PvP Gear Needs Attention

[Kram337]

<p>I believe pvp gear needs some attention. The stats are mostly fine but the set bonuses are really weak for quite a few classes. The first set bonus for scouts gives 1% more procs. That is horribly weak compared to the casters first bonus which grants a 25% (is it 25%?) chance to proc a 1300 point ward on incoming damage.</p><p>Also the pvp gear set bonuses aren't at all, or even close to the t3 gear. For example the 3 piece bonus for swash/brig grants a 2 times a min 1500 dd 1000 heal proc. Yikes!!! that's about 10x better than the set bonuses for pvp gear. Pvp gear takes soooo long to get. So many more hours than some of this other stuff.</p><p>Anyway, it'd be nice to see a little bit of attention on the topic.</p><p>The last thing to mention;</p><p>When are they gonna add a pvp merchant in tso with weapons and jewelry? This RoK stuff is pretty outdated now.</p>

[Desna]

<p>Yes, because the PvP set needs to completely shred anything that comes out of raids.</p><p>For jewelry: Go raid.</p>

[Wed]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, because the PvP set needs to completely shred anything that comes out of raids.</p><p>For jewelry: Go raid.</p></blockquote><p>The OP never said that PvP gear should shread raid gear, L2R.</p><p>I agree with the title, PVP gear does need some atttention.</p>

[Chaosretu]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, because the PvP set needs to completely shred anything that comes out of raids.</p><p>For jewelry: Go raid.</p></blockquote><p>good point. We do need something to shred raid gear....because its a pvp server.</p>

[Zexybeast]

<p>PvP gear should be superior to Raid gear... for PvP. Much the way the Banshee Hoop or the Shifting Band are mediocre in blue content, but are considered necessities for PvP. Let raid gear be specifically designed with blue content in mind and nothing else (i.e. nerf it for PvP) and PvP gear designed with fighting other players in mind.</p>

[mo0rbid]

<p>Now I know this isn't particularly relevant but in world of warcraft the difference between raid and pvp gear made the game less fun since you couldn't pvp with your raiding gear after the first expansion, just throwing it out there as a warning of whatever, crit reduction on pvp gear and none on pve gear isn't a good move : (</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>No pvp gear should not b better that raid gear. </p><p>To aquire raid gear you need to beat the encounters. </p><p>..Sure make it better than raid gear IF...</p><p>You can zone in and kill x 4 mobs with a X16 ..</p><p>Hit the raid mob once and tun away and hope another guild kills it for you ... </p><p>Revive next to the spawn area for the mobs and just keep zerging it till it dies. </p><p>mez charm and stun lock the Epics so you can just pile up dots on them and wait for them to die. </p><p>One shot the Epic encouter. .. </p><p>Get an exile guild to zone in and help kill the epic.. </p><p>Feign death the epic in the middle of other mobs and let them kill it.. </p><p>PvP has no where near the challenge of a raid .. and the gear should in no way be superior to gear aquired through </p><p>besting an encounter with rigid rules ... </p><p>Forming a x4 and killing solos will result in aquiring PvP gear faster than 1 on 1 encounters . or group on group . </p><p>following me ... just because you had to form a x and kill solo's for a month doesnt make it dificult , just time consuming . </p><p>And great gear shouldnt be handed out because you waited in line.. .</p>

[Faenril]

So ... poor writs implementation should be the justification for sub par pvp gear ? I agree with Zexy pvp gear should be tuned to give you an edge in pvp, and raid gear in pve. Jitter your argument is a two sided blade: it is harder to beat a good player or a good group N vs N than some raid encounters I can think of.

[Tharcyl]

<p>/agree with Zexy & Faenril</p>

[Enoe]

<p><span >/agree with Zexy & Faenril</span></p>

[Kram337]

<p><cite>Galvanize@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now I know this isn't particularly relevant but in world of warcraft the difference between raid and pvp gear made the game less fun since you couldn't pvp with your raiding gear after the first expansion, just throwing it out there as a warning of whatever, crit reduction on pvp gear and none on pve gear isn't a good move : (</p></blockquote><p>Galvanize makes an incredibly important point. I never played WoW, but AoC is exactly the same. Pvp gear has absolutely no effect in pve. Which defeats half the purpose of even getting it. One of hte things i love most about eq2 is that the pvp and pve are tied closely together.</p><p>Most abilities work in both settings and so does gear. It makes pvp that much better. And why shouldn't it be this way? Theres no reason to not reward someone for their efforts in both areas. You raiders go on as if raiding is some impossible feat and that pvp is stupid and easy. But try pvp'ing without raid gear and tell me how easy it really is.</p><p>Try even getting 1 piece of pvp gear on a non OP class and tell me that PVP is easier and faster to gear up than raiding.</p><p>Anyway, yea I'd like to see jewelery and weapons vendor added.</p>

[sokil]

<p>one more thought..</p><p>If exiles get pvp gear, I think many would go exile for the FFA pvp. Perhaps that would not be such a bad thing. I know I would go exile as there would not be any major detriment to doing so.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Kram337 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Galvanize@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now I know this isn't particularly relevant but in world of warcraft the difference between raid and pvp gear made the game less fun since you couldn't pvp with your raiding gear after the first expansion, just throwing it out there as a warning of whatever, crit reduction on pvp gear and none on pve gear isn't a good move : (</p></blockquote><p>Galvanize makes an incredibly important point. I never played WoW, but AoC is exactly the same. Pvp gear has absolutely no effect in pve. Which defeats half the purpose of even getting it. One of hte things i love most about eq2 is that the pvp and pve are tied closely together.</p><p>Most abilities work in both settings and so does gear. It makes pvp that much better. And why shouldn't it be this way?</p></blockquote><p>Because some pve/pvp gear is imbalanced/overpowered when not used in the proper context. One example is cursed coif, or a bunch of mythicals. Or for instance when I get my 2 pvp pieces bonus I will have >50% crit mitigation and a 1300 ward proc. That will make a huge difference in TSO raiding, since it's a lot about eating the badass critical AOEs.</p><p>So while I agree it is very nice to be able to use gear in both context, it means that said items have to be very carefully designed, in order to provide mainly a benefit in their intended usage context. Though it procs a little too often, Shifting Band is an example of a properly designed pvp item: huge pvp benefit, and little - if any - pve benefit.</p><p>Unfortunately history shows that often not enough thought is put in the item design process, to make the effects/procs suitable for their intended use.</p>

[Desna]

<p><cite>Kram337 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Galvanize@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now I know this isn't particularly relevant but in world of warcraft the difference between raid and pvp gear made the game less fun since you couldn't pvp with your raiding gear after the first expansion, just throwing it out there as a warning of whatever, crit reduction on pvp gear and none on pve gear isn't a good move : (</p></blockquote><p>Galvanize makes an incredibly important point. I never played WoW, but AoC is exactly the same. Pvp gear has absolutely no effect in pve. Which defeats half the purpose of even getting it. One of hte things i love most about eq2 is that the pvp and pve are tied closely together.</p><p>Most abilities work in both settings and so does gear. It makes pvp that much better. And why shouldn't it be this way? Theres no reason to not reward someone for their efforts in both areas. You raiders go on as if raiding is some impossible feat and that pvp is stupid and easy. But try pvp'ing without raid gear and tell me how easy it really is.</p><p>Try even getting 1 piece of pvp gear on a non OP class and tell me that PVP is easier and faster to gear up than raiding.</p><p>Anyway, yea I'd like to see jewelery and weapons vendor added.</p></blockquote><p>OK...I play a healer, a warden at t8. I got the fear earring from ROK before I left for exile, and let me tell you....it became one of the most powerful pieces I wore, and I didn't spend 1/100th of the time pvping as I do raiding for it. And yeah, it required about 1/10th of the skill too. Especially when you consider most people just attach themselves at the hip to a group and roll people all day for updates. MMMM yeah, that takes a lot of skill there.</p><p>It did help with solo questing a lot, and pvp, but it was something I could swap off for raids. It's not like the crit mit gear, where people can farm soloers or noobs or greenies for updates all day long for more than the benefit of the pieces that drop off mobs. Take someone who does nothing but PvP, never raids, and stick him in front of Xebnok. And I'll guarantee you you'd see a difference in skill vs the people who actually take the time to learn their classes and content as it reflects to PvE (just like some raiders, myself included, suck it up in pvp).</p><p>(as far as my equip, I got that piece of PvP gear mostly solo and small groups, was mostly equipped in instance legendary and fabled with two pieces of low end raid gear (gloves of stormcalling, Vyx Crest locket) and my fabled epic. I didn't get most of my equip til afterward, including my mythical.)</p>

[Wed]

<p>As Onyx kills more and more TSO avatars (which drop some insanely powerful gear) people will start asking for better PvP gear tbh.</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<p>apples and oranges. </p><p>Onyx doesnt use PvP gear to kill the Avatars. </p><p>If you want to kill avatars then go kill them . </p><p>If you dont have the gear to kill them , go get it. </p><p>If you dont want to invest the time and effort to get the gear to kill avatars , then you wont do it. </p><p>If you think that paying 15 dollars a month entitles you to avatar kills , nope. </p><p>PvP gear is on no way dificult to obtain .. gank people for it, outnumber them in lopsided encounters. </p><p>track lock them across a zone. AOE and run away and let other finish them off. </p><p>PvP is not hard, it depens only on what OP class you choose to play , and how many people you can get to outnumber the other side. </p><p>It is i think the most rewarding passtime in the game , for the least skill requirement. </p><p>5 x2 groups can kill one player 8 levels lower 5 times and get a writ update. That involves no skill whatsoever. </p><p>Contrast that with forming 24 people in a raid , and fighting mobs who are scripted to challenge that encouter. </p><p>One person in thet 24 who makes a mistake will kill the rest , the skill and dedication to kill these encounters </p><p>far suprases writ ganking on the KP docks. </p><p>So Onyx having Avatar loot is a result of earning it, plain and simple , and PvP gear should remain what it is , a nice boost for player who want to PvP , and Raid gear should remain what is it , the reward for killing th most challenging aspect of the game. </p><p>And it should alway be superior gear,... always. </p><p>Unless you want to post an argument that ganking solo green players in a x2 should reap the same rewards .</p><p>as killng a God's representitive on Earth. </p>

[Wed]

<p>Jitter, if you want people to read your posts, try to smake them shorter (and therefore more concise), use less 1 line paragraphs, and try to keep spelling and grammar levels to at least a reasonable level. I got to the second line of the above post and stopped. Maybe other people read it all, I don't know, but just some friendly advice to help you get your point across.</p>

[Efrath]

<p>About PVP and PVE gear, PVP does require more time, plain and simple.</p><p>Does it require more or less skills? Depends really on what raid mobs we're talking about really, what class you pvp with and style. Not everyone goes around in full groups ganking solo players after all.</p><p>I think they should lower crit mit on the pvp gear personally.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>This game is just about play time/gear now. It was good in t7 you did not have to waste all your time in instances/raids or to get AAs. You could spend your time on pvp. Now you need to spend more time in pve to be able to pvp good...</p>

[Enoe]

<p>look at it from different perspective. For now pve forearms are easiest to farm. It takes x2 raid and 15 min and u can farm 2 pieces per week from mad crusader. Now to get PvP foreams u need to get 100 tokens - for most of the ppl it will take anything from 2-6 weeks to get them.</p><p>U remember old pvp gear from rok - they are on same status as VP gear. Now every semi competent guild can farm VP every week = 12 set items in like 4-6h of raiding. To get pvp items it still would take muuuuuuuuch longer.</p><p>So only advantage pvp folk has they can pick item they want. But as we going further in expansion more and more pve gear will be easier to obtain by any raider - not the elite one only.</p>

[Desna]

<p>For your ROK comparison, you also have to take into account lockout timers...24 people in the raid, and one run through VP will not guarantee that all 24 will even walk out with any pieces at all, much less a set piece they need or an upgrade to their equip that would be seen as comparable to the pvp gear of that expansion. Plus, as mentioned before, the PvP pieces in ROK seem to be more geared toward actual PvP use than using it as fillers for raid gear, which the new set can be used for.</p><p>Not many guilds have access to this tier's whole set yet--no one on Venekor can kill all the set piece names yet--so yeah, right now it's easier to get your pick of your set with mindless greenie ganking than raiding. Not to mention it's not like the raiders can pick and choose when and what piece of their sets drop for them; those forarms you listed might have crit mit on them but might be a very weak piece for someone's class otherwise. So why should the PvP set be comparable or have any leg up vs the raid sets?</p><p>I second the notion the PvP sets have too much crit mit on them.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>those forarms you listed might have crit mit on them but might be a very weak piece for someone's class otherwise.</p></blockquote><p>That's also relevant for many pvp pieces though. Even if getting tokens was not an issue, I don't think I would use more than 3 items from the TSO pvp set, possibly even 2. Like in ROK actually.</p>

[Enoe]

<p>Problem with raids on venekor is known. I just gave info how it looks on nagy when everyday u see spam of new mythicals from guilds noone heard of 2 months ago.</p><p>Just lately our  guild recruited like 10 ppl from venekor and after 1-2 weeks they all have their myths now - it was not possible on vene for them.</p><p>So i said, taking lockout timers under consideration, u can farm fully  vp once per week and it means 12 set pieces. Trakanon is still out of reach for many guilds but imo its just a matter of time when he will be on farm status as well.</p><p>SoH has a nice gear too especially for pvp. Again u can farm it once per week will take like 1-2 h up to byzola. All mobs there are pretty easy. Last time we killed maestro we did it with not full x3 with 4 healers in raid and again maestro loot is really nice. Byzola is harder and will not be soon on farm status for non hardcore guilds.</p><p>I understand TSO pve set is even nicer. But again its just a matter of time when most of the raiding guilds will have mobs which drops 4 set items ( boots, forearms, gloves, helms) on farm status.</p><p>And u need take one thing more under consideration. If u raid and progress it means u spend 5-6 days on raids. It deosnt leave much time for pvp. If u want pvp a lot then u cant raid this often.</p><p>And again pvp gear are not difficult to obtain this is only time consuming. Raid gear are harder to get but they requires less time to get them (if u work on progress ofc)</p>

[Kram337]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kram337 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Galvanize@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now I know this isn't particularly relevant but in world of warcraft the difference between raid and pvp gear made the game less fun since you couldn't pvp with your raiding gear after the first expansion, just throwing it out there as a warning of whatever, crit reduction on pvp gear and none on pve gear isn't a good move : (</p></blockquote><p>Galvanize makes an incredibly important point. I never played WoW, but AoC is exactly the same. Pvp gear has absolutely no effect in pve. Which defeats half the purpose of even getting it. One of hte things i love most about eq2 is that the pvp and pve are tied closely together.</p><p>Most abilities work in both settings and so does gear. It makes pvp that much better. And why shouldn't it be this way? Theres no reason to not reward someone for their efforts in both areas. You raiders go on as if raiding is some impossible feat and that pvp is stupid and easy. But try pvp'ing without raid gear and tell me how easy it really is.</p><p>Try even getting 1 piece of pvp gear on a non OP class and tell me that PVP is easier and faster to gear up than raiding.</p><p>Anyway, yea I'd like to see jewelery and weapons vendor added.</p></blockquote><p>OK...I play a healer, a warden at t8. I got the fear earring from ROK before I left for exile, and let me tell you....it became one of the most powerful pieces I wore, and I didn't spend 1/100th of the time pvping as I do raiding for it. And yeah, it required about 1/10th of the skill too. Especially when you consider most people just attach themselves at the hip to a group and roll people all day for updates. MMMM yeah, that takes a lot of skill there.</p><p>It did help with solo questing a lot, and pvp, but it was something I could swap off for raids. It's not like the crit mit gear, where people can farm soloers or noobs or greenies for updates all day long for more than the benefit of the pieces that drop off mobs. Take someone who does nothing but PvP, never raids, and stick him in front of Xebnok. And I'll guarantee you you'd see a difference in skill vs the people who actually take the time to learn their classes and content as it reflects to PvE (just like some raiders, myself included, suck it up in pvp).</p><p>(as far as my equip, I got that piece of PvP gear mostly solo and small groups, was mostly equipped in instance legendary and fabled with two pieces of low end raid gear (gloves of stormcalling, Vyx Crest locket) and my fabled epic. I didn't get most of my equip til afterward, including my mythical.)</p></blockquote><p>You folks who think raiding takes more skill than pvp are silly. Both pvp and pve take about the same amount of skill. You press buttons, and depending on your class you do some other things as well. You also say "Its way easier to just go farm tokens and get gear" but do you not understand that farming is staying in one location doing the same activity over and over again.</p><p>Good luck "farming" any pvp tokens. Not only do you have to go and find your pvp kills, you  have to find the right classes to kill. If you really think some class is getting all their pvp gear by aoe'ing a group and running for the hills, you're an idiot. No offense.</p><p>I not suggesting pvp is more or less challenging that pve. I'm simply saying they're both on a pretty even table. Its not like moving in and out of an aoe range, turning off auto attack every 30 seconds is some sort of hard and challenging mystery beyond the "skills" of someone who pvp'd.</p><p>Lastly, you said that your 1 pvp peice of gear made a HUGE difference. Well yea, you start by getting the best piece do you not? Trust me, the other peices of gear that simply give you more survivability and dps will not effectly as greatly as an item that procs fear on your enemy. Since you stopped there, you likely wouldn't know. But its the same thing as getting your mythic. One item that greatly changes how effective you are in pve.</p>

[Kram337]

<p>Oh yea and Lets keep this thread on track please. If we want to discuss whether pvp or pve takes more skill, or whether or not pvp gear is overpowered, start your own thread. these are topics done to death anyway.</p><p>We need attention on the pvp gear!!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Zexxii]

<p>Make ALL raiding gear available via tokens in '09. </p><p>Get rid of pvp gear all together. Both sides of the gear gap sux to be on, either you're hitting a brick wall, or swatting a fly, neither way is fun.</p>