Melee Crit Bonus

[rogleete]

<p>I cannot and will not give up on this one......</p><p>Where are the Melee Crit Bonus items????? Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Spell Crit Bonus on them.</p><p>As it stands there are 3 ways for melee to get 'melee crit bonus'</p><p>1. Bracelet of the Trickster (avatar drop, +5 melee crit bonus, is completely favored to casters other then the crit bonus and casters will be dropping there DKP all over this one)</p><p>2. Leggins of the Tier'Dal Champion (avatar drop, +5 melee crit bonus)</p><p>3. Six set bonus for fabled set gear</p><p>That's it!!! Those are the only options we have to get some crit bonus....now here is the problem.</p><p>Lets say your lucky enough to score the Tier'Dal Leggins (yay grats to you). But then the Chain Avatar BP drops and you win that also........uh OH now what do you do? If you take the BP and wear it with the Tier'Dal Legs, there goes your melee crit set bonus. You still get the 5 from the Legs but you lose 10.</p><p>Later down the road you score the DKP for the Bracelet and snag it up!! Yay 5 more crit bonus....So now you can either take off your Avatar Legs you worked hard for and roll with +15 melee crit bonus, or you take off your Avatar BP and now you have +20 bonus but forfeit the BP (which should have melee bonus on it)....that is in a perfect world tho.</p><p>Bottom line is most people will only be able to get to +15 melee crit bonus. And that is ONLY if your guild is killing avatars.</p><p>Grats casters though, I won't even list all the legendary and fabled NON Avatar items with spell crit bonus on them, it would fill up the whole page. I guess the same argument could be said for +heal crit bonus items, there is a lack of them as well.</p>

[DngrMou]

<p>I've never killed an avatar, or even tried.  I have a smattering of fabled stuff, and the T2 void shard armor set.  My MC is at 60%, and DA is at 22%.</p>

[GangleG]

<p><cite>DngrMouse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've never killed an avatar, or even tried.  I have a smattering of fabled stuff, and the T2 void shard armor set.  My MC is at 60%, and DA is at 22%.</p></blockquote><p>He's talking about Melee crit BONUS, not melee crit.</p>

[DngrMou]

<p><cite>GangleG wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>DngrMouse wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've never killed an avatar, or even tried.  I have a smattering of fabled stuff, and the T2 void shard armor set.  My MC is at 60%, and DA is at 22%.</p></blockquote><p>He's talking about Melee crit BONUS, not melee crit.</p></blockquote><p>I stand corrected.</p>

[Master71]

<p> a sub-legendary equiped zerk can achieve 8.5K DPS.</p><p>a legendary and fabled equiped conjurer can achieve 3.5k DPS.</p><p>So...</p><p>Who cares?</p>

[rogleete]

<p>how about some dev feedback on this from the item dev's</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>What does melee crit bonus do exactly? I assume it makes your criticals do more damage but what's the formula?</p>

[feldon30]

I'd also like to know. my understanding is that Melee Crit is your chance that you'll do max damage + 1 point on any Combat Art. Soft cap is 80%, hard cap is 200%. Other than that I have no idea what Melee Crit Bonus would do.

[Noaani]

<p>Currently, an unmodified crit has a maximum damage (pre debuffs) of max listed damage *1.3</p><p>Add on 5 crit bonus, and that maximum becomes max damage *1.35</p><p>add 10 crit bonus and it becomes max damage *1.4</p><p>The minimum damage value does not change from the max damage+1 formula that all crits have been on since TSO release (and most crits have been on since KoS).</p><p>It is a direct inverse of crit mit on gear. If a mob has a crit modifier of 50, hit crits will do max damage *1.5, adding in 20 crit mit to the player getting hit will reduce that down to max damage *1.3</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Spell Crit Bonus on them.</blockquote><p>Exagerate much?</p><p>Name one item with crit bonus that drops out of a casual heroic instance.</p><p>I'm not saying casters don't get more than melee (geting more than zero is not hard, tbh), I'm just saying that wild exagerations never help.</p>

[rogleete]

<p>there are atleast 6 items from heroic zones legendary/fabled that have spell crit bonus on them and 5 from raid zones....FACT</p><p>bottomline is there are 2 discovered items ingame with melee crit bonus, BOTH which are from Avatars only.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>there are atleast 6 items from heroic zones legendary/fabled that have spell crit bonus on them</blockquote><p>Name these items please.</p><p>As I said, its obvious that casters have more spell crit bonus than melee, but there are not that many items out there.</p><p>Incidently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p>

[rogleete]

<p>Drape of the Void-Touched  -- Legendary  -- 2 spell bonus --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Glass Wand of Emptiness  --  Fabled  --  4 spell crit bonus  --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Obsession Wristlet  --  Fabled  -  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Robe of the Undying  --  Fabled  --  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>cloak from clicky box  --  Legendary  --  2 spell crit bonus  --  Mistmoore Manor</p><p>all from instances, I can look more up if you want ---   Spell Crit: 5 / Melee Crit: 0</p>

[Wytie]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Incidently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p>

[Junaru]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>there are atleast 6 items from heroic zones legendary/fabled that have spell crit bonus on them</blockquote><p>Name these items please.</p><p>As I said, its obvious that casters have more spell crit bonus than melee, but there are not that many items out there.</p><p>Incidently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p></blockquote><p>How you are asking for NEW stuff to be added just to let melee have a stat already in game? Come on stop being ******. Melee Crit Bonus is a CURRENT stats it just isn't on as many items.</p>

[Shammydavis]

<p>Not to be mean and I will get suspended form here but dude S T F U your crying about having avatar gear but no crit bonus your kidding right take your head out of your %#@ and look at what your asking for a bonus to a toon that has it all your just a greedy little [Removed for Content] 98% of the people that play this game will never have any of the gear you do.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>there are atleast 6 items from heroic zones legendary/fabled that have spell crit bonus on them</blockquote><p>Name these items please.</p><p>As I said, its obvious that casters have more spell crit bonus than melee, but there are not that many items out there.</p><p>Incidently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p></blockquote><p>How you are asking for NEW stuff to be added just to let melee have a stat already in game? Come on stop being ******. Melee Crit Bonus is a CURRENT stats it just isn't on as many items.</p></blockquote><p>I actually agree with Nooani on this one..*faint* Allthough I wouldnt use +dps or flurry as an example, I would use spell double attack.. thats an ingame effect that not many items has huh.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sheridan-Guk]

<p>Keeping it on track here... Still looking for non-avatar drops with melee crit bonus.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Drape of the Void-Touched  -- Legendary  -- 2 spell bonus --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Glass Wand of Emptiness  --  Fabled  --  4 spell crit bonus  --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Obsession Wristlet  --  Fabled  -  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Robe of the Undying  --  Fabled  --  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>cloak from clicky box  --  Legendary  --  2 spell crit bonus  --  Mistmoore Manor</p><p>all from instances, I can look more up if you want ---   Spell Crit: 5 / Melee Crit: 0</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Do you have a link to that cloak? its the only one of the items listed I have not seen nor heard of (although I am more than aware of how to get it).</span> Never mind, I found it, its crap.</p><p>Of those listed (converting the items to scout items) 1 would be the equivlent of a bard only item with melee crit bonus, 1 would be excessivly ranger centric and one would be main hand only, requiring you to not use your epic while using it. That is basically how they stack up as mage items (chanters are the only class that would even consider wearing more than 3 of them, and as a wizard, only the cloaks are of any interest).</p><p>As I said, there are not 6 items with this effect dropping from heroic mobs (you will not find another in the game now), but there are more items with this effect on it than there are with melee crit bonus (I never denied that...). Also, you said "<em>Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Spell Crit Bonus on them</em>", but Palace of Ferzul, like it or not, is not a casual zone.</p><p>Again, I am obviously not arguing that there are items out there with melee crit bonus on them, but exagerations like that simply do not help you get your point accross to those that could make changes for you.</p><p>Another thing to consider, adding in more melee crit bonus will have the effect of increasing melee class' damage output (obviously), is that something that is needed in the game right now? (note; this is why I bought up effects such as +spell DPS, spell flurry etc).</p>

[Wytie]

<p>what about range crit bonus? Does that even exist?</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I actually agree with Nooani on this one..*faint* Allthough I wouldnt use +dps or flurry as an example, I would use spell double attack.. thats an ingame effect that not many items has huh.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote><p>Spell double attack is a bit odd. Before it is made more wide spread (Anushti Sul had 33% for 25 seconds as a miracle on test), some changes need to be made to spell stacking in order to provide an equal benefit to all mages.</p><p>Currently, if you get a spell DA on a DoT, you will get the additional hit of the DoT, but thats it. The game does not support multiple DoTs fromthe same player on the same target (and often does not support the same DoT from the same player even on different targets).</p><p>This means that DoT centric mages (warlocks and necromancers) are at an imediate disadvantage with spell DA. The ring from Hollow Tower had a 100% spell DA clicky on test, and it gave a few warlocks their first taste of spell DA. They were less than happy.</p><p>IMO a simple fix would be allowing a player to have multiples of the same effect on a single mob or encounter. Since spells all have a recast that is a part of the balancing of that spell, there is no real reason to say that this would be imbalanced. It may provide a small boost to warlocks and necromancers (necros in particular), but thats about all.</p><p>The only other way I can see to make spell DA viable to all mages equally is by making a spell DA on any DoT add the damage the DoT would have done, and frount load all of that damage to the one initial hit that a DoT spell DA gives.</p>

[Huntress Jellica]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what about range crit bonus? Does that even exist?</p></blockquote><p>Good question.. don't think I've ever seen it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what about range crit bonus? Does that even exist?</blockquote><p>Yes it does, the 6 piece set bonus for rangers from the Precision Flightrift set gives +20 ranged crit bonus.</p>

[Huntress Jellica]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what about range crit bonus? Does that even exist?</blockquote><p>Yes it does, the 6 piece set bonus for rangers from the Precision Flightrift set gives +20 ranged crit bonus.</p></blockquote><p>And is that the ONLY place it comes from? Cause I do see lots of spell crit bonus, and some melee crit bonus that isn't on set gear... but if that's the only place ranged crit bonus is, that's pretty lame.</p><p>Not that I expect you to know everything Noaani, just curious.</p>

[rogleete]

<p>I am all for ranged crit bonus and heal crit bonus........</p>

[Junaru]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Drape of the Void-Touched  -- Legendary  -- 2 spell bonus --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Glass Wand of Emptiness  --  Fabled  --  4 spell crit bonus  --  Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Obsession Wristlet  --  Fabled  -  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>Robe of the Undying  --  Fabled  --  5 spell crit bonus  -- Palace of Ferzul</p><p>cloak from clicky box  --  Legendary  --  2 spell crit bonus  --  Mistmoore Manor</p><p>all from instances, I can look more up if you want ---   Spell Crit: 5 / Melee Crit: 0</p></blockquote><p><span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Do you have a link to that cloak? its the only one of the items listed I have not seen nor heard of (although I am more than aware of how to get it).</span> Never mind, I found it, its crap.</p><p>Of those listed (converting the items to scout items) 1 would be the equivlent of a bard only item with melee crit bonus, 1 would be excessivly ranger centric and one would be main hand only, requiring you to not use your epic while using it. That is basically how they stack up as mage items (chanters are the only class that would even consider wearing more than 3 of them, and as a wizard, only the cloaks are of any interest).</p><p>As I said, there are not 6 items with this effect dropping from heroic mobs (you will not find another in the game now), but there are more items with this effect on it than there are with melee crit bonus (I never denied that...). Also, you said "<em>Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Spell Crit Bonus on them</em>", but Palace of Ferzul, like it or not, is not a casual zone.</p><p>Again, I am obviously not arguing that there are items out there with melee crit bonus on them, but exagerations like that simply do not help you get your point accross to those that could make changes for you.</p><p>Another thing to consider, adding in more melee crit bonus will have the effect of increasing melee class' damage output (obviously), is that something that is needed in the game right now? (note; this is why I bought up effects such as +spell DPS, spell flurry etc).</p></blockquote><p>Whether or not someone would wear them isn't the point. The fact is that they exists and over shadow melee crit bonus. I failt to see how asking for more items to have an existing stats is wrong?</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I cannot and will not give up on this one......</p><p>Where are the Melee Crit Bonus items????? Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Spell Crit Bonus on them.</p><p>As it stands there are 3 ways for melee to get 'melee crit bonus'</p><p>1. Bracelet of the Trickster (avatar drop, +5 melee crit bonus, is completely favored to casters other then the crit bonus and casters will be dropping there DKP all over this one)</p><p>2. Leggins of the Tier'Dal Champion (avatar drop, +5 melee crit bonus)</p><p>3. Six set bonus for fabled set gear</p><p>That's it!!! Those are the only options we have to get some crit bonus....now here is the problem.</p><p>Lets say your lucky enough to score the Tier'Dal Leggins (yay grats to you). But then the Chain Avatar BP drops and you win that also........uh OH now what do you do? If you take the BP and wear it with the Tier'Dal Legs, there goes your melee crit set bonus. You still get the 5 from the Legs but you lose 10.</p><p>Later down the road you score the DKP for the Bracelet and snag it up!! Yay 5 more crit bonus....So now you can either take off your Avatar Legs you worked hard for and roll with +15 melee crit bonus, or you take off your Avatar BP and now you have +20 bonus but forfeit the BP (which should have melee bonus on it)....that is in a perfect world tho.</p><p>Bottom line is most people will only be able to get to +15 melee crit bonus. And that is ONLY if your guild is killing avatars.</p><p>Grats casters though, I won't even list all the legendary and fabled NON Avatar items with spell crit bonus on them, it would fill up the whole page. I guess the same argument could be said for +heal crit bonus items, there is a lack of them as well.</p></blockquote><p><span >I cannot and will not give up on this one......</span></p><p>Where are the Spell Double Attack items????? Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Melee Double Attack on them.</p><p>As it stands there are 3 ways for melee to get 'spell double bonus'</p><p>1. Dragon's Marrow (Wizard mythical)</p><p>2. Reserved for when I find a second way</p><p>3. Reserved for when I find a third way</p><p>That's it!!! Those are the only options we have to get some crit bonus....now here is the problem.</p><p>Lets say your lucky enough to be a wizard (yay grats to you). But then... wait nevermind, there's no "and then".</p><p>Later down the road you do Palace of Ferzhul and an awesome Glass Wand of Emptiness drops, that's +4 spell crit bonus!!!!!!   Awesome!!!!!!....So now you can take off your mythical you worked hard for and roll with +4 spell crit bonus, but you're taking off your Mythical so now you have +0 spell double attack (which should have spell bonus on it anyways)....I saw a perfect world last night, it was a decent movie, if you like Kevin Costner.</p><p>Bottom line is most people will only be able to get one item that's spell crit bonus. And that is ONLY if your capable of equipping items flagged Wizard.</p><p>Grats meleer's though, I won't even list all the legendary and fabled NON Avatar items with double attack bonus on them, it would fill up the whole page. I guess the same argument could be said for +double heal bonus items, there is a lack of them as well.</p><p>/satire off</p>

[rogleete]

<p>your compairing melee double attack with spell double attack? are you serious... melee DA is for auto attacks, its not combart art double attack... big difference between having fission hit twice over a melee swing.</p><p>and last time I checked I never once requested to remove any spell crit bonus stats or items from the game, so I don't know why you are getting all butt-hurt over it.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span>I cannot and will not give up on this one......</span></p><p>Where are the Spell Double Attack items????? Everytime I turn around a legendary or fabled item from casual instance or raid mobs from every zone is dropping items with Melee Double Attack on them.</p><p>As it stands there are 3 ways for melee to get 'spell double bonus'</p><p>1. Dragon's Marrow (Wizard mythical)</p><p>2. Reserved for when I find a second way</p><p>3. Reserved for when I find a third way</p><p>That's it!!! Those are the only options we have to get some crit bonus....now here is the problem.</p><p>Lets say your lucky enough to be a wizard (yay grats to you). But then... wait nevermind, there's no "and then".</p><p>Later down the road you do Palace of Ferzhul and an awesome Glass Wand of Emptiness drops, that's +4 spell crit bonus!!!!!!   Awesome!!!!!!....So now you can take off your mythical you worked hard for and roll with +4 spell crit bonus, but you're taking off your Mythical so now you have +0 spell double attack (which should have spell bonus on it anyways)....I saw a perfect world last night, it was a decent movie, if you like Kevin Costner.</p><p>Bottom line is most people will only be able to get one item that's spell crit bonus. And that is ONLY if your capable of equipping items flagged Wizard.</p><p>Grats meleer's though, I won't even list all the legendary and fabled NON Avatar items with double attack bonus on them, it would fill up the whole page. I guess the same argument could be said for +double heal bonus items, there is a lack of them as well.</p><p>/satire off</p></blockquote><p>Yep, good point.  Spell double attack does exist already, but on very few items.</p><p>But, let's face it - there's actually a HUGE chasm in the number of AAs/items/etc with melee double attack vs the number with spell double attack.  MUCH bigger difference between the two than there is between spell crit bonus and melee crit bonus availability.  The guy says he could fill up the page, but then when pressed about it he comes up with 5 items with it, and 4 of those are all in the hardest rating of dungeon.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>your compairing melee double attack with spell double attack? are you serious... melee DA is for auto attacks, its not combart art double attack... big difference between having fission hit twice over a melee swing.</p></blockquote><p>If you believe an item effect should be rarer because it's more powerful, doesn't that sound like a plausible reason for less melee crit bonus items (which affects autoattack AND combat arts) than spell crit bonus items which affect only ONE thing (spells) as well?</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>your compairing melee double attack with spell double attack? are you serious... melee DA is for auto attacks, its not combart art double attack... big difference between having fission hit twice over a melee swing.</blockquote><p>True, there is a big difference between an auto attack hitting twice and fission hitting twice.</p><p>But... did you bother to look at the mechanics behind spell double attack? give 100% DA to a monk, and they will gain an additional ~60% DPS from if they had 0 % DA (approximatly doubles damage from auto attacks). Give 100% spell DA to a wizard and they will gain about an additional ~80% DPS (doubles damage from direct damage spells, gives a little extra on DoTs, does nothing for procs). Give 100% spell DA to a warlock and it would give them ~60% extra DPS (more DoTs, which spell DA is not good with). Give 100% spell DA to a necromancer and they get an additional ~ 35% DPS (doesn't affect pets, lots of DoTs).</p><p>For all mage classes other than wizards, spell DA will give a percentage based increase in damage that is on par with or less than the increase in damage a monk gains via DA, or a ranger gains via ranged DA, and wizards are only slightly ahead.</p><p>Personally, I would only argue for powerful effects to be added to equipment if the class that is going to gain from those effects are lacking in DPS. Scouts are currently not lacking in DPS, even when compred to a mage with all of that crit bonus gear (actually, I would go as far as saying ESPECIALLY against a mage equipped with it, as most of it is a downgrade to what they could easily get), so I don't consider it worth asking for this effect to be placed on items, at least not without equally powerful effects also being added to some mage equipment (spell DA and spell flurry are actually my wee pet effects that I want to see added to all sorts of gear, in all sorts of ways).</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Detor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>your compairing melee double attack with spell double attack? are you serious... melee DA is for auto attacks, its not combart art double attack... big difference between having fission hit twice over a melee swing.</p></blockquote><p>If you believe an item effect should be rarer because it's more powerful, doesn't that sound like a plausible reason for less melee crit bonus items (which affects autoattack AND combat arts) than spell crit bonus items which affect only ONE thing (spells) as well?</p></blockquote><p>TBH I am picturing a rouge or assassin with 20%+ crit bonus being rediculously overpowered in the current game, it would mean that all melee attacks that crit (most of them) can deal up to max damage *1.5, as can all auto attack swings. Even in a guild with casters wearing avatar loot, I can see that being overpowered.</p>

[Chat]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><p>idently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p></blockquote><p>Get a dps mod item, turn your auto attack on.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Judise wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>rogleete wrote:</cite></p><p>idently, I would love an effect similar to +DPS that melee get (don't say +spell damage, as that is obviously akin to +CA damage)... or spell flurry attacks... can we add these in at the same time as adding in more melee crit bonus items?</p></blockquote><p>Get a dps mod item, turn your auto attack on.</p></blockquote><p>Get a spell crit bonus item, equip procs.</p>