Ideas to better the Inquis. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Orthureon

05-05-2009, 08:31 PM

I know this will be a repeat of what I said in the past, but I am going to start posting this or an updated version every month until I atleast get an answer to whether the ideas are feasible to introduce. I don't think once a month would be considered spam would it?<ol><li>Sacrifice: Drains the healed amount from both the mob and the Cleric. Split 50/50. IE heals for 10k drains 5k hp from the mob and Cleric. <ul><li>Alternate Sacrifice Idea 1: It could be a 2:1 ratio that inflicts varying damage depending on how much is healed. If the Cleric heals 10k it should only hit the cleric for half the amount. On the other end of the spectrum - if the cleric heals 2k it should not drain 95% of their health </li><li>Alternate Sacrifice Idea 2: Make it a "Soul Ward" type of spell, where it would sacrifice a set amount of Health and Power from both the mob and Inquisitor for a ward of "x" amount of points. 6k instant cast ward on a 3 minute timer would suffice. As that will absorb about 2-3 hits from any difficult mob. IE 6000 split 4 ways 25% HP and Power from the mob and 25% HP and Power from the Inquisitor. Also, when I say 25% I mean 25% of 6000 (1500) hehe.</li></ul></li><li>Maladroit: Double power cost (or more); reduces ALL detrimental effects on the group by 50%. </li><li>Damage Reactives: Castable on self or group, triggers off of said outgoing and/or incoming action, 1 second cast time. </li><li>Heretic's Demise line: Adds an effect to all encounter mobs and procs off of each death, getting stronger for each fallen enemy. </li><li>Divine Aura: 5 minute reuse like the Shadow Knight. Or make it groupwide with a 10 minute reuse. </li><li>(ALL PRIESTS) Emergencies: 2-3 times the size in healing, perhaps even a shorter recast (For all healers). </li><li>Steadfast: Immunity to interrupts , on any incoming damage 25% chance to proc immunity to knockback effects for 5s. Only the knockback effect, the damage will still land. Just to clarify the Stifle immunity portion would be replaced with the knockback immunity. <ul><li>Alternate Steadfast idea: On any incoming damage 5-10% chance to proc immunity to Stun/Stifle/Daze/Knockback for 5 seconds.</li></ul></li><li>Inquisition: Change the spell to drain health from the mob and heal for that amount. Also, add an effect on to the new AA in the Inquisitor line of the Shadows tree, that once it is maxed it is unresistable.<ul><li>Damage Potential: It would seem that the damage would be huge, but it would go hand in hand with how much is healed - on the average parse Inquisition heals for roughly 150-300 HPS (400 being very high).</li></ul></li><li>Enhanced Devotion: Remove all penalties associated with Enhanced Devotion. Casting speed of hostile Spells/CA given or Spell/CA base damage increased. </li><li>Fervent Faith: Should cure and grant an immunity to all control effects for a period of time for just the Inquisitor. (IE Single target Sanctuary). </li><li>Incarcerate: the root effect will still have the same chance to break, however the stifle effect will persist for the duration. Half duration for PVP. </li><li>Tenacity: the DPS mod converted point for point into Weapon Damage Bonus. As DPS mod is almost always capped in groups, nevermind raids. </li><li>Cleric - Wisdom line: revamp would be greatly appreciated aswell. <ul><li>Damage to undead proc: Make it act just like the Bane items do, however for any non-undead halve the proc rate aswell.</li><li>Endline Stoneskin: Absorbs 25% of incoming damage for all others vs non-undead. This is a damage reducer not a stoneskin. Mob hits you for 100 you only take 75 damage.</li></ul></li><li>Act of War: Knockback effect would be great, and a higher proc rate. Also, I don't think any other class has a group buff that grants a knockback. Try mixing it up a little more SoE! </li><li>Reactive Heals: Small damage attached to each trigger, maybe one tenth of the amount healed. So at max it would usually hit for around 90-150 (really nice crit) damage. Perhaps this could be a new AA, or replace the endline of Punishments with this.</li></ol>

TinkerGnome

05-14-2009, 12:00 AM

1) Sacrifice has already been deemed "Overpowered" once already. I don't think any changes will go in anytime soon. I do think though that anything that procs from heals should also proc from this ability however. This is assuming trigger procs don't. I have not looked into this nor have I noticed.2) For an end-line ability that nobody uses (that I know of anyway). Why not just cure it instead? This is also assuming it is curable to begin with. In my opinion, this end-line needs to be revamped all together and made into something usefull.3) We Inquisitors have the punishment spells that are SUPPOSED to work like that. As far as I can tell, they are worthless outside of PvP since the triggers are random and do not work as intended i.e. Punishment spell staying on a mob until dead without one single trigger going off.. /sigh4) I kind of like this idea. Since the damage is really really low to begin with.5) Groupwide would be way OP. I think it's just fine as is..6) Maybe an AA line similar to Furies. One that increases heal amount of emergencies. I would not complain.7) Why not just make it a toggle to root yourself into place or something?<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Necros already have that.. I'd rather see a faster HoT tick.9) In a scout group this ability is already next to worthless with an Illy/Dirge. Not really sure what else you could do with this ability. The bonuses are nice so there would be a fine like between worthless and OP.10) An added effect similar to Sactuary (self) would be nice indeed. Maybe added into the FF AA line. 2 secs per point for example.11) Since 99.9% of Inquisitors are melee spec. This spell really does what it is already intended to do. Lock someone or something down until you get reactives up and/or some debuffs in before you start thumping on thier skull.12) Would be nice to see some kind of added effect. A weapon mod would indeed be nice since most scouts should be near capped on +dmg mods or near it.13) Might have been a good idea at the time I don't know, but yeah.. it's worthless. Please scrap asap. I do like your suggestions though. But that would just make too much sense. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />14) Proc rate is terrible. I guess with the TSO set making it free is the only way I'd use it as is.. Giving it a % to KB or the like would make it usefull though I agree. Probably only needs to be a fair % when it triggers however. Say %5 or less when the proc triggers. Any more then that would just be too much since your entire group has a chance to proc it.15) If I remember right, I believe Inq reactives did have dmg added into them at some point. I can't remember for sure. Since temps seem to have a little bit higher heal amount, I think this would be fair.I may edit more into this. I haven't really thought most of this stuff thru. Although you have to keep in mind that templars share the priest tree and have alot of tricks up thier sleaves as it is.

graxnip

05-14-2009, 01:57 PM

When the game launched back in 04 our reactive heals also did damage to the mob.I think it was removed when they changed the stifle effect on one of our our DD spells ( we could basically keep a mob stifled 100% )it was before lu 13 for sure.. but it was so long ago i cant remember.

Orthureon

05-14-2009, 05:01 PM

<cite>graxnip wrote:</cite><blockquote>When the game launched back in 04 our reactive heals also did damage to the mob.I think it was removed when they changed the stifle effect on one of our our DD spells ( we could basically keep a mob stifled 100% )it was before lu 13 for sure.. but it was so long ago i cant remember.</blockquote>Bah seriously? If the damage was low enough on reactive heals it wouldn't be OP it would be more in line with the class lore. Also, the stifle breaking is just silly, sure the root should break, but the stifle should persist. In no way would a 8s PVP stifle from an Inquisitor be overpowered, the recast is long enough where you cannot chain stifle them. As for a 16s PVE stifle it would only be useful against caster mobs, but would add some utility to the spell itself. The Templar gets two control effects with a decent duration that does NOT change in PVP, aswell as no chance to break when you attack your target both PVP and PVE.

Orthureon

05-14-2009, 05:36 PM

I just read through the update notes from 1-30 and did not see where they took out the damage from the Inquisitors reactives or where they directly changed the root/stifle, it does show when they changed the already nerfed version however.Stealth nerfs ftl.

Grimfang

05-14-2009, 07:56 PM

I *think* the damage portion of our reactives vanished in the LU13 thinge (I wasnt around at that time... I had to endure 3 weeks of no internet .. oh the horror of changing isps) and when I was back, the damage part of the reactives were... well, gone. The damage was around the same as the Vengeance line.Getting the damage portion back on the reactives would be nice, but through AA's ... like you suggested, as end ability to the punishment line wich kind of is fitting as inquisitors and because that endline is lacking, just like the stupid maladroit skill.This is quoting the original manual <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />"Inquisitors are zealots who relentlessly advance their religiousdoctrines and accept no compromises in their beliefs. Skilledhealers, they minister to the body while seizing control of the soul."and this is from the eq2 website"Inquisitors invoke divine strikes against their opponents and retaliate with unyielding conviction against those who dare to harm their allies."It fits our class to actually hurt our opponent while healing our comrades. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> (damage part added to reactives)I did some digging on the old update notes... this is from LU10:"- The reactive heal portion of the Inquisitor spells Favor of the Repentant and Stinging Penance should now trigger properly, regardless of whether or not the damage shield was resisted."Observe: "... damage shield..." That hints that we still had the damage portion of our reactives even after that patch. The problem with the LU13 patch notes is that it isnt listing ALL changes made... but refers to this: For a more complete list of changes, please see the EQ2Players.com websiteAnd I havent found any traces of that info there <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well, I found the page that should have all the info of the combat changes, but it is blank <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

graxnip

05-14-2009, 09:36 PM

yeah dont get me wrong - i'd love for them to add that back onto our reactives - directly or through AA. As stated - replace the end punishments ability with that.I was like level 30ish when the dmg was removed from the reactives.. feels like ages ago. I remember being very [Removed for Content] at that.

Orthureon

05-15-2009, 05:28 AM

I could understand why you would be mad, I would be too lol. The damage being as much as vengeance is OP though I can definitely see why it should have been NERFED, though not removed entirely. Make it do about 2-3x the damage thorns do for Druids, especially since we need to cast something in order for it to be active, theirs is passive. Simply REPLACE the endline on punishments with this, BOOM fixed no fuss, no one uses that craptastic taunt added to the reactives anyways. Atleast Maladroit is more useful than that.

SlickSlamander

07-08-2009, 10:14 PM

Wow, damage sheilds on reactives sounds pretty sweet, even if they are pretty minimal on damage. I also play a Defiler and with the T1/T2(maybe T3, not sure) TSO armor sets it adds a pretty nice size damage shield to both wards. I am pretty sure that would mean that Mystics also recieve that bonus, since both classes share armor. I want to say its around 600-700 damage, will have to check. Seems to fit that a Inquisitor should have some means to getting this added to their arsenal.

Muraazi

07-09-2009, 03:20 AM

Coercify our damage reactives ftw... Well except Blasphemy. 8P

thog_zork

07-10-2009, 08:08 AM

i just recently leveld an inquisitor to 80 ...in general i like the class but it is amoung the first thing to notice where that the reactives dmg spells are really terrible i feel drepessed seeing so much useless spells one my hotbarso i will also sayCoercify our damage reactives ftw !make Blashemy a self buff which triggers on our heals and inflict dmg to the mob !give us dmg shield on reactives <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Calain80

07-16-2009, 08:34 AM

I just want to add an PvE point of view. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><ol><li>Sacrifice: Just make it work as written meaning that it only drains what is healed or increase the remaining hp to 10% and give us a 5s ae immunity so we have a chance to survive the next hit, as it is currently highly inferior to Soul Ward.</li><li>Maladroit: Keep it on the mob but let it reduce all debuffs by 50% or all hostile spells by 25%.</li><li>Damage Reactives: Castable on self or group, triggers off of said outgoing and/or incoming action. - Good Idea</li><li>Heretic's Doom: Adds an effect to all encounter mobs and procs off of each death, getting stronger for each fallen enemy. - Good Idea</li><li>Divine Aura: 5 minute reuse like the Shadow Knight. Or make it groupwide with a 10 minute reuse. - Good Idea</li><li>(ALL PRIESTS) Emergencies: 2-3 times the size in healing, perhaps even a shorter recast (For all healers). - Was already mentioned, that something will be done about them.</li><li>Steadfast: Keep as is. Anything else would be overpowered.</li><li>Inquisition: Change the spell to additionally drain health from the mob. A good value would be the close range heal amount.Also, add an effect on to the new AA in the Inquisitor line of the Shadows tree, that once it is maxed it is unresistable.</li><li>Enhanced Devotion: Remove all penalties associated with Enhanced Devotion. - Nothing more needed.</li><li>Fervent Faith:While Sanctuary is better for sure, I'm OK with it as it is.</li><li>Incarcerate:Currently absolutely useless in PvE. As you shortened the time by quite a bit please also reduce the chance to break by quite a bit.</li><li>Fearful Conversion: Useless in PvE due to the high chance of adds after the mezz wears of, but is is OK if only one ability is useless in PvE. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>Tenacity: Some additional effect other then DPS and HP would be nice, esp. due to hard caps, but it should mainly be s DPS / HP buff.</li><li>Cleric - Wisdom line: revamp would be greatly appreciated aswell. - so true.</li><li>Act of War: Could really need some additional effect or just a higher proc chance / damage.</li><li>Reactive Heals: Small damage attached to each trigger, maybe one tenth of the amount healed. So at max it would usually hit for around 90-150 (really nice crit) damage. Perhaps this could be a new AA, or replace the endline of Punishments with this. - nice idea</li><li>No STR / melee effects on Inquisitor T4 set: We have the exact same stats on our armor as Templar, while we have a completely different focus. Templar is usually the MT / OT healer. Inquisitor is usually the solo DPS group healer. Also the Templar is mainly spell based and the Inquisitor melee based. Some changes here would be nice.</li><li>5 piece bonus on Inquisitor T4 set: Currently the 5 piece bonus is not really useful, as in a DPS group we won't get much out of an reactive heal proc. Here are some of my ideas:<ul><li>A huge damage proc from any attack or a mediocre heal amount for an 100% heal proc (maybe even damage + heal). A proc like the old ROK Avatar leggings "Woodland Leggings of Dawn" would be cool.An upgraded version of the T3 Shaman leggings proc (proc of Melee attack instead of spells) would also be nice.</li><li>Some way to enhance our group would be nice.<ul><li>Add 5 crit miti to Tenacity (or a 10% crit miti proc of heals)</li><li>Add spell haste and recovery to Devotion</li><li>Give us a group wide enhancement to proc chances</li><li>Add a single target power tap to "Act of War" (power for the group member)</li><li>Add a single target heal proc to "Act of War"</li></ul></li><li>Or even allow us to enhance the Inquisitor itself:<ul><li>Add AE immunity for the Inquisitor to Devotion (or at least physical AEs)</li><li>Make Sacrifice a massive life tap draining the mobs health to heal the tank instead of the Inquisitors life.</li><li>Change Inquisition into a lifedrain, so the mob suffers the close range heal amount as damage.</li></ul></li></ul></li></ol>I will also cross post this at <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=422683" target="_blank">Top Class Balance Issues for Inquisitors</a> to consolidate everything in one thread.

krrr

07-16-2009, 11:07 AM

I agree with most points stated above, but want to add a little bit too Damage Reactives: Castable on self or group, triggers off of said outgoing and/or incoming action. --- Another version: castable on mob, triggers on incoming damage (similar to Assassins Mark)Enhanced Devotion: Remove all penalties associated with Enhanced Devotion. - Nothing more needed.--- Remove everything except reuse bonus and make it permanent group/raid wide buff.--- Another idea for Devotion: Turn it into permanent buff that costs % of HP or/and power to maintain per second (similar to necromancer's Lich line, but with greater cost and benefits) while active it should act as very powerfull offensive buff for group. Maybe add "caster is immune to heals" (or "incoming heals reduced by x %" ) as an option to prevent constant usage.

Orthureon

07-16-2009, 07:38 PM

<cite>Darlock@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree with most points stated above, but want to add a little bit too Damage Reactives: Castable on self or group, triggers off of said outgoing and/or incoming action. --- Another version: castable on mob, triggers on incoming damage (similar to Assassins Mark)... you do realize that is how it currently works correct?Enhanced Devotion: Remove all penalties associated with Enhanced Devotion. - Nothing more needed.--- Remove everything except reuse bonus and make it permanent group/raid wide buff.Do not like it at all, we should not lose any bonuses.--- Another idea for Devotion: Turn it into permanent buff that costs % of HP or/and power to maintain per second (similar to necromancer's Lich line, but with greater cost and benefits) while active it should act as very powerfull offensive buff for group. Maybe add "caster is immune to heals" (or "incoming heals reduced by x %" ) as an option to prevent constant usage.Prevent constant usage? What would be the point in that? You do realize a major nerf is incoming for Inquisitors with the expansion.</blockquote>

Calain80

07-16-2009, 07:48 PM

No he talks about incoming damage on the mob like they changed the Coercer. That would also be a valid change to make them useful.

Orthureon

07-16-2009, 07:53 PM

<cite>Calberak@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>No he talks about incoming damage on the mob like they changed the Coercer. That would also be a valid change to make them useful.</blockquote>Ah yeah my fault I completely disregarded the Assassin Mark mechanics.

krrr

07-16-2009, 10:24 PM

<cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Darlock@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enhanced Devotion: Remove all penalties associated with Enhanced Devotion. - Nothing more needed.--- Remove everything except reuse bonus and make it permanent group/raid wide buff.Do not like it at all, we should not lose any bonuses.--- Another idea for Devotion: Turn it into permanent buff that costs % of HP or/and power to maintain per second (similar to necromancer's Lich line, but with greater cost and benefits) while active it should act as very powerfull offensive buff for group. Maybe add "caster is immune to heals" (or "incoming heals reduced by x %" ) as an option to prevent constant usage.Prevent constant usage? What would be the point in that? You do realize a major nerf is incoming for Inquisitors with the expansion.</blockquote></blockquote>1: We will "loose" things like INT and melee haste. And this things are non relevant in 99% of cases. But we gain permanent reuse bonus and that's good2: I added "prevent constant useage" because I think that buff provided should be POWERFULL. Something like 100% spell double-attack for casters and 100% flurry for melee. If such thing is not balanced by big penalty it would be OP, heavy % HP cost and immunity to incoming heals also add risk to it.