An evercrackheads necromancer comments [Archive]

Toolooze

02-05-2009, 05:28 PM

I have 6 level 80 toons. I play the game, I know the classes. I raid with my dps classes and really do prefer my necro to all my other toons. Its my second endgame necro. After taking all of these other classes to level 80 though I can tell you there is some stuff broken with necros.Number one, there is no practical reason to play a necro as a group player. We don't do anything better than any other class except solo pve.Number two, in t8 we are utterly [Removed for Content] at pvp. Group or solo, it's no point in dragging along a class that has a broken pet that may or may not be following close enough to it's master. Not to mention the fact that even if the pet is there it will do little to no good in the 1-2 seconds that a scout is dealing his/her 5-10,000 dps on the necro.Number three, the dynamics of the typical group nowadays is such that a necro is entirely unneeded. Take any tso run and look at how a necro can help. The TSOs are short runs, no need to saccrifice DPS by bringing us along to res people. Seriously, since the Dessert of Flames expansion we have been losing ground as every advantage we had that would get us in groups was based on the world as it stood when 50 was the level cap. Since then, we have gained nothing while bards and chanters have gained all of our abilities and had major reworks to their DPS. In fact, chanters are now the only mage class worth playing in group~ and thats coming from a guy with an 80 warlock too.Our pets need to be fixed. We need them to be able to dps better without gear, the gear in tso does not help them enough to overcome their massive AI handicap. Gearing myself in crit gear gets my overall dps better than focusing on pet boost gear. And even then, the dps in small group is nothing compared to the overpopulated rogue and predator classes.

Sosum

02-05-2009, 05:49 PM

thus why I am a Troubador now

Mew

02-05-2009, 07:16 PM

Obviously, you have not been reading all the other posts about necromancers. Most everyone agrees with you. Unfortunately, SOE hasn't been reading these posts either. Their attitude has been "Oh, lets throw out some gear and tweak it a bit and that will stop the summoner classes from complaining. A fundamental fix to the class is just too much work." BTW, that is why I am leveling a troubador, too.

Azekah1

02-06-2009, 02:29 PM

<cite>Toolooze wrote:</cite><blockquote>In fact, chanters are now the only mage class worth playing in group~ and thats coming from a guy with an 80 warlock too.</blockquote>I made a similar comment on the warlock forums.I am continually being matched or out dpsed by coercers on my warlock. [Removed for Content] would you want a warlock who can only do dps vs a coercer who can dps and brings so much utility.Forget even mentioning a necro lolz...Sad days indeed...That being said...Its been fun leveling my coercer/sk/dirge....lolz

Xil

02-06-2009, 10:04 PM

Some people run into this problem alot but it seems kinda exagerated. Especially in group content.If you have no mage buffs no mage class is going to do all that well in the DPS department. Just like in a group with no melee buffs the zomg uber DPS Assassin isn't all that uber anymore either.Everything is so specialized that building the group properly is just as important as playing well.You gotta think about what classes work well together.Guard/Zerker works well with Scouts.SK/Paly works well with Mage.Brawler is kindof well lets face it they don't work well yet either way until the content is trivial...I don't have any issue with DPS in a group with a troubador. And I've never "NOT" been able to kill something in the game because I'm a Necro. Not only that but I can put up serious numbers if the group isn't scout focused. Same with scouts if the group isn't mage focused they do extremely well.Stick with SK, Troubador, Cleric... classes that augement your DPS. Do the same thing that scouts do. All classes perform well with proper support in group content. Even us sad and pathetic Necro.The issue with chanter is they don't need support to perform well because they ARE support. It's kinda stupid they allow chanter to be DPS and the best support in the game but they did... Same with Bards for the most part.And really the best possible group in the game is SK, Cleric, Illy, Coercer, Troub, Dirge. That's enough to completely destroy all herioc content and even some low end raid content... And not only that but faster than any other possible group make-up.There really isn't anything preventing DPS mage from performing well in group content other than a fundamental lack of understanding.And when you boil it down the same things translate into Raid content. There are some disparities in raid content because of the changes to mitigation at that level but it still boils down to how you build the raid and what support each DPS class gets.And really the disparity at top teir progression boils down to trivial content. When yer raid kills orange con epicX4's in 10 seconds the content is trivial. And in that set of circumstances is where the main disparity shows up. It's not because those Sorcs and Summoners can't DPS it's because the content is so trivial their DPS isn't even being applied.Take those 15k Assassin and put them to work on a joust fight or a mob with knockback or stun or any kind of script whatsoever that takes them away from beating directly on the mob at max burn... and look at their DPS. It's not so uber at that point now is it?In PvP that's another story but PvP in a game like this is borked from the get go. It's just the wrong kind of Archetype focused model for a PvP scenario. I can clearly see where Necro are [Removed for Content] in teir 8 PvP for so many different reasons it hurts to think about. But that's the price you pay for applying PvP to a game design that really shouldn't support it anyway. Some classes are just going to be competitively worthless.

Mew

02-11-2009, 03:08 PM

Obviously, Xil you have not played a troubador lately. DPS stinks but support is great.Too many times I am seeing, "Sorry we don't want a necro. We would rather put a scout or wiz in that slot." Its not about being able to kill for a lot of these pick up groups. Just about any group can do that with the holy trinity (tank, healer, chanter). Its about being able to kill so fast they can fit in 3 or 4 instances in an evening. Necro's don't have to be the dps kings of casters. I am fine with Wizards in that role. But give us some useful utility. I can't remember the last time someone asked me for hearts. I have been told by folks, "Don't rez me cause you have rez sick penalty. Let the Templar do that." If I use a transfer life to keep the MT from dying 'cause the cleric is still recycling no one even thinks, "Ah, smart necro!" Our debuffs are not missed. In groups we barely have time to fire them off. There are 4 raid level necro's in my guild. On any given raid 2 or 3 of us will be asked to sit out. I gave up. Raiding doesn't do much for me anyway in terms of enjoying EQ. The gear is nice but I don't want to work so hard for a 1:300 chance a piece of gear will drop that I can use.

Dedma

02-12-2009, 06:46 AM

<cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Obviously, Xil you have not played a troubador lately. DPS stinks but support is great. Too many times I am seeing, "Sorry we don't want a necro. We would rather put a scout or wiz in that slot." Its not about being able to kill for a lot of these pick up groups. Just about any group can do that with the holy trinity (tank, healer, chanter). Its about being able to kill so fast they can fit in 3 or 4 instances in an evening. Necro's don't have to be the dps kings of casters. I am fine with Wizards in that role. But give us some useful utility. I can't remember the last time someone asked me for hearts. I have been told by folks, "Don't rez me cause you have rez sick penalty. Let the Templar do that." If I use a transfer life to keep the MT from dying 'cause the cleric is still recycling no one even thinks, "Ah, smart necro!" Our debuffs are not missed. In groups we barely have time to fire them off. There are 4 raid level necro's in my guild. On any given raid 2 or 3 of us will be asked to sit out. I gave up. Raiding doesn't do much for me anyway in terms of enjoying EQ. The gear is nice but I don't want to work so hard for a 1:300 chance a piece of gear will drop that I can use.</blockquote>I've seen troubador parse 8k on raids. What exactly is wrong with that? The real benefit you get from them though is like Xil was saying you support a caster group with caster buffs and the necro can DPS just as well if not better than that Wizard or Warlock. Less agro and the same damage is nice to have for any group.You are absolutley right about the Utility though. Summoner really doesn't have anything useful for obvious utility. They are more like the ultimate user of other classes utility. No mage gets more from mage buffs than summoner. No other Mage can get 100% more damage just from being in the mage group on a raid or having the right mage buffs in a group.I have seen Xil's groups do over 40 thousand damage per second. And he is the only real DPS class in them. He does it with Shadowknight tank, troubador, illusionist or coercer, templar, and fury. Or even Defiler and Inquisitor.40 thousand DPS. That is a Protector's Realm raid in 1 group.I once saw his group parse over 50k in Palace of Ferzhul. And it was on Ferzhul and his summoned adds not on the two large linked groups at the bottom. 1 group doing 50 thousand damage per second on an orange named monster with adds. And no there wasn't a Sorcerer in the group either. It was just like his normal group with enchanter, and troubador, shadow knight, and 2 healers.If you think Necro DPS is worthless you are sadly mistaken. Anyone who turns down a good Necro on Conjuror is stupid.

TumpieBrell

02-12-2009, 10:47 AM

1 Necro with good gear and a group specifically built to give him max dps, with AE encounters doing high dps. That's called an example, and is not a proof to an argument.The majority of Necro's can't do this - they can't get the gear cause raids don't want them. They don't group with a Troub and Illy often cause most groups are built around melee dps. And yeah Necro's could *try* to always run their own groups but Troubs and Illy's are rare enough as it is. Plus it's more fun to be able to throw together a group of friends or guildies and run whatever.Yes I feel badass with a Troub and Illy, but in a scout group I feel like a [Removed for Content]. We shouldn't be so dependant on other classes. 2 Healers? - awesome I can Lifeburn all day for a nice dps boost. 1 Healer in a tough zone? well LB won't help me a lot.Don't forget the average Necro.

hellfire

02-12-2009, 11:08 AM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>40 thousand DPS. That is a Protector's Realm raid in 1 group.I once saw his group parse over 50k in Palace of Ferzhul. And it was on Ferzhul and his summoned adds not on the two large linked groups at the bottom. 1 group doing 50 thousand damage per second on an orange named monster with adds. And no there wasn't a Sorcerer in the group either. It was just like his normal group with enchanter, and troubador, shadow knight, and 2 healers.If you think Necro DPS is worthless you are sadly mistaken. Anyone who turns down a good Necro on Conjuror is stupid.</blockquote>These numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme.My raid group can pull over 120k dps against current orange content.........numbers is just numbers and can mean nothing when compared to others.And i know i as a conj can be replaced by another class and the group/raid would be better over all..............and the same would apply to a necro. And they are really not stupid to turn diown even the best of any summoner if given a choice of a equall sorc/chant/rouge/bard..... actually they are smart.

Dedma

02-12-2009, 03:36 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>40 thousand DPS. That is a Protector's Realm raid in 1 group.I once saw his group parse over 50k in Palace of Ferzhul. And it was on Ferzhul and his summoned adds not on the two large linked groups at the bottom. 1 group doing 50 thousand damage per second on an orange named monster with adds. And no there wasn't a Sorcerer in the group either. It was just like his normal group with enchanter, and troubador, shadow knight, and 2 healers.If you think Necro DPS is worthless you are sadly mistaken. Anyone who turns down a good Necro on Conjuror is stupid.</blockquote>These numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme.My raid group can pull over 120k dps against current orange content.........numbers is just numbers and can mean nothing when compared to others.And i know i as a conj can be replaced by another class and the group/raid would be better over all..............and the same would apply to a necro. And they are really not stupid to turn diown even the best of any summoner if given a choice of a equall sorc/chant/rouge/bard..... actually they are smart.</blockquote>Maybe to replace you.And confirmed raids are only pushing 120k? How is that even possible.. are you 3 grouping TSO raids? That's a patheitc number.

Dedma

02-12-2009, 03:51 PM

<cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Necro with good gear and a group specifically built to give him max dps, with AE encounters doing high dps. That's called an example, and is not a proof to an argument.The majority of Necro's can't do this - they can't get the gear cause raids don't want them. They don't group with a Troub and Illy often cause most groups are built around melee dps. And yeah Necro's could *try* to always run their own groups but Troubs and Illy's are rare enough as it is. Plus it's more fun to be able to throw together a group of friends or guildies and run whatever.Yes I feel badass with a Troub and Illy, but in a scout group I feel like a [Removed for Content]. We shouldn't be so dependant on other classes. 2 Healers? - awesome I can Lifeburn all day for a nice dps boost. 1 Healer in a tough zone? well LB won't help me a lot.Don't forget the average Necro.</blockquote>Yeah and without melee buffs the assassin feels like a [Removed for Content] too. What is your point?Unfortunatley this game isn't designed so you can make a group of whatever and complete hard content. You have to make the group the right way or you just pay repair bills.No one is forgetting the average Necro. The only reason most Necro can't get god gear and aren't wanted on raids is because they don't know how to do damage. There is no other reason. In teir 1 - 4 raiding Necro can very easily be the highest DPS in the raid.The only way necro struggle on the parse is at the very highest teir when all the other damage classes have avatar drops and the Necro has no equipment that can compare. And even then Necro are doing 12 to 15 THOUSAND damage per second.You know before TSO shadowknights were generally looked at as a terrible tank. Why? Because so many people played them and couldn't tank at all. But the best tanks I ever played with were shadowknights before TSO made them overpowered.Most Necro just need to learn how to do damage. Instead of complaining about how they are weak and can't compete they need to try to learn how to play the class.Once people see you doing really high DPS instead of sitting there letting your pet DPS while you go afk or finish watching that movie, you won't have problems getting groups and when a raid needs mage DPS they will send you tells to come.Stop being lazy.Bigron, Xil is right you are not a Necro. Go complain to the conjuror's about how even in the best raid guild in the game with the best gear you still can't play conjuror worth a [Removed for Content]. No one here cares about conjuror, or what you think about necro. Or even what you think period. Go troll some other forum.

TumpieBrell

02-12-2009, 04:49 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Necro with good gear and a group specifically built to give him max dps, with AE encounters doing high dps. That's called an example, and is not a proof to an argument.The majority of Necro's can't do this - they can't get the gear cause raids don't want them. They don't group with a Troub and Illy often cause most groups are built around melee dps. And yeah Necro's could *try* to always run their own groups but Troubs and Illy's are rare enough as it is. Plus it's more fun to be able to throw together a group of friends or guildies and run whatever.Yes I feel badass with a Troub and Illy, but in a scout group I feel like a [Removed for Content]. We shouldn't be so dependant on other classes. 2 Healers? - awesome I can Lifeburn all day for a nice dps boost. 1 Healer in a tough zone? well LB won't help me a lot.Don't forget the average Necro.</blockquote>Yeah and without melee buffs the assassin feels like a [Removed for Content] too. What is your point?Unfortunatley this game isn't designed so you can make a group of whatever and complete hard content. You have to make the group the right way or you just pay repair bills.No one is forgetting the average Necro. The only reason most Necro can't get god gear and aren't wanted on raids is because they don't know how to do damage. There is no other reason. In teir 1 - 4 raiding Necro can very easily be the highest DPS in the raid.The only way necro struggle on the parse is at the very highest teir when all the other damage classes have avatar drops and the Necro has no equipment that can compare. And even then Necro are doing 12 to 15 THOUSAND damage per second.You know before TSO shadowknights were generally looked at as a terrible tank. Why? Because so many people played them and couldn't tank at all. But the best tanks I ever played with were shadowknights before TSO made them overpowered.Most Necro just need to learn how to do damage. Instead of complaining about how they are weak and can't compete they need to try to learn how to play the class.Once people see you doing really high DPS instead of sitting there letting your pet DPS while you go afk or finish watching that movie, you won't have problems getting groups and when a raid needs mage DPS they will send you tells to come.Stop being lazy.Bigron, Xil is right you are not a Necro. Go complain to the conjuror's about how even in the best raid guild in the game with the best gear you still can't play conjuror worth a [Removed for Content]. No one here cares about conjuror, or what you think about necro. Or even what you think period. Go troll some other forum.</blockquote>Groups tend to favor melee dps, and are more likely to have buffs for the Assn. Plus they're more likely to be chosen over a necro regardless of the group buffs - for various reasons.Necro's get turned away from groups/raids based purely on the class they play, regardless of how good they may be. And the reason groups/raids don't want the class is because it needs fixing."Learn to dps" is not the answer. All dps classes have to do that. Given equally skilled players at their class (and pretend Necro's who can't dps aren't afk watching a movie), Necro's still fall short because nobody wants them. They don't offer more utility than other classes who can do the same dps, and are less reliant on good group make up. And because no one wants them, they tend to raid less, and will have a harder time getting the gear needed to improve dps.All your points stem from dps, which is not the whole problem.And lets just say that you're correct and Necro's only problem is we need to learn to dps. Then either there's a disproportionate number of Necro's who can't play well, or there's something wrong with the class. Odds are there's something wrong with the class.

Sabutai

02-12-2009, 05:19 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Necro with good gear and a group specifically built to give him max dps, with AE encounters doing high dps. That's called an example, and is not a proof to an argument.The majority of Necro's can't do this - they can't get the gear cause raids don't want them. They don't group with a Troub and Illy often cause most groups are built around melee dps. And yeah Necro's could *try* to always run their own groups but Troubs and Illy's are rare enough as it is. Plus it's more fun to be able to throw together a group of friends or guildies and run whatever.Yes I feel badass with a Troub and Illy, but in a scout group I feel like a [Removed for Content]. We shouldn't be so dependant on other classes. 2 Healers? - awesome I can Lifeburn all day for a nice dps boost. 1 Healer in a tough zone? well LB won't help me a lot.Don't forget the average Necro.</blockquote>Yeah and without melee buffs the assassin feels like a [Removed for Content] too. What is your point?Unfortunatley this game isn't designed so you can make a group of whatever and complete hard content. You have to make the group the right way or you just pay repair bills.No one is forgetting the average Necro. The only reason most Necro can't get god gear and aren't wanted on raids is because they don't know how to do damage. There is no other reason. In teir 1 - 4 raiding Necro can very easily be the highest DPS in the raid.The only way necro struggle on the parse is at the very highest teir when all the other damage classes have avatar drops and the Necro has no equipment that can compare. And even then Necro are doing 12 to 15 THOUSAND damage per second.You know before TSO shadowknights were generally looked at as a terrible tank. Why? Because so many people played them and couldn't tank at all. But the best tanks I ever played with were shadowknights before TSO made them overpowered.Most Necro just need to learn how to do damage. Instead of complaining about how they are weak and can't compete they need to try to learn how to play the class.Once people see you doing really high DPS instead of sitting there letting your pet DPS while you go afk or finish watching that movie, you won't have problems getting groups and when a raid needs mage DPS they will send you tells to come.Stop being lazy.Bigron, Xil is right you are not a Necro. Go complain to the conjuror's about how even in the best raid guild in the game with the best gear you still can't play conjuror worth a [Removed for Content]. No one here cares about conjuror, or what you think about necro. Or even what you think period. Go troll some other forum.</blockquote>yay! another xil or another xil wannabe! Woot! wow, I wish I could do 15k dps zw, dude you need to tell me how to play!! Or maybe stop anon posting and being an overall troll in the necro forums. I can spout random numbers that are grossly over exaggerated too. But then that won't fix any problems and in fact creates even more. THANKS!!

Mew

02-12-2009, 06:38 PM

I dont play in an uber raid guild. So, I don't have the best gear or all Master spells. I rarely get grouped with spell dps buffing classes. I have never been in an optimally stacked group for a summoner. I run on an old Dell PC and not the best gaming system out there. My best dps is 4.3K. I know another necro in my guild who has all masters and better gear (better PC too). He does 5 - 6 K. My issue is not so much about dps. Its about lack of desireability. Necro's are busted. We have fundamental flaws. SOE is not fixing them.Frankly, people from uber raid guilds with high end hardware who push out their exceptional dps numbers as the norm are not helping us get fixed. All they are doing is bragging about how they are more uber than us normal folks. You can parse ovrer 12K? wonderful for you. But it is not the norm for most necro's out there. And that has nothing to do with our casting order or playstyle. It has to do with our not having access to the best gear and optimal groups or top flight hardware for our PC's. We are the average necro's - even slightly above average necro's. We will never be the top 5% of the necro community and we don't want to be. We want the bugs ironed out of our class. We want other players to actually want to group with us because they see we have value - even outside of a raid.

hellfire

02-12-2009, 07:02 PM

hellfire

02-12-2009, 07:07 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bigron, Xil is right you are not a Necro. Go complain to the conjuror's about how even in the best raid guild in the game with the best gear you still can't play conjuror worth a [Removed for Content]. No one here cares about conjuror, or what you think about necro. Or even what you think period. Go troll some other forum.</blockquote>Umm sorry no....since im not trolling.The same issues effect both conj and necro to bad some are to dense to see that....... you seem new and fresh ill hold out hope for you yet tho./Tear awwww it hurts my feelings that you think i dont know how to play my class...breaking my heart kid.

Davngr1

02-12-2009, 07:11 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>40 thousand DPS. That is a Protector's Realm raid in 1 group.I once saw his group parse over 50k in Palace of Ferzhul. And it was on Ferzhul and his summoned adds not on the two large linked groups at the bottom. 1 group doing 50 thousand damage per second on an orange named monster with adds. And no there wasn't a Sorcerer in the group either. It was just like his normal group with enchanter, and troubador, shadow knight, and 2 healers.If you think Necro DPS is worthless you are sadly mistaken. Anyone who turns down a good Necro on Conjuror is stupid.</blockquote>These numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme.My raid group can pull over 120k dps against current orange content.........numbers is just numbers and can mean nothing when compared to others.And i know i as a conj can be replaced by another class and the group/raid would be better over all..............and the same would apply to a necro. And they are really not stupid to turn diown even the best of any summoner if given a choice of a equall sorc/chant/rouge/bard..... actually they are smart.</blockquote>Maybe to replace you.And confirmed raids are only pushing 120k? How is that even possible.. are you 3 grouping TSO raids? That's a patheitc number.</blockquote>yea because your scrub raid force kills the same content as confirmed? please please go play house with your daddy Xil or something.. and stop posting about crap you have no clue about <cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote>1 Necro with good gear and a group specifically built to give him max dps, with AE encounters doing high dps. That's called an example, and is not a proof to an argument.The majority of Necro's can't do this - they can't get the gear cause raids don't want them. They don't group with a Troub and Illy often cause most groups are built around melee dps. And yeah Necro's could *try* to always run their own groups but Troubs and Illy's are rare enough as it is. Plus it's more fun to be able to throw together a group of friends or guildies and run whatever.Yes I feel badass with a Troub and Illy, but in a scout group I feel like a [Removed for Content]. We shouldn't be so dependant on other classes. 2 Healers? - awesome I can Lifeburn all day for a nice dps boost. 1 Healer in a tough zone? well LB won't help me a lot.Don't forget the average Necro.</blockquote>Yeah and without melee buffs the assassin feels like a [Removed for Content] too. What is your point?Unfortunatley this game isn't designed so you can make a group of whatever and complete hard content. You have to make the group the right way or you just pay repair bills.No one is forgetting the average Necro. The only reason most Necro can't get god gear and aren't wanted on raids is because they don't know how to do damage. There is no other reason. In teir 1 - 4 raiding Necro can very easily be the highest DPS in the raid.The only way necro struggle on the parse is at the very highest teir when all the other damage classes have avatar drops and the Necro has no equipment that can compare. And even then Necro are doing 12 to 15 THOUSAND damage per second.You know before TSO shadowknights were generally looked at as a terrible tank. Why? Because so many people played them and couldn't tank at all. But the best tanks I ever played with were shadowknights before TSO made them overpowered.Most Necro just need to learn how to do damage. Instead of complaining about how they are weak and can't compete they need to try to learn how to play the class.Once people see you doing really high DPS instead of sitting there letting your pet DPS while you go afk or finish watching that movie, you won't have problems getting groups and when a raid needs mage DPS they will send you tells to come.Stop being lazy.Bigron, Xil is right you are not a Necro. Go complain to the conjuror's about how even in the best raid guild in the game with the best gear you still can't play conjuror worth a [Removed for Content]. No one here cares about conjuror, or what you think about necro. Or even what you think period. Go troll some other forum.</blockquote>1. did you play a shadow knight pre-TSO? that's right you have no clue what your talking about .. your dady xill has thought you well2. Did you raid a necro in early RoK? and did you understand the class then? since your dady Xill had not mentored you back then!3. I'm usually ALWAYS top parse in the pick up groups BUT they would still rather pick up a chanter/bard/scout because necro don't bring anything to a group and dont have burst dmg to burn down mobs. not all pick up groups can be all guildys and stacked like you dady Xills groups.4. WRONG, EVREYONE here would rather hear what bigron has to say and DOES NOT WANT to hear what your dady Xill or you have to say. 5. YOU go troll somewhere else, the class needs a revamp and dense scrubs like you and your dady Xill need to keep your fail post to your self!

Jasuo

02-12-2009, 07:11 PM

Way to get schooled Bigron.

Suppler

02-12-2009, 07:22 PM

"Troll Daddy" !hahaha. A new phrase is born.

hellfire

02-12-2009, 07:38 PM

<cite>Jasuo wrote:</cite><blockquote>Way to get schooled Bigron.</blockquote>I know man...just went through a box of klenex lol

Dedma

02-12-2009, 07:44 PM

<cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont play in an uber raid guild. So, I don't have the best gear or all Master spells. I rarely get grouped with spell dps buffing classes. I have never been in an optimally stacked group for a summoner. I run on an old Dell PC and not the best gaming system out there. My best dps is 4.3K. I know another necro in my guild who has all masters and better gear (better PC too). He does 5 - 6 K. My issue is not so much about dps. Its about lack of desireability. Necro's are busted. We have fundamental flaws. SOE is not fixing them.Frankly, people from uber raid guilds with high end hardware who push out their exceptional dps numbers as the norm are not helping us get fixed. All they are doing is bragging about how they are more uber than us normal folks. You can parse ovrer 12K? wonderful for you. But it is not the norm for most necro's out there. And that has nothing to do with our casting order or playstyle. It has to do with our not having access to the best gear and optimal groups or top flight hardware for our PC's. We are the average necro's - even slightly above average necro's. We will never be the top 5% of the necro community and we don't want to be. We want the bugs ironed out of our class. We want other players to actually want to group with us because they see we have value - even outside of a raid.</blockquote>Sounds like you don't get mage buffs and either does your guildmate. If you are putting up those low numbers even with mage buffs then you need to talk to Xil about how to bring that up.And Mew when you learn how to bring your DPS up others will want to group with you. I went from never getting any groups to never getting turned down for a group in less than a week because I took advice from the right player instead of listening to the useless crying dribble people from eq2flames spout all over these boards.There are more than likely a lot of little things you aren't doing that you could be doing to increase your DPS.And no I can't even do 8,000, but I am getting in the middle 7's now because of Xil and every time I get a new piece of gear it goes up a little. /cheerXil is not exactly suzy sunshine and the 3 or 4 people here that flame him all the time are not the first to not like him. But he is one of the best Necro in the game. And the only reason these people here flame him is because they can't do what he does so they think it's impossible and he's lying.And that is sad. And there is nothing more pathetic. I watch his parse channel every time I get a chance to. He makes them all look like idiots every single time he groups and raids. So you all flame all you want. I feel bad for you. If you paid attention you could learn how to be effective too.And maybe instead of thinking Summoner need a re-design or whatever they would be able to see that all we need is a little lovin that wouldn't cost so much or take so much time.

Payneal The Great

02-12-2009, 07:45 PM

I got sick of never getting groups so i made a zerker so i can start my own, please fix my necro.

Davngr1

02-12-2009, 07:48 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont play in an uber raid guild. So, I don't have the best gear or all Master spells. I rarely get grouped with spell dps buffing classes. I have never been in an optimally stacked group for a summoner. I run on an old Dell PC and not the best gaming system out there. My best dps is 4.3K. I know another necro in my guild who has all masters and better gear (better PC too). He does 5 - 6 K. My issue is not so much about dps. Its about lack of desireability. Necro's are busted. We have fundamental flaws. SOE is not fixing them.Frankly, people from uber raid guilds with high end hardware who push out their exceptional dps numbers as the norm are not helping us get fixed. All they are doing is bragging about how they are more uber than us normal folks. You can parse ovrer 12K? wonderful for you. But it is not the norm for most necro's out there. And that has nothing to do with our casting order or playstyle. It has to do with our not having access to the best gear and optimal groups or top flight hardware for our PC's. We are the average necro's - even slightly above average necro's. We will never be the top 5% of the necro community and we don't want to be. We want the bugs ironed out of our class. We want other players to actually want to group with us because they see we have value - even outside of a raid.</blockquote>Sounds like you don't get mage buffs and either does your guildmate. If you are putting up those low numbers even with mage buffs then you need to talk to Xil about how to bring that up.And Mew when you learn how to bring your DPS up others will want to group with you. I went from never getting any groups to never getting turned down for a group in less than a week because I took advice from the right player instead of listening to the useless crying dribble people from eq2flames spout all over these boards.There are more than likely a lot of little things you aren't doing that you could be doing to increase your DPS.And no I can't even do 8,000, but I am getting in the middle 7's now because of Xil and every time I get a new piece of gear it goes up a little. /cheerXil is not exactly suzy sunshine and the 3 or 4 people here that flame him all the time are not the first to not like him. But he is one of the best Necro in the game. And the only reason these people here flame him is because they can't do what he does so they think it's impossible and he's lying.And that is sad. And there is nothing more pathetic. I watch his parse channel every time I get a chance to. He makes them all look like idiots every single time he groups and raids. So you all flame all you want. I feel bad for you. If you paid attention you could learn how to be effective too.And maybe instead of thinking Summoner need a re-design or whatever they would be able to see that all we need is a little lovin that wouldn't cost so much or take so much time.</blockquote>what's your dady Xill's parse channel? ill join it btw this isin't personal, you and your dady just post wrong info is all. AND the only *ok* parse he EVER posted was with a BROKEN item, think your dady has any parse with out 16% potent essense infusion?

hellfire

02-12-2009, 07:52 PM

I would like to join it to so i can learn how to play a summoner...thanks for getting me the info.

Konahito

02-12-2009, 07:56 PM

Debate is good for the soul and gets one thinking.Personal attacks and trying to rip someone's post apart because you don't like what they say or how they say it are bad for the thread and can get it locked.Just a friendly reminder to all.Thanks!

Davngr1

02-12-2009, 08:12 PM

what i find amusing is the fact, that I have ben posting on these foroums for about 3 years and NEVER before did i see so much *mod* intervention as i see now with Xill and Xills son(dedmage). is it against site rules to post under two different *screen names*? also, don't you grow tired of people who run to mods when they start to loose a *debate*?

Sabutai

02-12-2009, 08:21 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont play in an uber raid guild. So, I don't have the best gear or all Master spells. I rarely get grouped with spell dps buffing classes. I have never been in an optimally stacked group for a summoner. I run on an old Dell PC and not the best gaming system out there. My best dps is 4.3K. I know another necro in my guild who has all masters and better gear (better PC too). He does 5 - 6 K. My issue is not so much about dps. Its about lack of desireability. Necro's are busted. We have fundamental flaws. SOE is not fixing them.Frankly, people from uber raid guilds with high end hardware who push out their exceptional dps numbers as the norm are not helping us get fixed. All they are doing is bragging about how they are more uber than us normal folks. You can parse ovrer 12K? wonderful for you. But it is not the norm for most necro's out there. And that has nothing to do with our casting order or playstyle. It has to do with our not having access to the best gear and optimal groups or top flight hardware for our PC's. We are the average necro's - even slightly above average necro's. We will never be the top 5% of the necro community and we don't want to be. We want the bugs ironed out of our class. We want other players to actually want to group with us because they see we have value - even outside of a raid.</blockquote>Sounds like you don't get mage buffs and either does your guildmate. If you are putting up those low numbers even with mage buffs then you need to talk to Xil about how to bring that up.And Mew when you learn how to bring your DPS up others will want to group with you. I went from never getting any groups to never getting turned down for a group in less than a week because I took advice from the right player instead of listening to the useless crying dribble people from eq2flames spout all over these boards.There are more than likely a lot of little things you aren't doing that you could be doing to increase your DPS.And no I can't even do 8,000, but I am getting in the middle 7's now because of Xil and every time I get a new piece of gear it goes up a little. /cheerXil is not exactly suzy sunshine and the 3 or 4 people here that flame him all the time are not the first to not like him. But he is one of the best Necro in the game. And the only reason these people here flame him is because they can't do what he does so they think it's impossible and he's lying.And that is sad. And there is nothing more pathetic. I watch his parse channel every time I get a chance to. He makes them all look like idiots every single time he groups and raids. So you all flame all you want. I feel bad for you. If you paid attention you could learn how to be effective too.And maybe instead of thinking Summoner need a re-design or whatever they would be able to see that all we need is a little lovin that wouldn't cost so much or take so much time.</blockquote>See its posts like these that really get the long time people fired up. You really have no idea what you're talking about but you talk anyway. I know the parses, some of them at least, are possible. But when people come out here and say they can parse higher in zones I KNOW they can't I call BS. Then those same people start suggesting fixes that won't really fix the class, and it just snowballs from there.I'm happy you found your niche, but see I like to advocate for those unfortunate who didn't. This isn't an issue of learn to play, though by saying that you just accused every other player that they suck and should go back to mommy. Which when you say that you will indeed get flamed from here to high hill. You want to be schooled, come over to my server and I will show you exactly how much you really know about the class.This situation needs a lot more attention than either you or xil know about. Those like myself and bigron actually understand all of the game mechanics as they are currently or even previously constituted, so maybe a little respect should be paid instead of coming out here and bashing the single best conjy in the game. We are trying to advocate for postive changes but you 2, and I'm still not convinced this isn't just another account of xil, are not helping. You're part of the problem and we would all wish you would stop posting. THANKS!!

Dedma

02-12-2009, 09:02 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont play in an uber raid guild. So, I don't have the best gear or all Master spells. I rarely get grouped with spell dps buffing classes. I have never been in an optimally stacked group for a summoner. I run on an old Dell PC and not the best gaming system out there. My best dps is 4.3K. I know another necro in my guild who has all masters and better gear (better PC too). He does 5 - 6 K. My issue is not so much about dps. Its about lack of desireability. Necro's are busted. We have fundamental flaws. SOE is not fixing them.Frankly, people from uber raid guilds with high end hardware who push out their exceptional dps numbers as the norm are not helping us get fixed. All they are doing is bragging about how they are more uber than us normal folks. You can parse ovrer 12K? wonderful for you. But it is not the norm for most necro's out there. And that has nothing to do with our casting order or playstyle. It has to do with our not having access to the best gear and optimal groups or top flight hardware for our PC's. We are the average necro's - even slightly above average necro's. We will never be the top 5% of the necro community and we don't want to be. We want the bugs ironed out of our class. We want other players to actually want to group with us because they see we have value - even outside of a raid.</blockquote>Sounds like you don't get mage buffs and either does your guildmate. If you are putting up those low numbers even with mage buffs then you need to talk to Xil about how to bring that up.And Mew when you learn how to bring your DPS up others will want to group with you. I went from never getting any groups to never getting turned down for a group in less than a week because I took advice from the right player instead of listening to the useless crying dribble people from eq2flames spout all over these boards.There are more than likely a lot of little things you aren't doing that you could be doing to increase your DPS.And no I can't even do 8,000, but I am getting in the middle 7's now because of Xil and every time I get a new piece of gear it goes up a little. /cheerXil is not exactly suzy sunshine and the 3 or 4 people here that flame him all the time are not the first to not like him. But he is one of the best Necro in the game. And the only reason these people here flame him is because they can't do what he does so they think it's impossible and he's lying.And that is sad. And there is nothing more pathetic. I watch his parse channel every time I get a chance to. He makes them all look like idiots every single time he groups and raids. So you all flame all you want. I feel bad for you. If you paid attention you could learn how to be effective too.And maybe instead of thinking Summoner need a re-design or whatever they would be able to see that all we need is a little lovin that wouldn't cost so much or take so much time.</blockquote>See its posts like these that really get the long time people fired up. You really have no idea what you're talking about but you talk anyway. I know the parses, some of them at least, are possible. But when people come out here and say they can parse higher in zones I KNOW they can't I call BS. Then those same people start suggesting fixes that won't really fix the class, and it just snowballs from there.I'm happy you found your niche, but see I like to advocate for those unfortunate who didn't. This isn't an issue of learn to play, though by saying that you just accused every other player that they suck and should go back to mommy. Which when you say that you will indeed get flamed from here to high hill. You want to be schooled, come over to my server and I will show you exactly how much you really know about the class.This situation needs a lot more attention than either you or xil know about. Those like myself and bigron actually understand all of the game mechanics as they are currently or even previously constituted, so maybe a little respect should be paid instead of coming out here and bashing the single best conjy in the game. We are trying to advocate for postive changes but you 2, and I'm still not convinced this isn't just another account of xil, are not helping. You're part of the problem and we would all wish you would stop posting. THANKS!!</blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.

Sabutai

02-12-2009, 09:29 PM

<cite>De</cite><blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.</blockquote>Well actually the reason he gets flamed so much and you too right now, is the fact that you don't bring any facts, you don't bring any credibility, the ideas are not what will fix the class, the understanding of the game is wrong (and this has been proven in countless of xil's posts), and He comes here and tells people they suck if they don't do it his way. Sorry, that's not going to fly with me.You have been posting for all of a month, and you come here bashing players and we are supposed to show you respect first? Right...

Enoa

02-12-2009, 09:42 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>yay! another xil or another xil wannabe! Woot! wow, I wish I could do 15k dps zw, dude you need to tell me how to play!! Or maybe stop anon posting and being an overall troll in the necro forums. I can spout random numbers that are grossly over exaggerated too. But then that won't fix any problems and in fact creates even more. THANKS!!</blockquote>Not even just another Xil or Xil wannabe... pretty sure it's just Xil. If it isn't obvious from his posting style check out Dedmage's first message. .. can't get more obvious than that. 6 out of 7 posts so far from dedmage claim Xil is best necro ever or talk down to someone who has disagreed with Xil in a thread. IP check please.

Dedma

02-12-2009, 09:47 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>De</cite><blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.</blockquote>Well actually the reason he gets flamed so much and you too right now, is the fact that you don't bring any facts, you don't bring any credibility, the ideas are not what will fix the class, the understanding of the game is wrong (and this has been proven in countless of xil's posts), and He comes here and tells people they suck if they don't do it his way. Sorry, that's not going to fly with me.You have been posting for all of a month, and you come here bashing players and we are supposed to show you respect first? Right...</blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.

Sabutai

02-12-2009, 09:57 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>De</cite><blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.</blockquote>Well actually the reason he gets flamed so much and you too right now, is the fact that you don't bring any facts, you don't bring any credibility, the ideas are not what will fix the class, the understanding of the game is wrong (and this has been proven in countless of xil's posts), and He comes here and tells people they suck if they don't do it his way. Sorry, that's not going to fly with me.You have been posting for all of a month, and you come here bashing players and we are supposed to show you respect first? Right...</blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote>actually from the sound of it, I've probably played longer than you have. I don't demean anybody on these forums, but if you're wrong other people don't need to read it as fact, which is how you post. I know what I'm doing in the game, I have for some time.And to say I don't garner anybody's respect on here is just a L O L. I am more credible than you are cause I can back up whatever I say with facts, parses, information garnered from playtime. Can you say the same? That's what I thought.

DJV111

02-12-2009, 11:57 PM

I decided to just roll a coercer and be done with it. The posessed essence seems pretty cool. I will still raid with my guild on Nagafen with my nec or warlock, but final word is necromancer is broken at the moment. Actually I fully expect coercers to take a serious beating from the nerf bat once they figure out they are dpsing with sorcerers and still doing CC, but until then, I am gonna ride this wave for all it's worth.Who knows, maybe I should just roll an assassin and guarantee they get the nerf too. I have an uncanny knack for picking classes that get nerfed by the time I hit T8. Inc nerf to execute "now does 50% less dammage..." lol

Davngr1

02-13-2009, 05:24 AM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>De</cite><blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.</blockquote>Well actually the reason he gets flamed so much and you too right now, is the fact that you don't bring any facts, you don't bring any credibility, the ideas are not what will fix the class, the understanding of the game is wrong (and this has been proven in countless of xil's posts), and He comes here and tells people they suck if they don't do it his way. Sorry, that's not going to fly with me.You have been posting for all of a month, and you come here bashing players and we are supposed to show you respect first? Right...</blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote> yea.. that's one thing about you and your Dady Xill. you two(?) are hypocrits, i mean i have never in the time that i have participated in these foroums managed to come across anyone this diluted. <cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>40 thousand DPS. That is a Protector's Realm raid in 1 group.I once saw his group parse over 50k in Palace of Ferzhul. And it was on Ferzhul and his summoned adds not on the two large linked groups at the bottom. 1 group doing 50 thousand damage per second on an orange named monster with adds. And no there wasn't a Sorcerer in the group either. It was just like his normal group with enchanter, and troubador, shadow knight, and 2 healers.If you think Necro DPS is worthless you are sadly mistaken. Anyone who turns down a good Necro on Conjuror is stupid.</blockquote>These numbers mean nothing in the grand scheme.My raid group can pull over 120k dps against current orange content.........numbers is just numbers and can mean nothing when compared to others.And i know i as a conj can be replaced by another class and the group/raid would be better over all..............and the same would apply to a necro. And they are really not stupid to turn diown even the best of any summoner if given a choice of a equall sorc/chant/rouge/bard..... actually they are smart.</blockquote>Maybe to replace you.And confirmed raids are only pushing 120k? How is that even possible.. are you 3 grouping TSO raids? That's a patheitc number.</blockquote>THAT is a flame cup cake and it was by YOU on page 1! after bigron only tried to explain to you his views on the matter. wow.. cant belive Xill errr Dedmage has not ben banned yet for being the troll he errr they are =D

TumpieBrell

02-13-2009, 11:57 AM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote>You've repeatedly bashed necro's by saying they're lazy, need to learn to play their class, etc. There's plenty of people here who know how to play the class, can do decent dps, yet still understand the class needs fixing because there's more to the game than DPS. The people you're bashing have years of helpful (and substantive) posts. Whereas while Xil may try to help, he falls far short by not providing any concrete information - and falsely implies that Necro as a class is fine just because Xil as a player has some success. Xils posts are mainly "hey look at me", and your posts are mainly "hey look at Xil". That doesn't help anyone, or the class get the balance it needs.

Sabutai

02-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Carthington

02-13-2009, 03:59 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>De</cite><blockquote>Respect is earned. And not by repeatedly flaming people you don't agree with.Thanks!!And Dav I know this is hard to believe but girls play internet games too. /winkI think Xil doesn't say things the way he should sometimes but I think more of the problem is how much some of you value your own opinions, and how easily some people get offended when their opinions are not ackknowledged.You've been playing and posting a long time. But that doesn't amount to a hill of beans to me. All I know of you is that you flame people on the forums. How am I or is anyone else supposed to respect that?I know what I see. And I see a Necro and a Conj on my server doing better than most Wizard and Assassin. Sure there are some Assassin and Wizard on the server that do better than they do. But I can count them on my fingers. And almost of them have full VP sets and Avatar stuff from RoK. edit oopsAnd I can tell you exactly what he told me that changed how well I can play my class. He said "try different things all the time. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do. It would take me a month to explain all of the different casting chains I use because every situation is different. They key is putting small groups of 2 to 3 spells together in little chains and mix them up until it feels comfortable. Then you get so good at them that they aren't what you focus on anymore. When they just start happening and you are looking at the game instead of your quick bars, you are a great player." It was really very simple but it made all the difference for me. I do twice as much damage as I used to.And all of you may be angry at him or offended that he doesn't bow down to your experience in respect or whatever, but Xil is a great necro. He plays his class better than almost anyone and not only that but he can help anyone who comes to him play the class better too. I know lots of people who have gone to him and have become much better players. I don't know anyone who has come to any one of you on this board or credited any of you on this board for anything positive.So if you want respect earn it. Do something positive for someone or something other than your own ego. Otherwise I will not acknowledge you or your opinions as anything more than flaming and trolling. And I don't think anyone could blame me.</blockquote>Well actually the reason he gets flamed so much and you too right now, is the fact that you don't bring any facts, you don't bring any credibility, the ideas are not what will fix the class, the understanding of the game is wrong (and this has been proven in countless of xil's posts), and He comes here and tells people they suck if they don't do it his way. Sorry, that's not going to fly with me.You have been posting for all of a month, and you come here bashing players and we are supposed to show you respect first? Right...</blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote>Greetings,Now, I don't post here often but I just want to offer my 2cp.I do good dps, one of the best I've done is a 9.3k zonewide in Palace of the Ancient One behind a wizard. I didn't understand a whole lot of the necro issues when I came back from a break during ROK. But when I started raiding again I started understanding a lot of what I needed to do as a necro to be successful and understanding that there were issues with the classes that I felt wasn't right. I asked questions and have talked to other necros to try and be a better necro, and I gaurantee some of the questions were probably done. But none the less, I wills till ask questions.As a necro I feel my spells are casting slow, they don't hit hard enough, and certainly my pet is weak in many areas. I can see a lot of this in ACT. When I'm looking at how much I crit vs what my crit is, I understand I won't reach as high as I have, but I should be doing more than what the stats show. I land more hits than anyone in the raid, but yet I can't output as much damage. Some people feel though that a necro has the best package in the game. While that may be true, (and I'm being just a tad biased on that opinion), that does not mean there are no issues. The gear that I wear doesn't allow me to do anything any better than the average bear. Even if I cast my own debuffs, they do not make that much of a difference in the raid, they are not noticable.I may post more later, right now, my lunch break is over!!! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dedma

02-13-2009, 06:46 PM

<cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote>You've repeatedly bashed necro's by saying they're lazy, need to learn to play their class, etc. There's plenty of people here who know how to play the class, can do decent dps, yet still understand the class needs fixing because there's more to the game than DPS. The people you're bashing have years of helpful (and substantive) posts. Whereas while Xil may try to help, he falls far short by not providing any concrete information - and falsely implies that Necro as a class is fine just because Xil as a player has some success. Xils posts are mainly "hey look at me", and your posts are mainly "hey look at Xil". That doesn't help anyone, or the class get the balance it needs.</blockquote>Is it bashing or being honest?When some Necro are doing 3 times as much damage as other Necro in the same gear, with the same AA's, what does that mean to you?You see the same thing with all DPS classes. I know Illusionist that can do 6 thousand DPS in legendary RoK gear and fabled epic. Then I see others in Mythical with VP gear and raid jewelry struggling to get over 2500. Why is that?The answer seems pretty simple to me. Those players that are struggling need to learn.I mean look at Shadowknight. Before TSO the best tanks I had ever grouped with were Shadowknight, and many Shadowknight had tanked Trakanon without issue. But because there were so many players that couldn't learn how to play the class well, Shadowknight got buffed up to broken levels and now face an impending nerf again.Players who don't learn how to play effectively are the biggest problem Necro have. There are so many of them that the average player sees all Necro as worthless.Sure Necro have no raid Utility to speak of and pets die too easily yet do very little damage, but under the right circumstances they can and will do extremely well.All I see many of the posters who come here doing is perpetuating the myth that Necro and Conjy can't DPS in order to try and trick the developers into giving them a huge buff and that is incredibley stupid. Trolling forums in order to manipulate the developers into breaking a class is not an effective way to bring about positive change.And Tumpie look at how well all of that useful and helpful posting for years has worked out. Doesn't seem all that helpful now does it. And I would be willing to bet real money that these same posters that have been posting for years have been flaming anyone else who trys to post off the boards for years. Because that's what trolls do. They kick people off their bridge by any means nessicary.

Traldan Omegafyre

02-13-2009, 08:17 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>When some Necro are doing 3 times as much damage as other Necro in the same gear, with the same AA's, what does that mean to you?</blockquote>Prove it.

hellfire

02-13-2009, 09:49 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>Players who don't learn how to play effectively are the biggest problem Necro have. There are so many of them that the average player sees all Necro as worthless.Sure Necro have no raid Utility to speak of and pets die too easily yet do very little damage, but under the right circumstances they can and will do extremely well.All I see many of the posters who come here doing is perpetuating the myth that Necro and Conjy can't DPS in order to try and trick the developers into giving them a huge buff and that is incredibley stupid. Trolling forums in order to manipulate the developers into breaking a class is not an effective way to bring about positive change.</blockquote>That is any class in game where you havwe crappy players and elite players.Also that is any class in game where under right circumstances they are really good.But as has been proven and known by the magority of the community includeing end game elite players if all things are equall summoners are behind and as more of the priemium gear is introduced into game.................the gap only widens.You say all you see here is people comeing here trolling....but from what i have seen you have added nothing but comments and flames to incite negative comments from other players..... That is the definition of a troll and you fit it perfectly as far as can tell.

Suppler

02-13-2009, 10:58 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TumpieBrell wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't demand respect from anyone. You seem to though.So I don't need to earn it. I can post my opinions openly and should not have to deal with your flaming and if these forums had an ignore feature you'd most certainly be occupying that list.Xil earned his respect. He's a great player and he's had a positive impact on many other players' experiences. You have done nothing but flame people and have a negative impact on other players.And I didn't bash anyone. You just twisted my words to justify flaming me because that's apparently what drives you. And your version of credibility means nothing. You are no more credible than me. Just because you've been posting a long time doesn't mean you know anything that I don't. It just means you've had a lot more free time than I have.Unless you are a part of the live team at SOE? Then you are more credible than other players. Until then you are no more credible than anyone else.You are welcome to your opinions. But that's all they will ever be.</blockquote> You've repeatedly bashed necro's by saying they're lazy, need to learn to play their class, etc. There's plenty of people here who know how to play the class, can do decent dps, yet still understand the class needs fixing because there's more to the game than DPS. The people you're bashing have years of helpful (and substantive) posts. Whereas while Xil may try to help, he falls far short by not providing any concrete information - and falsely implies that Necro as a class is fine just because Xil as a player has some success. Xils posts are mainly "hey look at me", and your posts are mainly "hey look at Xil". That doesn't help anyone, or the class get the balance it needs.</blockquote>/agreegood post</blockquote>I've written tons of helpful and informative posts for years on these boards on my other account (Supple - currently deactivated), but I dont care to do so anymore. I know flamers, fanbois and trolls plenty well enough to recognize em, and I dont need to prove squat cause this aint no court of law. Once a while, Xil will have a useful post. But for the most part, it's condescension. Fanbois of condescenders have gotta be the worst. It's like a bully's stooge. Sad, just sad.IMHO, pets are not seen as a primary summoner resource by SOE. They are treated like optional casts. That attitude explains a lot about why they hurriedly designed a hundred freakin AAs for granular quickfix pet boosts, why primary pets are as badly ignored as dumbfires in the fix priority pecking order, why hundreds of articulately threaded suggestions spread out over years of strained posting are NEVER responded to by an employee that matters. And no, I'm not writing in absolutes without justification. I have never, not once, ever seen a dev respond on the boards, yay or neigh, to suggestions like equipping pet armor, having particular caster stats transfer to pets or inputting an AA that would accomplish either. Absolute ZIP. For years... YEARS. Ever, actually.Sabutai has been spectacular on the boards, and I dont see him walkin' around stick'waving. I have never met, never talked to him, but I respect him for his thoughtful posts. Im too lazy to post stats. Always have been. But I know what my numbers are, and d-mn sure know what Im doing. Im just glad that there are some folks out there who know what theyre doing, but lay down the proof too so that IF a dev ever actually READS this dusty section of the board, he wont just glaze over it.

RandomCarnage

02-14-2009, 09:31 AM

Casting order is being made out to be a big secret by the high dps claimants, but anyone who uses ACT and has murdered countless training dummies refining their raid casting sequence already realizes that the casting order is fairly straight forward, and doesn't allow much room for deviation if you plan to parse well.All references should be to training dummy parses. This allows a benchmark dps score for all clases self buffed. This eliminates any bias from group balance, as all classes will benefit from a beneficial group set up, but such cannot always be relied upon, hence the training dummy, self buffed benchmark for a true comparrison between the high dps claimants and the rest. Training dummy parses also eliminate mob/zone variance.So, to all the defenders of necro dps capability, go do a full hp kill on a training dummy then post your casting order, ACT screen-shot and basic relevant info like %crit, spell dam, AA's, and +% to casting and refresh. Stop treating it like some big secret and simply support your claims with hard facts rather than endless claims.This will allow other nec's to run side by side comparrisons with their own dps and settle this debate once and for all.

Germs666

02-14-2009, 09:04 PM

I do not have ACT or access to training dummies yet (I should fork over the PLAT). I simply changed my casting order recently and noticed about a 500-700 DPS increase. This does help folks.My casting is basically Soulrot, Drain Life, (quick cast dooming darkness or animated dagger), rot,coil,pandemic,rot.(Always start with rot and go back to it when it's back up)Where could I download ACT without pickup a trojan or keylogger???

hellfire

02-14-2009, 09:45 PM

<a href="http://advancedcombattracker.com/">http://advancedcombattracker.com/</a>

Dedma

02-15-2009, 06:50 AM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not have ACT or access to training dummies yet (I should fork over the PLAT). I simply changed my casting order recently and noticed about a 500-700 DPS increase. This does help folks.My casting is basically Soulrot, Drain Life, (quick cast dooming darkness or animated dagger), rot,coil,pandemic,rot.(Always start with rot and go back to it when it's back up)Where could I download ACT without pickup a trojan or keylogger???</blockquote>What helped me the most was to macro /pet attack to Bloodcoil. I start with Bloodcoil and Mark for the wisdom debuff, then I use Drain Life, and then Soul Rot. Then I start timing all of my other spells in between.Doing this really helped me do damage faster and keep doing it longer. Soul Rot does do a lot of damage for us but Bloodcoil is much better for me to open with. Bloodcoil almost always does more damage for me than Soul Rot when I make sure both are always cast the moment they are ready.I don't just use Soul Rot to time my other spells I also use Bloodcoil and Drain Life because unless I am casting all of them the very instant they are ready I am losing damage. However, if it is a linked encounter I will get alot more from pandemic and bloodcloud than the other two so I have to change from timing between Soul Rot, Bloodcoil, and Drain Life to filling the spaces inbetween Pandemic and Bloodcloud with whatever spells you can. I also use the blue AE from Siphon of Souls over and over on linked fights. I make sure that Siphon of Souls is on every single mob the tank targets just before it dies so that it will come back up as often as possible.I used to do very little on linked encounters because I didn't know that siphon of souls ae mixed with the other two did so much damage but now I have been able to do over 10,000 damage per second on 4 or more linked mobs with them. I have seen other Necro do in the 20's. I don't understand how yet. I think it is because they have much higher spell critical chance than I do.I think things like that are why it is so hard to find anyone who will put down a casting order. To do lots of damage consitantly you have to have many different casting orders for different situations.I also think this is the reason some Necro are very low on the parse too because they try to be consistant by always using the same casting order when they could do more damage if they changed depending on what they are killing and how fast it is dieing.If the mobs are dieing really fast I can't cast the same way as if they are taking a long time or I will do a lot less damage. If it is a linked encounter I have to change to mostly AE spells to get the most return per spell. If I have Maestro, or Piece of Mind I want to score as many hits as I can as fast as I can. If I have lots of casting speed buffs and reuse buffs I want to use bigger spells like Master Strike and Drain Life more often. If I have a Shadowknight tanking I need to use death march to get lots of damage out really fast. If I have Jester's cap on you the same thing.There is no one way for Necro. You have to learn many different ways or you won't be successful. Xil taught me all of these things and I am a much better player for it. You can be to if you want to try new things instead of letting other people convince you there is no other way to do things.

Davngr1

02-15-2009, 05:08 PM

<cite>Dedmage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I do not have ACT or access to training dummies yet (I should fork over the PLAT). I simply changed my casting order recently and noticed about a 500-700 DPS increase. This does help folks.My casting is basically Soulrot, Drain Life, (quick cast dooming darkness or animated dagger), rot,coil,pandemic,rot.(Always start with rot and go back to it when it's back up)Where could I download ACT without pickup a trojan or keylogger???</blockquote>What helped me the most was to macro /pet attack to Bloodcoil. I start with Bloodcoil and Mark for the wisdom debuff, then I use Drain Life, and then Soul Rot. Then I start timing all of my other spells in between.Doing this really helped me do damage faster and keep doing it longer. Soul Rot does do a lot of damage for us but Bloodcoil is much better for me to open with. Bloodcoil almost always does more damage for me than Soul Rot when I make sure both are always cast the moment they are ready.I don't just use Soul Rot to time my other spells I also use Bloodcoil and Drain Life because unless I am casting all of them the very instant they are ready I am losing damage. However, if it is a linked encounter I will get alot more from pandemic and bloodcloud than the other two so I have to change from timing between Soul Rot, Bloodcoil, and Drain Life to filling the spaces inbetween Pandemic and Bloodcloud with whatever spells you can. I also use the blue AE from Siphon of Souls over and over on linked fights. I make sure that Siphon of Souls is on every single mob the tank targets just before it dies so that it will come back up as often as possible.I used to do very little on linked encounters because I didn't know that siphon of souls ae mixed with the other two did so much damage but now I have been able to do over 10,000 damage per second on 4 or more linked mobs with them. I have seen other Necro do in the 20's. I don't understand how yet. I think it is because they have much higher spell critical chance than I do.I think things like that are why it is so hard to find anyone who will put down a casting order. To do lots of damage consitantly you have to have many different casting orders for different situations.I also think this is the reason some Necro are very low on the parse too because they try to be consistant by always using the same casting order when they could do more damage if they changed depending on what they are killing and how fast it is dieing.If the mobs are dieing really fast I can't cast the same way as if they are taking a long time or I will do a lot less damage. If it is a linked encounter I have to change to mostly AE spells to get the most return per spell. If I have Maestro, or Piece of Mind I want to score as many hits as I can as fast as I can. If I have lots of casting speed buffs and reuse buffs I want to use bigger spells like Master Strike and Drain Life more often. If I have a Shadowknight tanking I need to use death march to get lots of damage out really fast. If I have Jester's cap on you the same thing.There is no one way for Necro. You have to learn many different ways or you won't be successful. Xil taught me all of these things and I am a much better player for it. You can be to if you want to try new things instead of letting other people convince you there is no other way to do things.</blockquote> and all you just wrote me and most of the summoner that post here figured out back @ lvl 30 in Enchanted Lands. that is why you and your Xil's post about L2play seem so inflammatory to everyone here and are perceived as trolls.