Pvp lvl range horrible issues...

[Alazarz]

<p>Something that has really bothered me is that people can fight outside of their lvl range (meaning greys hitting reds) .. I pvp in ss alot .. it s after all a T6-T7 zone .. day after day i see greys (lvl 20s - lvl 40s) sitting atop the ss docks waiting for their chance to leech fame .. Most would prolly agree these guys belong in DLW and EL .. It is one thing if your group goes up to a red and DIRECTLY triggers the encounter with him/her and gets their fame or update .. but it is totally another thing when their intent is PURLEY to come to a WAY higher zone then they should be in to leech their titles by waiting for someone to engage someone else .. I say make either an encounter lock or make it so people cannot fight outta that zones pvp lvl range nomatter what ..</p><p>And to all the leechers out there STOP being so lame .. go fight in your appropriate zones .. OR HOW ABOUT YOUR GROUP DIRECTLY ENGAGE REDS INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR A SAFE TIME TO DO IT WHEN THEY ARE IN A FAIR FIGHT!!! .. But you guys (and you know who you are) would never engage a red by directly initiating the combat.. ===LAME =(</p><p>Regards,</p><p>   xav</p>

[sokil]

<p>If I am in a fight at ss docks.. I must be drunk or on drugs. I avoid those fights due to the leaches.</p><p>But, a few times I have been fighting and when the greys jump in I make it a point to kill them first even if it means my death.. although most of the time they hit and if they think they will die,, run as fast as possible.</p><p>To be fair, there are times when they jump in to help thier faction friends and not to get free fame (do they get pvp updates for hitting a red?) and I have been killed by greys when I was having fun and they without anyone being my lvl they gang up and kill me with about 14 greys so its all good. I say, let them fight there at <strong>least they do not need to run around finding pvp and they leave the questers that want to lvl alone in the other zones </strong>- only those that want to pvp need go to those places. Just stay away from those places and it all works out well.</p><p>On another note: I always kill greys hanging around KP docks  as thier only intent that I can see is to leach. If they were questing, they would not be standing around the docks, they would get thier quest and go.</p>

[Izzypop]

The problem isn't with the level range system it's with the fame system. Reds can't get fame from greys so just make it so greys can not get fame from reds. Problem fixed.

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The problem isn't with the level range system it's with the fame system. Reds can't get fame from greys so just make it so greys can not get fame from reds. Problem fixed.</blockquote><p>Very simple, very easy, very right... problem solved... leeching solved... case closed.  make it happen devs</p>

[Wed]

<p>Agreed. Greys should not get fame from reds.</p>

[WasFycksir]

<p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p>

[stgninja]

<p>Don't compare real life to a computer game.  You can still jump in and help but you won't get fame from reds is what everyone is talking about.</p>

[seahawk]

<p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>You completely miss the OP's point. </p><p>In a zone designed for t6/t7 you shouldn't see "groups" of teens, 20's and 30's "hanging" out and waiting just to get a free fame hit on someone else's fight.</p><p>It is a joke and tbh, it really diminshes one of the truely fun spots to have some fun fights for the appropriate tiers.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Reds can't get fame from greys</blockquote><p>They can if the gray engages the red. Though it seems to be buggy...</p><p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You completely miss the OP's point. </p><p>In a zone designed for t6/t7 you shouldn't see "groups" of teens, 20's and 30's "hanging" out and waiting just to get a free fame hit on someone else's fight.</p><p>It is a joke and tbh, it really diminshes one of the truely fun spots to have some fun fights for the appropriate tiers.</p></blockquote><p>Its a zone where lots of players go through because of the carpet. It being a t6/t7 zone has nothing to do with it. Most of the fights take place on the docks. I often check SS no matter what level I'm in because theres a good chance I might find a fight there. And often, if you sit there a while, someone might come through around your level and actually stay to fight you.</p><p>Yea...leeching is a problem...I think the easiest way to fix it is to just carnage players who attack reds for 15 mins.</p><p>Preventing grays from attacking reds at all is kinda lame. If your in Cl who says you cant attack and kill someone 5 levels above you? It will just restrict pvp in this game even more...</p>

[Sprin]

<p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> I often check SS no matter what level I'm in because theres a good chance I might find a fight there.</p></blockquote><p>Theres a good chance you can find a fight there becuase of the fact that grays go there to leech off others fights... so you have grays of all varieties leeching.... and if you come in there, you probably will see some of your level because they are there to leech... take away ability to leech off red fame and that will disapear and they will go to their level zones to find kills...</p>

[Cloakentuna]

<p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Reds can't get fame from greys</blockquote><p>They can if the gray engages the red. Though it seems to be buggy...</p></blockquote><p>Not if the grey engages after the red is already engaged with another person.</p>

[Izzypop]

<p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>Ok so if we are going to compare RL to the game....Let's do WW2</p><p>US infantry are pinned down and trying to take out a machine gun nest.  A Sherman tank showes up to help but a camoflaged tiger tank emerges to meet the Sherman.  The grunts decide they have to take out the machine gun nest on their own and take several casualties before 1 guy manages to take it out with a grenade seconds before being shot.  One of the grunts decides charging a machine gun nest sounds too dangerous and instead decides go off on his own and to fire his rifle into the front armor of the tiger tank.  The tiger tank blows up the Sherman tank, and then divebomber shows up  and blows up the tiger tank.</p><p>We should give a metal to.</p><p>A) The dive bomber for blowing up the tank.</p><p>B) The 1 surviving member of the Sherman tank crew who managed to crawl out of the burning wreck.</p><p>C) The grunts who fought and died to take out the machine gun nest.</p><p>D) The Grunt who was safely wasting time and bullets scratching the paint of the tiger tank while his other  buddies were getting slaughtered trying to take out a German machine gun position.</p><p>If your answer is D, then you might be [Removed for Content] docks leech.  He did after all have an unresistable bullet that damaged a very valuable 3rd Reich Tiger tank paint job.</p><p><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Reds can't get fame from greys</blockquote><p>They can if the gray engages the red. Though it seems to be buggy...</p></blockquote><p>Not if the grey engages after the red is already engaged with another person.</p></blockquote><p>It has never been reliable.  Buggy at best.  Just eliminate all fame hits between greys and reds both ways.  It's an easy fix.</p>

[seahawk]

<p>I understand that the SS docks are a gateway to other lower tier zones.  That I get.  But when you see groups hanging around, i.e. not just there to pass through,  but rather there to leech off someone else's fight ...  I think that is lame.</p><p>We all know it happens so many people avoid that spot just because of that fact, which imo is sad b/c it really is the premier place after EL ( in the natural progression of leveling ) to find consistent pvp.</p><p>We all know the risk when we go there, so I am not whining about it.  I just think it is lame and would love SoE to instill some game feature that prohibits leeching.  That is all.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>You completely miss the OP's point. </p><p>In a zone designed for t6/t7 you shouldn't see "groups" of teens, 20's and 30's "hanging" out and waiting just to get a free fame hit on someone else's fight.</p><p>It is a joke and tbh, it really diminshes one of the truely fun spots to have some fun fights for the appropriate tiers.</p></blockquote><p>Its suppose to be open world pvp -- hence the very idea of an appropriate tier is ftl.  Part of the fun of eq2 has always been the challenge of taking down the big game -- a grp of greys trying to pull down a red.  But this should not be a zero consequense challenge -- if a grey hits a red, the grey should be prepared to take a fame hit if he loses. </p>

[macsux]

<p>Leave the fame leeching the way it is, just fix fame so if grey engages and dies they lose fame. Right now they don't if they join already existing fight. If it worked properly I would one shot 3 of them before dying and get a net gain on fame and they get a net loss, this problem would clear up on it own.</p>

[seahawk]

<p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>You completely miss the OP's point. </p><p>In a zone designed for t6/t7 you shouldn't see "groups" of teens, 20's and 30's "hanging" out and waiting just to get a free fame hit on someone else's fight.</p><p>It is a joke and tbh, it really diminshes one of the truely fun spots to have some fun fights for the appropriate tiers.</p></blockquote><p>Its suppose to be open world pvp -- hence the very idea of an appropriate tier is ftl.  Part of the fun of eq2 has always been the challenge of taking down the big game -- a grp of greys trying to pull down a red.  But this should not be a zero consequense challenge -- if a grey hits a red, the grey should be prepared to take a fame hit if he loses. </p></blockquote><p>/1 open world pvp? ~ ok then, no level restrictions on pvp for SS, like it used to be.  Make it true open world pvp.  My guess you won't see grays "hanging" around the docks anymore looking for that challenge to take down that red. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>/2 challenge of grays taking down a red? ~ Put it this way, only due to the mechanics of PvP are grays actually able to hit a red most the time.  Try taking your most well equipped, twinked out t3 group and try taking down a t6/t7 named.  It is not going to happen.  But for pvp it can happen, especially if that red is engaged in an even con fight while they just happen to "engage" them.</p><p>End leeching!</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Something that has really bothered me is that people can fight outside of their lvl range (meaning greys hitting reds) .. I pvp in ss alot .. it s after all a T6-T7 zone .. day after day i see greys (lvl 20s - lvl 40s) sitting atop the ss docks waiting for their chance to leech fame .. Most would prolly agree these guys belong in DLW and EL .. It is one thing if your group goes up to a red and DIRECTLY triggers the encounter with him/her and gets their fame or update .. but it is totally another thing when their intent is PURLEY to come to a WAY higher zone then they should be in to leech their titles by waiting for someone to engage someone else .. I say make either an encounter lock or make it so people cannot fight outta that zones pvp lvl range nomatter what ..</p><p>And to all the leechers out there STOP being so lame .. go fight in your appropriate zones .. OR HOW ABOUT YOUR GROUP DIRECTLY ENGAGE REDS INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR A SAFE TIME TO DO IT WHEN THEY ARE IN A FAIR FIGHT!!! .. But you guys (and you know who you are) would never engage a red by directly initiating the combat.. ===LAME =(</p><p>Regards,</p><p>   xav</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">WaaaaaH..........................Cry me a river!!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">You know why we all leach off you and not others? It’s because you're such a tool bag. How many greys engage in "fair" fights and you come buzzing in hoping some one will tab into you so you can kill em? PLEASE go cry some where else, you reap what you sow.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">Personally I am proud we have drained you down from champ to dessy to slayer. Last I seen you were dessy again so I guess we need to get back to work. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">See ya in SS</span></p>

[Alazarz]

<p>LAME</p>

[Wed]

<p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffffff;">aaaaaH..........................Cry me a river!!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">You know why we all leach off you and not others? It’s because you're such a tool bag. How many greys engage in "fair" fights and you come buzzing in hoping some one will tab into you so you can kill em? PLEASE go cry some where else, you reap what you sow.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">Personally I am proud we have drained you down from champ to dessy to slayer. Last I seen you were dessy again so I guess we need to get back to work. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">See ya in SS</span></p></blockquote><p>Grats on being a leecher no one respects.</p><p>Fame gain from greys is bugged. It was meant to be that, if a grey engages a red before the red has engaged the grey, the grey yields fame. As it is, a grey will not yield fame if the red is already engaged.</p><p>Please fix this bug sony, or removed the ability for greys to get fame from reds.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;">How many greys engage in "fair" fights and you come buzzing in hoping some one will tab into you so you can kill em? PLEASE go cry some where else, you reap what you sow. </span></p></blockquote><p>You can't deny the fact...I see reds doing this as much as I see grays leeching.</p>

[Alazarz]

<p>HEY VENO!! PLZ the next time you see me have your whole group engage!! Ill directly engage a red if i need a writ update im not scared to take some fame hits .. thats the diffrence bettween a player like me and a player like you..grow a set of nuts lilboy!! ur the tool!! BTW iam down to slayer again .. u know how t is when ull do anything for a couple writ updates..Like say fighting whole groups with dessy and slayer and champ titles...O WAIT >>U DONT KNOW SHIAT ABOUT THAT ROFL</p><p>And as far as me trying to get greys to hit me thats BS .. I often will let a "engageable" grey go if i will not get anything from it..V is just upset because he knows hes a leecher and that all he'll ever be good at..</p><p>IMO its not open world pvp or i could go up and smash greys that are hanging around .. even if SOE made it to where the greys will lose fame that wouldnt stop them from "Saftley" leeching when they get the chance .. leechers are nothing but opprotunists =)  .. I say use encounter locking that would solve a bunch of other exploits as well .. such as people waiting for a group member to engage b4 they zone in .. and also that random person(s) that will zone in and ruin the fight ..</p><p>I do however realize all of these negatives are to be expected when fighting at ss docks.. duh!! (no brainer hehe)I would just like SOE to make the game more enjoyable for the majority of the community .. leeching fame isnt what this game is supposed to be about..it's suposed to be about adventures,quests and some kickbutt pvp .. now people have gone away from the essence of the game and actually enjoy sitting around and being lil opprotunists waiting and hoping that the next person they leech will bumpem up to that next title .. fixing this issue would help ensure that those who really truley do deserve the higher titles actually get those titles .. I was champ title for awhile and quickly realized for the amount of "TRUE" pvp that i do that title was not gonna stay long hehe ..( iam not saying there arent high titles that dont deservem, i know many good players).. whats really bad is that i have foughten and kill groups of 2-3 ,sometimes i can even take more out before i die if they arent geared and spelled out (whoopty doo iam an sk) .. only to own those people..recieve no fame but yet take fame hits from greys after i Finally expire .. and was clearly the victor in the fight .. it sucks to have killed multiple targets and get negative fame.. may i say "LAME" .. comeon guys say it with me "LLAAAMMMEE"..</p><p>Aight enough of this ..gonna go see if the servers are back up hehe =)</p><p>Regards,</p><p>   Xav</p>

[Zacarus]

<p>If a grey engages a red who is already engaged, the grey's fame s/b up for grabs too.  That's just obvious, and is a bug imo.</p><p>I really like dirgerous' suggestion of carnage flagging a grey who attacks a red.  That will give the grey leachers something to think about.</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Wedge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><p>Grats on being a leecher no one respects.</p><p>Fame gain from greys is bugged. It was meant to be that, if a grey engages a red before the red has engaged the grey, the grey yields fame. As it is, a grey will not yield fame if the red is already engaged.</p><p>Please fix this bug sony, or removed the ability for greys to get fame from reds.</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">[Removed for Content] respect?</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">Respect is earned at the point of a sword. And I couldn’t care less if some random, anonymous name on some obscure web forum respects me or not. Sorry but I just don’t care, it has no effect on my life in the least. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">So you call me a leach…………………………SO??<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Am I supposed to be insulted by that label? If some acts like a tool and I’m on my low lvl’s IM GONA LEACH EM……………It’s as simple as that <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p>

[Wed]

<p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wedge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><p>Grats on being a leecher no one respects.</p><p>Fame gain from greys is bugged. It was meant to be that, if a grey engages a red before the red has engaged the grey, the grey yields fame. As it is, a grey will not yield fame if the red is already engaged.</p><p>Please fix this bug sony, or removed the ability for greys to get fame from reds.</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">[Removed for Content] respect?</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">Respect is earned at the point of a sword. And I couldn’t care less is some random, anonymous name on some obscure web forum respects me or not. Sorry but I just don’t care, it has no effect on my life in the least. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">So you call me a leach…………………………SO??<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Am I supposed to be insulted by that label? If some acts like a tool and I’m on my low lvl’s IM GONA LEACH EM……………It’s as simple as that <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p></blockquote><p>lol Anonymous? Who are your toons then, Mr Hypocrit? Funnily enough, if you go look up 'Wedge' on EQ2Players, you'll find my toon. So man up.</p><p>As for respect, no one respects leechers, simple as. If repsect is earned on the end of a sword, it certainly isn't your grey con one that misses once then runs and hides while the red dies.</p>

[Alazarz]

<p>Acting like a tool?? Iam in my appropraite zone earning many ah pvp token.. 855 to be exact.. how many pvp tokens do you have? ZERO..  whos the tool? i know it's not me .. you gonna be SOL when soe fixes this issue .. i cant wait .. we probably wont even see you playing eq2 anymore eh? **Tool** ROFL . . . . .</p>

[Harbringer Doom]

<p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;">[Removed for Content] respect?</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"><span>Respect is earned at the point of a sword. And I couldn’t care less if some random, anonymous name on some obscure web forum respects me or not. Sorry but I just don’t care, it has no effect on my life in the least. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">So you call me a leach…………………………SO??<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Am I supposed to be insulted by that label? If some acts like a tool and I’m on my low lvl</span>’s IM GONA LEACH EM……………It’s as simple as that <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p></blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, what guild are you in?</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>HEY VENO!! PLZ the next time you see me have your whole group engage!! Ill directly engage a red if i need a writ update im not scared to take some fame hits .. thats the diffrence bettween a player like me and a player like you..grow a set of nuts lilboy!! ur the tool!! BTW iam down to slayer again .. u know how t is when ull do anything for a couple writ updates..Like say fighting whole groups with dessy and slayer and champ titles...O WAIT >>U DONT KNOW SHIAT ABOUT THAT ROFL</p><p>And as far as me trying to get greys to hit me thats BS .. I often will let a "engageable" grey go if i will not get anything from it..V is just upset because he knows hes a leecher and that all he'll ever be good at..</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">OH please..........................Don’t talk the "little boy" crap to me. SON when you grow hair on your back and out of your ears come talk to me. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">We do engage you all the time!! That’s the point. I rolled you solo when you were 6 lvls above my low lvl brig. And every time you see that certain Brig/warden combo you run like a little girl, even though we are grey to you. Because you KNOW what’s coming. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">And BTW with 43,000+ kills to my credit (spread across 2 accounts, since opening day of pvp) I don’t need to prove my self to any one. My proof is when I’m humping your dead body. But don’t feel special I do that to every one. Gota get my FREAK ON</span></span></p>

[Alazarz]

<p>I feel sorry for the guild he is in . . . poor people . . .</p><p>Your group of greys has never made me run!! ROFL  .. i stay and fight cons and you jump in .. everytime .. i woul never run from your sorry [Removed for Content]!! believe that .. llike i said DIRECTLY ENGGE ME THE NEXT TIME U SEE ME!! DONT WAIT TIL IAM FIGHTING.. .. and O YEA..u dont remember about 3 weeks ago when i destroyed 2 fps and you had already jumped in and i killed your WHOLE group plus more that were outside of group...????????????????????????????????????????? ROFL .. ENGAGE ME DIRECTLY ON SIGHT THE NEXT TIME U GUYS SEE ME!!!!</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Horknut@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;">[Removed for Content] respect?</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #ffffff; font-family: Verdana;"><span>Respect is earned at the point of a sword. And I couldn’t care less if some random, anonymous name on some obscure web forum respects me or not. Sorry but I just don’t care, it has no effect on my life in the least. </span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"> </p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">So you call me a leach…………………………SO??<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Am I supposed to be insulted by that label? If some acts like a tool and I’m on my low lvl</span>’s IM GONA LEACH EM……………It’s as simple as that </span></span></p></blockquote><p>Out of curiosity, what guild are you in?</p></blockquote><p>Which one? Over the years there has been many.</p>

[Alazarz]

<p>Yea i bet you've been in many guilds...</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yea i bet you've been in many guilds...</p></blockquote><p>Yep in +-5 years alot of guilds come and go............................and you point is?</p>

[Alazarz]

<p>Point being that you are obviously an A-Hole man.. nuff said rofl</p>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Xaviour wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Point being that you are obviously an A-Hole man.. nuff said rofl</p></blockquote><p>That may very well be........But that wount stop me from pushing your [Removed for Content] in.</p>

[Wed]

<p>43000 kills to be proud of, yet you won't admit the names of your toons/guilds? Interesting.</p>

[Kurindor_Mythecnea]

<p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>Ok so if we are going to compare RL to the game....Let's do WW2</p><p>US infantry are pinned down and trying to take out a machine gun nest.  A Sherman tank showes up to help but a camoflaged tiger tank emerges to meet the Sherman.  The grunts decide they have to take out the machine gun nest on their own and take several casualties before 1 guy manages to take it out with a grenade seconds before being shot.  One of the grunts decides charging a machine gun nest sounds too dangerous and instead decides go off on his own and to fire his rifle into the front armor of the tiger tank.  The tiger tank blows up the Sherman tank, and then divebomber shows up  and blows up the tiger tank.</p><p>We should give a metal to.</p><p>A) The dive bomber for blowing up the tank.</p><p>B) The 1 surviving member of the Sherman tank crew who managed to crawl out of the burning wreck.</p><p>C) The grunts who fought and died to take out the machine gun nest.</p><p>D) The Grunt who was safely wasting time and bullets scratching the paint of the tiger tank while his other  buddies were getting slaughtered trying to take out a German machine gun position.</p><p>If your answer is D, then you might be [Removed for Content] docks leech.  He did after all have an unresistable bullet that damaged a very valuable 3rd Reich Tiger tank paint job.</p><p><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Reds can't get fame from greys</blockquote><p>They can if the gray engages the red. Though it seems to be buggy...</p></blockquote><p>Not if the grey engages after the red is already engaged with another person.</p></blockquote><p>It has never been reliable.  Buggy at best.  Just eliminate all fame hits between greys and reds both ways.  It's an easy fix.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Ugh. What refutability is present here on the part of all who like to excuse poor tactics. As a level 68 Shadowknight who often has disruption reach numbers that equate to my being level 77+, your analogy is so averted to actuality it is simply arrogance, repugnance, and ignorance. Even aside from Pestilent Touch, tons of my nukes hit 80s and hit them hard. The flaw of engaging in a high traffick area is that you risk losing fame, and so too is this true for a leecher. Anyone can come by and tag a grey who just hit an 80, and then that grey is at an EXTREMELY high risk of losing fame to a secondary leecher. The fact IS NOT that "grey leechers" don't do anything to reds, the fact is that they are a force to be reckoned with and choosing to engage in a chokepoint and then complaining shows the level of skill many people have in their strategies. Very little. The system is perfect as it is. Prudence is rewarded and imprudence punished.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Maybe some limits on zoning, maybe the alteration to the fame system in the ways I was supporting in the "How infamous are you?" thread, but this is a non-issue that newbies want to gloss over and act like it's some serious shnitz when it's really the most superficial type of subject popping up these days.</span></p>

[Izzypop]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>Ok so if we are going to compare RL to the game....Let's do WW2</p><p>US infantry are pinned down and trying to take out a machine gun nest.  A Sherman tank showes up to help but a camoflaged tiger tank emerges to meet the Sherman.  The grunts decide they have to take out the machine gun nest on their own and take several casualties before 1 guy manages to take it out with a grenade seconds before being shot.  One of the grunts decides charging a machine gun nest sounds too dangerous and instead decides go off on his own and to fire his rifle into the front armor of the tiger tank.  The tiger tank blows up the Sherman tank, and then divebomber shows up  and blows up the tiger tank.</p><p>We should give a metal to.</p><p>A) The dive bomber for blowing up the tank.</p><p>B) The 1 surviving member of the Sherman tank crew who managed to crawl out of the burning wreck.</p><p>C) The grunts who fought and died to take out the machine gun nest.</p><p>D) The Grunt who was safely wasting time and bullets scratching the paint of the tiger tank while his other  buddies were getting slaughtered trying to take out a German machine gun position.</p><p>If your answer is D, then you might be [Removed for Content] docks leech.  He did after all have an unresistable bullet that damaged a very valuable 3rd Reich Tiger tank paint job.</p><p><cite>Cloakentuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Azekah1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Reds can't get fame from greys</blockquote><p>They can if the gray engages the red. Though it seems to be buggy...</p></blockquote><p>Not if the grey engages after the red is already engaged with another person.</p></blockquote><p>It has never been reliable.  Buggy at best.  Just eliminate all fame hits between greys and reds both ways.  It's an easy fix.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Ugh. What refutability is present here on the part of all who like to excuse poor tactics. As a level 68 Shadowknight who often has disruption reach numbers that equate to my being level 77+, your analogy is so averted to actuality it is simply arrogance, repugnance, and ignorance. Even aside from Pestilent Touch, tons of my nukes hit 80s and hit them hard. The flaw of engaging in a high traffick area is that you risk losing fame, and so too is this true for a leecher. Anyone can come by and tag a grey who just hit an 80, and then that grey is at an EXTREMELY high risk of losing fame to a secondary leecher. The fact IS NOT that "grey leechers" don't do anything to reds, the fact is that they are a force to be reckoned with and choosing to engage in a chokepoint and then complaining shows the level of skill many people have in their strategies. Very little. The system is perfect as it is. Prudence is rewarded and imprudence punished.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Maybe some limits on zoning, maybe the alteration to the fame system in the ways I was supporting in the "How infamous are you?" thread, but this is a non-issue that newbies want to gloss over and act like it's some serious shnitz when it's really the most superficial type of subject popping up these days.</span></p></blockquote><p>Most of the SS dock leeches are in tiers 3-5 not 7.  If it makes you happy you're more like the doomed Sherman tank going up against a Tiger tank.  T4 people are going to do nothing of value to a t8 toon except break mez and get a friendly T8 enchanter killed.</p><p>You sir are in a very small minority of Perma Lock characters.  Level lockers in upper end T7 are  a small minority of level lockers.  I would go so far to say it's a terrible level to lock at because you end up fighting all the real scumbags of the server near your level who locked at 71 so they can leech token updates and die to 80s without penalties.  You're 4 levels within conning green to an 80, and back in the day of 12 level range zones you would con green to someone within 4 levels.  At 68 you're more of a green con than a grey con making you more like the old level 65 wizard lockers in T7 who would stay 1 level into being a grey con so they can freely attack level 70's at the ant/cl spires who can't fight back until 2 or 3 wizards feed them a fusion to the face.</p><p>If you stay locked at 71 working on T8 tokens the server will hate your guts.  No matter what you say about all the good reasons on why you stay locked nobody will listen to a word you say as long as you stay just barely grey.  If on the other hand you had the guts to level lock at 72 (guts=total insanity IMO) nobody would ever be able to say you don't what you say and stand by your convictions.</p><p><cite>Venomous2U wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;">[Removed for Content] respect?</span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">Respect is earned at the point of a sword. And I couldn’t care less if some random, anonymous name on some obscure web forum respects me or not. Sorry but I just don’t care, it has no effect on my life in the least. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; color: #ffffff;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">So you call me a leach…………………………SO??<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Am I supposed to be insulted by that label? If some acts like a tool and I’m on my low lvl’s IM GONA LEACH EM……………It’s as simple as that <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ffffff;"> </span></p></blockquote><p>There are 2 ways you can advance your chacter in this game.  You can become a better player, or you can find a way to manipulate the system to make zero risk gains.  The choice you have made does not make you a more dangerous player to fight it only shows that you know how to milk the system for all it's worth like Octo-Mom and her 14 kids.</p>

[Armironhead]

<p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Armironhead@Vox wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So a real life soldier shouldn't engage the enemy if your tanks are already firing.  I consider it an obligation to jump in and do whatever I can.</p><p>As a matter of fact I have to unresistable spells as a necro, and they do take a chunk of HP out tyvm.</p><p>So it isn't always leaching.</p></blockquote><p>You completely miss the OP's point. </p><p>In a zone designed for t6/t7 you shouldn't see "groups" of teens, 20's and 30's "hanging" out and waiting just to get a free fame hit on someone else's fight.</p><p>It is a joke and tbh, it really diminshes one of the truely fun spots to have some fun fights for the appropriate tiers.</p></blockquote><p>Its suppose to be open world pvp -- hence the very idea of an appropriate tier is ftl.  Part of the fun of eq2 has always been the challenge of taking down the big game -- a grp of greys trying to pull down a red.  But this should not be a zero consequense challenge -- if a grey hits a red, the grey should be prepared to take a fame hit if he loses. </p></blockquote><p>/1 open world pvp? ~ ok then, no level restrictions on pvp for SS, like it used to be.  Make it true open world pvp.  My guess you won't see grays "hanging" around the docks anymore looking for that challenge to take down that red. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> dude you got my vote.  I've grown very tired of all the contortions eq2 has gone through to protect the carebear.  IMO tso and all of the extra immunity added in there was the finally straw.  I'm really just hangging around waiting for darkfall.</span></p><p>/2 challenge of grays taking down a red? ~ Put it this way, only due to the mechanics of PvP are grays actually able to hit a red most the time.  Try taking your most well equipped, twinked out t3 group and try taking down a t6/t7 named.  It is not going to happen.  But for pvp it can happen, especially if that red is engaged in an even con fight while they just happen to "engage" them.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Um shouldn't really be compareing pve to pvp.  Pve mechanics should have no influnece on pvp.  The fact that a t3 toon can hit and take down a t7 toon (with help) just reflects the rl truism that anybody can take down anybody else with tactics, skill and luck. </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> </span></p><p>End leeching!</p><p> <span style="color: #ff0000;">If the greys lose something when they die, as they often do in hodes, leeching will end real fast.  But soe is not going to do anything about it, as they really dont care about pvp -- just look at how tso has torn it apart with all of its addtional instances, borked aa, and extra immunity -- its no wonder that they cant keep anything but a single sserver populated</span></p></blockquote>

[Venomous2U]

<p><cite>Seliri@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><blockquote><p>.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Ugh. What refutability is present here on the part of all who like to excuse poor tactics. As a level 68 Shadowknight who often has disruption reach numbers that equate to my being level 77+, your analogy is so averted to actuality it is simply arrogance, repugnance, and ignorance. Even aside from Pestilent Touch, tons of my nukes hit 80s and hit them hard. The flaw of engaging in a high traffick area is that you risk losing fame, and so too is this true for a leecher. Anyone can come by and tag a grey who just hit an 80, and then that grey is at an EXTREMELY high risk of losing fame to a secondary leecher. The fact IS NOT that "grey leechers" don't do anything to reds, the fact is that they are a force to be reckoned with and choosing to engage in a chokepoint and then complaining shows the level of skill many people have in their strategies. Very little. The system is perfect as it is. Prudence is rewarded and imprudence punished.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">Maybe some limits on zoning, maybe the alteration to the fame system in the ways I was supporting in the "How infamous are you?" thread, but this is a non-issue that newbies want to gloss over and act like it's some serious shnitz when it's really the most superficial type of subject popping up these days.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: white; font-family: Verdana;">Serliri: I have to admit many of the times I see you post/speak I have found you (in my impression) arrogant.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Please don’t take that as an insult as it wasn’t intended to be. It’s just my impression. Opinions are like azzholes. And we all know what that means.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: white; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: white; font-family: Verdana;">HOWEVER I must congratulate you on your last post. I found it very articulate and well though out. It struck right to the heart of the matter. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: white; font-family: Verdana;"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: white; font-family: Verdana;">Stick your hand on a red hot frying pan, and when you get burnt ITS YOUR OWN FAULT. </span></p>

[Izzypop]

If you grey con leeches really do believe that your a force to be reckoned with why don't you leave the sand box and step into a T8 zone ? Or how about going back to unlimited level range in SS?

[Portbott]

<p><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The problem isn't with the level range system it's with the fame system. Reds can't get fame from greys so just make it so greys can not get fame from reds. Problem fixed.</blockquote>

[Ol]

<p>NO fame from greys to reds and NO fame from reds to greys is the best way to fix it. the unlimited range thing would be nice, but would completely remove any chance of questing in most zones.  I can just see it now... a level 80 has a hard day of pvp and goes to ant to camp level 10s. not fun.</p>

[zorros]

<p>Bring back in the rules when eq2 first started. If you lvl 20-30 you would not be allowed to zone into a 50s-60-s zone. There really is no reason for a lvl 30 to be in ss UNLESS they are farming for TS and thats quite simple make them lvl at least a tradeskill up to that teir.</p><p>Or to make it easier for the devs do whats be said above. No fame for greys attacking reds.</p>

[seahawk]

<p><cite>Bebop@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bring back in the rules when eq2 first started. If you lvl 20-30 you would not be allowed to zone into a 50s-60-s zone. There really is no reason for a lvl 30 to be in ss UNLESS they are farming for TS and thats quite simple make them lvl at least a tradeskill up to that teir.</p><p>Or to make it easier for the devs do whats be said above. No fame for greys attacking reds.</p></blockquote><p>As much as I think something should be done about the leeching, I think your point about a 20-30 toon not being able to zone into SS is a bit off.  The carpet there is the fastest way to gfay from qharbor.</p><p>However I do agree, just elimanate fame going both ways from red > grey or grey > red ... problem solved.</p>

[Ol]

<p><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bebop@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bring back in the rules when eq2 first started. If you lvl 20-30 you would not be allowed to zone into a 50s-60-s zone. There really is no reason for a lvl 30 to be in ss UNLESS they are farming for TS and thats quite simple make them lvl at least a tradeskill up to that teir.</p><p>Or to make it easier for the devs do whats be said above. No fame for greys attacking reds.</p></blockquote><p>As much as I think something should be done about the leeching, I think your point about a 20-30 toon not being able to zone into SS is a bit off.  The carpet there is the fastest way to gfay from qharbor.</p><p>However I do agree, just elimanate fame going both ways from red > grey or grey > red ... problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>Why not just make it if a low level was to zone into ss, all mobs would become aggro'ed regardless, and their aggro range would be substantially increased. make it like that with all red con'ed mobs on pvp servers, with an exception of a few.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>lol get a ton of dmg proc gear bet the greys back off then</p>

[Wed]

<p><cite>Spartis@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol get a ton of dmg proc gear bet the greys back off then</p></blockquote><p>Nope, that will just make them even more likely to hit you and hide, whereas now as least occasionally you get the chance to kill the grey.</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>lol go cheap shot broncas an see what happens</p>

[Slow]

ye this needs a fix, i love ss pvp till i get leeched by grey sks hting me for 1k-2k no matter lvl. make it that greys cant attack unless their grouped with a con. cus ihate greys can atk us but we cant atk them.