Hats with HAIR!!!

[Desna]

<p>I play all female characters. And I like the hats of some classes...but I don't like the bald look that some of them give the models. I would assume putting in a little hair sticking out of some hats wouldn't be hard, and could use the same values of color from the character model to determine color...or hell, give me a generic hair color, thats cool.  Added bonus if you could turn the hair off with an option in the dropdown hide hood/helm section of Persona.</p>

[Dreco]

<p>My wife would agree with you there, since she complains about the wizzie class hat making her bald. She likes the hat but wants to see a lil hair underneath since she put so much time in her character creation.</p>

[Lorzus]

<p>That reminds of this comic from the n00bz! site:</p><p><a href="http://www.noobz-online.com/en/2008/05/07/customize/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.noobz-online.com/en/2008...5/07/customize/</a></p><p>They do hit the point dead on though, all the custimization and most of it is covered up.</p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I play all female characters. And I like the hats of some classes...but I don't like the bald look that some of them give the models. I would assume putting in a little hair sticking out of some hats wouldn't be hard, and could use the same values of color from the character model to determine color...or hell, give me a generic hair color, thats cool.  Added bonus if you could turn the hair off with an option in the dropdown hide hood/helm section of Persona.</p></blockquote><p>That would be wonderful. Some don't look bad with no hair (shamen hats, predator hoods, most of the plate helms etc) however some just make you so obviously bald.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>and hats make my whiskers disappear...</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Hats make my ratonga's earrings disappear.  The reason I didn't like the santa hats on some races is because the hair disappears.  Think hats with hair is great idea.  Think of the options, like having long ponytails, would help being able to have new hairstyles without changing your whole character.</span></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and hats make my whiskers disappear...</p></blockquote><p>And give eyes to those missing them. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Transen]

<p>I just wish they'd fix the warden class hat's so that bald head doesn't start popping out of the back of it whenever running, swimming, pretty much any activity where you lean alittle more forward than you would just standing there. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p><p>...But yeah, hair with hat's would be nice too. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Transen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just wish they'd fix the warden class hat's so that bald head doesn't start popping out of the back of it whenever running, swimming, pretty much any activity where you lean alittle more forward than you would just standing there. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" /></p><p>...But yeah, hair with hat's would be nice too. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Atleast the Warden class hat usually shows your hair though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Transen]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span >Atleast the Warden class hat usually shows your hair though. </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>lol, yeah...I'm going to pass on the daisychain look.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Transen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span>Atleast the Warden class hat usually shows your hair though. </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>lol, yeah...I'm going to pass on the daisychain look.</p></blockquote><p>I thought Warden was the Crown of Thorns? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kriptini]

Certain hats DO show hair, such as the Bard class hats... But that's not YOUR hair, is it? o.0

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Kriptini@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Certain hats DO show hair, such as the Bard class hats... But that's not YOUR hair, is it? o.0</blockquote><p>Accually if I remember right that is supposedt to be a Dorag under the hat... same with the Brigand Hamburgerler hat and Swashy hat.</p>

[SilkenKidden]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>My warden loves her class hat.  It is perfect for a druid.</p>

[Tinrae]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span >Accually if I remember right that is supposedt to be a Dorag under the hat...</span></blockquote><p>You're correct, it's a kerchief or something underneath for hairstyled races (my troubie is a Kerra so it doesn't show on her.)</p><p>I'm assuming SoE's models are similar to another game I used to play where this same issue came up. The problem is that the hat actually <em>replaces</em> the hair on the models in a Mr. Potatohead kind of way, so they add the kerchief underneath to cover your bald head. Hair/hat occupy the same appearance slot so you can't show your hair.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>My warden loves her class hat.  It is perfect for a druid.</p></blockquote><p>I like it too, but liking it or not has no barring on the fact that is is still a crown of thorns. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Zizzu]

<p>Don't feel so bad. Being a female frog is bad enough, but when using an illusion like (Dark Elf) I am bald. Joyous.</p>

[Seagoat]

<p>At least someone's trying...kinda. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This was taken two days ago in the SQ mage tower. I didn't see any other NPCs in the vicinity that had hair under (or sticking out from) their hoods.</p><p><img src="http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s62/eq2graphics/miscellany/badhairday.jpg" /></p>

[Warr]

<p><img src="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/lllslinklll/hats.jpg" width="1306" height="570" /></p><p>Rofl</p><p>The lack of hair totally negates any positive aspects of these hats. Come on art team, you're making all these cool hats that people will pay money directly for, but screwing it up bad.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>**Removed Picture, as quoting pic can do bad things**</p><p>Rofl</p><p>The lack of hair totally negates any positive aspects of these hats. Come on art team, you're making all these cool hats that people will pay money directly for, but screwing it up bad.</p></blockquote><p>Your right with those hats they really do need some kind of "hair" even if it is a Do-rag hair or some other type of defult hair... though what would be really cool, but require a ton of programing I am sure, would be to have each hat come with a built in hairsyle as part of the hat. Then have the hair pull it's color from the hair color the player choose at creation. So if they say choose Red with Black highlights then that would be the color of the hair under the hat. Again the hair would be part of the hat so the style would be what works best for the hat, that way you would have fewer clipping issues. </p>

[Anastasie]

<p>Yeah - I examined that hat in my dressing room last night and it really does make you look completely bald. I will never wear a hat that does that - it just looks awful. I love my druid helm anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Froed20]

<p>I agree.  They need to do something.  Unfortunately, building a hairstyle with each hat is not an effective way to deal with the problem and would make hat-creation even harder than it already is since most races have different sized heads.  Instead, I think the devs need to seriously think about making a generic hat hairstyle for every race that can be swapped in whenever a hat is equipped.  It would make things look better and save a lot of time in the long run, making it so they don't have to design bandanas and what-not to cover up the lack of hair.  It could be a simple short haircut that's thin enough to just cover the skin but not show up through existing hats. </p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span ><p><cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>(not sure which was quoted)</blockquote><p>My warden loves her class hat.  It is perfect for a druid.</p></blockquote><p>I like it too, but liking it or not has no barring on the fact that is is still a crown of thorns. <img src="../images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></span></p></blockquote><p>*sigh* .. The Warden helm is of Spring colored LEAVES ... ie:  Green, Light Green and Very Light Green leaves. </p><p>The Fury helm is of Autumn colored LEAVES .. ie:  Orange, Brown, Light Orange and Light Brown with a smattering of Green leaves ...</p><p>No flowers nor any thorns.  </p><p>------</p><p>Back to the Title Subject ... I so do agree that I wish more of the helms (if not all) showed our choosen hair/accessories instead of looking like we suddenly decided to change religion to be Hare Krishnas ... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /><span><strong><span style="color: #000000;"><strong><a name="hare"></a></strong></span></strong></span></p>

[Eveningsong]

<p>Aye, we want to be "hairy" Krishnas :p</p><p>/giggle</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Back to the Title Subject ... I so do agree that I wish more of the helms (if not all) showed our choosen hair/accessories instead of looking like we suddenly decided to change religion to be Hare Krishnas ... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /><span><strong><span style="color: #000000;"><strong><a name="hare"></a></strong></span></strong></span></p></blockquote><p>The reason the wreaths and a few others show hair and the rest have either baldness or a 'dew rag' bandana or whatnot. The ones which show hair are 100% particle effect and that sits on-top of whatever is in the hair/helm location on the character model. The ones which remove the hair aren't particle effect. Particle effects can cause more lag, thus most hats/helms, etc aren't particle.</p><p>My hope for the skeletal revamp that didn't occur was for the hair to be seperate from the helm/hood in the character model so that hair -with- hat would work.</p><p>le sigh</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p>My wish is for more helmet styles with open faces. The paladin helm is both boxy and conceals the face, while making you bald underneath.</p><p><strong>Left:</strong> In-game Paladin Helm. <strong>Center:</strong> Forum Paladin Icon. <strong>Right:</strong> <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=444487" target="_blank">What I Wish Paldin Helms Looked Like!</a></p><p><img src="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/PallyHats.jpg" width="434" height="140" /></p><p>I also wouldn't mind styles that were just a headband with an identifying class symbol, so for a pally a band with the wings, a coercer a band with an eye, a monk a band with the yin-yang symbol, a wizard with a lightning bolt or starburst and so on.</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree.  They need to do something.  Unfortunately, building a hairstyle with each hat is not an effective way to deal with the problem and would make hat-creation even harder than it already is since most races have different sized heads.  Instead, I think the devs need to seriously think about making a generic hat hairstyle for every race that can be swapped in whenever a hat is equipped.  It would make things look better and save a lot of time in the long run, making it so they don't have to design bandanas and what-not to cover up the lack of hair.  It could be a simple short haircut that's thin enough to just cover the skin but not show up through existing hats. </p></blockquote><p>I recently started playing with 3-D art (via DAZ-3D, you can see <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=444487" target="_blank">my experiments if interested</a>) and I tend to think that if the druid circlet can be applied and show the hair, then there is the ability to apply any hat type while still leaving hair in place. I'd buy the argument about the "skeletal revamp" prohibiting hair changes *if* we didn't have the druid wreaths. If you can place one object on top of hair, then you could do others.</p><p>It's probably a big booger to size a hat to fit over hair without "poke through". Some of the piled-high elven updos would be a problem in most hats. But I'd definitely support a basic close-to-the-head tight braided or chignon look that a hat could be fitted over easily - just read the color paramenters off the normal hair for the toon and use it on the "tucked under the headgear" type hair.</p><p>I will say though that because of working with DAZ, I *do* understand now about why armor styles are limited -- getting a piece of gear to fit one body shape then going to another can be a fitting nightmare in DAZ, and I'm sure it's the same in EQ2.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree.  They need to do something.  Unfortunately, building a hairstyle with each hat is not an effective way to deal with the problem and would make hat-creation even harder than it already is since most races have different sized heads.  Instead, I think the devs need to seriously think about making a generic hat hairstyle for every race that can be swapped in whenever a hat is equipped.  It would make things look better and save a lot of time in the long run, making it so they don't have to design bandanas and what-not to cover up the lack of hair.  It could be a simple short haircut that's thin enough to just cover the skin but not show up through existing hats. </p></blockquote><p>I recently started playing with 3-D art (via DAZ-3D, you can see <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=444487" target="_blank">my experiments if interested</a>) and I tend to think that if the druid circlet can be applied and show the hair, then there is the ability to apply any hat type while still leaving hair in place. I'd buy the argument about the "skeletal revamp" prohibiting hair changes *if* we didn't have the druid wreaths. If you can place one object on top of hair, then you could do others.</p><p>It's probably a big booger to size a hat to fit over hair without "poke through". Some of the piled-high elven updos would be a problem in most hats. But I'd definitely support a basic close-to-the-head tight braided or chignon look that a hat could be fitted over easily - just read the color paramenters off the normal hair for the toon and use it on the "tucked under the headgear" type hair.</p><p>I will say though that because of working with DAZ, I *do* understand now about why armor styles are limited -- getting a piece of gear to fit one body shape then going to another can be a fitting nightmare in DAZ, and I'm sure it's the same in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>Well like a previous poster said the Druid "Helms" really are not "Helms" at all they are Partical Effects, that circle the head, just like the verious ones we have gotten as part of live events. That is why they work with hair. As far as what model program the Devs use, I believe I remember them saying at one point that they use Maya for thier 3d modeling, not shure how that diffiers from DAZ, but I am sure someone here does.</p>

[Desna]

<p>This still wouldn't be bad if they just added some generic hair to some of the hats, just 2-3 extra planes attached to the bottom to give the idea. Doesn't even need to be my own hairstyle, just something that gives the idea of me not being bald...</p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Desna_Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This still wouldn't be bad if they just added some generic hair to some of the hats, just 2-3 extra planes attached to the bottom to give the idea. Doesn't even need to be my own hairstyle, just something that gives the idea of me not being bald...</p></blockquote><p>Exactly, it would be nice if whatever hangs down would mirror our hair color at least but even if it were a different color it'd be better than the baldness =)</p><p>I really want to be able to wear my tinfoil hat without looking like I shaved my head =(.</p>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really want to be able to wear my tinfoil hat without looking like I shaved my head =(.</p></blockquote><p>But .. but .. if you don't shave your head the tinfoil hat doesn't work!   The mind control rays just go in through the little gaps between your hairs!</p>

[Ghostfeather]

<p>I like the idea of throwing basic hair on under most of the hats to indicare SOMETHING is there. sadly the simply colormatching you all are asking for won't work with the current graphical design.</p><p>Effectively the "custom colors" of your skin/eyes/hair is merely a tweak to the texture that they use for that item. The base is one color(say beige) and the color customization you do is actually jus tweaking the RGB and alpha layers of the texture.</p><p>Why this wouldn't work: unless all class hats were BLACK, when it grabbed your hair color from your characters hair texture, it would then recolor every pixel for the hat graphic(hair and hat, since usually most objects are 1 texture). Simply put,  to make the underlying hair say, Blonde, it would then recolor your nice hat yellow all over.</p><p>So to keep the recolor from doing that the developers would need to then have at least 2 textures, one for the hat itself and one for the texture of the underlying hair. Thats more work, more objects to fiddle and align and more memory to render a character in game.Resources are always an issue and they try to keep things as limited as possible to allow gamers of all computer types to enjoy the game(which might be why they try to use the same resources to have EITHER a hat OR hair, since having both rendered on every character could be hazardous to memory).</p><p>I'm not saying having both is the straw to break the camel's back. But It's one more straw in a long line of them that after years of fiddling and tweaking and fighting with their current graphical architecture, adds to the headache.</p><p>I am sure this is an issue that bothers dev's all the time but is not one thye can really fix. If they render the hat and underlying hair people will gripe about stick-through collision bugs. If they leave it bald people won't like the lack fo hair. if they make the hats generally larger to try an accomodate the hair inside, there is still some hairstyles that would be impossible to accomodate(and think of the hassle of making sub-code to hotswap hair whenever a hat is put on on-the-fly)</p>

[Malacha]

<p>Two main reasons why hair doesn't show under hats:</p><p>1) Hair and hats generally share the same "skin" on a character. Putting on a hat effectively removes the hair skin and replaces it with the hat skin.</p><p>2) Leaving the hair skin in place and simply putting the hat skin on top results in certain hair styles sticking through (see pic above of hair sticking through the hood).</p><p>Now for those of you saying that adding "fake hair" to hats so that you aren't bald... AOC tried that, and had many many many forum posts dedicated to why having everyone with straight blonde hair under their helm no matter their race/character design was boring and unimaginative. Granted they had that long straight blonde hair on every hat, so basically as soon as you wore a helm of any kind, you had the same hair as every other person.</p><p>Trying to make hats work with current hair, dev's will either have to create a different hat for every conceivable hair color/style combination (totaling in the hundreds, if not thousands), get rid of unique hairstyles that stick up too far to be covered by a hat, or give everyone the same hair style if they wear a hat.</p><p>No matter what they do, they're pretty much going to get complaints. I like how they've attempted to fix it, with making hats that generally cover up the entire head, but the newer hats aren't taking that into account, and I for one won't wear them, because halflings just look silly without hair <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Desna]

<p>It's not like they would have to do it to all the hats, just the ones that are a bit more blatant about it. Like the Mickey Mouse wizzy hat, the chain helms that have holes in them, the tinfoil hat...the bandanna one was some sort of fix. I just wish SOE would have taken that into consideration while making the hats in the first place...or given us the choice of having a messed up "sticking through" hair vs none at all (think a "show hair and helm" dropdown like they have the "show hood/helm"). Sometimes I'd rather have a strange glitchy-looking one than be a skinhead.</p>

[Jaecy]

<p>Being a female playing a female, I can say hats with no hair are useless. I would not shave my head to where a hat in RL and game should be better then life. I would love to hear from women playing as women who like or even have used a hat with the bald look. Maybe I will be suprized, but off the cuff I am guessing that number is 0.</p><p>Sometimes I feel like game needs a all female quality controle board just to catch some of the more outragouse things  the game comes up with. </p><p>For like 2 years my furys regen spell was called heavy bloodflow, a word I had previously only seen on the outside of a tampex box. </p><p>So it would be hard and take more processing power to give us hair, with out that effort, you have given us nothing. The hats are worthless. </p><p>This doesn't need to be barbie world to be just a bit more aware. </p><p>Thanks, Jae</p>

[Nayawk]

<p><cite>Jaecy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Being a female playing a female, I can say hats with no hair are useless. I would not shave my head to where a hat in RL and game should be better then life. I would love to hear from women playing as women who like or even have used a hat with the bald look. Maybe I will be suprized, but off the cuff I am guessing that number is 0.</p></blockquote><p>I am also a female playing mostly female toons and I can honestly say that I have no need to always see my hair even if wearing a hat, and I am fine with the way the older hats generally remove the hair - it is only the newer hats I see any real problem with.</p><p>I am happy with the compromise that something like say the swashie class hat has, a scarf/hair wrap thingy, so while you can't see the hair, you aren't seeing totally blad either. </p><p>Most of the more recent hats that really do show the extreme baldness off are hats I would never wear as I don't feel they are in keeping with the games styl,e but I do understand the frustration of others.  For me the scarf is a fair solution.</p>