still looking into the issue when the red and blue bubbles on the first floor don't work if they overlap, but it's not an easy to nail down fix unfortunately.</blockquote>2nd fight:Thank you for the changes.The detrimental will help a great deal, and the 10% reduction will help some too. One further change I would still look for is makign the graphics of the steam/bubbles more visible. If we could see it in a different color that would help the greatest, as simply increasing the density might not aid those at lower GFX settings.1st fight:As far as the bubbles go I can tell you what I saw personally. We got good enough at this fight where not a single person got charmed with one exception. What happened was the two bubbles spawned in the center of the room +/- 10m. About half of each bubble overlapped. Those three people who went into the overlapping section got charmed while the rest did not. We didn't see any add bursts or anything so, if I am correct that going to the wrong color causes yellow adds to pop, the issue is related to it not recognizing you in a color at all in those areas, not that it is thinking you are in the wrong one.One other thing I would hope was looked into on this fight is the shield curse. We had two groups do this fight and one of them had a much greater amount of that curse happening. If I am correct I think this might be because the other grp had a Brigand Traumatic Swiping the mob and the other did not. If I am correct as to the issue I'd suggest drawing back the timer on the shield curse a little so that if you are unfortunate to not have a Brigand with TS you are not getting destroyed by it's effect.

CuCullain

06-22-2009, 06:30 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>I added a detrimental that Sir Rouland casts on players to help notify them that a boot is coming--sometimes the onscreen messages can get delayed as only one at a time can ever be visible.The energy bursts also now tick for 30% instead of 40% of a player's health, giving healers a possible chance to dispel the raid members who move too slowlyAlso, I'm still looking into the issue when the red and blue bubbles on the first floor don't work if they overlap, but it's not an easy to nail down fix unfortunately.</blockquote>Thats good for a start. And i know its intended to be a bit harder then WoE, but the majority of people will never touch this zone. It needs to be no harder (ideally a bit less) then WoE if you want more then 1-2 guilds per server clearing this.The first named--Should have the repoppign trash stop repopping =PThis seems ok to me for most guilds. As long as you stay to the middle the trash doesn't add in the fight.-Should turn the failure charm into a single target instead of aoe.Are you sure it is an AoE? When we where learnign this it didn't seem like the couple people who messed up caused any extra charms.-Should set the charm to 60 seconds instead of until cured.Agree with this. If a group messes up you have very little chance of curing thes epeople's curses as you are usign a long recast spell and have only 3 (typical) healers on the raid. Even 30s duration might be good.Second named- should only put at most 2 blue sides onNot sure about going this far, perhaps spacing the grate changes a little more. Say 1 till 60 2 till 20 and 3 till 0. Might also add a little time in between the grates themselves.. 10-15s more?Third named- allow the trash mobs raid wiping aoe pet to be targetable, could increase the pets hitpoints if you want- There use to be a heal on the third nameds which can be removed.</blockquote>

Kordran

06-22-2009, 07:28 PM

Rumor has it that the (untargettable) trash that tags along with the lobsters on the 3rd level is no longer AEing the raid for 30K+. Can anyone confirm this?

Leiahna

06-25-2009, 09:29 PM

Tried Kurns for the first time last night. We are a mythical geared guid, progressing through TSO. I would say 3/4 of the raid has at least a couple pieces of T4(wrists, hands,boots) with some WoE gear and the rest T3 or VP.The 1st namedThe charm does seem to be ae as our one enchanter never made to his bubble twice and both times 4-5 people got charmed and started beating on the rest of the raid.The adds/trash that pop during the event were orange in groups and had 1 ^^^ with several ^^. We did try to avoid them and we did tank the named in the middle but avoiding them is not possible when the domes pop right on top of the adds. Each time we got him to the 2nd or 3rd ae one of the domes would pop right on the adds which means adds aggro, usually the healers with wards up bam raid dead.From reading above, this is the 3rd person I've seen post stay in the middle and the adds wont aggro. Where exactly where your domes spawning at? Cause ours were spawning all over the place including right smack dab in the middle of one of the torchs near the center. So it was either die to the flame or get charmed and kill the raid.Now dont get me wrong I enjoy hard events and we pulled this mob for a couple hours and we will go back. But with the domes spawning on the adds and in the torches and the ae charm... we just werent able to take this mob down. So the answer to "stay in the middle and you wont aggro the trash" just doesnt apply. The way this event is set up as of last night is you need to kill the add groups as they spawn or you will eventually die to aggro because of where the domes pop.

Gungo

06-28-2009, 12:18 AM

<cite>Faush@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote> This seems ok to me for most guilds. As long as you stay to the middle the trash doesn't add in the fight.Depends where your bubble spawns. It was easily killed and most times even when the bubble spawned near adds you could get inside the edge of a bubble and avoid them. one time it spawned on the adds and that group just had to kill the adds.The point is the adds are jsut an annoyance they are not part of the encounter and the only difficulty it adds is bad luck. While my guild has had no issues one grouping these x2 adds most guilds wont. My intention is for this zone to be easy enough that most people would like to do it. Instead of being a ~2-3 guilds per server clearing it for items they wouldnt use because they are worse then what they already wear. Are you sure it is an AoE? When we where learnign this it didn't seem like the couple people who messed up caused any extra charms.actually no but alot of people said it. Personally the only time we had an entire group get charmed was when the bubbles overlapped and we were not sure if everyone in the blue bubble got screwed by the overlap or it was an aoe. Agree with this. If a group messes up you have very little chance of curing thes epeople's curses as you are usign a long recast spell and have only 3 (typical) healers on the raid. Even 30s duration might be good.Seems to me a permanant charm is a bit overkill. I say 60 seconds because well the the recast of cure curse anyway. Not sure about going this far, perhaps spacing the grate changes a little more. Say 1 till 60 2 till 20 and 3 till 0. Might also add a little time in between the grates themselves.. 10-15s more?Really like i said we killed it. But my intention is for more guilds to be able to kill the second named as well. 2 is hard enough for most peopel to comprehend 3 is bound to make it excessively hard for guilds because dotn forget their tank will likely get hit very every time w the blue bubble dot.</blockquote>While I dont intend this zone to be a pushover i certainly wish it was excessible to alot more of eq2 then it currently is designed. X2 needs to be available to more people in difficulty. Making a x2 for the elite fully teir 3 shard guild/raid guilds is a bit over the top. It needs to be slightly easier or at least on par of WOE. To tell the truth i have seen no loot that warrents this zone be even more difficult then WOE.

Grumpy_Warrior_01

06-29-2009, 10:32 AM

Why do some people think x2 translates into "easy?"

Kordran

06-29-2009, 11:16 AM

<cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Why do some people think x2 translates into "easy?"</blockquote>My understanding was that the original idea behind x2s was they're raids for guilds that can't always manage (for whatever reason) to field a complete raid force, and to provide a bridge to x4 raiding. I think they did a good job with WoE in that regard. Kurns is a pretty steep climb from that point, particularly past the first named. I have some friends who are in established raiding guilds, about midway through TSO progression, who haven't even been able to kill Rouland yet.I guess "easy" is too subjective to really pin down, but for the more casual raiders out there, it sounds like Kurns is a frustration for them. When it was announced, I suspect they were thinking that it would be an incremental step up from WoE, and they wouldn't end up completely blocked after the first named.

Freliant

06-29-2009, 11:32 AM

<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Why do some people think x2 translates into "easy?"</blockquote>My understanding was that the original idea behind x2s was they're raids for guilds that can't always manage (for whatever reason) to field a complete raid force, and to provide a bridge to x4 raiding. I think they did a good job with WoE in that regard. Kurns is a pretty steep climb from that point, particularly past the first named. I have some friends who are in established raiding guilds, about midway through TSO progression, who haven't even been able to kill Rouland yet.I guess "easy" is too subjective to really pin down, but for the more casual raiders out there, it sounds like Kurns is a frustration for them. When it was announced, I suspect they were thinking that it would be an incremental step up from WoE, and they wouldn't end up completely blocked after the first named.</blockquote>WoE is not easy, and Kurn x2 is just plain hard. Avatar geared players are unable to clear it yet. Will the rewards that the x2 give be on par with the gear that is used to clear it? Nope.The way x2 have been implemented, they are just a waste of Dev resources. These zones will get more use when the level cap is 90 and people want to farm some easy T8/9 mute fodder and tons of plat. So this will end up being a double fail zone.Heck, I can see PR already becoming this... in T9 it is going to be one grouped (like Labs currently is) and will be a huge plat mine that will just throw the already fragile EQ2 economy into a death-spin.

Kordran

06-29-2009, 12:04 PM

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heck, I can see PR already becoming this... in T9 it is going to be one grouped (like Labs currently is) and will be a huge plat mine that will just throw the already fragile EQ2 economy into a death-spin.</blockquote>That's already happening; a few more people just makes it go faster (PR can be cleared in about 10-15 minutes). And of course, there's the other "plat mine" which is VP; a lot of top-end guilds are farming with 12, coupled with charging casuals for mythical updates.The EQ2 economy is already whacked, and there's really no saving it at this point. Raiders have thousands of plat, and nothing to spend it on other than consumables, adornments and collection items.

Tehom

06-29-2009, 01:44 PM

Yeah, a lot of our raiders one-group PR for plat. It's pretty common, though I don't see VP being the same way - the trash would make it take so long it hardly seems worth it to just do it for money. As far as avatar geared people clearing the new x2 goes, we're able to do it without too much difficulty, though the 3rd named is probably a bit too hard still I think - the pair is a lot harder than the last guy, it seems like.

Yimway

06-29-2009, 01:47 PM

<cite>Chath@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, a lot of our raiders one-group PR for plat. It's pretty common, though I don't see VP being the same way - the trash would make it take so long it hardly seems worth it to just do it for money.</blockquote>PR is a plat farm for a single group. The mutables + plat + masters is undeniable.VP is a farm for 12 people willing to coordinate and sell myth updates as they go. However, Venril Sathir is the best farm zone to do, as you can typically get 100-150p per updater for this raid and it only takes 6-12 people to kill him. 1000-1500p easily with 15-30 mins effort.

TuinalOfTheNexus

06-30-2009, 09:18 AM

The problem this expansion has been entirely with the itemisation (again).The encounter design, imo, has been spot on, from heroic nameds through to raid mobs, pretty much every one is unique and challenging in its own way.The itemisation has really let it down though, and Kurns Tower just shows this. The main flaws really are:- Critical mitigation, as a way to slow progress, is incredibly contrived, and imbalances tanks badly (e.g a 100 crit mit SK is better at survivability than a 50 crit mit Guardian, making the Guardian completely useless, since their only normal advantage is survivability)- The broken gear progression, caused by implementing the x2 zones after launch. If you required the x2 gear in order to purchase the x4 armor, there would be some progression there (though undoubtedly a lot of debate about making raiders group and x2 raid). I think the ideal solution would have been more non-set armor with crit mit from the x4 nameds, meaning you could purely x4 raid for a decent set of gear, but for the absolute best set gear you'd need to beat the full expansion. It's too late now to change this obviously.Difficult zones like Kurns are great, but without good itemisation they're pointless. If I was the encounter designer for TSO I'd be feeling really let down by the itemisation that's resulting in them designing content which is deemed pointless by a big chunk of the playerbase.

pedigr

07-04-2009, 03:47 PM

This "you may not enter an instance" zone kicking is wearing pretty f****** thin now

Aule

07-06-2009, 05:55 PM

The "fun" thing with x2 raiding is that you have to be tighter on what classes you allow to come. With being so limited on slots you're ideally looking at: 2 fighters 3 priests 2 enchanters 2 bards 1 brigand 1 sorcerer/predator 1 swashbuckler Sure you can shuffle a little bit here and there, but not a whole lot. Depending on your group you may need to get a 4th priest in for Aiden too.

McBenzos

07-10-2009, 02:22 AM

<blockquote>I can't wait for the new x2 zone. Smaller guilds and alliances have problems with Thet em aua (we've never gotten past it) and therefore have to ping-pong between TotMC and Palace without being able to complete either zone. It's such a refreshing change of pace to actually have zone progression instead of mob progression, even if it's only x2 zones instead of x4. There are quite a few guilds and alliances out who can field 12 extremely good players, but have serious problems fielding 24. Those guilds/alliances will be very interested in a new challenge when Kurn's goes live, IMO.</blockquote>Dude.. you kill the adds before they get to the named.. There's two up top and one down below, that spawn in the exact spot... every time...If you guys can't kill stuff in TSO, it's because you're blaming the mob/zone/bugs/etc, and not looking at what the raid is doing or not doing. Thet, holy lord.. I figured that mob out the first day I came back to the freakin game from RoK, and the guild I was in was leading progression on the server. FFS.In response to your post, the only way those guilds would have been happy when Kurn's came out, is if tons more x2 content followed it. That's not how raid sizes are done in this game; however, in Vanguard they chose to do it with three groups (18 people), with some encounters using all four (the fourth group is usually just a part of the raid however they cannot cast anything on the mob or on their friends to help the encounter). So those guilds are still sol until they get up to 24.Alliances aren't always the best answer either, especially when they don't run DKP, and Soandso #486 who has shown up to 5 out of the 73 alliance raids, and was there at the very first one when the alliance started, ends up getting every piece of rare loot that has dropped once; and only once, when 486 was on the raid to roll that beautiful 100 [If you or someone you know is using 1000, slap them]. But if they're done for the right reasons, to have fun, and people start working together and stay cordial; DKP doesn't have to be used and a loot system can be arranged so Jagoff #486 doesn't exist. Just usually doesn't work that way.

ScubaEtte

08-04-2009, 10:15 AM

any ideas on when the loot changes taking effect? my guild cleared to the last guy 2 days ago and the item from the 3rd name encounter sucked. cant remember the name of it "shroud of something" only thing worth while on it was the +195 spell damage but had the -10 to disruption,subjectation, and something else. not really a improvement to the raid gear the mages had. but to lose that much just for the spell damage not worth it i think. we have not cleared the last name, yet. we only tried it 2 or 3 times now when we do the x2 zone. our biggest problem is we get too many adds or our conj try's to posess the guy but his pet does instead. other than that its not that hard of zone once you know how to clear the encounters.

feldon30

08-04-2009, 12:28 PM

<cite>Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Smaller guilds and alliances have problems with Thet em aua (we've never gotten past it)</blockquote>I know this is an old post, but I just saw it.Thet is pretty easy IMO. There's no raid-wiping curse.Every player cures when the AoE goes off.Tank it where the dirt meets the pavement.Every player should have their Detrimental window in a place and size that's easy to see. The 4 players who get the dragon head detrimental curse need to run downstairs, kill that add, then run back upstairs, jump in the water with their back to the cliff and look upwards and grab the 2 adds that stumble down. It's really very easy. It's not even about killing them. It's about keeping the 3 adds away from Thet.Only issues would be people not curing themselves (or curing the wrong thing at the wrong time and then their pot is not available) or not having their back to the cliff if they are on Add duty.I actually consider this a fun fight.