Rebalancing Monks: Combat Arts

[circusgirl]

<p>This thread is for requested fixes to our core abilities and combat arts.  <span style="font-family: verdana; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">Visit these threads to post your ideas for solutions to problems with monk  itemization, <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=450452�" target="_blank">AA abilities</a><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=450452" target="_blank"><span style="color: #000000;">,</span></a></span> or <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=450455" target="_blank">content-based solutions</a>.  I'll update this thread with additional suggestions as they seem applicable.</p><ul><li>Tsunami: Decrease casting time to .5 seconds or instant to bring it in line with other emergency avoidance buff</li><li>Everburning: Monks overcap on haste extremely easily.  With a 40% haste item such as our set gloves, a mastered monk can hit 165 haste (119%) self-buffed.  As the hard cap is 125%, there is essentially no benefit from the buffs of a troub or illy in the group.  To fix this, change everburning, which currently increases our haste by 47%, to an 18% chance to flurry (for a high-end monk 18% is the actual haste increase from everburning in offensive stance, so that's the amount I'm suggesting though obviously this number could be adjusted as the devs see fit)</li><li>Tranquil Vision: Our avoidance buff is one of our greatest utilities in a raid.  However, as our uncontested avoidance is tied to our defensive stance, this buff does little to help the MT when we're dpsing in raids.  Making all avoidance count as uncontested if it is being passed through Tranquil vision would make this buff extremely useful even if we are dpsing in offensive stance on a raid.</li><li>Mindful needs to be de-nerfed to pre-TSO values.</li><li>Both brawlers need a group buff as well as our raidwides...and no, group feign does not count.</li></ul>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Can I also suggest not giving us the rather laughable Iron Body self buff until we're level 80 and can put 5 AA's into the top of our TSO's so we can actually use it? It doesn't make sense for us to have this unless we have the 175 total AA's minimum we need to for it not to be a toy ability to make Monks feel better about having a lower mitigation.</p><p>External Calm should also be made more applicable or given only at the highest tier, as it's currently too specialized to see much use except in raids or specific group encounters. Maybe it's effect could be added to Tsunami?</p><p>The Mend line could use some post level 50 upgrades, as well as the Instill Doubt line.</p><p>Another idea for Everburning is that % of AE auto-attack could be added instead of the unneeded haste.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>I like the flurry idea.  AE autoattack should be AA based, not a default combat art.  It does nothing to improve single target DPS.</p><p>Another possiblity for everburning (or the haste component of our stances) would be base CA damage.  In general, our CAs are weak and we are too autoattack dependant as it is.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>Damage Shields</p><p>Monks have a ton of haste and fast, DW weapons.  We hit mobs WAY more often than any other tank.  We therefore take much more damage from damage shields (and eat up reactives and wards much faster against them).  We need some means of equalizing this.  Perhaps a CA that allows us to avoid or mitigate some part of the damage?  A CA that allows us to neutralize a DS?  Something else?</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>I'm adding your bit about damage shields to the content-based solutions thread, Rhythalian, since thats an instance of where the game content is causing problems when interacting with monks.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>Hehe.  That's fine.  I had started it over there, then figured that the most likely SOLUTION to the problem was CA based, so I put it over here.</p>

[Megavolt]

<p>I would actually love to keep everburning as it is, just an increase in hard capped haste on monks. What the extra haste did for us pre-TSO for keeping agro was beautiful, as most people have found multiple small hits bring more hate than single big hits. With TSO the extra haste that are being brought through TSO gear and aa's are bringing them to the cap with us, making our extra hitting speed less usefull as it was for both dps and agro management. With the extra haste increase a thurough revamp from the current 2.5 delay that we have on most 70+ weapons should be revamped to an even 3 delay. This might mess with timing ca's a bit rough at the get go, but those who have been stuck at the haste cap since ROK probably would only realize around a .2 difference in autoattack hits.</p><p>(Also I believe AA's and Combat arts should be in same topic since the react with each other and both have to be argued together for the whole view)</p><p>External Calm AA should be changed to include aoe physical effects also since with TSO <span style="text-decoration: underline;">ALOT</span> of mobs are using aoe trauma instead of the very few from ROK. This prevents us from standing next to raid mobs like we should be doing. That was the use of external calm that the previous poster was missing. External calm kept us next to the mob so we can be prepared to grab it if the MT went down.</p><p>Cobra line should be changed to an offensive instead of a defensive debuff. This would increase our survivability in group settings and increase our utility in raid settings as an assistant to keep the MT up. Our increase in this utility should be a viable alternative to carrying an extra healer for the raid, as much as for ourselves rolling with 2-3 healers in a group setting (you know you tanking monks do it because you replace the xtra dps slot in exhange for the healer to help you stay up). Martial order line enhancements to both self and target should be increased for this purpose as well ( our defl increase to help keep us up the targets percentage to go through to help keep MT up).</p><p>Dragon stance line should have its hate reduced and changed to an encounter proc. Taunts should be increased in hate. Mongoose should also be changed to encounter dethreat and have its proc rate increase. There should be no reason to have hate increase with only autoattacks going and mongoose like it is now.</p><p>The rest of our ca's should be brought inline damagewise with five rings. An overall increase to damage by about 15% would do this. With the increase of effects added to mobs of "causes <em>this </em>if damaged" five rings is no longer as desirable as it was, but bringing in the single hits in line with the same damage would bring other options on these mobs. This effect is also one reason I would like to see the general delay brought up to 3 from 2.5 so we dont spend 5/6 of  a fight witha  detrimental that other  melee classes have 1/2 the time. The recovery time on forward strike should be removed also, well, just because its goofy to have that much recovery on such a small hit.</p><p>Stone stance and face of the mountain lines should have the reuse sped up a bit. Why? Because it would just be a nice thing to do.</p><p>Swiftness line should not be put back to what it was pre-tso, just have the reduction for TSO put into a group buff to help our own group heal ourselves as well helping the dps of the group that we are in. The way it was was a bit overboard with effects of some classes myth's, but a group buff to make up this defference for only the group we are in shouldn't OP it like it was ( wards were flying way too fast and those that noticed the drop in overall heal parses after TSO noticed it brought shammies at least a hair down percentage of heals)</p><p>D-fist, was OPed, now underpowered. The damage of d-fist should be brought up to the hitpoints of a nonheroic mob of the same level that you are attacking. Either by halfing the recast or doubling the damage that it is at now should probably do that. D-fist was always more in-line with assassin's execute than it was any fighter aa's, and the dev's stating it was brought in line with fighter damage just hurts my feelings. I'm sensitive. I did cry when I read the update notes on that one but I understand why a percentage hit had to be cut.</p><p>Dragonbreath should have a small attack speed reduction added to it, also inline with small increase in survivability that I have hinted at earlier.</p><p>So if ya haven't figured out my general desires for the monk class, small increase in 3: survivability, agro control, and dps and a larger increase in utility is what I want for the future of monks. Back in EoF I asked a simple question to my raid leader, "You want my monk or my son's assassin" his answer has formed what has been my philosphy on monks, "Bah, anyone can dps, bring that (<em>really</em>)(<em>awesome</em>) monkish  (<em>stuff</em>) you do!!"( Italliced parts changed for young viewers)</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><span style="color: #00ccff;">Don't make avoidance passed through tranquil vision all uncontested as that would be overpowered and do little for brawlers actual worth and jsut give us a powerfull utility.  Instead we should get the full amount of uncontested from our defensive stance added to every stance.</span></p>

[Fluffypaws]

<p>insta cast tsunami with +20% CA bonus go!</p>

[Queen Alexandria]

I like the flurry ability. Something needs to be done here... Monks are on the bottom of the raiding chain and there is a need to add usefullness to us and something to better define our role. We need to be able to tank well, but not as good as the other fighters and we need to DPS much more than any of the other fighters. Thats our tradeoff for offensive power. The way I understood it when i first started, i should be able to tank if needed, but my offensive prowess should be unrivaled compared to other fighters. This isn't the case at all with our offensive abilities.

[mr23sgte]

<p>After rolling a noob SK and seeing 5 AE's + an AE taunt, Passive Hate when hit ability and an AA for AA AE auto attack - I'm amazed on how E-Z it is to keep aggro on group encounters (even multiple group encounters) As a Monk this  a tab-fest and if its more than 1 group your essentially SOL.  would like to see something to Remedy this problem for the Monk Class I love to play.</p><p>1) Dragon Rage Line - Needs to be at the very least an AE taunt ability or sometime of passive hate.</p><p>2)  Brawler Stamina AA line changed to some sort of group hate ability.</p><p>3) I would like to see the Monk AA tree :Superior Riposte" changed back to the way it wa sin beta as a 15 second AE blocker, but make it group.</p><p>4) Change Brawler Wisdom AA "Crane Twirl" to AE autoattack.</p><p>5) Monk TSO AA "Med Healing" changed back as it was in the fighter Revamp plan to a 40% heal.</p><p>6) Brawler DA,MC and AE auto attack (after changed) = to all other Warrior/Crusader values</p>

[LTrav2k]

<p>I have a few thoughts on existing abilities which would help if they were tweaked to keep with the times.</p><p>Evade Check - please increase the amount of deagro this grants!  If the amount of deagro for the encounter were around 2.5k - 3k every time the skill activated, then it would be less of a tab fest since all of the group's hate has been reduced towards the encounter.</p><p>Tsunami - I like the 20% increase to CA damage while it is in effect, and I think it would represent the weak point exposed to the mob after riposting their attack.  It's already been stated that tons of classes have copied this ability, and so we definitely need something to make it stand out as ours being the "original".  Possibly having any riposte during tsunami have a chance to knockdown/interrupt would help?</p><p>Everburning - With haste being our mantra, and auto attacks our bread n butter for damage... I think it would be fitting for Everburning to provide a 50% increase to item proc chances relative to their initial proc %.  This would put dragon stance at a 75% chance initially, so grabbing threat would be much less of a chore.  My auto attack damage ends up being around 35% of my parse, and so procs seem to be the way for us to have an immediate improvement on damage at this point.</p><p>Combination - Before they started talking about increase the damage for combination, I always thought this would be better suited as a stance (like SK's Reaper stance).  It would give us another concentration block to use, and the effect could be granted anytime we satisfied the requirements to throw a "Combination" (using a jab, kick, punch CA within 2 seconds of each other).  Right now I have it macro'd to every CA which could activate it, so it works like a proc for me right now... I don't see myself firing off many more Combinations just due to the reuse timers on our moves.  It'd take a bit of planning to have combination work all the time, but it would give us a much needed boost in damage that would be associated with timing (as well as at the mercy of lag).</p><p>Reversal Claw - Was it too much avoidance to have this AA increase riposte chance versus deflection chance?  With how low riposte damage is, it's not overpowering to avoid an attack this way... even with assistance from the TSO riposte AAs. </p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">This reminds me, one ability I would want is the ability that, the Shackle Grandmaster we have to defeat, has whey we do out Epic.  The ability to spawn 1-2 clones.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Most of the rest of what you refer to seems ok to me. Is there an Upgrade to Tsunami? Mine is grey.</span></p>

[scalzo]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">This reminds me, one ability I would want is the ability that, the Shackle Grandmaster we have to defeat, has whey we do out Epic.  The ability to spawn 1-2 clones.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Most of the rest of what you refer to seems ok to me. Is there an Upgrade to Tsunami? Mine is grey.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Nope no Upgrade to Tsunami. And all fighters have it now just a different name.</span></p></blockquote>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Tsunami never upgrades.</p><p>Intercept stops upgrading at level 34 (true for all Fighters, or course.)</p><p>Instill Doubt stops upgrading at level 50, lowering it's effectiveness above level 70.</p><p>Mend stops upgrading at level 50.</p><p>We have a lot of abilities that are nerfed in effectiveness because they aren't allowed to get any better.</p>

[Nulgara]

<p><cite>Solais@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have a few thoughts on existing abilities which would help if they were tweaked to keep with the times.</p><p>Evade Check - please increase the amount of deagro this grants!  If the amount of deagro for the encounter were around 2.5k - 3k every time the skill activated, then it would be less of a tab fest since all of the group's hate has been reduced towards the encounter.</p><p>Tsunami - I like the 20% increase to CA damage while it is in effect, and I think it would represent the weak point exposed to the mob after riposting their attack.  It's already been stated that tons of classes have copied this ability, and so we definitely need something to make it stand out as ours being the "original".  Possibly having any riposte during tsunami have a chance to knockdown/interrupt would help?</p><p>Everburning - With haste being our mantra, and auto attacks our bread n butter for damage... I think it would be fitting for Everburning to provide a 50% increase to item proc chances relative to their initial proc %.  This would put dragon stance at a 75% chance initially, so grabbing threat would be much less of a chore.  My auto attack damage ends up being around 35% of my parse, and so procs seem to be the way for us to have an immediate improvement on damage at this point.</p><p>Combination - Before they started talking about increase the damage for combination, I always thought this would be better suited as a stance (like SK's Reaper stance).  It would give us another concentration block to use, and the effect could be granted anytime we satisfied the requirements to throw a "Combination" (using a jab, kick, punch CA within 2 seconds of each other).  Right now I have it macro'd to every CA which could activate it, so it works like a proc for me right now... I don't see myself firing off many more Combinations just due to the reuse timers on our moves.  It'd take a bit of planning to have combination work all the time, but it would give us a much needed boost in damage that would be associated with timing (as well as at the mercy of lag).</p><p>Reversal Claw - Was it too much avoidance to have this AA increase riposte chance versus deflection chance?  With how low riposte damage is, it's not overpowering to avoid an attack this way... even with assistance from the TSO riposte AAs. </p></blockquote><p>I liek most of the ideas here.</p><p>Everburning. I'ld much rather the flurry option rather then the increased proc chance. procs are getting nerfed anyway and i doubt they would go through all that to nerf them and then give monks back a lot of the dmg procs can generate.</p><p>Combination yep I agree here too turn it into a concentration until concelled buff that fires when we execute the 3 attacks in rapid succession and it needs a serious dmg boost to be worth it.</p><p>Claw Reversal - I guess the answer to your question is obvious that it somehow was too much avoidance. risposte is uncontested avoidance so this skill was aweseme now it measly 16% boost to contested deflection is decent in group content completely useless in raids. change it back to risposte or make it modify min deflection.</p><p>evade check -  being an endline aa this skill shoudl be a an ae de-agro for all non fighters to every mob your engaged with not jsut a singel encounter. changing it to such would be an excellent means of controlling ae agro in multi mob encounters.</p><p>Personally i think a great upgrade to Tsunami woudl be</p><p>Drunken Master - Gives caster 100% chance to risposte all frontal melee and combat art based attacks for 15 seconds, attacks form other quadrants will haev the same chance of being parried. During this brief intoxication the monk will be immune to all control effects and will cure all control effects, can be cast even when a control effect is active on the monk.</p><p>then we also need at least 1 more direct and ae taunt(and yes i think every tank should have at minimum 2 singel and 2 ae taunts plus taunt procs rescue and teh aa rescues).</p><p>single target</p><p>voice of the brute - The monk growls and screams in a harsh guttoral tone, challenging his target in a fight to the death. increases hate 1700-2200 recast 20 seconds</p><p>Ae</p><p>Venom of the Asp - The monk reals back and spits a spray of noxious venom at all targets around him, causing 55-80 dmg every 2 seconds for 10 seconds, increasing hate by 132-170 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds and increasing hate 2000-2600 with all enemies within 15 feet of the monk. max aoe targets 8 recast 1 minute.</p><p>something liek that i think woudl go a long way to bring our hate abilities up to par and make it less of a tab fest.</p><p>I also woudl go as far to think that everburning should also have some sort of re-active taunt when hit but that is prolly a little too much hehe. it woudl depend on how everything else turned out.</p>

[lavrence]

<p><cite>Nulgara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Solais@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>Personally i think a great upgrade to Tsunami woudl be</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Drunken Master </span>- Gives caster 100% chance to risposte all frontal melee and combat art based attacks for 15 seconds, attacks form other quadrants will haev the same chance of being parried. During this brief intoxication the monk will be immune to all control effects and will cure all control effects, can be cast even when a control effect is active on the monk.</p><p>then we also need at least 1 more direct and ae taunt(and yes i think every tank should have at minimum 2 singel and 2 ae taunts plus taunt procs rescue and teh aa rescues).</p><p>single target</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">voice of the brute </span>- The monk growls and screams in a harsh guttoral tone, challenging his target in a fight to the death. increases hate 1700-2200 recast 20 seconds</p><p>Ae</p><p>Venom of the Asp - The monk reals back and spits a spray of noxious venom at all targets around him, causing 55-80 dmg every 2 seconds for 10 seconds, increasing hate by 132-170 every 2 seconds for 10 seconds and increasing hate 2000-2600 with all enemies within 15 feet of the monk. max aoe targets 8 recast 1 minute.</p><p>something liek that i think woudl go a long way to bring our hate abilities up to par and make it less of a tab fest.</p><p>I also woudl go as far to think that everburning should also have some sort of re-active taunt when hit but that is prolly a little too much hehe. it woudl depend on how everything else turned out.</p></blockquote><p>Like were u are goin with these but man do they sound like bruiser (the more streat fighter of the brawlers) abilities</p><p>yes i agree something needs to be done with tsunami and an aditional taunt would be great ( or they can make peel work on everything)</p><p>for tsunami i would like to see Flurry or Combat art DA added to it you no something new and monkish</p><p style="text-align: center;">~~Lavrence starleaf~~~~80 Monk~~</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>lavrence wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nulgara@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Solais@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>Personally i think a great upgrade to Tsunami woudl be</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Drunken Master </span>- Gives caster 100% chance to risposte all frontal melee and combat art based attacks for 15 seconds, attacks form other quadrants will haev the same chance of being parried. During this brief intoxication the monk will be immune to all control effects and will cure all control effects, can be cast even when a control effect is active on the monk.</p><p>then we also need at least 1 more direct and ae taunt(and yes i think every tank should have at minimum 2 singel and 2 ae taunts plus taunt procs rescue and teh aa rescues).</p><p>single target</p><p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">voice of the brute </span>- The monk growls and screams in a harsh guttoral tone, challenging his target in a fight to the death. increases hate 1700-2200 recast 20 seconds</strong></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>looks more like a zerk ability to me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and drunken master is not really a monk ability in EQ2 ... since monks are ascets, they don't get drunk ... it's not the same martial art <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. because everyone knows to do the drunken art, you have had to be drunk at least once in your life ^^.</p><p>there are spells that don't get upgrades coz they are fine as it is (tsunami is a 100% dodge so the only way better is more time it works ... if at first it was only 50% then upgrade to 100% with levels, same with deaf stone ... it's a 3 proc magical stoneskin ... only way to improve it is duration or number of procs .. sanctuary is the same ... there are abilities already great ... only problem is it's hard to find masters :s)</p><p>then to aswer somebody the proc change only is about gear proc not spell proc. normally the proc for CA buffs or spells shouldn't change. Only the proc from objet won't crit anymore.</p><p>If you ask for a proc, don't forget to ask that it depends on melee crit .. coz right now the bruiser procs from off and middle stance proc only on spell crit ...</p>