Agro Problems

[Wasuna]

<p>I see a bunch of posts here about this but I wanted to ask a specific question. Let me set the stage:</p><p>1. I usualy group with an 80 SK and others. I have better gear and more masters and such and I have much better tanking stats, therefore I tank. I have to work hard to keep agro off him on single targets to the point that I take Moderate off the Conjour and put it on him. I still have trouble. I have the nuke/taunt at the end of the Shadows AA line and with that, rescue, reinforcement and the other Shadows Rescue thing I can still lose agro to him on a single target.</p><p>I figured his DPS was way over mine so I downloaded a parse and his DPS is usually 20-40% higher then mine.</p><p>This situation is very frustrating to me. I figure with Moderate on him, even if he is for some reason taunting I should be able to keep agro easily. I can't.</p><p>Group mobs.. Ha! Just forget it. I give up and hope the healer can keep him up. Even with reinforcement and my multiple AOE's I have NO chance to keep agro. Period. None. I have tried over and over and I just give up.</p><p>2. I went and did some writs with a level 69 SK in my guild. We were grouped with his wife who is a 62 Inquisitor. I mentored him and we were killing green ^^^. I was in FULL offensive with my mythical/Fabled off hand sword. I have MUCH better stats than this guy. I couldn't keep agro off him even taunting and using all my abilities. He was probably taunting but I couldn't do a darn thing to keep agro. I'd use rescue and all the stuff I had and it would bounce back and forth until I ran out of buttons to click and then it would slam onto him.</p><p>My question. I'm happy for the ability of my friends and Guildmates but is this the state of a Guardian? I'm NOT going to reroll but I wanted to know if this is what I just have to be happy with. From the other threads I suspect the answer is yes but I wanted to check again.</p><p>Thanks in advance.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>No, something is busted with SK's.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Actually I was going to make the following post in here today and is related:</p><p><span ><p>I'm MT guard with 47% hate mod, and a swash and coercer transfer.</p><p>SK is in mage group with <10% hate mod from aa, no transfers, no hate buffs.</p><p>I'm going all out, all taunts, using snaps as hate is lost and/or as the hate meter indicates an impending hate loss (watching 2nd hate position grow by 3pts/ sec from 90-99).</p><p>I'm OUTPARSING the sk by 600 dps (~10%).  I'm using all dps and all taunts available.  I'm getting transfers, hate mod, and I'm a guard so I get additional hate each time I'm hit.</p><p>The SK is using his encounter taunt only, cause it is a resist debuff for his damage type.</p><p>The SK consistently rips aggro from me under the above conditions as true.</p><p>He and I have been working the issue since GU51 came out, and we've been unable to explain it or trace it down. It isn't something as simple as deathmarch or anything like it.</p><p>Simply put, he's generating more hate with less mod, no transfers, almost no taunts, and less dps than MT.</p><p>Seriously, something is bonkers with hate since gu51.</p></span></p>

[Steve11418]

<p>I just posted somthing similar on the Paladin forums.</p><p>I have all T2 Shard gear except 3 x T3 bits. I have a mythical and half mastered.</p><p>I am a Paladin with amends on an assassin and have a dirge. I am hitting 4k ZW DPS, Assassin is 10k ZW. Hate buff from the dirge.</p><p>Shadow knight with Dirge only... no hate buff... if about 3.3K ZW dps.</p><p>Shadow knight rips aggro every fight... I hit Holyground... aggro bounce back and fourth unitl Holyground runs out... then he has it.</p><p>He has his fabled epic and T1 shard armor, mostly adept 3.</p><p>I am not understanding how this is working... so it goto be somthing busted with an SK ability that is moving them hate positions?</p>

[thial]

<p>With the new hate meter its even more evident that something is not right...I can sit at 100% hate I watch the second number which should be the sk chill at 70% ish than all of a sudden bam I'm at 95% I rescue I get the mob back and the Sk is at 95% or higher than all of a sudden Im back to 90% and the sk has the mob...The sk's not taunting or using rescues just DPS'ing...Now on the flip side if the zerker gets agro I rescue his hate is dropped down to the 70's and everything is fine. I don't mind when fighters get agro it happens as long as the tools giving to me actually work, in the case of the sk getting agro it does not work. Sk seems to be the only class that If I rescue is still in the 90's. The amount of hate they produce is just insane, even the sk in raid agrees. I'm ready to put the towel up when it comes to trash mobs if my guild leader wants to, till something is done, but I'm not holding my breath.</p>

[Vodr]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually I was going to make the following post in here today and is related:</p><p><span><p>I'm MT guard with 47% hate mod, and a swash and coercer transfer.</p><p>SK is in mage group with <10% hate mod from aa, no transfers, no hate buffs.</p><p>I'm going all out, all taunts, using snaps as hate is lost and/or as the hate meter indicates an impending hate loss (watching 2nd hate position grow by 3pts/ sec from 90-99).</p><p>I'm OUTPARSING the sk by 600 dps (~10%).  I'm using all dps and all taunts available.  I'm getting transfers, hate mod, and I'm a guard so I get additional hate each time I'm hit.</p><p>The SK is using his encounter taunt only, cause it is a resist debuff for his damage type.</p><p>The SK consistently rips aggro from me under the above conditions as true.</p><p>He and I have been working the issue since GU51 came out, and we've been unable to explain it or trace it down. It isn't something as simple as deathmarch or anything like it.</p><p>Simply put, he's generating more hate with less mod, no transfers, almost no taunts, and less dps than MT.</p><p>Seriously, something is bonkers with hate since gu51.</p></span></p></blockquote><p>You never mentioned if the SK has his epic or not,  depending on the AA spec SK's get a good deal of lifetaps which when the epic procs causes 100% more hate as the lifetap amount.</p><p>If the SK is placing his ward on you and his epic procs then all of the hate also should go onto the SK which is what may be causing the issue.  If he has his epic (either fabled or mythical) have him swap it out and test again.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p>-------</p><p>You never mentioned if the SK has his epic or not,  depending on the AA spec SK's get a good deal of lifetaps which when the epic procs causes 100% more hate as the lifetap amount.</p><p>If the SK is placing his ward on you and his epic procs then all of the hate also should go onto the SK which is what may be causing the issue.  If he has his epic (either fabled or mythical) have him swap it out and test again.</p><p>-------</p><p>Those might be reasonable things to try if the problem was a minor one. I put Moderate on a NON-Epic SK, had close to the same DPS and could NOT keep agro off him even using Rescue, the Shadowline AA Rescue (looks like an arrow in the hot bar), the Shadowline AA Rescue that holds the mob for 10 seconds and the end of the line nuke with taunt and dot taunt. To be honest I always keep one of the rescues up to rescue off a healer if need be so I only used 3 of possible 4 rescue type spells and a nuke taunt and all my regular tuants.</p><p>Once he gets better gear I'll just play Plate DPS and let him tank.</p><p>Funny thing. The level 80 SK went to help the level 69 (now 70) guildmate SK last night. He mentored down and was in defensive tanking. Later on he was complaining about the level 70 SK ripping agro off him all the time getting people killed. I made a comment about how challenging tanking with a SK in the group as DPS is.</p>

[vinere]

<p>one of the SK spells got changed in GU51, i used to be a dumbire pet, its now the best tanking Ability in game by far, hands down, pwns all other things..</p><p>Its basically an AE that applies a buff to ALL MOBs in the area... when any mob is hit, it has a 33% chance to +1hate position for the SK, and some added hate gain..... Basically once casted, for the next 30 sec, he has total aggro lock on all mobs in the area... and you cant do jack sqaut about it.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>nvm</p>

[Vodr]

<p>It wasn't a GU51 update,  they changed from dumbfire way back to it's current iteration.  Just tell your friendly SK that the purple button is BAD when he's not tanking.</p>

[Korargl]

<p>*shrug* same thing here.  We run VP a bit, I'm MT, with 491 agression and 68% hate mod.  Recently I can't hold aggro from our SK.  Love the guy just hate what Guards have become, it's aggro ping pong out there.</p><p>I've 200 AA's and all that, all taunts mastered etc.  You would think that as a guard you could lock down a mob and that's it.  I don't get why we have so many rescue abilities (5 or 6 counting reinforcement), it's like the devs expect us to lose aggro so they give us tools to get it back.</p><p>We work together so I'm not too fussed, as long as the mob is on a tank I don't really mind.  On named fights he knows to back off but I would not have a SK in my group at the moment, there is no point.  Guardian = low DPS so if I'm not tanking then I'm a wasted group spot.</p><p>Korargl</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Aerilik is an idiot.</p></blockquote><p>Sadly, the one thing we can all agree on.</p>

[babygirl56]

<p>Something I noticed while looking thru my ACT logs...the "Holding the Line" proc appears to be consistently resisted by every mob that hits me...could that be the reason for the guardian's latest aggro issues?</p><p>Can anybody check their logs and confirm this?</p>

[steelbadger]

<p>That's because threat increasing abilities only register in the log when they are resisted.  This means that it looks like every single taunt is resisted 100% of the time (unless you have damage added to your taunts).  This is unchanged.  I had hoped that hate parsing would be introduced with GU51 but no such luck <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I had this problem last night, the SK was OK on trash (VP), well, no worse than a paladin for pulling aggro but when he was tanking the adds on silverwing he pulled silverwing, rescue, back to SK.  Sneering, back to SK.  Reinforcement, flick from me to SK for reinforcement duration and end up killing SK.</p><p>That ability is hideously overpowered at the moment:</p><ul><li>Increases Threat to targets in Area of Effect by 3,717-4,543 </li><li>When target takes any damage this spell has a 33% chance to cast Sacrifice on target's attacker. <ul><li>Increases threat priority of target by 1 position </li></ul> </li><li>Inflicts 1,209-1,813 disease damage on targets in Area of Effect </li></ul><p>It's not the threat bit.  It's the increase threat priority that I reckon is broken.  It is hitting every mob in it's 25 meter range (this ability has no maximum to the number of targets) and <em>every</em> time <em>any</em> of those mobs is damaged by <em>anything</em> it increases the SKs hate position.  This is why the ability isn't all that when the SK is actually tanking, because all that is happening is the hate position increase; no threat increase to go with it and keep the SK there.  The reason it's so effective when the SK isn't tanking is because the person who's supposed to be tanking then blows all of their hate increasers (which instantly get overwritten by the SK hate position increase, procced almost instantly as mobs take a lot of hits very fast) and the SK is left sitting at the top of the aggro pile by a long way.</p><p>It even overwrites Cry of the Warrior and Peel.</p>

[Prestissimo]

<p>Thats just plain rediculous that a spell ever be allowed to get to that level of overpoweredness.  +5 fail testing team.</p><p>On the other hand though, I'm not entirely sure it is only that spell that is causing issues since I've run with a shadowknight several times and even without grave sacrement, the shadowknight still has unexplicably large hate gains.  No where near the level of GS, but it seems like the shadowknight has some type of innate higher hate gain even beyond the fact that compared to other fighters they currently have stronger <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">spells, combat arts,</span> everything.  I can't say how much, but there is definately something not balanced because point for point adding up all the hate from the chat and cross referenced to ACT and everything else durring a fight, the shadowknight I run with somehow ends up with a bigger gap between him and other group memebers than the numbers are showing he should have.</p>

[Aven Elonis]

<p>Same issue here. The only person that pulls aggro on me are SKs on the raid (and the occasionally 40 or 50K hit by an assassin or wizard LOL).</p><p>As described above, at 100 on threat, SK at 70 to 80, and then bam I'm at 80 or so, and I'm using any one or two of my rescue spells, and the aggro will still ping pong.</p><p>He's not casting aggro spells, but pretty much every time Death March is cast is it seems to cause a threat flip that is like a rescue spell all on it own. Sigh.</p>

[Moralpanic]

<p>Welcome to the club. On raid, i do up to 50% more damage than the SK, and that's not taking into account my hate transfers, and i still lose aggro to the SK. But when the SK has to tank, like in Byzola fight, he can't keep aggro. Something is seriously messed up.</p><p>I've pretty much gave up on trying to steal back aggro with my rescues and such, since they don't even work when the SK peels the aggro off me. He's a tank, so he can tank it... if not, then he dies.</p>

[Mulethree]

<p><cite>babygirl56 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Something I noticed while looking thru my ACT logs...the "Holding the Line" proc appears to be consistently resisted by every mob that hits me...could that be the reason for the guardian's latest aggro issues?</p><p>Can anybody check their logs and confirm this?</p></blockquote><p>Testing the hate changes in february, you could see both Holding the Line and Aggressive Nature hate procs.  With the agro-logging they had in test you would see them hit under the hate section of parser and see the misses in the damage section as resists.   I was testing on heroic white mobs spawned by the guildhall conjuror amenity and getting 30%+ resists.</p><p>It makes sense that it would resist even more against an orange epic mob, But I don't think it does.  Here's a fight where I blocked 49 times and there are 6 resists from aggressive nature (12% resisted) .  I got hit 115 times - Holding the line should have proc'd about 63 times, and I show 16 resists (25% resisted).  Thats a long raid boss fight with full debuffing.</p><p>When damaged - holding the line procs 55% of the time for 797 hate  - we avoid like 60% (actually, including stoneskins, cleric blocking, a 2nd fighters avoidance -  not the supposed 77% from the persona screen) - so this fires on about 22% of mob swings - about 6x a minute vs a single mob.  thats about 5,000 hate per minute if it never resists -  83 hate per second.  So its maybe 2% of your hate - tho actually lower as it resists so much. </p><p>Aggressive nature is a TSO warrior line AA that adds on to that - it procs about 600 hate when you block.  5 blocks per minute?  = 3000/minute or 50 hate per second - minus resists.</p><p>So yeah I think it does resist too much.  But its also rather weak for taking a concentration slot and all.  Maybe if it scaled with the size of the hit you took? Maybe if it triggered off stoneskinned hits and ripostes and such?  Maybe if its proc was 5x stronger?</p>