The Myrist reborn Project's report on "The Void" and "Discord" Please read :) [Archive]

View Full Version : The Myrist reborn Project's report on "The Void" and "Discord" Please read :)

Giraku

05-03-2009, 05:56 AM

Hello everyone! Today I bring before the various historians and lorenuts of Norrath a set of evidence and connections and theorys that myself and my partner in this Gannor of Lucan Delere server, have found to fit very well together, and may grant us insight into the world of Norrath, past and present. We will show you here the eveidence we have found and our theorys that acompany what it is we have found. Thank you for reading and I do hope you enjoy! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Firstly let us examine what Discord is. Discord, in the EQ 1 Timeline, is the source of the void invasion as Gannor has told me. Under the command of an unidentified "Dark God", a Demon General by the name of Mata Muram attacked Norrath. His power held together many shards of conquered worlds as his own Plane of Discord. However, he was killed. Such an immense amountof power could have been the anchor that held it all together and his desctruction could have resulted in the plane of discord's break down. Slowly causeing it begin to drift towards the infamous blackhole we see now.Now we have found several peices of evidence to support this. Take, first off this : "Discordian Tower - Citadel of the Worldslayer." <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery2/discord-tower.jpg">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sce...scord-tower.jpg</a>This tower greatly resembles the Palace of the Ancient one. However, our assumption is that in the destruction of the plane of discord, it would have been damaged and rebuilt to accomidate...another guest. Resulting what we see now.Secondly, the Riftseekers portals which lead to Norrath in their invasion: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery2/discord-portal.jpg">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sce...cord-portal.jpg</a>This Greatly resembles a newer, ver. of the portals we come into, and leave the void zones from. It is also potentially a prototype for the ones we see now, which if I recall, Varsoon helped construct. Is it possible he did not build it by his design alone, and mabye had an example to work from?It is also known that the Riftseekers were not wiped out, and we do not know what happened to them. It is also certain they were far stronger than Mata knew.Our next peice of evidence comes not from a screenshot, but from the lore of Seeds of Destruction: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=14996">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sto...tml?story=14996</a>It says that a Dark God was infuriated by Mata's failure. This being the Void, only two "gods" were sent there. Anashti, and Theer, and while Theer is an avatar, he would not have trouble convincing people within a place such as the Void that he was a god in his own right as the corruption took his mind. That said, he also would have had alot of time to administer a ruleing of the void between his banishment and the time of Anashti.'s banishment.Looking again to seeds of destruction, we see it says this god while looking at the modern Norrath found the tear that seperates EQ2 from EQ1, and exploited it. By this time the Void may well be close to what we see of it now, and the dark god we assume to be the now corrupted Theer, finds other such weaknesses throughout time. and decides to send his forces to this places to throw the tide of major events in history.Please bare in mind the rift between our time and EQ1's as I explain the next peice of evidence. The time of the Ethernauts was before both EQ1 and EQ2. Bayle as we know, was raised in Oceangreen and caused the first portal to open, however, at some point between his opening and his return with the other Ethernauts in an attempt to sway the Plainsmen, we find one of Seeds of Sestruction's maiin points.: Oceangreen: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=15139">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sto...tml?story=15139</a>However players from EQ1 did stop this, but it is our belife that Bayle's first portal, left a marker on Oceangreen which drew Theers eye in this exspantion. Granted it is a Time Paradox that it both happened and did not happen, but it ties Discord/The Void to our timeline as well. We also know now that Theer is the one truely opperating behind the scene's of the Void, and it's attacks. Which ties into both EQ1 and EQ2 if he is indeed the "Dark god".Why some have asked does Theer want to wipe out Norrath, well if we belive him to be the "Dark god" we see the answer clearly. With the void's Corruption upon his mind, all Theer would come to know was plans of Revenge for throwing him to the Void in the first place. This of course being long before EQ1 or EQ2. So by commanding the EQ1 rendition of the void,and failing. Useing the weak spots in time's weave caused by the timeline split to throw Norrath off to it's destruction and nearly succeeding, only once more to be defeated. He would be left with a crumbling Void, few options left, and a plan within our timeline to finish the job. Which is, what we have seen since launch, and what ever is to come.I do hope you have enjoied this read. Gannor and myself put alot of hard thought and digging to this, please feel free to post comments and replies, (Which I know will happen anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )) and we can discuss it, especially if you know something we missed, but please, do not flame anyone here, we apperiate it. =)---Gezrn Stonescale---Gannor P'Artak(This presentation brought to you by The Myrist Reborn Project, a rag-tag troupe of History-minded individuals working together to think-tank clues to the hidden hand of time, weaving a path to align the History we know... with the History unseen! Any interested or insightful individuals may send me a private message, we're eager to find like minds or just thoughtful responces! Have a great day, Norrath!)

Xalmat

05-03-2009, 02:51 PM

All of this occurs post-timeline split, and probably has little to nothing to do with EQ2 I'm afraid.

Giraku

05-03-2009, 03:24 PM

True, but that is the thing with Time Paradoxs. If he did indeed use Bayle's portal as a marker for his going there in Seeds, then it would have an effect as it was Pre EQ1 and Pre Split No?Time Paradox's are also known to produce heavy thinking and headaches with looping concepts LOL

therodge

05-03-2009, 04:37 PM

<cite>Gezrn@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>True, but that is the thing with Time Paradoxs. If he did indeed use Bayle's portal as a marker for his going there in Seeds, then it would have an effect as it was Pre EQ1 and Pre Split No?Time Paradox's are also known to produce heavy thinking and headaches with looping concepts LOL</blockquote>/sigh ok listen the timesplit is a device that devs used to explain the diffrence between eq2 and eq1 it isnt really a time split they have semi tryed to incorperate into lore but the fact is it simply doesent exsist as people would like to see it anything that happened in eq1 any lore revealed even if the lore in question relates to things that happened pre time split doesent exsist till said otherwise

Cusashorn

05-03-2009, 08:10 PM

Yeah the truth is that between Everquest and Everquest 2, there are actually two completely different voids that only exist in each game. In EQlive, the Legion of Mata Muram exists and is the cause of the end of the world.In EQ2, they don't exist, and the shadowmen do instead. That's that.

teddyboy4

05-04-2009, 01:05 PM

Very interesting theory-crafting going on there, but there is one key element you are misunderstanding here...you are assuming that the Void/Discord are "outside" of the timesplit and were not affected by it, meaning there is only one Void and it is constant, therefore the powers in the Void/Discord are able to see the aftermath of the split, and take advantage of it for their own gains. While really, they were probably "inside" the timesplit and are as unaware that it ever occured as everyone else, meaning that there are two seperate Voids/Discords, one on the EQ timeline, and one on EQ2s, just like everything else.So I have to agree w/ Cusa on this one:<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah the truth is that between Everquest and Everquest 2, there are actually two completely different voids that only exist in each game. In EQlive, the Legion of Mata Muram exists and is the cause of the end of the world.In EQ2, they don't exist, and the shadowmen do instead. That's that.</blockquote>All this being said, it's nice to think of the events in the Time of Plane that split the timelines/universes of EQ and EQ2 as a physical event that occured and can, will, and is referencable by certain beings "in univerese" that may be aware of it, but really, when it comes right down to it, it is treated as simply a split that allows both games to go on without affecting each other (unless the devs specifically want something to), and all inhabitants, in both universes are unaware it ever happened, and will never find out it happened. It's just "one of those things" that, while it is a major part of the lore, it really isn't....

Greyquill

05-05-2009, 04:45 AM

As disappointing as it is to say, I have to agree with the nay-sayers here. The Devs fabricated the "alternate time line" explanation to cover any shifted, misplaced, and ret-conned lore involved in progressing two seperate games taking place on the same planet. However, I find the idea of an influence operating outside of the time split an extremely interesting plot device if it were to be used... and used properly. Some hypotheticals to mull over...1) The Void does exist outside of time. It certainly provides an explaination as to how you could possibly have the conversation that takes place between you and the Ethernauts within the Palace of Ferzhul. Though one of them, I can't quite remember which, mentions that they've been "waiting a long time" for someone to come. Either way, time seems to not touch the Void in quite the same way it does everywhere else. Perhaps Anashti's return to Norrath was simply a ploy to distract Norrath from the Void's greatest threat... a returned Theer. A ploy that began as an act of calculated desperation on behalf of the now clearly insane Avatar (offering to assist the original Prime Healer with her vengence against Rodcet must have hurt his pride a little) after this same "Dark God" failed to achieve his goal by force of arms through Mata Muram's legions.2) The Gods of Power and Influence are agents acting outside the normal flow of time. The whole split was the brainchild of the Demi-goddess of Magic in the first place. I find it hard to believe she would've been subjected to the effects of her own spell. Also consider this excerpt from the Tome of Destiny:"Quellious had listened to the bickering for what seemed like ages. Though time had no meaning for them in this place, she could bear to listen no longer. She spoke softly, yet with a directness that silenced the others."Who's to say the Gods aren't presiding over two Norraths with it being a serious drain on power and influence to be active in both at the same time? This might handily explain some notable absences in the "returned" pantheon. Those gods unable to show themselves in EQ2 may not have rebuilt enough power to extend influence into the divergent timeline. Also from the Tome of Destiny:"Quellious continued. "We all agree the mortals have gained too much power, but there are non-destructive ways to correct this. There is also a way for us to regain our strength, though it means removing our influence from this world for a time."Just something to ponder and I applaud the OP for thinking outside the box. Those really are some interesting theories.

Meirril

05-05-2009, 09:24 AM

It doesn't make any sense. If Theer was the force directing Mata Muram and there was only a time shift between the EQ1 and EQ2 worlds, then Theer would have knowledge of a portal between Discord and Norrath. Going with the OP's premise that Discord *is* The Void would mean that in EQ2 Theer would have knowledge of an unguarded portal from the Void to Norrath and could have his shadowmen agents work on opening it from our side. He would have no use for Anashti at all.Discord was a common belief in EQ1. The Void was only known as the place where the Nameless exists. It makes no sense for the two of them to be the same plane of existance. Though, refrences to discord are notibly absent in EQ2.What would make more sense is that Theer believes the gods of Norrath have overstepped their authority and is seeking to comply with his origional mandate. They all banned together to get rid of him, so he will eliminate them all. The most efficient method of doing this would be to eliminate Norrath apparently.The absence of the gods may have given Theer an opportunity to use Anashti to create a pathway from the Void to Norrath. Simply put, with no gods of influence active on Norrath it might of been possible not only for Mortals to seek godhood (see Lucan, Queen Thex, Veniril) but also for a banished god to assume her former position *if* enough people were made aware of her existance. Everling certainly helped with that, and there is good evidence to suppose that Everling is being manipulated by forces in the Void.If a promise to aid in Anashti's "revenge" is enough to get her cooperation it might as well be given. After all, it seems like Theer will probably kill ALL the gods anyways. Why not dedicate that one to his cellmate before he kills her too?There isn't any reason to spare her in the end. She's just as guilty as any other god. Theer might not go after the elemental gods, but he certainly will go after the gods of influence one and all.

Saroc_Luclin

05-05-2009, 10:27 AM

Much as I love to connect post PoP events between the games, I doubt that the Voids are connected.The EQ1 Void is literally the end of time, or at least Post-Norrath time. Solis has exploded, as have the planets, leaving asteroids floating around the swollen remains of the star, along with the remnants of the Gods and their Planes, and Veeshan herself. (And Zeb floating on an isolated asteroid with a tree whose roots stretch back through time, providing the portals we use to help "Make things right."). As you disrupt the Discordian invasion through time, the damage is slowly repaired, Solis going back to its normal self, the God artifacts disappearing (assumingly meaning they survive), and the planets reforming.So in any case, EQ1 Void is a different beast from the EQII Void.That said, I still think there could be a link between Discord and the EQII void, considering their invasion styles seem so similar. The fostering of chaos, the replacement/infiltration of their forces in key positions, all towards the eventual goal of taking over a world and more or less 'strip mining' it for all its worth (biological, magical, mineral and anything else). If anything Korafax is probably closer to the EQII Voids, since that's a Discordian stronghold on a world in its final stages of Discordian takeover.As for what the Discordians do to people they capture, here's the dialogue from the Dishevealed human at the entrance to Korafax:"You say, 'Hail, a disheveled human'a disheveled human says 'Please, no more! I can't take any more! Just let me die. Let me kill [them] too. It's just too much.' His voice gets weaker as he speaks until he can no longer be heard, but his lips keep moving and tears continue to stream down his face. 'Too much.'You say, 'Them?'a disheveled human says 'So many [others], so much pain. Some break too easily and die. Some never break and they die too. Some of us. . . some of us hold on long enough to be worthy, but not so long that their twisted magic can't do its work. All I can see is their bodies writhing in pain. All I can hear is their screams. But the worst is the smell. Please, please kill me. Don't take me back in there.'You say, 'Others?'a disheveled human says 'I, I don't know anything about them. We never had the strength to speak to each other.' He looks up at you, his mouth forming words as if pleading silently. 'You, you can't be real. It's another madness dream. That's how they get to you. They twist your body until the mind conforms. Once they match, twisted and scarred body and demented mind, then they seal it with magic. Convert enough and the rest are easy for them to change. Not easier on their victims, no never that, but it is faster. Fewer [mistakes].' He starts to shiver uncontrollably. 'Oh, the mistakes.'You say, 'Mistakes?'a disheveled human says 'I can't, I just can't talk about that. They die. Usually they die.' He once again looks you in the eyes and seems to gather strength from something he sees there. 'If you are not a delusion, if you are real. But then, you can't be.' He looks back at his feet. 'If only someone could stop them. [Escape] doesn't work. It must be death. If you aren't here to kill them, then kill the prisoners.'You say, 'Escape?'a disheveled human says 'Heh. Ha!' He looks up at you, mania present in his eyes. 'Look! I'm free! Trapped here in this darkness. I can't sleep because my dreams are what they did to us. At least awake I can talk to imaginary people like you. You're different than the others I've thought up. I like that about you. You're not a hero, at least not what I pictured. But I shall still send you out on your [heroic journey]. You shall save me, save them, and defeat the evil that has driven me insane. Even if you are just a fragment of hope conjured from what remains of my mind.'You say, 'My heroic journey...'a disheveled human says 'Go forth, my savior! Rescue my mind from the clutches of darkness!'You have been assigned the task 'Kill the Mindshear Attendants'.The poor, nameless human asked you to destroy those that attend the great beast they appear to call the Mindshear. He was not entirely lucid, and it was hard to understand all that he said, but it was obvious that this beast, the Mindshear, and its attendants cause great suffering to those imprisoned in the fortress.From the next quest:From what you could understand of the human's mad conversations, the transformation of a being into a discordian is a two-fold process. First the mind is made ready, forced open to all sorts of mind twisting pain. This is what the great beast, the Mindshear, does. Once the mind is broken open like an egg, the physical modifications are made. The discordians attempt to form the being into something more suited to their lifestyle, that of destroying worlds. The human has asked you, whom he believes to be a figment of his imagination, to slay those that perform such cruel work. And the final quest of the arc has this dialogue with some senior Discordian planners (whom you destroy later on):This step updates in the large round room in the northwest (west of the vitriks room, then north past the kyv room). You'll enter the room during a discussion among some of Discord's higher ranking officers:Hexxt Gulrak Vetxi says, 'The Army of Discord will gain nothing from this world. We should kill everything, strip it bare and move on.' Pixxt Tvici Kalcyx says, 'I disagree Ra`tuk. This planet is rich in resources and these beings, though weak, can serve our needs even if only as slaves.' Hexxt Gulrak Vetxi barks, 'Nonsense! They can barely put up a fight and their bodies cannot take even the most basic conversion techniques. These pathetic creatures are not worthy of my blade!' Tunat`Muram Vak Muat says, 'Do not underestimate their resolve Ra`tuk. Overlord Mata Muram once thought as you. His arrogance is the reason for our continued 'allegiance' with these riftseekers.' Zun`Muram Kovl Txikx says, 'Mata Muram was a fool! If I had his armies at my command, this world would now be a realm of Discord, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.' Tunat`Muram Vak Muat says, 'Perhaps, but the fact remains that we still have not conquered this world, and with each passing day the people of this planet grow stronger against us. Mata Muram failed us, and we must not make such a mistake this time.' Hexxt Gulrak Vetxi says, 'I will not make such a mistake. Thousands of these weaklings will fall to my blade.' Zun`Muram Kovl Txikx says, 'We shall see Ra`tuk.' Zun`Muram Kovl Txikx says, 'What's this? It seems we have guests. Ra`tuk! Dispatch these interlopers. Time to put your blade to the test.' Hexxt Gulrak Vetxi says, 'As you command Zun`Muram!'

Aneova

05-05-2009, 12:13 PM

There is a time variation within the void, how else would the ethernauts greet us upon defeating Ferzhul just as we are about to defeat varsoon.

Meirril

05-05-2009, 04:54 PM

<cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is a time variation within the void, how else would the ethernauts greet us upon defeating Ferzhul just as we are about to defeat varsoon.</blockquote>Time travel and cross planar travel with out time as a shard constant between planes gets tricky. There is a acceptable explination that has nothing to do with time travel but involves another strange concept.Its possible that time does not exist in the void. Without time to seperate events everything takes place in the void in a single moment. Our rational minds would artificially order events to fit our perceptions so we would create "time" to explain what happens to ourselves. If this was the case, exiting the void could have several potentially interesting time paradoxes. Depending on how you leave could result in you entering Norrath in several different times. In effect, if you left the way the Ethernaughts entered you could come out at the exact moment they entered. If they left with you out the portal you use to enter they would be in modern Norrath. If you left out the breach Varsoon created then you'd be either in the Age of Adventure or Age of Cataclysims.Again, just an alternative thought.

Ragnaphore

05-07-2009, 02:15 AM

<cite><cite>Gezrn@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></cite><blockquote> Our next peice of evidence comes not from a screenshot, but from the lore of Seeds of Destruction: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=14996">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/sto...tml?story=14996</a>It says that a Dark God was infuriated by Mata's failure. This being the Void, only two "gods" were sent there. Anashti, and Theer, and while Theer is an avatar, he would not have trouble convincing people within a place such as the Void that he was a god in his own right as the corruption took his mind. That said, he also would have had alot of time to administer a ruleing of the void between his banishment and the time of Anashti.'s banishment.</blockquote>And there you have a problem. From your link : "These forces all worshiped a dark god of the discordant pantheon." And two "gods" - or godlike entities - don't make a pantheon.I think Discord and the Void are two entierly different things. You had small groups of Shadowmen in many of the original EQ1 zones and - as far as I know - they were never linked to discord's activities. Neither did you see any Shadowmen with Mata's legions.Other than they have both invaded countless worlds, the Void and Discord don't have much in common, Discord was about conquerind and enslaving worlds for riches and power, using "brute force" to do it (Open portal, send a huge army, kill anyone that rebel and enslave the rest) while the Void do it for its own survival and prefer more covert tactics including building plans over centuries (Shadowmen are enemy with the Temple of SolRo since EQ1 launch ! Even if we had no idea why back then)That said, maybe we'll see the return of Discord in the future - I hope not tbh - Mata Muram & Co might not be canon due to timesplit but the priests of Discord sure are <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />

Cusashorn

05-07-2009, 08:12 AM

And yet there's been no mention of the Priests of Discord anywhere in EQ2. Not in the game, and certainly not from the Developers.What was originally an NPC ONLY DESIGNED strictly as a game mechanic to allow players to PVP on non-PVP servers only became part of the game's story after the timesplit.When EQ2 was released, they didn't have PVP, and thus no need to include that game mechanic NPC into the game or lore.

LordPazuzu

05-07-2009, 11:35 AM

The Discordian Tower doesn't even closely resemble the Void Palace.Furthermore:<hr />The Void Because of Discord's interference in the timelines of Norrath the world has been destroyed completely. The only objects left are the drifting asteroid shards called The Void. Sparking time portals in The Void drift in the ether and lead to the various rifts in time: the Plane of Time, Bloody Kithicor, the Field of Scale, Oceangreen Hills, the Bloodfields, the Invasion of the Plane of Earth, and realm of Discord.<hr />This would seem to indicate that Discord is an entirely seperate realm from the EQ1 Void, accessible in the same manor as other physical locations within history. The EQ2 Void would not merely be considered another physical place in time to be accessed in the same manor as a place like Kithicor Forest. The EQ2 Void is an entirely different dimension(different from a Plane or mortal realm) that seperates Existence from Oblivion. We dont access the Void zones through portals. We access the Void zones through obelisk-like towers erected on our world that allow bits and pieces of matter within the Void to anchor themselves to our world to avoid being drawn into the swirling vortex that leads to Oblivion. The Realm of Discord and the Voids of both EQ1 and EQ2 are entirely different concepts from one another.

Cusashorn

05-07-2009, 01:30 PM

Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...

Homeskillet

05-07-2009, 01:35 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Exactly, the nature of the Obelisks is literally an anchor into Norrath (or any other world) which gives the Void a foot hold on that world as much as it allows some plucky adventurers to step into that portal and be transported into the Void themselves.

Cusashorn

05-07-2009, 01:37 PM

But you said we don't enter the void through portals, though we technically do, as the structures don't have physical entrances and stuff.

Homeskillet

05-07-2009, 01:38 PM

I was agreeing with you.

Cusashorn

05-07-2009, 01:41 PM

Ahh, sorry, my bad then. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Homeskillet

05-07-2009, 02:20 PM

<cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Exactly, the nature of the Obelisks is literally an anchor into Norrath (or any other world) which gives the Void a foot hold on that world as much as it allows some plucky adventurers to step into that portal and be transported into the Void themselves.</blockquote>See?

LordPazuzu

05-09-2009, 03:49 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Yes, but not a portal in the most traditional sense like pictured within the EQ1 screenshots. The Void portals must mechanically take on a specific form within our realm of existance, which the EQ1 portals do not meet the requirements for.

Lodrelhai

05-09-2009, 04:56 PM

<cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Yes, but not a portal in the most traditional sense like pictured within the EQ1 screenshots. The Void portals must mechanically take on a specific form within our realm of existance, which the EQ1 portals do not meet the requirements for.</blockquote>Actually, the portals to the outside of the Obelisk of Lost Souls have no physical anchor or obelisk. Kill the guards, and the portal opens. One of the documents within OoLS confirms that this is a second portal, separate from the one anchored to the Tower of Vul, with a variable placement function to prevent Norrath natives from using it for easy access.

LordPazuzu

05-10-2009, 02:56 AM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Yes, but not a portal in the most traditional sense like pictured within the EQ1 screenshots. The Void portals must mechanically take on a specific form within our realm of existance, which the EQ1 portals do not meet the requirements for.</blockquote>Actually, the portals to the outside of the Obelisk of Lost Souls have no physical anchor or obelisk. Kill the guards, and the portal opens. One of the documents within OoLS confirms that this is a second portal, separate from the one anchored to the Tower of Vul, with a variable placement function to prevent Norrath natives from using it for easy access.</blockquote>Yes, but the physical Tower of Vul in the Feerott is the anchor and the main portal. Without it the other portals would not be possible. Also ineffective. The tower in the Feerott is the easiest way to access the Obelisk of Lost Souls. You get to skip the anchor cavern and the front door access quest all together.

Lodrelhai

05-11-2009, 04:38 PM

<cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Yes, but not a portal in the most traditional sense like pictured within the EQ1 screenshots. The Void portals must mechanically take on a specific form within our realm of existance, which the EQ1 portals do not meet the requirements for.</blockquote>Actually, the portals to the outside of the Obelisk of Lost Souls have no physical anchor or obelisk. Kill the guards, and the portal opens. One of the documents within OoLS confirms that this is a second portal, separate from the one anchored to the Tower of Vul, with a variable placement function to prevent Norrath natives from using it for easy access.</blockquote>Yes, but the physical Tower of Vul in the Feerott is the anchor and the main portal. Without it the other portals would not be possible. Also ineffective. The tower in the Feerott is the easiest way to access the Obelisk of Lost Souls. You get to skip the anchor cavern and the front door access quest all together.</blockquote>From "<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=188" target="_blank">Extended Studies and Multi-sampling</a>":<blockquote>In order to minimize the risks while obtaining the widest variety of samples, the new anchor will move from land mass to land mass at random intervals and locations. This will help prevent organized sieges upon the obelisk.</blockquote>New anchor. Not related to or dependent on the Tower of Vul. Whether Vul or the new anchor is the most efficient means into the Obelisk is not the point - they are still independent anchors.

LordPazuzu

05-12-2009, 05:01 AM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm.. Actually, when you click on those anchors and obelisks, you really ARE entering a portal that transports you there...</blockquote>Yes, but not a portal in the most traditional sense like pictured within the EQ1 screenshots. The Void portals must mechanically take on a specific form within our realm of existance, which the EQ1 portals do not meet the requirements for.</blockquote>Actually, the portals to the outside of the Obelisk of Lost Souls have no physical anchor or obelisk. Kill the guards, and the portal opens. One of the documents within OoLS confirms that this is a second portal, separate from the one anchored to the Tower of Vul, with a variable placement function to prevent Norrath natives from using it for easy access.</blockquote>Yes, but the physical Tower of Vul in the Feerott is the anchor and the main portal. Without it the other portals would not be possible. Also ineffective. The tower in the Feerott is the easiest way to access the Obelisk of Lost Souls. You get to skip the anchor cavern and the front door access quest all together.</blockquote>From "<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=188" target="_blank">Extended Studies and Multi-sampling</a>":<blockquote>In order to minimize the risks while obtaining the widest variety of samples, the new anchor will move from land mass to land mass at random intervals and locations. This will help prevent organized sieges upon the obelisk.</blockquote>New anchor. Not related to or dependent on the Tower of Vul. Whether Vul or the new anchor is the most efficient means into the Obelisk is not the point - they are still independent anchors.</blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. According to later lore, the void zones must remain anchored to the material world by a tower-like structure which is usually built by local inhabitants under shadowed man influence. That book is essentially null and void(no pun intended) since the devs never implemented that mechanic in game as written. The Tower of Vul is the anchor for the Obelisk of Vul, which is called The Obelisk of Lost Souls by Norrathians. It does not move from landmass to landmass and neither do the other portals. The are all static. The Tower of Zet within the Lesser Faydark is nearly identical in structure to the Tower of Vul and serves the same purpose for the Obelisk of Zet. It also is incapable of movement. The towers within Innothule swamp that anchor Ahkzul, Bazzul, and the Void Palace are also stationary and do not move. Regardless of what that book claims, no Void structure currently anchored to Norrath exists without a physical tower and none have non-stationary portals. The Obelisk of Vul is unique in that it has additional portals that exist in addition to the Tower of Vul, but it still does not exist without the Tower of Vul.

Lodrelhai

05-12-2009, 06:07 AM

<cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>From "<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=188" target="_blank">Extended Studies and Multi-sampling</a>":<blockquote>In order to minimize the risks while obtaining the widest variety of samples, the new anchor will move from land mass to land mass at random intervals and locations. This will help prevent organized sieges upon the obelisk.</blockquote>New anchor. Not related to or dependent on the Tower of Vul. Whether Vul or the new anchor is the most efficient means into the Obelisk is not the point - they are still independent anchors.</blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. According to later lore, the void zones must remain anchored to the material world by a tower-like structure which is usually built by local inhabitants under shadowed man influence. That book is essentially null and void(no pun intended) since the devs never implemented that mechanic in game as written. The Tower of Vul is the anchor for the Obelisk of Vul, which is called The Obelisk of Lost Souls by Norrathians. It does not move from landmass to landmass and neither do the other portals. The are all static. The Tower of Zet within the Lesser Faydark is nearly identical in structure to the Tower of Vul and serves the same purpose for the Obelisk of Zet. It also is incapable of movement. The towers within Innothule swamp that anchor Ahkzul, Bazzul, and the Void Palace are also stationary and do not move. Regardless of what that book claims, no Void structure currently anchored to Norrath exists without a physical tower and none have non-stationary portals. The Obelisk of Vul is unique in that it has additional portals that exist in addition to the Tower of Vul, but it still does not exist without the Tower of Vul.</blockquote>You've never left OoLS from the external portal with a group, have you?The shifting portal IS implemented, because if your group leaves the obelisk from the portal outside the tower, everyone ends up in a random zone which has a spawnable void portal - different random zones. That was a major pain in the tuckus the first time I was there with friends, because we thought we'd come back in the same zone we entered from, and had to spend some time getting back together from all over Norrath.While technically it is possible to have the portals in multiple zones open at once, the concept is that all those different portals are, in fact, the same portal, just shifting from one place to another (except the one in Feerrot, which is anchored to the Tower of Vul). Perhaps the unstable portal proved too power-intensive to maintain without a permanent anchor, perhaps it proved ineffective for its purpose (as Norrathians seem to have no problem mounting offensives against the Obelisk). Or, perhaps, it is a portal option the Void still uses in limited manners, such as the widely scattered Void storms from last summer.

LordPazuzu

05-12-2009, 12:43 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>From "<a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=188" target="_blank">Extended Studies and Multi-sampling</a>":<blockquote>In order to minimize the risks while obtaining the widest variety of samples, the new anchor will move from land mass to land mass at random intervals and locations. This will help prevent organized sieges upon the obelisk.</blockquote>New anchor. Not related to or dependent on the Tower of Vul. Whether Vul or the new anchor is the most efficient means into the Obelisk is not the point - they are still independent anchors.</blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. According to later lore, the void zones must remain anchored to the material world by a tower-like structure which is usually built by local inhabitants under shadowed man influence. That book is essentially null and void(no pun intended) since the devs never implemented that mechanic in game as written. The Tower of Vul is the anchor for the Obelisk of Vul, which is called The Obelisk of Lost Souls by Norrathians. It does not move from landmass to landmass and neither do the other portals. The are all static. The Tower of Zet within the Lesser Faydark is nearly identical in structure to the Tower of Vul and serves the same purpose for the Obelisk of Zet. It also is incapable of movement. The towers within Innothule swamp that anchor Ahkzul, Bazzul, and the Void Palace are also stationary and do not move. Regardless of what that book claims, no Void structure currently anchored to Norrath exists without a physical tower and none have non-stationary portals. The Obelisk of Vul is unique in that it has additional portals that exist in addition to the Tower of Vul, but it still does not exist without the Tower of Vul.</blockquote>You've never left OoLS from the external portal with a group, have you?The shifting portal IS implemented, because if your group leaves the obelisk from the portal outside the tower, everyone ends up in a random zone which has a spawnable void portal - different random zones. That was a major pain in the tuckus the first time I was there with friends, because we thought we'd come back in the same zone we entered from, and had to spend some time getting back together from all over Norrath.While technically it is possible to have the portals in multiple zones open at once, the concept is that all those different portals are, in fact, the same portal, just shifting from one place to another (except the one in Feerrot, which is anchored to the Tower of Vul). Perhaps the unstable portal proved too power-intensive to maintain without a permanent anchor, perhaps it proved ineffective for its purpose (as Norrathians seem to have no problem mounting offensives against the Obelisk). Or, perhaps, it is a portal option the Void still uses in limited manners, such as the widely scattered Void storms from last summer.</blockquote>Yes, I'd forgotten that the void storms also acted as one way portals. On a side note is was particularly satisfying finally killing Magus Vein'ca after all the hassle those storms caused.

Giraku

12-03-2009, 03:13 AM

Necroposted as promised, given the recent discovery.

Meirril

12-03-2009, 04:17 AM

Want to explain why you dug this up, or should a mod just come by and put this one to bed permanently?

Cusashorn

12-03-2009, 04:20 AM

<cite>Uzrok@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Necroposted as promised, given the recent discovery.</blockquote>Umm.. What recent discovery would this be?

Pervis

12-03-2009, 04:25 AM

<cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. </blockquote>Its an old post... but still.Actually, the mechanics of the entrance to OoLS were not always as they are now.Origionally, the portal in Feerrott was the only static portal to this zone in the game. Of the other six entrances (Ant, CL, TS, Nek, Zek, EL), only one was active at a time. The remaining 5 were simply not there, neither were the guardians.Originally, it functioned in the EXACT manner as discribed in "Extended Studies and Multi-Sampling".This was changed due to player annoyance. It is a case of game mechanics trumping game lore.

Meirril

12-03-2009, 04:34 AM

<cite>Pervis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. </blockquote>Its an old post... but still.Actually, the mechanics of the entrance to OoLS were not always as they are now.Origionally, the portal in Feerrott was the only static portal to this zone in the game. Of the other six entrances (Ant, CL, TS, Nek, Zek, EL), only one was active at a time. The remaining 5 were simply not there, neither were the guardians.Originally, it functioned in the EXACT manner as discribed in "Extended Studies and Multi-Sampling".This was changed due to player annoyance. It is a case of game mechanics trumping game lore.</blockquote>Or its an example of game lore not being updated to include changes to the mechanics. Either way, sloppy work.

Cusashorn

12-03-2009, 04:57 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pervis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mechanically, thats never how it played out when the devs actually implemented it. The anchor stays put in the Feerott and the other portals are stationary as well, revealing themselves when their guardians die. </blockquote>Its an old post... but still.Actually, the mechanics of the entrance to OoLS were not always as they are now.Origionally, the portal in Feerrott was the only static portal to this zone in the game. Of the other six entrances (Ant, CL, TS, Nek, Zek, EL), only one was active at a time. The remaining 5 were simply not there, neither were the guardians.Originally, it functioned in the EXACT manner as discribed in "Extended Studies and Multi-Sampling".This was changed due to player annoyance. It is a case of game mechanics trumping game lore.</blockquote>Or its an example of game lore not being updated to include changes to the mechanics. Either way, sloppy work.</blockquote>You're still suppose to assume that there are no other portals opened up, just the same as you're suppose to assume that Murrar Shar is not technically at three different places in Norrath at once, but is at each location at the same time that you are.

Giraku

12-03-2009, 04:49 PM

I was referring to the gates of discord being found as Canon lore. Several in the Befallen.lore channel said they would like to me necropost it. So I have, there is no need to be rude about it.

obikenkenobi

12-03-2009, 05:05 PM

Being a fantasy game....time splits, portals, floating islands in the sky, dream worlds, magic...I'd have to say that anything is possible and all is fair game. What happens when a dev wants to pull something from eq 1 out and use it in eq2? Its bound to happen sometime. Just sayin' never say never.

shadowscale

12-03-2009, 08:20 PM

<cite>Uzrok@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was referring to the gates of discord being found as Canon lore. Several in the Befallen.lore channel said they would like to me necropost it. So I have, there is no need to be rude about it.</blockquote>it was? void and discored are two diffrent things.discord is the chaos to our our world of balance.void is the space beyond both worlds where things are banashed/get stuck and suposed to be forgotton.

Cusashorn

12-03-2009, 10:04 PM

<cite>Uzrok@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was referring to the gates of discord being found as Canon lore. Several in the Befallen.lore channel said they would like to me necropost it. So I have, there is no need to be rude about it.</blockquote>It wasn't. As I mentioned, one vague line that references is does not make it canon. They don't go into further detail as to exactly what they're talking about.This isn't a recent discovery either. Just something that hasn't been brought up in ages since the Tome of Destiny was still being discussed years back.

DukeOccam

12-03-2009, 10:28 PM

I think we need to consider Occam's Razor here...it could be that "Gates of Discord" means something totally different in EQ2, or on the other hand it could be that a similar (maybe not exactly the same) situation happened. I mean, Druzzil Ro's intervention didn't replace all of Norrath with completely different people with completely new motivations. It stands to reason that many of the things that were fomenting before PoTime would still find their way to fruition in some way. I'm not saying "GoD is EQ2 canon." I'm just saying I highly doubt they're going to reuse the name and come up with something wildly different for it.I understand they are under no obligation to align it perfectly with EQ1, but at the same time they are under no obligation to make it 100% different either. There can definitely be some overlap. It only makes sense.As much as I wish we could just wipe away certain things (like the NPC who mentions Fayspire), it's doubtful that it won't have something in common with the original reference.

Meirril

12-03-2009, 11:03 PM

<cite>Uzrok@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was referring to the gates of discord being found as Canon lore. Several in the Befallen.lore channel said they would like to me necropost it. So I have, there is no need to be rude about it.</blockquote>If your going to do it, do it right. Link to new discussion on Gates of Discord:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=463534">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=463534</a>