Velious?

[Calris]

<p>No, this isn't a request to add it. ( Although, I'd be all for seeing it in a future expansion, that's a discussion for another thread in another folder. Hey, it wouldn't be as silly as asking for Luclin to be repaired. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) What I want to know is whether there's any official lore on what's become of the continent? RP-wise, bringing a character forward from EQ1's time setting would hinge somewhat on knowing the fate of the land.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>what we know is only that the ice sheet covering the continent, or most of it, melted away which is what caused the flooding/creation of islands out of Antonica and distorted the map as we used to know it. other then that we don't know anything about Velious or any of it's former empires/people (Thurgadin/Kael Drakkal/Skyshrine/Temple of Veeshan)</p><p>though I'll wager the Othmir probably survived.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>It's very likely that most of the non-icy parts of Velious are currently submerged underneath the ocean, and likely the ice cities of Kael Drakkel and Thurgadin are destroyed.</p><p>As to what happened to the portal to the Plane of Growth, the city of Skyshrine, and the Temple of Veeshan, no one knows. Tunare could, in theory, use her divine power to place the portal to Growth anywhere she wants (and if the portal to Growth re-emerged I would imagine it would be in Faydwer, not Velious). I can't imagine the dragons of Skyshrine and Temple of Veeshan, though, would sit idly while their city and temple are flooded by rising waters.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Tunare gave Wuoshi the Bloom of Growth (and with it, the entrance to her plane) in Faydwer.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>*ahem* given his rather violent (understatement) rampage after he was woken up.  I'd wager Kerafyrm probably wiped out the VAST majority of the Claws of Veeshan.</p><p>(For those not in the know, when the 4th warder in the Sleepers tomb died, Kerafyrm the Sleeper awakened, killed the raid without fail [not counting the Rallos Zek kill], went into the Eastern Wastes, killed anything in his way, went to Kael, wiped anything in his path, went to Wakening Lands, killed whatever was in the way [interestingly ignored Woushi, the only dragon he'd ignore], went to skyshrine, killed EVERYTHING there [player and mob alike, Yelinak included], went into the Cobalt Scar, killing anything in his way there [Wyverns would attack Kerafyrm as the Claws of Veeshan faction is agressive to the Sleeper's faction], went to Siren's Grotto, killing whatever was in his way, went to Western Wastes, killed anything in his way [at the time Harla Dar wasnt in game IIRC], zoned into the Temple of Veeshan and proceeded to lay waste to the Northern ToV before "zoning" into the heavens to challenge Veeshan...)</p><p>Given this course of events, while he may have left SOME of the Claws alive, the majority were likey made into fleshy paste by his claws.  If the glacial sheet melted than the low points of Velious would flood (resulting in a nice lake roughly where the Wakening Lands used to be), so it's likely Velious is nothing we recognize today...  (I may have the specifics wrong about Kerafyrm's exact actions, I know for a fact that he destroyed anything that moved in Skyshrine, and, while I wasn't there at the time I've heard from friends that were that he made a line right for NToV afterward)</p><p>If any faction came out of Velious intact it'd likely be the Coldain Dwarves of Thurgadin, since the giants in Kael would attack Kerafyrm (and die) without fail, it would decimate their military force, and Kerafyrm wiped out the VAST majority of the Claws.  (The Kael bit may just be game mechanics and not canon, but I think Kerafyrm's cranky dragon tantrum is canon)</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Slight correction there: He was only coded to rampage through Skyshrine and then Temple of Veeshan. He never actually appeared in EW, Kael, EL, CS, SG, or WW.</p><p>Although, every dragon across the entire game acknowledged his awakening when it happened. Naggy, Vox, Trakanon, Veeshan's Peak, Skyshrine, Western Wastes, Temple of Veeshan... Most of them had something to say when he woke up.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>And every one of the ones in Skyshrine and ToV tried to fight him, and failed...  Horribly.</p><p>It doesn't supprise me that every dragon had something to say about his waking up.  From those that originally supported him (Isn't that the official origin or the Ring of Scale?  They believed Kerafyrm was some kind of divine chosen one?) to those that felt he was dangerous and needed to be sealed away (The Claws of Veeshan, specifically the First Brood of Veeshan) to those that only heard of him through myth and legend (Nagafen and Vox, maybe Trakanon? I think Jaled Dar actually served Kerafyrm, so I know [or at least assume] he was alive during the War of the Sleeper.)</p><p>Assuming his utter destruction of Skyshrine and ToV is canon (and I haven't seen anything either way) then the Claws would be so far this side of screwed as to be unlikely to have survived the past 500 years...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Nah, the Ring of Scale just chose to create itself on Kunark due to some differences in philosophy of leadership. They didn't like Kerafyrm any more than the Claws did.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>If I remember right the primary difference in the Claws/Scales was the Claws wanted little to do, if anything, with the other races while the Ring wanted dragonkind to be more prominent in shaping Norrath.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Portions of Velious likely to have survived:</p><p>Tower of Frozen Shadow: populated by undead, slimes, and shadow men. I can't see this cursed place being even inconvienced by falling throught the ice to skink to the bottom of the ocean.</p><p>Gnome Pirates/Ice Paw Gnolls: Its possible that both groups survived the melt. The real question is how violent was the melt? If we're talking about a major portion of Luclin crashed here, then the tidle wave should of killed EVERYONE in velious, above or below ground. Lets assume that things just warmed and people at least had a chance...</p><p>Crystal Caverns: technically, its possible that a deep hold like this might survive with a little magical assistance. Keeping the cap frozen plus magic to refresh the air should allow this little pocket of Dwarves/Orcs to survive. That is if the spiders didn't ruin everything...</p><p>Eastern Wastes: Total melt. No survivors except for walrus men. They are aquatic so it should be possible for them to make it out.</p><p>Kael: The gians were magically powerful. Maybe with a little fore-warning from Ralos they could of sealed up Kael and prevented it from flooding. Velium isn't like normal ice. It won't melt from normal heat. I'd give them a fairly good chance of surviving.</p><p>Thurgadin: With some divine warnings these crafty dwarves could of shut themselves behind barriers of Velium ice. I can't seen them staying under water though. They would move to a new location.</p><p>Skyshrine: A decimated place, with a handful of survivors trying to rebuild. Almost certainly it would of been wiped out shortly after Keryfym's rampage by a giant raid. How could they not take this opportunity to capitalize on their enemy's weakness?</p><p>Siren's Grotto: Was under ice and inhabited by mostly aquatic creatures. I'd say if there wasn't a direct hit, the creatures would survive in the new Velious.</p><p>Waking Lands: It could be under water. It was protected by steep mountains on all sides. Its possible that this valley provided the seed for the jungle that is rumored to have taken over the now tropical Velious.</p><p>Hmm...yet another source of unicorns. Yay? Maybe Panther mounts too?</p><p>Temple of Veshan/Dragon Necropolis: These are both protected by ancient magics. Even without anyone living in them it is certainly believable that both are intact. Perhaps flooded but intact. ToV could be haunted by the dead dragon's spirits. It could also be populated with a new brood of dragons taking shelter in the last safe place for dragon kind on Velious after Skyshrine's sacking. Also more history on the Ratonga might be revealed here...</p><p>Plane of Growth/Plane of Mischief: All the planar portals are suppose to be closed. There isn't a reason to think that they should still be open here. Though...Bristlebane might of left a "fragment"/puzzle behind on purpose. Kind of a last practical joke before he departed.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The Tower of Frozen Shadow... ehh I wouldn't be so sure. It was built in the region of Velious known as the Icy Fingers, which were nothing more than large icebergs with very little actual foundation to the ground. If anything, it would be the first to go.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>True, but Tserrina(sp) was a powerful vampiress/sorceress in her own right. nothing in the Tower was living to be effected by floodwaters.in theory, if she had the magial power to do so, she could have raised the tower or translocated it to a 'safer' location.</p><p>I don't think Thurgadin or Kael survived, mostly due to the only 'divine word' anyone got about the coming disasters was 'get your rear to qeynos/freeport'. Especailly Kael Drakkel. not only were the dragon's and dwarves against it, but the Wakening lands as well. during the questing there you learn the forest itself was fighting against the giant's attempts to demolish it/use it as a resource.</p><p>I imagine that during/after the melt that the wakening lands, which probably is the 'seed' that sprang the jungle that supposedly covers the place, consumed the giant city/ruins of skyshrine first thing. Thurgadin was just in a nasty position if you consider that the Great Divide was almost entirely covered with snow and ice. the flooding would force the dwarves out. even if they tried to barricade themselves with Velium, they had no way of harvesting or gathering food, or anyway to get fresh air. Odds are if the Thurgadin dwarves survived, they abandoned Thurgadin and made a home I'd wager built more like Kaladim into the moutainsides after the majority of the flooding to be sure of it's safety.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what we know is only that the ice sheet covering the continent, or most of it, melted away which is what caused the flooding/creation of islands out of Antonica and distorted the map as we used to know it. other then that we don't know anything about Velious or any of it's former empires/people (Thurgadin/Kael Drakkal/Skyshrine/Temple of Veeshan)</p><p>though I'll wager the Othmir probably survived.</p></blockquote><p>Part of it, maybe. The Rending was the main cause of the continent-wide earthquakes and resulted in the breaking of Antonica. I assumed Antonica was the epicenter of the world-wide disasters since the majority of damages was there - melted water doesn't explain the rotation shifts of the islands in one direction or other.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Hmm..that's a good point. The rending could of pushed any portion of velious up above the water line. Either before or after it was abandoned.</p><p>I'm not going to count the giants out. Their major enemy was weakened horribly. The Thurgadin dwarves were less of a threat to them than adventureres. If anything, it was the stalemate between the dragons and the giants that kept the dwarves safe. Also the giants make better enemies than dwarves....ahem.</p><p>I'm starting to wonder if any of the icy creatures would adapt to the new jungle enviroment? Like the wooly ice burrowers? Or the crystal spiders? Even the ice bunnys might not have adapted.</p><p>I think we could generally agree that the Thurgadin Dwarves would move. They moved before, their Lore talkes about them moving to escape the giants time and time again. I don't think they would get too sentimental about Thurgadin which would leave an excellent dungeon and instances to explore. (Icewall Keep raid forming! Need your own water breathing) It could even provide a new home for the Sirens.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>well not saying that the giants are all dead and gone...just that Kael Drakkel is. a thought also occured to me that Kerafyrm might have sacked that city as well. I mean think on it...Kera is on his way to Skyshrine. the Giants either a) spot him on the path incoming or b) hear the roars of battle in Skyshrine. in either option, they go to 1) take a tactical advantage of what they percieve as infighting to eliminate thier enemy or 2) see Kera as a Skyshrine ally and attempt to take him out before he can join with Yelniak.</p><p>both scenarios, thier presence annoys/pisses off Kera who in turn shows the giants what a 'real' dragon can do.</p><p>as to the tropical change of enviroment, I imagine the that the ice spiders and woolies will have died out. the mammoths if any survived probably turned into more like the modern day elephant.I can see the bunnys surviving, thier fur colors changing over time. griffons probably made it. I wouldn't even be surprised to find that the major surviving factions were the Dwarves and the Ry'gorr Orcs.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>The Gnome pirates in Iceclad will have made it----heck, they probably CAUSED it! </p><p>I wonder about the Tower of Frozen Shadows though.  That had some very interesting lore attached to it.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Why are so many people convinced Velious is mostly melted/underwater when it had almost more raw landmass than Everfrost (which is mostly intact), as well as the fact that much of the actual icecap was made of velium?</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>becasue it was stated that much of the world's cartography was changes by 2 things. the Rending tearing the contients apart, and Velious 'melting' and flooding on a global scale.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Word of Devs goes a long way to making us think that the major ice sheet over Velious melted.</p><p>Of course this causes a slight lore conflict, since the majority of the "ice" on Velious was Velium Ice, which is stated to never melt [though a forge can thaw it for long enough to make something, it can't melt in the permanent sense of the word].  The melting of Velium though could be attributed to Veeshan (and the rest of the Pantheon) leaving Norrath alone for a while, since Velium was where her breath struck the ice, and thus is probably at least partly dependant on her for its durability.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Word of Devs goes a long way to making us think that the major ice sheet over Velious melted.</p><p>Of course this causes a slight lore conflict, since the majority of the "ice" on Velious was Velium Ice, which is stated to never melt [though a forge can thaw it for long enough to make something, it can't melt in the permanent sense of the word].  The melting of Velium though could be attributed to Veeshan (and the rest of the Pantheon) leaving Norrath alone for a while, since Velium was where her breath struck the ice, and thus is probably at least partly dependant on her for its durability.</p></blockquote><p>Velious couldn't be mostly Velium. If it was, the dwarves wouldn't go through such great lengths to mine it. Even if only half the ice in Velious was actual ice that is still a lot of water we're talking about if it all suddenly melted.</p><p>BTW, what gives you the idea that Veeshan would conspire with the rest of the gods? The rest of the gods rose to oppose her claim to Norrath. She has more in common with the Nameless than she does with the gods of influence or even Elemental gods. The only real contact we've had with her is through her offspring and she hasn't returned in any real form since she first deposited the first brood.</p><p>It would be intersting to see Veeshan added as a worshipable diety, if only to see how big her Avatar would be. Even a 1/1000 scale avatar should dwarf entire cities...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Velium is an ice-like metal/mineral, not actual ice. As Meirril put it, the dwarves go to extreme lengths just to mine it, so it's not as common as you think.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Much of the Great Divide was covered by an entire glacier of velium, not just normal snow and ice which extended into the Eastern Wastes. Iceclad ocean itself was a huge area of ice floes that could account for any manner of flooding. Nonetheless, much of Velious itself in EQ1 was tall, sheer cliffs. Translate this into EQ2 and it could have been further above sea level than Kunark or Faydwer, both continents saw very little reduction in area from flooding.</p><p>Wakening Lands itself was formed due to geological events that occured due to Veeshan creating the Great Scar. The growth in Wakening Lands was simple climate change; Tunare just placed her creations and then the Bloom of Growth there, which made the jungle become a sentient sort of life form. It was nestled in a valley surrounded by sheer cliffs, shielded by influence by the more frigid areas of Velious.</p><p>Western Wastes itself was another area that had large land mass, some of its flat lands bordered Iceclad Ocean but again, tall cliffs and coated in an velium ice sheet.</p><p>The sum total of much of this is that Velious's ice sheet and glaciers were influenced by Veeshan striking the ice, which created velium in the first place. Velium ice itself cannot melt, but can expand and grow much like normal ice (the glacier in Great Divide was a moving glacier, encroaching upon the dagger flow river over the process of years. Assume several large natural formed ice glaciers melted and raised the water level; you still have a very large continent with a great deal of land that is unaccounted for.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>I'm going to be logical. I know this is a mistake when we're talking about Lore but I'm going to make it anyways.</p><p>Ok, Velium is a magical ice that is as hard as steel and does not melt. It remains cold. If you have something that is at a freezing tempature it tends to attract all the moisture from the air to it which forms cold water which will either freeze into ice or be warmed by the air tempature and form an insulating barrier of cold water.</p><p>Normally the entire mass raises in tempature and the whole thing melts. But we're talking about something that will at its core never give in to the laws of thermodymanics. Ain't magic grand?</p><p>Ok, so what would happen? *Normal* ice would continue to form on top of the velium until enough normal ice was created to insulate the moisture in the air from the velium. In effect, you've reversed what normally happens by having an infinite heat sink. Given a large enough patch of Velium (say an entire continent covered by it) and you'd create a polar cap in any climate which would have a huge impact on the climate causing ice shelves to form far beyond the immediate vicinity of the velium itself.</p><p>Now if Velium propagates itself into other ice that comes in contact with it, then technically without other magical influence all of Norrath's water is being converted to velium and we should be living on a gigantic ice ball with no unfrozen water on it considering that this whole process got started at the beginning of life on Norrath as far as we're concerned. Also the Thurgadin dwarves would be strip mining, not digging deep shafts into the ice/earth to get velium. Velium would also be the most common substance on Velious. Well, considering that just about everything you got in velious was made from the stuff it probably is...</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tunare gave Wuoshi the Bloom of Growth (and with it, the entrance to her plane) in Faydwer.</p></blockquote><p>This is all we truely know as fact.  The rest is heresay until it physically enters into the game world. </p><p>The game world outside of the Shattered Lands area all seems to have miraculously have escaped the most of the worldwide cataclysm when it comes time to add it to the game in expansion form. On Faydwer, the biggest cataclysmic change was the loss of the physical barrier that seperated the inland sea of Dagnor's Caudron from the rest of the ocean and Greater Faydark became more annoying to navigate.  On Kunark... well theres a huge luclinite meteor in the Overthere and Cabilis is gone.  Most of the other changes were the result of political/cultural evolution.  If/when Velious is added, we'll have hard fact regarding its fate. Until then it's merely players speculating and devs feeding us stories which may or may not prove to be true in the end.</p><p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wakening Lands itself was formed due to geological events that occured due to Veeshan creating the Great Scar. The growth in Wakening Lands was simple climate change; Tunare just placed her creations and then the Bloom of Growth there, which made the jungle become a sentient sort of life form. It was nestled in a valley surrounded by sheer cliffs, shielded by influence by the more frigid areas of Velious.</p><p>Western Wastes itself was another area that had large land mass, some of its flat lands bordered Iceclad Ocean but again, tall cliffs and coated in an velium ice sheet.</p><p>The sum total of much of this is that Velious's ice sheet and glaciers were influenced by Veeshan striking the ice, which created velium in the first place. Velium ice itself cannot melt, but can expand and grow much like normal ice (the glacier in Great Divide was a moving glacier, encroaching upon the dagger flow river over the process of years. Assume several large natural formed ice glaciers melted and raised the water level; you still have a very large continent with a great deal of land that is unaccounted for.</p></blockquote><p>The Wakening Lands existed solely due to the Growth energies emanating from the Bloom of Growth.  The energies coming forth from Tunare's Plane of Power caused the ice there to melt and the jungle to grow.  It took the direct actions of one god to counteract the actions of another.</p><p>The ice cover of Velious was not due to Veeshan striking the continent, it was the result of Veeshan hitting the continent with her breath weapon with the intent of eternally freezing it and thus providing a protected realm for her brood to flourish.  This same magic is, I believe, also what protected the Kromzek, Kromrif, and Ry'Gorr from the Rathe's curse over the children of Zek.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wakening Lands itself was formed due to geological events that occured due to Veeshan creating the Great Scar. The growth in Wakening Lands was simple climate change; Tunare just placed her creations and then the Bloom of Growth there, which made the jungle become a sentient sort of life form. It was nestled in a valley surrounded by sheer cliffs, shielded by influence by the more frigid areas of Velious.</p><p>Western Wastes itself was another area that had large land mass, some of its flat lands bordered Iceclad Ocean but again, tall cliffs and coated in an velium ice sheet.</p><p>The sum total of much of this is that Velious's ice sheet and glaciers were influenced by Veeshan striking the ice, which created velium in the first place. Velium ice itself cannot melt, but can expand and grow much like normal ice (the glacier in Great Divide was a moving glacier, encroaching upon the dagger flow river over the process of years. Assume several large natural formed ice glaciers melted and raised the water level; you still have a very large continent with a great deal of land that is unaccounted for.</p></blockquote><p>The Wakening Lands existed solely due to the Growth energies emanating from the Bloom of Growth.  The energies coming forth from Tunare's Plane of Power caused the ice there to melt and the jungle to grow.  It took the direct actions of one god to counteract the actions of another.</p><p>The ice cover of Velious was not due to Veeshan striking the continent, it was the result of Veeshan hitting the continent with her breath weapon with the intent of eternally freezing it and thus providing a protected realm for her brood to flourish.  This same magic is, I believe, also what protected the Kromzek, Kromrif, and Ry'Gorr from the Rathe's curse over the children of Zek.</p></blockquote><p>I never stated the ice cover of Velious was due to her striking the continent, but it is not due to her "breath weapon". Velious was already a frozen continent, and it was the one Veeshan chose to mark with her claws as she had done other worlds she deposited her brood upon. Velious is where the dragons remained for so long because it was simply considered holy ground for them. Velium ice veins manifested, when the continent was struck due to contact with Veeshan. Now, I fully understand an earlier mentioned principle of how ice and the laws of thermaldynamics behave, I am merely citing what EQ2 lore developers/writers have stated, and in EQatlas there is specific mention of a velium glacier inching further into Great Divide, much like the constantly mobile glaciers in places such as southern Argentina in Ushuaia.</p><p>The Wakening Lands again are NOT solely due to the introduction of the seed of Growth. When Veeshan struck the continent to create the scars, pockets of magma shift and ruptured, creating a microclimate of warm, humid here in the isolated valley bordering Kael Drakkel and Skyshrine. Again, makes little logical sense, but we are talking about magical space faring god dragons and nature gods. When Tunare created the elves, she also created the Sifaye, which she placed in the Wakening Lands. When the magma began to cool and the jungle began to die...Tunare THEN opened a portal to the Plane of Growth from Norrath. With that direct connection to Tunare, the Wakening Lands flourished again and became a semi-sentient being who's purpose was to protect her faerie children.</p><p>The giants and orcs likewise, were not protected by Veeshan and her magical listerine fresh breath. When the giants were invading other lands, there were storms that washed them as far off as the Iceclad Ocean, far away from anywhere else but Velious. The armies of Rallos present in the Plane of Earth were those cursed, which were pretty much all of them. The orcs and giants that ended up in Velious simply dodged the curse by nature of being far far away from those events, Zek worshippers that they are, as they had settled in Velious to the chagrine of dragons and Coldain dwarves alike.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The giants and orcs likewise, were not protected by Veeshan and her magical listerine fresh breath. When the giants were invading other lands, there were storms that washed them as far off as the Iceclad Ocean, far away from anywhere else but Velious. The armies of Rallos present in the Plane of Earth were those cursed, which were pretty much all of them. The orcs and giants that ended up in Velious simply dodged the curse by nature of being far far away from those events, Zek worshippers that they are, as they had settled in Velious to the chagrine of dragons and Coldain dwarves alike.</blockquote><p>Most of the giants and orcs on Velious only ended up there BECAUSE of the curse. They were running away for thier own safety. Prexus and Xegony helped carry out the Rathe's curse on the giants by trying to sink thier ships with massive storms. Those that survived ended up getting stranded on Kunark and Velious.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>Actually I believe it was when the giants were on their way to invade Faydwer from Kunark that they got all screwed up and washed away, but yes it was at that moment that the curse was laid upon them. Though that is one part I may be rusty on. Velious lore was my favorite but its been years.</p><p>Either way with both points, the giants were not being protected by Veeshan or any sort of lingering magic of hers, their presence is viewed as sacrilege by the entirety of draconic populous on Velious.</p>

[Homeskillet]

<p>I stand slightly corrected, part of the "source of Velium" myth is that Veeshan breathed on Velious. This did not create the ice that was already there though, it simply transformed great swathes of it into velium.</p>

[teddyboy4]

<p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Homeskillet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wakening Lands itself was formed due to geological events that occured due to Veeshan creating the Great Scar. The growth in Wakening Lands was simple climate change; Tunare just placed her creations and then the Bloom of Growth there, which made the jungle become a sentient sort of life form. It was nestled in a valley surrounded by sheer cliffs, shielded by influence by the more frigid areas of Velious.</p><p>Western Wastes itself was another area that had large land mass, some of its flat lands bordered Iceclad Ocean but again, tall cliffs and coated in an velium ice sheet.</p><p>The sum total of much of this is that Velious's ice sheet and glaciers were influenced by Veeshan striking the ice, which created velium in the first place. Velium ice itself cannot melt, but can expand and grow much like normal ice (the glacier in Great Divide was a moving glacier, encroaching upon the dagger flow river over the process of years. Assume several large natural formed ice glaciers melted and raised the water level; you still have a very large continent with a great deal of land that is unaccounted for.</p></blockquote><p>The Wakening Lands existed solely due to the Growth energies emanating from the Bloom of Growth.  The energies coming forth from Tunare's Plane of Power caused the ice there to melt and the jungle to grow.  It took the direct actions of one god to counteract the actions of another.</p><p>The ice cover of Velious was not due to Veeshan striking the continent, it was the result of Veeshan hitting the continent with her breath weapon with the intent of eternally freezing it and thus providing a protected realm for her brood to flourish.  This same magic is, I believe, also what protected the Kromzek, Kromrif, and Ry'Gorr from the Rathe's curse over the children of Zek.</p></blockquote><p><em><strong>The Wakening Lands again are NOT solely due to the introduction of the seed of Growth. When Veeshan struck the continent to create the scars, pockets of magma shift and ruptured, creating a microclimate of warm, humid here in the isolated valley bordering Kael Drakkel and Skyshrine. Again, makes little logical sense, but we are talking about magical space faring god dragons and nature gods. When Tunare created the elves, she also created the Sifaye, which she placed in the Wakening Lands. When the magma began to cool and the jungle began to die...Tunare THEN opened a portal to the Plane of Growth from Norrath. With that direct connection to Tunare, the Wakening Lands flourished again and became a semi-sentient being who's purpose was to protect her faerie children.</strong></em></p></blockquote><p>The bolded and italicised section of the quote above is how I understood the Wakening Lands to have been created. The lands were originally warmer then the surrounding area b/c when Veeshan struck Velious, in that area she hit some shafts of magma which warmed the small valley creating a sub-tropical climate. It was later, probably when the other gods were populating Norrath w/ their creations, that Tunare took notice of this remote, and sheltered forrest valley and placed the Bloom of Growth there. Then, the Bloom spread Tunare's influence all around the valley, and it took on a life of it's own.</p><p>As for the rest of this discussion...I personally think our next expansion is going to take us to either Velious or Odus...those are the two most logical choices anyway (the dev's could throw us a curveball and create some totally new land...but I really hope not), and if it is Velious, I imagine that we will find it to be a land MUCH changed, but maybe not so much that it is unrecognizable as Velious. I know I am especially looking forward to, and hoping that some of my favorite Velious spots are still around. There was some great spots scattered around that continent...my favorite of which would have to be The Tower of Frozen Shadow. I've always really dug any insight into Mayong, and the story of him and Tserrina was always one of my favorites.</p><p>I also wouldn't be surprised to find Thurgadin intact b/c, as has been noted here, Velium don't melt. Which also could possibly mean Kael Drakkel (i believe that's the Giant cities name, right?) could still be around. And I'm willing to bet that most of the major Dragon monuments, buildings, shrines, etc, are still to be found...although the Scar itself may be greatly changed...i.e. underwater, broken apart by a norrathquake, etc.</p><p>Yeah, a lot of questions remain unanswered about Velious....and Odus....and Luclin....</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>Kael Drakkel wasn't made of Velium, nor for that matter was most of Thurgadin.  It's probable that both cities are at least damaged in some major way.  AFAIK there were no cities/building made totally out of Velium (Possible exception given to the Sleeper's Tomb), though it's a fairly common material on Velious (I suspect the reason the Dwarves had to work to mine it is that it's harder than steel and unmeltable, doesn't really make it easy to aquire, not rare persay, just difficult to extract)</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p>Here we go, dug up some lore from the day:</p><p><img src="http://web.archive.org/web/20000817092555/http://everquest.station.sony.com/velious/images/before.gif" width="142" height="18" /><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;"> Veeshan the great Crystalline Dragon marked Norrath by striking the continent of Velious with her foreclaw, and deposited her brood there to dwell. The legends of that time also tell that Veeshan blasted Velious with her breath, encasing it in eternal ice and creating a barrier of deadly ice flows and stormy weather. This marked the beginning of the Age of Scale.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;">The Age of Scale lasted untold millennia. From the tidbits of information passed down, it is known that a group of dragons mastered magic and spellcasting during this era. Additionally, dragons of power and influence among their kind gathered together and formed a hereditary ruling council known as the Claws of Veeshan, who rule the dragons of Velious to this day. Few of Norrath’s inhabitants know more of this Age, and none that do would dare to speak.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;">The end of the Age of Scale was marked by the Gods creation of the other races of Norrath. Many of Veeshan’s vainglorious brood perceived that they might rule over these lesser beings and left Velious. This splinter group became known as the Ring of Scale. Those dragons that remained upon Velious had little interest in temporal power, and were content to pass the millennia in homage to their goddess, and in quiet contemplation and the study of magics.</span></p> <p><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: x-small;">In the Elder Age, the Ogres, Giants and Goblins conquered much of Norrath and began an assault on the Plane of Earth, precipitating retribution from The Rathe in the form of a great curse against all of Rallos Zek’s creations. The fertile homelands of the Giants (now known as Everfrost) were frozen, and those giants caught in the epicenter of the curse were transformed wholly into immortal creatures of living ice. Those nearby were struck to the core of their beings, becoming lesser creatures in mind and body than they had been. Those few who escaped the effects fled Tunaria for other lands, coming to the attention of Prexus the Oceanlord, who sent a great storm to destroy them. The storm drove many ships back to Tunaria and to Kunark, where the curse of The Rathe took hold to a lesser degree than in Everfrost. Many of the most powerful giants managed to escape the storm thanks to their great powers, and passed through the Frigid Barrier to land upon the Icy Fingers in Velious. The Kromrif established themselves in the Eastern Wastes and lived as nomads, eventually coming into conflict with the Coldain. The Kromzek were the most powerful of all Rallos Zek’s creations. Not content with a nomadic lifestyle, they established a mighty fortress city named Kael Drakkal in the Great Scar of Veeshan. The Claws of Veeshan took exception to the intrusion of the Kromzek upon their sacred lands, and thus began the long conflict between the two mightiest races on Norrath, in this most inhospitable of all places. Ages passed, leaving the eastern regions of Velious largely in the control of the Giants. It was during this time that the ships of the Coldain, or Ice Dwarves, were wrecked upon the ice of the Frigid Barrier. Those few who survived to reach the shore escaped the notice of the Claws of Veeshan, but were devastated in a conflict with the fearsome Kromrif. Fleeing the giants, the Coldain established Thurgadin, a hidden underground fortress in the mountains. Since these times, none of the other races of Norrath have dared to approach the Frigid Barrier, and thus Velious remained undiscovered.</span></p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>I know that velium <em>was</em> a super-hard metal, difficult to mine and even moreso to work.  But any crafter out there knows that nowadays it's common as dirt and very maleable - so maleable that it's only suitable for jewelry or ornamentation, certainly not stronger-than-steel armor.</p><p>If Velious was kept icy by Veeshan's breath, and the age of dragons is waning, it seems to me that the melting of Velious might be due in part to her weakening influence/power (maybe even her death/severe injury if Kerafyrm ever caught up with her - still want to know where he disappeared to).  And if velium was created by that same breath, it may likewise be less than it was, and all those races that used it may have found their weapons, armor, and buildings (if incorporated into them) melting into slag around them.  That could also account for the mineral's wide distribution now - the floodwaters from the melt carried the softened velium with them, and currents and evaporation created deposits of the stuff on widely distant shores.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>^ You know, I can't remember any NPC's in EQ2 who actually seek out anything made from Velium, nore even mention it. I still don't think it's *THAT* common, despite being a T4 harvest material.</p>

[Rashaak]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>^ You know, I can't remember any NPC's in EQ2 who actually seek out anything made from Velium, nore even mention it. I still don't think it's *THAT* common, despite being a T4 harvest material.</p></blockquote><p>Ancient Velium Weapons from KoS instances</p><p>I think also some items from RoK...can't remember what though...  /shrug</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The Ancient Velium weapons found in Deathtoll are the same that were found in Sleeper's Tomb. Both are dragon-related dungeons. You couldn't find them outside of Sleeper's Tomb.</p><p>That said, that's an item with Velium in the name, not an NPC mentioning the metal itself.</p>

[Garnaf]

<p>This is probably a case of Gameplay / Story segregation.  Just cause we mine up vast quantities of velium as a T4 Crafting material doesn't mean that it makes sense.  In lore terms real, usable, velium would be limited to Velious only, so an NPC that wants something made of velium or relating to it would have to go to Velious.  (Kerafyrm likely brought those Ancient Velium weapons with him when he left Velious).  The velium we mine up is either A) absurdly impure or B) not actually velium, but a different material we simply CALL velium.  (a similar point of gameplay / story segregation would be the fact that gold is T3 common while silver is T2 rare, yet gold coins are 100x more valuable than silver coins. (dispite silver being the far rarer of the two metals apparently)</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is probably a case of Gameplay / Story segregation.  Just cause we mine up vast quantities of velium as a T4 Crafting material doesn't mean that it makes sense.  In lore terms real, usable, velium would be limited to Velious only, so an NPC that wants something made of velium or relating to it would have to go to Velious.  (Kerafyrm likely brought those Ancient Velium weapons with him when he left Velious).  The velium we mine up is either A) absurdly impure or B) not actually velium, but a different material we simply CALL velium.  (a similar point of gameplay / story segregation would be the fact that gold is T3 common while silver is T2 rare, yet gold coins are 100x more valuable than silver coins. (dispite silver being the far rarer of the two metals apparently)</p></blockquote><p>Heh, mining up all of that velium makes about as much sense as mining up all of that steel...</p><p>With all of that the steel and velium and cobalt and whatever the hell metals you mine up that have no business being where you got them, you could just suppose that the node you're mining is really the petrified carcass of a fallen adventure and the material is what's left of his phat lewtz from ages ago.</p><p>Sometimes we have to stretch the suspension of disbelief to absurd lengths to maintain continuity in our own minds.</p>

[Vanisher123]

<p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is probably a case of Gameplay / Story segregation.  Just cause we mine up vast quantities of velium as a T4 Crafting material doesn't mean that it makes sense.  In lore terms real, usable, velium would be limited to Velious only, so an NPC that wants something made of velium or relating to it would have to go to Velious.  (Kerafyrm likely brought those Ancient Velium weapons with him when he left Velious).  The velium we mine up is either A) absurdly impure or B) not actually velium, but a different material we simply CALL velium.  (a similar point of gameplay / story segregation would be the fact that gold is T3 common while silver is T2 rare, yet gold coins are 100x more valuable than silver coins. (dispite silver being the far rarer of the two metals apparently)</p></blockquote><p>Heh, mining up all of that velium makes about as much sense as mining up all of that steel...</p><p>With all of that the steel and velium and cobalt and whatever the hell metals you mine up that have no business being where you got them, you could just suppose that the node you're mining is <strong>really the petrified carcass of a fallen adventure and the material is what's left of his phat lewtz from ages ago.</strong></p><p>Sometimes we have to stretch the suspension of disbelief to absurd lengths to maintain continuity in our own minds.</p></blockquote><p>So thats what happens when your charcter dies, you rez, and the body turns into a node!</p><p>Just a question, since some of the lore about it melting mentions it got warmer (and stayed warmer), and we know halas "drifted" to a warmer area, and we know a good city is returning... hmm things to ponder?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Vanisher123 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dranikos@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is probably a case of Gameplay / Story segregation.  Just cause we mine up vast quantities of velium as a T4 Crafting material doesn't mean that it makes sense.  In lore terms real, usable, velium would be limited to Velious only, so an NPC that wants something made of velium or relating to it would have to go to Velious.  (Kerafyrm likely brought those Ancient Velium weapons with him when he left Velious).  The velium we mine up is either A) absurdly impure or B) not actually velium, but a different material we simply CALL velium.  (a similar point of gameplay / story segregation would be the fact that gold is T3 common while silver is T2 rare, yet gold coins are 100x more valuable than silver coins. (dispite silver being the far rarer of the two metals apparently)</p></blockquote><p>Heh, mining up all of that velium makes about as much sense as mining up all of that steel...</p><p>With all of that the steel and velium and cobalt and whatever the hell metals you mine up that have no business being where you got them, you could just suppose that the node you're mining is <strong>really the petrified carcass of a fallen adventure and the material is what's left of his phat lewtz from ages ago.</strong></p><p>Sometimes we have to stretch the suspension of disbelief to absurd lengths to maintain continuity in our own minds.</p></blockquote><p>So thats what happens when your charcter dies, you rez, and the body turns into a node!</p><p>Just a question, since some of the lore about it melting mentions it got warmer (and stayed warmer), and we know halas "drifted" to a warmer area, and we know a good city is returning... hmm things to ponder?</p></blockquote><p>And yet you actually have to take the armor and weapons from fallen raiders and meat from their mounts in the Void tradeskill instance. That's just... wrong.</p>