Assassin challenge ZOMG from a Ranger?¿? [Archive]

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StealthM0

03-20-2009, 12:37 AM

OK who here has the kahunies to take up this challenge? I say this, we rangers are gonna prove something for SoE developers/producers once and for all...Parse the training wall. EXACTLY like the rangers in the link below did. I dare you.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=412443">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=412443</a>This is gonna show something I been saying for a while now. Who is up to the challenge? Please post the pertinent info like dem rangerz did. We got a legitimate beef here I know I rolled an assassin, and erm, yeah mechanics make all the difference between the two classes, cough.

conscript

03-20-2009, 09:47 AM

Lets see...First, you're on an Bluebie server.Second, You have stackable snares.Third, You have range.End of discussion.

Vuz

03-20-2009, 10:59 AM

<cite>conscript wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lets see...First, you're on an Bluebie server.Second, You have stackable snares.Third, You have range.End of discussion.</blockquote>Should I call you Aeralik? Let's talk raid scenario.

Lethe5683

03-20-2009, 12:39 PM

<cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK who here has the kahunies to take up this challenge? I say this, we rangers are gonna prove something for SoE developers/producers once and for all...Parse the training wall. EXACTLY like the rangers in the link below did. I dare you.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=412443">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=412443</a>This is gonna show something I been saying for a while now. Who is up to the challenge? Please post the pertinent info like dem rangerz did. We got a legitimate beef here I know I rolled an assassin, and erm, yeah mechanics make all the difference between the two classes, cough.</blockquote>What's your point?

StealthM0

03-20-2009, 04:42 PM

Please do not reply to this thread, it is for testing purposes only to help balance the classes for combat damage. This is only phase one (a solo test), phase two is hate/combat testing in a group scenario, and finally phase three is hate/combat testing in a raid scenario. Least thats what I am trying to accomplish here.Please, honestly, I may have come off like an <ninja the word ar$e with language filter, why a$rse is used in childrens books>. But this is for legitimate purposes to help with the upcoming revamp/lu/changes.....look me up on testcopy when it's back up if you prefer to test there. But this is to show on live whats wrong NOW. *)

Brimestar

03-21-2009, 12:01 AM

Are you jealous of the dmg we can output? Seems like you'll be better served posting this in the Ranger Forum.

StealthM0

03-24-2009, 02:06 PM

<cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you jealous of the dmg we can output? Seems like you'll be better served posting this in the Ranger Forum.</blockquote>We have the thread in the rangers forum already, linked to it in top post. Was trying to get a testbase to compare to rangers. But it appears no assassin has kahunies like dem rangers do.

Gaige

03-24-2009, 02:07 PM

This thread is silly.

Lethe5683

03-26-2009, 03:04 AM

TuxDave

03-26-2009, 08:24 PM

<cite>Gage wrote:</cite><blockquote>This thread is silly.</blockquote>Mainly because without even parsing I can tell you that a fabled ranger is going to get smoked by a fabled assassin.

Gaige

03-26-2009, 08:27 PM

<cite>Ijai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mainly because without even parsing I can tell you that a fabled ranger is going to get smoked by a fabled assassin.</blockquote>On trash. Woop ti do.

Kokus

03-27-2009, 01:04 PM

<cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brimestar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are you jealous of the dmg we can output? Seems like you'll be better served posting this in the Ranger Forum.</blockquote>We have the thread in the rangers forum already, linked to it in top post. Was trying to get a testbase to compare to rangers. But it appears no assassin has kahunies like dem rangers do.</blockquote>So this is what rangers do when they're sitting out on raids...

Brimestar

03-28-2009, 04:31 PM

I giggled at the last <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Why don't you just roll a ranger on a pvp server and get your myth and be insanely OP and you can find a use once again.

Farore

03-29-2009, 07:07 PM

Assassins can hit more than us on really short trash fights and they can spike up to 15 K +, something we cant really do, they have conceal + execute + FF.... its cool though, i dont mind being way better than them on named and tso trash mobs(where they have either aoe's or higher hp), i always top zonewide second to our wizard because he has better group, but i dont mind losing to wizards cause they arent so smug.....

Lethe5683

03-29-2009, 08:08 PM

<cite>Farore wrote:</cite><blockquote>but i dont mind losing to wizards cause they arent so smug.....</blockquote>Yeah right.

MagicWand

03-30-2009, 12:47 PM

<cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not reply to this thread, it is for testing purposes only to help balance the classes for combat damage. This is only phase one (a solo test), phase two is hate/combat testing in a group scenario, and finally phase three is hate/combat testing in a raid scenario. Least thats what I am trying to accomplish here.Please, honestly, I may have come off like an . But this is for legitimate purposes to help with the upcoming revamp/lu/changes.....look me up on testcopy when it's back up if you prefer to test there. But this is to show on live whats wrong NOW. *)</blockquote>I always find this arguement funny. People that play ranged classes want the same damage output as melee dps classes. What's the point in names have AoEing, Damage shields, etc when people can just play spell casters and rangers that can safely do incredible damage from ranged.Didn't we been through this before when rangers were the kings of DPS (3-4 years ago) compared to other tier 1 DPSers. The end result was that some guilds would employ 5-7 rangers in thier 24 roster. They would blow through raid content with no problems. AoEs?! Who cared about jousting, raiding became trivial and a farm-fest.There has usually been a balance in these online games that melee attacks are usually stronger then range attacks. Simply for the fact that people will abuse the mechanics of a game with little to no risk involved. It is a common knowledge from the Devs that the Tier 1 DPS classes are Assassins, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks. If you notice, 3 out of the 4 classes there are ranged damage dealers. But assassins produce more dps and it should be like that because that class actually has more risk involved when dealing damage. If rangers, wizards and warlocks produced the best dps, who would in their right mind ever play melee classes like assassins, swashies, and brigands? Oh yes people want to produce the most dps possible so maybe some sucker will play a brigand.So at the end of your perfect test come true the raid set up would be a MT, loads of Rangers, and healers for 1-2 rangers per group because they will need to be healed from the damage they take. You may say "Hey how is a ranger going to take damage from ranged?" Easy, they damage themselves with the most cheap item in the game... the good old Bloodthristy Choker.

Dirty Jack Rackham

03-31-2009, 02:26 PM

<cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not reply to this thread, it is for testing purposes only to help balance the classes for combat damage. This is only phase one (a solo test), phase two is hate/combat testing in a group scenario, and finally phase three is hate/combat testing in a raid scenario. Least thats what I am trying to accomplish here.Please, honestly, I may have come off like an . But this is for legitimate purposes to help with the upcoming revamp/lu/changes.....look me up on testcopy when it's back up if you prefer to test there. But this is to show on live whats wrong NOW. *)</blockquote>I always find this arguement funny. People that play ranged classes want the same damage output as melee dps classes. What's the point in names have AoEing, Damage shields, etc when people can just play spell casters and rangers that can safely do incredible damage from ranged.Didn't we been through this before when rangers were the kings of DPS (3-4 years ago) compared to other tier 1 DPSers. The end result was that some guilds would employ 5-7 rangers in thier 24 roster. They would blow through raid content with no problems. AoEs?! Who cared about jousting, raiding became trivial and a farm-fest.There has usually been a balance in these online games that melee attacks are usually stronger then range attacks. Simply for the fact that people will abuse the mechanics of a game with little to no risk involved. It is a common knowledge from the Devs that the Tier 1 DPS classes are Assassins, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks. If you notice, 3 out of the 4 classes there are ranged damage dealers. But assassins produce more dps and it should be like that because that class actually has more risk involved when dealing damage. If rangers, wizards and warlocks produced the best dps, who would in their right mind ever play melee classes like assassins, swashies, and brigands? Oh yes people want to produce the most dps possible so maybe some sucker will play a brigand.So at the end of your perfect test come true the raid set up would be a MT, loads of Rangers, and healers for 1-2 rangers per group because they will need to be healed from the damage they take. You may say "Hey how is a ranger going to take damage from ranged?" Easy, they damage themselves with the most cheap item in the game... the good old Bloodthristy Choker.</blockquote>It is also common knowledge that any ranger worth their salt is going to be fighting from the 5m sweet spot which puts us right up there shoulder to shoulder with you in order to put out our maximum damage. This allows us to autoattack and still use all our combat abilities. So yes, given equal gear, we should be doing equal damage.

Blayde01

03-31-2009, 07:49 PM

I'll trade you high trash parses for high parses on mobs who matter (AKA: any named mob with an AE.)Seriously, I don't get why all the assassin hate. We can do the best raid DPS in the game, on the raid mobs that mean the least. My Bruiser can do 150k DPS on a training dummy, which means he outparses my assassin. But nobody whines because training dummy parses don't MEAN ANYTHING. My assassin can hit 18k+ (I've seen 22k ZW trash in our parse thread on flames) on palace trash, but trash parses don't MEAN ANYTHING... So why whine about assassins being OP? The numbers mean NOTHING. The only parses that matter are the ones where your DPS is actually helping the raid succede. Do assassins top Avatar parses? No. Do assassins top any parse on a hard mob? No. (Equal skill and gear between an Assassin, Ranger, Wizard on a mob with a jousting AE.)So, let me counter your challenge. Because of the design of the assassin class (burst melee DPS) an assassin will probably beat a ranger on training dummies. But until training dummies start dropping Avatar loot, I'll still hold to the belief that the Tier 1 dps classes (minus warlock, cause I don't raid with one) are close enough in balance, and that an Assassin's high trash DPS isn't worth as much to a raid as a Ranger or Wizard's high ranged DPS on hard mobs.And don't get started on the hate transfer thing. I sit at -70% hate in my raid. (Troub and Coercer) If you think 19% hate transfer makes or breaks an assassin, you're dead wrong. If you're pulling agro with less DPS than your assassin, get a new tank, get a new group, steal deagro from your coercer. Don't 20k double attack crit on the incoming unless your tank can handle it, etc.My 2cp. Oh, btw, Safana parses like a beast. A ranger. If you think rangers suck at DPS, look at her (?) parses. I think the big problem is the lack of amazing rangers, and how easy it is for an assassin to parse high. You're comparing apples to oranges. A mediocre assassin will beat a mediocre ranger, cause assassins are easy to parse with. Stop being mediocre. Duh. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Blayde01

03-31-2009, 07:56 PM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MagicWand wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not reply to this thread, it is for testing purposes only to help balance the classes for combat damage. This is only phase one (a solo test), phase two is hate/combat testing in a group scenario, and finally phase three is hate/combat testing in a raid scenario. Least thats what I am trying to accomplish here.Please, honestly, I may have come off like an . But this is for legitimate purposes to help with the upcoming revamp/lu/changes.....look me up on testcopy when it's back up if you prefer to test there. But this is to show on live whats wrong NOW. *)</blockquote>I always find this arguement funny. People that play ranged classes want the same damage output as melee dps classes. What's the point in names have AoEing, Damage shields, etc when people can just play spell casters and rangers that can safely do incredible damage from ranged.Didn't we been through this before when rangers were the kings of DPS (3-4 years ago) compared to other tier 1 DPSers. The end result was that some guilds would employ 5-7 rangers in thier 24 roster. They would blow through raid content with no problems. AoEs?! Who cared about jousting, raiding became trivial and a farm-fest.There has usually been a balance in these online games that melee attacks are usually stronger then range attacks. Simply for the fact that people will abuse the mechanics of a game with little to no risk involved. It is a common knowledge from the Devs that the Tier 1 DPS classes are Assassins, Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks. If you notice, 3 out of the 4 classes there are ranged damage dealers. But assassins produce more dps and it should be like that because that class actually has more risk involved when dealing damage. If rangers, wizards and warlocks produced the best dps, who would in their right mind ever play melee classes like assassins, swashies, and brigands? Oh yes people want to produce the most dps possible so maybe some sucker will play a brigand.So at the end of your perfect test come true the raid set up would be a MT, loads of Rangers, and healers for 1-2 rangers per group because they will need to be healed from the damage they take. You may say "Hey how is a ranger going to take damage from ranged?" Easy, they damage themselves with the most cheap item in the game... the good old Bloodthristy Choker.</blockquote>It is also common knowledge that any ranger worth their salt is going to be fighting from the 5m sweet spot which puts us right up there shoulder to shoulder with you in order to put out our maximum damage. This allows us to autoattack and still use all our combat abilities. So yes, given equal gear, we should be doing equal damage. </blockquote>If you can do the same damage as us at melee range, why can't we do the same damage as you at range? If you can do 4x the ranged damage, and 3/4ths the melee damage, you have the upper hand on mobs where you can't stay in melee.

Dirty Jack Rackham

04-01-2009, 08:47 AM

<cite>Blayde01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you can do the same damage as us at melee range, why can't we do the same damage as you at range? If you can do 4x the ranged damage, and 3/4ths the melee damage, you have the upper hand on mobs where you can't stay in melee.</blockquote>I don't think you actually understand the amount of work a decent ranger actually puts in to doing their job. In order to actually do our jobs well, we HAVE to get up close and personal to the mob. We HAVE to use ALL our combat abilities. This includes our melee as well as ranged abilities in between our autoattack. In order to use our melee combat abilities we HAVE to work in that 5m sweet spot. Any ranger hanging back is slacking and will not put out any where near their full potential. Im my experience, there is more content that requires people to get up close and personal to the mob than stand in the next room. Where everyone has to pile right up on top of the mob and melee. You have the upper hand on those mobs friend. Unless a Ranger has their fabled epic at minimum, said Ranger will be putting out less damage than the bard standing next to them.

Lethe5683

04-01-2009, 09:59 AM

Blayde01

04-01-2009, 04:27 PM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Blayde01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you can do the same damage as us at melee range, why can't we do the same damage as you at range? If you can do 4x the ranged damage, and 3/4ths the melee damage, you have the upper hand on mobs where you can't stay in melee.</blockquote>I don't think you actually understand the amount of work a decent ranger actually puts in to doing their job. In order to actually do our jobs well, we HAVE to get up close and personal to the mob. We HAVE to use ALL our combat abilities. This includes our melee as well as ranged abilities in between our autoattack. In order to use our melee combat abilities we HAVE to work in that 5m sweet spot. Any ranger hanging back is slacking and will not put out any where near their full potential. Im my experience, there is more content that requires people to get up close and personal to the mob than stand in the next room. Where everyone has to pile right up on top of the mob and melee. You have the upper hand on those mobs friend. Unless a Ranger has their fabled epic at minimum, said Ranger will be putting out less damage than the bard standing next to them.</blockquote>I'm talking 100% raid here, I don't think you are, since you mentioned fabled epic as a minimum. In raids, trash mobs are not content. They're filler. They could take them all out for all anyone cares. On a jousting fight, an equally geared ranger will outparse an equally geared assassin. 90% of TSO raid bosses have an AE you need to joust. Most REAL content. Yes, I understand you have to sit at 5m to do max damage, and yes, I know an assassin has an easier time finding their sweet spot, but when an assassin and a ranger are both at 20-30m range, guess who does more damage? You lose less damage from jousting than an assassin does, is all I'm saying. And if you're not on content where you need to joust, you won't see the advantage rangers have on those fights.Edit: and yes, Assassins have the upper hand on melee mobs. Of course we do. Because if rangers had the upper hand on melee mobs, we wouldn't have much of a purpose in a raid guild.

Kabahl

04-08-2009, 06:29 AM

<cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK who here has the kahunies to take up this challenge?</blockquote>Oh dear God people . . . sometimes it sucks being a teacher . . . /sighIf you don't know how to spell a word, DON'T USE IT! Seriously . . . As soon as I saw that I stopped reading. The word I BELIEVE you're looking for (based on the context of your use of the word "kahunies" and what it would SORT OF sound like) is CAJONES . . . Spanish for testes . . . or, in this case, "balls." Oh, and if you REALLY want to know if a word is really a word . . . do a Google search . . . but please, for your own sake, do NOT look up "kahunies" in google . . . just don't . . . but if you do, don't click on any links.

Dirty Jack Rackham

04-08-2009, 09:15 AM

<cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><snipped>Oh, and if you REALLY want to know if a word is really a word . . . do a Google search . . . but please, for your own sake, do NOT look up "kahunies" in google . . . just don't . . . but if you do, don't click on any links.</blockquote>You do realize that the quickest way to get someone to do something is to tell them not to do it right? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />Film at 11.

Zin`Car

04-15-2009, 02:53 PM

this simply sounds like YET ANOTHER ranged player whining about assassin dps. I say ranged because i lump rangers and all casters into one single group. "Oh but we use the sweet spot for our best dps so we're 'shoulder to shoulder' with you..." no you don't and no you're not. you're 5m back stareing at our butts and making stupid posts like this on the forums.You testing methods are skewed. your situational comparisons are non-existant. your foot's in your mouth and your brain is on drugs.Here's the easiest way to fix parse envy:leave your EGO at the login screen.

Norrsken

04-18-2009, 05:31 AM

Brimestar

04-18-2009, 01:06 PM

kahunies = the smaller version...aka what the rangers have.....

StaticLex

04-21-2009, 04:59 AM

<cite>Charn@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stealthmode@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK who here has the kahunies to take up this challenge?</blockquote>Oh dear God people . . . sometimes it sucks being a teacher . . . /sighIf you don't know how to spell a word, DON'T USE IT! Seriously . . . As soon as I saw that I stopped reading. The word I BELIEVE you're looking for (based on the context of your use of the word "kahunies" and what it would SORT OF sound like) is CAJONES . . . Spanish for testes . . . or, in this case, "balls." Oh, and if you REALLY want to know if a word is really a word . . . do a Google search . . . but please, for your own sake, do NOT look up "kahunies" in google . . . just don't . . . but if you do, don't click on any links.</blockquote>lol