Dps of warlock vs coercer/sk [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Azekah1

02-04-2009, 04:20 PM

Ok, I know we have good dps, but there have been some instances where I've been almost equal if not beaten by a sk/coercer on dps.My warlock is 48, you can check the gear here: <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=1428544120" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...erId=1428544120</a>I'm on a pvp server so I'm geared out pretty well.I also have all spells at least adept III or mastered. I use good food, even temp potions.I have MS and FC in AA atm.I like to think I know how to play the class well. I mean...theres not a whole lot to think about when casting spells in a group situation. Start with debuffs, then cast damage spells. Use encounter/aoe's when applicable, casting in time so that you always have a spell available...and so on...But I still struggle to beat coercers/sks on the parse.I don't really plan to raid, so I'm not really concerned about that end...I'm mainly concerned about pvp really.The fact that a coercer, who with all that dps has a ton of utility/CC, or an sk who gets to wear plate, has HT, lifetaps can put out as good as if not better dps than me, makes me scratch my head and wonder why I rolled this class.

Uumuuanu

02-04-2009, 04:56 PM

It's not uncommon. One of the SK I regularly group with will easily outparse everyone in the group on a consistent bases, even on insanely massive pulls (think 4+ groups of mobs in Befallen). One of the coercers in our raid, she is regularly up there with me on any single pull and often beats me and depending on whats up (usuallyFC makes the diff) she can easily keep up or out parse me on groups.Big things are casting speed for warlocks. If all your spells aren't down, you need more casting speed.

Azekah1

02-04-2009, 05:51 PM

<cite>Uumuuanu wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's not uncommon. One of the SK I regularly group with will easily outparse everyone in the group on a consistent bases, even on insanely massive pulls (think 4+ groups of mobs in Befallen). One of the coercers in our raid, she is regularly up there with me on any single pull and often beats me and depending on whats up (usuallyFC makes the diff) she can easily keep up or out parse me on groups.Big things are casting speed for warlocks. If all your spells aren't down, you need more casting speed.</blockquote>Well I need MS for pvp, FC should help with casting speed every 2 mins for 15 secs... : 0 I just got that recently so haven't been able to test much in group parse difference with it.I guess I could work down agi line next to increase my casting speed, any other suggestions?

DistinctlyBenign

02-09-2009, 02:32 PM

Well I don't know about PvP or an SK's DPS, but I regularly Duo with a Coercer who is a friend of mine IRL. He almost always beats me out in DPS.When we run things I'm normally second to him in DPS, on Named fights he pushes 2k where I'm something like 1.5k.This is at level 75ish, I'm sure my DPS is a bit low. I but gear as I feel I need it, I don't have my whole set of Mastercrafted 72 yet, and a bunch of my spells are stil App 1. I'm going to upgrade as I go but I don't focus too hard untill I hit 80. Where as he is in full mastercrafted and upgrades his spells to adept III's as they become availible.

Dezimus

02-09-2009, 08:34 PM

Biggest problem a Warlock faces is casting times (note: reuse time is also a big help). Warlocks are one of the slowest, if not the slowest, casters out there. I'd recommend you do some research and look into aquiring items with Sorcerous Alacrity. At your level you won't find much, but it will at least give you an idea on what items to go after once you do reach the higher levels. Oddly enough, at lv 48, how do you have your Warlock spec'd out. I know you mentioned FC & MC., but mind if you point out exactly how your Sorcerer and Warlock trees set up?

Windowlicker

02-10-2009, 10:17 AM

I've just retired my Warlock. To be honest, I haven't seen a single positive change to this class since I posted the thread consolidating our issues and concerns. (It's sticky!)The only positive change we have to look forward to at the moment, is the fixing of the AE hate-gain which hasn't even made it to live servers yet. That alone is not enough.So, unfortunately this class is going in the useless bin for now. If you folks want something worth your time, I suggest you roll a coercer or illusionist. Heck, roll a Summoner.

AziBam

02-10-2009, 11:02 AM

<cite>DistinctlyBenign wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I don't know about PvP or an SK's DPS, but I regularly Duo with a Coercer who is a friend of mine IRL. He almost always beats me out in DPS.When we run things I'm normally second to him in DPS, on Named fights he pushes 2k where I'm something like 1.5k.This is at level 75ish, I'm sure my DPS is a bit low. I but gear as I feel I need it, I don't have my whole set of Mastercrafted 72 yet, and a bunch of my spells are stil App 1. I'm going to upgrade as I go but I don't focus too hard untill I hit 80. Where as he is in full mastercrafted and upgrades his spells to adept III's as they become availible.</blockquote>No reason not to start upgrading spells after level 71. None of those spells will get an upgrade until the level cap changes. Until you do that you are comparing apples and oranges. Your damage will be down and your resists will be up. If your friend is using all A3s then he really SHOULD be higher at this point.

Azekah1

02-10-2009, 01:21 PM

<cite>Dezimus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oddly enough, at lv 48, how do you have your Warlock spec'd out. I know you mentioned FC & MC., but mind if you point out exactly how your Sorcerer and Warlock trees set up?</blockquote>I only have a few points after FC & MS...I filling out the agi line now...

Araxes

02-11-2009, 01:40 AM

Zahne you finally thre in the towel, eh? Ah, we are a dying breed ... but one day ... one day ... we will reclaim our former glory. ONE DAY! /shakes fistAra

Windowlicker

02-11-2009, 09:29 AM

<cite>Araxes@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zahne you finally thre in the towel, eh? Ah, we are a dying breed ... but one day ... one day ... we will reclaim our former glory. ONE DAY! /shakes fistAra</blockquote>Unfortunately yes. My main has now been switched to my Berserker at the raid leaders request. That's a glaring example of the current uselessness of the Warlock in a Raid setting.What's the point in bringing a class that can do OK damage, but provides virtually nothing else to the raid? It's easier to just bring another illusionist.And I'm sorry to say it, it dosn't look like anyone on the dev team really realizes our usefulness has diminished.

Fendaria

02-11-2009, 04:58 PM

Enchanters are just extremely powerful right now with everything they bring to the table compared to sorcerers. The DPS difference just isn't that much, especially considering how helpful an enchanter is in group to the sorcerer's DPS.Fast casters are just easier to gear up and max out than slow casters. Plus with Propigations they don't need to worry about spell haste nearly a much as a sorcerer. The only sorta equivalent item sorcs have is TC (or the truby one) which is a buff from another class.Maybe if sorcs had their own version of Propigations that delt with +SD or something it would help.I also feel the coming hate changes are going to hurt sorcerers much more thanI don't know though, its just disheartening.I am hoping some kind of mage balancing is out there on the horizon but I doubt even if it happens this year it will actually address the issue in a way we would feel is sufficient.Fendaria

Azekah1

02-13-2009, 11:15 AM

If they gave the other mages the same agi line as enchanters that would be pretty sweet... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ROCKHEART

02-13-2009, 12:13 PM

Hello fellow Warlocks yes we are a dying breed it’s very hard to find a group this days they would rather have a scout or a Coercer/Illusionist. The Agility line for Enchanters is ridiculous in the casting & recovery speed they acquire; it should be available to all the mage classes in one form or another to the same degree. We do have the slowest casting recovery of any mage class. Since we (Warlocks & Wizards) are strictly a dps class we should have the fastest casting recovery on our spells so we can compete and be desired in groups. Hopefully one day they will fix the issues the utility classes should not be able to do anywhere near the amount of dps we do. Fendaria I believe the agro fix once it is in place will actualy help us Warlocks as we will not generate the compounded agro we currently do on multiple groups. I do well on dps if i am running with similarly equipped people i an either first or second on the parse going back and forth but have to watch it if we really try to stay on top we pull agro and die. I always known the second im puling agro when my critical line up and I parse 1K or more than the rest the opposition is all over me and I usually die. Sk have had their abilities seriously upgraded recently and are doing insane dps the one good thing is if an SK is tanking and toping the parse i do not have to worry about agro.

Captain Apple Darkberry

02-13-2009, 03:38 PM

My Coercer outright destroys my Warlock for DPS... ...I know how to play both very well. The only time there is a difference, is if the tank pulls the whole zone, and doesn't get upset if I were to make things a little "messy" in which case my Warlock can pull ahead.It seems to me, and to many, that enchanters are extremely overpowered/overgifted in the current environment. I am not the one to say whether that means Sorcerers and especially summoners are underpowered or whether 'chanters truly are buffed up a bit too much. I personally understand the woes that Coercers had to suffer through for so long...but now that the chanters revieved a buff, that put them at nearly in the same catagory DPS wise as sorcerers, yet with buffs to drool over...well, maybe some Dev should really consider a "Mage" revamp to address the issues...

Dezimus

02-14-2009, 07:33 PM

<cite>ROCKHEART wrote:</cite><blockquote>.... Since we (Warlocks & Wizards) are strictly a dps class we should have the fastest casting recovery on our spells so we can compete and be desired in groups ....</blockquote>Hmm. I don't think Sorcerer's problem is faster recovery on our spells. There are plenty of easily aquired gear (easily as in for everyone, not as in select few) that has arcane and/or empyrian recovery on it that, added to our AA's, makes our class' spell recovery one of the fastest out there, if not the fastest. I've noticed how quick my spells come back up to cast again. But casting those spells is like molassas pouring compared to other casters.Our biggest bane isn't recovery, it's actual casting speed. Even with AA's, there is little to no Sorcerous and/or Magical Alacrity that is as easily accesable as the casting recovery gear is and that makes the Sorcerer the slowest caster of the mage class. I've tested putting on just 1 piece of Sorcerous Alacrity gear on (alacrity II) and the difference was noticable. Now am aiming for more alacrity gear and test them compared to what I have now (Innoruuk providing the blasted items drop and I win em).

Deathspell

02-15-2009, 08:31 AM

<cite>Dezimus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ROCKHEART wrote:</cite><blockquote>.... Since we (Warlocks & Wizards) are strictly a dps class we should have the fastest casting recovery on our spells so we can compete and be desired in groups ....</blockquote>Hmm. I don't think Sorcerer's problem is faster recovery on our spells. There are plenty of easily aquired gear (easily as in for everyone, not as in select few) that has arcane and/or empyrian recovery on it that, added to our AA's, makes our class' spell recovery one of the fastest out there, if not the fastest. I've noticed how quick my spells come back up to cast again. But casting those spells is like molassas pouring compared to other casters.Our biggest bane isn't recovery, it's actual casting speed. Even with AA's, there is little to no Sorcerous and/or Magical Alacrity that is as easily accesable as the casting recovery gear is and that makes the Sorcerer the slowest caster of the mage class. I've tested putting on just 1 piece of Sorcerous Alacrity gear on (alacrity II) and the difference was noticable. Now am aiming for more alacrity gear and test them compared to what I have now (Innoruuk providing the blasted items drop and I win em).</blockquote>For years Ive been thinking Warlocks are too slow casters. Not only within the game mechanics to achieve decent dps, but also for our enjoyment. The casting speed is simply too slow to enjoy the class.I took all the reduced timers I could get with AA and for some time i was actually thinking the AA-effects were broken, because compared to other classes Warlocks are STILL so slow!!I dont even want to think what it would be without those AA-adjustments. It's horrible.On top of that you get competition from a lot of other classes with insane dps outputs and as a warlock if you have one spell resisting your dps is down the drain fro sure.

Kenikia

02-15-2009, 01:20 PM

I know it may seem silly but I love my Warlock. I especially love my Warlock when I have fast cast and TC in my group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />OK so my 4.5k parse pales in comparison to my boyfriend's 8-9k Assassin parse or yes...the coercer kicking my butt....but overall, I like it. Faster casting would be the best thign ever. I did have a nice group that has so much reuse and cast reduction that it was almost instacast -- won't see it again for a long time as the silly conj always gets the buffs on them if they are in the group <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

AziBam

02-15-2009, 10:06 PM

<cite>Kilanix@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it may seem silly but I love my Warlock. I especially love my Warlock when I have fast cast and TC in my group <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />OK so my 4.5k parse pales in comparison to my boyfriend's 8-9k Assassin parse or yes...the coercer kicking my butt....but overall, I like it. Faster casting would be the best thign ever. I did have a nice group that has so much reuse and cast reduction that it was almost instacast -- won't see it again for a long time as the silly conj always gets the buffs on them if they are in the group <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Having both an Illy and a Warlock myself, there are very few reasons why a conj should ever get TC over a lock. You need to lobby harder for it.

Dezimus

02-16-2009, 12:40 AM

<cite>Deathspell wrote:</cite><blockquote>On top of that you get competition from a lot of other classes with insane dps outputs and as a warlock if you have one spell resisting your dps is down the drain fro sure.</blockquote>That's also true. With only a nox debuff, if we get resisted it's usually game over. Time to look into debuff gear too ... hmmm hmmm /ponders.

Demondred

02-18-2009, 05:54 PM

I am a VP raid geared Warlock on Nek server and I can say that some serious changes need to be looked into for Wizard AND Warlock. We should always be top DPS. Period. I don't want to nerf other classes, I don't want to complain and moan about other classes, I do want Sony to take a good look at parses and do something about it. I can honestly say, all things given equal, I can consistantly out parse our raid SK.....barely. Coercer; only if he slacks a lot. Throw in the fact that our assassin is parsing like 15k a fight, and I am not even close.So Sony, if you read this, seriously take a look at Wizard and Warlock DPS -- they need some help. Fix those guys and FINALLY, you will be close to not having to tweak the DPS classes for lack of balance. You can go on and redo hate, etc, etc, etc. The Scout classes are looking great, Coercer and Illy look good as well as Necro and Conj -- just fix the Warlock and Wizard and you are there.....PLEASE. YOU ARE SO CLOSE!!!!

Eveningdress

02-19-2009, 12:32 AM

yes. that's our big problems. We are top dps class. like assa,ranger. we can do just only DPS. we have not useful buff. so we are not favorite class at grp play. in addition, now coercer,illy they got a out parse. they have many goodbuff. so almost ppl are find them.Wizzy and Warlock. I don't understand whether we are top dpser or not.

conscript

02-22-2009, 11:10 PM

<cite>Demondred wrote:</cite><blockquote>as well as Necro and Conj</blockquote>No.I just lost all respect for you.

Hellswrath

02-23-2009, 04:19 PM

I'll throw in my support for the obviously needed fixes to the dps discrepancies vs. utility among the classes.Sorry to see you leave the fight, Zahne. Hopefully they will restore our usefulness and we'll see you on your lock again, happily nuking away.

Colnago

02-23-2009, 05:01 PM

Suggest you roll a Warlock on a pvp server if you want to see the real power we have. Where a single warlock will double the parse of anyone else in the group. We are killing machines in pvp <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" />

AziBam

02-26-2009, 12:46 PM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've just retired my Warlock. To be honest, I haven't seen a single positive change to this class since I posted the thread consolidating our issues and concerns. (It's sticky!)The only positive change we have to look forward to at the moment, is the fixing of the AE hate-gain which hasn't even made it to live servers yet. That alone is not enough.So, unfortunately this class is going in the useless bin for now. If you folks want something worth your time, I suggest you roll a coercer or illusionist. Heck, roll a Summoner.</blockquote>I'm curious though, and I'm not flaming or being a smart A**. Are your really retiring your lock because you view the class as [Removed for Content] or is it more to do with your raid needs? I don't raid on my lock as it's my alt,alt alt or somewhere down that chain. I know you do raid, or did, with your lock. I know raids are STILL mostly ST content. Even so, it seems to me we do very respectable dps on ST encounters and of course rock on multiples. I understand "retiring" a toon just because you get tired of it. I've been there. I also understand a main change when your raid force needs it. Been there too. It just seems to me that warlocks are in as good or better a position here in TSO than they have been since they were forced heavily to the AE side of things..when was that, LU13? before? I honestly don't recall which update other than it was a looooong time ago and I didn't have my warlock yet at that point. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Btw, I'm most definitely not saying everything is perfect...just...better than it has been. My perception watching parses is that mages in general have made substantial gains vs. scouts here in TSO. (I'll qualify my comment with noting that our overall highest dpser in RoK was an assassin who doesn't play that toon any longer so I don't get to see that comparison now in TSO.)Edit to add:P.S. And no, I'm not just posting this to you in the warlock forums in an effort to distract you from trying to get my SK nerfed! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I really do want to hear from you as a long timer warlock on the question above.

Dezimus

02-26-2009, 10:20 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>..... It just seems to me that warlocks are in as good or better a position here in TSO than they have been since they were forced heavily to the AE side of things .....</blockquote>Yes, that explains why I see many Warlock LFG for hours upon hours on Unrest server. Warlocks on paper are in a better position. In application they are still left out in the rain.

AziBam

02-26-2009, 11:01 PM

<cite>Dezimus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>..... It just seems to me that warlocks are in as good or better a position here in TSO than they have been since they were forced heavily to the AE side of things .....</blockquote>Yes, that explains why I see many Warlock LFG for hours upon hours on Unrest server. Warlocks on paper are in a better position. In application they are still left out in the rain.</blockquote>LOL! Nice tone. All I can say is I haven't had that same problem. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Dezimus

02-28-2009, 08:24 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! Nice tone. All I can say is I haven't had that same problem. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I didn't either on other servers. Unrest seems to suffer from Warlock-a-phobia <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />Back on track: Aquired gear with both sorcerous alacrity IV and V, added to the II I already have. Casting time and DPS has made a significant improvment, especially with our devastatingly long casting time AE's. Distortion now casts in under 2 sec (1.98 sec exactly) and Devastation casts in 3.07 secs. MUCH better then what it was before.Now to see if Alacrity of the same tier stacks with each other ... OFF TO SOH WITH ME!!! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

AziBam

03-01-2009, 01:51 AM

<cite>Dezimus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! Nice tone. All I can say is I haven't had that same problem. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Now to see if Alacrity of the same tier stacks with each other</blockquote>I'd be interested to know that too. I also wish that our void armor had a bit more alacrity on it than it does. (Essentially no raiding done on this toon.)

Wytie

03-09-2009, 12:44 PM

<cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dezimus@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Azian@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! Nice tone. All I can say is I haven't had that same problem. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Now to see if Alacrity of the same tier stacks with each other</blockquote>I'd be interested to know that too.</blockquote>It does <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

EndevorX

03-09-2009, 04:45 PM

I play a level 56 warlock on Nagafen. He is my new main and my highest level on any PvP server. I plan on leveling him up to 80 and getting back into the raid grind (EQ2 started out for me as a nice break from my EQ1 raiding but I have stopped playing EQ1 to focus on EQ2).In EQ1 I played a monk and a ranger as mains in my family style raiding guild. Both had roles other than DPS. Monk had pulling/survivablity and ranger had buffs, patch healing, and always got into doing some sort of crowd control with snares, roots, and kiting when I had to.I always loved crunching out big numbers on the DPS chart so I decided I'd give up all aspects of survivabilty/utility to excel in damage and go warlock in EQ2. I LOVE my warlock in PvP. I've had so much fun especially vs groups watching everyones HP drop and the healer scrambling to keep everyone alive (if they're lucky enough to have a healer).But one thing I never quite understood is why do I give up basically all other aspects of the game to do good DPS and I am getting out DPS'd by classes that can do much more than DPS? It just doesn't make sense to me at all. And right now I am just seeing this on a group level. What happens when I start to raid or rather try to raid? At the warlock's current state, what do I bring to the table that a raid leader would jump up and down to fit me into a raid?I love this class so much and don't have a desire to play any other class as a main. Right now I am having fun leveling up, getting AA's, and exploring new content but that doesn't last forever in the end game. The only thing that kept me playing EQ1 after I had seen most of it was knowing that my spot on a raid crew was valued by everyone. It was fun getting loot, it was fun finally beating a mob that we whiped on countless times, but what really kept me playing was knowing that my role was sought after. I don't feel very confident that this will be true as a warlock unless something is changed.

Destria

03-12-2009, 11:59 PM

biggest problem I find with warlocks(and wizards), is as has been stated casting time. Why, when we are, agian as already stated, we are a pure DPS class, quite possibly the only TRUE PURE dps classes, with no utility, those 3 little buffs with a minor damage proc for meelee really dont qualify as utility IMHO, should we have to compete with utility classes for dps. The problem with getting cast time gear, that I have found, is getting cast time, and maintaining spell crit; as it is, almost all the +cast time gear I find, rarely has spell crit; and right now, spell crit is the biggest thing we can get for our DPS output. I play a berserker, and a warlock, both lvl 80, with fabled epic, and this is very similar to the problems that berserkers have; our role in the game is very skewed, and broken. Utility classes out DPS us, with incredible ease, and bring 5 times as much to the table. A utility class should not be deprived of DPS, no class should, but they should not be able to make the pure DPS classes obsolete. Example: Chanters, massive cast speed, moderate DPS spells, but can cast 5 of those before a sorcerer gets 1 off.Why is this??? I have finally, via AA and some pretty decent gear, gotten to where I can consistently parse about 4K average ZW in a group. however, I know chanters who do 5-6K comparably geared, and comparable spell lvls, with alot more ease. I don't claim to be any expert on warlocks, I betrayed from wizard at lvl 78 and am very happy with the change, wizards, IMHO, have it worse on the DPS spectrum then we do, I see warlocks, consistently doing 2X+ DPS of a wizard with relative ease, whether its a single target or group encounter. That not comparing myth locks, but just fabled. I don't believe the warlock class is broken, however, I do believe that utility classes in general are severely OP, and that needs to be fixed. I really don't believe that a competent hard working warlock should ever be outparsed on a group/multi-mob encounter by ANY utility class. However, if sony does a "mage fix" I do hope they actually put some REAL thought into it, and keeping class individuality and identity. NOT the mass vanillafication they have going on with fighters.

Slaspen

03-27-2009, 12:26 PM

Am I the only one that still find warlocks to be a top dps class? I know, I dont post much here, usually just reads and move on.I still haven't meet any illy, coercer or sk that have beaten me in zonewide parses, only classes that I seen doing that is Brigands (well, only two Brigand players have done that tbh), Assassins and Wizards.Sure we have some broken spells that needs to be fixed, but I just removed them from my hotbar and uses the good ones we have instead./shrug

Primalooze

03-30-2009, 09:21 AM

yeah i gotta agree.... its not recovery i have a problem with... its casting speed....the problem is the way that SoE create thier multi-mob encounters.... 2 grouped mobs - mostly ^^ and ^^^ (Warlock suffer because assasins and other scout classes have such quick and fast dps that mob is half dead before my first spell even lands)3+ groups.... any thing from ^ to vvv (Warlocks suffers cos classes like Beserkers and other AOE classes have much faster cast times....)I have notice alot of my spells seem to have slower casting times compared to a year or 2 ago.... even with T2 void and all that casting increase gear it still doesnt bring us anywhere near competative in the T1 dps field...Coercers and SK's dont seem to be a problem for me.... coercers are output absolutely awsome dps.... i did crucible the other day with a coercer and he was pumping out 10k dps on group mobs.... my fully mastered warlock was hitting about 4k... but to be fair to coercers... only ever met one or two of them with the skills and equipment to do this... 80% of them concentrate on regen spec's so they cant put out this dps...the other factor that seems to affect warlock dps is resist rate.... i still???... even with very good equipment and our disruption/subjugation buff up get resisted waaaaay to often for my liking.... having an armeggedon or disruption resisted in a group fight pretty much destroys any hope of a high parse.... and i would say that in the difficult TSO zones i get resisted on about 10% of spells unless i am in a troub group and i can convince him to put his skill buff up.... you would have thought that our buff which raises these skills by 30/40 pts would actually make a big difference..... it doesnt...... i am not entirely convinced that this buff even works... or has ever worked......its a bad place for warlocks at the moment.... Zero Utility, T2 dps, cloth armor, agro issues.....

thajo

03-30-2009, 12:39 PM

Theres only 1 item I've seen in game that gives Recovery time...and its 2% recovery at that, which is crap. Pretty sure your mixing up reuse with recovery, or your just interchanging the lingo and mean to speak on reuse when you say recovery. Upbeat tempo gives 25% recovery and Time Compression gives 40%Sorcs have like no way to get more casting speed until they starting reach teir 8. Even in teir 7 as a raider cast speed gear wasn't even close to abundant. Best we can do is spec AGI line to get 14% cast speed and 12% reuse. Thats the biggest chunk you'll find until you break into 72 - 80lvls. Once your 80 you can hit up heroic instances that drop things that proc as much as 10% cast speed, or buy shard gear that sprinkles 2 - 5% cast speeds all over its items.Disruption has never made the difference SoE seems to want it to make. I think it does help a bit, although I have trouble telling if its just a placebo kind of thing in my head, when troubs do have their skill buffs up.It's not a bad place for warlocks at the moment. In TSO they have the highest potential to spike their parses pretty high, you just need much more skilled tanks or better group make-up to handle the dps they can do. If you're going to say locks are at t2 dps you should speak for yourself cause the lock in my guild definetly is not t2 dps and its boggling me to pretend he is. Me and my Warlock guildie have done runs through hollow tower where we just stack a troub/dirge/templar/illu and do the run as sorc tanks. Even when I have TC the warlock can out-do my dps since most of that zone is AoE mobs. I'll do like 9.5k and he'll be close to 11k, you locks have gross dps. On just a balls to wall massive aoe encounter the lock almost doubled my dps...and i was doing about 30k.All these references are to raid geared sorcs but, as long as your at level cap where you really start min/maxing your character you should start to meet that warlock niche. Especially when lots of group zones are flooded with 3 - 5 - 10 (some even more!) mobs and raids have traps that spawn 15 epic mobs, names like gynok that are just a few minutes straight of aoe burn and mobs that spawn adds by the dozen (literally)...this is definetly the Warlocks Heaven expansion. If you don't like them now, you'll prolly never like them.

thajo

03-30-2009, 12:42 PM

<cite>Primalooze wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have notice alot of my spells seem to have slower casting times compared to a year or 2 ago.... even with T2 void and all that casting increase gear it still doesnt bring us anywhere near competative in the T1 dps field...</blockquote>Just out of wonder do you have any backup for that at all? That statement is completly untrue, they havn't changed casting timers. So I'd say you havn't noticed spells taking longer =/ Unless you used to be spec'd AGI and have dropped that since.

Primalooze

03-31-2009, 11:32 AM

<cite>Dakkota@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Theres only 1 item I've seen in game that gives Recovery time...and its 2% recovery at that, which is crap. Pretty sure your mixing up reuse with recovery, or your just interchanging the lingo and mean to speak on reuse when you say recovery. Upbeat tempo gives 25% recovery and Time Compression gives 40%Sorcs have like no way to get more casting speed until they starting reach teir 8. Even in teir 7 as a raider cast speed gear wasn't even close to abundant. Best we can do is spec AGI line to get 14% cast speed and 12% reuse. Thats the biggest chunk you'll find until you break into 72 - 80lvls. Once your 80 you can hit up heroic instances that drop things that proc as much as 10% cast speed, or buy shard gear that sprinkles 2 - 5% cast speeds all over its items.Disruption has never made the difference SoE seems to want it to make. I think it does help a bit, although I have trouble telling if its just a placebo kind of thing in my head, when troubs do have their skill buffs up.It's not a bad place for warlocks at the moment. In TSO they have the highest potential to spike their parses pretty high, you just need much more skilled tanks or better group make-up to handle the dps they can do. If you're going to say locks are at t2 dps you should speak for yourself cause the lock in my guild definetly is not t2 dps and its boggling me to pretend he is. Me and my Warlock guildie have done runs through hollow tower where we just stack a troub/dirge/templar/illu and do the run as sorc tanks. Even when I have TC the warlock can out-do my dps since most of that zone is AoE mobs. I'll do like 9.5k and he'll be close to 11k, you locks have gross dps. On just a balls to wall massive aoe encounter the lock almost doubled my dps...and i was doing about 30k.All these references are to raid geared sorcs but, as long as your at level cap where you really start min/maxing your character you should start to meet that warlock niche. Especially when lots of group zones are flooded with 3 - 5 - 10 (some even more!) mobs and raids have traps that spawn 15 epic mobs, names like gynok that are just a few minutes straight of aoe burn and mobs that spawn adds by the dozen (literally)...this is definetly the Warlocks Heaven expansion. If you don't like them now, you'll prolly never like them.</blockquote>So basically you are saying that in order for a warlock to compete... they MUST have a troub AND a illusionist in group.... how is that a good place for warlocks to be?..... only a small minority of raid guilds can guarantee that sort of setup for thier warlocks...If you put a warlock in a less that perfect group then there an argument for leaving them out altogether.... as Scout classes, DPS specc'd tanks and other mage classes will beat them nearly every parse....As for warlock heaven.. you must be joking? its better that Rok was....and it would be fine if 30% of the mobs didnt resist when the AOE goes off.... and yeah fine... there are some (not all) TSO zones where we are good at hoovering up trash mobs... until it comes to the majority of the named and our parses drop like crazy...and now that all our nukes have reduced max targets they days of massive AOE nuke fests are long gone.... (Armegeedon =5, Upheaval = 8 cataclysm =12) only radiation and NA hit all targets and casting times for all of these are just soooooo slow its painfull... by the time we get one of these spells cast most classes have already landed 2 or 3.....and some (most) of the mobs (especially those drakes in NT) are already dead.As it stands we have 3 dumbfires that are almost useless... broodlings have nowhere near the power they used to have... Acid storm takes too long to cast and doesnt do anywhere near the dps it should... dont even get me started on netheros...ALL our AOE nukes take soooo long to cast... 80% of group fights are over before i have cycled though the the 3 big encounter nukes... and as SOE have never fixed the agro though wall situation our 2 out of encounter AOE's bring soo much pain to the group that most warlocks i have spoken too stop using them in instances completly....I just cant rationalise it.... Warlocks get no Utility (no Power regen, no useful buffs or debuffs), no surviveabilty (cloth wearers, no evac, FD etc) we are supposed to be Pure DPS....we should be able to stand on our own without requiring the perfect group to reach the dps we should be getting.... any raid leader would be out his mind to run with a good warlock when there is even an average skilled assasin available.....Its just depressing tbh... i have been raiding this lock since T5 and have seen it go from arguably the best class in game to its current state...... where i was used to be top of the parse... an i am now relegated to the 5-8th position most raids and thats with the perfect group, good equipment and fully mastered... It seems that the only locks who are happy are the ones decked out in avatar gear and the ones who havnt got a competative bone in them...

Slaspen

03-31-2009, 06:58 PM

Like Dakkota said... warlocks can kick out hell of alot of dps, even when not stacked. When we run heroic zones I rarly have a troub or illy, and my zw ends somewhere between 6-7k dps. Places like stronghold, or any other place with big encounters, I done up to 40k dps some fights.When it comes to raiding I mostly have a troub and a illy in my group. My record on a solo mob so far is almost 16k dps. My zonewide on palace trash usually lands between 11-12k.I have no avatar gear, no trak belt (Never seen it drop), no najenas ring (after over 100 runs still havn't seen it drop), other then that I am pretty good geared. I am however fully masterd with 200aa.With that said... No, I dont agree that warlocks are t2 dps. We are defenetly T1 dps.

Primalooze

04-14-2009, 05:19 PM

<cite>Rotchi wrote:</cite><blockquote>Like Dakkota said... warlocks can kick out hell of alot of dps, even when not stacked. When we run heroic zones I rarly have a troub or illy, and my zw ends somewhere between 6-7k dps. Places like stronghold, or any other place with big encounters, I done up to 40k dps some fights.When it comes to raiding I mostly have a troub and a illy in my group. My record on a solo mob so far is almost 16k dps. My zonewide on palace trash usually lands between 11-12k.I have no avatar gear, no trak belt (Never seen it drop), no najenas ring (after over 100 runs still havn't seen it drop), other then that I am pretty good geared. I am however fully masterd with 200aa.With that said... No, I dont agree that warlocks are t2 dps. We are defenetly T1 dps.</blockquote>Are you seriously saying that your assasins arn't doing 5k more than you on 95% of mobs.... probably more if they are in a dirge group.....if you are you must have discovered some form of exploit... or your assasins suck big time...!!!your setup looks pretty similar to mine and our assasins are parsing higher than any 2 mages put together....bloody hard to get our raid leader to include any non chanter mages these days.....

Eveningdress

04-14-2009, 09:16 PM

zone trash almost 16kdps, zonewide 11~12k, without trak-belt, najena ring and avatar gear?can't believe. if you got 16k dps. that's your all raid member is uber dpser. or you are in avatar raid guild.remember this. almost ppl are not uber guild.

Slaspen

04-23-2009, 06:49 AM

If you can't belive it Nerid.. just check out my gear on eq2players.And no, I am not in an "uber avatar killing guild", we raid on the weekends only, have not killed any avatars at all.Further, I would like to point out that avatar killing warlocks who managed to get some sweet gear from them, does around 17-19k zonewide on palace trash, and most of them have spiked over 20k on single mobs. So, you see, I am far behind thoose guys in my dps.. Dakkota, enlighten me about the numbers if I am wrong, I know you have a good warlock in your guild.And to answer Primalooze... no, our assassin dont do 5k more dps then me on 95% of the pulls.. if he sucks or not I can't answer, nither do I care. I use the spells and tools given to me as a warlock and focus on them, I dont care what other classes parses.

Destria

04-26-2009, 09:26 AM

As a pure DPS class, warlock is gimped, without "the right group" or "the right gear". Assassin, as a true competitor, any DECENT one non-raid will put out around 10K DPS reasonably geared. and with a mythical, I've seen good ones put out 15k+ without trying, and hitting 13K spikes on auto attack alone. So, yes, I have to agree, that as a pure DPS class, we are [Removed for Content]. Another argument for this, I consistently watch, any DECENT chanter consistently out parse warlocks, decent or even good, by 1-5K. Same with SKs, and Paladins. Sure, theres a few who have the gear and friends to get the group makeups to get the good parses, but for the majority, 4-5K is gonna be the average, with quality gear, and reasonable AA, simply because the vast majority don't or can't raid for one reason or another, and then, can't even get the groups to get the good instances for the good instance gear. Or...my number one problem~tank "I need you to stop nuking, or your just gonna keep dying"~me"I waited till the mob was at 50%"~tank"so wait longer"