Consumables and adornments

[Deson]

<p>With word that transmuting and adornments are being examined for the expansion, I want to start discussion on possibility of cheap adornments being used for special ammo(effectively replacing the rare ammo lost long ago). While only the devs can know the technical and philosophical limitations of such (and the last time I asked it was made pretty clear there were no plans to ever do such), pro's and cons can at least be discussed.</p><p>To date I still don't think there is a way to switch out the active ammo in a quiver but if there is a sufficient reason, it might be added as a mechanic.  I like the idea of special ammo for special jobs and since EoF various special ammo's have shown up showing that at least that part can be done.</p><p>The two ammo producing classes, weaponsmiths and woodworkers, could use a high-end advanced product that allows for a larger profit margin than the razor thin current consumables. Special relatively cheap adornments could add a variety of effects to ammo effects without need to add recipes for every possible combination. With the curent price scale of transmuting raws, it could actually improve sales of lower end raws as people who can't afford to blow through max level adornments use the lower end ones for the performance boosts provided. The effects added to game show that such ammo can have a  wide variety from enhanced crit damage, an arrow flurry, aggro management tools and other effects like low duration stuns. With the much larger arrow stack sizes and lower arrow consumption since EoF, the cost is still much lower and the effects much longer lasting than they would have been back then.</p><p>Outside of dev only questions like technical limitations, the only con I can see is the balance issue of high end encounters needing to be balanced against their use all the time but given all the other effects that have to be balanced against now it shouldn't be nearly as bad as it was.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Why the arrows and not the bow? An adornment would be better suited to the weapon, rather than the ammunition.</p><p>Creating rare ammunition with special effects rather than just simply improved stats would be interesting. I'm not sure how you would "switch" which ammo you use during combat though. You just manually shift ammo in your quiver/sack?</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Why the arrows and not the bow? An adornment would be better suited to the weapon, rather than the ammunition.</p><p>Creating rare ammunition with special effects rather than just simply improved stats would be interesting. I'm not sure how you would "switch" which ammo you use during combat though. You just manually shift ammo in your quiver/sack?</p></blockquote><p>The ranged item is already taken care of under the current system and doesn't need its own advocacy.Ranged weapons also have more permanent effects for them that people would be lothe to replace even if there were some form of adornment return system. As well, the ammo being expendable means there will be a constant recurring cost to using them and as long as the devs never introduce endless quiver, the ammo goes away.  I've always looked at the ammo as a potential tool as opposed to just equipment. It helps to think of arrows as not just a ranger thing but ranged combat in general and realize it is undervalued as a mechanic. Why wouldnt' a Guard carry a few snaring arrows when out solo to sneak in a few shots before mobs can get close?The duration doesn't have to be as long as poisions, potions or CA's but those extra moments of a snare or whatever other effects could make ranged combat a more strategic choice instead of a few gimmick fights here and there.</p><p>I check every now and again but if you're using a quiver/sack, I've found no way to switch which ammo you'd use. Every now and again I /feedback and post for this feature to be added but really there's little need for it. I think the last time I posted for it was when I saw the ammo from Emerald Halls. I felt it would nice to have the high value ammo in the quiver but be able to select the cheap stuff for trash so it could be conserved.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I like the idea, it has merit.</p><p>If actually paying for a specific effect to be added to ammo, I would expect that effect to have a 100% hit rate (unless made by gnomes). This means for crowd control effect there may need to be some kind of immunity added to them.</p><p>Effects I would like to see:</p><p>snare (50% for 8 seconds, 24 second immunity)knockbackAE fireball (~550 at level at, max of 8 targets)additional hate gain (15% for 30 seconds)hate loss (15% for 30 seconds)flurry (additional attacks would need to do much less damage if on a 100% hit rate)an effect where the arrow will hit a second target if it is in line with the first (lower damage, but higher than flurry)added crit ratecrit bonus</p><p>Thats a small list of what could be added to ammo, without getting too crazy with it.</p>

[Nebbeny]

hmm, I think a way to make sure this worked on the mob you wanted it to, and not just all the time on trash etc. and be wasted, would be to have them as a usable item, not the same thing as ammo. Just add requirements to be in ranged (or quiver/pouch) and have the ranged weapon equiped. Then people could drag the "ammo" to the hotbar, and click on them to use them. This would be like a ranger selecting a specific arrow for a specific job, not just putting his hand in the quiver and selecting a random arrow, so it's not exactly a wildly silly concept. I like the idea, it adds more flexibility to the bow, i do however, think that there should be a timer simply for balances sake, for example, my AE spell on the warden and the AE CA are on a linked timer, but they have different recast times, that sort of thing could be used for the ammo so they have their own recast time but you can't just use all the different effects in one go (snare it add crit rate add crit bonus, then flurry and shoot through as an example of a combo that would probably yield alot of damage).

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Nebbeny wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>hmm, I think a way to make sure this worked on the mob you wanted it to, and not just all the time on trash etc. and be wasted, would be to have them as a usable item, not the same thing as ammo. Just add requirements to be in ranged (or quiver/pouch) and have the ranged weapon equiped. Then people could drag the "ammo" to the hotbar, and click on them to use them. This would be like a ranger selecting a specific arrow for a specific job, not just putting his hand in the quiver and selecting a random arrow, so it's not exactly a wildly silly concept. I like the idea, it adds more flexibility to the bow, i do however, think that there should be a timer simply for balances sake, for example, my AE spell on the warden and the AE CA are on a linked timer, but they have different recast times, that sort of thing could be used for the ammo so they have their own recast time but you can't just use all the different effects in one go (snare it add crit rate add crit bonus, then flurry and shoot through as an example of a combo that would probably yield alot of damage).</blockquote><p>Or just make it so that ranged auto attack will fire the amunition in the first slot in a quvier/pouch first, and move on to the second slot if the first is empty, then the thirf, fourth, and so on.</p><p>This gives players the ability to set their ranged auto attack to fire off specific arrows, and to then start of a different type when they have all run out of the first. If a player wants to switch to a different arrow for a specific purpose, they simply drag that arrow to the first slot, so their next ranged auto attack will use that arrow.</p>

[Donilla]

<p>As I understand it, arrows are already consumed from the first slot in your quiver, just as the quiver is refilled in the same way if you use the recover arrow spell to make trash arrows. Even with endless quiver in EQ1, you have to manually move the arrow into the ammo slot to make changes. So I just switch around the arrows in my quiver: trash arrows for trash mobs, the better arrows in raids or for heroics. Might be fun to have arrows on the hotbar, to shoot selectively as opposed to autoattack.</p>

[Nebbeny]

The reason i suggest having these work different than normal arrows, and yes, i know thats how they work, is because these aren't exactly going to be cheap, and having to keep swapping them around when you want to use them is awkward and time consuming, something you dont really want to deal with in the middle of combat. Sure with your normal ammunition you just want to fire away what you have in the quiver, but this stuff isn't like that. If for example, your snare with immunity ammo was made, and cost 2g per arrow. You fire off 1, and because you were too slow, you fired off a second one but oops! the mob is immune to your snare dummy and you just wasted 2g and probably did less damage than a different arrow would of done.

[Oh]

<p>I'm in favor of this sort of a plat sink/redistribution simply because I know the min/maxers will drop loads and loads of plat into this. The only real danger is if encounters are truely balanced around the fact that they will have these components and then it becomes an undue burdon to rangers specifically and others indirectly. Yes I can see raid content being balanced around having these things, dev's have done it in the past and well i can see them doing it again.</p>