Trophy lore

[Mystfit]

<p>So, two of the trophies I've collected so far are slightly different...Mayong's coffin (instead of head) and Levi's tentacle (instead of his head). I can udnerstand Mayong, in fact the trophy says you havent' seen the last of him yet, but why not Levi's head? I posted it here in case it was a lore answer.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>I don't really know for sure, but I am thinking that the leviathans that you fight in Chelsith are smaller parts of the Leviathan in Chamber of destiny...and that that too may be a smaller part of something bigger. Either that or it is mislabeled, like how Chel'drak trophy is his shell but is labeled as his head.</p><p>On the subject of trophies, I find it rather interesting that Venekor's trophy outright states that we shouldn't be surprised to see him again in the near future...While Trakanon's pretty much says that all of Veeshan's Peak is permanently kaput including himself. And Wuoshi's seems to somewhat suggest that killing him was not such a good thing.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Because his head alone would take up the entire central area of any guildhall. it's too big. Heck, most of them arn't proportionately sized correctly anyway. I don't think it really matters why. They're just trophies.</p>

[Arianah]

<p><cite>Haohmaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We also wanted the trophy to immediately identify the boss from which it came. Representations, like were mentioned in prior posts were considered, but generally just didn't have that immediate recognition we were looking for. No tooltip or examine should be required to know who's on display (though I do like the ideas of being able to mark your trophies in some fasion as mentioned). That's not to say we won't take some liberties here and there - for example, Chel'Draks trophy uses his shell. With all the dragons out there, why not pay a little additional respect to the lone dragon turtle!</p></blockquote><p>From <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=441878" target="_blank">Guild Hall Trophies, Page 3</a></p>

[Rainmare]

<p>What does woushi's trophy say?</p>

[Morghus]

<p>If I remember right, it was Wuoshi has been slain by the mighty heroes of your guild. His life will no longer nourish the Faydark.</p>

[Mystfit]

<p>Which has made me reluctant to acquire his head now.  I'm not sure I support the loss of Fay's nurisher...</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Because Woushi was the primary guardian of Tunare's Bloom which is a direct link to elements of Plane of Growth.</p><p>I mentioned somewhere else ... what's going to happen if Woushi is dead and no one is guarding the Bloom anymore?</p><p>What is Tunare going to do about it? She was the one who requested Woushi to move to Faywder with her bloom and watch over it. Is she going to move it again? Back to Velious or elsewhere? Or appoint a new guardian?</p><p>_______________</p><p>The text regarding Venekor is about his presence in Temple of Cazic-Thule/Spirits of the Lost and up in the Overrealm in the Halls of Seeing. Different places, different tiers. Though, I don't know if this is telling Venekor is going to show up again later on.</p><p>_______________</p><p>The Leviathan's tentacle is simply a smaller part of the whole. The beast was huge. We just saw a portion of the Leviathan in the Chamber.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The text regarding Venekor is about his presence in Temple of Cazic-Thule/Spirits of the Lost and up in the Overrealm in the Halls of Seeing. Different places, different tiers. Though, I don't know if this is telling Venekor is going to show up again later on.</p></blockquote><p>That's what I would normally think, but the fact is you cannot even obtain his head from any instance of Venekor other than the Halls of The Seeing version. I also believe I saw a while back something regarding him fleeing from the overealm whch seems to imply to me we will see him again. They also have never bothered in filling in some suspicions about who his parents were which I believe was debated briefly some time ago.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>You can't get his head from Halls of Seeing? It's been confirmed that he actually really does die when you kill him then and there.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>No, no, you only get his head in Halls of Seeing. Yet it still says you shouldn't be surprised to see him again on the trophy.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The text regarding Venekor is about his presence in Temple of Cazic-Thule/Spirits of the Lost and up in the Overrealm in the Halls of Seeing. Different places, different tiers. Though, I don't know if this is telling Venekor is going to show up again later on.</p></blockquote><p>That's what I would normally think, but the fact is you cannot even obtain his head from any instance of Venekor other than the Halls of The Seeing version. I also believe I saw a while back something regarding him fleeing from the overealm whch seems to imply to me we will see him again. They also have never bothered in filling in some suspicions about who his parents were which I believe was debated briefly some time ago.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm ... that shouldn't be possible unless it's an oversight. For instance, Vision of Vox in Permafrost and Lady Vox in the Crypt of Vox both drop a trophy.</p><p>Can someone confirm it at least?</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Having killed all 3 Venekors, I can confirm.  Cazic-Thule Contested and Spirits of the Lost both do NOT drop Venekor's head, ONLY the Halls of Seeing Venekor has a head.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, no, you only get his head in Halls of Seeing. Yet it still says you shouldn't be surprised to see him again on the trophy.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the head makes the trophy, correct? That's all that matters, and I believe that a developer once confirmed that Halls of Seeing is where he actually does die for good though.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, no, you only get his head in Halls of Seeing. Yet it still says you shouldn't be surprised to see him again on the trophy.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the head makes the trophy, correct? That's all that matters, and I believe that a developer once confirmed that Halls of Seeing is where he actually does die for good though.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe, I haven't heard anything recently about that though. I'm just going off of an old posting allegedly by Jindrack at <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lorelibrary.com</a> that implied that he was still alive after being fought in The Halls of Seeing.</p><p>Then again, with the general lack of information presented as to the consequences and results of raid encounters I wouldn't find it surprising to just write em off as dead. It's getting pretty troublesome in determining who is actually dead-dead as far as NPCs go without simply assuming.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, no, you only get his head in Halls of Seeing. Yet it still says you shouldn't be surprised to see him again on the trophy.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, the head makes the trophy, correct? That's all that matters, and I believe that a developer once confirmed that Halls of Seeing is where he actually does die for good though.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe, I haven't heard anything recently about that though. I'm just going off of an old posting allegedly by Jindrack at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lorelibrary.com" target="_blank">http://www.lorelibrary.com</a> that implied that he was still alive after being fought in The Halls of Seeing.</p><p>Then again, with the general lack of information presented as to the consequences and results of raid encounters I wouldn't find it surprising to just write em off as dead. It's getting pretty troublesome in determining who is actually dead-dead as far as NPCs go without simply assuming.</p></blockquote><p>Considering that all of us have died quite a few times in game, I really don't have a problem with NPCs reappearing later. Maybe someone resurrected the mob after we left?</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>In some cases that really wouldn't supprise me.  (Selrach Di'Zok for example, there's gotta be at least 1 priest in the whole of Chardok that doesn't get killed off)</p><p>In other cases the mob in question is immortal unless you do something to prevent the automatic reincarnation (Mayong will, like all vampires, regenerate as long as his coffin is intact for example, and as long as no one breaks the phylactery so will Venril and the Domini.  If he's ever put into the game, Miragul would also fall under this, as does Lucan D'Lere)</p><p>In still OTHER cases the death is canon, no one revives them, they be dead for good (Trakanon being the most recent example of this, Darathar is another)  Well, at least no one has revived him YET...</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Levi's tentacle (instead of his head).</blockquote><p>It may call it a tenticle, but thats his head...</p><p><a href="http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/?action=view&current=Leviathan.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff203/noaani/Leviathan.jpg" border="0" /></a></p><p>Of the trophies we have so far, only four have any text of significance.</p><p>Mayong says he will remain a significant force in Norrath, Venekor says we may see him again, Darathar says a new handler for the drakota must arise, and the godking says the ewer lies broken, but Anushti may yet return.</p><p>There are a few with additional text to the standard "%t has been slain by the heroes of your mighty guild", but the rest of them imply that the mob is indeed dead (Vox, Tarinax, Vyemm). There are maybe 4 or 5 that we don't have, so I don't know about those.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and the godking says the ewer lies broken, but Anushti may yet return.</p></blockquote><p>And as we know, the Ewer was indeed reformed by the Tier'Dal, Anashti has returned to Norrath, and she reclaimed the Ewer for herself.</p><p>As the lore goes the Godking was killed before the discovery of the Overrealm.</p><p>Sounds like a bit of revisionism on the part of the devs. But at least it makes sense.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Of course the Ewer being broken is only true if you havn't done Anashti Sul's quests.  Vox was 'dead' to begin with, what you fight is a remnant of her soul.  Most of the others just state the guy is dead though, that's true.  (I don't know about Venril's but I know that Venril doesn't 'die' in the permanent sense of the word, being a Lich.)  Even Darathar's, which you list as being significant isn't much more than saying "Darathar's dead, someone needs to be promoted", and if that's significant than Trakanon's saying flat out "The Lord of the Ring of Scale is dead, the Age of Dragons on Norrath is as an end" is equally significant.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Of course the Ewer being broken is only true if you havn't done Anashti Sul's quests.  Vox was 'dead' to begin with, what you fight is a remnant of her soul.  Most of the others just state the guy is dead though, that's true.  (I don't know about Venril's but I know that Venril doesn't 'die' in the permanent sense of the word, being a Lich.)  Even Darathar's, which you list as being significant isn't much more than saying "Darathar's dead, someone needs to be promoted", and if that's significant than Trakanon's saying flat out "The Lord of the Ring of Scale is dead, the Age of Dragons on Norrath is as an end" is equally significant.</p></blockquote><p>Trakanon is one of the trophies my guild doesn't have, as we haven't been bothered going in for it yet (will probably get it sometime soon, along with DMP).</p><p>Vox has a statement saying the statue is pieces of her body reformed by a master craftsman or some such.</p><p>The reason I consider Darathar's as significant is because the Drakota are powerful in their own right, and any new master of them will likely involve us players in some manner (either we are helping or hindering them in soe manner).</p><p>To me, significant means hints at future content more than anything, and I consider that an avenue that we will eventually go down again, much like we have already gone down the avenue hinted at on the godkinds statue (even if we did so before the statue was introduced to the game). I have no doubt we will see Venekor and Mayong again at some point.</p>

[Illine]

<p>what's the use of those trophees?</p><p>Yeah I stopped raiding and playing for a while so I don't know but saw some.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Considering that the examine text of the trophies is based on the expansion in which they're found, we've already 'seen' mayong again in RoK.  And he's likely to keep playing a role as he reveals whatever the heck he's got planned (and this is Mayong, you know it's going to be epic...)  Venekor wouldn't suprise me much either, but for the most part I think the text on the trophies is mostly just flavor beyond it saying "So and so is dead for good" or "So and so may turn up again later".  I seriously doubt that the death of Trakanon for example ends the age of dragons on Norrath, after all even though Kerafyrm wiped out the vast majority of them, there's gotta be some surviving member of the Claws of Veeshan out there (in addition to Kerafyrm the Awakened himself, now HIS death would probably mark the end of the age of dragons, or maybe lord Nagafen's)</p><p>Also the Use of the trophies is just to have a raid mob's head on display (or in the case of Mayong, a coffin.  In the case of Chel'Drak it's a piece of his shell)</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I seriously doubt that the death of Trakanon for example ends the age of dragons on Norrath</blockquote><p>Didn't Zeb have something to say about this?</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Yes, but my point is that Trakanon simply isn't so all important that his death suddenly makes whatever dragons still remain useless.  Nagafen and Kerafyrm at least probably still have their parts to play, and it's quite possible that there are other dragons left alive.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>The end of the Age of Dragons does not mean dragons no longer play a part, it means they are no onger the dominant force in Norrath. Trakanons death could well signify that.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The end of the Age of Dragons does not mean dragons no longer play a part, it means they are no onger the dominant force in Norrath. Trakanons death could well signify that.</p></blockquote><p>That's the implication. Few sources said this. The trophy, few comments made by significant npcs, etc. The dragons' power on Norrath is fading. Kerafyrm, Nagafen, that little dragon, and maybe couple others most likely will continue to play a role, but overall the dragons' days are over.</p>

[Mystfit]

<p>Didn't the little baby dragon that ran off in the frostfell instance imply he'd be back? Maybe he's the one to raise to lead the dragons.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>I beleive the dragon from frostfell was a she, and the devs stated that we haven't seen the last of her...adn that 'they grow up so fast'</p><p>I still think that if the shadowedmen actually let Naggy get his claws on that device like it was alluded to in the quests/texts in OoB...that Naggy might try to turn this new queen of ice into Vox, mark 2</p>

[Cakassis]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Naggy might try to turn this new queen of ice into Vox, mark 2</p></blockquote><p>Mechavox?</p>

[Galithdor]

<p><cite>Cakassis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Naggy might try to turn this new queen of ice into Vox, mark 2</p></blockquote><p>Mechavox?</p></blockquote><p>Pecisely...<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rainmare]

<p>well...hmm..kinda.</p><p>more like a vox in a new younger, stronger body. Bionic Vox!</p><p>I mean here we have Lord Nagafen, foiled by his inability to leave Sol eye and our ineptitude/lack of power to properly utilize a dragonic ressurection. now we have this message/note/plan from the obelisk of blight saying they are going to 'allow' a dragon lord that his highly likely Nagafen to find a device that can transfer/swipe dragonic essences. they know what he'll try, same as we should.</p><p>use it to restore Vox.</p><p>Now, we have this new ice queen...a younger, strong ice dragoness. who we've been told we'll 'see again' and that 'they grow up so fast'. Nagafen has a favor we owe him in safe keeping.</p><p>Sounds like a perfect testing time, doesn't it. Naggy can't leave Sol Eye...so calls in his favor, hands us the device he 'found'. and sends us on our merry way to take Vox's essence, and put it in a brand new, free, and younger body.  Which coudl also lead to the hint at oneof the fanfaires that Naggy's clutch of prismatic eggs will need to be dealt with eventually...provided that he needs Vox to actually be able to hatch them.</p>

[FreaklyCreak]

<p>When I found out the frostfell IceDragon was cannon lore, I thought EXACTLY the same thing. =)</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>ugh more evil dragons that we will have to kill? why are there never any nice ones? bleh i miss skyshrine</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>shadowscale wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>ugh more evil dragons that we will have to kill? why are there never any nice ones? bleh i miss skyshrine</p></blockquote><p>You think the dragons in Skyshrine were nice?</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>In the traditional DnD sense, I don't really believe that there are any "Good" dragons on Norrath personally. I'm not sure what Dragon in Norrath lore would come close to a Lawful Good dragon, lol.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Lawful Good would be the 4 Crusaders in Skyshrine who were appointed to place Kerafyrm back asleep if they ever get the chance to. They've been tasked with keeping the peace for the greater good of all dragon-kind, and all lesser races as well, but probably not intentionally.</p>

[BleemTeam]

<p>Lawful, I would understand as they are trying to uphold Dragon Law. But good however? I tend to lean toward Neutral. Because they are really only intending on protecting "their" kind on "their" planet. Dragons seem to think mortals are insignificant creatures, ya?</p>

[shadowscale]

<p>if the age of dragons is comeing to an end, its possable the rest will have to reconise that mortals could prove benafital to ally with rather then be seen as lessers.</p>

[Jgok]

<p><cite>Brailyn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lawful, I would understand as they are trying to uphold Dragon Law. But good however? I tend to lean toward Neutral. Because they are really only intending on protecting "their" kind on "their" planet. Dragons seem to think mortals are insignificant creatures, ya?</p></blockquote><p>If you're trying to protect other people, but you ignore the plight of chickens around the world, are you lawful, but not good?</p><p>To most dragons, we are merely crunchy food that tastes good with ketchup... Much like chickens are to us <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Morghus]

<blockquote><p><cite> </cite></p><p>If you're trying to protect other people, but you ignore the plight of chickens around the world, are you lawful, but not good?</p><p>To most dragons, we are merely crunchy food that tastes good with ketchup... Much like chickens are to us <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Aside from being bigger and individually stronger than most other races, as far as we are led to believe they "were here first". Most if not all the other races are likely considered to be "interlopers" much as our gods are.</p><p>Norrath itself in the eyes of dragonkind had originally been intended to be their world and theirs alone.  This passage written by Darathar as the sage of ages likely related how most dragons felt, as all of his tomes were clearly biased somewhat with his opinions:</p><p>"As the Age of Cataclysms came, the Dragons would watch as their world would change drastically. Their jewel, their gift from the great Mother, was being ripped apart before their very eyes. The gods had come and gone, and in their wake devastation followed."</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>the dragons that see us as interlopers/unwanted invaders I would much prefer to dragons like Nagafen/Darathar, who see us as pawns in a dragonic chessgame. I'd rather face a dragon's angry flame, then one with a smile and sweet words anyday heh.</p>

[Daine]

<p>I think the dragon from the Frostfell event is the one that the guides have been running quests for (2 that I know of).  There was one where you had to guide it home, and one where you had to help it grow.  I think the name was Emille or Emily...anyways it's certainly got the same model.  Perhaps we'll raise it through guide quests and help it become leader of the drakota...fun idea, anyways.</p>