Considering Betraying

[Superjoint]

<p>Hello fellow Brawlers!,</p><p>Well, as of recently Ive been highly considering betraying to the more "offensive" Brawler which of course is the Bruiser.  Now, I come from a long background of playing the Monk class both in EQ1(6 yrs) and here but obviously the Monk in EQ2 is a lot different then the one in EQ1.  Im looking for a more dmg oriented Brawler which is why im here to find out what you guys who are Bruisers could help me out a little bit.</p><p>In the current state of the game how's an offensive specced/geared Bruiser vs a similarly geared/specced Monk?  Right now in a full set of RoK legendary gear + my Epic, Im parsing anywhere from 1400-2500 depending on the mob and depending on if I use Cooldowns(Chi).</p><p>What can you guys tell me about the Bruiser dps wise?  Ive spoken in-game to lvl 80 Bruisers who claim hey top the charts just behind Assassins and thats awesome.  From what Ive seen it seems Bruisers have more CA's and more deadly AoE's which is awesome.</p><p>Any helps appreciated guys,</p><p>thanks</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Superjoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What can you guys tell me about the Bruiser dps wise?  Ive spoken in-game to lvl 80 Bruisers who claim hey top the charts just behind Assassins and thats awesome. </p></blockquote><p>They're lieing.   Bruisers are mediocre DPS.</p>

[Superjoint]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Superjoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What can you guys tell me about the Bruiser dps wise?  Ive spoken in-game to lvl 80 Bruisers who claim hey top the charts just behind Assassins and thats awesome. </p></blockquote><p>They're lieing.   Bruisers are mediocre DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Well that's not that helpful...heh</p>

[Tanino]

<p>From my experience there is very little difference in actual dps output between the bruisers and monks when it comes to single target dps....atleast pre-mythical.  Now bruisers do have an advantage when it comes to multiple mob encounters due to their stronger aoe's and having two aoe taunts available for use but you don't appear to be concerned about tanking just dps.</p><p>As far as parsing as high as an assasin.... with equal buffs and gear an assasin would destroy a bruiser so I wouldn't try to rate yourself against them.</p>

[Aull]

<p>From my personal experience of all the classes in eq2 the two brawlers are the closest in everything that there is no need to actually have both.</p><p>Neither brawler can actually claim that one is hands and fists above the other at tanking, dps (single or multi target), utility, or solo. Again these two share so much that I find it a disappointment. Basically clones is all they are.</p><p>Equally geared and skilled assassins and the rogues will outparse bruisers hands down. I will say that even zerkers and sk's can match and beat on occasion similarly geared and skilled brawlers.</p><p>Honestly the two brawlers are in a state of disarray. Neither actually having anything that distinguishes them from each other while other fighters are doing a much better job if played correctly.</p><p>At the lower lvls this will not be as noticeable but at the end game it will become appearent.</p><p>When talking brawlers and betraying there is no greener grass on the other side.</p>

[Sidero]

<p>I can imagine that the bruiser and monk dps is probably about the same. My bruiser's dps varies from group to group. In a group with an illy or dirge I'm usually parsing anywhere from 1900-3000. With all the temporary buffs going (Chi, KO, etc) I've parsed anywhere from 3500-5000. My gear is decent, for a non-raid bruiser. Couple of shard armor pieces, couple of instance pieces, RoK gear, fabled epic... Bruisers > ALL!! :p</p><p>/ninjachop!</p><p>Sidero</p>

[Aull]

<p><cite>Sidero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can imagine that the bruiser and monk dps is probably about the same. My bruiser's dps varies from group to group. In a group with an illy or dirge I'm usually parsing anywhere from 1900-3000. With all the temporary buffs going (Chi, KO, etc) I've parsed anywhere from 3500-5000. My gear is decent, for a non-raid bruiser. Couple of shard armor pieces, couple of instance pieces, RoK gear, fabled epic... Bruisers > ALL!! :p</p><p>/ninjachop!</p><p>Sidero</p></blockquote><p> Bruisers can do nice burst damage with chi/knockout combo but again that is just a burst and not consistant. Monk dps is more consistant pull after pull after pull due to their high self haste and faster refreshing combat arts.</p><p>Of 13 damaging combat arts only 4 of the bruisers refresh at/under 30 seconds. The other 9 are 40 secs to 60 secs refresh leaving the bruiser only their slow auto attack to do damage.</p><p>Of 13 damaging combat arts for the monk 9 refresh at/under 30 seconds leaving only 4 combat arts that are 40 secs or higher refresh. With those faster refreshing ca's and the high haste it would appear that the monk is the offensive brawler.</p><p>These are the issues that the brawlers face. Identity issue inter-brawler. Monks and bruiser do share some traits but both need some type of true sub-class perks that the other brawler does not share. At lower lvls this may not be as noticable but end game with aa's both are so close in resemblance it defies having two brawlers.</p><p>The other issue would be identity issue inter-fighter. This is where both brawlers suffer in are they tanks or are they dps. While they are a fighter class they are behind the plate in true survivability yet their dps does not truely give them an edge when comparing them to the plates at least on raids.</p><p>That is my take on the brawlers.</p>

[Greavous]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">Rather than get into a really technical convo a very easy picture can be make on the difference between the 2 class’s</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">As Aull alluded to, Bruisers are all about burst dps and Monks are a more even consistent dps model. A Monk will generate around 60% of their damage from auto attack and the bruiser around 40%.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">This is the real difference because it defines their rolls more than any thing.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">I have played both classes and have had 4 bruisers which I play at different lvl’s and for different reasons. </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">There are two different situations here and I think they have to be separated or the classes don’t make sense.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">Heroic or Epic</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">Epic the two classes are about even. Maybe even slightly favouring the monk from a dps perspective (although I never get beaten by monks lol).</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">Both have less than affective epic tanking abilities but can fill the OT position adequately. Yes Brawlers can tank epic blah blah and I have done. But not as well as our plate brothers.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">BUT</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;">Heroic encounters are a different matter. Both can tank heroic instances as well if not better than any class apart form the devs favourite SK which appears to be SOE’s answer to WoW’s new class (rant off). The big difference is the fact that because most heroics have low health, mass burst dps is more important because the fight is very short. Its not till the mob is dead that the solid monk dps can become apparent. This makes, IMO the Bruiser hands down the better Heroic option.</span></span></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-weight: normal; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ;" ><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-NZ; mso-fareast-language: EN-GB; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-font-kerning: 8.0pt;" ><span style="font-size: small;">I would love to see Sony invest some real time into the two class’s and give them both a flavour that makes them really stand out. Having said that I love playing a Bruiser more than any class in game and I think I’ve played them all.</span></span></p>

[Aull]

<p>I would also like to mention that since bruisers have zero self auto attack enhancements that it allows the bruiser to have a much higher ceiling of dps improvement.</p><p>Monks should be better dps than a bruiser due to the haste factor. If both are capped on haste then the bruiser should be slightly ahead.</p><p>End game all fighters dps is very similar on raids at least. I see it that both brawlers should be ahead of the other fighters due to our lack of survivability as a trade off. Hopefully we will see a true dps advantage for brawlers in the future.</p><p>Like Brannigan I to enjoy my bruiser the most of all the classes I have played.</p>

[Pnaxx]

<p>I would stay with ur monk. There isn't that much difference. I am geared in 5 pices of T-2 shard stuff and pretty sweet jewlry, and without the dirge buffs in a raid, (im always in the fat group, no buffs really) I generally only get 2-3k dmg. Thats with epic fabled and a fabled in off hand. I have 2 setups and on raids I dps spec and stand in offensive stance of course. Sometimes the dmg is higher, but that is a general dps output. Oh, and thats with the Elixar of tactics up.</p><p>So, I would say it looks like you are fine. Wouldn't bother with it. I am bummed I even put so much time into this char at this point. Middle raod dps and sub par tanking. Have fun.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Superjoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Superjoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What can you guys tell me about the Bruiser dps wise?  Ive spoken in-game to lvl 80 Bruisers who claim hey top the charts just behind Assassins and thats awesome. </p></blockquote><p>They're lieing.   Bruisers are mediocre DPS.</p></blockquote><p>Well that's not that helpful...heh</p></blockquote><p>But it's true.</p>

[Bruiseyou2]

<p>In my opinion the monk epic is more annoying and harder to do then the bruiser. If you already went to the trouble to do the monk epic I'm not sure you would want to betray. I do play both a monk and a bruiser and I prefer the bruiser. (A lot of people asked me to betray but I didn't want to so I made a monk to appease them without losing my bruiser.) I like the faster recast of the heal, and despite the slower recast timeon CA's bruisers do have more of them then monks so I feel like that balances out. I think that haste is overrated and that is all that monks get over bruisers.</p><p>As far as dps I think that a properly played bruiser will out parse a properly played monk with equivelant gear and buffs. I haven't compared the two because my bruiser is far better geared then my monk. Monks do have Tsunami though you can't forget about that, it's a tuff thing to lose once you're used to having it.</p><p>The people that have already responded are right about the spike dmg though. Bruisers can burst out strong for single encounters. My fully fabled/mastered bruiser that isn't a full dps spec can burst for a little over 10k on palace raid trash when raid buffed. With the same buffs he can parse around 6k on average, without buffs 4k average with 6-7k spikes. My guilds raiding monk isn't as geared as my bruiser so I can't really compare the two for dps yet either. I can say however that our guilds monk that has lessser gear can compete with my bruiser on the average dps level, he just cant come close on the spikes. When compared to assassins on the fights where I'm breaking 10k our assassins with equal gear and buffs are pushing 17-18k. There is no comaprison you won't even get close to them so don't try its pointless to even discuss it.</p><p>Defensively if you are speced and geared right a Bruiser can offtank in a raid. The Bruiser gets an aa ability in the end TSO line that increases their gears mit value so that it is equivelant to chain. By coupling that with my Bruisers 85% avoidance I am able to do some offtanking in TSO raiding. I would never try to main tank any named encounters but picking up adds or grabbing the named for a few seconds while people get organized after an MT death is no big deal.</p><p>I'm saddened to see a lack of posts from raiding bruisers on these topics. It just goes to show that there are very few of us out there. I wouldn't mind seeing how others like my self are stacking up in dps and avoidance. I've always felt like I am an average player that is just a touch more then a casual player. I would love to see what a hard core player that takes the bruiser class seriously can do.</p><p>One last thing to keep in mind. I do also have the following lvl 80's Templar, Zerker, Dirge, Illusionist, Monk. All but two don't have Mythicals and the ones that dont are close to finishing them. They all have solid legendary gear and some raid gear. They all also have full ad3's or M1's. I know this sounds like I'm bragging but I just needed to make a point. As a raid bruiser I have to make myself helpfull to the guild. If I just present myself with a bruiser I will never get to raid with him. Howver If I can fill in with other classes at times when they need them then I've made myself usefull and they keep me around to keep gearing my bruiser. This is part of the reason why I have been succesfull at developing a raiding bruiser where most people complain that they can't even get in groups yet alone raids.</p><p>Soja of Najena</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Bruiseyou2 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In my opinion the monk epic is more annoying and harder to do then the bruiser. If you already went to the trouble to do the monk epic I'm not sure you would want to betray. I do play both a monk and a bruiser and I prefer the bruiser. (A lot of people asked me to betray but I didn't want to so I made a monk to appease them without losing my bruiser.) I like the faster recast of the heal, and despite the slower recast timeon CA's bruisers do have more of them then monks so I feel like that balances out. I think that haste is overrated and that is all that monks get over bruisers.</p><p>As far as dps I think that a properly played bruiser will out parse a properly played monk with equivelant gear and buffs. I haven't compared the two because my bruiser is far better geared then my monk. Monks do have Tsunami though you can't forget about that, it's a tuff thing to lose once you're used to having it.</p><p>The people that have already responded are right about the spike dmg though. Bruisers can burst out strong for single encounters. My fully fabled/mastered bruiser that isn't a full dps spec can burst for a little over 10k on palace raid trash when raid buffed. With the same buffs he can parse around 6k on average, without buffs 4k average with 6-7k spikes. My guilds raiding monk isn't as geared as my bruiser so I can't really compare the two for dps yet either. I can say however that our guilds monk that has lessser gear can compete with my bruiser on the average dps level, he just cant come close on the spikes. When compared to assassins on the fights where I'm breaking 10k our assassins with equal gear and buffs are pushing 17-18k. There is no comaprison you won't even get close to them so don't try its pointless to even discuss it.</p><p>Defensively if you are speced and geared right a Bruiser can offtank in a raid. The Bruiser gets an aa ability in the end TSO line that increases their gears mit value so that it is equivelant to chain. By coupling that with my Bruisers 85% avoidance I am able to do some offtanking in TSO raiding. I would never try to main tank any named encounters but picking up adds or grabbing the named for a few seconds while people get organized after an MT death is no big deal.</p><p>I'm saddened to see a lack of posts from raiding bruisers on these topics. It just goes to show that there are very few of us out there. I wouldn't mind seeing how others like my self are stacking up in dps and avoidance. I've always felt like I am an average player that is just a touch more then a casual player. I would love to see what a hard core player that takes the bruiser class seriously can do.</p><p>One last thing to keep in mind. I do also have the following lvl 80's Templar, Zerker, Dirge, Illusionist, Monk. All but two don't have Mythicals and the ones that dont are close to finishing them. They all have solid legendary gear and some raid gear. They all also have full ad3's or M1's. I know this sounds like I'm bragging but I just needed to make a point. As a raid bruiser I have to make myself helpfull to the guild. If I just present myself with a bruiser I will never get to raid with him. Howver If I can fill in with other classes at times when they need them then I've made myself usefull and they keep me around to keep gearing my bruiser. This is part of the reason why I have been succesfull at developing a raiding bruiser where most people complain that they can't even get in groups yet alone raids.</p><p>Soja of Najena</p></blockquote><p>pb, as you said is that people who have a bruiser usually play another class in raid. I would love to play with my bruiser and gear her up but if I raid, it's with my coercer. I can do as much dps and bring more to the raid.</p><p>Now our raiding monk is usually around 6-7 k in def gear. He prefers to keep the def gear in case things go wrong coz against trash, the OT is usually full off gear.</p><p>now as everybody said bruiser and monks are almost the same but monks have a little advantage for raids because they get a bit more utility. They can fd a group (not that usefull anymore but still), heal somebody, when you crit heal, you can refill the MT hp and save his life, so can be really helpfull while the bruiser heal, even if better, can only heal the bruiser.</p><p>In theory bruisers should be better tanks because they have nice solo buffs useless if not tanks (even in group ... the cc immunity, the solo heal, the solo fd, the magical stoneskin are useless when you dps). Monks on the other hand bring some utility to the group even if he is not mt.</p><p>some for raiding. So since both are very alike, it's more usefull to take a brawler that can heal, tank and dps than one that can only tank and dps, even if the dps is better.</p><p>still, I prefer the bruiser over the monk <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. He is cooler <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>