Reinforced Void Brute Shackle

[Zizzu]

<p>Any chance this rare item from Varsoon can have some ranged crit or ranged double attack? I know there was some upgrades to several Fabled geared on test and I was wondering if this was touched? It has +4 melee crit and I figured it was for melee types (including rangers).</p><p><img src="http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww273/Zizzu10/ReinforcedVoidBruteShackle.jpg" /></p>

[Paikis]

<p>/sigh, here we go again.</p><p>While we're at it, I'd like some Spell Crit added because I'm a troub and this was clearly designed for a melee classes (troubador)</p>

[hellfire]

<p>Yes put +spell crit on it since the  proc says any attack so obviously they just  forgot to place tha +spell crit.......thanks.</p>

[Zizzu]

<p><cite>Paikis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>/sigh, here we go again.</p><p>While we're at it, I'd like some Spell Crit added because I'm a troub and this was clearly designed for a melee classes (troubador)</p></blockquote><p>/sigh, here we go again.</p><p>Sorry to break your bubble, but if you want to cry about it, then I suggest doing a seperate post and why it should have spell crit. I have a good beef since the ranger class does get bypassed when items like this are made. Having melee crit suggest it's for scouts and last time I check....ranger are scouts also. What I'm asking is not unreasonable.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>Rangers are DPS scouts troubs are not.  But spell crit would be fine for me since that helps all scouts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Slowin]

<p>Get the one with spell crit on it then -- it does exist. Whats missing is a decent item for healers.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Rangers are DPS scouts troubs are not.  But spell crit would be fine for me since that helps all scouts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Also items with spell crit aren't really all that rare.  Items with Ranged crit are.  There is a logic to it, if only one class is reliant on such a mechanic it will sometimes be over looked.  Thing is though since one class is COMPLETELY reliant on it, it shouldn't be over looked else this class gets left behind to an extent due to crappy itemization.  I do have to say though since TSO came out I am seeing more legendary items drop with ranged crit on it.  Still wondering why you will see +2 ranged crit/da and +4 melee crit/da on the same item but well if that wasn't there Asassins would have to work as hard as rangers to do well on the parse wouldn't they <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Natthan]

<p>Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</p>

[Noob1974]

<p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</p></blockquote><p>          I call that bs, do you know that assasins and brawler can hit equally hard , because they can be on 0.5 secs timer while the bow is on a 4 secs timer for AAs. Secondary there are Items that are labeled All SCOUTS like Essence of Mastery and that  only have melee crit.</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>Just get the other wrist and complete the set and you will have your spell crit and the set bonus</p>

[Huntress Jellica]

<p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, and a good majority of the items with RDA and RC are crap. Crappy weapons with no STR/INT, hoods with huge amounts of STA/WIS but very little STR/INT, bows.. that don't even come close to equaling the fabled epic. Sure not everyone has their epic, but it's not really that hard to get. And then of course there's that whole "Well, let's put +4 Crit, +2 Ranged Crit, and +4 Double Attack on this bracelet, and that cloak, and that pair of gloves..." mentality. I've never once since an item with +4 Ranged Crit, +2 Crit, and +4 Ranged Double Attack, or something similar, have you? Doubtful. Melee stats are always represented better than ranged stats.</p><p>Also, ranged attacks do hit for more, BUT melee goes 4 times more often. Assassins (and other melee people duel wielding) swing their weapons about 3-4 times for each ranged auto attack rangers get. So your argument doesn't really work here, sorry.</p>

[Aule]

I'm not really sure why they even separated melee and ranged into separately modified effects. Kind of like how the easy fix for summoners would be to have the summoner's spell mod, crit, reuse, etc all apply to the pet, it seems like the easy fix is to just remove ranged crit and ranged da from everything, and then have melee crit and double attack apply to both. From an itemization headache point of view, you'd think the least amount of work would win. Instead we have these complex attempts to hit the nail on the head with a hammer thrown from across the room. Why not just walk up and hit it once and be done with it?

[Zizzu]

<p><cite>Sioned@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just get the other wrist and complete the set and you will have your spell crit and the set bonus</p></blockquote><p>Lol. The other item is great for those classes.</p><p>It's like certain instances are meaningless to rangers because the end boss drops nothing worthwhile for rangers. Palace is one of these instances and it's a shame. If this can be changed, then at least we have an item that we can look forward to.</p>

[Natthan]

<p><cite>Noob1974 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</p></blockquote><p>          I call that bs, do you know that assasins and brawler can hit equally hard , because they can be on 0.5 secs timer while the bow is on a 4 secs timer for AAs. Secondary there are Items that are labeled All SCOUTS like Essence of Mastery and that  only have melee crit.</p></blockquote><p>Find me a brawler hitting for 13k auto attacks</p>

[Kunaak]

<p><strong>you dont need every melee item available to be available to every class.</strong></p><p><strong>rangers have thier own gear to look for, tanks have different gear they look for. and so on...</strong></p><p>the more you try to make every item for every class, the harder it is for anyone to ever get it.</p><p>find ranger gear, and go hunt it down. theres lots of zones, where I as a tank, know theres nothing in that zone for me, like najenas hollow tower has a ton of mage items, no real "must have" tank item... or even "kinda want" item. yet I'll still tank there knowing theres not much in it for me, even when a exquisite chest drops.</p><p>if they start doing this, I can link about 20 scout items off the top of my head, that I'd love to be able to use as a tank... but can't. like the Treasure Seekers Band outta PR, which is how old? a year and a half? if I could, I'd use that thing for sure. but it was designed for scouts. how many tanks are making threads saying it should be made for tanks to use too?? theres a good 20 items like that, that I can find, old an new.</p><p>but they are scout items. so I keep my eye out for tank gear I can actually use, and leave the items intended to be scout items alone.</p><p>instead of trying to bend the game to fit your needs, search for items appropriate to your class, and start running those zones.</p><p>even this particular item here, its a set piece. the second piece in this set is clearly designed for mages/crusaders. but I dont see tanks looking to change the set to make it more tank friendly.... </p>

[Zizzu]

<p><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>you dont need every melee item available to be available to every class.</strong></p><p><strong>rangers have thier own gear to look for, tanks have different gear they look for. and so on...</strong></p><p>the more you try to make every item for every class, the harder it is for anyone to ever get it.</p><p>find ranger gear, and go hunt it down. theres lots of zones, where I as a tank, know theres nothing in that zone for me, like najenas hollow tower has a ton of mage items, no real "must have" tank item... or even "kinda want" item. yet I'll still tank there knowing theres not much in it for me, even when a exquisite chest drops.</p><p>if they start doing this, I can link about 20 scout items off the top of my head, that I'd love to be able to use as a tank... but can't. like the Treasure Seekers Band outta PR, which is how old? a year and a half? if I could, I'd use that thing for sure. but it was designed for scouts. how many tanks are making threads saying it should be made for tanks to use too?? theres a good 20 items like that, that I can find, old an new.</p><p>but they are scout items. so I keep my eye out for tank gear I can actually use, and leave the items intended to be scout items alone.</p><p>instead of trying to bend the game to fit your needs, search for items appropriate to your class, and start running those zones.</p><p>even this particular item here, its a set piece. the second piece in this set is clearly designed for mages/crusaders. but I dont see tanks looking to change the set to make it more tank friendly.... </p></blockquote><p>Let me educate you on why I am bringing this up. The reason for the complaint is that there are zero items from the end boss that rangers would take. Why have a +4 melee crit and not +4 ranger crit?? No doubt this item is made for scouts and rangers are still in that class. This zone has some nice drops for many classes, but not one for rangers.</p>

[Zizzu]

<p>Still standing by my complaint. Varsoon has zero drops for rangers and I'm hoping this item can be changed in some form.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Natthan]

<p>There still isn't a chain equivilant of Ethereal Mist Gauntlets and I think there should be one, Thanks! Not every mob will drop items of equal strength for every class, Its a fact of the game.</p>

[Noob1974]

<p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noob1974 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</p></blockquote><p>          I call that bs, do you know that assasins and brawler can hit equally hard , because they can be on 0.5 secs timer while the bow is on a 4 secs timer for AAs. Secondary there are Items that are labeled All SCOUTS like Essence of Mastery and that  only have melee crit.</p></blockquote><p>Find me a brawler hitting for 13k auto attacks</p></blockquote><p>         You dont get it do you. The 13k AAs, you referring to, hitting every 4-5 secs,depending on your haste/delay and thats only ONE WEAPON !!!!!! A Brawler can hit 2-3 times in the same time with TWO Weapons. So next time you throw some numbers in the room get the mechanics right.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There still isn't a chain equivilant of Ethereal Mist Gauntlets and I think there should be one, Thanks! Not every mob will drop items of equal strength for every class, Its a fact of the game.</p></blockquote><p>This isn't about a certain item with a nifty proc.  This is about the fact that Rangers barely use melee crit and don't use melee DA at all.  Think about it this way, imagine that heal crit didn't affect wards, that they were only affected by a new stat called ward crit.  Now imagine that ward crit is 5 times harder to get then heal crit and, then when you find it, it is in lesser ammounts then equivalent items with heal crit.  Then you will be in the rangers position.</p>

[Natthan]

<p>I have played almost every class in this game in T8, Rangers just love to whine TBH. They are sad that assassins are better DPS :-S</p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><p>This isn't about a certain item with a nifty proc.  This is about the fact that Rangers barely use melee crit and don't use melee DA at all.  Think about it this way, imagine that heal crit didn't affect wards, that they were only affected by a new stat called ward crit.  Now imagine that ward crit is 5 times harder to get then heal crit and, then when you find it, it is in lesser ammounts then equivalent items with heal crit.  Then you will be in the rangers position.</p></blockquote><p>At least know what your talking about when using referances.</p><p>When you crit a ward it is a pre-decided crit based on the value of your ward before any bonuses are added.</p><p>If ward crit and range crit worked the same way you would lose approx 2k+ dps. "if you dont suck"</p><p>just sayin.</p>

[glowsintheda]

<p>The actual mechanics of how wards crit are unimportant for the discussion.  It was an example to illustrate how makeing stats that only one class relys on and then making that stat harder to come by then the coresponding stat that their counterpart uses is inheriently unfair.  T2 voidshard armor and antonias/overlords cloaks are prime examples, and those are just of items that have ranged stats on them, there are a ton of other scout items that are useless to rangers due to lack of ranged stats(still waiting on the survival accord charm with ranged stats too).  Add in the fact that almost all buffs that affect both ranged and melee, the ranged bonus is 2/3-3/4 of the melee bonus and it becomes obvious that itemization is heavily biased against rangers.  It has gotten better in TSO, but it is still not nearly balanced.</p>

[Natthan]

<p><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The actual mechanics of how wards crit are unimportant for the discussion.  It was an example to illustrate how makeing stats that only one class relys on and then making that stat harder to come by then the coresponding stat that their counterpart uses is inheriently unfair.  T2 voidshard armor and antonias/overlords cloaks are prime examples, and those are just of items that have ranged stats on them, there are a ton of other scout items that are useless to rangers due to lack of ranged stats(still waiting on the survival accord charm with ranged stats too).  Add in the fact that almost all buffs that affect both ranged and melee, the ranged bonus is 2/3-3/4 of the melee bonus and it becomes obvious that itemization is heavily biased against rangers.  It has gotten better in TSO, but it is still not nearly balanced.</p></blockquote><p>As I said before:</p><p><span >Ranged Auto attack hits way harder and if stats were = to the melee version it would be unbalanced, When you start adding Flurry to assassins though thats OP. I have also seen a TON of items w/ ranged crit and DA on them, I don't know what you guys are talking about, but someone needs a reason to complain.</span></p>

[jam3]

<p>go get the wrist from tangrin</p><p>go get the wrist from palace of the ancient one</p><p>go get one fo the TWO wrists from inner stronghold</p><p>sorry theres no useful items for you out of varsoon, theres 4 items in the same slot.</p>

[Noob1974]

<p><cite>glowsinthedark wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Natthan@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There still isn't a chain equivilant of Ethereal Mist Gauntlets and I think there should be one, Thanks! Not every mob will drop items of equal strength for every class, Its a fact of the game.</p></blockquote><p>This isn't about a certain item with a nifty proc.  This is about the fact that Rangers barely use melee crit and don't use melee DA at all.  Think about it this way, imagine that heal crit didn't affect wards, that they were only affected by a new stat called ward crit.  Now imagine that ward crit is 5 times harder to get then heal crit and, then when you find it, it is in lesser ammounts then equivalent items with heal crit.  Then you will be in the rangers position.</p></blockquote><p>          Melee Crit is for rangers to some extend useful !!!! Look in the TSO Tree and see how much our Melee got updated, you can crit for 1.5 on some of the melee cas. 1/3 of your CAs in raid should be melee  anyways to max your dps. Melee DA has NO use at all to a ranger as we dont Melee AA.Like i said before some fabled Charm like " Essence of Mastery" says all Scouts but has only 3% Melee Crit. that needs to look at, or the fact that there are only 2 items in Tomb of the Mad Crusader with ranged boni but alot more with melee only boni.</p>