Bane warding mechanic (cross post from Game play forum)

[Gisallo]

<p>Okay this is a minor annoyance.  I currently have the 5 piece T1 shard armor set bonus.  I cast my wards on the tank and the rest of the group.  Now the heal from these wards goes on my heal parse HOWEVER the damage the mob takes from the bane warding that is attached to my ward goes on the targets damage parse.  This seems a little messed up imho.  My spell, my ward, should be on my parse no?  Opinions? </p>

[Banditman]

<p>(*@# no!  That would COMPLETELY defeat the purpose!  What that damage shield does is address the age old problems Shaman have when a tank is body pulling a tough room.</p><p>Before this mechanic, you pre-Ward your tank body pulling a mob and in most cases you wind up taking a shot, or two, or more - from the mob.  Now, with this mechanic in place, you can put up your pre-pull Ward and the tank can body pull all he likes.  Because the damage is credited to him, the mob STAYS ON HIM instead of bouncing to you.</p><p>Further, in situations where life goes bad and you get adds, the tank has only to get the mobs swinging at him to make sure they aren't beating on you.</p><p>No, crediting damage from this to my overall threat is NOT something I want to see.</p>

[tebion]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>(*@# no!  That would COMPLETELY defeat the purpose!  What that damage shield does is address the age old problems Shaman have when a tank is body pulling a tough room.</p><p>Before this mechanic, you pre-Ward your tank body pulling a mob and in most cases you wind up taking a shot, or two, or more - from the mob.  Now, with this mechanic in place, you can put up your pre-pull Ward and the tank can body pull all he likes.  Because the damage is credited to him, the mob STAYS ON HIM instead of bouncing to you.</p><p>Further, in situations where life goes bad and you get adds, the tank has only to get the mobs swinging at him to make sure they aren't beating on you.</p><p>No, crediting damage from this to my overall threat is NOT something I want to see.</p></blockquote><p>very strong QFE!</p>

[Gisallo]

<p>You guys are completely right.  I hadn't even thought of that because the following incident had me so annoyed.</p><p>I'm doing a drive through all of the Befallen instances with an SK.  After the first one my crafter friend hopped on so I went to get the last two pieces I needed crafted.  We hit the second instance and the SK is going "HEY LOOK AT MY PARSE!  I ROCK"  I then see that 12% of his dps is from my Bane Warding.  He knew this too because he sent me a tell asking what Bane Warding was in his ACT after the first pull or two.  Just annoyed me is all.  The kid is a good technical player but gets emo else I would have thrown him under the bus on this one.  Last time something like that happened he rage quit group, heck he's emo quit raids before the last named, and I didn't want to mess up everyone elses chances at shards and loot, as finding a another tank was going to be a pain at that hour.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p>Doesn't it also add an extra de-hate component to the caster, besides the fact that the damage counts as the tank's?</p><p>Bane warding is awesome, especially on an SK (spell damage crit of the tank is what is applied to the effect, and SKs often have a lot of spell crit) in Befallen instances (loads of mobs hitting tank). I think the most I've seen it do is 3.5k DPS..1k on an average AOE fight. Must be fun for the tank to see loads more numbers flying <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SonnyA]

<p>I like it how it is now. We might not get credit for the dps, but the tanks loves us for it. It helps group synergy.</p><p>But this is standard. Bards don't get credit for the added damage from Blade Chime. Enchanters don't get credit for the added damage from haste/dps etc.. You add something to your group and the entire group benefits from it.</p><p>Look at the total group DPS, not the individual.</p>

[tebion]

<p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doesn't it also add an extra de-hate component to the caster, besides the fact that the damage counts as the tank's?</p></blockquote><p>thats the 5-pieces greater shard armor bonus and yes, it rocks!</p><p>parses mean squat, you can ward more, the fights are shorter, imo its a win-win situation, if someone needs a high parse for his/her ego, one shouldnt play a healer. i mean.... we know we are the best, but we should have the maturity to let others benefit from our shine <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[naMessiah]

<p>While talking about de-hate and shard armor - on the normal shard chest-piece it says <strong>-5 Hate</strong> <strong>gain</strong>. What exactly is this? Percent?</p>

[Ceolus]

<p>Maybe 5% less hate gained per beneficial/attack you cast? That would be my guess</p>

[SonnyA]

<p><cite>Tamara@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While talking about de-hate and shard armor - on the normal shard chest-piece it says <strong>-5 Hate</strong> <strong>gain</strong>. What exactly is this? Percent?</p></blockquote><p>This is a simple hate gain modifier to everything the mystic does. You can see it in the Persona window under Hate Mod</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>tebion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Doesn't it also add an extra de-hate component to the caster, besides the fact that the damage counts as the tank's?</p></blockquote><p>thats the 5-pieces greater shard armor bonus and yes, it rocks!</p><p>parses mean squat, you can ward more, the fights are shorter, imo its a win-win situation, if someone needs a high parse for his/her ego, one shouldnt play a healer. i mean.... we know we are the best, but we should have the maturity to let others benefit from our shine <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>As I said I agree in hind sight...darn SK just kinda annoyed me because until I was doing that he was not topping the parse consistently.  I get it and suddenly its him thats uber not team work.  Just need to relax sometimes I guess <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[lastcapitalist]

<p>Bane Warding damage should count as hate toward the shaman. To say that this is the "solution" to body pulling is dumb. I notice the official mystic forums are mostly about 5 trolls posting on everything in succession tbh.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>lastcapitalist wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Bane Warding damage should count as hate toward the shaman. To say that this is the "solution" to body pulling is dumb. I notice the official mystic forums are mostly about 5 trolls posting on everything in succession tbh.</p></blockquote><p>My guess is this is simply a by-product of the way the spell is.  As others stated every other damage shield does the same, so my guess is there is already a damage shield mechanics of sorts and that they would need to add more coding in order to change this.  Its nice and I had not thought of this pleasant side effect but how many effects in this game are nice but unintended consequences of the coding?</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Actually, I believe that this particular side effect was in fact intended.  Thus why a de-hate exists as an added bonus on the greater shard armor.</p>

[ecoskii]

<p>Out of interest how much dps does it do?</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>ecoskii wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Out of interest how much dps does it do?</p></blockquote><p>Base on the Tier 1 is 795 each time the target is hit.  It crits and the crit is based on your targets spell crit so one day in Mystmyr when I had a good sk tanking it crited 95% of the time per act with an average damage of about 1300.  It ended up being 25% of his dps for that instance because of all the linked mobs.</p>

[zaneluke]

<p>Can you imagine getting the credit in a place like COA? 20 mib smacking on the tank and yoru ward him doing close to his damage in bane? The great shard set procs a crit of 1250...................1250...............</p><p>I am not here to make the dps parse, that is what the lock is for.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p><cite>ecoskii wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Out of interest how much dps does it do?</p></blockquote><p>It depends on which class your tank is, how many mobs are hitting him at once, and how well you can keep both wards up.</p><p>With an SK tank in zones like befallen, I've seen it do 1,900 DPS on a 3-min fight. The highest I've seen was 3000 DPS but it doesn't really count as it was like a 20 second fight <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I haven't used the set bonus that often though, so these are just what I've seen.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>ecoskii wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Out of interest how much dps does it do?</p></blockquote><p>It depends on which class your tank is, how many mobs are hitting him at once, and how well you can keep both wards up.</p><p>With an SK tank in zones like befallen, I've seen it do 1,900 DPS on a 3-min fight. The highest I've seen was 3000 DPS but it doesn't really count as it was like a 20 second fight <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />. I haven't used the set bonus that often though, so these are just what I've seen.</p></blockquote><p>I pretty much use the set bonus for all instances, I only switch it out for the crimson robe on the occassional raid I do (or on mobs with a reflect I don't want to take the chance that this can be reflected o.O</p><p>Admittedly I most usually tanks with SKs as thats what two long term ig friends play.  Zone wide it ends up being anywhere from 19% to 25% of their dps depending on how many AE encounters there are in the zone.  I am hoping that I am actively going to seek out Warriors next in order to see what the difference is.  If you want Ecoskii I'll PM you with the results, or if anyone else is interested I'll post them as an adendum to this thread when I'm done.</p>

[Mörk]

<p>I've delayed buying the Tier 2 set so far because the description on the 5-set bonus worries me.</p><p>Yes, the damage proc goes on to the warded player's parse... so I assumed that the quoted hate decrease would, too. That would of course be singularly useless in heroic groups.</p><p>Can anyone convince me, or link to a screeny of the effected wards to convince me otherwise? Only I find myself a little short on crit mit and power with the T1 set.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p><cite>Chesty@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've delayed buying the Tier 2 set so far because the description on the 5-set bonus worries me.</p><p>Yes, the damage proc goes on to the warded player's parse... so I assumed that the quoted hate decrease would, too. That would of course be singularly useless in heroic groups.</p><p>Can anyone convince me, or link to a screeny of the effected wards to convince me otherwise? Only I find myself a little short on crit mit and power with the T1 set.</p></blockquote><p>The T2 bonus doesn't show the hate decreaser upon examination of wards, so I don't know by how much it decreases hate but I'm positive it only applies to the shaman. I've never had problems with the tank losing aggro when I've worn it, and during TSO beta I remember people on forums worried about the effect until a dev clarified that it would not reduce aggro for targets of the ward, only the caster.</p>

[ecoskii]

<p>hmm - anyone tried on Trak???  given that the mana drain counts as damage it could be amusing</p>

[iduckie]

<p><cite>ecoskii wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Out of interest how much dps does it do?</p></blockquote><p>What do you mean how much DPS does it do?</p><p>Bane Warding is a Damage Shield.. The monster has to hit you for it to go off so the dps (Damage per second) would depend on the monster your fighting. (This is the way I see it but, of course.. Correct me if I'm wrong)</p><p>On a side note.. I have yet to regret getting the full t2 Mystic/Defiler set because the Bane warding rocks in those slow dps groups <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>