True Tankage!!!

[Wildfury77]

<p>Been away for 6 months - so have been playing catch up over last week - nearly got T1 armor set done.</p><p>I was bit disheartened to hear that monks struggle with TSO MTing ---> Which as a fighter is our primary role!</p><p>Until today --> Just did 3 shard zones with a T2 geared monk with mythical. SO much faster than a plodding platetank. He basically chain pulled without losing power. Thats the way it should be! In ROK thats why i preferred Brawlers and Zerkers as MTs for instances --> Different mindset, fast aggressive continuous pulls.</p><p>And with tanking changes on test vastly improving our abilities the future looks good!!</p><p>P.S. I have no problems with monks pretending to be a scout -> Its no different to a Rogue using stamina line and pretending to be a tank! (which i do on my swashie). Secondary roles are fine.</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Been away for 6 months - so have been playing catch up over last week - nearly got T1 armor set done.</p><p>I was bit disheartened to hear that monks struggle with TSO MTing ---> Which as a fighter is our primary role!</p><p>Until today --> Just did 3 shard zones with a T2 geared monk with mythical. SO much faster than a plodding platetank. He basically chain pulled without losing power. Thats the way it should be! In ROK thats why i preferred Brawlers and Zerkers as MTs for instances --> Different mindset, fast aggressive continuous pulls.</p><p>And with tanking changes on test vastly improving our abilities the future looks good!!</p><p>P.S. I have no problems with monks pretending to be a scout -> Its no different to a Rogue using stamina line and pretending to be a tank! (which i do on my swashie). Secondary roles are fine.</p></blockquote><p>The mythical has a nice mitigation buff. Otherwise the "struggling" in heroic instances is a struggling with the group, not so much with the mobs. But it was always like this. A mad warlock is a mad warlock.</p>

[Turb]

<p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And with tanking changes on test vastly improving our abilities the future looks good!!</p></blockquote><p>Except these have no been cancelled, so no AE autoattack for us /sigh.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p><cite>Ratius@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And with tanking changes on test vastly improving our abilities the future looks good!!</p></blockquote><p>Except these have no been cancelled, so no AE autoattack for us /sigh.</p></blockquote><p>Too early to know that, really.  They are still going forward with some of the changes that were on test.  We need to wait and see what it looks like after they revert out the aggro/stance revamp stuff.</p><p>To the OP - yep, I agree.  I tank in instances all the time, up to and including Ferzhul/Varsoon.  It works very well -- brawlers are excellent, fast moving and effective instance tanks.  Raids are a different matter - even with avoidance FAR into the diminishing returns curve, orange raid mobs still have their way with us pretty routinely.  The ring events in outer stronghold are literally impossible with our current AOE aggro tools as far as I can tell.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Morrolan V wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ratius@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Grondak@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And with tanking changes on test vastly improving our abilities the future looks good!!</p></blockquote><p>Except these have no been cancelled, so no AE autoattack for us /sigh.</p></blockquote><p>Too early to know that, really.  They are still going forward with some of the changes that were on test.  We need to wait and see what it looks like after they revert out the aggro/stance revamp stuff.</p><p>To the OP - yep, I agree.  I tank in instances all the time, up to and including Ferzhul/Varsoon.  It works very well -- brawlers are excellent, fast moving and effective instance tanks.  Raids are a different matter - even with avoidance FAR into the diminishing returns curve, orange raid mobs still have their way with us pretty routinely.  The ring events in outer stronghold are literally impossible with our current AOE aggro tools as far as I can tell.</p></blockquote><p>Ive tanked Outer Stronghole multiple times, it isn't impossible, it is just unfun having to switch targets a whole fight.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>Good to know it's possible.  I have tried a couple of times and it was not successful (and I can hold aggro in evey other instance in the game).</p><p>I will try it again soon.</p>

[xKHONSx]

<p>An Enchanter makes the ring events easy.  Enchanter mezzes one group and you pick up the other group.  There have been times when their mez was resisted by an entire encounter and I had to pick both of them up.  I just wouldn't want to do that for every spawn in the event so I bring one of my pet Enchanters whenever I go there.</p>

[Couching]

<p>With good group setup, or with incompetent aoe dpers, monk can tank OS. I have done it a lot.</p><p>However, the efficiency is by far worse than sk, pal and zerker.</p><p>If tank is sk, pal or zerker, they can finish those zones 5-10 minutes faster due to their higher aoe dps/aggro so aoe dpsers can hit 30k+ dps without worrying getting aggro.</p><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p><p>Dirge, troub, illy or coercer, shaman, fury and monk.</p><p>With this group setup, we finished ferzhul in 40 minutes and OS in 50 minutes.</p><p>We should finish OS within 45 minute if we didn't wipe to final named on first pull. Group dps was too good on final named and got 2 adds within 10 sec. We got pwnt by double aoe on first pull. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With good group setup, or with incompetent aoe dpers, monk can tank OS. I have done it a lot.</p><p>However, the efficiency is by far worse than sk, pal and zerker.</p><p>If tank is sk, pal or zerker, they can finish those zones 5-10 minutes faster due to their higher aoe dps/aggro so aoe dpsers can hit 30k+ dps without worrying getting aggro.</p><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p><p>Dirge, troub, illy or coercer, shaman, fury and monk.</p><p>With this group setup, we finished ferzhul in 40 minutes and OS in 50 minutes.</p><p>We should finish OS within 45 minute if we didn't wipe to final named on first pull. Group dps was too good on final named and got 2 adds within 10 sec. We got pwnt by double aoe on first pull. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I disagree, I'd rather have a swashy over a troub a warden single heal me and a brig.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With good group setup, or with incompetent aoe dpers, monk can tank OS. I have done it a lot.</p><p>However, the efficiency is by far worse than sk, pal and zerker.</p><p>If tank is sk, pal or zerker, they can finish those zones 5-10 minutes faster due to their higher aoe dps/aggro so aoe dpsers can hit 30k+ dps without worrying getting aggro.</p><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p><p>Dirge, troub, illy or coercer, shaman, fury and monk.</p><p>With this group setup, we finished ferzhul in 40 minutes and OS in 50 minutes.</p><p>We should finish OS within 45 minute if we didn't wipe to final named on first pull. Group dps was too good on final named and got 2 adds within 10 sec. We got pwnt by double aoe on first pull. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I disagree, I'd rather have a swashy over a troub a warden single heal me and a brig.</p></blockquote><p>If you can stay alive in offensive and hybrid/dps suit with single healer, sure.</p><p>Otherwise, I prefer getting a 2nd healer and be in offensive and hybrid/dps suit for better aggro and dps.</p><p>Not to say, fury aoe dps is really nice in this exanpsion. Our fury did 5.2k zw dps in ferzhul without shoulder. She can break 6k zw i believe after getting soulder and 6 set bonus.</p><p>For brig, it's good for named but sucks in aoe fight.</p><p>Getting troub is essential since it buffs everyone in the group. For my group setup, the whole benefit from troub is better than swashy.</p><p>PS: It's doable with 1 healer in OS or ferzhul. Though, I dislike to be there with 1 healer. Any mistake may cause group wipe and waste time. I prefer getting a high dps fury as back up healer if necessary.</p>

[xKHONSx]

<p>I quit raiding a couple of expansions ago so I don't have all of the gear you guys have so right now I prefer two healers in the hardest two or three zones.  A very common setup for me this expansion is Monk, Templar, Warden, Swash, Dirge and Chanter.  Give me that setup and I can guarantee we will clear any zone.  For easier zones I'll ditch a healer for another dps.  Basically if it is a group of friends the only zones I bring two healers to are PoF, Stronghold and usually Lower Corridors.  Some of them have decent gear from raiding and I have most of the best instance gear out there as well as a few pieces of raid gear people have sold in chat channels.  Sooner or later we will be going with only one of my pet Wardens solo healing me thru OS and PoF as well.</p><p>I know most Brawlers love a good Shaman, and I do too, it's just that the Templar/Warden combo has been retardedly good to me this expansion and the healers I'm friends with are either Templars or Wardens.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With good group setup, or with incompetent aoe dpers, monk can tank OS. I have done it a lot.</p><p>However, the efficiency is by far worse than sk, pal and zerker.</p><p>If tank is sk, pal or zerker, they can finish those zones 5-10 minutes faster due to their higher aoe dps/aggro so aoe dpsers can hit 30k+ dps without worrying getting aggro.</p><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p><p>Dirge, troub, illy or coercer, shaman, fury and monk.</p><p>With this group setup, we finished ferzhul in 40 minutes and OS in 50 minutes.</p><p>We should finish OS within 45 minute if we didn't wipe to final named on first pull. Group dps was too good on final named and got 2 adds within 10 sec. We got pwnt by double aoe on first pull. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I disagree, I'd rather have a swashy over a troub a warden single heal me and a brig.</p></blockquote><p>If you can stay alive in offensive and hybrid/dps suit with single healer, sure.</p><p>Otherwise, I prefer getting a 2nd healer and be in offensive and hybrid/dps suit for better aggro and dps.</p><p>Not to say, fury aoe dps is really nice in this exanpsion. Our fury did 5.2k zw dps in ferzhul without shoulder. She can break 6k zw i believe after getting soulder and 6 set bonus.</p><p>For brig, it's good for named but sucks in aoe fight.</p><p>Getting troub is essential since it buffs everyone in the group. For my group setup, the whole benefit from troub is better than swashy.</p><p>PS: It's doable with 1 healer in OS or ferzhul. Though, I dislike to be there with 1 healer. Any mistake may cause group wipe and waste time. I prefer getting a high dps fury as back up healer if necessary.</p></blockquote><p>I am sorry, but you are completely wrong if you think taking a troub over a swashy is a good idea for Stronghold.</p>

[Couching]

<p>Troub is much better than swashy in OS in <strong>my group setup</strong>.</p><p>There are always <strong>two groups</strong> of adds in each wave and we have only <strong>1 encounter taunt every 17.9 sec</strong> if you have 8 points on agi line.</p><p>Good fury can hit over 15k+ and illy for over 20k+ in aoe fights if they don't need to worry about aggro.</p><p>Swashy aoe attack hits up to 4 adds. If you think it is good for aggro, you are so wrong with two different encounters in every wave of ring events.</p><p>troub dps < swashy but overall group dps is better with troub.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Troub is much better than swashy in OS in <strong>my group setup</strong>.</p><p>There are always <strong>two groups</strong> of adds in each wave and we have only <strong>1 encounter taunt every 17.9 sec</strong> if you have 8 points on agi line.</p><p>Good fury can hit over 15k+ and illy for over 20k+ in aoe fights if they don't need to worry about aggro.</p><p>Swashy aoe attack hits up to 4 adds. If you think it is good for aggro, you are so wrong with two different encounters in every wave of ring events.</p><p>troub dps < swashy but overall group dps is better with troub.</p></blockquote><p>I am pretty confident my group does 15k more then yours ZW</p>

[Couching]

<p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p></blockquote><p>You are making a false claim here.  Instead you should have said "The setup I prefer is ..."</p>

[bluefish]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p></blockquote><p>no offense but with that kind of dps you won't need two healers because the mobs will be going down very quickly  .. and if you do need two healers with that dps then quite frankly you are doing something VERY wrong .. this is just my opinion so feel free to rebut</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PS: The best group setup for monk to tank OS and ferzhul would be:</p></blockquote><p>You are making a false claim here.  Instead you should have said "The setup I prefer is ..."</p></blockquote><p>Yes and No.</p><p>Most monks still need two healers for OS and Palace. With two healers, it is best group setup.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Akao@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p></blockquote><p>no offense but with that kind of dps you won't need two healers because the mobs will be going down very quickly  .. and if you do need two healers with that dps then quite frankly you are doing something VERY wrong .. this is just my opinion so feel free to rebut</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's doable with one healer. And any mistake may cause group wipe.</p><p>I prefer in a group with better fault tolerant.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Akao@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p></blockquote><p>no offense but with that kind of dps you won't need two healers because the mobs will be going down very quickly  .. and if you do need two healers with that dps then quite frankly you are doing something VERY wrong .. this is just my opinion so feel free to rebut</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's doable with one healer. And any mistake may cause group wipe.</p><p>I prefer in a group with better fault tolerant.</p></blockquote><p>What would you consider a mistake?  Pull two groups?  Grats hit tsunami etc.  Fact is you are talking about these great dps groups and if the healer is on par with everything else you don't need 2 of them.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Akao@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p></blockquote><p>no offense but with that kind of dps you won't need two healers because the mobs will be going down very quickly  .. and if you do need two healers with that dps then quite frankly you are doing something VERY wrong .. this is just my opinion so feel free to rebut</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's doable with one healer. And any mistake may cause group wipe.</p><p>I prefer in a group with better fault tolerant.</p></blockquote><p>What would you consider a mistake?  Pull two groups?  Grats hit tsunami etc.  Fact is you are talking about these great dps groups and if the healer is on par with everything else you don't need 2 of them.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. For example, curse from varsoon. Recovery is very hard if you have only 1 healer.</p><p>Or for example, on final named in OS, add pops with big aoe and it can one shot anyone except tank in the group.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Akao@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, so you are telling me swashy dps is 15k more than troub?</p><p>Not to say how much troub can buff up group dps. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Swashy+brig prolly 30k extra dps, your troub and fury arent touching that sorry, thx for coming out.</p></blockquote><p>/shrug, I already stated that I am not intereted to get only 1 healer in ferzhul or OS.</p></blockquote><p>no offense but with that kind of dps you won't need two healers because the mobs will be going down very quickly  .. and if you do need two healers with that dps then quite frankly you are doing something VERY wrong .. this is just my opinion so feel free to rebut</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it's doable with one healer. And any mistake may cause group wipe.</p><p>I prefer in a group with better fault tolerant.</p></blockquote><p>What would you consider a mistake?  Pull two groups?  Grats hit tsunami etc.  Fact is you are talking about these great dps groups and if the healer is on par with everything else you don't need 2 of them.</p></blockquote><p>Not really. For example, curse from varsoon. Recovery is very hard if you have only 1 healer.</p><p>Or for example, on final named in OS, add pops with big aoe and it can one shot anyone except tank in the group.</p></blockquote><p>Now you are just being rediculous.  You are way way way less likely to even see the curse from Varsoon with my group set up compared to yours, and a good warden can heal through the curse solo anyways.</p>

[Couching]

<p>Why is it ridiculous? Bad things do happen. Ya, saying is always easy.</p><p>I have grouped with a healer who insisted he can solo heal OS. For safty, I got a 2nd healer. </p><p>He got owned by aoe from trash twice and aoe from final named once. I was glad we didn't wipe with 2nd healer.</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya, saying is always easy.</p><p>I have grouped with a healer who insisted he can solo heal OS. For safty, I got a 2nd healer. </p><p>He got owned by aoe from trash twice and aoe from final named once. I was glad we didn't wipe with 2nd healer.</p></blockquote><p>But you said you wiped the other day with 2 healers so you aren't really saying much.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya, saying is always easy.</p><p>I have grouped with a healer who insisted he can solo heal OS. For safty, I got a 2nd healer. </p><p>He got owned by aoe from trash twice and aoe from final named once. I was glad we didn't wipe with 2nd healer.</p></blockquote><p>But you said you wiped the other day with 2 healers so you aren't really saying much.</p></blockquote><p>Why not?</p><p>I never said there won't be wipe with 2 healers. I said the chance is much less. /shrug</p>

[BChizzle]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya, saying is always easy.</p><p>I have grouped with a healer who insisted he can solo heal OS. For safty, I got a 2nd healer. </p><p>He got owned by aoe from trash twice and aoe from final named once. I was glad we didn't wipe with 2nd healer.</p></blockquote><p>But you said you wiped the other day with 2 healers so you aren't really saying much.</p></blockquote><p>Why not?</p><p>I never said there won't be wipe with 2 healers. I said the chance is much less. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Why not 3 healers then?  You'd have even less chance of dying...</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ya, saying is always easy.</p><p>I have grouped with a healer who insisted he can solo heal OS. For safty, I got a 2nd healer. </p><p>He got owned by aoe from trash twice and aoe from final named once. I was glad we didn't wipe with 2nd healer.</p></blockquote><p>But you said you wiped the other day with 2 healers so you aren't really saying much.</p></blockquote><p>Why not?</p><p>I never said there won't be wipe with 2 healers. I said the chance is much less. /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Why not 3 healers then?  You'd have even less chance of dying...</p></blockquote><p>Wow, you are so smart.</p>

[Turb]

<p>DINGALING!   School bell!   Back to class!</p>