The Dev Q&A Thread - 4.6.09 - Answers!!! [Archive]

Kiara

05-04-2009, 10:32 PM

Q: Will the house burynais loot table ever be expanded to include all the new collection quest items from TSO and other new collection quests that have been added since the RoK launch?A: This is an idea we’ve discussed, and you will likely see some (though not all) of the TSO collection items available through the burynai in the near future.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will the neutral avatar charm 2 set bonus ever be upgraded to be more in line with good and evil avatar charm 2 set?A: The neutral set was designed to fit in the middle ground between dps oriented loot setup and the defensive focus of the good. So we think it actually works well for how the neutral deity items are setup and gives a non-dps or defensive oriented option.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Shell we have armor/weapon sets with different combination of pieces - like a set of weapon+shield; two-weapons set (primary & sec. slots); ranged weapon+charm set?A: There is at least one 2-weapon set available from Shard of Fear, so these types of sets are certainly a possibility. While there’s no specific info we can give you about which sets will be available in the future, we do have plans to keep creating new ones.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will you add adornments that should have existed but were never found in the game, e.g. beside a +1% block chance for a shield on lvl 50, there should be an adornment with +2% or +3% on lvl 70...A: We are planning to review the existing adornments and you can expect some changes, however until we finish the review, and figure out what we’re going to do, it’s hard to share anything significant.~~~~~~~~~~Q: What's behind the idea not to improve some items of the Dirge TSO x4 set (if compared to the Dirge RoK set)? For example, Conjurors changing their RoK sets onto TSO got reduction of reuse time and some better pet abilities...A: Every piece of Dirge TSO raid armor is a vast upgrade to its RoK counterpart. I’d need to hear specific complaints to answer this question in more detail.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Can we expect any other types of mounts? Actually something flying (a baby-dragon for example or a sokokar) would be a great addition to the game. And do yo plan to introduce new or change old mounts to give them even a higher speed bonus (oh, why was the lava carpet nerfed?!!!)?A: Yes and yes =) New types of mounts are quite time consuming for our artists, so those are released less frequently, but you’ll definitely see more of them in the future. We’ve discussed adding flying creatures as mounts, though if added they would hover as opposed to fully flying (our zones are not currently designed to allow for unrestricted movement of this type). There are still some technical issues with increasing mount speed over a certain point, but we’ve discussed fixes for that and should have faster mounts available at some point.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Are there plans to increase the AP gain rate? I.E. Curve adjustments, adjusting the xp conversion rate to be similar to KoS, or more AP awarding repeatable quests. The game has gone to great lengths to increase level speed as fast as practical to the point where even with casual play the level cap can be reached within 2-4weeks. While the curve is adjusted ever more favorably whenever AP is added, content to gain that AP does not increase in proportion and the push for the remaining AP is more chore than fun.The current system also negatively affects player behaviour;once I neared 140AP in RoK, I stopped doing quests because I knew I'd need the quest Axp to make the AP gain reasonable for the next expansion. Former producer Scott Hartsman stated at RoK launch that the fun part of the game was not having to worry about the grind and just playing. If that philosophy is still true then it should be applied to AP as well.A: This was actually done prior to the release of The Shadow Odyssey. We found that the curve from 100 to 140 was especially difficult and was tuned down quite a bit.~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will any sort of change be made to AA gain? As it stands people are often forced into an AA grind later on which just isn't any fun. The ability to convert combat experience to AA or simply gain more AA would be much appreciated by the player base and would allow for more playstyles so that we can play the game for fun and not for fun later on after a daunting grind. A: Once you are level 80, you do convert all of your experience to achievement experience. You can also obtain experience in a number of ways such as doing additional quests, mentoring players, completing TSO missions and various other ways.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Curiosity question (not designed to restart the debate on the xp change): Levels 20-69 received the curve, but not levels 70-80. I am curious as to the reasoning not to include the 70-80 in the curve. AA points? Non-level cap increase? Non-raid content? All of the above?A: When we adjust level curves its generally to make progression through older content a little faster, so that you can get to spending time with your friends just a little faster. The current 71-80 range may get adjusted whenever we raise the level cap again but not until that point. ~~~~~~~~~~Q: Could you look at the difficulty of the 68ish-80+ solo mobs? As a healer when I have to solo I go splat if I accidently get more than 1 or they stun me for 20 seconds (exaggeration-but it feels like a really long time). I'm not talking about the group mobs. Group play is a lot of fun just the solo mobs can beat a lone healer into the ground with stuns and stifles. Or give us better tools to deal with stuns and stifles. I only have access to one ability that breaks stuns and stifles (thru aa) and it is on a 5 min timer and hardly ever works. Please help the lone healer <img src="file:///C|/Documents and Settings/crenzetti/Application Data/Macromedia/Dreamweaver 8/OfficeImageTemp/clip_image002.gif" width="15" height="15" />.A: Some classes naturally have more difficulty with multiple solo mobs than others. However, everyone can currently solo pretty effectively if they are careful. There are no plans though to increase any class handling multiple solo mobs at once. If there is a particular mob that is solo and has long stuns then I would suggest submitting feedback on that so we can take a look at the individual abilitiy rather than adjusting classes to solo better.~~~~~~~~~~Q: The new armor appearances from the X2 raid zone are awesome and unique, but is there any intention of implementing these same appearances for those of us who don't have the opportunity, time, etc, to raid? If so, when?A: These appearances will eventually make their way into solo or small group content, but I would not expect to see that happen for quite some time.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will there be more gear with less classes on them in the future? Like how bards have gear made for them, and only useable by them. Get more gear that instead of 'all ___' would be 'sorcerers and summoners' or 'predators and rogues' for example? A few classes have an easier time gearing up, and cheaper as well. A bard has an easy time gearing up, usually on gear the only other classes able to use them are crusaders for some reason. Meanwhile most mage and scout dps items are very open, meaning they ma have to compete with atleast 5 other classes, if not more, resulting in these classes having a much harder time to gear up.A: Bards and Crusaders have more class-limited armor designed for them because their design is much more dependant on a broad set of stats than other classes. In order to be as effective as a non-hybrid, they require equal or nearly equal amounts of multiple stats which, in the hands of a non-hybrid, could be unbalancing. While it is true that there is less competition for these items, they are also less abundant and drop at a much lower rate.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will there ever be an 14 to 21 piece set, so that there is a slight chance templars are not forced to melee but can cast without loosing the Set-Bonus? Since i cannot change to CA like the inqs i really like to see some caster gear without switching to cover my body with tissues.A: I’m not sure I understand most of this question, so I apologize in advance if this is not the answer you were looking for: You’re unlikely to see very large sets of this nature mainly due to the difficulty of upgrading individual pieces later. The better a set bonus is, the less likely it is that a player will be willing to remove it to use new equipment. As far as offensive caster plate is concerned, you may see some of this, but the templar class is not intended to be a high dps caster, and thus not much equipment is created to help fill this role. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be any pieces of this type available, but they will not be widespread.~~~~~~~~~~ Q: Are shards/tickets/various other bits to trade to merchants now the standard for World Events, Pre-expansion events, Expansions, and Holiday Events?A: They were not originally designed to be, but as the events have expanded drastically over the past year they have been used more and more. It started as a merchant system for Erollisi Day in 2008 and was then used more extensively in the TSO Pre-expansion events last summer. We had not planned on using it again for Frostfell, but after receiving player feedback from the Test servers it became the obvious choice. You will see them used more often, particularly for events as it allows players to choose their own reward. Some players are interested in house items, others are not. Some like new armor choices, others love their current look. By using a merchant it doesn’t matter if they are interested in house items, armor, equipment, mounts, pets, etc.; everyone has a better chance of finding something that catches their eye.~~~~~~~~~~Q: This question was discussed in December chat but I think it's right time to ask again - shall we see new summer events or the Nights of the Dead is the closest one?A: There are some celebrations coming this summer, but that’s all we can say right now, sorry.~~~~~~~~~~Q: The spell name convention got quite a positive feedback on the Russian forum. A related question is - does dev's team plan any changes in spell rank system? Currently Apprentice II-IV, Adept II and IV, Master III-IV tiers are almost not used at all if ever were. Should we make this clean and neat as well?A: Actually we have removed that system with the spell renaming project in favor of a simpler naming convention. Apprentice II spells were removed altogether since few use them. Apprentice IV was renamed to Journeyman. Adept 1 became simply Adept. Adept IIIs have become Expert. Master I is simply Master while Master II spells are now Grandmaster.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will you be expanding tinkered items? I would love to blast through Sinking Sands on a gnomish dirt bike with dual elemental capacitors WOO WOO <img src="file:///C|/Documents and Settings/crenzetti/Application Data/Macromedia/Dreamweaver 8/OfficeImageTemp/clip_image002_0000.gif" width="15" height="15" />And think about raising the level of our Cow Launcher I wanna pull new raid mobs with cattleA: As the level cap continues to rise, all tradeskills can expect more recipes and items. Tinkerers can also expect a bit of upcoming live event fun, as well.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Can someone confirm if harvesting is working as intended? With the ability to easily parse harvesting via ACT it is shown, time and time again on threads on this site, that the use of +harvesting gear has little or no effect on the success rates. A capped out t8 harvester with all the modifiers available is barely any more successful in harvest rates or rare rates than a harvester progressing through the tiers, at or significantly below cap. T5 is the obvious example of this. Is this tied in with the RNG again? While I acknowledge that a RNG can only truly be assessed over an "infinite" sample, most of us won't be around for the results of such a test. Therefore I really think that the RNG needs to "appear" to be random over the short term, as well as "be" random over the (infinitely) long term.A: You need to be significantly over the skill cap of a harvesting tier before you see a significant difference in the success rates. While higher harvesting skill does have an effect in T8, it is much more noticeable the higher your skill is above the node you are harvesting.

Kiara

05-04-2009, 10:32 PM

Q: Since druids are healer/dps hybrids (traded good mt/group buffs, debuffs and specialty heals that land after cleric and shaman heals, and less protective armor for dps) where should a druids DPS potentional be (when DPSing, not healing) in relation to the pure non dps classes like plate tanks, non druid healers, bards and chanters ideally if gear/skill were equal?All healers heal relatively equally but from boxng (but not really doing anything but occasiaonal autoattacking a brigand, swashy, and now working a templer) on a second account, the buffs from clerics allows me to take on up to 3 yellow 3 up mobs and kill them usually unless a named is involved where with the other classes, 2 3 up yellow mobs would be a stretch sometimes. Templer is lvl 67 or 68 now. If I dont run shard instances, will probalby get her up closer to 72 in POA and then start RoK before raid tonight.This is pre ROK content while mentoring btw and the buffs are only app 1 since I can level them so fast that getting non dropped upgrades is a waste pre T-8 and i just got 8 pts in SA with lvl 50 crafted gear on the templer and maybe a low 60's treasured helm.My point being that the secondary side of cleric and shaman with buffs and debuffs should not be underestimated and for balance, the dps of a druid should be much higher.A: Generally speaking, Priest classes are not supposed to be high on the pure damage scale. Their “DPS” is supposed to really come through healing. Druid healing is more inefficient though so we are looking at ways to increase efficiency of heal over time spells. Of course, that is something that we will talk about later in the year.~~~~~~~~~~Q: I know this a long shot, but is there anyway to roll back Devastation fist back to what it was before TSO came out. This CA was a perfect "finish him" move. Kinda like Bruce Lee's one inch punch, only moreso with a full swing and boom. This CA is no longer Devastating or Desolating.A: This was a percentage based skill which was problematic as npc healthy scaled up exponentially. The current values are currently inline with the higher damage fighter combat arts, and we don’t anticipate making any significant changes to it at this point.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Coercer pets - there were rumors in the air the the pets will be made less meaningful for the class. What can we expect to be changed?A: Heh. Players should stop reading the National Enquirer for in game information. On a serious note though, unless you see it in the live release notes it is rumor and nothing more than that. Certain npcs might be tuned slightly for charm because of their special abilities but these are done on a zone by zone basis and not as some sort of global damage reduction plan.~~~~~~~~~~~Q: Do you plan to change Templar Achievements Tree to enhance offensive abilities of the class? Any plans for new templar's gear to give bonus to his offense? Or such changes can be discussed after the fighters revamp?A: As Priests are not an offensive archetype, we don’t have any plans to increase their damage overall through skills or achievements.~~~~~~~~~~~Q: More and more scripted encounters are being deployed that involved a specific detrimental effect as a key role in executing the script successfully. Is it possible to add a list of detrimental effects to dynamic data for the raidmember set? Just like for personal detrimental effects, but for each raid member? So we can make custom UI's that show mini flags for detrimentals on each raid member or UI's with specific flags for encounter significant detrimentals. The naga in ToMC is a prime example where identifying who is cursed with mark of the serpent vs the other trivial curse would be significantly beneficial to be able to report this via game ui. Instead your pushing us to hard requirements of 3rd party applications to provide the same data that really should be readily available from the client.A: This is a lot of extra data to add for 24 people and could impact performance on raids quite a bit. We are being very careful about doing anything that would hurt performance, so at the moment we have no plans to add this information. These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Can AFK status be added to the group/raid window metadata?A: This is a good idea and something I think we can add in the future.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will we ever see multiple item drag-and-drop like there is in EQ1?From what I have seen during my playtime I know that, although there is no highlight indicating something in your inventory has been "selected", there is a selection mechanic. I have encountered several times where trying to split several, different stacks of items I end up splitting *again* a previous stack (and that stack could be in another container entirely) instead of the new stack I am trying to work with, as if the previous stack is still selected.In EQ1, you could hold shift or ctrl down while clicking items in your containers and (with shift) it would highlight all items between the first and last items clicked or (with ctrl) highlight/deselect each individual item clicked, the same way this mechanic works in Windows. When this got implimented in EQ1 I LOVED it. It'd save my wrist that much more movement.I'm finding now, in my older age, my wrist and elbow are beginning to suffer a lot more from all the individual clicking and dragging.A: This would be a nice feature to have, but would also be a pretty significant change on the client side. We have no plans to do something like this in the near future but will keep it in mind.~~~~~~~~~~Q: One of the things i'd love to see are the information listed in the maintained spell effects window and detrimental spell effects windows be open to dynamic data. Are there any plans on opening up this type of data to the interface modding community?A: No plans at this time due to potential performance issues.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Is there any chance that we could have an increase in amount of quests we can have in our journal? Almost always it's a struggle to keep some journal entries open for new quests or deciding which quests i can delete and save for another time.A: We already increased the journal size once for the same reason. This is one of those situations where no matter how big we make it, players would most likely use the entire space. Because of performance reasons, we don’t have any plans to increase the size at this time.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Please give us more hotbars! Will we ever get them? It's impossible for a hardcore raider to fit it all in 10 hotbars, for me anyways. I asked this question last month but it wasn't answered to some chagrin.A: We don’t have plans to increase the number of hotbars. If there is a valid reason for the majority of players to have anywhere near 120 hotkeys, we have other issues to consider. ~~~~~~~~~~Q: Will there be more functionality in the guild window?For instance, it already states number of accounts , so how about organising it by account, rather than toons. Makes promotions easier, booting easier, seeing when people (the account) were last on, seeing what toons online people have that we may be able to put a group together with, etc.A: If we see that a large interest develops for making changes to the guild window, we could certainly look into it. ~~~~~~~~~~Q: Are there any plans to add an in-game guild calendar for guild usage? It would be a nice addition that other competitors have already taken up.A: This is something we’ve been talking about for a long time and think it would be a nice addition to the game. We don’t have any plans to implement it in the near future but something we would consider.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Are there any plans to add a auto attack casting bar to the default UI, or maybe just make it so that casting CA's don't stop auto attacks, so melee don't have to worry about timing, alot like casters?A: We currently don’t have any plans to add something like that to our UI. I understand that there are some custom UI that will display when an auto attack is incoming, though. ~~~~~~~~~~Q: Would it be possible to get an in game list of nameds/discos/etc we have already rewarded aaxp for?A: We will certainly consider making this information available in the future.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Can soemthing be set in the guild hall interface to allow Guild status to be automatically donated to the guild hall once the guild has reached max level? This would allow guilds that are level 80 to have the status used and have it not go poof. A: There are two different types of status. There is status that your guild earns to level. This is similar to adventure XP and tradeskill XP, but for your guild. Then there is personal status that characters earn. This personal status is what is used to purchase items, pay house upkeep etc. There are no plans to change this system so that guild XP (status) can be used to pay upkeep. Perhaps a better fix is to rename guild status to guild XP so there is less confusion about these two point systems.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Is the journal ever going to stop jumping to a random unfinished quest when you complete one?It used to drop to a grey quest (for me it was the grey Nek Forest HQ) but now it always goes to the Everfrost TSO 'complete something in each of the shard zones' quest. It never ever goes to another quest in the same zone where I am which would be the handier thing for it to do since I am often doing more than one series in the same zone.A: Yes, this is something we can look at fixing.~~~~~~~~~~Q: I'm a Fury that has a heal spec and a DPS spec. When I swap specs, I swap out all my equipment except my Mythical via macros. I also like to swap my appearance gear from plate armor when dps'ing to leather gear when healing. Currently the macro tool only allows X (i think 13) number of "commands". So my question is this.....Can we please get the number of commands used within a macro increased high enough to equip both armor and appearance slots at one time?? P.S. Please don't tell me to make 2 macros!A: We will take this suggestion into consideration.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Are there any roleplayers on the Dev team? The team's focus seems to be shifting from lore and immersion toward a greater emphasis on mechanics and numbers. There is a perception among the playerbase that certain things -- certain classes, certain spells or items, certain tactics -- are required to complete some of the game's content, and the team seems to be reinforcing that perception, rather than reiterating the game's original design intent, where any fighter can tank and any priest can heal. Do you think that maybe a shift away from mechanics and numbers and back toward immersion on the part of the Dev team would alleviate some of that negative pressure?A: There’s a fine balance between roleplay and the numbers/mechanics, though. If we don’t satisfy the numbers side, then there isn’t much in the game to roleplay around. We’re certainly trying to move away from “only x class can accomplish y task”, and we’ll continue to walk that line very carefully. Falling down on either side of it is bad for all of us, number crunchers and RPers alike (and those who are both!)We just announced a new feature coming out in GU52, user-creatable books. This new feature should provide many new avenues for roleplay. ~~~~~~~~~~Q: Why the three Russian servers are not listed among the official servers on <a title="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/servers/index.vm" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/servers/index.vm">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...ervers/index.vm</a> ? Are they considered counterfeit copies? <img src="file:///C|/Documents and Settings/crenzetti/Application Data/Macromedia/Dreamweaver 8/OfficeImageTemp/clip_image002_0001.gif" border="0" width="15" height="15" />A: The Russian servers are part of a business agreement that SOE has with Akella, and have a different subscription plan, not through SOE, so they’re listed differently. It’s also why you can’t use a normal SOE sub to log into the Russian servers, and vice versa. But we certainly appreciate your participation in our community boards!~~~~~~~~~~Q: it was mentioned a long time back that freeport and qeynos would be made into one large zone is this something you are still considering?A: It’s still something we want to do in the future, yes. We’ve done a few tests and it looks feasible on the art side, but there are a lot more pressing things we’re working on currently so there’s no timeframe for this project yet.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Is Ward of elements supposed to be tuned to guilds who are not currently clearing mobs like venril and levi and vp? if so.Will the difficulty of Ward of elements be reajusted to fit its target audiance?A: While we continue to monitor the success or failure of those doing this raid, we don’t currently have any plans to drastically adjust the balance within the zone.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Related to a question answered in February -Could you add more variety to the color palates of the character creation? Though more hair, etc., options are nice, I'd rather have the ability to perhaps play a punk human with purple hair or have a black High Elf. Right now, Arasai seem to have the best hair palate, if you want a template example.A: At this point, we have no plan to change the character customization color choices.~~~~~~~~~~Q: Is it possible to change the NPC that gives out flags and sends you away to show where the current flag is placed? Its easy to miss the message that pops when its placed.Somthing like:- The Current flag is placed in Commonlands ! Would you like to travel there ?A: Yes, we are considering different methods to communicate the current location of the flag to the guild.

Deson

05-04-2009, 11:34 PM

I like the volume answered. Thanks for the improvement.

Powers

05-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Thanks for answering my question on immersion versus mechanics.In my defense, the question was asked before the announcement of the user-created books!My main concern, though, was perhaps unclear in my original question. Encounters created in the latest expansions seem to be geared around having a specific strategy in mind, and devs seem to be spending an increasing amount of time on tweaking gear and spells/combat arts in ways that seem minor to me, but apparently have a large effect to the players on the high end of the game.This is all part and parcel of a steeper ability curve in the higher levels -- the difference between a level 80 and a level 70 character seems to be much much greater than the difference between a level 50 and a level 40 character. Is this intentional? And why? I can understand perhaps wanting to provide more tangible progression as the higher tiers intentionally take longer to get through.But the problem with it is that it causes what should be small changes (the presence or absence of a single statistic on one piece of gear, for example) to be magnified greatly in their effect. Small changes now have large importance, which means greater nuance and less margin for error, which requires much more development time. It also produces much greater dissatisfaction from the player base when a small error is made.This, to me, seems counterproductive to a healthy player base, and contrary to the game's original design intent. As more and more resources are devoted to tweaking individual items this way and that -- like adjusting the position of a painting on a wall ("A little to the left... no, down a bit... tilt it to the right...") -- less resources are available for creation of new content.My position is that the devs should think about spending less time tweaking and making miniscule adjustments, and more time developing the rich, immersive world of Norrath via quests, lore, dialog, and the like. It might cause some complaints in the short-term, but long-term it would discourage a focus on numbers and encourage a more mature, collegial and immersive environment.Of course, maybe I'm asking too much from a team that thought leveling up to 70 was too slow. =)Powers &8^]

Freliant

05-05-2009, 11:31 AM

I really like the list of questions and answers. Very acceptable, even if some of the answers were not what I wanted to hear.Feedback is good!

Froed20

05-05-2009, 12:11 PM

I love these threads, they're very informative <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />One thing I'd like to say in regards to the AA thing. I noticed that the devs seem to think that AA moves along smoothly... it doesn't. Because the xp curve has gone up so drastically, it's hard to keep up on the AA side of things even if you try to do every quest that comes your way and try to kick the posterior of every name you come across... it's because adventure AA moves so much faster and you often grey things out before you can get it all done. Personally, I think it would be a good idea to be able to switch at will between AA and XP experience, and to be able to convert ALL experience (such as quest experience you'd normally get for xp) into AA while in that mode. If we had that early on, we could even out the gameplay a bit more and control the flow of experience a bit better. Of course, I don't know how feasible that is, but it'd be nice to see.

Eriol

05-05-2009, 01:31 PM

I bolded a line I object to in the answer, because it simply hasn't happened.<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: Could you look at the difficulty of the 68ish-80+ solo mobs? As a healer when I have to solo I go splat if I accidently get more than 1 or they stun me for 20 seconds (exaggeration-but it feels like a really long time). I'm not talking about the group mobs. Group play is a lot of fun just the solo mobs can beat a lone healer into the ground with stuns and stifles. Or give us better tools to deal with stuns and stifles. I only have access to one ability that breaks stuns and stifles (thru aa) and it is on a 5 min timer and hardly ever works. Please help the lone healer <img src="file:///C|/Documents and Settings/crenzetti/Application Data/Macromedia/Dreamweaver 8/OfficeImageTemp/clip_image002.gif" width="15" height="15" />.A: Some classes naturally have more difficulty with multiple solo mobs than others. However, everyone can currently solo pretty effectively if they are careful. There are no plans though to increase any class handling multiple solo mobs at once. If there is a particular mob that is solo and has long stuns then I would suggest submitting feedback on that so we can take a look at the individual abilitiy rather than adjusting classes to solo better.~~~~~~~~~~</blockquote>I have a problem with this answer for a simple reason: it hasn't happened. I've bugged/feedbacked quite a few instances where my Templar has had SEVERE issues with monsters where for my other classes I play (necro, paladin, and coercer) have had ZERO problems. And I've pointed out specifically WHY the mobs are problems, and what to do about them, but they remain unchanged. So feedbacking them seems useless.There were two cases (both in RoK) that are particularly bad: The bugs in Kunzar Jungle that summon their own swarm pets (near Dalnir's Wheel), and the Wyverns in SkyFire Mountains in Kylong Plains. The swarm pet bugs are terrible because for casting classes, getting hit is as good as a stifle against you. Every time you're hit, you've got a chance to be interrupted, which means for a Templar, you're basically dead, as you rely on both the DPS from your spells, AND being able to heal yourself mid-battle. Neither is possible against ANY mobs with swarm pets, because it instantly turns a 1vs1 (where the interrupts are managable) into 1vs4 or 5, where you CAN'T CAST. If swarm pets did this to mobs (was basically a near-100% stifle) then I wouldn't complain about their uselessness on my necro, but they're only a stifle to PLAYERS with non-instant cast-time abilities (hence why fighters are OK against them). For casters that NEED to take the hits, it's a death sentence (I'd imagine sorcs have similar issues, but pet classes are fine since the pet takes the interrupting hits).And then you have the mob which casts an ACTUAL stifle on you: the Wyverns in Skyfire. It's basically a "I resist the stifle, or I'm dead" situation. It's that simple. The stifle is nearly 20 seconds long (it might even be longer) which even if you pre-reactive yourself as a Templar, you're still dead because those mobs hit so hard. They're classed as solo mobs, but due to the area, they are by definition higher level than you (81-82), so you "feel" it when they hit you. A Templar while stifled has neither the melee DPS to kill it in that time, or the control abilities to reduce the mob's DPS, or the ability to heal themselves ENOUGH to kill them.So those are specific and OBVIOUS issues with solo mobs that I HAVE submitted before (last year no less), but never heard a whisper of changes on. So forgive me for being very jaded about the willingness to look at mobs that completely destroy healers, but few others have problems with.

Deson

05-05-2009, 01:37 PM

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bolded a line I object to in the answer, because it simply hasn't happened.<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: Could you look at the difficulty of the 68ish-80+ solo mobs? As a healer when I have to solo I go splat if I accidently get more than 1 or they stun me for 20 seconds (exaggeration-but it feels like a really long time). I'm not talking about the group mobs. Group play is a lot of fun just the solo mobs can beat a lone healer into the ground with stuns and stifles. Or give us better tools to deal with stuns and stifles. I only have access to one ability that breaks stuns and stifles (thru aa) and it is on a 5 min timer and hardly ever works. Please help the lone healer <img src="file:///C|/Documents and Settings/crenzetti/Application Data/Macromedia/Dreamweaver 8/OfficeImageTemp/clip_image002.gif" width="15" height="15" />.A: Some classes naturally have more difficulty with multiple solo mobs than others. However, everyone can currently solo pretty effectively if they are careful. There are no plans though to increase any class handling multiple solo mobs at once. If there is a particular mob that is solo and has long stuns then I would suggest submitting feedback on that so we can take a look at the individual abilitiy rather than adjusting classes to solo better.~~~~~~~~~~</blockquote>I have a problem with this answer for a simple reason: it hasn't happened. I've bugged/feedbacked quite a few instances where my Templar has had SEVERE issues with monsters where for my other classes I play (necro, paladin, and coercer) have had ZERO problems. And I've pointed out specifically WHY the mobs are problems, and what to do about them, but they remain unchanged. So feedbacking them seems useless.There were two cases (both in RoK) that are particularly bad: The bugs in Kunzar Jungle that summon their own swarm pets (near Dalnir's Wheel), and the Wyverns in SkyFire Mountains in Kylong Plains. The swarm pet bugs are terrible because for casting classes, getting hit is as good as a stifle against you. Every time you're hit, you've got a chance to be interrupted, which means for a Templar, you're basically dead, as you rely on both the DPS from your spells, AND being able to heal yourself mid-battle. Neither is possible against ANY mobs with swarm pets, because it instantly turns a 1vs1 (where the interrupts are managable) into 1vs4 or 5, where you CAN'T CAST. If swarm pets did this to mobs (was basically a near-100% stifle) then I wouldn't complain about their uselessness on my necro, but they're only a stifle to PLAYERS with non-instant cast-time abilities (hence why fighters are OK against them). For casters that NEED to take the hits, it's a death sentence (I'd imagine sorcs have similar issues, but pet classes are fine since the pet takes the interrupting hits).And then you have the mob which casts an ACTUAL stifle on you: the Wyverns in Skyfire. It's basically a "I resist the stifle, or I'm dead" situation. It's that simple. The stifle is nearly 20 seconds long (it might even be longer) which even if you pre-reactive yourself as a Templar, you're still dead because those mobs hit so hard. They're classed as solo mobs, but due to the area, they are by definition higher level than you (81-82), so you "feel" it when they hit you. A Templar while stifled has neither the melee DPS to kill it in that time, or the control abilities to reduce the mob's DPS, or the ability to heal themselves ENOUGH to kill them.So those are specific and OBVIOUS issues with solo mobs that I HAVE submitted before (last year no less), but never heard a whisper of changes on. So forgive me for being very jaded about the willingness to look at mobs that completely destroy healers, but few others have problems with.</blockquote>This.I hated RoK on my defiler because of these exact issues and since 70+ is solo or bust to advance, it's pretty much impossible to avoid. That said, I'm not as jaded since the spiders and such recently were changed but I'd rather it not take the 2+ years that took and that time frame is already coming up fast.

Haciv

05-05-2009, 01:57 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: What I would like to know is whether they are EVER going to look at certain spell lines and AA stuff. For instance, what good is the heresy/blasphemy line outside PvP? Or that Maladroit line in Inquisitor AA? Make that puppy read "Reduces all of target encounter's AoEs by 25%". What good is attribute and skill reduction debuff?</blockquote>Was this actually answered or no? It looks like it was merged with some fluff question about armor appearance.Heresy and Maladroit need some major loving and I'm curious what the Devs had to say.

Dasein

05-05-2009, 02:38 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: Will there be more gear with less classes on them in the future? Like how bards have gear made for them, and only useable by them. Get more gear that instead of 'all ___' would be 'sorcerers and summoners' or 'predators and rogues' for example? A few classes have an easier time gearing up, and cheaper as well. A bard has an easy time gearing up, usually on gear the only other classes able to use them are crusaders for some reason. Meanwhile most mage and scout dps items are very open, meaning they ma have to compete with atleast 5 other classes, if not more, resulting in these classes having a much harder time to gear up.A: Bards and Crusaders have more class-limited armor designed for them because their design is much more dependant on a broad set of stats than other classes. In order to be as effective as a non-hybrid, they require equal or nearly equal amounts of multiple stats which, in the hands of a non-hybrid, could be unbalancing. While it is true that there is less competition for these items, they are also less abundant and drop at a much lower rate.</blockquote>While this may be acceptable for bards, crusaders are in direct competition with warriors for group and raid spots. That these items drop less often and are no-trade only makes this imbalance worse. Rather, gear of this sort should be reserved for shard or pattern armor, crafted items, or, at the very least, be treated as smart loot so crusaders have an improved shot of the items they need dropping.

Yimway

05-05-2009, 02:51 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. We don't level up in both quickly, and there isn't enough provided content for veterans to complete the process with reasonable time spent. Further more, the notion that you expect me to grind these same aweful soloquests to progress my alts vs providing me an option in earning xp in the playstyle I enjoy spending my time in, is a clear message to me that EQ2 simply is no longer the right game for me. I clearly have a different perspective that may be better served by an alternate title, as I don't judge the designers viewpoint on this issue to be either accurate or insightful.

Kiara

05-05-2009, 02:54 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: What I would like to know is whether they are EVER going to look at certain spell lines and AA stuff. For instance, what good is the heresy/blasphemy line outside PvP? Or that Maladroit line in Inquisitor AA? Make that puppy read "Reduces all of target encounter's AoEs by 25%". What good is attribute and skill reduction debuff?</blockquote>Was this actually answered or no? It looks like it was merged with some fluff question about armor appearance.Heresy and Maladroit need some major loving and I'm curious what the Devs had to say.</blockquote>That was poor formatting on my part. My apologies. My eyes sort of crossed when I was sifting through.That question doesn't have an answer just yet. There just isn't enough information to give a satisfactory answer other than "We can't talk about it at this time."

Oakum

05-05-2009, 04:31 PM

Druid dps question. A: Generally speaking, Priest classes are not supposed to be high on the pure damage scale. Their “DPS” is supposed to really come through healing. Druid healing is more inefficient though so we are looking at ways to increase efficiency of heal over time spells. Of course, that is something that we will talk about later in the year.In some ways this answer does not make sense to me so some clarification.Druids are and always have been "dps" hybrids. Where as clerics and shaman have a bunch of temporary buffs, debuffs, ect to cast when they dont need to heal. Druids have damage spells. No one said a druid should dps like an assassin, ranger, warlock, or wizard and we all understand that we cant heal and dp much dps at the same time should the tank/group need healing.All priests have something they can do besides healing if they are not needed to heal. All healing was pretty much equal although the clerics sacrifice may unbalance it with the TSO aa's.Now i can see the cleric and shaman with their have much better armor, buff, and debuff or cast damage procs on group members enhancing dps that way but the only way a druid has, as said before, to balance that and the group mt buffs that a cleric has is actual damage spells/melee abilities. So if cleric and shaman heal equally to druids but buff the tank/group and debuff mobs ten times better then druids. (and have their specialty heals land before druids) should druids not do 10 times the damage of clerics and shaman IF specced for it and dpsing, Healing was pretty balanced before unless TSO aa's messed it up.As far as heals being inefficient, power wise, regens have always been more efficient then wards and reactives. That was part of the trade off for landing last.Druids (at least me anyway) do not want to be clerics and shaman. Let them keep their stuff as theirs. We should do more dps then them in the equivilant spec/gear though easily just like they will always outbuff/debuff us easily.

Deson

05-05-2009, 04:45 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. We don't level up in both quickly, and there isn't enough provided content for veterans to complete the process with reasonable time spent. Further more, the notion that you expect me to grind these same aweful soloquests to progress my alts vs providing me an option in earning xp in the playstyle I enjoy spending my time in, is a clear message to me that EQ2 simply is no longer the right game for me. I clearly have a different perspective that may be better served by an alternate title, as I don't judge the designers viewpoint on this issue to be either accurate or insightful.</blockquote>And this is why there are so many questions on the issue and every answer seems to have missed the mark. With so many threads and questions related to the AP gain rate, one has to wonder why all the answers given seem to not actually address the point of concern. I posted the same question worded more directly in this months thread but it'd be nice to get an answer before then. There's rumor of content in GU 52 adressing AP gain but if that won't touch this issue then changes should be considered or an official thread should be opened on the issue. Mass slaughtering a zone used to be rewarding and there's no reason to not make the killing about more than the loot; it was such in the past and those are also my favorite memories of the game. I'm not knocking the quests but they get old fast on alts and when they feel forced they are robbed of their fun.

Sprin

05-05-2009, 06:53 PM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. We don't level up in both quickly, and there isn't enough provided content for veterans to complete the process with reasonable time spent. Further more, the notion that you expect me to grind these same aweful soloquests to progress my alts vs providing me an option in earning xp in the playstyle I enjoy spending my time in, is a clear message to me that EQ2 simply is no longer the right game for me. I clearly have a different perspective that may be better served by an alternate title, as I don't judge the designers viewpoint on this issue to be either accurate or insightful.</blockquote>And this is why there are so many questions on the issue and every answer seems to have missed the mark. With so many threads and questions related to the AP gain rate, one has to wonder why all the answers given seem to not actually address the point of concern. I posted the same question worded more directly in this months thread but it'd be nice to get an answer before then. There's rumor of content in GU 52 adressing AP gain but if that won't touch this issue then changes should be considered or an official thread should be opened on the issue. Mass slaughtering a zone used to be rewarding and there's no reason to not make the killing about more than the loot; it was such in the past and those are also my favorite memories of the game. I'm not knocking the quests but they get old fast on alts and when they feel forced they are robbed of their fun.</blockquote>Kinda confused how people can get upset / mad / disapointed / frustrated / etc etc... over having to do quests to get the full content of the game called... you guessed it.. EVER QUEST.. Not just Quest... but EVER quest, indicating a never ending supply of quests... thats the name of the game.. Not Ever GRIND, or Ever Slaughter... or Ever Powerlevel... Ever QUEST>.. So do quests or go find a different game... asking to change the mechanics of a game with that in the title seems kinda lame TBH...How can you expect / think you deserve to get the full amount of rewards from doing nothing to earn them... Just because you've done them before? That makes them easier... so you see rewards faster.. If you want SOE to just give you a lvl 80 Toon... just ask... they might.. :-/

Yimway

05-05-2009, 07:00 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kinda confused how people can get upset / mad / disapointed / frustrated / etc etc... over having to do quests to get the full content of the game called... you guessed it.. EVER QUEST.. Not just Quest... but EVER quest, indicating a never ending supply of quests... thats the name of the game.. Not Ever GRIND, or Ever Slaughter... or Ever Powerlevel... Ever QUEST>..</blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.So, as kindly as I can say it, shove the quest in Everquest arguement, k, thx.

Dasein

05-05-2009, 07:22 PM

Yimway

05-05-2009, 09:22 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.</blockquote>And it is entirely possible to progress through level 70-80 withut doing much, if any, solo questing. Granted, solo questing is the easiest way to level up, but it's not as though heroic encounters stop giving XP.</blockquote>Dasein,Again you throw this weak arguement in. Yet another thread, yet another time I'll give the same response.Eq2 launch, you can progress to end game without picking up a soloquest with exception to class quests.DoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see peacock series).KoS launch, you can progress to end game in a resonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see claymore, see infultrating sanctum, see other misc heroic lines)EoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see MMC, see CMM, see SoD series, see heritages, see sufficient named kills).RoK launch, you can NOT progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level AND aa without soloquesting.TSO launch, you can not progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing aa without soloquesting.Notice a distinct shift in there somewhere?Since apparently heroic quest arcs are too much trouble, the orriginal question was centered around a mechanic change to provide reasonable aa rewards from something OTHER than SoloQuest. That could be by more repeatable heroic quests, upping the xp value of missions, adding repeatable name kill, an xp slider, or literally a host of other options.The point of the question is ONE playstyle is over-rewarded, another playstyle is under rewarded. Many people like me who play many different alts do NOT want to re-advance (read suffer) the same borring solo quests over and over again to progress our characters. We'd like to be able to run PoF, WoE, and other challenging content with a group and earn JUST 50% of the aa xp that would be earned with the same time playing SoloQuest. We feel doing content that requires active cognitive focus to complete should reward us with at least 50% of xp reward as mind numbing, zero focus, zero concentration, zero risk solo content.Fact is, solo mobs die to auto attack, I shouldn't need to suffer that borring content to advance, it SHOULD be possible to advance either way in a reasonable amount of time.And, since I know from the past 4 threads on this, your reply will be you CAN get to 80/200 from kill xp, I challenge you again to actually prove it. Take a character to 80/200 on kill xp before the next expansion releases.

Dasein

05-05-2009, 11:16 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.</blockquote>And it is entirely possible to progress through level 70-80 withut doing much, if any, solo questing. Granted, solo questing is the easiest way to level up, but it's not as though heroic encounters stop giving XP.</blockquote>Dasein,Again you throw this weak arguement in. Yet another thread, yet another time I'll give the same response.Eq2 launch, you can progress to end game without picking up a soloquest with exception to class quests.DoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see peacock series).KoS launch, you can progress to end game in a resonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see claymore, see infultrating sanctum, see other misc heroic lines)EoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see MMC, see CMM, see SoD series, see heritages, see sufficient named kills).RoK launch, you can NOT progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level AND aa without soloquesting.TSO launch, you can not progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing aa without soloquesting.Notice a distinct shift in there somewhere?Since apparently heroic quest arcs are too much trouble, the orriginal question was centered around a mechanic change to provide reasonable aa rewards from something OTHER than SoloQuest. That could be by more repeatable heroic quests, upping the xp value of missions, adding repeatable name kill, an xp slider, or literally a host of other options.The point of the question is ONE playstyle is over-rewarded, another playstyle is under rewarded. Many people like me who play many different alts do NOT want to re-advance (read suffer) the same borring solo quests over and over again to progress our characters. We'd like to be able to run PoF, WoE, and other challenging content with a group and earn JUST 50% of the aa xp that would be earned with the same time playing SoloQuest. We feel doing content that requires active cognitive focus to complete should reward us with at least 50% of xp reward as mind numbing, zero focus, zero concentration, zero risk solo content.Fact is, solo mobs die to auto attack, I shouldn't need to suffer that borring content to advance, it SHOULD be possible to advance either way in a reasonable amount of time.And, since I know from the past 4 threads on this, your reply will be you CAN get to 80/200 from kill xp, I challenge you again to actually prove it. Take a character to 80/200 on kill xp before the next expansion releases.</blockquote>It seems you are complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement - RoK and even more so, TSO featured considerable heroic content, but RoK also featured lots of solo content, too.Also, in every expansion, there have been solo quest lines that most people did as part of advancement - DoF, KoS and EoF all had solo quest lines that were commonly done as part of advancement. DoF had the whole Courts faction system that was a big part of the content, KoS had various quest lines taking you around the islands, and EoF had all sorts of solo quests in every zone. RoK continues this pattern, but since RoK was such a large expansion - easily the size of DoF and KoS combined - it featured lots more solo and heroic content. It's not that there is no content heroic content in RoK, or that there weren't heroic advancement paths, but that there was so much solo content, that it overshadowed the heroic content. Still, there are some big heroic quest lines in CoM, Seb and Chardok, along with some heroic quests for each instance, and of course there are the epic weapon quests.

therodge

05-05-2009, 11:41 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.</blockquote>And it is entirely possible to progress through level 70-80 withut doing much, if any, solo questing. Granted, solo questing is the easiest way to level up, but it's not as though heroic encounters stop giving XP.</blockquote>Dasein,Again you throw this weak arguement in. Yet another thread, yet another time I'll give the same response.Eq2 launch, you can progress to end game without picking up a soloquest with exception to class quests.DoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see peacock series).KoS launch, you can progress to end game in a resonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see claymore, see infultrating sanctum, see other misc heroic lines)EoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see MMC, see CMM, see SoD series, see heritages, see sufficient named kills).RoK launch, you can NOT progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level AND aa without soloquesting.TSO launch, you can not progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing aa without soloquesting.Notice a distinct shift in there somewhere?Since apparently heroic quest arcs are too much trouble, the orriginal question was centered around a mechanic change to provide reasonable aa rewards from something OTHER than SoloQuest. That could be by more repeatable heroic quests, upping the xp value of missions, adding repeatable name kill, an xp slider, or literally a host of other options.The point of the question is ONE playstyle is over-rewarded, another playstyle is under rewarded. Many people like me who play many different alts do NOT want to re-advance (read suffer) the same borring solo quests over and over again to progress our characters. We'd like to be able to run PoF, WoE, and other challenging content with a group and earn JUST 50% of the aa xp that would be earned with the same time playing SoloQuest. We feel doing content that requires active cognitive focus to complete should reward us with at least 50% of xp reward as mind numbing, zero focus, zero concentration, zero risk solo content.Fact is, solo mobs die to auto attack, I shouldn't need to suffer that borring content to advance, it SHOULD be possible to advance either way in a reasonable amount of time.And, since I know from the past 4 threads on this, your reply will be you CAN get to 80/200 from kill xp, I challenge you again to actually prove it. Take a character to 80/200 on kill xp before the next expansion releases.</blockquote>It seems you are complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement - RoK and even more so, TSO featured considerable heroic content, but RoK also featured lots of solo content, too.Also, in every expansion, there have been solo quest lines that most people did as part of advancement - DoF, KoS and EoF all had solo quest lines that were commonly done as part of advancement. DoF had the whole Courts faction system that was a big part of the content, KoS had various quest lines taking you around the islands, and EoF had all sorts of solo quests in every zone. RoK continues this pattern, but since RoK was such a large expansion - easily the size of DoF and KoS combined - it featured lots more solo and heroic content. It's not that there is no content heroic content in RoK, or that there weren't heroic advancement paths, but that there was so much solo content, that it overshadowed the heroic content. Still, there are some big heroic quest lines in CoM, Seb and Chardok, along with some heroic quests for each instance, and of course there are the epic weapon quests.</blockquote>kos maxxed aa never did a quest 3 monthseof maxxed aa 13 quests 2 monthsrok maxed aa 143 quests 8 monthsTSO 172 aa 8 months 45 quests

Deson

05-05-2009, 11:56 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.</blockquote>And it is entirely possible to progress through level 70-80 withut doing much, if any, solo questing. Granted, solo questing is the easiest way to level up, but it's not as though heroic encounters stop giving XP.</blockquote>Dasein,Again you throw this weak arguement in. Yet another thread, yet another time I'll give the same response.Eq2 launch, you can progress to end game without picking up a soloquest with exception to class quests.DoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see peacock series).KoS launch, you can progress to end game in a resonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see claymore, see infultrating sanctum, see other misc heroic lines)EoF launch, you can progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level/aa without a single solo quest (see MMC, see CMM, see SoD series, see heritages, see sufficient named kills).RoK launch, you can NOT progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing level AND aa without soloquesting.TSO launch, you can not progress to end game in a reasonable time maxing aa without soloquesting.Notice a distinct shift in there somewhere?Since apparently heroic quest arcs are too much trouble, the orriginal question was centered around a mechanic change to provide reasonable aa rewards from something OTHER than SoloQuest. That could be by more repeatable heroic quests, upping the xp value of missions, adding repeatable name kill, an xp slider, or literally a host of other options.The point of the question is ONE playstyle is over-rewarded, another playstyle is under rewarded. Many people like me who play many different alts do NOT want to re-advance (read suffer) the same borring solo quests over and over again to progress our characters. We'd like to be able to run PoF, WoE, and other challenging content with a group and earn JUST 50% of the aa xp that would be earned with the same time playing SoloQuest. We feel doing content that requires active cognitive focus to complete should reward us with at least 50% of xp reward as mind numbing, zero focus, zero concentration, zero risk solo content.Fact is, solo mobs die to auto attack, I shouldn't need to suffer that borring content to advance, it SHOULD be possible to advance either way in a reasonable amount of time.And, since I know from the past 4 threads on this, your reply will be you CAN get to 80/200 from kill xp, I challenge you again to actually prove it. Take a character to 80/200 on kill xp before the next expansion releases.</blockquote> This and the previous post covers the asinine everQUEST arguement but additional points:The original Everquest was really more EverRAID with few quests of note and any meaningful ones requiring at bare minimum a competent geared group.Just because they want to put the QUEST in Everquest doesn't mean they have to force the solo stuff and just because I and others are tired of solo questing doesn't mean we are tired of questing. Go back through old world content and look at all the clicky quests, in zone search(and destroy) quests and just the sheer amount of content incidental to mass slaughter. It's not the quests that are hated, it's the forced soloquesting that didn't happen until RoK and wasn't fixed in TSO. From launch to RoK I never once felt forced to quest and mass slaughtered/ incidental quested my main and alt to level and near AP cap. During KoS just running PoA with a competent group a few times could cap you in levels and every trip of an hour or so at cap could get you an AA without one quest.The game design was switched with an eye to rapid "grindless" leveling but the reality is the grind was just shifted over to AP and is actually more frustrating now because the only way to reasonably advance in AP is by restricting yourself and effectively limiting your gameplay. If everQUEST 2 had started off as a soloquest grind then fine, I'd accept that and leave but the problem is it didn't and a legit gamestyle that's actually more in keeping with the franchise design history has been effectively abandoned. If you want to make the everQUEST argument though, what kind of kooky design is it for a massively MULTIPLAYER game to force you to solo to get anything done?Stay away from semantics arguments, they only serve to prove how ridiculous and shallow your point is. If there is a legit reason why grouping from 1-70(2004-2007) was acceptable to level grind with then but isn't now, make the point but please retire the tired everQUEST argument.

feldon30

05-06-2009, 08:36 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>And it is entirely possible to progress through level 70-80 withut doing much, if any, solo questing. Granted, solo questing is the easiest way to level up, but it's not as though heroic encounters stop giving XP.</blockquote>Sorry, it's not. You can wish and dream and fantasize all you want, but the numbers don't work.Kill a ^^^ yellow con heroic mob anywhere from level 55 to 69 and you get anywhere from .7~1.1 % XP. Clearing a challenging dungeon yields 1/3 to 1/2 a level.Kill a ^^^ yellow con heroic mob anywhere from level 70-80 and you get about .02% XP. Clearing a dungeon yields about 3% XP. Meanwhile you get about 7% XP for completing one level 70 quest in Kunark.The fact of the matter is, you leveled at roughly the same speed in level 1-69 in EQ2 by either grouping up and doing challenging dungeons (yellow ^^^ heroic mobs), or by doing solo quests. Kunark basically disables combat XP, as you get so little combat XP for killing each mob that you would have to kill something like 50,000 mobs.To reiterate what I posted in the other thread...I find it very interesting that fully THREE of the questions selected in the last Dev Question thread were related to AA XP gain, and yet all 3 answers are "It's working fine". Clearly if it were working fine, there wouldn't be so many questions about it. Also, the "combat XP is converted to AA XP" cannot possibly be working as intended. Each kill rewards less than .001% AA XP. We would have to kill approximately 10,000 yellow con ^^^ mobs to get one AA point.

Xissu

05-06-2009, 08:46 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: Would it be possible to get an in game list of nameds/discos/etc we have already rewarded aaxp for?A: We will certainly consider making this information available in the future.</blockquote>I would settle for things as simple as:You con a mob, part of the con information tells you that you have already recieved AA for that kill or in other cases if the mob doesn't give AA dispite looking perfectly well named (yay quest mobs). Maybe something like "You will not recieve AA experience for this mob" or what ever.You take a repeatable quest (or any quest for that matter) it states in the rewards weither AA is going to be awarded.Disco's... well personally it seems kinda off to me that you would have access to a list of places you umm haven't discovered? thats a me thing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />.

SaberShadowKat

05-06-2009, 10:42 AM

Thank you for the volume of questions answered, even if some were "no" or "not at this time" or "we'll think about it (i.e. it'll go on a list, but probably won't happen)". The best no answers were the ones that explained why the no was given, like with it effecting performance or other mechanics. Please keep that up if the answer does turn out to be no because it reads more like SoE is actually considering it as opposed to giving it the brush off. Thanks again. This Q&A is very much appreciated.

Yimway

05-06-2009, 11:20 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems you are complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement - RoK and even more so, TSO featured considerable heroic content, but RoK also featured lots of solo content, too.Also, in every expansion, there have been solo quest lines that most people did as part of advancement - DoF, KoS and EoF all had solo quest lines that were commonly done as part of advancement. DoF had the whole Courts faction system that was a big part of the content, KoS had various quest lines taking you around the islands, and EoF had all sorts of solo quests in every zone. RoK continues this pattern, but since RoK was such a large expansion - easily the size of DoF and KoS combined - it featured lots more solo and heroic content. It's not that there is no content heroic content in RoK, or that there weren't heroic advancement paths, but that there was so much solo content, that it overshadowed the heroic content. Still, there are some big heroic quest lines in CoM, Seb and Chardok, along with some heroic quests for each instance, and of course there are the epic weapon quests.</blockquote>Dasein,Not even remotely am I complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement. But thank you for trying to belittle my point by making that accusation. Perhaps you can try even harder to alienate my position?I recognize there are players that only play SoloQuest 2, and for them all this content is very 'shiney' for them.What I'm saying is, those of us that prefer heroic / challenging content are left with no viable path of advancement other than doing Soloquest.Several questions in this past Q&A session about AP xp gain, alternate methods, or other related concerns. The designer polled responded its working as intended and they are monitoring it. I contend he's wearing rose colored glasses. Maybe we're getting the AP, but we're hating every minute of game play doing it so that we can get our toons to where we want them to do the content we enjoy.I think they're looking at progression reports while ignoring the feedback about the quality of gameplay on the forums. Someone needs to shake them up a bit on that lack of vision.

Dasein

05-06-2009, 12:47 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems you are complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement - RoK and even more so, TSO featured considerable heroic content, but RoK also featured lots of solo content, too.Also, in every expansion, there have been solo quest lines that most people did as part of advancement - DoF, KoS and EoF all had solo quest lines that were commonly done as part of advancement. DoF had the whole Courts faction system that was a big part of the content, KoS had various quest lines taking you around the islands, and EoF had all sorts of solo quests in every zone. RoK continues this pattern, but since RoK was such a large expansion - easily the size of DoF and KoS combined - it featured lots more solo and heroic content. It's not that there is no content heroic content in RoK, or that there weren't heroic advancement paths, but that there was so much solo content, that it overshadowed the heroic content. Still, there are some big heroic quest lines in CoM, Seb and Chardok, along with some heroic quests for each instance, and of course there are the epic weapon quests.</blockquote>Dasein,Not even remotely am I complaining that solo quests are now a viable form of advancement. But thank you for trying to belittle my point by making that accusation. Perhaps you can try even harder to alienate my position?I recognize there are players that only play SoloQuest 2, and for them all this content is very 'shiney' for them.What I'm saying is, those of us that prefer heroic / challenging content are left with no viable path of advancement other than doing Soloquest.Several questions in this past Q&A session about AP xp gain, alternate methods, or other related concerns. The designer polled responded its working as intended and they are monitoring it. I contend he's wearing rose colored glasses. Maybe we're getting the AP, but we're hating every minute of game play doing it so that we can get our toons to where we want them to do the content we enjoy.I think they're looking at progression reports while ignoring the feedback about the quality of gameplay on the forums. Someone needs to shake them up a bit on that lack of vision.</blockquote>If you're not bothered by solo content being viable for advancement, then what is the problem? RoK provided a number of heroic quest lines and zones, in addition to the solo content, and TSO is almost entirely heroic content, so what do you want changed?

Yimway

05-06-2009, 01:01 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're not bothered by solo content being viable for advancement, then what is the problem? RoK provided a number of heroic quest lines and zones, in addition to the solo content, and TSO is almost entirely heroic content, so what do you want changed?</blockquote>Seriously, learn 2 read.As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.I'm not complaining that Solo quests are viable advancement, I'm complaining that it is the only means to advancement. I'm complaining that while I did them on my main cause I had to, I'm not going to keep repeating them on my alts like I did in RoK. I'm saying, I've reached my breaking point with this game and Soloquest. I'm saying if a reasonable mechanic can not be in place to get reasonable AP advancement while doing challenging content, then this game is no longer going to hold my interest.I strongly believe if I run my alt thru PoF or WoE, I should be able to get repeatable AP experience equivelant to at least 50% of what I would have got spending the same time doing trivial SoloQuest grinds. Content that requires cognitive focus should provide similar advancement to content that requires no cognitive focus.I'm saying to retain players like myself, some other mechanic than soloquesting needs to be found for advancement.I'm saying, I can complete every soloquest by /waypoint a b c, target mob, roll head on keyboard.I'm saying that type of gameplay has NO INTEREST to me, and while I suffer it once cause I have to, I'm not going to spend the next 6 months waiting on the next expansion doing this with my 8 alts. I'm saying something more interesting must exist or SoE loses players like myself.Primarily what I want changed is the XP conversion to AP. I want completing KC, Chardok, and Seb quest lines and working that content to be a viable path from 70/80aa to 80/140aa. I want repeating missions to be a reasonable path to 80/200, and I believe they should reward at least 50% of the AP xp that spending the same time soloquesting would provide. I want grouping in heroic content 1-70 to provide at least 50% of the AP xp as spending the same time SoloQuesting. I want players to be able to have more control of how each xp type is distributed and/or be similarly rewarded for different playstyles.

Dasein

05-06-2009, 01:38 PM

Deson

05-06-2009, 01:48 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're not bothered by solo content being viable for advancement, then what is the problem? RoK provided a number of heroic quest lines and zones, in addition to the solo content, and TSO is almost entirely heroic content, so what do you want changed?</blockquote>Seriously, learn 2 read.As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.I'm not complaining that Solo quests are viable advancement, I'm complaining that it is the only means to advancement. I'm complaining that while I did them on my main cause I had to, I'm not going to keep repeating them on my alts like I did in RoK. I'm saying, I've reached my breaking point with this game and Soloquest. I'm saying if a reasonable mechanic can not be in place to get reasonable AP advancement while doing challenging content, then this game is no longer going to hold my interest.I strongly believe if I run my alt thru PoF or WoE, I should be able to get repeatable AP experience equivelant to at least 50% of what I would have got spending the same time doing trivial SoloQuest grinds. Content that requires cognitive focus should provide similar advancement to content that requires no cognitive focus.I'm saying to retain players like myself, some other mechanic than soloquesting needs to be found for advancement.I'm saying, I can complete every soloquest by /waypoint a b c, target mob, roll head on keyboard.I'm saying that type of gameplay has NO INTEREST to me, and while I suffer it once cause I have to, I'm not going to spend the next 6 months waiting on the next expansion doing this with my 8 alts. I'm saying something more interesting must exist or SoE loses players like myself.Primarily what I want changed is the XP conversion to AP. I want completing KC, Chardok, and Seb quest lines and working that content to be a viable path from 70/80aa to 80/140aa. I want repeating missions to be a reasonable path to 80/200, and I believe they should reward at least 50% of the AP xp that spending the same time soloquesting would provide. I want grouping in heroic content 1-70 to provide at least 50% of the AP xp as spending the same time SoloQuesting. I want players to be able to have more control of how each xp type is distributed and/or be similarly rewarded for different playstyles.</blockquote>Add regular xp advancement concerns to this and it's the same complaint that's been voiced and recognized since literally the day RoK launched. Before I figured out how bad the problem was, I sat for a week harvesting and doing a solo quest here and there LFG not knowing the game design had shifted to "solo to cap then play the game."Given the franchise history I was rather shocked that for the first time ever, advancement by combat wasn't viable. Add to that many of the quests having all the complexity and depth of the old (now removed) Qeynos starter quests where quite a few are literally finding people not 2 feet from where you got the quest...well, I hated Qeynos for a reason.If you want to do RoK/TSO content, it doesn't start till 75; Karnors is a wipefest and you can't get shards before then. The solo quested loot, xp rate and APxp rate make even trying to adventure for gains an excercise in futility. Sure it can be done but the investment it requires is beyond impractical for almost no gain.<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're not bothered by solo content being viable for advancement, then what is the problem? RoK provided a number of heroic quest lines and zones, in addition to the solo content, and TSO is almost entirely heroic content, so what do you want changed?</blockquote>Seriously, learn 2 read.As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.</blockquote>And there is. There are plenty of heoric quests in RoK, and TSO is about 75% heroic content or harder. The changes you propose would make it trivially easy to get to 80/200, and that would lead to lots of content being wasted.</blockquote>You mean like it is now? It's a waste to try and hit TSO zones pre 75 because they are harder than equivalent content for lesser rewards. How's getting a group for RoK stuff working out? Who's hitting the open dungeons for good old fashioned mass slaughter? How many groups are actually trying to level as a group as opposed to just loot grinding? Content is being wasted now. At least with a shift to the conversion rates alts can reasonably advance without doing the same tedious solo grind.

Yimway

05-06-2009, 01:48 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.</blockquote>And there is. There are plenty of heoric quests in RoK, and TSO is about 75% heroic content or harder. The changes you propose would make it trivially easy to get to 80/200, and that would lead to lots of content being wasted.</blockquote>No, there is not.Start TSO at 80/140 and get to 200aa doing heroic content. Now do it doing solo/grey content. You're going to discover doing it with heroic content is exponentially more time consuming.180-200aa missions are returning ~2% AP xp. Thats ~1000 missions just to get the last 20aa. Start RoK with 70/90 and do only heroic quests to 80. You will not have 140aa, and you will have taken roughly 10x as many hours of playing to get there.Don't make such statements if you haven't done the research on the AP/time comparision of both content types.

Dasein

05-06-2009, 01:59 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.</blockquote>And there is. There are plenty of heoric quests in RoK, and TSO is about 75% heroic content or harder. The changes you propose would make it trivially easy to get to 80/200, and that would lead to lots of content being wasted.</blockquote>No, there is not.Start TSO at 80/140 and get to 200aa doing heroic content. Now do it doing solo/grey content. You're going to discover doing it with heroic content is exponentially more time consuming.180-200aa missions are returning ~2% AP xp. Thats ~1000 missions just to get the last 20aa. Start RoK with 70/90 and do only heroic quests to 80. You will not have 140aa, and you will have taken roughly 10x as many hours of playing to get there.Don't make such statements if you haven't done the research on the AP/time comparision of both content types.</blockquote>And conversly, if you start TSO at 80/140 and just solo how far will you get? Once you exhaust the solo quest lines, that's pretty much it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the optimal means of levelling being a mix of solo and heroic content, while you seem to think there needs to be an exclusively heroic levelling path from to 80/200. To me, your position sounds as unreasonable as those who want raid-level rewards from solo quests.

Deson

05-06-2009, 02:18 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>As clearly stated in several posts I've already made in this thread, and stated by others in this exact thread, and in atleast 6 other threads related to this that you've also contributed in, I want a viable means of advancement to 80/200 that doesn't require SoloQuest.</blockquote>And there is. There are plenty of heoric quests in RoK, and TSO is about 75% heroic content or harder. The changes you propose would make it trivially easy to get to 80/200, and that would lead to lots of content being wasted.</blockquote>No, there is not.Start TSO at 80/140 and get to 200aa doing heroic content. Now do it doing solo/grey content. You're going to discover doing it with heroic content is exponentially more time consuming.180-200aa missions are returning ~2% AP xp. Thats ~1000 missions just to get the last 20aa. Start RoK with 70/90 and do only heroic quests to 80. You will not have 140aa, and you will have taken roughly 10x as many hours of playing to get there.Don't make such statements if you haven't done the research on the AP/time comparision of both content types.</blockquote>And conversly, if you start TSO at 80/140 and just solo how far will you get? Once you exhaust the solo quest lines, that's pretty much it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the optimal means of levelling being a mix of solo and heroic content, while you seem to think there needs to be an exclusively heroic levelling path from to 80/200. To me, your position sounds as unreasonable as those who want raid-level rewards from solo quests.</blockquote>No one said heroic advancement should be the only way to go. If anything posters are asking for exactly what you said-- a mix of content should be viable advancement (bolded so it stands out).Right now it's just not that way and it's compounded by the veteran penalty. The most anyone has asked for is going back to a KoS style balance where adventuring was viable advancementAs for your last line, don't you support the RA?

Yimway

05-06-2009, 02:19 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>And conversly, if you start TSO at 80/140 and just solo how far will you get? Once you exhaust the solo quest lines, that's pretty much it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the optimal means of levelling being a mix of solo and heroic content, while you seem to think there needs to be an exclusively heroic levelling path from to 80/200. To me, your position sounds as unreasonable as those who want raid-level rewards from solo quests.</blockquote>Your of course entittled to your opinion. But I think completing harder content shouldn't yield less advancement experience. I believe the current system is closer to raid-level rewards from solo quests than what I'm suggesting.Very few players can not reach 80/200 by doing TSO soloquests plus going back to grey quests they skipped leveling up, or in zones / expansions that came out after they leveled. And while I've not finished out to 200aa, I'm quite certain there are more than enough quests to do it with, even if half of them will be grey. Will I enjoy the content? No. Will I find challenge in advancing my character? No. Does this make for good game design? No.I know of very few players without enough available grey quests to finish out where TSO soloquest dropped off, and doing those grey soloquests yeilds more AP xp / hr than doing missions. I ask, does that mechanic make sense? Should I get more advancement doing zek quests for an hour vs doing Ferzhul? Why exactly should that be the case?

Deson

05-06-2009, 02:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>And conversly, if you start TSO at 80/140 and just solo how far will you get? Once you exhaust the solo quest lines, that's pretty much it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the optimal means of levelling being a mix of solo and heroic content, while you seem to think there needs to be an exclusively heroic levelling path from to 80/200. To me, your position sounds as unreasonable as those who want raid-level rewards from solo quests.</blockquote>Your of course entittled to your opinion. But I think completing harder content shouldn't yield less advancement experience. I believe the current system is closer to raid-level rewards from solo quests than what I'm suggesting.Very few players can not reach 80/200 by doing TSO soloquests plus going back to grey quests they skipped leveling up, or in zones / expansions that came out after they leveled. And while I've not finished out to 200aa, I'm quite certain there are more than enough quests to do it with, even if half of them will be grey. Will I enjoy the content? No. Will I find challenge in advancing my character? No. Does this make for good game design? No.I know of very few players without enough available grey quests to finish out where TSO soloquest dropped off, and doing those grey soloquests yeilds more AP xp / hr than doing missions. I ask, does that mechanic make sense? Should I get more reward doing zek quests for an hour vs doing Ferzhul? Why exactly should that be the case?</blockquote>And they reason they have all those grey quests to go through is because adventuring used to be viable so you only sought out and did the fun quests if you did any at all. They worst part about the grey quest grind is that it forces you to do all the content on a single character and thus kills some of the fun of taking an alt down a different path. Not you have to grind through every path on a charater just to make decent gains turing some of the most fun content in the game into a chore.

Sprin

05-06-2009, 07:05 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kinda confused how people can get upset / mad / disapointed / frustrated / etc etc... over having to do quests to get the full content of the game called... you guessed it.. EVER QUEST.. Not just Quest... but EVER quest, indicating a never ending supply of quests... thats the name of the game.. Not Ever GRIND, or Ever Slaughter... or Ever Powerlevel... Ever QUEST>..</blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.So, as kindly as I can say it, shove the quest in Everquest arguement, k, thx.</blockquote>LOL so stop arguing that you should have to quest to get the full reward from EverQuest? LOL! By your argument, to get points in a basketball game you should just be able to dribble the ball on the sidelines and score... its what you want to do to enjoy yourself, you should get points and promoted to different positions based on your ability to mass dribbleBy your argument you should be able to score points in baseball by merely hitting a massive amount of balls into the outfield, repeatedly... no pitchers, no basemen, no running, just hit balls and get points and win..You want rewards for doing nothing, thats what your asking for. The game is based off quests, you dont want to quest, then dont complain about not getting rewards...You want an "I win" button where you can just make a toon, take him and auto attack and tab through mobs for 12 hours and get lvl 80 with 200 AA... thats lame... quests make up the game... learn them well and questing is actually fun... you can hang out with friends and grind quests together, turn them in together, pull 10-20 mobs at a time, do a few AOE's and go turn in together... where it would take you 30 minutes to grind solo through "Kill 12 ChickenDragons" it would take a mater of a few minutes with a full group...

Deson

05-06-2009, 08:17 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kinda confused how people can get upset / mad / disapointed / frustrated / etc etc... over having to do quests to get the full content of the game called... you guessed it.. EVER QUEST.. Not just Quest... but EVER quest, indicating a never ending supply of quests... thats the name of the game.. Not Ever GRIND, or Ever Slaughter... or Ever Powerlevel... Ever QUEST>..</blockquote>Don't delve up this dead arguement.Play Everquest, get to end game, describe to me how many 'quests' were critical in your progression.Eq2 Until RoK expansion, solo questing was entirely optional. I in fact, never completed a solo quest intentionally unless required for access or advancement until RoK came out.So, as kindly as I can say it, shove the quest in Everquest arguement, k, thx.</blockquote>LOL so stop arguing that you should have to quest to get the full reward from EverQuest? LOL! By your argument, to get points in a basketball game you should just be able to dribble the ball on the sidelines and score... its what you want to do to enjoy yourself, you should get points and promoted to different positions based on your ability to mass dribbleBy your argument you should be able to score points in baseball by merely hitting a massive amount of balls into the outfield, repeatedly... no pitchers, no basemen, no running, just hit balls and get points and win..You want rewards for doing nothing, thats what your asking for. The game is based off quests, you dont want to quest, then dont complain about not getting rewards...You want an "I win" button where you can just make a toon, take him and auto attack and tab through mobs for 12 hours and get lvl 80 with 200 AA... thats lame... quests make up the game... learn them well and questing is actually fun... you can hang out with friends and grind quests together, turn them in together, pull 10-20 mobs at a time, do a few AOE's and go turn in together... where it would take you 30 minutes to grind solo through "Kill 12 ChickenDragons" it would take a mater of a few minutes with a full group...</blockquote>Yes stop arguing that because the game was never exclusively such until RoK. The game was well varied in it's play choices until RoK came and madated solo questing and TSO reinforced it. How is it wanting an "I win" button doing content that's actually harder than your example of mass solo slaughter? If that's going to be the only relevant part of your argument, thank you I appreciate your effort on our part.

Dasein

05-07-2009, 12:35 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>And conversly, if you start TSO at 80/140 and just solo how far will you get? Once you exhaust the solo quest lines, that's pretty much it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with the optimal means of levelling being a mix of solo and heroic content, while you seem to think there needs to be an exclusively heroic levelling path from to 80/200. To me, your position sounds as unreasonable as those who want raid-level rewards from solo quests.</blockquote>Your of course entittled to your opinion. But I think completing harder content shouldn't yield less advancement experience. I believe the current system is closer to raid-level rewards from solo quests than what I'm suggesting.Very few players can not reach 80/200 by doing TSO soloquests plus going back to grey quests they skipped leveling up, or in zones / expansions that came out after they leveled. And while I've not finished out to 200aa, I'm quite certain there are more than enough quests to do it with, even if half of them will be grey. Will I enjoy the content? No. Will I find challenge in advancing my character? No. Does this make for good game design? No.I know of very few players without enough available grey quests to finish out where TSO soloquest dropped off, and doing those grey soloquests yeilds more AP xp / hr than doing missions. I ask, does that mechanic make sense? Should I get more advancement doing zek quests for an hour vs doing Ferzhul? Why exactly should that be the case?</blockquote>It may be possible to level up from 140 to 200AA on TSO solo quests and grey quests alone, although it will be excruciatingly slow, on par with trying to level AAs off just the converted combat XP. However, if you do solo quests, while running the instance missions and do the heroic quests, AA comes at a fairly decent rate. Quick AA advancement favors a balance of play styles, which is the way it should be. Also, keep in mind that most quests aren't repeatable, so while you may get a few percent from doing a grey quest line here or there, once it's done, that's it.

Noaani

05-07-2009, 04:59 AM

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>The swarm pet bugs are terrible because for casting classes</blockquote>Melee spec templar = solo spec templar.Its not SoEs fault if you spec your character in an impropper manner and then find content too difficult.

Yimway

05-07-2009, 11:21 AM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It may be possible to level up from 140 to 200AA on TSO solo quests and grey quests alone, although it will be excruciatingly slow, on par with trying to level AAs off just the converted combat XP. However, if you do solo quests, while running the instance missions and do the heroic quests, AA comes at a fairly decent rate. Quick AA advancement favors a balance of play styles, which is the way it should be. Also, keep in mind that most quests aren't repeatable, so while you may get a few percent from doing a grey quest line here or there, once it's done, that's it.</blockquote>Again, you're very wrong. You can do all the TSO quests, then complete each mission once for disco and named kills. You can complete the signature quest, all this got me from 140 to 172 aa.Your then only left with repeatable missions that after 180aa yield ~2% xp. At which point spending an hour doing grey quests in say zek yields about 30% of an aa, where doing a mission for an hour yields ~2.5%. At such point grey soloquesting becomes significantly more rewarding than doing actually challenging content.As I said, there are more than enough grey quests for most players to go back and finish off the gap going that route. Making grey questing more rewarding for character advancement than doing current tier content. More to my point though, I do not and will not repeat all these borring, unchallenging quests on all my toons. And if I don't have alting to fill my time between expansions, well SoE can just write me off as a subscriber. The central point of my arguement is doing challenging content should reward advancement at a minumum of 50% of the reward of doing zero challenge content.As an example, I would put finishing PoF at roughly a ~10% aa reward at the 180aa marker. Thats 60-90 min run for most groups clearing it, posses a challenge to the players doing it, and 10% is less than those same 6 would have earned doing grey quests. I find this game rediculous that I have to decide between doing something challenging OR advancing my character.

Dasein

05-07-2009, 12:31 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>It may be possible to level up from 140 to 200AA on TSO solo quests and grey quests alone, although it will be excruciatingly slow, on par with trying to level AAs off just the converted combat XP. However, if you do solo quests, while running the instance missions and do the heroic quests, AA comes at a fairly decent rate. Quick AA advancement favors a balance of play styles, which is the way it should be. Also, keep in mind that most quests aren't repeatable, so while you may get a few percent from doing a grey quest line here or there, once it's done, that's it.</blockquote>Again, you're very wrong. You can do all the TSO quests, then complete each mission once for disco and named kills. You can complete the signature quest, all this got me from 140 to 172 aa.Your then only left with repeatable missions that after 180aa yield ~2% xp. At which point spending an hour doing grey quests in say zek yields about 30% of an aa, where doing a mission for an hour yields ~2.5%. At such point grey soloquesting becomes significantly more rewarding than doing actually challenging content.As I said, there are more than enough grey quests for most players to go back and finish off the gap going that route. Making grey questing more rewarding for character advancement than doing current tier content. More to my point though, I do not and will not repeat all these borring, unchallenging quests on all my toons. And if I don't have alting to fill my time between expansions, well SoE can just write me off as a subscriber. The central point of my arguement is doing challenging content should reward advancement at a minumum of 50% of the reward of doing zero challenge content.As an example, I would put finishing PoF at roughly a ~10% aa reward at the 180aa marker. Thats 60-90 min run for most groups clearing it, posses a challenge to the players doing it, and 10% is less than those same 6 would have earned doing grey quests. I find this game rediculous that I have to decide between doing something challenging OR advancing my character.</blockquote>This assumes you never did those grey quests before. In my experience, most grey quests in the 30-40 range gave about 1-2% AA at 180+, and while there may be occasional new batches of grey quests like the EF and Lavastorm revamp, I have already done the vast majority of the quests in a zone like Zek.I don't object to increasing the reward for heroic content slightly, perhaps making some of the harder missions reward slightly more AAXP (on the order of 1-2%) so easy zones may reward 3%, medium zones 4% and hard zones 5%. I'd give the end named encounters a slight AA reward for repeat kills, too, in the range of .5-.75%.

Yimway

05-07-2009, 12:43 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>This assumes you never did those grey quests before. In my experience, most grey quests in the 30-40 range gave about 1-2% AA at 180+, and while there may be occasional new batches of grey quests like the EF and Lavastorm revamp, I have already done the vast majority of the quests in a zone like Zek.I don't object to increasing the reward for heroic content slightly, perhaps making some of the harder missions reward slightly more AAXP (on the order of 1-2%) so easy zones may reward 3%, medium zones 4% and hard zones 5%. I'd give the end named encounters a slight AA reward for repeat kills, too, in the range of .5-.75%.</blockquote>As I said, in experience of my piers, only about 1 in 20 don't have enough available gray quest lines to finish out to 200. Problem with adjusting the missions, is some of the harder zones don't even have missions, they just have shards on nameds. There are plenty of ways of adjusting the AP reward system, and thats what I count 3 of the questions asked and denied as alluding to in this last round of questions.I'm pleased to see that you 'don't object' to challenging content providing a bit more rewards. The real question is, why doesn't the designer polled with these questions see the problem with the status quot?

Sprin

05-07-2009, 02:01 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>More to my point though, I do not and will not repeat all these borring, unchallenging quests on all my toons. And if I don't have alting to fill my time between expansions, well SoE can just write me off as a subscriber. </blockquote>So you're not repeating anything if you havn't done them.. If you failed to do the quests when you were that tier, how can you expect to have maximum AA and expect to get 200 AA points just from doing the TSO lines... you havn't done the lower level stuff which would have put you at 172-180 AA before you even started TSO quest lines, and then you would easily hit 200 AA... the fact that you didnt do those quests to begin with was a /fail on your part... if you like grinding up, those are the consequences.. if you like doing collections to get from lvl 1-40 in 20 seconds then how can you complain that there is not enough high level content to get 200 AA's when you havn't done the low level content.You cant expect them to give you teh ability to just start in TSO and get all 200 AA's from that content.. If you did the low level stuff when you were that level, you'd be fine...I dont have 200 AA on my lvl 80's yet, but I've done all the TSO quest lines, except for a few instances, because i hate Instances.. but you dont see me complaining about it, because i know I have skipped hundreds of low level quests along the way and that was my choice at the time and now i can go back and do them and get 200 AA easily, i just dont want to at the moment.. but im not on here complaining about it, becuase it was MY CHOICE to skip them... The AA exp isnt broken, it works as intended, just like the GM's / Devs have said.. its the players who choose to skip that content and then complain about AA imbalance... its not imbalanced, you were just lazy and didnt want to do all the quests.If you were to tell me that you have completed every one of the lower level quests, or at least a vast vast majority of them, and the vast majority of named kills and still say you cant get enough AA doing TSO quest line after doing that, then i would call you a liar.. because if you do all the content, the AA xp is very balanced and very attainable

Yimway

05-07-2009, 02:25 PM

feldon30

05-07-2009, 02:54 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll sum it up with this...Why do I have to decide between doing something challenging OR advancing my character.</blockquote>And I'll sum it up like this. No matter how much evidence you show Dasein that the sky is blue, he is going to insist it is pink.We and many others in many other threads have posted countless screen snapshots, charts, diagrams, and comparisons with real data. Dasein's responses are all theoretical from someone who hasn't actually gotten much AA and thus has limited perspective on the issue.I assure you most of the folks who think that the leveling speed and AA experience speeds are "just right" are all employed by SoE.I was glad to see when I signed in that there is bonus XP this weekend for Shattered Lands zones. But I'm guessing it's combat XP which we already have more than enough of, and not AA XP. Right now there are huge DISincentives to running old dungeons because your level will far outstrip your AA points. If you play EQ2 how it was designed to be played -- spending equal parts of your time doing quests and running dungeons -- you will reach level 80 with barely 75 AA points and then have to go back and do 125 AA points worth of greyed out content. I really think the answer of all this is to add a quest for completing each of the dungeons in level 20-60 which rewards an ENTIRE aa point, or adjust the AA for the names in dungeons level 20-60 upwards by about 400%. Then running dungeons will be a viable method of leveling AND gaining AA.

urgthock

05-07-2009, 04:19 PM

In my opinion, it was a failure on the part of the developers when they introduced a new expansion that allowed you to obtain 60 additional AA ability points, and did not include a method to obtain enough achievement experience to gain all 60 points within the expansion. I think it is completely fair to claim that one should not HAVE to go through previous content in order to reach the new maximum.Prior to the first idea of increasing the aa ability point cap, there was clearly enough content in the game to reach the cap (140 points). Therefore, whether you had gone through all of the available content or not was immaterial. All you had to have done is go through enough to hit the cap of 140 points, as many people did. It is unfair for the developers to create this mechanic and then have the expectation that in order to fully "experience" it, you will have to go back and do previous content to make up the difference. Some people put forth the argument that, "hey the content is there and if you chose not to do it that is your fault". They are flat out wrong. The content was there but it was ok if I chose not to do it all because at the time that I was progressing through it, it wasn't necessary to do ALL the content, I only had to do enough to hit the cap. If the cap had been 200 from the start I for one (and I'm sure many others) would have altered my playstyle with the knowledge that hey, I can't afford to skip all this content, I will need it to be able to hit the AA ability point cap.Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Sprin

05-07-2009, 04:26 PM

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll sum it up with this...Why do I have to decide between doing something challenging OR advancing my character.</blockquote>And I'll sum it up like this. No matter how much evidence you show Dasein that the sky is blue, he is going to insist it is pink.We and many others in many other threads have posted countless screen snapshots, charts, diagrams, and comparisons with real data. Dasein's responses are all theoretical from someone who hasn't actually gotten much AA and thus has limited perspective on the issue.I assure you most of the folks who think that the leveling speed and AA experience speeds are "just right" are all employed by SoE.I was glad to see when I signed in that there is bonus XP this weekend for Shattered Lands zones. But I'm guessing it's combat XP which we already have more than enough of, and not AA XP. Right now there are huge DISincentives to running old dungeons because your level will far outstrip your AA points. If you play EQ2 how it was designed to be played -- spending equal parts of your time doing quests and running dungeons -- you will reach level 80 with barely 75 AA points and then have to go back and do 125 AA points worth of greyed out content. I really think the answer of all this is to add a quest for completing each of the dungeons in level 20-60 which rewards an ENTIRE aa point, or adjust the AA for the names in dungeons level 20-60 upwards by about 400%. Then running dungeons will be a viable method of leveling AND gaining AA.</blockquote>If you're hitting lvl 80 with 75 AA points, you need to go play WOW TBH... And if you hit did all the content prior to ROK, meaning quests, instances, etc... you would have hit 140 AA long before you completed all of the ROK quests... So you either chose to do the rest of the quests without getting AA, or you chose to skip the lower level content and waited until ROK to gain the remaining 40 AA points... Same can be said about the 100 AA cap... if you skipped a bunch of content and went right to 70 and did the T7 stuff to get the 100 AA points, then you missed out on the lower content.Point is there has ALWAYS been plenty of AA to be had, its just the people that skip over it that are complaining about imbalance.. If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? YoursIf you had done all the lower level content, you would have hit 100 AA cap with room to spare, then ROK comes out and you would have hit 140 with room to spare... then you would still have ROK quests to do and it would take you well on your way to 200 before you even touch the TSO stuffI dont work for SOE and i think theres plenty of balance.. People who want to be lazy and not do quests and other things that give you aa, then dont get mad at SOE, get mad at yourselves...If you wanna grind up to 80 with 12 AA at your fingers, dont get mad at SOE they didnt give you 178 AA points worth of quests to do in TSO.. you skipped content they have provided = you are to blame..

urgthock

05-07-2009, 04:33 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you're not repeating anything if you havn't done them.. If you failed to do the quests when you were that tier, how can you expect to have maximum AA and expect to get 200 AA points just from doing the TSO lines... you havn't done the lower level stuff which would have put you at 172-180 AA before you even started TSO quest lines, and then you would easily hit 200 AA... the fact that you didnt do those quests to begin with was a /fail on your part</blockquote>This statement will only apply if your character was either created or hit the AA cap AFTER TSO was released. Otherwise, it is a ludicrous statement. Whether you had done every single quest, killed every single named, and gotten every single loot and disco aa hit OR had just gotten enough, you still would have been at 140 AA at the release of TSO.

urgthock

05-07-2009, 04:38 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'll sum it up with this...Why do I have to decide between doing something challenging OR advancing my character.</blockquote>And I'll sum it up like this. No matter how much evidence you show Dasein that the sky is blue, he is going to insist it is pink.We and many others in many other threads have posted countless screen snapshots, charts, diagrams, and comparisons with real data. Dasein's responses are all theoretical from someone who hasn't actually gotten much AA and thus has limited perspective on the issue.I assure you most of the folks who think that the leveling speed and AA experience speeds are "just right" are all employed by SoE.I was glad to see when I signed in that there is bonus XP this weekend for Shattered Lands zones. But I'm guessing it's combat XP which we already have more than enough of, and not AA XP. Right now there are huge DISincentives to running old dungeons because your level will far outstrip your AA points. If you play EQ2 how it was designed to be played -- spending equal parts of your time doing quests and running dungeons -- you will reach level 80 with barely 75 AA points and then have to go back and do 125 AA points worth of greyed out content. I really think the answer of all this is to add a quest for completing each of the dungeons in level 20-60 which rewards an ENTIRE aa point, or adjust the AA for the names in dungeons level 20-60 upwards by about 400%. Then running dungeons will be a viable method of leveling AND gaining AA.</blockquote>If you're hitting lvl 80 with 75 AA points, you need to go play WOW TBH... And if you hit did all the content prior to ROK, meaning quests, instances, etc... you would have hit 140 AA long before you completed all of the ROK quests... So you either chose to do the rest of the quests without getting AA, or you chose to skip the lower level content and waited until ROK to gain the remaining 40 AA points... Same can be said about the 100 AA cap... if you skipped a bunch of content and went right to 70 and did the T7 stuff to get the 100 AA points, then you missed out on the lower content.Point is there has ALWAYS been plenty of AA to be had, its just the people that skip over it that are complaining about imbalance.. If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? YoursIf you had done all the lower level content, you would have hit 100 AA cap with room to spare, then ROK comes out and you would have hit 140 with room to spare... then you would still have ROK quests to do and it would take you well on your way to 200 before you even touch the TSO stuffI dont work for SOE and i think theres plenty of balance.. People who want to be lazy and not do quests and other things that give you aa, then dont get mad at SOE, get mad at yourselves...If you wanna grind up to 80 with 12 AA at your fingers, dont get mad at SOE they didnt give you 178 AA points worth of quests to do in TSO.. you skipped content they have provided = you are to blame..</blockquote>All of your statements make perfect sense, if you can see the future.

Noaani

05-07-2009, 04:39 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>people that skip over it that are complaining about imbalance.. If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? Yours</blockquote>I did all the quests in RoK to get to 140 AAs because when Rok was released I didn't have any EoF content left to run because I ran it all to get to 100 AAs because I didn't have any KoS content left to run because I used it all to get to 50 AAs because I didn't have any original/DoF cotnent to run because I had finished it all.Having content left to run in an expansion is a sign of someone that started their toon post KoS. For those that started well before that, there were never any gray quests to run to grind out AAs.

Yimway

05-07-2009, 04:49 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. We don't level up in both quickly, and there isn't enough provided content for veterans to complete the process with reasonable time spent. Further more, the notion that you expect me to grind these same aweful soloquests to progress my alts vs providing me an option in earning xp in the playstyle I enjoy spending my time in, is a clear message to me that EQ2 simply is no longer the right game for me. I clearly have a different perspective that may be better served by an alternate title, as I don't judge the designers viewpoint on this issue to be either accurate or insightful.</blockquote>I don't make a point of quoting myself, but wanted to just sum this up.I don't see why the question got that answer given Aeralik's comments in:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=450511" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=450511</a>So, I'll wait for GU52 to hit test before I comment anymore about what needs to happen regarding advancement outside of SoloQuest lines.

urgthock

05-07-2009, 05:05 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did all the quests in RoK to get to 140 AAs because when Rok was released I didn't have any EoF content left to run because I ran it all to get to 100 AAs because I didn't have any KoS content left to run because I used it all to get to 50 AAs because I didn't have any original/DoF cotnent to run because I had finished it all.Having content left to run in an expansion is a sign of someone that started their toon post KoS. For those that started well before that, there were never any gray quests to run to grind out AAs.</blockquote>Agreed.In addition, it is a ridiculous statement to say something to the effect of "Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around".And no Noaani, that is not directed at you. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sprin

05-07-2009, 05:45 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>people that skip over it that are complaining about imbalance.. If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? Yours</blockquote>I did all the quests in RoK to get to 140 AAs because when Rok was released I didn't have any EoF content left to run because I ran it all to get to 100 AAs because I didn't have any KoS content left to run because I used it all to get to 50 AAs because I didn't have any original/DoF cotnent to run because I had finished it all.Having content left to run in an expansion is a sign of someone that started their toon post KoS. For those that started well before that, there were never any gray quests to run to grind out AAs.</blockquote>So say what you want to say, what you really want.. You want SOE to give you AA points because you created a toon before the AA system even was invented... Go Ahead, thats what you want..You are not asking the right question.. The AA in the game IS balanced... you are complaining that since you created yoru toon before AA existed, you want credit for the AA you didnt get because it didnt exist yet. So all the quests you did in lower tier didnt give aa because it didnt exist... So you ask the Dev's to "balance the AA exp" or something, when it IS balanced, thats why you are getting that answer. Ask what you really want to ask... but you wont do that because you know the answer to that already. You want to ask:Q: Can i get AA credit for the quests i completed before AA even existed?Go ahead, ask it, thats what your whining about in this thread... but you know the answer to that...Dont try to muddy the waters with the holier then thou stuff about the game being imbalanced and there not being enough AA... You want a grandfather clause because you made your toon 3 years ago and want freebie AA's... What if i made a toon before EQ2 existed.. in EQ1... then becuase i made my toon before EQ2 existed and before AA existed, SOE should give me 200 AA's and an EQ2 toon to go with it.And your argument that "well i made my toon 3 years ago, so therefore the game is imbalanced" blah blah... its not imbalanced there is plenty of content, you just did half the content before AA existed...That's like asking for a back log of points for a football team that existed before the 2 point conversion rule in football existed.. You played the game before that rule, so, if tha rule had been in place before, you would have gotten alot of 2 point conversions but you didnt because it didnt exist back then.. so now you want the points you WOULD have gotten stacked on your teams stats... So then since you didnt get the points backloged you want to complain the rule isnt balanced and that people are being penalized for not choosing to do the 2 point conversion.... when its just that you played before that rule existed...

Sprin

05-07-2009, 05:52 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did all the quests in RoK to get to 140 AAs because when Rok was released I didn't have any EoF content left to run because I ran it all to get to 100 AAs because I didn't have any KoS content left to run because I used it all to get to 50 AAs because I didn't have any original/DoF cotnent to run because I had finished it all.Having content left to run in an expansion is a sign of someone that started their toon post KoS. For those that started well before that, there were never any gray quests to run to grind out AAs.</blockquote>Agreed.In addition, it is a ridiculous statement to say something to the effect of "Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around".And no Noaani, that is not directed at you. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>If you CHOOSE to do quests without getting any AA rewards thats how you CHOOSE to play... And yes i CAN tell the future.. just like i could tell the future when the cap was 140, and like i could tell the future when the cap was 70/100... if you CHOOSE to use up all the content without getting AA for it because your capped already, then thats what you have to live with the next expansion. I was capped at 140 in ROK long before i completed all the quests ROK had to offer... and well before i knew the aa cap was goin to 200... I CHOSE not to do any more quests becuase i knew there would be an expansion some day and that i was wasting AA and XP points by doing that... If you choose to ignore that, then dont complain.. it was your choice

urgthock

05-07-2009, 06:27 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you CHOOSE to do quests without getting any AA rewards thats how you CHOOSE to play... And yes i CAN tell the future.. just like i could tell the future when the cap was 140, and like i could tell the future when the cap was 70/100... if you CHOOSE to use up all the content without getting AA for it because your capped already, then thats what you have to live with the next expansion. I was capped at 140 in ROK long before i completed all the quests ROK had to offer... and well before i knew the aa cap was goin to 200... I CHOSE not to do any more quests becuase i knew there would be an expansion some day and that i was wasting AA and XP points by doing that... If you choose to ignore that, then dont complain.. it was your choice</blockquote>"Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing (or in your version CHOOSE not to experience) anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around" is a ridiculous statement and is exactly what you are saying. "Nuff said".

urgthock

05-07-2009, 06:58 PM

I will even provide a concrete example of WHY "Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing (or in your version CHOOSE not to experience) anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around" is a ridiculous statement.If you have somehow managed to hit the achievement point cap without having run Palace, you should CHOOSE not to run it until the next achievement level cap is introduced, regardless of whether any loot items may be an upgrade for your character; "looking into the future" you will probably need that aa "hit" to reach the next cap. And if you are a raider that has hit the achievement cap, you better hope you have already killed every mob that might drop a raid item you need because if not, well you better CHOOSE not to kill them in the future until the next achievement level cap increase arrives. The extrapolation could go on and on.I include the quantifier "somehow" because in my experience TSO was the first expansion that did not include enough content within the expansion to allow you to reach the newly introduced AA cap. And since historical data is (usually) the best indicator of future expectations, there was no reason to believe that stockpiling "potential" AA was necessary. I am sure that there are many people who made their characters prior to the introduction of achievement abilities that may very well have had this expectation, but only because they were forced by Sony's design into playing "catch up". However, anyone that made their character after the introduction of achievement points and abilities (as I did) had no reason to believe the amount of content in future expansions would not be enough to reach the cap, based on historical data i.e. experience.

Yimway

05-07-2009, 07:03 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you CHOOSE to do quests without getting any AA rewards thats how you CHOOSE to play... And yes i CAN tell the future.. just like i could tell the future when the cap was 140, and like i could tell the future when the cap was 70/100... if you CHOOSE to use up all the content without getting AA for it because your capped already, then thats what you have to live with the next expansion. </blockquote>"Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing (or in your version CHOOSE not to experience) anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around" is a ridiculous statement and is exactly what you are saying. "Nuff said".</blockquote>Heh, I was going to ignore it completely, but your reply egg'd me on.Somehow presented with an expansion of over powering amount of aa from soloquesting this player had the clairvoyance to know the next expansion wouldn't be more of the same and knew to stop leaving 70-100 extra quests for the next expansion.I mean faced with overwhelming questing content, he somehow just 'knew' the next expansion wouldn't be similar.No real point argueing this though, its already been announced that GU52 will contain some changes to how AA is earned that will make earning AA outside of questing more viable.

Sprin

05-07-2009, 11:43 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you have somehow managed to hit the achievement point cap without having run Palace, you should CHOOSE not to run it until the next achievement level cap is introduced, regardless of whether any loot items may be an upgrade for your character; "looking into the future" you will probably need that aa "hit" to reach the next cap. And if you are a raider that has hit the achievement cap, you better hope you have already killed every mob that might drop a raid item you need because if not, well you better CHOOSE not to kill them in the future until the next achievement level cap increase arrives. The extrapolation could go on and on.</blockquote>LOLZ.. there is your problem right there.. you have no idea what your talking about and therefore probably dont know how to utilize the stuff you are given.. Seeing as how if your capped out on AA you can kill Named mobs till your heart is content and you still get AA for them when the cap is raised... thnx for trying though, k thnx bubye....Next time you try to be a "smart alek" try hard to actually know what your talking about before hand... otherwise you jsut show how newb you ar. k thnx bubye...

Xissu

05-08-2009, 09:58 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did all the quests in RoK to get to 140 AAs because when Rok was released I didn't have any EoF content left to run because I ran it all to get to 100 AAs because I didn't have any KoS content left to run because I used it all to get to 50 AAs because I didn't have any original/DoF cotnent to run because I had finished it all.Having content left to run in an expansion is a sign of someone that started their toon post KoS. For those that started well before that, there were never any gray quests to run to grind out AAs.</blockquote>Agreed.In addition, it is a ridiculous statement to say something to the effect of "Once you have experienced enough content within a certain expansion to reach the achievement level cap, you should refrain from experiencing anymore because you might just need it to grind aa when the next achievement level cap increase rolls around".And no Noaani, that is not directed at you. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>If you CHOOSE to do quests without getting any AA rewards thats how you CHOOSE to play... And yes i CAN tell the future.. just like i could tell the future when the cap was 140, and like i could tell the future when the cap was 70/100... if you CHOOSE to use up all the content without getting AA for it because your capped already, then thats what you have to live with the next expansion. I was capped at 140 in ROK long before i completed all the quests ROK had to offer... and well before i knew the aa cap was goin to 200... I CHOSE not to do any more quests becuase i knew there would be an expansion some day and that i was wasting AA and XP points by doing that... If you choose to ignore that, then dont complain.. it was your choice</blockquote>Ok I just want to get this straight Sprinng... in your opinion it is reasonable for some one playing everQUEST to have to choose not to do some of the games quests, just because they are capped out, seriously? I mean pick an arguement, you are arguing on one side that the game is everQUEST and we have no right to complain about being forced to do repetative boring quests as a method of advancement. But here you are saying well hey if you were stupid and played the game and did those quests well that was your bad now wasn't it! Honestly it doesn't really matter what playstyle people choose there should be relatively equal rewards to both, and currently there isn't.This game was based originally on the concept of effort VS reward, and all the way up to the release of ROK, the effort involved with doing harder content reflected in the amount of AA exp you received while at lvl cap. Currently it does not, I don't find it at ALL reasonable that if the game is actually converting my exp to AA exp that the same exp that would give me 1% of a level is not enough to give me .1% of an AA (try it some time before you give back some witty and pointless response).Only at the release of ROK did this become a fact, prior to that you could max out a character playing pretty much anyway that got you exp (Questing, Mass slaughter, etc...). So question I think most of us have is why the change? I mean WHAT exactly was the reasoning behind leading us all the way to ROK and then shafting us? And since I know for a fact you don't actually have that answer, how about you stop with all the childish BS and let some one who does answer.

feldon30

05-08-2009, 10:05 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're hitting lvl 80 with 75 AA points, you need to go play WOW TBH... And if you hit did all the content prior to ROK, meaning quests, instances, etc... you would have hit 140 AA long before you completed all of the ROK questsPoint is there has ALWAYS been plenty of AA to be had, its just the people that skip over it that are complaining about imbalance.. If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? Yours</blockquote> Have you leveled a character from 1-80 since TSO? I think not.In case you didn't get the memo, they nearly tripled leveling speed with GU49 and GU50 (TSO).Unless you level lock (disable combat XP), you will reach level 70 having only done about 1/4 of the instances and zones in the game. The only way you would get to level 70 with 140 AA now is if you lock XP starting at level 10. <cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you started TSO with 140 AA points and 0 ROK quests to still finish, then whos fault is that? Yours</blockquote> I'm not sure I am understanding this quote. You are saying I did the wrong thing by leveling "normally" with a mixture of group and solo content, reaching level 80 with 140 AAs because I completed all the Kunark quest lines?I ran CoA, VoES, MC, even the godawful Chelsith enough times to get my 77 Kunark Legendary gear, I did all the Kunark quest lines, I got my Epic Weapon, and I did all the Kunark quests to get 140 AA. How is that wrong? What should I have done? Sat around with about 115 AAs and no Epic Weapon?Before GU49 and GU50 completely borked the leveling curve, it was appropriate to level in EQ2 from 20-70 by doing a mixture of dungeons/instances and quests. With the 300% combat XP bonus we all seem to now have post-TSO, if you run a dungeon for 2 hours at level 20-60, you will completely outlevel all of the content in the adjoining zones.I suggest you roll a toon, get to level 19, and without disabling XP, walk into Stormhold with the mobs yellow, and by the time you reach the bottom, I assure you the mobs will be grey.

urgthock

05-08-2009, 11:56 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOLZ.. there is your problem right there.. you have no idea what your talking about and therefore probably dont know how to utilize the stuff you are given.. Seeing as how if your capped out on AA you can kill Named mobs till your heart is content and you still get AA for them when the cap is raised... thnx for trying though, k thnx bubye....Next time you try to be a "smart alek" try hard to actually know what your talking about before hand... otherwise you jsut show how newb you ar. k thnx bubye...</blockquote>Ok then, if the above is the case then I suppose "you got me" in regards to achievement experience from Named mobs. Since I did however include the caveat of "the extrapolation could go on and on" I will simply say your statement is still ridiculous and everthing I said (while being a smart alec... if your going to insult me do it right) still applies... to quests and collections. Hopefully you have gotten your epic and mythical. Hopefully, you have already turned in the TSO relics of the ethernauts collection. Hopefully you have already completed any quest or collection that might offer a reward that you may need or want.

Megavolt

05-10-2009, 12:40 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: I know this a long shot, but is there anyway to roll back Devastation fist back to what it was before TSO came out. This CA was a perfect "finish him" move. Kinda like Bruce Lee's one inch punch, only moreso with a full swing and boom. This CA is no longer Devastating or Desolating.A: This was a percentage based skill which was problematic as npc healthy scaled up exponentially. The current values are currently inline with the higher damage fighter combat arts, and we don’t anticipate making any significant changes to it at this point.Another long shot question, can someone explain why the disparity of DA/MC/AE-Auto Attack between plate tanks and brawlers exist. (AA-wise that is.)</blockquote>Translation: Even though devastation fist in its old form was fine for every other expansion, we completely overinflated the hp's of all the non-named heroic mobs in TSO. Oh, and posting the second question with no answer means we really don't care about the brawlers. Keep wearing yer healer melee gear to get dps, take yer crappy aa's and go whine someplace else.THANK YOU SOE!!

therodge

05-10-2009, 05:34 PM

<cite>Brickfist wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: I know this a long shot, but is there anyway to roll back Devastation fist back to what it was before TSO came out. This CA was a perfect "finish him" move. Kinda like Bruce Lee's one inch punch, only moreso with a full swing and boom. This CA is no longer Devastating or Desolating.A: This was a percentage based skill which was problematic as npc healthy scaled up exponentially. The current values are currently inline with the higher damage fighter combat arts, and we don’t anticipate making any significant changes to it at this point.Another long shot question, can someone explain why the disparity of DA/MC/AE-Auto Attack between plate tanks and brawlers exist. (AA-wise that is.)</blockquote>Translation: Even though devastation fist in its old form was fine for every other expansion, we completely overinflated the hp's of all the non-named heroic mobs in TSO. Oh, and posting the second question with no answer means we really don't care about the brawlers. Keep wearing yer healer melee gear to get dps, take yer crappy aa's and go whine someplace else.THANK YOU SOE!!</blockquote>Translation: % based spells are genrally bad and have been trying to weed them outand this is all done copy and paste they copy/pasted more then what they wanted. seriously yes brawlers have it bad but just whineing does nothing i suggest you put in acual input otherwise your post adds nothing

Sprin

05-11-2009, 02:34 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOLZ.. there is your problem right there.. you have no idea what your talking about and therefore probably dont know how to utilize the stuff you are given.. Seeing as how if your capped out on AA you can kill Named mobs till your heart is content and you still get AA for them when the cap is raised... thnx for trying though, k thnx bubye....Next time you try to be a "smart alek" try hard to actually know what your talking about before hand... otherwise you jsut show how newb you ar. k thnx bubye...</blockquote>Ok then, if the above is the case then I suppose "you got me" in regards to achievement experience from Named mobs. Since I did however include the caveat of "the extrapolation could go on and on" I will simply say your statement is still ridiculous and everthing I said (while being a smart alec... if your going to insult me do it right) still applies... to quests and collections. Hopefully you have gotten your epic and mythical. Hopefully, you have already turned in the TSO relics of the ethernauts collection. Hopefully you have already completed any quest or collection that might offer a reward that you may need or want.</blockquote>If you have reached max AA and want an Item that is dropped by a collection, or that requires doing a long quest line to get... that is your choice to do or not do it... the potential for enough AA's is there, if you choose not to use it, then tuff beans... If you dont want to do HQs because they are too logn and the reward is too small, and you let them gray out, tuff beans.... that was your choice. The AA is there.People crying that "OMG i have to LOCK my xp to get all the AA"... I dont see why this is a big deal.. If you CHOOSE not to lock your character, seeing as they have given this option, then whose fault is it again that you skipped the content? You can go back and do it when the quests are gray, so there is no "outleveling" anymore, they have even given us that option... so they have combated the quick leveling with the locking of not only XP from kills but from quests as well, and allowed us to get AA from old gray quests as well... So the only content your truely "missing" is the named kills, which is lame that you dont get aa for gray named, and have to find someone in that level range to mentor, but thats the only problem i see as not being a "choice".. but then again, i can lock a toon at any given level and hunt named bosses until I have them all, unlock and move to the next round of named NPCs'... so again, a choice.So you see, SOE has given us all the options, if you choose not to use the options, how is that SOE's fault again? You want them to cater to EVERYONES playstyle ALL AT THE SAME TIME... You want SOE to make the game play for the 123,235 different play styles that one can think of... well they have, its your choice on how you play the game, they have given you all the options, if you CHOOSE to skip something and CHOOSE not to utilize the MULTIPLE different ways they have given to play the game, Whose fault is that again? Cuz it sure isnt Sonys..Again... if you want them to just give you a lvl 80 toon with 200 AA and mythcial and full set of TSO raid gear and Avatar loots.. just ask, they may do it for you... otherwise, CHOOSE to ignore the content they have provided and keep complaining over nothing like you keep doing.

Yimway

05-12-2009, 12:00 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>And if your telling me that you could "pre TSO" or "Pre ROK" just sit there and kill 300 million oystercats from lvl 1 you could get 70/100 or 80/140, your full of it... the game was NEVER designed to do that.. sure you may hit max level, but you'd have almost 0 AA and then the xp to AA conversion is so small it would take you until the next expansion to get a few AA points doing that...</blockquote>Prior to RoK there was enough heroic progression quests coupled with a high enough kill xp conversion amount to reach the level and aa cap without ever doing a SoloQuest.The first 3 years of the games existance could be mastered with the top end-game content finished without ever picking up a SoloQuest. SoloQuest was ancelary to finishing the game, not a core component of game play. It wasn't about sitting still and killing owlbears. There were long, involved heroic progression quests that finished in raid mobs. Working those quests and completing them provided sufficient rewards to reach the end of level/aa progression.At the same time since launch, there was an outcry for more solo content, more soloquests, and more things for people to do who couldn't be bothered to get a group. With nearly each update more and more of that content was added such that there is more than enough of it to reach top level/aa progression with it alone. However, it was NOT that way at launch, and it isn't the way the game always was.It wasn't until RoK launched that Soloquest became an integral part of EQ2 game play. I have no qualms with the solo content, I'm glad that is there for those that enjoy it. I'm glad they can get to max progression via that pathway. The posts in this thread, and related threads on the AA issue are simply asking that another playstyle be rewarded as well. To restore what was a viable playstyle before RoK to be viable again.I'd much prefer that be restored by adding some better signature quests with a good story line and say 30-50 heroic subquests. But I understand that takes significant resources. Excepting that wont happen at this date, changing the xp conversion rate to allow players to do both challenging content AND earn aa progression is a good move. You should never build an MMO that requires the player to choose between advancing their character OR doing something challenging.Personally, I prefer to do something challenging when I play. It keeps me engaged with the game and I have a good time playing. Soloquest for me is mind numbing and when every mob needed for the quests dies to toggling auto attack on, I can't manage to keep myself mentally engaged with the game and I lose focus and opt to find something else to do.

Kiara

05-12-2009, 02:57 PM

No more personal attacks please.Continue to debate the responses all you like, however, please remember to keep things civil.

EQPrime

05-12-2009, 03:20 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you have reached max AA and want an Item that is dropped by a collection, or that requires doing a long quest line to get... that is your choice to do or not do it... the potential for enough AA's is there, if you choose not to use it, then tuff beans... If you dont want to do HQs because they are too logn and the reward is too small, and you let them gray out, tuff beans.... that was your choice. The AA is there.</blockquote>I was such a fool to complete my epic quests when I was already capped on achievement points in RoK. I should have waited until TSO came out!

Anestacia

05-12-2009, 05:59 PM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you have reached max AA and want an Item that is dropped by a collection, or that requires doing a long quest line to get... that is your choice to do or not do it... the potential for enough AA's is there, if you choose not to use it, then tuff beans... If you dont want to do HQs because they are too logn and the reward is too small, and you let them gray out, tuff beans.... that was your choice. The AA is there.</blockquote>I was such a fool to complete my epic quests when I was already capped on achievement points in RoK. I should have waited until TSO came out!</blockquote>Dont worry too much; the epic quest lines (atleast for fury, wizard, dirge and necromancer) didnt give very good AA at all considering the importance of the quest. Even the completion of mythicals for my non max toons didnt net near the AA I thought it would. 10% or so if i recall.

Jgok

05-12-2009, 09:43 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>~~~~~~~~~~Q: There have been many threads requesting / suggesting an xp slider to allow players to influence the distribution of experience being earned between the different experience pools. Many players feel one play style is greatly rewarded while other play styles are greatly penalized. Is there any plan to provide a mechanism like this that allows player influence over experience distribution?A: The slider worked well in EQ where you only had one option to gain achievement experience and that was through adventuring. In EQII, we allow you to gain achievement experience at a fast rate by questing, discovering new locations, killing named creatures and even by getting certain items without this impacting your adventure leveling. We feel that this ends up being a good overall compromise so players level up in both systems together pretty quickly.</blockquote>I respectfully disagree. We don't level up in both quickly, and there isn't enough provided content for veterans to complete the process with reasonable time spent. Further more, the notion that you expect me to grind these same aweful soloquests to progress my alts vs providing me an option in earning xp in the playstyle I enjoy spending my time in, is a clear message to me that EQ2 simply is no longer the right game for me. I clearly have a different perspective that may be better served by an alternate title, as I don't judge the designers viewpoint on this issue to be either accurate or insightful.</blockquote>And this is why there are so many questions on the issue and every answer seems to have missed the mark. With so many threads and questions related to the AP gain rate, one has to wonder why all the answers given seem to not actually address the point of concern. I posted the same question worded more directly in this months thread but it'd be nice to get an answer before then. There's rumor of content in GU 52 adressing AP gain but if that won't touch this issue then changes should be considered or an official thread should be opened on the issue. Mass slaughtering a zone used to be rewarding and there's no reason to not make the killing about more than the loot; it was such in the past and those are also my favorite memories of the game. I'm not knocking the quests but they get old fast on alts and when they feel forced they are robbed of their fun.</blockquote>Kinda confused how people can get upset / mad / disapointed / frustrated / etc etc... over having to do quests to get the full content of the game called... you guessed it.. EVER QUEST.. Not just Quest... but EVER quest, indicating a never ending supply of quests... thats the name of the game.. Not Ever GRIND, or Ever Slaughter... or Ever Powerlevel... Ever QUEST>.. So do quests or go find a different game... asking to change the mechanics of a game with that in the title seems kinda lame TBH...How can you expect / think you deserve to get the full amount of rewards from doing nothing to earn them... Just because you've done them before? That makes them easier... so you see rewards faster.. If you want SOE to just give you a lvl 80 Toon... just ask... they might.. :-/</blockquote>OK, I'll bite on this one.I started a new character, and leveled it to 20 in a few days just by doing green or higher quests quests (without locking xp in any way). At 20, he had 4 APs. I deleted him and started a different character, leveled him up by doing every single quest I could find, even if that quest was gray. I locked xp for a time at 15 and 19 so that I could hunt down and kill named mobs. When I initially hit level 19, I had something like 8-10 AAs. After a day or two, I leveled him up to 20, and locked again (so I could use carbonite armor). After two weeks of playing this character a few hours a night (doing nothing but quests and named killing), he's level 20 with 24 APs (I want to get the capstone title before I level him any further). The only AP-giving named mobs in Qeynos newbie zones and Antonica that he's not killed are Slaverjaw, The Basalt Watcher, the queen fairy in the peat bog, Grubdigger. and the two kliknics in NW Ant. He's ALSO done all of the level 10+ soloable quests and 14+ named (all that that I could find, at least) in Greater Faydark.You gain adventure xp FAR faster than you gain APs. I've spoken to folks who leveled naturally, by doing quests, without locking, and they've ended up at level 50 with less than 50 APs. I've been told, and I've read online, that you want around 90 at level 50. Rested XP, bonus from capped characters on accounts, bonus from being mentored, and double XP weekends only exacerbate the problem. The +55% XP potions are silly and unneeded now... I have every one of them sitting in my bank un-used. I would think that an excellent solution would be to put in a slider similar to the one found in EQ1. I, for one, would be happy to funnel half (or more) of my normal XP gain into APs. I'd even use those XP potions if I could do this! I don't like how fast it is to level, but I also don't enjoy locking my experience to make sure I get as many green named kills as possible. Yes, I want my progression to be slower, but I still want it to be progression.One other reason I'd like this idea is that I just returned to the game after 3 yrs absence. I was a questing fool. I did every quest and collection I could find, even if it was gray, just for the satisfaction of doing it. I am now being punished for my questing zealotry: I have a level 62 Conjuror and a level 52 Paladin, both of whom have done pretty much every quest they could find, BEFORE the AP system was added. At the moment, he's pretty useless (How many AAs you have? 3! NM then). It's not very efficient to go back and start in Ant, CL, TS, Nek, Zek, EL, LS, EF, or Feerrott, as the only quests to do there are the ones they've added since I left the game. So, I'm left with doing what quests I didn't finish in DF and KoS, and the lowbie stuff in EoF and RoK. Either way, I'm not going to be gaining much experience on either of those characters for a good while, as I'm going to be getting caught up on my APs. It would be nice to take what little XP I DO gain, and add it to those APs instead.NOTE: I am NOT asking for APs to be given to me for quests done before the AP system was added. I actually spoke AGAINST that idea when I was beta-testing KoS. What I WOULD like to see is a way to boost AP XP at the expense of normal XP, at least until I'm caught up.

Ashlian

05-13-2009, 08:00 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>More to my point though, I do not and will not repeat all these borring, unchallenging quests on all my toons. And if I don't have alting to fill my time between expansions, well SoE can just write me off as a subscriber. </blockquote>So you're not repeating anything if you havn't done them.. If you failed to do the quests when you were that tier, how can you expect to have maximum AA and expect to get 200 AA points just from doing the TSO lines... you havn't done the lower level stuff which would have put you at 172-180 AA before you even started TSO quest lines, and then you would easily hit 200 AA... the fact that you didnt do those quests to begin with was a /fail on your part... if you like grinding up, those are the consequences.. if you like doing collections to get from lvl 1-40 in 20 seconds then how can you complain that there is not enough high level content to get 200 AA's when you havn't done the low level content.You cant expect them to give you teh ability to just start in TSO and get all 200 AA's from that content.. If you did the low level stuff when you were that level, you'd be fine...I dont have 200 AA on my lvl 80's yet, but I've done all the TSO quest lines, except for a few instances, because i hate Instances.. but you dont see me complaining about it, because i know I have skipped hundreds of low level quests along the way and that was my choice at the time and now i can go back and do them and get 200 AA easily, i just dont want to at the moment.. but im not on here complaining about it, becuase it was MY CHOICE to skip them... The AA exp isnt broken, it works as intended, just like the GM's / Devs have said.. its the players who choose to skip that content and then complain about AA imbalance... its not imbalanced, you were just lazy and didnt want to do all the quests.If you were to tell me that you have completed every one of the lower level quests, or at least a vast vast majority of them, and the vast majority of named kills and still say you cant get enough AA doing TSO quest line after doing that, then i would call you a liar.. because if you do all the content, the AA xp is very balanced and very attainable</blockquote>Please....please explain to me how you plan on doing all the content in even one zone like Nektulos with the current xp bonuses, without level locking and turning quest xp off so that you don't outlevel the content. I was getting 8% per kill on my new alt over the weekend in Nektulos. That's 8% xp in an adventure level for yellow solo mobs. I've level locked her every two levels until she catches up in aa to at least her current level and I'm still doing every quest I can find at locked levels to get the aa to the point where I don't have to spend level 80 in hell going back to do grey content.We encourage new guildies with new characters who are starting out to level lock at least that much because it truly is a sad sight to see the difference between a level 80 with 100 aa, a level 80 with 140 aa, and a level 80 with 180+ aa. The advantage to those of us who played from KoS through now and have that extra aa on a toon is immeasurable. If you simply play the game up to 70 without level locking, you're either going to be sorely lacking in the aa to do current tier content, or you're going to be going back and doing a million grey quests that you outleveled so fast they sped by like road signs on a highway. ESPECIALLY if you have multiple level 80 toons. The increase to adventure xp without commensurate increase to aa xp is idiotic if the intent is to get people, particularly the elusive returning or brand new to EQ2 gamers, into endgame content in any kind of shape to handle it.I'd also point out yet again that the gain from killing used to be a significant part of aa gain once capped. Up until RoK, once you reached 70, the xp from simply going in and slaughtering through instances provided considerably more conversion into aa than the current curve. We're not asking for less solo content, we simply believe the curve should never have changed from the previous formula. One of the pleasures of playing an alt for me was always that I could go back and do quests I missed initially or visit zones I didn't tour when the game was new. That pleasure is completely gone if the lower level content is outleveled so quickly that I am forced to go back and do ten times as many quests on new toons to get aa when previously it was perfectly possible to do a nice mix of quests and heroic content and finish your aa's out on killing alone.I should not have to level lock and hit every quest in every zone available at that level for my new toons to keep up with my vet. Right now, we're seeing the guildies who do not level lock, and we're talking doing mainly the solo content you're extolling, reach level 80 with much less aa than we had when we reached level 80, because the xp curve for aa is so out of whack with the xp curve for level. Sure, I had an entire year to get from 100 to 140. I had a year or more to get from 50 to 100 too. You think the new players, returning players, or those of us playing alts will put up with taking the same amount of time to hit the current aa cap? The devs obviously realize that it's important to give people the chance to see endgame content within a reasonable amount of time of beginning play on a toon as the endgame gets farther from the start, thus the xp increases so that you level quickly. If you can't gain aa as quickly, there's no point to that system at all.

Ashlian

05-13-2009, 08:14 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOLZ.. there is your problem right there.. you have no idea what your talking about and therefore probably dont know how to utilize the stuff you are given.. Seeing as how if your capped out on AA you can kill Named mobs till your heart is content and you still get AA for them when the cap is raised... thnx for trying though, k thnx bubye....Next time you try to be a "smart alek" try hard to actually know what your talking about before hand... otherwise you jsut show how newb you ar. k thnx bubye...</blockquote>Ok then, if the above is the case then I suppose "you got me" in regards to achievement experience from Named mobs. Since I did however include the caveat of "the extrapolation could go on and on" I will simply say your statement is still ridiculous and everthing I said (while being a smart alec... if your going to insult me do it right) still applies... to quests and collections. Hopefully you have gotten your epic and mythical. Hopefully, you have already turned in the TSO relics of the ethernauts collection. Hopefully you have already completed any quest or collection that might offer a reward that you may need or want.</blockquote>If you have reached max AA and want an Item that is dropped by a collection, or that requires doing a long quest line to get... that is your choice to do or not do it... the potential for enough AA's is there, if you choose not to use it, then tuff beans... If you dont want to do HQs because they are too logn and the reward is too small, and you let them gray out, tuff beans.... that was your choice. The AA is there.People crying that "OMG i have to LOCK my xp to get all the AA"... I dont see why this is a big deal.. If you CHOOSE not to lock your character, seeing as they have given this option, then whose fault is it again that you skipped the content? You can go back and do it when the quests are gray, so there is no "outleveling" anymore, they have even given us that option... so they have combated the quick leveling with the locking of not only XP from kills but from quests as well, and allowed us to get AA from old gray quests as well... So the only content your truely "missing" is the named kills, which is lame that you dont get aa for gray named, and have to find someone in that level range to mentor, but thats the only problem i see as not being a "choice".. but then again, i can lock a toon at any given level and hunt named bosses until I have them all, unlock and move to the next round of named NPCs'... so again, a choice.So you see, SOE has given us all the options, if you choose not to use the options, how is that SOE's fault again? You want them to cater to EVERYONES playstyle ALL AT THE SAME TIME... You want SOE to make the game play for the 123,235 different play styles that one can think of... well they have, its your choice on how you play the game, they have given you all the options, if you CHOOSE to skip something and CHOOSE not to utilize the MULTIPLE different ways they have given to play the game, Whose fault is that again? Cuz it sure isnt Sonys..Again... if you want them to just give you a lvl 80 toon with 200 AA and mythcial and full set of TSO raid gear and Avatar loots.. just ask, they may do it for you... otherwise, CHOOSE to ignore the content they have provided and keep complaining over nothing like you keep doing.</blockquote>I missed this. The point is that it is pathetically sad that I have to do all the content in the game level locking all the way to reach the amount of aa's I should have to play endgame content effectively. You honestly, honestly believe that all of us who have more than one level 80 at this point should be required to go back and do all the grey solo quest content or that new players or toons should be required to level as slowly as we did initially in order to do the content when it's worth doing when every single thing the devs have done has been to encourage people to level so fast they hit endgame content in a few months at most? Why bother to put the xp bonus in when we have to turn all adventure, not to mention quest xp, off from leveling in order to have the aa we need when we hit 80?You can't tell me current tier content isn't designed with the 140 aa cap from the previous expansion in mind as the starter. Sure, it's possible to take people with less aa through them, but it makes as much difference as seeing someone attempt it with mastercrafted versus fabled gear. And that situation gives you a lot of people who require heroic effort on the part of groups at level 80 to sheperd them through the content until they get caught up on aa....if they even come close to getting caught up on aa once they realize they have to go back to low level stuff to cap their aa after they went to the trouble of capping their level. And in the end it is simply not fun at all, on either side, sheperd or sheep.

Noaani

05-13-2009, 08:39 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can go back and do it when the quests are gray</blockquote>Gray questing was one of the "all sorts of strange methods to get to 200aa that we never intended" that Aeralik mentioned in the thread where he said experiance conversion to achievement experiance was being increased.Fortunatly for the rest of us, it seems the developers do not agree with you.

Kordran

05-13-2009, 01:29 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can go back and do it when the quests are gray</blockquote>Gray questing was one of the "all sorts of strange methods to get to 200aa that we never intended" that Aeralik mentioned in the thread where he said experiance conversion to achievement experiance was being increased.Fortunatly for the rest of us, it seems the developers do not agree with you.</blockquote>Yup. When they enabled AXP for grey quests, it was so that players would still get the reward for a quest that they greyed out while leveling. What you have today is people going back and doing whole quest lines that they skipped in their 20s, 30s and 40s. That is certainly not "normal" gameplay by any stretch of the imagination.The should boost the XP conversion rate, and they should significantly increase the AXP awarded for doing group (not solo) missions. Ideally, I'd like to see them scale it so that you get additional AXP for doing the more challenging TSO instances, but I don't know how practical that is.

Xissu

05-14-2009, 11:03 AM

<cite>Kordran wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can go back and do it when the quests are gray</blockquote>Gray questing was one of the "all sorts of strange methods to get to 200aa that we never intended" that Aeralik mentioned in the thread where he said experiance conversion to achievement experiance was being increased.Fortunatly for the rest of us, it seems the developers do not agree with you.</blockquote>Yup. When they enabled AXP for grey quests, it was so that players would still get the reward for a quest that they greyed out while leveling. What you have today is people going back and doing whole quest lines that they skipped in their 20s, 30s and 40s. That is certainly not "normal" gameplay by any stretch of the imagination.The should boost the XP conversion rate, and they should significantly increase the AXP awarded for doing group (not solo) missions. Ideally, I'd like to see them scale it so that you get additional AXP for doing the more challenging TSO instances, but I don't know how practical that is.</blockquote>Ok, so a grey quest that is literally 67 levels out of date (13 to my 80) that involves me running into an area where the mobs are popping emaciate and running through and watching them wilt like flowers in the desert, then running back to turn in nets me 1% aa. Where as killing a epic X 4 named mob that i have previously killed say Nexona for example, takes several minutes, CONSIDERABLY more attention, skill, and time, nets no noticeable increase. If this is not an indication that something is not right I'm not really sure what would be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I too am VERY glad that the developers are addressing this issue soon. Oh as a side note, yes in KoS and EoF it was VERY possible to get to 70/50 and 70/100 aa by mass slaughter, not even heroic content honestly. Why do you think you saw so many pet classes parked in area's where a non overwhelming but still experience providing mob or mobs could attack them? Not saying it was right just letting you know that it was possible and it was done fairly frequently. Obviously prior to that doesn't really matter as there were no aa's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Point is that SOE weither they intended to or not designed a game where it was possible to max out aa's simply by adventuring with friends, running instances/dungeons or by killing tons more of solo mobs. They already DID cater to this playstyle for around 2 years (KoS and EoF), why all the sudden force all those people into one playstyle (SOLOQuest) in order to be competitive? And if it was as you say above "NEVER the intent", why let it go for 2 years before "correcting" it?

Sprin

05-15-2009, 01:37 PM

<cite></cite> Again, you guys keep saying.. I cant quest up without getting massive XP for it "UNLESS I LEVEL LOCK OR TURN OFF MY XP GAIN FROM QUESTS / KILLS"...Im not quite sure what your asking for.. the developers have given you EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE way to level up your toon the way you want to. If you CHOOSE to level up without locking (an option they give you so you can maximize the potential of your toon) you are making the choice to get more xp then aa..Someone said something about an XP slider bar.. so that AA can be gained at the expense of xp.. THERE IS ONE... its called turning off questing and kill xp... then you only get AA from quests and you dont get a lick of XP... again THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU THE TOOLS... if you CHOOSE not to use them, dont start throwing blame at them, throw it at yourself... I feel like a broken record mainly because you guys are all broken records... so i have to be one to get through..I've made hundreds of alts over the years.. I've made many since TSO came out and the changes to XP... i have 4 lvl 80 toons, which gives me 40 percent xp bonus, plus the double xp when its up...I CHOOSE to maximize the performance of my toon by locking my xp and quest, so that i can get maximum AA's for my toon at every level.. that is a CHOICE... you CHOOSE not to...Now could i go and complain that because i CHOSE to lock the quest and xp gain "Man devs, i really think you should make it so i could gain more xp... this is lame.. its really uneven, i gain so much more AA then XP... do something about it!!!"Thats essentially what you guys are doing.. you CHOOSE to not use the tools they give and then ask them to "fix" something that isnt broken....What you guys fail to comprehend at low tiers, is that you dont start getting AA until you've reached lvl 10, so your 10 levels behind the curve already.. but taht curve has been there since day one of AA... before recently, we didnt have a way to get more aa's then XP levels without killing yourself 40 times and 50 percent xp debt...That was a prime example of SONY not giving us the tools to do what we wanted... so what did they do? They gave us the tools, now you complain about that...You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH. Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote>

Sprin

05-15-2009, 01:42 PM

<cite></cite> <cite></cite> Again, you guys keep saying.. I cant quest up without getting massive XP for it "UNLESS I LEVEL LOCK OR TURN OFF MY XP GAIN FROM QUESTS / KILLS"...Im not quite sure what your asking for.. the developers have given you EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE way to level up your toon the way you want to. If you CHOOSE to level up without locking (an option they give you so you can maximize the potential of your toon) you are making the choice to get more xp then aa..Someone said something about an XP slider bar.. so that AA can be gained at the expense of xp.. THERE IS ONE... its called turning off questing and kill xp... then you only get AA from quests and you dont get a lick of XP... again THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU THE TOOLS... if you CHOOSE not to use them, dont start throwing blame at them, throw it at yourself... I feel like a broken record mainly because you guys are all broken records... so i have to be one to get through..I've made hundreds of alts over the years.. I've made many since TSO came out and the changes to XP... i have 4 lvl 80 toons, which gives me 40 percent xp bonus, plus the double xp when its up...I CHOOSE to maximize the performance of my toon by locking my xp and quest, so that i can get maximum AA's for my toon at every level.. that is a CHOICE... you CHOOSE not to...Now could i go and complain that because i CHOSE to lock the quest and xp gain "Man devs, i really think you should make it so i could gain more xp... this is lame.. its really uneven, i gain so much more AA then XP... do something about it!!!"Thats essentially what you guys are doing.. you CHOOSE to not use the tools they give and then ask them to "fix" something that isnt broken....What you guys fail to comprehend at low tiers, is that you dont start getting AA until you've reached lvl 10, so your 10 levels behind the curve already.. but taht curve has been there since day one of AA... before recently, we didnt have a way to get more aa's then XP levels without killing yourself 40 times and 50 percent xp debt...That was a prime example of SONY not giving us the tools to do what we wanted... so what did they do? They gave us the tools, now you complain about that...You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH.Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote>

Wigg

05-15-2009, 02:00 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>...You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH. Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote></blockquote>Talk about waking up on the wrong side of the bed.. wow. Actually, What we would all like from what i have read is for this to not turn into SOLOquest. I have a templar main. If you have one or know one, they will tell you we dont solo to well. Infact, we suck as soloing. No DPS and takes FOREVER to kill a mob. Solution to that is to group with my GFs wizzy and do some questing to get my AA. But what do i do when im here and she's not? Or vise versa? We both end up being on different quest lines and different areas of the quest lines we are on. It's impossible to get a group for questing that is actually benificial. If i wanted to go play by myself i would play Oblivion so i could avoid peoples drama in 1-9 chat. All i am asking for is more AA exp from shard zone quest or more AA exp for actually doing a herioc zone. I like to group but getting 5 to 6% AA per shard zone max is a bit low. And no im not saying hand me my epic or myth, i earned all 3 of mine, but all my characters were made on release. I missed KoS expansion's start and one of my other mains, my assassin, came back right before RoK to only having 2 AAs at lvl 50sh. I went crazy lvling him and and even betrayed him from a ranger to assassin TRYING to build AAs. Did everything i could possibly think of and now he is stuck at 166 with all the moors quest almost completed and every RoK zone quest done. I did my mentored down section before they added the "300% bonus" so i completely missed my shot at getting any named AA from RE, RoV, FG, Blackburrow, CB, and countless other zones i have already done. All i am asking is for a zone we can get good AA in that can be as hard as you want it but group required and will give the same AA every day we run it. I'm tired of solo content again. I'm supposed to be playing a MMO.

Yimway

05-15-2009, 06:37 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH. Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote></blockquote>Your attempt at sarcasm only further reinforces my viewpoint on quests.I gladly do quests the provide a reward I want. Up till RoK that was my qualification for doing ANY quest in game. Does this quest give me an item I would want to use? Does this quest provide me access to something I want to see?Quests that passed that test I did. Glad to do my signature quests, glad to do the heritages that apply to my class, glad to do dozens of other related quests that provide me with items I want to use.Questing as a means of character advancement is an entirely different notion.Lastly, I leave it with the same remark I've been using for a while now. I should not log in and be faced with the decision to do something challenging or do something to advance my character.I choose something challenging, others don't. I'm pleased to see rewards are being returned to my playstyle choice.

Xissu

05-16-2009, 01:02 AM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH.Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote></blockquote>Sorry lol, what I find funny is you keep posting about how we are whining and wanting them to change it, when actuality we just want it changed back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. As has been said already in this thread, tho apparently you missed the 5 or so posts about it or just read the parts that made your rant sound better, the developers at least in part agree. They ARE changing AAXP conversion at max level next GU, how much it will change we'll see but your "Broken Record" will have to go unheard for now, sorry.

Wigg

05-17-2009, 03:14 PM

I was adding this up with a friend last night who basically had the same arguement as you in the matter. He said it would make it too easy. Well, lets think about that. Most people (ok everyone) in order to get to 200 AA had to mentor down and repeat content they had already done but chance that their AA had been reset for that zone. Also, they have to pound in those grey quest lines just to get the minimal AA that is available for doing them. < This was NOT supposed to be how we achieved it according to GMs. I hate to solo. As i stated before if i wanted to solo i would not be playing an MMO. If you were to do shard zones every day you logged in, and lets say you were on 3 hours a day 5 days a week. Now at 170+ AAs (depending on when your character was made and AAs before expansion), you have probably done every shard zone atleast 1 time. At that AA range a character recieves 3-5% per shard zone. Now, granted you might get a new kill somewhere (Varsoon) a quest you havent completed and lets say its the DD you do everyday so you get that extra 4%. So we are looking at average 4% per zone + 4% for DD. Thats 12% per day @ 3 hours a day. Random quest that you might not have done (im through with RoK and almost done with moors at that point), lets add an additional 10% per week. Thats 70% you would get a week. At that rate it would take you 42 weeks to get from 170 to 200 AAs playing 15 hours a week (not even mentioning if some of that 3 hours a night was raid nights you are lucky to get 2%).All we are asking is it gets pushed back towards what it was for grouping. Stop punishing people for playing the game it is supposed to be played and stop making it towards solo content. (be honest... everyone who mentored down, did you have an alt you did it with just duo or did you actually go LFG for the zone and pug it)?

Saphirewind

05-19-2009, 06:10 AM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: More and more scripted encounters are being deployed that involved a specific detrimental effect as a key role in executing the script successfully. Is it possible to add a list of detrimental effects to dynamic data for the raidmember set? Just like for personal detrimental effects, but for each raid member? So we can make custom UI's that show mini flags for detrimentals on each raid member or UI's with specific flags for encounter significant detrimentals. The naga in ToMC is a prime example where identifying who is cursed with mark of the serpent vs the other trivial curse would be significantly beneficial to be able to report this via game ui. Instead your pushing us to hard requirements of 3rd party applications to provide the same data that really should be readily available from the client.A: This is a lot of extra data to add for 24 people and could impact performance on raids quite a bit. We are being very careful about doing anything that would hurt performance, so at the moment we have no plans to add this information. These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time.</blockquote>Em... Good luck with that encounter then. Let me know how it goes the healers cure everyone with the "Mark of the Serpent" curse on them. /failIn the example used (the Thet fight in ToMC) there is the posibility that one of two or both curses will be put on a player. One curse is required so that the players with this specific curse can target and attack the incoming adds, this is placed on four people at a time. The other curse, I honestly don't know what it does, that is how big of an impact it has on me for that fight but it looks like a screaming face and has a chance to be put on you whenever you do dmg to the mob. This means that in addition to the four people selected to kill adds there will be at least 2-3 other people with curses on them (based on the probability of the mobs buff to proc a curse on someone) at the time the needed curse is applied. The raid leader cannot discern by looking at the raid window who has the needed curse and who has the other one, and if everyone who has the the needed curse talks in voice/uses a shout macro that adds just one more thing that the raid leader has to look for and that can cause an error instead of being able to look at the raid window, see who is cursed and their class and say "You go to the bottom add. You, you, you go to the top adds." In short, there may be enough time to cure the curses, but there is not necessarily enough time (for some guilds/raid leaders) to figure out who has the needed curse on them, decide who to send to what add (since some people may be better suited to top or bottom adds depending on their DPS and survivability), and for those raid members to get to and intercept their assigned add before it paths through the floor/wall (so you can't see it) to the pool of water, then jumps up to the main mob which results in an instant raid-wiping AE. If you can't do something so that players can tell the curses apart, why not just change one of them to; oh, I don't know... Something other than a curse? I mean if the needed thing was the curse, and the other effect was like an elemental effect or something that would make a world of difference, it isn't like people try to cure the non required curse anyway and you are already curing nox from the poison effect AE. Anyway, something to think about while the pathing of mobs in some of these zones is improved upon. (Hint: It took 1min 30s for the first named in AoB to get to the group from his spawn point when I was in there last night. Even when he got to us, we couldn't reach him because he was stuck in the roof or something and the conj pet ended up killing him. >.&lt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xissu

05-19-2009, 12:42 PM

<cite>Saphirewind@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: More and more scripted encounters are being deployed that involved a specific detrimental effect as a key role in executing the script successfully. Is it possible to add a list of detrimental effects to dynamic data for the raidmember set? Just like for personal detrimental effects, but for each raid member? So we can make custom UI's that show mini flags for detrimentals on each raid member or UI's with specific flags for encounter significant detrimentals. The naga in ToMC is a prime example where identifying who is cursed with mark of the serpent vs the other trivial curse would be significantly beneficial to be able to report this via game ui. Instead your pushing us to hard requirements of 3rd party applications to provide the same data that really should be readily available from the client.A: This is a lot of extra data to add for 24 people and could impact performance on raids quite a bit. We are being very careful about doing anything that would hurt performance, so at the moment we have no plans to add this information. These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time.</blockquote>Em... Good luck with that encounter then. Let me know how it goes the healers cure everyone with the "Mark of the Serpent" curse on them. /failIn the example used (the Thet fight in ToMC) there is the posibility that one of two or both curses will be put on a player. One curse is required so that the players with this specific curse can target and attack the incoming adds, this is placed on four people at a time. The other curse, I honestly don't know what it does, that is how big of an impact it has on me for that fight but it looks like a screaming face and has a chance to be put on you whenever you do dmg to the mob. This means that in addition to the four people selected to kill adds there will be at least 2-3 other people with curses on them (based on the probability of the mobs buff to proc a curse on someone) at the time the needed curse is applied. The raid leader cannot discern by looking at the raid window who has the needed curse and who has the other one, and if everyone who has the the needed curse talks in voice/uses a shout macro that adds just one more thing that the raid leader has to look for and that can cause an error instead of being able to look at the raid window, see who is cursed and their class and say "You go to the bottom add. You, you, you go to the top adds." In short, there may be enough time to cure the curses, but there is not necessarily enough time (for some guilds/raid leaders) to figure out who has the needed curse on them, decide who to send to what add (since some people may be better suited to top or bottom adds depending on their DPS and survivability), and for those raid members to get to and intercept their assigned add before it paths through the floor/wall (so you can't see it) to the pool of water, then jumps up to the main mob which results in an instant raid-wiping AE. If you can't do something so that players can tell the curses apart, why not just change one of them to; oh, I don't know... Something other than a curse? I mean if the needed thing was the curse, and the other effect was like an elemental effect or something that would make a world of difference, it isn't like people try to cure the non required curse anyway and you are already curing nox from the poison effect AE. Anyway, something to think about while the pathing of mobs in some of these zones is improved upon. (Hint: It took 1min 30s for the first named in AoB to get to the group from his spawn point when I was in there last night. Even when he got to us, we couldn't reach him because he was stuck in the roof or something and the conj pet ended up killing him. >.<<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The game already does recieve the info in the form of parseable effect emotes, ACT does offer a plug in that tracks these specific emotes as long as you are in range to "hear" them. That being said the fight is quite doable even with out that, it simply requires communication, like pretty much all harder content. Oh and as far as I know the other "trivial" curse is pretty much that, trivial. I forget the exact effect but I don't think our raid has ever wiped because it wasn't cured. Infact because you point blank NEED the other curse, curing any curses in this encounter seems rather fool hardy.

Sprin

05-19-2009, 01:23 PM

<cite>Xissu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH.Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote></blockquote>Sorry lol, what I find funny is you keep posting about how we are whining and wanting them to change it, when actuality we just want it changed back <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />. As has been said already in this thread, tho apparently you missed the 5 or so posts about it or just read the parts that made your rant sound better, the developers at least in part agree. They ARE changing AAXP conversion at max level next GU, how much it will change we'll see but your "Broken Record" will have to go unheard for now, sorry.</blockquote>Oh i heard you alright, you want them to change it back to where you could kill 300,000 chickenturkeys and get all the aa your heart desired... you want to be able to do "what you want" and "how you want to play the game" and SOE shouldn't be able to "force you to play a certain way"... you want everything for free and want rewards that you dont deserve / earn... Oh I've heard you, and you can try to backpedal all you want, but the fact remains you want what you havn't earned and you want sony to give it to you "or else"... just go play WOW tbh

Sprin

05-19-2009, 01:50 PM

<cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you were to do shard zones every day you logged in, and lets say you were on 3 hours a day 5 days a week.............All we are asking is it gets pushed back towards what it was for grouping. Stop punishing people for playing the game it is supposed to be played and stop making it towards solo content. (be honest... everyone who mentored down, did you have an alt you did it with just duo or did you actually go LFG for the zone and pug it)?</blockquote>LOLZ.. this is what im talking about, you guys dont even know what your whining about, you just want to whine for the sake of whining.. you say.. It takes 300 TSO zones to get AA, then in the same breath you say, stop making it towards solo content... so what exactly is "solo" about TSO zones?... this expansion is so group based its lame..... And in the same breath yet you say how you have to mentor down to get the gray quests.. what year are you in again?No wonder Sony doesnt respond to these "requests" becuase they are a hodgepodge of nonsensical sentences put together with 4 different and opposing "requests" in one place..."I want more group content but it takes too much group content so i want solo content, but why did you make it so solo content oriented, i wan less solo, but more solo, and want less group but with more group stuff.."[Removed for Content]...

Saphirewind

05-20-2009, 02:42 AM

<cite>Xissu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Saphirewind@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Q: More and more scripted encounters are being deployed that involved a specific detrimental effect as a key role in executing the script successfully. Is it possible to add a list of detrimental effects to dynamic data for the raidmember set? Just like for personal detrimental effects, but for each raid member? So we can make custom UI's that show mini flags for detrimentals on each raid member or UI's with specific flags for encounter significant detrimentals. The naga in ToMC is a prime example where identifying who is cursed with mark of the serpent vs the other trivial curse would be significantly beneficial to be able to report this via game ui. Instead your pushing us to hard requirements of 3rd party applications to provide the same data that really should be readily available from the client.A: This is a lot of extra data to add for 24 people and could impact performance on raids quite a bit. We are being very careful about doing anything that would hurt performance, so at the moment we have no plans to add this information. These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time.</blockquote>Em... Good luck with that encounter then. Let me know how it goes the healers cure everyone with the "Mark of the Serpent" curse on them. /failIn the example used (the Thet fight in ToMC) there is the posibility that one of two or both curses will be put on a player. One curse is required so that the players with this specific curse can target and attack the incoming adds, this is placed on four people at a time. The other curse, I honestly don't know what it does, that is how big of an impact it has on me for that fight but it looks like a screaming face and has a chance to be put on you whenever you do dmg to the mob. This means that in addition to the four people selected to kill adds there will be at least 2-3 other people with curses on them (based on the probability of the mobs buff to proc a curse on someone) at the time the needed curse is applied. The raid leader cannot discern by looking at the raid window who has the needed curse and who has the other one, and if everyone who has the the needed curse talks in voice/uses a shout macro that adds just one more thing that the raid leader has to look for and that can cause an error instead of being able to look at the raid window, see who is cursed and their class and say "You go to the bottom add. You, you, you go to the top adds." In short, there may be enough time to cure the curses, but there is not necessarily enough time (for some guilds/raid leaders) to figure out who has the needed curse on them, decide who to send to what add (since some people may be better suited to top or bottom adds depending on their DPS and survivability), and for those raid members to get to and intercept their assigned add before it paths through the floor/wall (so you can't see it) to the pool of water, then jumps up to the main mob which results in an instant raid-wiping AE. If you can't do something so that players can tell the curses apart, why not just change one of them to; oh, I don't know... Something other than a curse? I mean if the needed thing was the curse, and the other effect was like an elemental effect or something that would make a world of difference, it isn't like people try to cure the non required curse anyway and you are already curing nox from the poison effect AE. Anyway, something to think about while the pathing of mobs in some of these zones is improved upon. (Hint: It took 1min 30s for the first named in AoB to get to the group from his spawn point when I was in there last night. Even when he got to us, we couldn't reach him because he was stuck in the roof or something and the conj pet ended up killing him. >.<<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The game already does recieve the info in the form of parseable effect emotes, ACT does offer a plug in that tracks these specific emotes as long as you are in range to "hear" them. That being said the fight is quite doable even with out that, it simply requires communication, like pretty much all harder content. Oh and as far as I know the other "trivial" curse is pretty much that, trivial. I forget the exact effect but I don't think our raid has ever wiped because it wasn't cured. Infact because you point blank NEED the other curse, curing any curses in this encounter seems rather fool hardy.</blockquote>Yeah, my guild has 3 people running ACT and that plug-in so that no one is out of range of someone with the plugin. We have killed that mob before, but between not having a static 24 person raid force and all of our MT healers getting called to adds at least once during the fight the ease of being able to just look at the raid window and instantly know who had the needed curse would be nice. And as for curing the curses, we don't either; infact out healers are directed specificly NOT to cure any curses that fight. I just find it amusing that a Dev's response given to a question using the Thet fight as an example would say "These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time." when you need the curse on you to successfully complete the encounter and to me shows the outstanding care and amount of time spent on the information recieved through communication with their players.

Yimway

05-20-2009, 11:51 AM

<cite>Saphirewind@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, my guild has 3 people running ACT and that plug-in so that no one is out of range of someone with the plugin. We have killed that mob before, but between not having a static 24 person raid force and all of our MT healers getting called to adds at least once during the fight the ease of being able to just look at the raid window and instantly know who had the needed curse would be nice. And as for curing the curses, we don't either; infact out healers are directed specificly NOT to cure any curses that fight. I just find it amusing that a Dev's response given to a question using the Thet fight as an example would say "These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time." when you need the curse on you to successfully complete the encounter and to me shows the outstanding care and amount of time spent on the information recieved through communication with their players.</blockquote>In my opinion its just bad game design to make pivotable reaction based effects and not provide the client with the data needed for the ui to parse the pivotable information from the volumes of noise bits of information.So, the answer is, they expect us to use real time log parsing to play.Which is what we end up doing, but I asked the orriginal question in an effort to get a better designed client. The answer was, its too hard or it will cause too much data to need to be sent to the client. I feel thats a bit of a cop-out and there are creative ways to make this happen.Maintaining an array for 24 people x 6 detrimental effects is NOT a tremendous amount of data to sync with the client.

Saphirewind

05-20-2009, 10:05 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Saphirewind@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, my guild has 3 people running ACT and that plug-in so that no one is out of range of someone with the plugin. We have killed that mob before, but between not having a static 24 person raid force and all of our MT healers getting called to adds at least once during the fight the ease of being able to just look at the raid window and instantly know who had the needed curse would be nice. And as for curing the curses, we don't either; infact out healers are directed specificly NOT to cure any curses that fight. I just find it amusing that a Dev's response given to a question using the Thet fight as an example would say "These encounters are designed so that there is enough time for a player to communicate their detriment to the rest of the raid and still receive a cure in time." when you need the curse on you to successfully complete the encounter and to me shows the outstanding care and amount of time spent on the information recieved through communication with their players.</blockquote>In my opinion its just bad game design to make pivotable reaction based effects and not provide the client with the data needed for the ui to parse the pivotable information from the volumes of noise bits of information.So, the answer is, they expect us to use real time log parsing to play.Which is what we end up doing, but I asked the orriginal question in an effort to get a better designed client. The answer was, its too hard or it will cause too much data to need to be sent to the client. I feel thats a bit of a cop-out and there are creative ways to make this happen.Maintaining an array for 24 people x 6 detrimental effects is NOT a tremendous amount of data to sync with the client.</blockquote>IMO, it really shouldn't be difficult at all really since it is something they output anyway since the parser can pick it up.

Yimway

05-20-2009, 10:26 PM

<cite>Saphirewind@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maintaining an array for 24 people x 6 detrimental effects is NOT a tremendous amount of data to sync with the client.</blockquote>IMO, it really shouldn't be difficult at all really since it is something they output anyway since the parser can pick it up.</blockquote>It's a bit more complicated as the parser can only pick it up if the raidmember is in range. Where the raid window communicates information zone wide. You'll see this when the plugin fails to recognize one or more of the affected people.But still, we're talking about 24x6x32bit of information that needs syncing. If only changes to that array are communicated, the amount of data drops off significantly. If you limit the updates to once per second vs every frame, the data gets rediculously small.

Wigg

05-25-2009, 03:10 PM

<cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you were to do shard zones every day you logged in, and lets say you were on 3 hours a day 5 days a week.............All we are asking is it gets pushed back towards what it was for grouping. Stop punishing people for playing the game it is supposed to be played and stop making it towards solo content. (be honest... everyone who mentored down, did you have an alt you did it with just duo or did you actually go LFG for the zone and pug it)?</blockquote>LOLZ.. this is what im talking about, you guys dont even know what your whining about, you just want to whine for the sake of whining.. you say.. It takes 300 TSO zones to get AA, then in the same breath you say, stop making it towards solo content... so what exactly is "solo" about TSO zones?... this expansion is so group based its lame..... And in the same breath yet you say how you have to mentor down to get the gray quests.. what year are you in again?No wonder Sony doesnt respond to these "requests" becuase they are a hodgepodge of nonsensical sentences put together with 4 different and opposing "requests" in one place..."I want more group content but it takes too much group content so i want solo content, but why did you make it so solo content oriented, i wan less solo, but more solo, and want less group but with more group stuff.."[Removed for Content]... </blockquote>We were talking about increasing the AA rewards for group content... when did i ever ask for more solo content?"It takes 300 TSO zones to get AA, then in the same breath you say, stop making it towards solo content"Are you on drugs? TSO zones arent solo content, that would be group content. 30 hours of grouping for 1 AA isnt exactly what i would call "the greatest" for AA."And in the same breath yet you say how you have to mentor down to get the gray quests.. what year are you in again?"Uh, yeah, trying to explain the "spring cleaning" of grey quest giving AA has gone a bit overboard to "find every quest you can even if it means doing a lvl 11 quest at 80 for AA." We were discussing back playing content and how getting AAs is geared towards solo not grouping. "I want more group content but it takes too much group content so i want solo content, but why did you make it so solo content oriented, i wan less solo, but more solo, and want less group but with more group stuff.."You should definantly go back and read the post when you arent stoned.

Sprin

05-26-2009, 01:43 PM

<cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you were to do shard zones every day you logged in, and lets say you were on 3 hours a day 5 days a week.............All we are asking is it gets pushed back towards what it was for grouping. Stop punishing people for playing the game it is supposed to be played and stop making it towards solo content. (be honest... everyone who mentored down, did you have an alt you did it with just duo or did you actually go LFG for the zone and pug it)?</blockquote>LOLZ.. this is what im talking about, you guys dont even know what your whining about, you just want to whine for the sake of whining.. you say.. It takes 300 TSO zones to get AA, then in the same breath you say, stop making it towards solo content... so what exactly is "solo" about TSO zones?... this expansion is so group based its lame..... And in the same breath yet you say how you have to mentor down to get the gray quests.. what year are you in again?No wonder Sony doesnt respond to these "requests" becuase they are a hodgepodge of nonsensical sentences put together with 4 different and opposing "requests" in one place..."I want more group content but it takes too much group content so i want solo content, but why did you make it so solo content oriented, i wan less solo, but more solo, and want less group but with more group stuff.."[Removed for Content]... </blockquote>We were talking about increasing the AA rewards for group content... when did i ever ask for more solo content?"you say.. It takes 300 TSO zones to get AA, then in the same breath you say, stop making it towards solo content... what exactly is "solo" about TSO zones?... this expansion is so group based its lame..... "Are you on drugs? TSO zones arent solo content, that would be group content. 30 hours of grouping for 1 AA isnt exactly what i would call "the greatest" for AA.</blockquote>There fixed your quotes of me to show that you said EXACTLY what i was saying, except you decided to quote only the parts of what i said that made it look like i was saying something different then you. Nice try but epic /fail.Then i highlited what YOU wrote, that contradicted what you just said when you MIS-quoted me to make yourself look like you were tring to be smart. You asked them to "stop making it toward solo content" in the same breath as when you complained that the only way to get AA is group content. So which is it? the only way to get AA is group or is the game too solo oriented? You have confused yourself... perhaps this will helpAgain, this odl "gray" content that you say "is the only way to get AA" wouldnt be available to you if you hadn't CHOSEN to skip it when you were that level. Choices Choices Choices. SOE gave them to you, and you CHOSE to ignore them and level straight up to 80 without playing the game... now your mad that you cant get AA without having played the game?!? So you want them to just GIVE you AA for having paid the $$$ per month? Is that it? Thats what your sayingYou're saying. "Yes SOE, I CHOSE to skip content, and now i have to solo old quests to get AA, please just give me the AA i WOULD have gotten if i had CHOSEN to actually do those quests"

bks6721

06-10-2009, 04:32 PM

bks6721

06-10-2009, 04:41 PM

<cite>Wraths wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>...You guys want them to change every rule the game has ever been based upon and make it so you can sit and kill 10 trillion "small billygoats" and hit the "I WIN" button and have full TSO armor, mythical, 200 AA and every piece of avatar loot. You make choices based on the plethora of options the game has.. If you CHOOSE not to raid, you wont get your mythical.. dont ask them to give you a mythical from killing 200 million more billygoats in Antonica.... The reward system is based on what you do, if you dont do things you cant get things.. so stop asking TBH.. it sounds pathetic...<cite>EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear Sony,I know there is this whole "Epic weapon questline" available to me, and you've given me the option of getting a really good weapon, but you make me do all these "quests" and i really just like to kill billygoats to get it. Then after that, i want my Mythical, but you make me "raid" and do things i dont like to do, i just like to kill billgoats TBH. Please make it so that I can just play the way I CHOOSE to play (IE, kill 10 trillion billygoats and get everything in the game) and get the same rewards that people who follow the rules and are using the tools given to them by you. KK thnx bye SOE.</blockquote></blockquote>Talk about waking up on the wrong side of the bed.. wow. Actually, What we would all like from what i have read is for this to not turn into SOLOquest. I have a templar main. If you have one or know one, they will tell you we dont solo to well. Infact, we suck as soloing. No DPS and takes FOREVER to kill a mob. Solution to that is to group with my GFs wizzy and do some questing to get my AA. But what do i do when im here and she's not? Or vise versa? We both end up being on different quest lines and different areas of the quest lines we are on. It's impossible to get a group for questing that is actually benificial. If i wanted to go play by myself i would play Oblivion so i could avoid peoples drama in 1-9 chat. All i am asking for is more AA exp from shard zone quest or more AA exp for actually doing a herioc zone. I like to group but getting 5 to 6% AA per shard zone max is a bit low. And no im not saying hand me my epic or myth, i earned all 3 of mine, but all my characters were made on release. I missed KoS expansion's start and one of my other mains, my assassin, came back right before RoK to only having 2 AAs at lvl 50sh. I went crazy lvling him and and even betrayed him from a ranger to assassin TRYING to build AAs. Did everything i could possibly think of and now he is stuck at 166 with all the moors quest almost completed and every RoK zone quest done. I did my mentored down section before they added the "300% bonus" so i completely missed my shot at getting any named AA from RE, RoV, FG, Blackburrow, CB, and countless other zones i have already done. All i am asking is for a zone we can get good AA in that can be as hard as you want it but group required and will give the same AA every day we run it. I'm tired of solo content again. I'm supposed to be playing a MMO.</blockquote>No.. what you are asking for is 200aa. If you had 200aa right now, what would you do until the next expansion. Everyone argues about "progressing their character".. Well, if you are capped 1 month into an expansion what will you do for the next 11 months?Focus on playing the game and having fun, not the number on your aa xp bar.