opinions of Ward of Elements Difficulty. [Archive]

therodge

04-01-2009, 02:30 PM

i know their are alot of threads that discuss WoE but none that that are directly discussing its difficulty.please post weather you think itsZOMG WAY TO HARDZ11111really hardhardjust a little to hardright were it should bekinda too easytoo easyor LOOT PINATAZ FTL!!!!!and why? personally i think the trash should have their aoes reduced by 50% and honestly nothing in this zone should be hitting harder then PR mobs, pr being a x4 although an easy x4, is easier 2 grouped then WoE which really makes little sence, considering i have 1 grouped pr and got smacked by the waterlord is just stupid

Gaige

04-01-2009, 02:35 PM

You realize nothing in PR has critical attacks right.

Geothe

04-01-2009, 02:38 PM

quit trying to use basic logic Gage.its a lost cause.

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 02:49 PM

I think it's pretty hard. I had over 20k HP and 76% avoidance, 2 healers with mythical epic weapons, and a dirge and I was going down quite often. It was a pug, but still. I know my guild is definately casual and if I were to take them in there we'd get owned on the trash mobs.

FellwyndSunstorm

04-01-2009, 03:17 PM

Brutal. I have TSO gear, and the rest of the raid had mostly fabled raid gear, half had their mythicals. We were organized, with a healthy 16k hp SK tank in fabled gear and repaired near breaking 3 times and still didn't get past the 3rd boss in 2 hours. Obviously the comment made about creating a dungeon for non-raid geared players was an April Fools joke. Good one, SOE!

therodge

04-01-2009, 03:46 PM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize nothing in PR has critical attacks right.</blockquote>well aware of this, my point was that things in the x2 shouldent be hitting harder then named in pr not that they are not

Couching

04-01-2009, 04:02 PM

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize nothing in PR has critical attacks right.</blockquote>well aware of this, my point was that things in the x2 shouldent be hitting harder then named in pr not that they are not</blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots. Though, considering casual players, the difficulty is right where it should be.

Apos

04-01-2009, 04:12 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize nothing in PR has critical attacks right.</blockquote>well aware of this, my point was that things in the x2 shouldent be hitting harder then named in pr not that they are not</blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots. Though, considering casual players, the difficulty is right where it should be.</blockquote>First few mobs I think are about the same as kluzen, ekron, and the easy mobs of vp though. The harder ones are harder than SW, trak, druushk, nexona. Let's face it, anyone that could kill aiden or whatever could probably kill trakanon with like 8 or 9 people.

Couching

04-01-2009, 04:25 PM

Most named in X2 are much easier than easy named in VP.Most named are tank and spank except Digg and Aiden. (Not hard but tricky)Not to say, I doubt there is any team can kill trak with 8 or 9 ppls since that fight is timed.For Aiden, it is very easy after figuring out how to kill it.If you were fighting with 1x+ heroic in that fight, you were missing something.Without those heroic adds, Aiden is LOOT PINATAZ.

therodge

04-01-2009, 04:40 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>You realize nothing in PR has critical attacks right.</blockquote>well aware of this, my point was that things in the x2 shouldent be hitting harder then named in pr not that they are not</blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots. Though, considering casual players, the difficulty is right where it should be.</blockquote>heres the problem, i have along with more then half the raid cleared vp, some of these mobs hit as hard as vp mobs which is supposedly a x4 raid, We had litterally a perfect raid setup, the trash aoes harder then vp mobs do, and if you are clearing vp this zone wasent deseigned with that loot in mind, i can honestly say, it would be easier to pickup raid vp and most likly clear up to silvering or phara, then to pickup this zone, now if you take into concideration players arnt supposed to have myths that means, that mobs like nexicona are too hard for them to beat and this zone should be easier then that correct?

Tehom

04-01-2009, 04:41 PM

It's a tricky balancing act when you think about who they're designed for - it was said specifically that it was designed for players without raid gear/mythicals. The last few x2s are certainly harder to two group than the first three mobs in Hate, and that's about the same range as most casual raids I'd think. So in that respect I think it could use a little tuning.

Gaige

04-01-2009, 04:49 PM

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote>the trash aoes harder then vp mobs do</blockquote>Only the tank should get hit by the trashes AOE. Its only cast on incoming and its range based.

therodge

04-01-2009, 04:51 PM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote>the trash aoes harder then vp mobs do</blockquote>Only the tank should get hit by the trashes AOE. Its only cast on incoming and its range based.</blockquote>well thats partially incorrect, the aoes are on a 1 minute timer, which i only learned on a ad pull and revorvery took a sec, and fight lasted a little longer then i was hopeing but can the water mobs be ranged, had everyone try and range it but were getting hit anyway

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 04:52 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots.</blockquote>Then they should also revamp lower tier content so that solo trash hits harder than x4 contested like Vox and Venekor. The loot you get off solo mobs is far better than the loot that drops off these epic named, so the solo mobs are way too easy.

Couching

04-01-2009, 04:56 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots.</blockquote>Then they should also revamp lower tier content so that solo trash hits harder than x4 contested like Vox and Venekor. The loot you get off solo mobs is far better than the loot that drops off these epic named, so the solo mobs are way too easy.</blockquote>Why?PR and X2 are for lv80 players. Vox and Venekor are not.

Jacobian21

04-01-2009, 04:56 PM

Keep in mind also, these zones are supposed to give upgrades for people with T2 void gear NOT raid gear. With that in mind, I think the zone is too rough on people who don't have raid gear already (which defeats the purpose since those people have x4 raid gear and won't need x2 raid gear).

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 04:57 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots.</blockquote>Then they should also revamp lower tier content so that solo trash hits harder than x4 contested like Vox and Venekor. The loot you get off solo mobs is far better than the loot that drops off these epic named, so the solo mobs are way too easy.</blockquote>Why?PR and X2 are for lv80 players. Vox and Venekor are not.</blockquote>What difference does that make? Level 50 players kill level 50 mobs. Level 80 players kill level 80 mobs. What's your point?

Antas22

04-01-2009, 05:01 PM

Overall, I'd say the difficulty is perfect for the range. The exception being Digg, who I suspect is just broken. He simply wouldn't take the snake, and healed close to 40k HPS as a result. Even with 45k+ RW DPS, it was impossible to kill him (get him to 60, he calls for snake, set snake down, 20 seconds later he's healed to 80). Every other named we fought was pretty much cake though, which is pretty much what you'd expect from this for a raid made up of mythicalled/raid geared characters.Love the design on the trash though, wish more raid trash was like that: low HP, but able to kick out some DPS so as to not be completely pointless. How much greater would VP be if trash were like that (and thus wasn't a HUGE timesink).

Vain

04-01-2009, 05:05 PM

x2 should not be easy and nor should the x2 require you to be VP geared. The key here is that the shard armour for TSO offers Critical Mitigation (something the RoK stuff isn't going to have) which should soften the blows somewhat.The other key here is that casual guilds should not be expecting to walk into this zone and clear it on release day. There should be (and hopefully there is based on the feedback so far) some progression here. Kill first 3 nameds. Farm them for upgrades and progress thru the final more difficult encounters.Calling for nerfs on Day 2 is pretty silly, imo.

Couching

04-01-2009, 05:18 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I disagree.X2 loots are by far better than loots in PR. X2 loots are on par with loots in VP.Considering risk vs rewards, X2 is kinda too easy for casual raiders since X2 is easier than VP but with same quality loots.</blockquote>Then they should also revamp lower tier content so that solo trash hits harder than x4 contested like Vox and Venekor. The loot you get off solo mobs is far better than the loot that drops off these epic named, so the solo mobs are way too easy.</blockquote>Why?PR and X2 are for lv80 players. Vox and Venekor are not.</blockquote>What difference does that make? Level 50 players kill level 50 mobs. Level 80 players kill level 80 mobs. What's your point?</blockquote>So you are against they fixed the mistake they made. You want X2, better loots, be easier than PR. Got you.And I am agianst your opinion.

Jacobian21

04-01-2009, 05:21 PM

Only slightly off-topic... does anyone know if you can only get certain T3 set piece molds off specific named in there? I mean, if you are farming the first 2 or 3 nameds to get geared up to clear the rest of the zone, will you ALWAYS only get the same 2-3 slot pieces? or can you manage to get a full T3 set by running the zone enough and only doing the first 3 named? (I'm semi-lazy, so I would prefer that option) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vain

04-01-2009, 05:24 PM

I don't know for sure, but I would expect molds for the same slot to drop from specific nameds. Like boots ---> hands ---> helm ---> legs ---> chest kinda thing. I dunno though.

therodge

04-01-2009, 05:32 PM

<cite>Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>x2 should not be easy and nor should the x2 require you to be VP geared. The key here is that the shard armour for TSO offers Critical Mitigation (something the RoK stuff isn't going to have) which should soften the blows somewhat.The other key here is that casual guilds should not be expecting to walk into this zone and clear it on release day. There should be (and hopefully there is based on the feedback so far) some progression here. Kill first 3 nameds. Farm them for upgrades and progress thru the final more difficult encounters.Calling for nerfs on Day 2 is pretty silly, imo.</blockquote>calling nerfs on day 2 from people who were only getting minimal if any upgrades from this zone isnt silly, if my raid which was comprimised of mostly mythed players most in raid gear cant take some of these mobs after learning the strats thats just blatently retarted people dont understand the diffrence gear makes, after faming tso for months along with my myth and other things being in litterally the best possibly gear for a group person + my myth i was probobly the 3rd or second least geared person in raid, this content should have been trivial with this raid, in my gear i can solo coa? why becuase the zone is beneathe my gear level, but a fresh 80 in mastercrafted could get 4 shotted by last named if not less why? becuase his gear is under mine. now im not saying you should beable to completely ignore the strats and im not saying it should be cake, but it sure as heck shouldent be difficult for people who are geared past the zoneedit: So you are against they fixed the mistake they made. You want X2, better loots, be easier than PR. Got you.And I am agianst your opinion.no the strats alone make it harder then pr, and fact is it still wouldent be easier then pr if you brought the mobs down to pr level concidering doing pr being a x4 would be less difficult then a x2 of the same exsact mob stats and strats.Here is were you can disagree with me, I beileve if you can 2 group and clear A x4 of the same teir you should beable to group the x2 with at max the same amount of resistance if you want to argue that then i will concede to a difference in opinion on game mechanicsnote: i went and asked 10 guilds on my server how much dps their guild was putting out on average 5 casual 5 raidcasual:28k35k40k22k35kraid140k175k+ (their words so not sure how to take that)180k100k80knotice the diffrence? at best that means casuals guilds might be throwing out 25k zws hell even if u push it and say they will pull 30k this zone will be most likly unduable. another major factor is how much healing a healer can put out with a non mythed tank, i 100% beileve this is a great zone with alot of potential, strats are great, things work, but mobs hit just way to hard for any healer in non raid gear to heal. im not saying they should nerf it to crap, but a 20% reduction in named mob damage and maybe an additional 10 seconds on the add spawns on the fire elemental and maybe a reduction on trash aoe damage this zone would probobly be perfectif u can 2 group a x4 you you should beable to 2 group a x2 of the same teir no questions asked thants my opinion.

Vain

04-01-2009, 05:41 PM

Are these numbers x2 or x4 numbers or a mixture of both and what sort of raid set-ups were they talking about? The variance seems pretty drastic, imo. I mean if you want to compare the ZW for a raidforce with 6-fighters and one bard to a ZW for a fully balanced raidforce it's like apples to oranges.And if you are "geared past the zone" and it isn't trivial then I wonder what the difference might be between your raidforce and the other raidforces that have already cleared it? Execution?Again, calling for nerfs on Day 2 is the biggest of the April Fool's jokes here I think.

therodge

04-01-2009, 05:45 PM

<cite>Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are these numbers x2 or x4 numbers or a mixture of both and what sort of raid set-ups were they talking about? The variance seems pretty drastic, imo. I mean if you want to compare the ZW for a raidforce with 6-fighters and one bard to a ZW for a fully balanced raidforce it's like apples to oranges.those are x4 numbers and i have no idea what raid setup each guild was useing nore does it matter, a x2 geared twords casuals, and whatever casuals are useing currently should be enough to make good headway on the zone im not saying they should clear it first time, im just saying they should beable o get the first couple named and make ample progress right now they might get first named but they wont make any progress until they have past the usefullness of the zone. vp gear is still better then alot of the gear in this zone yet it seems like you have to have to be that far up progression before you could truly push through this zone. Casuals are casuals, and i know alot of people will want to throw out their well if they dont want to put in the time and effort to recruit the proper classess blah blah, well guess what THATS NOT A CASUAL WAY OF THINKING. period, i am not casual, i can raid with other guilds if i want first im my guild to get a myth first to get all my teir 2 shard armor, first to setup a raid that could clear levi, and im the first person to make a perfct raid setup and will only bring certain classes to my groups, but my guild is casual, and when i group with them as sometimes as infuration as it seems, family guilds have a tendancy to want to bring evryone and leave no one behind, that is their mindset and that is the mindsett this zone should be designed around, u take who u can get get a couple named get a few upgrades and try again next week casuals shouldent go in and get violated in the zone under no circumstantances.And if you are "geared past the zone" and it isn't trivial then I wonder what the difference might be between your raidforce and the other raidforces that have already cleared it? Execution?Again, calling for nerfs on Day 2 is the biggest of the April Fool's jokes here I think.</blockquote>theirs gearedpast a zone, i for instance am geared past forge, but take someone in full top end tso gear and they will clear it faster and better. id like to know if anyone who's guild hasent cleared vp has had their guild beat this zone.

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 06:23 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are against they fixed the mistake they made. You want X2, better loots, be easier than PR. Got you.And I am agianst your opinion.</blockquote>I didn't know there was a mistake that was fixed in the first place. I never said anything about PR. You are one of the people comparing TSO difficulty and loot to RoK difficulty and loot. Of course TSO loot will be better than RoK loot. T1 shard gear and drops in Scion of Ice are better than most of the PR loot. I was pointing out that if the devs based risk vs reward on your opinion, they would need to make level 45 solo mobs harder than level 55x4 mobs because the loot is better from solo mobs at that level. In Ward of Elements I think the mobs hit too hard for the players the zone was targetted to. And I fully disagree with your opinion.

timetravelling

04-01-2009, 06:26 PM

<cite>Kalandre@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Overall, I'd say the difficulty is perfect for the range. The exception being Digg, who I suspect is just broken. He simply wouldn't take the snake, and healed close to 40k HPS as a result. Even with 45k+ RW DPS, it was impossible to kill him (get him to 60, he calls for snake, set snake down, 20 seconds later he's healed to 80). Every other named we fought was pretty much cake though, which is pretty much what you'd expect from this for a raid made up of mythicalled/raid geared characters.Love the design on the trash though, wish more raid trash was like that: low HP, but able to kick out some DPS so as to not be completely pointless. How much greater would VP be if trash were like that (and thus wasn't a HUGE timesink).</blockquote>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff? Do you perhaps have an ACT parse you could check? I'll try to track this discrepancy down and figure out what is causing it when it occurs.Digg Was killed several times, so it doesn't appear to be 100%, but I definitely don't want to accidentally frustrate unlucky guilds! Any info you can provide would be great, thank you =)As for the difficulty discussions - we are keeping a careful eye on it and will make adjustments as we feel are needed. Remember though that the first night through a new zone is typically the hardest, and most all of the fights are constructed such that an excellent strategy helps lessen the gear requirements. Good luck and happy hunting!

Hecula

04-01-2009, 06:29 PM

Names are too easy except Digg - most are tank and spank or deal with adds type. Digg is fun - leave it alone.Trash is just annoying. Not hard. Not creative. Just annoying. And repetitive. Once you get the schtick of "cure this in 5 seconds or you die" detrimentals and pet pulling it's just monotonous. Would like to see them "adjusted" to perhaps hit harder and have the AOE do less damage per tick.

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 06:35 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for the difficulty discussions - we are keeping a careful eye on it and will make adjustments as we feel are needed. Remember though that the first night through a new zone is typically the hardest, and most all of the fights are constructed such that an excellent strategy helps lessen the gear requirements. Good luck and happy hunting!</blockquote>Well that's good because when you have a tank over 20k hp and 76% avoidance and experienced raiders playing a templar and defiler with raid gear and mythical epics, and the tank is getting crushed like a beer can, maybe the zone is a hair too hard for casual guilds.Also keep in mind a casual guild probably won't have an ideal setup every time. They will probably sometimes be trying to get something done with 4 or 5 fighters that all want to go, and might be lucky to have a bard or enchanter available, much less 2 of each. And there's probably a good chance they won't be able to get the same people each time. Of course there are many definitions of casual... it is possible to have a casual guild with the best heroic obtained gear in the game, that can get 12 of the right classes to go each time. But those guilds often develop into full blown raid guilds and don't stay in that bracket for very long.The only people complaining the zone is too easy from what I've seen have been players in raiding guilds. It reminds me of when they released the Domini for casual guilds and full raid guilds complained they were too easy. They are designed to be challenging to players that don't have raid gear, so of course they should be easy to a group with some of the best gear in the game.

Sithal

04-01-2009, 06:39 PM

We fought Digg for a while and never got any debuff. We didn't have 12 people so just bursting through wasn't an option. As far as I could tell nothing happened whenever we placed the snake (which we did many times as we fought him for over 30 minutes in one encounter). Figured it was bugged and the people who killed it just were able to DPS through the regen. That is assuming that the correct way to place the snake is right at Digg himself.

feldon30

04-01-2009, 06:47 PM

You just about need 40k dps to bring down Tairiza as an x4 raid force and that's T1. If that helps in your calculations. I would hope a raid force is not in T2 Kunark or VP and unable to put out 50-60k dps.

Lader

04-01-2009, 06:50 PM

i was playing my defiler but was keeping an eye on the debuffs on Digg. Only once did we get a bunch of the reddish skull debuff proc on him, we got one or two a second time but thats all. Even with the multiple procs he was healing high up.

timetravelling

04-01-2009, 06:53 PM

Hm, thanks!I'll look into the snake totem and make sure it is working as intended. And if it's not...whoop it into shape. =P

Couching

04-01-2009, 06:53 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you are against they fixed the mistake they made. You want X2, better loots, be easier than PR. Got you.And I am agianst your opinion.</blockquote>I didn't know there was a mistake that was fixed in the first place. I never said anything about PR. You are one of the people comparing TSO difficulty and loot to RoK difficulty and loot. Of course TSO loot will be better than RoK loot. T1 shard gear and drops in Scion of Ice are better than most of the PR loot. I was pointing out that if the devs based risk vs reward on your opinion, they would need to make level 45 solo mobs harder than level 55x4 mobs because the loot is better from solo mobs at that level. In Ward of Elements I think the mobs hit too hard for the players the zone was targetted to. And I fully disagree with your opinion.</blockquote>That's why I said they didn't make the same mistake they made before in X2; they made it harder than PR since X2 has better loots.For mobs hitting too hard, I disagree. People already farmed PR by one group with T2 shard armor. With T2 armor, you can farm first 3-4 named in X2 and geared up for harder named in the same instance. X2 difficulty is on where it should be.Asking nerf just because you got owned on the first run is silly.

Antas22

04-01-2009, 06:53 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kalandre@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Overall, I'd say the difficulty is perfect for the range. The exception being Digg, who I suspect is just broken. He simply wouldn't take the snake, and healed close to 40k HPS as a result. Even with 45k+ RW DPS, it was impossible to kill him (get him to 60, he calls for snake, set snake down, 20 seconds later he's healed to 80). Every other named we fought was pretty much cake though, which is pretty much what you'd expect from this for a raid made up of mythicalled/raid geared characters.Love the design on the trash though, wish more raid trash was like that: low HP, but able to kick out some DPS so as to not be completely pointless. How much greater would VP be if trash were like that (and thus wasn't a HUGE timesink).</blockquote>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff? Do you perhaps have an ACT parse you could check? I'll try to track this discrepancy down and figure out what is causing it when it occurs.Digg Was killed several times, so it doesn't appear to be 100%, but I definitely don't want to accidentally frustrate unlucky guilds! Any info you can provide would be great, thank you =)As for the difficulty discussions - we are keeping a careful eye on it and will make adjustments as we feel are needed. Remember though that the first night through a new zone is typically the hardest, and most all of the fights are constructed such that an excellent strategy helps lessen the gear requirements. Good luck and happy hunting!</blockquote>Is this proc effect Withering Venom (which is the only effect in my DPS I'm seeing on his fights and not others)? If so, he was most certainly being hit very often by it, but was still healing at an incredible rate. I know my guild had a group that went in and was able to take him down, but the semi-pickup collaberation of various raid guilds I went with pulled him about 15 times with no success.

Sithal

04-01-2009, 06:58 PM

Yeah I am showing Withering Venom for almost 680 DPS over a 24 minute fight. 1512 hits - but it never stopped his healing as far as I noticed. We were able to burst him down to about 30% and hold him under 40 for a long time, but couldn't go lower with the force we had (bunch of boxed alts).

Rahatmattata

04-01-2009, 07:30 PM

<cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>That's why I said they didn't make the same mistake they made before in X2; they made it harder than PR since X2 has better loots.For mobs hitting too hard, I disagree. People already farmed PR by one group with T2 shard armor. With T2 armor, you can farm first 3-4 named in X2 and geared up for harder named in the same instance. X2 difficulty is on where it should be.Asking nerf just because you got owned on the first run is silly.</blockquote>That's nice. We'll see what the devs think in a couple of weeks.

Caethre

04-01-2009, 07:33 PM

((This zone was stated as being aimed at more casual-style players without raid gear. I interpret that to mean, those who are kitted out in Tier2 shard armour and Fabled epics, but without TSO fabled raidgear or mythical weapons.I actually went on a x2 raid last night with my monk. She *is* mythical-equipped now, and has a couple of items of fabled raidgear, but otherwise is in Tier2 shard armour. The other eleven people, a pickup of people wanting to go, included 7 other mythical wielders, including the main tank, many of whom had considerable amounts of fabled from VP or TSO or both, and a few of whom are from various raidguilds on the server. In short, a force that was (supposedly) overmatched for the zone. According to SOE's stated target audience.The reality was different. We defeated one named, the melee one on the right-hand side near the entrance. The tempest creature and the fire elemental named defeated us many times. Even the trash wiped us a good few times, due to the amount they hit for putting down our myth/fabled-armour raider-tank in a few seconds. We are not talking a group of newbies here, this may have been a group not ideally set up or of people who usually work together, but it was a powerful force (compared to what a true casual force would have been like).My assessment (and that of the entire group I was with, at least of those who spoke on the issue) is that this instance, although definitely fun, is WAY too hard for its stated target audience. It caters to a raidforce of fully mythical raiders in a guild/always-work-together environment, not for the pick-up-raid of normal players.I would ask SOE to solicit feedback *from their stated target audience* on this, because once again I believe the mark has been missed and the content is too difficult for its target audience, and will exclude many players. This is similar to the situation now with many of the TSO *heroic* instances, where groups are forming night after night in channel saying *myth people only, not interested in anyone with lesser gear* (or things a lot less polite than that).))

Xalmat

04-01-2009, 07:35 PM

With the exception of Digg, it seems the only hard part to the zone is random AoEs that the trash mobs do that can 1-shot players. The AoEs they were doing hit even harder than the AoEs in Veeshan's Peak do. I suggest tone them down a bit.

Gaige

04-01-2009, 07:38 PM

I have no problem with them nerfing the zone or shortening the lockout but only if they change most of the dropped loot to legendary, remove smart loot completely, and make sure the named only reward one mold each requiring you to clear the entire zone to be able to access the entire set of molds.Nerfing it w/o doing these things will just flood the game with overpowered gear and result in them having to make all future content a lot harder because even the non-raiding casuals will be kitted out with full fabled and set gear chock full of crit mit.Nerf the difficulty and the loot or leave it as is.

Gaige

04-01-2009, 07:38 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the exception of Digg, it seems the only hard part to the zone is random AoEs that the trash mobs do that can 1-shot players. The AoEs they were doing hit even harder than the AoEs in Veeshan's Peak do. I suggest tone them down a bit.</blockquote>They only cast that on incoming and its range based, most of the group should never get hit by it.

Kirianna1

04-01-2009, 07:55 PM

I didn't think the zone overall was too hard, at least not as a raider. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I do have a question about Digg though.. is it intended that if you die on this encounter, it's permanent for that encounter? Or we were just lucky enough to have a weird bug?We were getting a trauma on us if we died that kept us out of the fight till we reset the encounter. Trying to revive or get rezzed was just another insta-death. I was "lucky" enough to be the one to figure out we had to *stay* dead because I died to his AoE on our first pull on him. I didn't notice the trauma on me that was refreshing itself over and over even while dead. I took 5 rezzes before I realized I wasn't going to get to live...

Kirianna1

04-01-2009, 07:57 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the exception of Digg, it seems the only hard part to the zone is random AoEs that the trash mobs do that can 1-shot players. The AoEs they were doing hit even harder than the AoEs in Veeshan's Peak do. I suggest tone them down a bit.</blockquote>I don't think they should tone those down since an interrupt will completely prevent it. It adds a fun challenge to each pull to make sure you get those interrupts off.

Lader

04-01-2009, 08:11 PM

the ones that tic are nothing. i have enough time to cure individually before anyone takes substantial dmg, and if the healer cant, potions. Now maybe the instant dmg ones are the ones xalmat is referring to. yeah i think those should be toned down some, as some of our mages were getting hit for over max hp.

Iled

04-01-2009, 08:11 PM

<cite>Maleia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't think the zone overall was too hard, at least not as a raider. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I do have a question about Digg though.. is it intended that if you die on this encounter, it's permanent for that encounter? Or we were just lucky enough to have a weird bug?We were getting a trauma on us if we died that kept us out of the fight till we reset the encounter. Trying to revive or get rezzed was just another insta-death. I was "lucky" enough to be the one to figure out we had to *stay* dead because I died to his AoE on our first pull on him. I didn't notice the trauma on me that was refreshing itself over and over even while dead. I took 5 rezzes before I realized I wasn't going to get to live...</blockquote>Yeah, we got that a lot too. Seems unintended to me.

timetravelling

04-01-2009, 08:55 PM

<cite>Maleia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't think the zone overall was too hard, at least not as a raider. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I do have a question about Digg though.. is it intended that if you die on this encounter, it's permanent for that encounter? Or we were just lucky enough to have a weird bug?We were getting a trauma on us if we died that kept us out of the fight till we reset the encounter. Trying to revive or get rezzed was just another insta-death. I was "lucky" enough to be the one to figure out we had to *stay* dead because I died to his AoE on our first pull on him. I didn't notice the trauma on me that was refreshing itself over and over even while dead. I took 5 rezzes before I realized I wasn't going to get to live...</blockquote>It's a bug. He casts that spell to prevent players from trying to fight him from anywhere except his floating platforms. Cept...when you die, it's forgetting that you're in the right place.I'll get a fix in for it, sorry for the frustration!

CuCullain

04-01-2009, 09:07 PM

1. Does everyone understand that there is plenty of quality loot in easier raids, group content, even some solo content? I know everyone likes to say "raid geared" and point fingers like the poor at the rich, but really.. try reading a little about loot and mobs .. maybe you too can have a very well equiped character w/o ever doing a raid zone.2. What does 2 different raid forces have different from eachother if they have the exact same classes and gear? That would be skill and knowledge. Those who take down tougher content learn to play their classes and learn how to take down content, they don't just have good gear.. after all we all started with nothing. The difference between a DPS puting out 6k vs one puting out 4k is not always gear, it is often knowledge of their class. e.g. We recently needed a Necro for our raid force. He had very little in the way of previous raid gear, most of it at least 1 expansion old. We told him he had to get to at least X DPS to get a solid raid spot, after all Necros do little for raid forces other than DPS. He immediatly used the internet to find out more about how his class worked, asked questions of people, and looked up loot drops. He then did a lot of instances, many in PUGs and got some gear upgrades. In less than a month he had increased his DPS 400%+If you want to start taking down raid content you start with easy crap like this raid and work up, this is not the end of it. Upgrade all your spells, learn how your class works, learn how the classes interact, learn how to solve new challenges, hunt down some achievable gear upgrades, build a raid force that works well together.Casual normal gear does not equal autoattacking/spamming spells randomly/APPIV spells/5k resists/bad AA builds/5 ranger groups/your sister playing your other healer on the backup PC.If you want that type of challeneg you might want to try a game that lets you pick difficulty levels at the start screen. You don't "master" EQ2 ever, and if you ever come close it takes a sizeable amount of time.

Kirianna1

04-01-2009, 09:35 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maleia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't think the zone overall was too hard, at least not as a raider. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />I do have a question about Digg though.. is it intended that if you die on this encounter, it's permanent for that encounter? Or we were just lucky enough to have a weird bug?We were getting a trauma on us if we died that kept us out of the fight till we reset the encounter. Trying to revive or get rezzed was just another insta-death. I was "lucky" enough to be the one to figure out we had to *stay* dead because I died to his AoE on our first pull on him. I didn't notice the trauma on me that was refreshing itself over and over even while dead. I took 5 rezzes before I realized I wasn't going to get to live...</blockquote>It's a bug. He casts that spell to prevent players from trying to fight him from anywhere except his floating platforms. Cept...when you die, it's forgetting that you're in the right place.I'll get a fix in for it, sorry for the frustration!</blockquote>Thanks for the reply. Glad to know it is indeed a bug and will be fixed!

DCarnage2

04-01-2009, 11:31 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff?</blockquote>FAIL. The snake isn't procing. Yes we set it right, just simply isn't working. Bugged instance maybe? I guess we will see when our lockout timer is up.

Superfrog

04-01-2009, 11:45 PM

We tried this today, a mostly guild group with a few pugs. Only 3 or 4 people have myth, lots had fabled, we were in t2 shard and a few random raid items from PU Raids. We got the first melee guy down, but wiped a few times on the trash. The Cyclone ice guy we wiped on a few times, and his trash a bunch. The ae is way to large of range and way to powerful. It was killing half the raid in less than 4 seconds, with some dieing instantly. We finally got him down and was heading to the third named, but the server went down for awhile.Point of this is, it is WAY to hard for your target audience. Mainly being the trash ae's and dps. Lower the both by about 30% damage, and it will be perfect. I'd even say lower the named dps by 10ish%, but that would be asking too much. The trash and their ae's just do way too much damage for your target "non raid geared" groups.Also, I'll point out that we had average of about 29k dps, which is a good bit for 2 groups with 4 healers. Again, this is too hard for your target. Unless you really meant a target of "VP raid guilds wanting to gear up apps and alts"

Kirianna1

04-01-2009, 11:52 PM

<cite>Superfrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>The ae is way to large of range and way to powerful.</blockquote>Which is why I said you need to prevent it. Interrupts on the pull work wonderfully. It's a raid zone, even if it is a x2 raid zone. It should be somewhat challenging.

Noaani

04-02-2009, 12:00 AM

<cite>Superfrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>We tried this today, a mostly guild group with a few pugs. Only 3 or 4 people have myth, lots had fabled, we were in t2 shard and a few random raid items from PU Raids. We got the first melee guy down, but wiped a few times on the trash. The Cyclone ice guy we wiped on a few times, and his trash a bunch. The ae is way to large of range and way to powerful. It was killing half the raid in less than 4 seconds, with some dieing instantly. We finally got him down and was heading to the third named, but the server went down for awhile.Point of this is, it is WAY to hard for your target audience. Mainly being the trash ae's and dps. Lower the both by about 30% damage, and it will be perfect. I'd even say lower the named dps by 10ish%, but that would be asking too much. The trash and their ae's just do way too much damage for your target "non raid geared" groups.Also, I'll point out that we had average of about 29k dps, which is a good bit for 2 groups with 4 healers. Again, this is too hard for your target. Unless you really meant a target of "VP raid guilds wanting to gear up apps and alts"</blockquote>As has been said, the AEs on trash should only be hitting your MT. They have a shorter range than max heal range, and are on a 1 minute timer for if you don't have the DPS to kill the mobs in less time than that. Have your tank stand where he wants to pull too, healers stand at max heal range from him, everyone else behind the healers, and have your tank pull. No one moves at all until the AE fires, then your melee go in. If the mob is not dead 55 seconds after the AE goes off, tell everyone to joust out again.The mobs arn't hard, you guys just arn't doing them the best way possible. A bit of practise at them and you'll do a lot better.

Superfrog

04-02-2009, 12:06 AM

Funny, we tried being max range..multiple times. It didnt work. It still hit people, and random people. Some healers, some mages and sometimes missed those in range, like the tank. Ours was either bugged, or you did something else different. And yes its supposed to be a challenge, but this isnt even a challenge to normal "targetted" players. This is like a level 65 soloing in kylong challenge.And btw, you say they arnt that hard. Whats your gear like and the raid people you went with? I'm part of the targetted audience, and I think it's hard, as does my entire raid that went.

Noaani

04-02-2009, 12:12 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also keep in mind a casual guild probably won't have an ideal setup every time. They will probably sometimes be trying to get something done with 4 or 5 fighters that all want to go, and might be lucky to have a bard or enchanter available, much less 2 of each. And there's probably a good chance they won't be able to get the same people each time. </blockquote>There is a VERY large margin between a perfect setup and an acceptable setup. A casual raid should still have to field an acceptable setup in order to have a chance at any raid content.If you are able to get together 5 fighters but are unable to get together 3 full groups (enough to do 3 x4 TSO raid mobs and RoK raiding up to Druushk, for any level of player ability), then I suggest you do some PuGs with those fighters, and have them try and recruit players with the classes your guild is missing. Or you could just start up 2 raids with your 5 fighters and ask for healers/DPS/utility in the 70 - 79 channel, being selective as to which classes you take.

Noaani

04-02-2009, 12:23 AM

<cite>Superfrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>And btw, you say they arnt that hard. Whats your gear like and the raid people you went with? I'm part of the targetted audience, and I think it's hard, as does my entire raid that went.</blockquote>I've been on 2 raids in here so far, once on my wizard in a fully TSO geared raid (above the target), and once on an alt wearing a few bits ot T1 shard gear, and the rest filled with solo quest legendary, in a pickup raid (below the target).The raid geared raid blew through it in less than an hour, and figured out the scripts that needed to be figured out. The pickup killed the first 3 mobs, but didn't have the DPS to do the book room, the focus to do Digg, or the gear to do the other name (forget which).To me, that is perfectly acceptable. In order to do the book room, they need more DPS, which will come from gear in that zone. In order to do the orange name we left, they will also need more gear. In order to do Digg, they will need practise and concerntration.If you are a casual player attempting this zone, your not supposed to clear it your first trip in.Edit: I didn't get hit by any AEs when I went in on my monk, because I knew about them all.

Superfrog

04-02-2009, 12:41 AM

Now did you personally inspect each member of the target raid? What if only half were target and the other half had lots of raid gear? I'm not saying its impossible, but it is still too hard for a normal casual 2 group, like it was intended. A few minor adjustments, seeing as it should be possible for 2 groups of casual to get the first 5-6 names (the ones needed to bring down the barrier) but maybe not the last couple past the barrier. When a casual raid only gets 2 or 3 of the 6, with the targetted gear asortment, then it needs adjusted.Also, when on test, arnt most players copied from raid toons who have nothing better to do? So pretty much everything is tested with raiders and/or higher geared casuals? Not positive on this though.

acctlc

04-02-2009, 03:20 AM

<cite>DCarnage2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff?</blockquote>FAIL. The snake isn't procing. Yes we set it right, just simply isn't working. Bugged instance maybe? I guess we will see when our lockout timer is up.</blockquote>Agree, there is definitely something broken about the snake. Once its placed I see the withering buffs being stacked on the named but he still heals for huge amounts. If folks have killed this mob they either have some insane burst dps or its bugging intstance to instance.

GorgukGrimmfist

04-02-2009, 05:28 AM

I can't believe I am saying this, but I agree with the devs. This zone has a nice combination of tough and easy mobs with gear that seems reasonable for the time and risk involved with the zone. To me the gear seems like a fairly large upgrade as compared to T2 shard armor. Some of the other fabled drops are nice as well. I do NOT thing the zone was too hard. IMO this comes down to one question: What is the definition of a casual gamer?Does being casual mean only a difference in gear? Or does it also mean a difference in the ability to coordinate with other players and in general skill? If casual mean simply not being raid geared, than this zone is perfect for its audience. if casual means the later, then maybe it should be toned down some. Fabled raid gear and a ton of crit mit is not required for this zone. This zone is about working the scripts and understanding what the mobs are capable of. After one day I have seen several people saying the zone is too hard and citing examples that show they do not fully understand the scripts. IE complaining about too many adds on last named, or not understanding the snake script for Digg. For alot of the names in Ward the scipts simply can not be overpowered and bypassed. People are using a hammer when the job calls for a screwdriver. Adds are another example of a difference in cultures between casuals and raiders. The detrimentals from teh adds will rock most tanks IF THEY DO NOT GET CURED. Cure the detrimental before it ticks = an alive and kicking tank. This is something that raiders are used to, but casuals may not be used to seeing a detriment that can cause that much damage in a short amount of time. Dots in most instances allow several ticks before the bulk of the group begins to die. No amount of crit mit will help a tank survive those dots, just have to cure ASAP. As a defiler I prewarded my group and spammed cure on inc and that seemed to work well. Have healers use ESC and cancel whatever they are casting when it drops if they have to. And make the rest of the raid stay out of the way. LIke Mr. Miagi says "Best defense is no be there".The real question is should casual raiders be expected to handle encounters that have the complexity of raid encounters but do not require the gear? IMO the difficulty is right in line for the rewards and target. People are treating it like a T1 group instance (scion, DF) when it should be treated like what it is, a raid designed for people in T2 shard gear. This is content released halfway through an expansion, the difficulty should be harder than Varsoon really, but it is not.

CanibusSmoka

04-02-2009, 05:36 AM

To be honest zone is not that hard. Roughly 3-4hrs first try with no strats. Our setup with raid geared players, nothing crazy but we got some gear:Zerker - Mystic - Coercer - Dirge - Swashy - Warden /// Troubie - Wizard - Templar - Warden - Bruiser - BrigI think this zone is def. clearable by people in full shard gear, not sure why you all think its not? If they have that by now then they have been doing some x4 raid zones and possibly have myths. With that alone this zone is clearable -However you do need to be technical and learn the strats and maybe stack your raid or take some more time with the mobs / farming. But let it be as it is and some what of a challenge for the casual players. The loot is good, and some of our raiders have replaced some of their pieces with loot from here, but hey let the guys who aren't as hardcore get some decent gear too. If the zone is supposedly so easy for the hardcore guys then go farm up some "easy" loots if you want it. But don't take it away from other players.Best of luck to you all ~The Digg fight works, you either need to learn the script and or keep dragging the snake (multiple times) while you burn to kill the mob. We burnt through it when we realized we could but the script does work we started with that.The last mob I feel is slightly buggy if you dont land on the cyclones the right way you can just get eaten up by the lava.My hint here is to use your faefall or slowfall type cloaks / buffs. If you dont have that spend some time practicing the jump. Look for the circles on the walls they give you a nice buff and a decent angle.

Kleitos

04-02-2009, 06:01 AM

My feedback...Items: On par with the difficulty, some items are equal to x4 TSO items.Difficulty: SoH type, first nameds are easy, then difficulty goes up a big step.From Tank'n-spank to coordination/dps. For a uncoordinated pick-up-raid this will be a killer, for at newly started raid guild it's a good starting zone which offers progression. Same type of progression as TSO offers.As we suspected, Digg was bugged... he didn't seem to care at all about the snake or the other stuff, the trauma was a surprise to say the least. Did you test him at all before pushing to live, I mean you have had plenty of time and you never had a person die to him? Testing 101... you sure should have had enough time.No complaints from me really except the bugs and if you make the zone easier, make the loot worse.

Haze

04-02-2009, 06:05 AM

Did this zone, twice today. Once with my Berserker (1/2 mastered, 1/2 adept III), teir 2 tso sharded, and fabled. I "believe" most everyone else in the raid force were a bit better geared (most everyone had their mythical. We ran 1 tank, DPS, healers...The opinion on this time around (my first): The fights where perfect, except for the massive AOE's. We wiped 3 - 5 times on each named, and a few times on mis-pulls / not knowing there where 4, instead of 2...Solution: Cut the AOE damage to say...AOE DAMAGE = (0.15*(specific resist))Now, with the defiler (teir 1 armor, teir 2 jewelery, adept I's, few adept III's)1 MT, 1 MA, Healers, Utility; everyone but me fully raid + mastered;It took us 10+ wipes to kill just the water elemental guy.. we tried Digg, wiped, we tried the fire guy.. wiped; we called it.Again, the massive AOE's do way to much damage for this zone. It would be ideal imo, if the aoe / dots worked off of percentage based on resists, instead of: (Damage = (AOE damage / resists); this way, it would be a challenge to both casuals and raiders.My 2 coppers.

Efour EQ2

04-02-2009, 06:45 AM

Enjoyed the zone overall but a few things IMHO need to be adjusted/looked atThe LIFT to the final encounter is so annoying as is the chance of falling down it when fighting the dragon - It seems to have a life of its own going up and down when it wants.Trying to jump onto the whirlwinds as a brigand is a serious pain in the rear - slow run speed by default. and locked to encounter.. Everytime i got ported i nealry always ended up looking a total idiot cos i couldnt get back inside.... I safehoused back in if it was up..THe quest 3p reward and x4 item - Should be doable in any order... we went in killed a couple of the elemental type bosses and before we knew it we had screwed up the quest and couldnt update it further cos of killing out of sync.. Just like all the shard missions you have adjusted that require similar orders.. do it to this one.

Calain80

04-02-2009, 08:45 AM

I'm in a force that has Mynzak down, so you know our gear skill. We did this zone yesterday and got to Aidon. As we did not have enough Jump & Run friends in our raid and did run out of time he is still alive. Our pull on Digg took 24 minutes. He did not kill us but neither did we. After about 20 minutes we decided to scrap the script and just to burn him. That was the way we got him down, but I think non mythicaled chars will not be able to reach the needed DPS for that.

YummiOger

04-02-2009, 09:54 AM

FYI, our raid force is Well geared. fully mythicaled, VP/TSO mix. 125k Zone Wides.We went in as a good class mix, killed 4 named EZ, but then hit Digg.Faught Digg for 35mins straight. could not Rez (bugg). Snake totem did not effect him what so ever for 20mins of placement. behind him, infront, in him, timed with his AEs, all to no effect. We did get the buff on our toons from placeing the Snake, but it made no difference. He would hit 60% then heal 10% every tick untill full health.Zone seems balanced IMO, Ez trash and EZ nameds.but Digg is not functioning IMO.

Geothe

04-02-2009, 11:25 AM

did Digg last night.the snake WAS functioning for us.but, the duration was really short, you have to keep grabbing and placing the snake many times.However, we were a well geared group, and were doing like 60k DPS on him. So in that sense, a more casual guild group probably wouldn't be able to drop Digg. Even with the snake debuffs applying, Digg has a lot of regen. So something needs to be adjusted there, IMO. Either lessen the regen rate, or improve the buff the Snake puts on the group.That, and of course, correct the no-rez because of Trauma bug.As for the rest of the zone, it isn't too bad IMO. (Ran out of time to kill the final dragon last night, but did 1 quick pull and seems very doable).Casuals just need to realize that cures are VERY important. Everyone should have a stack of cure pots and not rely on their healers.

victer

04-02-2009, 11:34 AM

The majority of the trash AEs are easy to avoid.Herse a hint.... they are all frontal... not true AoEs. The only ones that dont seem to be frontal are the ones that also knock back but these are easly avoidable by range.

Gnotmardor

04-02-2009, 11:54 AM

Awesome instance imo. The trash AE is avoidable once you know how. Mythical and full fabled gear isnt needed AT ALL (witch is intended i believe). Just requires teamwork and "okay" gear.I strongly recommend all who cant/wont do the x4 raids to give this a chance. Its very doable. Forget the blabber about Myth and fabled. Its all in your skill and how you work as a team <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

OrcSlayer96

04-02-2009, 12:36 PM

From what i can see of the zone, only the bug fixes need to be applied on this zone. The tier 3 patterns require the person to have tier 2 shard armor and the aoes/attacks on trash and names assume you have some critical mitigation. Anybody coming into the zone looking for tier 3 patterns and not wearing or at least having the tier 2 armor is looking for a handout with no prep work ahead of time. This is not a raider versus casual thing as any casual if they have been working since tso came out should have a decent supply of shards. The wise players have crafters make the tier 1 and tier 2 armor and save 16-18 shards at least. In the enhanced legendary tier 2 armor and a decent amount of crit mit from the archetype stats(like agi for fighters), you should be okay on the vast majority of aoes. Proper placement on trash pulls and positioning is crucial here and the first 3 names should be doable by the masses.The ones posting that say they need this zone nerfed need to realize that comparing this zone to PR and previous expansion places makes no sense whatsoever, This is a new expansion that yes is level capped but also incorparates 60 more AA in a brand new tree with some powerfull AA options in there. Crit Mit that affects players on AOES/Barrages, autoattacks and so on. Raid gear from the previous expansion may give the player high health and some abilities, but crit mit is not a optional thing in this zone and that means tier 2 shard gear. The other thing is cures, players coming into the zone need a full stack of each type so if the healer is interupted or doesnt have a group cure they can cure themselves, waiting on a 2 sec grp cure when you can cure in .5 to 1 sec is lazy in my opinion and people need to step up if they want to raid versus use solo/boxing mentality of easy deep forge scion zones or older ROK content.This is not from a Avatar or end raid mob killing character, but a player with tier 2 shard armor, bracers from tier 4 and a mythical, i am setup only higher than basic requirement with the tier 4 bracers(the easy tso mob X4 kills) and my mythical. All the rest of my gear is from previous rok kills in shard or herioc farming in tso or shard gear made from from crafters. Fix the bugs that have been mentioned and let the rest of the zone stay as is for at least a week or so to get a true feel for the zone versus people. This instant nerf that some are requesting is just not needed IMO. Especially with 100% smartloot on patterns, really nice fabled drops, and the ability of many smaller guilds to have their own raid nights again without needing alliances to field 24...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dasein

04-02-2009, 01:03 PM

<cite>OrcSlayer96 wrote:</cite><blockquote>From what i can see of the zone, only the bug fixes need to be applied on this zone. The tier 3 patterns require the person to have tier 2 shard armor and the aoes/attacks on trash and names assume you have some critical mitigation. Anybody coming into the zone looking for tier 3 patterns and not wearing or at least having the tier 2 armor is looking for a handout with no prep work ahead of time. This is not a raider versus casual thing as any casual if they have been working since tso came out should have a decent supply of shards. The wise players have crafters make the tier 1 and tier 2 armor and save 16-18 shards at least. In the enhanced legendary tier 2 armor and a decent amount of crit mit from the archetype stats(like agi for fighters), you should be okay on the vast majority of aoes. Proper placement on trash pulls and positioning is crucial here and the first 3 names should be doable by the masses.The ones posting that say they need this zone nerfed need to realize that comparing this zone to PR and previous expansion places makes no sense whatsoever, This is a new expansion that yes is level capped but also incorparates 60 more AA in a brand new tree with some powerfull AA options in there. Crit Mit that affects players on AOES/Barrages, autoattacks and so on. Raid gear from the previous expansion may give the player high health and some abilities, but crit mit is not a optional thing in this zone and that means tier 2 shard gear. The other thing is cures, players coming into the zone need a full stack of each type so if the healer is interupted or doesnt have a group cure they can cure themselves, waiting on a 2 sec grp cure when you can cure in .5 to 1 sec is lazy in my opinion and people need to step up if they want to raid versus use solo/boxing mentality of easy deep forge scion zones or older ROK content.This is not from a Avatar or end raid mob killing character, but a player with tier 2 shard armor, bracers from tier 4 and a mythical, i am setup only higher than basic requirement with the tier 4 bracers(the easy tso mob X4 kills) and my mythical. All the rest of my gear is from previous rok kills in shard or herioc farming in tso or shard gear made from from crafters. Fix the bugs that have been mentioned and let the rest of the zone stay as is for at least a week or so to get a true feel for the zone versus people. This instant nerf that some are requesting is just not needed IMO. Especially with 100% smartloot on patterns, really nice fabled drops, and the ability of many smaller guilds to have their own raid nights again without needing alliances to field 24...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You're only going to pick up about 10% total crit-mit from the t2 shard sets, which doesn't have that big of an impact. Crit mit is important in the higher-end raids, but there is not enough available early on for it to be a deciding factor.

DCarnage2

04-02-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DCarnage2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff?</blockquote>FAIL. The snake isn't procing. Yes we set it right, just simply isn't working. Bugged instance maybe? I guess we will see when our lockout timer is up.</blockquote>Agree, there is definitely something broken about the snake. Once its placed I see the withering buffs being stacked on the named but he still heals for huge amounts. If folks have killed this mob they either have some insane burst dps or its bugging intstance to instance.</blockquote>We were all geared very well, with about 4 - 5 pieces of TSO gear/myths... putting out 50k+ dps on Digg, placing totems correctly and he still owned us. We beat on him till he was out of power, none of us died. After he was at 0% power for about 3 mins we decided to continue and just kill the rest of the zone. Books were very difficult but we did it.By the way, there's nothing wrong with the trash mob's AEs. The tank needs to pull and turn them correctly then the rest of the raid can come in and dps on them. They are cake and we didn't have a problem with the AEs.Another edit: The rest of the names are cake if you figure out the strats to kill them. We died once on the ice guy because of bad placement but after that everything was one pulled. The water guy was especially easy. Please do not tone down anything but Digg. Honest opinion.

Sheridan-Guk

04-02-2009, 01:21 PM

<cite>timetravelling wrote:</cite><blockquote>The snake totem places a buff on everyone around it and allows your DPSers to proc a debuff that prevents his healing. Were the members of your raidforce getting this buff? Do you perhaps have an ACT parse you could check? I'll try to track this discrepancy down and figure out what is causing it when it occurs.Digg Was killed several times, so it doesn't appear to be 100%, but I definitely don't want to accidentally frustrate unlucky guilds! Any info you can provide would be great, thank you =)</blockquote>I suspect the proc is Withering Venom. On our winning pull, I would proc this every 1 to 3 seconds (Average hit 581 for 275 ext dps). On all previous pulls, we had 0 procs raidwide. We figured out the script after a few pulls, so I know we were placing the snake on the final 2-3 pulls. Seems like the buff is inconsistent. Logs and/or ACT data available upon request.-- Edited to add ---I didn't grab a screenshot of the buff, but it appears to only proc off of melee attacks. It sure would be nice of this would proc off of hostile spells too. We had a balanced raid, but only 11 people. Conjy, Necro, and Illy only proc'd when they autoattacked.

RafaelSmith

04-02-2009, 01:25 PM

With the exception of the 5 day timer.....this zone appears to be just about perfect for its intended players. My guild is a good example of who I believe SOE was intending this content to be for. We were able to take a not-so optimal group of 11 last night and got the first 2 named.....we wiped alot trying to figure things out...primarily with the AOEs but once we got it was not hard at all. We wiped twice on the 3rd (purple pillar guy) but it was getting late so we decided to stop...I am sure with a few more tries we would have got it.Once you learn to handle the AOE and dots the trash and first 2 named at least don't hit hard at all and do not take massive DPS to defeat.I am sure we are not able yet for the other 3 but that gives us something to strive for.So thats 3 named that casuals can do....all the while getting geared up to try the others. Seems perfect for me. Make it a 3 day timer instead of 5 and this will be a very nice option & challenge for guilds like mine.

Geothe

04-02-2009, 01:32 PM

For those having issues with Digg.The snake doesn't only spawn when he says "Snake".It spawns a lot more often. And whenever it pops, someone needs to grab it and place it again to refresh the proc buff on the raid. Otherwise, the proc wears off and you cant compete with his Regen.Best to just have someone with their camera panned to the Snake spawn when Digg is below 60% and just calling out when there is a new snake. If you only grab a snake when he says "Snake" the proc will have expired a long time ago.

OrcSlayer96

04-02-2009, 01:41 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the exception of the 5 day timer.....this zone appears to be just about perfect for its intended players. My guild is a good example of who I believe SOE was intending this content to be for. We were able to take a not-so optimal group of 11 last night and got the first 2 named.....we wiped alot trying to figure things out...primarily with the AOEs but once we got it was not hard at all. We wiped twice on the 3rd (purple pillar guy) but it was getting late so we decided to stop...I am sure with a few more tries we would have got it.Once you learn to handle the AOE and dots the trash and first 2 named at least don't hit hard at all and do not take massive DPS to defeat.I am sure we are not able yet for the other 3 but that gives us something to strive for.So thats 3 named that casuals can do....all the while getting geared up to try the others. Seems perfect for me. Make it a 3 day timer instead of 5 and this will be a very nice option & challenge for guilds like mine.</blockquote>I agree, except if they reduce the reuse timer to 3 days they need to drop the ammount of patterns and fabled chance down and remove smartloot, if they keep the 5 day min timer then everything is about right other than the aforementioned bugs that are being fixed. As far as the crit mit, on the first couple names and especially the trash mobs, the standard 10% crit mit plus up to 10% on the stat for a total of 15-20% is plenty on 11 of the 12 players, for the mt, he should also have the warden tossing up their crit mit increaser so they have anywhere from 30% to 35% crit mit which should help them thru at least the first 3 names. This zone is alot like SOH, it is progressive and the gear you get earlier on helps the raiders go further in if you are not raid equipped before(and once again previous expansion gear does not count as they have no crit mit). With names in herioc zones giving shards on kills(like the void zones) and the daily solo shard quest, there is no excuse that players cannot gear up for the first few name in here without nerfage or tier 4 raid gear/mythicals, stay the course and fix the bugs, and once raid strats are published/well lnown the names in here will be farmable by many...<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jesdyr

04-02-2009, 02:48 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>doing like 60k DPS on him. </blockquote>This is what bugs me with people saying the zone is easy or just right (not directed at you). A casual x2 raid is not going to be pulling 60k .. they will be doing about half that. I have seen someone saying the zone was easy and how you could just ignore XX ... doing over 75k DPS.I had the unfortunate luck of getting in a raid that was doing around 22kdps at best. It was failure and we could only take down the first guy that is just a tank n spank.

Geothe

04-02-2009, 03:04 PM

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>doing like 60k DPS on him. </blockquote>This is what bugs me with people saying the zone is easy or just right (not directed at you). A casual x2 raid is not going to be pulling 60k .. they will be doing about half that. I have seen someone saying the zone was easy and how you could just ignore XX ... doing over 75k DPS.I had the unfortunate luck of getting in a raid that was doing around 22kdps at best. It was failure and we could only take down the first guy that is just a tank n spank.</blockquote>Maybe then, you should perhaps read EVERYTHING in my post?Or is that rather simple concept beyond your abilities?Since there is apparently some that have reading comprehension abilities, i will restate:"did Digg last night.the snake WAS functioning for us.but, the duration was really short, you have to keep grabbing and placing the snake many times.However, we were a well geared group, and were doing like 60k DPS on him. So in that sense, a more casual guild group probably wouldn't be able to drop Digg. Even with the snake debuffs applying, Digg has a lot of regen. So something needs to be adjusted there, IMO. Either lessen the regen rate, or improve the buff the Snake puts on the group."There Jesdyr, I even bolded what you totally ignored.

Jesdyr

04-02-2009, 03:29 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote> (not directed at you)</blockquote>I even bolded what you totally ignored.</blockquote>So did I.It wasnt a reply to you .. it was a reply to the many posts saying the zone was easy or fine how it is. I quoted your post because unlike most of them, you actually posted what your raid was DPSing.

RafaelSmith

04-02-2009, 04:01 PM

<cite>OrcSlayer96 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, except if they reduce the reuse timer to 3 days they need to drop the ammount of patterns and fabled chance down and remove smartloot,</blockquote>I think a 3 day timer with removal of Smartloot would be fair. I think for most guilds for which this x2 is intended for the lack of smartloot really would not mean much. It will be a LONG time before we are saturated to the point where patterns would rot.And again, thus far the difficulty of this x2 is perfect for its intended target. Not stupidly easy and also not stupidly frustrating. Just the right level of challenge. We had a blast trying to figure things out......and that to us is the most important thing. If we had gone in there and melted the first 3 named and trash without any deaths or a learning curve I would be very dissappointed.

Oakum

04-02-2009, 05:27 PM

I havent tryed it since I am waiting until this weekend to do it with whatever guild members (who are not locked out) and friends we can talk into joining us.Personally, my gear is fabled from TSO/ROK mostly with T2 armor just for dps spec and T2 healing shoulders since they are better for healing then the VP set. I raid with another guild and have been for about a year. Most of my guildies are T2 at best and some not that good. Lost Heroes does not have large amount of 80's either. But with warden myth and Tortoise shell being broken, I pretty much am not a good raiding healer at all.My point being that is that while it fine for a mythed/raid geared x2 raid to do it without much problem, its more important how the T2/instance gear/fabled epic/MC geared people are doing.Is it worth taking my guildies in there just to watch them die over and over and waste their time or will we be able to kill at least half the named and be abel to gear up to do better with each attempt.The other issue I have is the lockout seems to long. Especially if you know it will be unlikely that you have the same people to go back in each time you go to work on it more.The good comments in this thread IMO say what the lvl of gear the players have and their experiences and how many if any "pickups" from outside their guild did they have. That tells the "true" story of the zones difficulty.

OrcSlayer96

04-02-2009, 06:05 PM

If they drop the minimal reuse time from 5 days to 3 days, then there should be around half the chance of fabled drops to drop and patterns with no smartloot applied, otherwise you flood the market way too quick on items from this zone. Then the ones asking for quicker reuse will also be the ones shortly down the line stating they are bored because they have all the good loot from the zone and there is nothing for them to do. A level 80 player in mastercrafted 72 armor will have no reason to be in this zone and casual card can't be played to allow for this. In order to actually "use" the Tier 3 armor pattern tha player has to already have the tier 1 and tier 2 made and the available shards to combine the pattern with the tier 2 set. Any players coming in with rok gear and little to no shards will be ill equiped and not gearing up to meet the minimal standards of the zone. Some of my best friends are what many would label as "casuals" as they have no set raiding time and limited playing time in itself. They still have had the time to get shards when they can(non grey exploits) and are ready to try the zone in tier 2 armor. they may still need to go from their fabled to mythical, but they know how to play their class and work well with others, 2 important things on raids or groups...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Novusod

04-02-2009, 08:03 PM

Digg is the Duushk of x2 mobs. Hard core raiders will blow through it with ease but casuals will spend some time on it before they get it and pick ups will likely never kill it.

Superfrog

04-02-2009, 09:38 PM

I want to know why everyone keeps saying "Remove smartloot if you're going to lower lockout" [Removed for Content]?! So you'd rather see more stuff rot/go to alts? Thats the mentality of a raider then. Clear the zone, and let all the loot for to alts. Otherwise there would be no reason at all to remove smartloot.

EasternKing

04-02-2009, 10:26 PM

i just love all the remove smart loot if you drop it to 3 days.this zone is probably in 6months going to become a 10 lvls below you zone making it totally and utterly redundant. if they say no lvl cap raise, then sure maybe it might be worth looking at reducing the % chance of smart loot, ie 50% from 100%, but no way on gods green earth does it need removing totally to make it 3day lockout.as it stands we are due for a level cap raise, meaning this zone will become useless, and totally null and void the arguements of the gear dropping to fast, they need to reduce the timer to 3 days, or there is little point to even trying to kit out a guild of casuals, as you wont have a chance of doing that in 6months.

Dynaen

04-03-2009, 02:19 AM

Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!

Calain80

04-03-2009, 04:56 AM

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>Yep it isn't as the key element of the Aiden fight is to stop the adds from spawning.Also I think you don't know Daratha. The dragon, that stunned the raid and took a short fly. It was part of the offical release of EQ2. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

EasternKing

04-03-2009, 06:24 AM

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>mhmmm im almost 1000% sure in kos we had a x2 zone with a mob, that flew up into the air, when it went into the air it spawned adds, you had 4-5 rounds to do enough damage to kill it or by the 5th or 6th fly up it spawned epic x4 orange adds that would pwn your x2's face in.

Thunderthyze

04-03-2009, 06:57 AM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It will be a LONG time before we are saturated to the point where patterns would rot.</blockquote>My guild went through there last night splitting the usual raid into two. The raid I was in muted well over half the loot and left a few patterns to rot and we are just making a start on TSO after having cleared VP a couple of months ago. The loot was rather schizophrenic with a couple of REALLY nice items interspersed with buckloads of ledgendary "meh" mis tagged as fabled. Far too much running about down empty corridors and at the end of the day a zone that will be being one-grouped most of the time in a month or so.

LygerT

04-03-2009, 02:41 PM

i'm just wondering why i'm seeing everyone claim the trash has massive AEs. i didn't notice any AEs off the mobs, just detrimentals based off the type of element the mobs were, which needed to be cured VERY QUICKLY or those people died to a one shot. is that an AE? no, it's your healer not reacting quick enough or the people using pots quick enough or server lag just owning you regardless of both.on the side of tanks getting one shot, it is either related to the above or you should take a look at your group setup. this can't be treated like a simple heroic zone because IT ISN'T. did you have a shaman? even buffing the tank to 20k still doesn't guarantee they will live to a couple good hits, even with almost no raid or shard gear on my shaman i ward for about 13k on a pull, that leaves a 20k health buffed tank with 33k health at the start of a fight and similar during it. dirge stoneskins also give a similar result as because if you don't get hit, then you don't die.groups tossing together PUGs without thinking and claiming the zone is way overpowered really just need to learn how raiding actually works and simple group makeup before saying something is too difficult.

Rahatmattata

04-03-2009, 03:21 PM

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>Guess what? FFXI has <a href="http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=6347" target="_blank">the same thing</a>. Who ripped off who? Who cares, it's a common theme in fantasy stories.

Rahatmattata

04-03-2009, 03:23 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm just wondering why i'm seeing everyone claim the trash has massive AEs. i didn't notice any AEs off the mobs</blockquote>Next time pay attention.

Banditman

04-03-2009, 04:23 PM

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>This isn't new ground for EQ2 either . . . back in Fallen Dynasty the access locked Roost of Xux'liao was a very similar fight. Just because something has been done before doesn't mean it can't be fun.

wullailhuit

04-03-2009, 06:13 PM

We did digg last night , even though we kept bringing him the snake every time it was up, he hit 50% and then just eventually regenerated to 90%+.

Rayche

04-03-2009, 06:16 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>This isn't new ground for EQ2 either . . . back in Fallen Dynasty the access locked Roost of Xux'liao was a very similar fight. Just because something has been done before doesn't mean it can't be fun.</blockquote>The same strats for 90% of the mobs in EQ2 have been done in one MMO or another. (Including EQ1)The new dungeon looks and feels awesome. In fact, I'm having more fun in Lavastorm than I did in Moors!

Theren

04-03-2009, 08:03 PM

issue we were having was digg was healing for way too much even w/the snake beside him. had to have upwards of 40k dps to keep his hp down. Kind of steep if you ask me. No other problems w/ the zone. love the eat-your-face ae's on the trash. makes it fun.

LygerT

04-04-2009, 04:36 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm just wondering why i'm seeing everyone claim the trash has massive AEs. i didn't notice any AEs off the mobs</blockquote>Next time pay attention.</blockquote>the only deaths i saw were from the mobs loose on aggro on pulls and owning people, the others were from the dots ticking off and one shotting random people. aside from that i never saw anyone taking massive damage in my second group even with melee in it. granted we didn't have people running right up to the mobs on pull either, so i don't know what to say to my lack of attention to the AEs.granted, we didn't have the DPS to get past Diggs so i can't say that it isn't something you see later on in the zone but from the first half i didn't notice anything out of the ordinary or people needing bots before we got to Diggs first time into the zone.who knows, maybe you need to pay more attention and avoid the AEs better. the elementals if i do remember have a medium range hard hitting frontal but the term AE to me and almost anyone who knows better an AE is full range, not a frontal. maybe treat them like the Racnors in VP before your raid force was geared out? even trash can have some light strategy associated with it still..that or you need to remember the first fundamental rule of tanking which is: "flip the freaking mob!"

Rahatmattata

04-04-2009, 08:22 PM

Gratz on your luck. Random people were eating AoE in the raid I was on, and it didn't seem to make a difference where they stood. Also the AoE didn't always come immediately on pull; sometimes it would hit 7 or 10 seconds after the pull.Oh, and noone but me was standing in front of the mobs when they got 1 shot btw. Flipping mobs is something I learned to do in Wailing Caves. Thanks though.

Vain

04-04-2009, 08:39 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gratz on your luck. Random people were eating AoE in the raid I was on, and it didn't seem to make a difference where they stood. Also the AoE didn't always come immediately on pull; sometimes it would hit 7 or 10 seconds after the pull.Oh, and noone but me was standing in front of the mobs when they got 1 shot btw. Flipping mobs is something I learned to do in Wailing Caves. Thanks though.</blockquote>Some other things to learn then:1) Cure potions (and other forms of cure) - these work well to rid a toon of DoTs quickly!;2) Ranged attacks - keep the squishies and others, as required, away from the mobs;3) Resists - some gear has very good situational resists... use them!Sure the odd DoT is gonna kill someone every now and again, but if the trash is causing a lot of headaches for people its because they're being slow and/or lazy.

eqaddictedfool

04-04-2009, 09:14 PM

Now I have only done this zone once and it worked exactly how i had hoped it would. I said in 70-79. Any x 2 groups need a dirge? I was immediatly picked up into a pick up raid. We zoned in without knowing the zone and we began our journey. The aoes killed quite a few folks but it was a learning experiance. We had killed the 3rd boss before calling it an evening. We died often but each time we died we adjusted to the encounter.When it was time for loot there was plenty of it to go around.As for the boss fights the fire guy was easy mezzed adds and blah blah.Blizzard guy we took a few deaths on due to our sloppy form but we adjusted and once we figured out the fight he went down easy.Lightening guy was next. We tried bouncing around to the 3 totems but we always seemed to die at the far one so we decided to heal through the far one and only kill at up close towers. Died a few times but we one.Now as far as gear goes taking a quick over view of the crew we had i believe only 2 mythicals both on assassins which helped our dps quite abit im sure and very few folks were decked out higher than t2 shard gear.We got much farther than i had expected and noone had been to the zone yet so i feel good about the progress we made especially sinse none of us had done it before. But this zone did exactly what i wanted it gave me a quick raid that i could jump into one morning that didnt take much time to organise and we could do it well with some folks that had never raided before.

Rahatmattata

04-04-2009, 11:26 PM

<cite>Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) Cure potions (and other forms of cure) - these work well to rid a toon of DoTs quickly!;How do you cure a debuff that one shots you grand master eq2 guru?2) Ranged attacks - keep the squishies and others, as required, away from the mobs;Obviously. Read my post again. Or better yet, don't bother.3) Resists - some gear has very good situational resists... use them!Mitigation is pretty hard to raise since diminishing returns were implemented. Seriously, I don't know any players that carrry around bags of resist gear since KoS. When you are already at 65% mit and you have a defiler in your group anyway, another 1k resist isn't going to be worth swapping on a sub par piece of gear with fewer HP, avoidance, and/or dps.Sure the odd DoT is gonna kill someone every now and again, but if the trash is causing a lot of headaches for people its because they're being slow and/or lazy.You don't seem to know what one-shot is. You obviously didn't read my post or didn't comprehend it. Don't worry about it though, there's tons of people in life that repeatedly fail when trying to grasp simple concepts.</blockquote>

Vain

04-04-2009, 11:55 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>1) Cure potions (and other forms of cure) - these work well to rid a toon of DoTs quickly!;How do you cure a debuff that one shots you grand master eq2 guru?One, its not a debuff we're talking about. Two, these things weren't even "one-shotting" our mages so I'm not sure why you're so insistent on this whole "one-shot" business. If they are, indeed, killing you or anyone else in one tick, then, yes, you shouldn't be running this zone and you really need to work on gearing up. You can look over my gear - nothing special - to get an idea of what you'll need to survive the basics.2) Ranged attacks - keep the squishies and others, as required, away from the mobs;Obviously. Read my post again. Or better yet, don't bother.Yeah, you said it didn't matter where they stood. This, in the context of what you were talking about, was a frontal reference. If you meant it didn't matter where people stood with respect to ranging these things, then you are wrong.3) Resists - some gear has very good situational resists... use them!Mitigation is pretty hard to raise since diminishing returns were implemented. Seriously, I don't know any players that carrry around bags of resist gear since KoS. When you are already at 65% mit and you have a defiler in your group anyway, another 1k resist isn't going to be worth swapping on a sub par piece of gear with fewer HP, avoidance, and/or dps.Thing is, was everyone in your force at 7K+ resists for elemental? I doubt it. Swap the gear in if the DoT is causing that much of a problem. I'm beginning to think that you, as the tank, are getting "one-shotted". If this is the case, your raidforce is doing something drastically wrong. Not stacking wards, not applying stoneskin, whatever. I'm sitting with some pretty paltry resists, passable HP and less than stellar gear. I was at ~20K HP fully buffed and about 72% avoidance. I had 5 pieces of the void knight's gear on for marginal crit mit gains. Nothing fantastic, but the trash certainly weren't causing us the headaches they seemed to be causing you. Sure the odd DoT is gonna kill someone every now and again, but if the trash is causing a lot of headaches for people its because they're being slow and/or lazy.You don't seem to know what one-shot is. You obviously didn't read my post or didn't comprehend it. Don't worry about it though, there's tons of people in life that repeatedly fail when trying to grasp simple concepts.You don't seem to know what the forum rules are here, my friend. Read them, learn to use some respect and perhaps you will learn the nuances of this game at the same time.</blockquote></blockquote>

Freliant

04-04-2009, 11:57 PM

<cite>Tisera@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>...i believe only 2 mythicals both on assassins which helped our dps quite abit im sure...We got much farther than i had expected and noone had been to the zone yet so i feel good about the progress we made especially sinse none of us had done it before. But this zone did exactly what i wanted it gave me a quick raid that i could jump into one morning that didnt take much time to organise and we could do it well with some folks that had never raided before.</blockquote>You underestimate how much a mythical assassin brings to the raid. 8k dps each EASY, and if they know how to play their class, they were most probably dishing out 13k+ a piece, which is 25k+ dps from them alone... That type of dps is hard to muster.You my friend, were very lucky, and should remember that. However, even being lucky, you still only got to the point most of the pick up raids in this zone get to.As for a quick pickup raid that you can jump into one morning... yep, one morning, once a week, and that is it.

LordPazuzu

04-05-2009, 02:29 AM

I love the place. It's exactly like I was hoping it would be.

therodge

04-05-2009, 04:30 AM

couple points that should be concidered.1. its acually impossible mechanics wise to gear up in this zone and move on. here is why. ever with all 6 teir 2 peices, IF you replace 2 you loose your 5 peice bonus, which for alot of classes is substantial, and concidering at most casuals will get the first 3 named which is 3 diffrent patterns its utterly useless to try and gear up in this zone. in order to do it properly you would have to make atleast the first 5 named readily killable with only teir 2 armor.2. the AoEs on certain cannot be ranged after further testing (i took a group of 6 into my old instance and test aoe range on trash) had the wizard stand at almost doule max range still got hit, tried again and he didnt, checked act, he resisted, its my theory that resistability increases the farther away your are. also not all mobs have the same aoe, for instance the water elementals , are the ones i think most people are complaining about, were as the teir dal ones will certainly one shot a raid can easily be ranged and the fire elemntals have almost no aoe.3. I will once again state if a guild doesent have mythicals, that means they cant get past nex and drush (as we all know up to silverwing is acually easier then nex and drush) which also means this zone shouldent have strats more difficult nor mobs that hit harder then those mobs, and at its absolute maximum should be geared to higher then people able to make headway on overking, and should fit more properly then guilds just clearing teir 1 rok content, as thats what most casual guilds do.4. it should be noted that people think PuR or PuG is assuming that those in the raid are unexperianced, its a fact that VP has been PuR on my server more then once now and have made more then conciderable headway (most get to atleast silverwing before calling it)5. alot of those posting are in raid guilds and have lost touch wih what casuals are capable of did ferzual yesterday, had a whopping 50k group dps on named fights, zone was freaken trival, 1 healer,1 tank a warlock dirge,illy,brig. brig illy and warlock put out over 10k on named fights,i did about 7k healer did about 2k and dirge did 6-8k. was freaken rediculous. did it today, 13k dps, couldet get past first named and that was with 2 healers, a lock a illy a tank and a brig. with the first group i had i probobly could have 1 grouped the first 2 named in the x2, big freaken deal. a raider will always have gear that makes content look stupid easy. had a convo with a freind of mine in a top end raid guild, were talking about content and just genral chit chat, he asked me what i do on off raid nights, i replyed that i dont raid, his reply was, oh so what clear vp once a week or something? i said no i two group pr, their are guilds still not clearing vp? [Removed for Content].... hes a good guy, but i think its the genral raider sentement that they arnt as far ahead as they acually are which leads to the l2p comments so often seen on these boards. They simply cannot comprehend the diffrence that extra 15% mit 10% avoidance, proc gear and 40% dps/doubleattack melee and spell crit acually goes.

Dethdlr

04-05-2009, 04:05 PM

Loved the zone. Difficulty was about where I hoped it would be. We made it to Digg but didn't get to try him since we ran out of time. Tried the fire guy and worked our way towards the book guy to look around as well.<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm just wondering why i'm seeing everyone claim the trash has massive AEs. i didn't notice any AEs off the mobs, just detrimentals based off the type of element the mobs were, which needed to be cured VERY QUICKLY or those people died to a one shot. is that an AE? no, it's your healer not reacting quick enough or the people using pots quick enough or server lag just owning you regardless of both.on the side of tanks getting one shot, it is either related to the above or you should take a look at your group setup. this can't be treated like a simple heroic zone because IT ISN'T. did you have a shaman? even buffing the tank to 20k still doesn't guarantee they will live to a couple good hits, even with almost no raid or shard gear on my shaman i ward for about 13k on a pull, that leaves a 20k health buffed tank with 33k health at the start of a fight and similar during it. dirge stoneskins also give a similar result as because if you don't get hit, then you don't die.groups tossing together PUGs without thinking and claiming the zone is way overpowered really just need to learn how raiding actually works and simple group makeup before saying something is too difficult.</blockquote>You're absolutly right on group makeup Lyger. If your MT is dying, stack your MT group with a chain, plate, AND leather healer plus a dirge. We didn't have problems with the MT dying, we had problems with those AoEs further in.Did you make it to the orange trash where you head down the stairs towards the barriers? That's where the trash started 1-shotting me. I carry around bags full of resist gear but haven't found many items with slashing resists on them which is what one shotting people. (joke btw, I know what MIT is) "an Elite Teir'Dal Swordsman" has something called Dark Evisceration that hit us on average for 12,698 slashing damage, max hit was 21,184, NONE of them were critical hits. It doesn't only go off on pull and will hit you even if you're behind the mob (assassin here, I live behind the mob). Almost positive it's an AoE and not a DOT that needs to be cured since I'm pretty good at clicking my cure pots but could be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything at all should be done about this. Just saying that the trash in there does vary in difficulty the further in you get by quite a bit. We were chugging right along then hit those guys and went 'Whoh! Anyone get the license number of that truck?" We'll eventually get it down, work out a timer, joust it if need be, etc. But if you haven't gone up against "an Elite Tier'Dal Swordsman" yet, then you're probably not talking about the same AoEs.I quoted you Lyger but this isn't really directed AT you. Your post just had some good quotable stuff in it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jacobian21

04-05-2009, 04:36 PM

<cite>therodge wrote:</cite><blockquote>couple points that should be concidered.1. its acually impossible mechanics wise to gear up in this zone and move on. here is why. ever with all 6 teir 2 peices, IF you replace 2 you loose your 5 peice bonus, which for alot of classes is substantial, and concidering at most casuals will get the first 3 named which is 3 diffrent patterns its utterly useless to try and gear up in this zone. in order to do it properly you would have to make atleast the first 5 named readily killable with only teir 2 armor.</blockquote> Another good solution to this problem, which would then make those progression raidng points more valid for this zone would be to randomize which slot piece molds drop for each named... still keep the smart loot system, but make it so that if you run the instance enough and can on average only do the first 3 named, then eventually you can get a full T3 set, at which point you can replace your T2 gear and get the new set bonuses rather than disrupting the bonuses with partial sets.

Noaani

04-05-2009, 05:09 PM

<cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat.Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>I heard that Blizzard invented grass especially for WoW.True story!Seriously, just because its in WoW, doesn't mean they came up with it first.

LygerT

04-05-2009, 05:33 PM

if the tier dal swordsmen are after diggs then i haven't run into them and i stated that up front, some people miss little things like that and then the quotes get misplaced and the argument goes off what was originally said. i haven't seen the whole zone but from the first half i never noticed AEs owning anyone, just the random dots sometimes. my first post was also more of a question about where those mobs and AEs come in, it instead turned into an argument and no one giving examples of where they came into play and more of a "no, you're wrong!" thing against me.<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dynaen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the winning strat. Go play World of Warcraft and go to Karazhan and fight Nightbane, and you have the exact same strat for Aiden. They basically ripped this entire fight from an old WoW dungeon. It's pretty pathetic really, they really are running out of ideas for anything original.Nightbane in WoW is an undead dragon who you fight on the ground, then he takes off and spawns adds, but keeps attacking you from above, then lands, and rinse and repeat. Man, that's nothing like the Aiden fight!</blockquote>I heard that Blizzard invented grass especially for WoW.True story!Seriously, just because its in WoW, doesn't mean they came up with it first.</blockquote>its easy for him to sit in his chair reading a forum and say a fight is similar. put him in the developer seat and tell him to come up with new and original strats for mobs that do not resemble any from any other game out there and i bet he would change his tune.the whole "ripping stuff off from WoW" argument is getting very old. if people keep using WoW comparisons then i often wonder why i see those people playing EQ2 if WoW is so great.

victer

04-06-2009, 12:50 AM

anyone kill digg with mostly casters?we pulled about 6 times only spam pulling the snake to him as soon as he dropped under 60%raidwide dps was 40-60k1 scout, 2 fighters, 3 healers, 6 mageshe would stay at 48-55% and we couldnt bring him down further.The dps was there so i donno what else to do.*edit* looking at the parses again a few tries were as high as 72k

Dethdlr

04-06-2009, 02:32 AM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>if the tier dal swordsmen are after diggs then i haven't run into them and i stated that up front, some people miss little things like that and then the quotes get misplaced and the argument goes off what was originally said. i haven't seen the whole zone but from the first half i never noticed AEs owning anyone, just the random dots sometimes. my first post was also more of a question about where those mobs and AEs come in, it instead turned into an argument and no one giving examples of where they came into play and more of a "no, you're wrong!" thing against me.</blockquote>Yep. Kinda why I pointed out where the rough ones start and also said this:<div><cite>Decimatr@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I quoted you Lyger but this isn't really directed AT you. Your post just had some good quotable stuff in it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></div>Yours was just a good reference with some good points about making sure you have the right group setup that also happened to mention the AoEs. By "good quotable stuff" I was refering to the group makeup part, not the AoE part. Seemed fairly clear from your post that you simply hadn't gone far enough in to hit them yet.

Kunaak

04-08-2009, 03:48 PM

Digg is most definatly a unreliable and bugged fight.we fought him for 12 minutes according to ACT, were parsing well over 65K on him, which we considerd low, since we had more healers this time then DPS (just cause the DPS'rs didnt log in for it that day) which I know is well above what alot of people were parsing on him in PUG's. yet he just would not go down below 50% - snake or not, he just kept healing and healing and healing.... never ending.our DPS just couldnt bring him down, cause his healing was so constant, that once we got him down 10-15%, he would start healing for 3-4% per tick, over and over.we kept him at 50-60% for a good 10 minutes before just evacing, cause we were all getting [Removed for Content].it was a ridiculous fight, and thing is, we beat him first day, same way. second time, we had the strat down, knew what to do, where to be, how to do what we needed to do. thing is, he was just impossible that day.we evac'd to start over. on second try, he wasnt bugged so bad, but it still took 6 minutes to take him down.which I consider ridiculous, it doesnt even take 6 minutes to take out byzola, which is a FAR more complicated fight to do right.Digg is simply unpredictable at the moment, DPS and heals, and strats are all useless if he just goes into some endless cycle of super heals.

Yimway

04-08-2009, 03:58 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Digg is simply unpredictable at the moment, DPS and heals, and strats are all useless if he just goes into some endless cycle of super heals.</blockquote>I believe the snake is sitll not procing the multiple 5% reduction in heals properly.With enough proc's timed write from the snake, it should nearly negate his heal burst.

jam3

04-08-2009, 04:07 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Digg is most definatly a unreliable and bugged fight.we fought him for 12 minutes according to ACT, were parsing well over 65K on him, which we considerd low, since we had more healers this time then DPS (just cause the DPS'rs didnt log in for it that day) which I know is well above what alot of people were parsing on him in PUG's. yet he just would not go down below 50% - snake or not, he just kept healing and healing and healing.... never ending.our DPS just couldnt bring him down, cause his healing was so constant, that once we got him down 10-15%, he would start healing for 3-4% per tick, over and over.we kept him at 50-60% for a good 10 minutes before just evacing, cause we were all getting [Removed for Content].it was a ridiculous fight, and thing is, we beat him first day, same way. second time, we had the strat down, knew what to do, where to be, how to do what we needed to do. thing is, he was just impossible that day.we evac'd to start over. on second try, he wasnt bugged so bad, but it still took 6 minutes to take him down.which I consider ridiculous, it doesnt even take 6 minutes to take out byzola, which is a FAR more complicated fight to do right.Digg is simply unpredictable at the moment, DPS and heals, and strats are all useless if he just goes into some endless cycle of super heals.</blockquote>I killed this mob with 39k raid dps, we had an assassin, brigand and swashbuckler proccing the snake debuff it was 200 dps from each of us, whoever you had gettting the snake needs to be looking for it even when the mob doesnt say snake.If your doing the fight correctly you would notice 3-4 rows of the same debuff that disable the mobs healing ability by 5% per, it procs form melee and flashs in your top buff bar when you are able to proc it.

EQPrime

04-09-2009, 02:20 PM

I did this zone for the first time last night and thought it wasn't too bad. We didn't have the best setup but it wasn't too bad. Berserker, mystic, templar, swash, assassin, dirge in the MT group and SK, defiler, wizard, necro, conj, troub in the 2nd group. We didn't have any enchanters with us (2 went with the other half of our crew) but we did fairly well.I thought the first 3 bosses were fairly easy, definitely do-able by a raid with mostly T2 void armor, fabled epics, and some of the decent items from some of the TSO instances. The lightning guy did do some spike damage and you'd probably need decent healers for him. The cold guy had an AoE that might have killed 1 or 2 people but it wasn't too bad. We didn't have much trouble with the trash. We had a few people die if cures weren't quick enough but it was never a serious problem.Diggs seems to be fixed. We didn't do a ton of dps on him (maybe 40k because people were holding back until he started healing). We had one or two people die on the fight because they'd built up a bunch of uncurable noxious effects but it's likely we missed part of the script to cause that.)The fire elemental took a bit of DPS to take down before we got overwhelmed with adds. Having an enchanter mez them might have worked but we didn't have one so we just burned him down.The books would probably be too hard for most pickup raids.Captain Crunch (as I like to call him) was kind of fun because we all rushed him our first try and his AoE was 1-shotting many of the casters each time. We got the timer down and jousted it and it was no problem, just a little slow with his "immunities". I expect a fairly good pickup raid could kill him without much trouble.We ran out of time at Aiden but we had more trouble bouncing back up off of the fire tornados than anything else. He doesn't hit too hard. We kept the tank alive with just the templar while the 2 other healers were trying to make it back from rock mining.I don't see why people are saying anything in here hits harder than VP mobs. That did not seem true at all.

Kriptini

04-10-2009, 06:18 PM

Came in here with a casual group the other day, most were Legendary geared or Mastercrafted. Couldn't get down the first trash mob encounter. ACT registers the x2 mob doing 10-12k damage per swing on the Tank, and that's with Templar and Defiler buffs and heals on a Shadowknight tank that's already healing himself like crazy. Alternatively, I came in here with my guild on the day of launch, and the trash was [Removed for Content]'d. Our raid force was Fabled and Mythical'd. The zone definately needs to be toned down if it's meant for a casual audience.

Vain

04-10-2009, 10:40 PM

<cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Came in here with a casual group the other day, most were Legendary geared or Mastercrafted. Couldn't get down the first trash mob encounter. ACT registers the x2 mob doing 10-12k damage per swing on the Tank, and that's with Templar and Defiler buffs and heals on a Shadowknight tank that's already healing himself like crazy. Alternatively, I came in here with my guild on the day of launch, and the trash was [Removed for Content]'d. Our raid force was Fabled and Mythical'd. The zone definately needs to be toned down if it's meant for a casual audience.</blockquote>Baseline for heroic content = Mastercrafted gear. Baseline for raid content = decent Legendary gear +.Also, it doesn't matter what healer buffs are on yer MT, if he/she has 24K HP and gets hit with a 12K Da, then he/she is dead. De-buffs figure in quite a bit here. De-buff the mob properly and quickly and it hits for a lot less.The comparison between Leg./MC-geared toons and Myth/Fable-geared toons might also want to take into consideration skill level and experience with raiding.The casual audience might have to start thinking outside of the heroic zone mindset. Just so you know, I fit the bill for "casual" - I just like to find opportunities where I can transcend it.

LordPazuzu

04-11-2009, 12:57 AM

<cite>Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Baseline for heroic content = Mastercrafted gear. Baseline for raid content = decent Legendary gear +.Al</blockquote>Baseline for Ward of Elements: Full suit of T2 armor/jewelry + Fabled Epic.

Efour EQ2

04-11-2009, 07:41 AM

Most annoying thing about the zone is you need Q3A or UT skills for the last fight.A floaty LON cloak, racial ability or parachute pack is also essential i think.If you have people that cant jump so good that are ported you fail. Simple as.An encounter based on random luck who gets ported outside the ring..... or exploits their way out...I Despise the last fight in the zone.... IT shouldnt be based on peoples jumping skill !

yohann koldheart

04-11-2009, 04:52 PM

the captain is a easy fight, we use 2 tanks both pretty well raid geared. had the main tank pull the named and a 1 add to the middle and the off tank pull the other add out around the edge. everyone else burn down the add that the main tank has, wile standing out around the edge and the aoe wont touch you. we didnt try jousting. after 1st add is killed, kill the second that the off tank has out around the edge. then the named witch dont hit to hard but has a ton of HP. the trick is staying at range to avoid the aoe. or as somone else posted here try to joust itthe fire guy it a tough fight, we use 1 group for adds, and 1 group for named. then when named is at 20% or so and the adds swarm from every portal everyone burn the named down. when the named gets to 20% and the adds swarm hard i tried to mez but there as to many and they arent linked so no way i could mez them all. just poped a 6 scond aoe mez that gave us enough time to get named burnt before we wiped. then after the wipe revive come back ald clear the adds, for youe loot.we cleared up to aiden before we had to break. cant really get a solid strat on him cause every page you read gives different info. but we'll get him down

ZerkerDwarf

04-11-2009, 08:24 PM

The Aiden fight should not be a Super Mario jump'n'run. We are in a roleplaying game, not a freaking jump'n'run. That style does not suite EQ2 at all.

Xalmat

04-11-2009, 08:27 PM

<cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>Baseline for heroic content = Mastercrafted gear. Baseline for raid content = decent Legendary gear +.Al</blockquote>Baseline for Ward of Elements: Full suit of T2 armor/jewelry + Fabled Epic.</blockquote>Pretty much what they said when it was still in testing.. Anyone in less than T2 armor + Fabled Epic and at least 140 AA shouldn't even be in the zone.

feldon30

04-12-2009, 01:38 AM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pretty much what they said when it was still in testing.. Anyone in less than T2 armor + Fabled Epic and at least 140 AA shouldn't even be in the zone.</blockquote>QFE

Fatuus

04-13-2009, 09:39 AM

This is the Aidan fight in a nutshell....2 people get ported (2 random people that are not the MT) and go to harvest boulders. They must mine the boulder then hop back to the center tower and 1) unpack the boulder then 2) place the boulder so that it cons green successfully blocking the portal.The problem with this is that the dev who developed this fight is dumb. Those 2 people that manage to come back with a boulder and (while dealing with the knockarounds from the fans in the center of the room manage to luckily place the boulders) plant it successfully....3 waves of adds (instead of 10) in 3 seperate encounters of 3 heroic ^^^ mobs each will aggro the raid and attack it. You have about 1 minute to kill all the adds before the dragon comes back down and starts attacking the raid again. The adds also have a power tap on the player they are attacking...so you run out of power very quickly (basically instantly for the OT that trys to grab them).Alternative strategy...you have 5 people (that happen to have feather falling cloaks) go get boulders and come back to place them. You have just enough time that (if everything goes perfect) you can block all the portals and get no adds. The problem with this strat is he has a curse that randomly goes on people that stuns you and makes it impossible to move/cast....This means if you are running to collect boulders you JUST DIED. This also means you have 5 less people killing the named so it becomes a fun 30 minute fight to kill this named...assuming everyone harvests the boulders everytime and noone dies.NOTES TO DEVS:1) MOST CASUAL PLAYERS IN A X2 RAID WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KILL 9 ^^^ HEROIC MOBS in 1 MINUTE on the final mob!2) This should be designed and targeted in difficulty towards Tier 2 shard gear players with maybe their fabled epics. The zone is targeted somewhat for this except for the last 2 bosses now...but do you need to have THAT MUCH TRASH in the zone? I have seen less trash in instances. You should target this zone timewise to be a 1.5 to 2 hour zone instead of 3+ hours to get to the 3rd name in a pug. This has several effects....Effect one...people are unwilling to do this in a pickup manner (basically the same issue you had with most of the TSO instances when they came out.....again another what were you thinking moment). Effect two....you are not getting any feedback from your intended audiance because they never have enough time to kill past the 3rd named (if they have that much time). All of the people who posted here that cleared to Aiden were in X2 groups that were fully mythicaled and very well geared.3) While scripted events are fun, donkey kong style events like the last named are frustrating and stupid. There is nothing fun or exciting about fighting the last named in that zone...its just a stupid encounter. Fix it so that you only need to place 1 boulder to block the beams because you would be lucky if most PUGS could even place one of those boulders in the time required...let alone 4 others. Hardcore guilds which are clearing this fight do it once then will not come back because they are flagged for the X4...which means noone will come to the zone rarely.PLEASE CHANGE THIS FIGHT SO ITS MORE FUN...thanks in advance....

Noaani

04-13-2009, 10:03 AM

<cite>Fatuus wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) This should be designed and targeted in difficulty towards Tier 2 shard gear players with maybe their fabled epics.</blockquote>The first few mobs in the zone are designed with players wearing T2 shard armour, TSO instance dropped jewelery, fabled epics and 140+ achievements. Any less than this and you should not be able to kill the first named.It stands to reason then, that since every other TSO raid zone has been a measuer of progression in itself, that this should be no different. As such, the end mob should be targetted at players in 4 - 5 pieces of T3 set gear and some of the jewelery from this zone.That is what Aiden is aimed at, and it hit its mark (though he does need a minor tweak to give the people getting boulders a few more seconds, and remove the possibility for players to jump over the side of the tower to get their own boulders without being ported).

vinere

04-13-2009, 11:00 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fatuus wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) This should be designed and targeted in difficulty towards Tier 2 shard gear players with maybe their fabled epics.</blockquote>The first few mobs in the zone are designed with players wearing T2 shard armour, TSO instance dropped jewelery, fabled epics and 140+ achievements. Any less than this and you should not be able to kill the first named.It stands to reason then, that since every other TSO raid zone has been a measuer of progression in itself, that this should be no different. As such, the end mob should be targetted at players in 4 - 5 pieces of T3 set gear and some of the jewelery from this zone.That is what Aiden is aimed at, and it hit its mark (though he does need a minor tweak to give the people getting boulders a few more seconds, and remove the possibility for players to jump over the side of the tower to get their own boulders without being ported).</blockquote>the problem with this.. is that no drop in this zone will increase your dps by any real amount... And thus.. there IS NO PROGRESSION... The drops in the zone might give you more hp/power, and very slight dps increase.. but nothing to the level that is required. I dont care if you run this zone every 5 days for a year, without HUGE dps increases from mythicals/x4 raid gear, it wont be done.

Yimway

04-13-2009, 12:09 PM

<cite>Victer@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>anyone kill digg with mostly casters?we pulled about 6 times only spam pulling the snake to him as soon as he dropped under 60%raidwide dps was 40-60k1 scout, 2 fighters, 3 healers, 6 mageshe would stay at 48-55% and we couldnt bring him down further.The dps was there so i donno what else to do.*edit* looking at the parses again a few tries were as high as 72k</blockquote>The 'totem procs' may only proc off melee. Meaning your caster heavy group must be autoattackign to get the effects of the snake, etc. We had similar issues with a caster heavy makeup until we got everyone in there swinging.

Yimway

04-13-2009, 12:16 PM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite> </cite>the problem with this.. is that no drop in this zone will increase your dps by any real amount... And thus.. there IS NO PROGRESSION... The drops in the zone might give you more hp/power, and very slight dps increase.. but nothing to the level that is required. I dont care if you run this zone every 5 days for a year, without HUGE dps increases from mythicals/x4 raid gear, it wont be done.</blockquote>I have some sympathy for this comment. Gearing up inside WoE isn't going to significantly impact your chances with Aiden. Yes, your tank will get some survivability, but that generally isn't the issue. You simply must block AT LEAST 3 portals to be able to handle the adds. If your dps is lower, you need to send more people over to get rocks to block 4 portals.I find that 2 people will get the natural port in time to bring up bolders, then its just a decision of sending 1 or 2 more over the edge to block more doors. If you can handle 2 portals open, send one extra person down, if not send 2 down.Providing everyone is on their mario a game, and your 2 MT healers don't get ported back to back (happened 3 times now), you should be able to win this fight.

Dasein

04-13-2009, 01:06 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fatuus wrote:</cite><blockquote>2) This should be designed and targeted in difficulty towards Tier 2 shard gear players with maybe their fabled epics.</blockquote>The first few mobs in the zone are designed with players wearing T2 shard armour, TSO instance dropped jewelery, fabled epics and 140+ achievements. Any less than this and you should not be able to kill the first named.It stands to reason then, that since every other TSO raid zone has been a measuer of progression in itself, that this should be no different. As such, the end mob should be targetted at players in 4 - 5 pieces of T3 set gear and some of the jewelery from this zone.That is what Aiden is aimed at, and it hit its mark (though he does need a minor tweak to give the people getting boulders a few more seconds, and remove the possibility for players to jump over the side of the tower to get their own boulders without being ported).</blockquote>This sort of slow gearing up progression is fine for raid guilds which have consistent rosters and make loot decisions to maximize raid effectiveness, but it simply doesn't work for non-raid guilds and pick-up raids. A big problem I see is that WoE was designed for players with the raider mentality, not players with a more casual mentality, and so it failed. The non-raiders are non-raiders primarily because they do not want to raid, so expecting them to suddenly act like raiders for this zone isn't going to be successful.

RafaelSmith

04-13-2009, 01:17 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote> A big problem I see is that WoE was designed for players with the raider mentality, not players with a more casual mentality, and so it failed. The non-raiders are non-raiders primarily because they do not want to raid, so expecting them to suddenly act like raiders for this zone isn't going to be successful.</blockquote>How can you call that a "fail"? WOE hit its intended target perfectly IMO.Besides, what exactly does "raid mentality" mean? If you mean requireing people that know their class and know how to pull/position mobs, how to use cure potions, how to form groups...having worked thru most of the TSO instances.....then yeah WOE requires that but that has nothing to do with casual -vs- hardcare or even raider -vs- non-raider.Because while my guild is casual in nature...we have several people that are very good at raiding....we just cant do it all the time and when we do we are limited in the number of people. A x2 like WoE is perfect for us. WOE it its mark perfectly in IMO.

Hecula

04-13-2009, 01:33 PM

Gaige

04-13-2009, 01:40 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>This sort of slow gearing up progression is fine for raid guilds which have consistent rosters and make loot decisions to maximize raid effectiveness, but it simply doesn't work for non-raid guilds and pick-up raids.A big problem I see is that WoE was designed for players with the raider mentality, not players with a more casual mentality, and so it failed.The non-raiders are non-raiders primarily because they do not want to raid, so expecting them to suddenly act like raiders for this zone isn't going to be successful.</blockquote>1) WoE is a RAID ZONE. Its simply a raid zone that requires half as many people but it is a RAID zone. So I see no reason why non-raid guilds have interest in WoE at all. PURs have always been a lot less successful at current content than an organized raid. That doesn't magically change because something is a x2 instead of a x4.2) A raid zone was designed with a raiding mentality? GASP. I can't believe it. Raid zones aren't casual. The raiding playstyle isn't casual. They rarely overlap. This is a raid zone that rewards raid level gear. It just requires 12 people instead of 24 which enables more guilds to use the content, guilds that wouldn't be able to use the x4s as well because of roster size.3) If non-raiders are non-raiders because they do not want to raid why are they worried about the content inside of a x2 raid zone? I don't expect them to act like raiders but I also don't expect them to utilize much less comment on or try to get a raid zone changed.

RafaelSmith

04-13-2009, 01:43 PM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>1) WoE is a RAID ZONE. Its simply a raid zone that requires half as many people but it is a RAID zone. So I see no reason why non-raid guilds have interest in WoE at all. PURs have always been a lot less successful at current content than an organized raid. That doesn't magically change because something is a x2 instead of a x4.2) A raid zone was designed with a raiding mentality? GASP. I can't believe it. Raid zones aren't casual. The raiding playstyle isn't casual. They rarely overlap. This is a raid zone that rewards raid level gear. It just requires 12 people instead of 24 which enables more guilds to use the content, guilds that wouldn't be able to use the x4s as well because of roster size.3) If non-raiders are non-raiders because they do not want to raid why are they worried about the content inside of a x2 raid zone? I don't expect them to act like raiders but I also don't expect them to utilize much less comment on or try to get a raid zone changed.</blockquote>Well said.Not sure where people got the idea that WOE was going to be a Deep Forge or Scion for 12.

EQPrime

04-13-2009, 02:09 PM

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>This sort of slow gearing up progression is fine for raid guilds which have consistent rosters and make loot decisions to maximize raid effectiveness, but it simply doesn't work for non-raid guilds and pick-up raids. A big problem I see is that WoE was designed for players with the raider mentality, not players with a more casual mentality, and so it failed. The non-raiders are non-raiders primarily because they do not want to raid, so expecting them to suddenly act like raiders for this zone isn't going to be successful.</blockquote>So you're saying non-raid guilds have less consistent rosters than raid guilds do? I'm a member of a very casual guild and while we formed an alliance with another small guild for grouping and raiding, we are still very casual. We do not see much turnover at all in our guild roster. I've seen the constant recruitment that many of the high end raid guilds have to go through. I'd bet that my guild roster has a lot less turnover.Pick-up raids will always run into problems with a consistent raidforce but that's the nature of pick-up raids.Non-raiders are non-raiders for many reasons. If the reason is that the person doesn't like to raid then what is he or she doing in a raid zone in the first place?

Yimway

04-13-2009, 02:23 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well said.Not sure where people got the idea that WOE was going to be a Deep Forge or Scion for 12.</blockquote>I kinda got the fealing it was PoF for 12.And thats about where it landed to me except for the lockout timer.It would be nice to be able to run 2x/wk, so like a 2d 20h lockout would be nicer. But I can deal, I got the alts.

Noaani

04-14-2009, 05:57 AM

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>So you're saying non-raid guilds have less consistent rosters than raid guilds do?</blockquote>In my own experiance, the more casual the guild, the more stable its roster.Casual guilds don't suffer from burnout that raid guilds do, they don't boot people for not showing up for a week, they usually don't have anywhere near the amount of drama that cause people to leave (and the drama they do have is usually confined to a smaller group of people, because no one cares).This is from being in guilds ranging from total casual - anyone can join and do whatever they want type guilds to family - only invite people we know, do what content we can, but absolutly no pressure type guilds, and up to we-have-the-server-on-lockdown type guilds, where not logging on for one day without notifying an officer would result in a phone call.

Yimway

04-14-2009, 12:00 PM

I'll agree with Aiden being out of whack after what we encountered with him lastnight. Note, this is 12 people that have done in 4 times successfully, and our timers just rereshed on our raid geared mains.We had issues with smoldering updraft not working on the tornadoes.We had issues with curse firing on people being ported. Nothing like getting ported into a lava pool and immediately cursed with a root.With all that, we'd still get 3 portals blocked, but due to the above bugs, we'd be short 3-4 people when the adds spawned. Being short that many, getting the adds down in the short window before aiden returns was problematic. Add to that atleast one of our healers was out due to the above issues on 4:5 tries, when aiden returned with a few adds still up, the results were predicatable.Hopefully todays patch will solve some of these problems.

victer

04-14-2009, 12:55 PM

all this talk about the zone being meant for casual or hardcore or w/e doesnt matter. They already stated what the zone was meant for... Its meant for people that are with their fabled epics and heroic gear.Sure it may still be difficult for this type of setup but it should still be possible for people without mythicals and TSO raid gear but it simply is not. If the last encounter it giving a mythical/TSO raid geared raid alot of problems then there is no way that the intented audiance is going to do it.And that is the problem... i dont see anyone without the better gear clearing anything past the book room. I dont care how many times you run the start of this zone and get your raid full of t3 shard armor.Suggestions for the last fight.<ul><li>Change the con of the adds from ^^^ to ^^.<ul><li>or make the adds despawn as soon as the name gets back into the fight.</li></ul></li><li>Make it so that healers do not get ported as well as the person tanking the name.</li><li>Make it so that you only need 1 gust of wind to make it to the other side. (no need to use 2 of them)</li><li>Make the rocks be placed automaticly if the person uses it in the general area of the portal.</li></ul>

Yimway

04-14-2009, 01:15 PM

<cite>Victer@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>Make the rocks be placed automaticly if the person uses it in the general area of the portal.</li></ul></blockquote>They can be palced in the general area and you still get the text that it is blocked.Todays patch also lowered the con of the adds as well as provides a speed increase on smoldering updraft. it might be possible to get up top with only hitting one tornado now.I hope to test it again more tonight and see what the impact is.I do agree, as he was yesterday vs how he was last week, your not doing this without raidgear + myth. The primary issue being the updraft and curse bugs causing less than a full raid party up top when adds spawn.

Thunndar316

04-14-2009, 08:55 PM

Yimway

04-15-2009, 11:16 AM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bugs me also. They want X2 content balanced for people cranking out 60K DPS. Wonderful.I would like to add this. I'm proud that my team of 11 was able to kill the 2nd named parsing under 15K DPS. We even had a 78 Monk. </blockquote>We beat dig on alts with less than 12 players doing 17k dps.While cranking 70k makes things easier, honestly the fire elemental is the only true dps check in the zone.

liveja

04-15-2009, 01:13 PM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm proud that my team of 11 was able to kill the 2nd named parsing under 15K DPS. We even had a 78 Monk. </blockquote>Congratulations, & I mean that sincerely.Of course, your being able to do so also kinda tells me that the zone is probably closer to being "right" for its chosen audience than otherwise, all of which makes me happy.

RafaelSmith

04-15-2009, 01:24 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm proud that my team of 11 was able to kill the 2nd named parsing under 15K DPS. We even had a 78 Monk.</blockquote>Congratulations, & I mean that sincerely.Of course, your being able to do so also kinda tells me that the zone is probably closer to being "right" for its chosen audience than otherwise, all of which makes me happy.</blockquote>Aye.My guild has only been able to sucessfully take out the first 3 named three times now. I think our highest raidwide DPS is in the 20kish range. NO mythicals, not even VP flaged. We otten tried the Books and the fire elemental but just get overwhelmed....but we know we can figure it out. No clue about the rest. Digg still owns us.We believe the zone is exactly right for its chosen audience.My advice to those having issues with the Water elemental BOSS....ignore the wiki strats and such....in reality this guy is a simple pull-tank-heal-spank.

Noaani

04-15-2009, 01:58 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Digg still owns us.</blockquote>What is it you are doing on Digg to make him wipe you?Any raid with the gear to be able to get up to him should be able to kill him if they have a good understanding of the encounter. This is not a fight that requires good gear.

RafaelSmith

04-15-2009, 02:08 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Digg still owns us.</blockquote>What is it you are doing on Digg to make him wipe you?Any raid with the gear to be able to get up to him should be able to kill him if they have a good understanding of the encounter. This is not a fight that requires good gear.</blockquote>We just havent tried him enough times to iron out the strat/encounter. We are not lacking the gear or anything like that...we just need to learn the encounter. I am hoping to get enough folks tonight to go back and try again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

04-15-2009, 02:30 PM

Noaani

04-15-2009, 02:39 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>We just havent tried him enough times to iron out the strat/encounter. We are not lacking the gear or anything like that...we just need to learn the encounter. I am hoping to get enough folks tonight to go back and try again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Only advice I can give, based on previous comments from you, the wikia strat is 90% accurate. If you know the bit its got wrong, you'll be fine.<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Generally its people meleeing on him before the stiffle/dot reactive is counteracted.</blockquote>Rule #1 of this fight is: healers and those that are fetching do not DPS.If you've got that rule sorted, the stifle shouldn't be an issue.

vinere

04-15-2009, 03:16 PM

Just have one person getting Badger when its called, and snake when its called... when they call for shroom just go all out dps, and heal it. When they call snake, have everyone melee.... tell them when they call badger to stop all dps, when badger is called you get hit for 2k everytime you do damnge to the mob until its placed, once its placed you can dps, but sometimes it gets bugged and you still take damnage.... Just tell the fewlz to watch there health bar, and back the off if they get under 50%~

RafaelSmith

04-15-2009, 03:30 PM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just have one person getting Badger when its called, and snake when its called... when they call for shroom just go all out dps, and heal it. When they call snake, have everyone melee.... tell them when they call badger to stop all dps, when badger is called you get hit for 2k everytime you do damnge to the mob until its placed, once its placed you can dps, but sometimes it gets bugged and you still take damnage.... Just tell the fewlz to watch there health bar, and back the off if they get under 50%~</blockquote>Our main issue is that we have not attempted him enough or long enough to even figure out what picking up the snake or badger or placing the snake or badger involves. Hehe have yet to even survive long enough to see what it is were suppose to pick up and we had someone just assigned to extending the bridges, etc =PLike I said we still learning the basics of the encounter.But what you say kinda explains what happened to us the time we did try......almost immediately after engaging him he called Badger at which point we just killed ourselves pretty quickly =P

Kunaak

04-15-2009, 04:20 PM

this aiden fight is most definatly a disaster.we post 70 to 90k DPS in there on most fights, depending on who we get on the raid that day, on our good days our DPS is great, and most fights go well, we got all strats worked out, and know what to do in what situation.but the aiden fight is a total disaster.see its not based on DPS, or strat, its based on how lucky someone is, at actually landing on something, and getting back to something, in a short amount of time.meaning, theres no reliable way to do this fight, sometimes it goes OK, most of the time fails miserably cause someone was a inch to the left, and missed some tornado, we get overwhelmed by adds, and thats it... wipe.when you remove every equation out of a fight, and base a very important part of the fight on a buggy "might happen, might not", thing thats almost totally luck, it really discourages people from ever trying the fight again.its basically to the point where when someone calls out "missed the tornado" we just evac.its dumb, cause theres no recovery.the worst part is, you can literally just fall through the tornados, I've done that a few times myself.this fight really needs to be worked on.

Noaani

04-15-2009, 04:23 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>see its not based on DPS, or strat, its based on how lucky someone is, at actually landing on something, and getting back to something, in a short amount of time.</blockquote>Hi!Thats not luck that gets them back in time, its skill!

vinere

04-15-2009, 04:26 PM

<cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just have one person getting Badger when its called, and snake when its called... when they call for shroom just go all out dps, and heal it. When they call snake, have everyone melee.... tell them when they call badger to stop all dps, when badger is called you get hit for 2k everytime you do damnge to the mob until its placed, once its placed you can dps, but sometimes it gets bugged and you still take damnage.... Just tell the fewlz to watch there health bar, and back the off if they get under 50%~</blockquote>Our main issue is that we have not attempted him enough or long enough to even figure out what picking up the snake or badger or placing the snake or badger involves. Hehe have yet to even survive long enough to see what it is were suppose to pick up and we had someone just assigned to extending the bridges, etc =PLike I said we still learning the basics of the encounter.But what you say kinda explains what happened to us the time we did try......almost immediately after engaging him he called Badger at which point we just killed ourselves pretty quickly =P</blockquote>He seems to call badger first everytime.. So next time you go tell everyone that only the tank engages.. everyone else waits for someoen to get the badger... If your looking at the mobs face(before you pull), the badger spawns to the right.

Yimway

04-15-2009, 06:00 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>see its not based on DPS, or strat, its based on how lucky someone is, at actually landing on something, and getting back to something, in a short amount of time.</blockquote>Hi!Thats not luck that gets them back in time, its skill!</blockquote>I dunno... I mean its mario skill, I'm not sure its a core eq2 player skill. Well until now.Trak requires some minor arcade type skill to land safely, but this takes that to a completely different level. There are many people skilled at eq2 play that are not skillful at what this one encounter requires.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 04:02 PM

Good afternoon all. I can not speak on the Aiden fight as we have not yet progressed that far yet, but I do think that the Dayakara fight is a bit too hard in its current state. My guild can and has killed the first 3 name pretty easily once we got the Khost strat down. We haven't beaten Digg yet but I have no doubts that we can once everyone really understands the strat and we get our /raid calls down. However, the issue with Dayakara is that I sincerely doubt that the level of gear that this zone is aimed it will be able to produce the amount of DPS that it takes to burn this named down before the adds overwhelm the raid. My guild is consistently putting out around 20k dps or so. 3 people have their myths (which shouldn't be necessary according to the developers) and most (if not all) have their fabled epics. Also, most if not all have their full t2 set gear with a few t1's for certain classes and certains slots filling in the gaps. Taking all this into consideration, I simply do not believe that getting those last few t2 items will help with the DPS discrepancy we are noticing. I would suggest either lowering the HPs of the adds or increasing the amount of time between their spawns. This by itself would probably allow us to adequately burn them before the next set arrives and dps on the Dayakara as well. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.*Edited for spelling*

Yimway

04-16-2009, 04:27 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good afternoon all. I can not speak on the Aiden fight as we have not yet progressed that far yet, but I do think that the Dayakara fight is a bit too hard in its current state. My guild can and has killed the first 3 name pretty easily once we got the Khost strat down. We haven't beaten Digg yet but I have no doubts that we can once everyone really understands the strat and we get our /raid calls down. However, the issue with Dayakara is that I sincerely doubt that the level of gear that this zone is aimed it will be able to produce the amount of DPS that it takes to burn this named down before the adds overwhelm the raid. My guild is consistently putting out around 20k dps or so. 3 people have their myths (which shouldn't be necessary according to the developers) and most (if not all) have their fabled epics. Also, most if not all have their full t2 set gear with a few t1's for certain classes and certains slots filling in the gaps. Taking all this into consideration, I simply do not believe that getting those last few t2 items will help with the DPS discrepancy we are noticing. I would suggest either lowering the HPs of the adds or increasing the amount of time between their spawns. This by itself would probably allow us to adequately burn them before the next set arrives and dps on the Dayakara as well. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.*Edited for spelling*</blockquote>This fight is a 'skill check' fight.Bring one tank that can keep aoe aggro and 30k dps and you should win.12 players shouldn't have a problem putting out 30k combined dps. If your guild is having trouble, you need to have everyone examine their aa's, class strategy, group buffs and makeup, and make sure you've all got the AA you should have.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 04:47 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Good afternoon all. I can not speak on the Aiden fight as we have not yet progressed that far yet, but I do think that the Dayakara fight is a bit too hard in its current state. My guild can and has killed the first 3 name pretty easily once we got the Khost strat down. We haven't beaten Digg yet but I have no doubts that we can once everyone really understands the strat and we get our /raid calls down. However, the issue with Dayakara is that I sincerely doubt that the level of gear that this zone is aimed it will be able to produce the amount of DPS that it takes to burn this named down before the adds overwhelm the raid. My guild is consistently putting out around 20k dps or so. 3 people have their myths (which shouldn't be necessary according to the developers) and most (if not all) have their fabled epics. Also, most if not all have their full t2 set gear with a few t1's for certain classes and certains slots filling in the gaps. Taking all this into consideration, I simply do not believe that getting those last few t2 items will help with the DPS discrepancy we are noticing. I would suggest either lowering the HPs of the adds or increasing the amount of time between their spawns. This by itself would probably allow us to adequately burn them before the next set arrives and dps on the Dayakara as well. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.*Edited for spelling*</blockquote>This fight is a 'skill check' fight.Bring one tank that can keep aoe aggro and 30k dps and you should win.12 players shouldn't have a problem putting out 30k combined dps. If your guild is having trouble, you need to have everyone examine their aa's, class strategy, group buffs and makeup, and make sure you've all got the AA you should have.</blockquote>Unfortunately Atan, I must respectfully disagree with you. I do not believe that 12 players can easily put out 30k combined DPS as you claim. I could give you my opinions on reasons but I fear it would degrade into a yes you can, no you can't, yes you can argument. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the people wearing the gear that they "aimed" this zone at to put out that kind of DPS with 12 people. Maybe if it were a x4 zone with 24 people, but not 12. Especially when considering that at least 3 (sometimes as many as 5) of those people are healers who don't put out a lot of DPS when they try hard, and aren't really trying hard in this encounter since they are healing the MT or MT and OT while we try to burn down the named and/or adds (we have tried it both ways). Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Yimway

04-16-2009, 04:54 PM

urgthock

04-16-2009, 05:05 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unfortunately Atan, I must respectfully disagree with you. I do not believe that 12 players can easily put out 30k combined DPS as you claim. I could give you my opinions on reasons but I fear it would degrade into a yes you can, no you can't, yes you can argument. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the people wearing the gear that they "aimed" this zone at to put out that kind of DPS with 12 people. Maybe if it were a x4 zone with 24 people, but not 12. Especially when considering that at least 3 (sometimes as many as 5) of those people are healers who don't put out a lot of DPS when they try hard, and aren't really trying hard in this encounter since they are healing the MT or MT and OT while we try to burn down the named and/or adds (we have tried it both ways). Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>Our templar parsed 2800 on this fight, just sayin.12x 2.5k = 30k 2.5k average is not hard to achieve with T2 shard gear + fabled epic.</blockquote>Was your templar wearing the kind of gear that this zone was claimed to be aimed at? Was your Tank? If so, then I will have to admit that it is doable since you have done it, although I am still doubtful.Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Geothe

04-16-2009, 05:17 PM

5 healers??Wow.30k should not be too much at all to ask for 2 full groups to do honestly.yes, if you bring a raid full of just guardians and defilers, you'll have issues, you actually need to bring well thought out groups to help maximize things if you're border-line in the first place."x2" doesn't mean "cake walk"

Yimway

04-16-2009, 05:20 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite>Was your templar wearing the kind of gear that this zone was claimed to be aimed at? Was your Tank? If so, then I will have to admit that it is doable since you have done it, although I am still doubtful.Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>In fairness, our templar is mythed and wearing a combination of VP and T2 gear. However i find VP and T2 gear to be nearly the same gear level.We use an alt SK tank for these runs so our MT can zone in and loot what he needs whenever it drops. The tank we're using is pure T2 shard gear and a mythical.My point though, you should be able to make 30k dps with 12 players in t2 + fabled epic. If you are not getting there, you guys need to spend some time researching and optomizing.I do feel trying this fight without a good aoe tank makes it far more challenging and you might have to alternate your strategy to overcome it.We find though SK tank and 30k+ dps and you have enough time to just have him aoe tank the named + all adds and get it burned down in time before everyone is overwhelmed by adds. The adds themselves do not hit for much and a tank can easily survive many of them beating on him.

vinere

04-16-2009, 05:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite>Was your templar wearing the kind of gear that this zone was claimed to be aimed at? Was your Tank? If so, then I will have to admit that it is doable since you have done it, although I am still doubtful.Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>In fairness, our templar is mythed and wearing a combination of VP and T2 gear. However i find VP and T2 gear to be nearly the same gear level.We use an alt SK tank for these runs so our MT can zone in and loot what he needs whenever it drops. The tank we're using is pure T2 shard gear and a mythical.My point though, you should be able to make 30k dps with 12 players in t2 + fabled epic. If you are not getting there, you guys need to spend some time researching and optomizing.I do feel trying this fight without a good aoe tank makes it far more challenging and you might have to alternate your strategy to overcome it.We find though SK tank and 30k+ dps and you have enough time to just have him aoe tank the named + all adds and get it burned down in time before everyone is overwhelmed by adds. The adds themselves do not hit for much and a tank can easily survive many of them beating on him.</blockquote>Which is the problem.. any tank should be able to tank it.. not just an sk ~_~

Yimway

04-16-2009, 05:28 PM

<cite>vinere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Which is the problem.. any tank should be able to tank it.. not just an sk ~_~</blockquote>It is The Shadowknight Odessy afterall...But, Our Pally I know has tanked it, I'd bet our zerker if he timed his gibe right could as well.I play the guard, and I've yet to try him in the zone as I'm keeping his timer open, it would suck, but should be doable with the right spec.Brawlers? lawl.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 06:19 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>5 healers??Wow.30k should not be too much at all to ask for 2 full groups to do honestly.yes, if you bring a raid full of just guardians and defilers, you'll have issues, you actually need to bring well thought out groups to help maximize things if you're border-line in the first place."x2" doesn't mean "cake walk"</blockquote>Actually, if you notice what I wrote, it was 3-5. It truly depends on who is available at the time we run the raid and already has their t2 gear (or at least a majority of it). I truly believe that neither gear, nor skill, nor group makeup is lacking in this instance. While not an expert by any means on raiding we have all communicated thoroughly what is required and had discussions on how to maximize dps through gear, autoattack timing, casting order etc. Everyone has at least 4 pieces of t2 gear (and most have full set), and If i can recall correctly, our last try was as follows.Group 1 (pretty much set each time we go)Myth Berserker (tank)Fabled epic swash (me)Fabled epic inq (I know... wheres the temp... he's AWOL at the moment LOL)Fabled epic defilerFabled epic dirgeFabled epic coercerGroup 2Myth wizzyMyth brigandFabled epic illyFabled epic wardenFabled epic conjFabled epic furyI don't remember our raid zonewide but my zonewide was right around 4k. Since Dayakara is basically a tank n spank n burn down fast, I liken it to the first named actually, just with a difference of having the MT grab and keep the adds. On the first named our raid DPS was right around 21k (mine was 4.9k). I happen to think this is a pretty good group setup, although of course trading one of the druids out for a troub would be ideal. But since we don't really have a troub (consistently) the second group is made up of who is available. If you think that we could feasibly set up our group better, please do let me know, understanding this caveat... As a casual guild, we don't always have the perfect setup available. On a side note I AM one of those people that likes to try to do all I can to better myself at my class. As a melee DPS class I know that gear will account for a lot, but so does player skill. If anyone thinks I can/should be doing better than I have been PLEASE let me know constructively. You are welcome to send me a PM with suggestions on what I can do skillwise to parse higher, since my playstyle and time is not conducive to being able to invest large amounts of time to get better gear (pregnant wife, 5 year old, full time job, studying to get my CPA). My swash's name is Krislyn and I play on the Oasis server. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Slowin

04-16-2009, 06:29 PM

Sadly, a well played troubador would increase your dps by about 8k. I know that illy/troub buffs account for roughly 30% of conj dps alone. Kinda ridiculous the amount of difference a bard makes... hence why successful raid guilds have 4-5 bards consistently. Its dumb, but it is what it is.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 06:39 PM

<cite>Slowin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sadly, a well played troubador would increase your dps by about 8k. I know that illy/troub buffs account for roughly 30% of conj dps alone. Kinda ridiculous the amount of difference a bard makes... hence why successful raid guilds have 4-5 bards consistently. Its dumb, but it is what it is.</blockquote>That is truly a shame to think that we may suffer from not being able to progress through this zone beyond Digg due to lack of 1 key class.

Yimway

04-16-2009, 06:39 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Group 1 (pretty much set each time we go)Myth Berserker (tank)Fabled epic swash (me)Fabled epic inq (I know... wheres the temp... he's AWOL at the moment LOL)Fabled epic defilerFabled epic dirgeFabled epic coercerGroup 2Myth wizzyMyth brigandFabled epic illyFabled epic wardenFabled epic conjFabled epic furyMy swash's name is Krislyn and I play on the Oasis server. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>Try this:Berserker, Swash, Warden, Defiler, dirge, coercerWizzy, brig, illy, inq, conj, furyorzerker, warden, inq, defiler, coercer, conjwiz, illy, brig, swash, dirge, furyMy point being, I'm not sure your maximizing your groups. If your zerker can still hold aggro in aoe while everyone else single target burns, the second makeup will do better at maximizing dps. Be sure the defiler is roa on conj, I'd have the dirge flury buff the swash and the fury melee buff the brig. Oh IA on the dirge of course.Just my 2cp.Oh, my expectation of above group dps wise:Zerk 4.5k, warden 1k, inq 1k, defiler .5k, coercer 4k, conj 4kWiz 6k, brig 5k, swash 5k, dirge 3k, fury 2k36k dps should be achievable with that group with the gear you have.

Apos

04-16-2009, 06:40 PM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unfortunately Atan, I must respectfully disagree with you. I do not believe that 12 players can easily put out 30k combined DPS as you claim. I could give you my opinions on reasons but I fear it would degrade into a yes you can, no you can't, yes you can argument. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the people wearing the gear that they "aimed" this zone at to put out that kind of DPS with 12 people. Maybe if it were a x4 zone with 24 people, but not 12. Especially when considering that at least 3 (sometimes as many as 5) of those people are healers who don't put out a lot of DPS when they try hard, and aren't really trying hard in this encounter since they are healing the MT or MT and OT while we try to burn down the named and/or adds (we have tried it both ways). Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>Meaning no disrespect, but I can't imagine you are using all the available tools if you are having to use 5 healers to keep up a tank with a 6 set bonus for t2 shard armor up in the zone. I solo healed a t2 shard tank in the zone completely as a mystic (my normal tank was locked out), with a druid in the second group, and it was a little difficult but frankly I expected it to be harder than it was. I think that you might not be using all the non-raid tools available at your disposal if you are finding it that difficult to keep a tank alive, like I mean, a non-raid plate tank should be getting to 70%+ avoidance without any raid gear whatsoever and if you put a non-raid geared brawler with an avoidance lend on them with similar avoidance, then with a templar even solo healing them with shield ally and also 40ish% avoidance and a dirge in group... well, I mean, they just won't be hard to keep up. I mean, is your tank using a 3% riposte fabled adorn on mainhand, 3% parry adorns on each wrist, parry/food drink, a danak mastercrafted neck for 2% parry (if you aren't using fabled, that will blow away anything you could be using), runnyeye cloak. With cleric/avoidance lend fighter doing the same thing. I mean maybe he is but honestly I'd be pretty surprised if you are having to use 5 healers.

feldon30

04-16-2009, 06:49 PM

5 healers seems excessive for this zone. Perhaps there is a lack of curing or positional issues. Tempest fight and Water guy will kill you if you are not standing in the right place.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 07:22 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Group 1 (pretty much set each time we go)Myth Berserker (tank)Fabled epic swash (me)Fabled epic inq (I know... wheres the temp... he's AWOL at the moment LOL)Fabled epic defilerFabled epic dirgeFabled epic coercerGroup 2Myth wizzyMyth brigandFabled epic illyFabled epic wardenFabled epic conjFabled epic furyMy swash's name is Krislyn and I play on the Oasis server. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>Try this:Berserker, Swash, Warden, Defiler, dirge, coercerWizzy, brig, illy, inq, conj, furyorzerker, warden, inq, defiler, coercer, conjwiz, illy, brig, swash, dirge, furyMy point being, I'm not sure your maximizing your groups. If your zerker can still hold aggro in aoe while everyone else single target burns, the second makeup will do better at maximizing dps. Be sure the defiler is roa on conj, I'd have the dirge flury buff the swash and the fury melee buff the brig. Oh IA on the dirge of course.Just my 2cp.Oh, my expectation of above group dps wise:Zerk 4.5k, warden 1k, inq 1k, defiler .5k, coercer 4k, conj 4kWiz 6k, brig 5k, swash 5k, dirge 3k, fury 2k36k dps should be achievable with that group with the gear you have.</blockquote>I will definitely make those suggestions to the raid leader. Thank you for your help and input Atan. One thing though, your melee expectations are just about right, that seems to be what we are running. But the caster dps your expecting is way high compared to what we are experiencing (except for the wizzy, he is parsing 6k). May have to have a talk with our casters. To be fair, I made a mistake on the second group makeup we had, one of the druids was a myth necro. The necro, conj, and coercer were all dpsing much lower than your stated expectations. More in the realm of 2kish each (and the necro was like 1.8k. I remember thinking that was really low for a myth necro) But again, thank you Atan.

urgthock

04-16-2009, 07:25 PM

<cite>Apos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unfortunately Atan, I must respectfully disagree with you. I do not believe that 12 players can easily put out 30k combined DPS as you claim. I could give you my opinions on reasons but I fear it would degrade into a yes you can, no you can't, yes you can argument. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the people wearing the gear that they "aimed" this zone at to put out that kind of DPS with 12 people. Maybe if it were a x4 zone with 24 people, but not 12. Especially when considering that at least 3 (sometimes as many as 5) of those people are healers who don't put out a lot of DPS when they try hard, and aren't really trying hard in this encounter since they are healing the MT or MT and OT while we try to burn down the named and/or adds (we have tried it both ways). Thank you for taking the time to read my post.</blockquote>Meaning no disrespect, but I can't imagine you are using all the available tools if you are having to use 5 healers to keep up a tank with a 6 set bonus for t2 shard armor up in the zone. I solo healed a t2 shard tank in the zone completely as a mystic (my normal tank was locked out), with a druid in the second group, and it was a little difficult but frankly I expected it to be harder than it was. I think that you might not be using all the non-raid tools available at your disposal if you are finding it that difficult to keep a tank alive, like I mean, a non-raid plate tank should be getting to 70%+ avoidance without any raid gear whatsoever and if you put a non-raid geared brawler with an avoidance lend on them with similar avoidance, then with a templar even solo healing them with shield ally and also 40ish% avoidance and a dirge in group... well, I mean, they just won't be hard to keep up. I mean, is your tank using a 3% riposte fabled adorn on mainhand, 3% parry adorns on each wrist, parry/food drink, a danak mastercrafted neck for 2% parry (if you aren't using fabled, that will blow away anything you could be using), runnyeye cloak. With cleric/avoidance lend fighter doing the same thing. I mean maybe he is but honestly I'd be pretty surprised if you are having to use 5 healers.</blockquote>Actually, as per my most recent post, I just recalled we had 3 healers the last time we went. We only had 5 healers one time, all other times has been 3 or 4. And to be honest, we just roll in with that many because we expected it to be hard enough to need them. We may have to rethink that assumption. Thank you for the advice Apos.

Thunndar316

04-16-2009, 08:26 PM

Well, our last raid was parsing right at 15K and it is pathetic I know. The Assassin and myself were doing around 10, (no Dirge) and the SK tank was around 3. Four healers doin nothing, a Wizzy around 1500, a 78 Monk who couldn't hit the mobs, (lol I know but it's all we had). Illy who doesn't know the class yet. Just leveled it to have one in guild. Zerker off tank, ect.Total of 11. Now you should be able to hit 30K no problem if you have the resources to pick and choose which classes you want. However, we don't have that luxery, and as you can see we couldn't even scrape together 12 level 80's because two people didn't show.I'm pretty sure we can do the 3rd named and Digg, but we're not taking down the Fire guy or the rest for a very long time if DPS is the real requirement and not skill.

Loxus

04-17-2009, 10:58 AM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>this aiden fight is most definatly a disaster.we post 70 to 90k DPS in there on most fights, depending on who we get on the raid that day, on our good days our DPS is great, and most fights go well, we got all strats worked out, and know what to do in what situation.but the aiden fight is a total disaster.see its not based on DPS, or strat, its based on how lucky someone is, at actually landing on something, and getting back to something, in a short amount of time.meaning, theres no reliable way to do this fight, sometimes it goes OK, most of the time fails miserably cause someone was a inch to the left, and missed some tornado, we get overwhelmed by adds, and thats it... wipe.when you remove every equation out of a fight, and base a very important part of the fight on a buggy "might happen, might not", thing thats almost totally luck, it really discourages people from ever trying the fight again.its basically to the point where when someone calls out "missed the tornado" we just evac.its dumb, cause theres no recovery.the worst part is, you can literally just fall through the tornados, I've done that a few times myself.this fight really needs to be worked on.</blockquote>Soe isn't going to adjust this fight too much beyond what it's set at now. It's the choke point for the zone to keep everyone from burning through the X2 and right into the X4. They have it set so only thier premier guilds will get first crack (and Beta test it) at the loot. When they had their fill they will adjust the difficulty (mostly upwards) of the X4, unbug the Aiden fight, and fix it so Najena spawns all the time at the end of the zone. They will let us commoners in after their favorites are 80% complete with the zone, we'll just have to wait our turn.

Yimway

04-17-2009, 11:47 AM

<cite>urgthock wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will definitely make those suggestions to the raid leader. Thank you for your help and input Atan. One thing though, your melee expectations are just about right, that seems to be what we are running. But the caster dps your expecting is way high compared to what we are experiencing (except for the wizzy, he is parsing 6k). May have to have a talk with our casters. To be fair, I made a mistake on the second group makeup we had, one of the druids was a myth necro. The necro, conj, and coercer were all dpsing much lower than your stated expectations. More in the realm of 2kish each (and the necro was like 1.8k. I remember thinking that was really low for a myth necro) But again, thank you Atan.</blockquote>Np, was offering some perspective that you guys might be able to work it out.I believe your other casters can parse where I placed them at, they probably just need to do some research on flames regaurding spell priority and aa selection. Maybe even a little gear optomization as well if they're really behind. But all in all, with a little work I think you can bring that group up to winning.But this isn't unique to WoE, this is true of raiding advancement in general. I'd wager at your current output levels group zones like PoF are giving you trouble as well. But, if your gear is where this zone expects it to be, with some optomizations, you should be able to be more successful.Lastly, I personally recommend workign on Digg first. While the script is more complicated, the min gear / dps to kill him is much less. Learn the script, and he dies fairly easy.