Uber Paladin Stats

[Hudd]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small;"><p>Ok, I got this idea from Elquinjena (a ranger on Antonia Bayle) while listening to Online Gaming Radio. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. I looked at the top 100 Paladins in several stats available on Players. These are the folks, in theory, that are the top of the heap because they have proved it. These are the Uber Paladins.</p><p>First I chose Power and Health. These seemed to go hand-in-hand. If a Paladin was on one list, good chances he was on the other. To help narrow the list down, I also chose Highest Average Resists and for extra proof that these folks knew what they were doing, I threw in the Highest Number of NPC Kills. I thought about Kill vs. Death ratio, but noticed a lot of low levels were high on that list. I took into account that all of the stats could just be a reflection of gear, and NPC kills means you get to play a lot, but I was looking for the places top Paladins invested in, be it gear or achievement lines. Using all four stats, I narrowed my list down to 4 Paladins. These are the ones who I considered when I looked for the Best of the Best. The Uber Paladins are:</p><p><strong>Akada of Innovation</strong></p><p>Power: 7,882 Health: 14,697 Resists: 8,972 NPCs Killed: 292,139</p><p><strong>Factor of Innovation</strong></p><p>Power: 7,679 Health: 14,700 Resists: 8,644 NPCs Killed: 331,635</p><p>STR: 887</p><p>STA: 949</p><p><strong>Illmedication of The Bazaar</strong></p><p>Power: 7,576 Health: 13,736 Resists: 9,093 NPCs Killed: 362,919</p><p>STR: 789</p><p>AGI: 622</p><p>STA: 938</p><p><strong>Obsidian of Runnyeye</strong></p><p>Power: 7,723 Health: 14,825 Resists: 9,935 NPCs Killed: 244,804</p><p>STR: 762</p><p>STA: 1,018</p><p>Then I looked at the stats for each on these Paladins, the first, Akada, denied all access. The second, Factor, showed basic stats, but denied the Achievement trees. That left me with the last two, Illmedication and Obsidian. I could access all their stats and found that they had chosen two slightly different paths.</p></span><strong><p>Basic Stats:</p></strong><span style="font-size: x-small;"><p>Factor of Innovation = STR: 887 AGI: 534 STA: 949 INT: 510 WIS: 270</p><p>Illmedication of The Bazaar = STR: 789 AGI: 622 STA: 938 INT: 266 WIS: 321</p><p>Obsidian of Runnyeye = STR: 762 AGI: 494 STA: 1,018 INT: 393 WIS: 342</p><p>When it comes to the stats a basic Paladin should try to raise, it seems that STR and STA are what to go for. Wiser minds than mine can tell you why, but the numbers seem to pan out, successful Paladins increase their Strength and Stamina. When looking for equipment, or when offered opportunities to increase stats, go for them first.</p></span><strong><p>Crusader Achievement Lines</p></strong><span style="font-size: x-small;"><p>Illmedication followed the STR, STA and INT lines while Obsidian followed the STR, WIS and INT lines. Still this indicated that the STR and INT lines are worth looking into. Posts on the EQ2 Paladin forum seem to suggest that the STR, STA and INT lines are the basic stats for Paladins. Yet the numbers are about equal and they chose different lines to follow. Does this indicate that the STR and INT lines are the most useful and the others are not? It seems to me that if you are a <70 Paladin with only 50 points to spend, I’d put them in the STR and INT lines.</p><p>Forum Suggestion STR: 44882 STA: 44882 INT: 44810</p><p>Illmedication STR: 56820 STA: 44681 INT: 44861</p><p>Obsidian STR: 44881 WIS: 44630 INT: 44881</p></span><strong><p>Paladin Achievement Lines</p></strong><span style="font-size: x-small;"><p>Illmedication Hero: 55551 Wraths: 3555100 Support: 054000 Healing: 031000</p><p><p>Obsidian Hero: 55551 Wraths: 0555541 Support: 000000 Healing: 354500</p></p><p>The Forums also suggest the Hero and Wrath lines, so a <70 Paladin should think about those first. But the Forums also consider the Support line important, at least up to the Cure spell, where neither of our uber Paladins put much into. At least Obsidian considered the Healing line to be important. The Forums seemed to indicate that a Paladin that put investment into Healing was resigned to Off Tank/Spare Healer. I think Obsidian would disagree.</p><font size="2"></font></span></p><p><strong><p>Shadows Achievement Lines</p></strong><span style="font-size: x-small;"><p><strong>General </strong>Illmedication (10) Obsidian (10) Forums</p><p>Hearty Constitution 5/5 5/5 Yes</p><p>Enhanced Minds 5/5 0/0 Yes</p><p>Swift Strides 0/0 5/5 No</p><p><strong>Fighter </strong>Illmedication (19) Obsidian (11) Forums</p><p>Consumate Defender 5/5 0/0 Yes</p><p>Rescue 5/5 5/5 No</p><p>Offensive Stance 3/5 0/0 No</p><p>Battle Hardening 5/5 5/5 Yes</p><p>Sneering Assault 1/1 1/1 Yes</p><p><strong>Crusader </strong>Illmedication (16) Obsidian (17) Forums</p><p>Gallantry 5/5 5/5 Yes</p><p>Knight’s Stance 5/5 5/5</p><p>Valor in Battle 1/5 0/0</p><p>Phalanx 5/5 5/5 Yes</p><p>Aura of the Crusader 1/1 1/1</p><p><strong>Paladin </strong>Illmedication (14) Obsidian (19) Forums</p><p>Forced Following 0/0 5/5</p><p>Blessed Warding 5/5 5/5 Yes</p><p>Knight’s Counter 5/5 5/5</p><p>Stonewall 1/1 1/1</p><p>Faithful Cry 1/1 1/1 Yes</p><p>This is just another way to look at numbers. I invite disscusion.</p></span></p>

[Boli32]

<p>Eq2player stats are USELESS... I have in my time been top health on runneyeye... and the next day been 83rd or soemthing stupid; it all depends what time you logged off what you were wearing, if you had a potion going or whatever.</p><p>If you really want to have a "top stats" or whatever... its best just to ask people what are theirt solo buffed stats and provide a screensahot as evidence; I have "tank gear" and "dps gear" and if I'm snapped shotted in my dps gear I have VASTLY different stats than my tank gear.</p>

[Hudd]

<p>Well, that is true Boli, but I'm looking for broad trends.  There are as many opinions as players, and each is valid to some extent.  I'm just trying to figure out what makes the best use of AA's.  Play style will also determine where to put the extra points. I don't use a sheild, so I won't invest in sheild AA's.  Now if everyone of the good/successful Paladins choses to invest in STR and STA, then maybe I should consider that, but I see a lot of folks post their stats with no real purpose behind the decisions.  I thought I'd put in something, considering the source and how I looked at it, so folks could decide for themselves.</p>

[oldironballs]

<p>To be honest though I think their is no relationship at all between a players stats and his abilities. Success in raiding is determined by a raid foce, not one or two players within the raid. Its how they work together (and particularly how the raid leader co-ordinates them) that determines whether they are "good" or not. Same thing applies to a group (although better players do tend to be drawn together in the group setting i find). Stats are pre-determined by sony, you can't say "oh I'd like a little more stamina on my VP class set BP and can you change that wisdom on the forearms to intelligence". In terms of raw stats what makes raid armour better is the direct health contribution because once you hit 900-1000 stamina the amount of health u get from further increases might as well be 0. And of course the mitigation (with new sets (crit mit) etc etc). Look I commend you for trying something original but posting something like this in the paladin forums of all places is just going to get people riled up. Good gear = good stats which means your a top end raider its that simple, nothing more nothing less. Most of the time people get into those positions through who they know, not how good they are (provided they can hold a stick and whack stuff with it). Provided they aren't a nub then the position becomes permanent and hey presto 6 months later you have one of the best paladins in the game (or not). You can't compare avatar equipped paladins with paladins equipped from say TSO instances. THat would be like a doberman getting in a fight with a poodle then claiming he won cause he was "more skillfull".</p>

[Boli32]

<p>Stats *are* important; but not as important as people think - you can have the gear have the stats but if you don't have the skill you will fall down. likewise if you have the skill but wear *anything* with no reguard for stats you'll be FAR less effective in tanking and dps.</p><p>Part of the skill is choosing the right gear for the job; and collecting the right gear to do the job. Sure the higher the raid guild you have access to the betetr gear but that doesn't mean that anyone below avatar geared is crap and the "best" paladins are only from ones of avatar killing guilds. - I have known a few people in avatar killing guilds who have no real concept on gearing up right. However stats on the whole tend to show a inkling of understanding on the class; reguardless of what tier you raid / group at the gear you choose and the AA lines you choose are a reflection of what you are capable of. i.e. choosing the best out of what you have available to you.</p><p>So I won't say stats are "useless" just that using eq2 players to determine those stats is a completly warped way of looking at things as it simply takes a snapshot of what you were at when you logged off or LDed... even if you were tryign a weird spec or in your dps gear that'#s how the "world" will view you untill you log in and change it again.</p><p>I think what you are more looking at is something akin to this old thread; done in EoF.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=350967" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=350967</a></p>

[Hudd]

<p>Thanks Boli! That is a great thread with lots of good info.</p>

[Caetrel]

<p>Obsidian STR: 44881 WIS: 44630 INT: 44881</p><p><strong>WIS: 44630 = Teh Meaning of Life</strong></p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Hudd wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't use a sheild, so I won't invest in sheild AA's.</p></blockquote><p>First mistake. </p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hudd wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't use a sheild, so I won't invest in sheild AA's.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>ok, im not calling you stupid, im calling your action stupid so ill go over it with you.</p><p>assuming you dont raid, the best 2 hander your gonna get i beileve has roughly a 118 rating, and a 6 second delay (assuming once again u use a two hander for dps) the best (i looked at your profile seeing your 67 which makes alot more sence as its simply ignorance and not stupidity) the best non rating one hander (well technically their are better out their but i will use this one as its fairly easily atainable) is your epic which is a 95.5 rating 6 second delay. now im pulling assumptions again but its all i really have to go buy so heres the points</p><p>1. the only real excuse for you useing a two hander at your level is that you exculsivly solo which isnt really a good enough reason on its own ill explain why</p><p>the diffrence even at 80 between a one hander and two hander will be a max of 300 dps and an average of about 100 at 80 your average run of the mill paladin does about 1700 with a 1 hander (will call 1 hander a)  so we will go high and say with a 2 hander (will call 2 hander a)  you do 2k. ( both 5 second delay weopons for easy math)</p><p>here is the stats for both weopons these are hypothetical stats made for easy math</p><p>2hander</p><p>dr. 80-600=136 dr (this is far better then the best 2 hander in game really)</p><p>1hander</p><p>50-450=100 dr(good 1 hander)</p><p>we are also going to assume you hit for max damage every time once again easy math. a decent sheild at 80 will add a minimum of 20% avoidance so we are going to assume without a sehild you have 30% with one you have 50% we are also going to assume you have 10,000 hp ( easy math) with 0% avoidance the mob does 1000 dps so this is how it works )this is also assuming you have 1 str as i dont want to be up all night trying to figuer our the formula on how str effects weopon damage)</p><p>it will take you 14 seconds to die useing the two hander (assuming no healing) without a one hander and 30% avoidance (mob doing 700 dps) swinging every 5 second you do 1200 damage  (1800 if u wanna cheat and give it 15 seconds) if only your weopon being used,</p><p>with the one hander it will take you 20 seconds assuming useing the one hander you have done 1800 damage in 20 seconds with 50% avoidance, now heres the kicker if you draw in CAs and spells you have acually more time to cast them (20 seconds rather then 15) and have put out more damage with the one hander then you have with the 2 hander before your death.</p><p>2. with tso aas 2 handers are acually useless, at i beileve its either 130 or 150 aa you get acess to the crusader line in tso, knights stance which makes your weopons hit 25% harder if you have a sheild equipped with this aa you now are dealing with one handers being better then 2 handers useing acual dr from the 2 best non raiding weopons 1 hander and two hander</p><p>95.5 (with knights stance 119.5 rating)</p><p>and 118.5 (with knights stance still 118.5)</p><p>the one hander will do more dps and greatly increase survivability useig the two best raiding weopons in game</p><p>120.9 (151.1)</p><p>(avatar of war ax i think had a 140 rating didnt it?) 140.5 two hander is quite a bit behind.</p><p>3. and if you do group stuff a two hander will more then likly get you yelled at by healers then anything else.</p><p>4. you gain more stats from a 1 hander and sheild then just a 2 hander.</p><p>as said dont take this as an insult im not insulting you, your just ignorant of the way game mechanics work, ignorance has a cure called knowlage, now stupididy well, you cant fix stupid.</p><p>as far as aas go all paladins will agree on a couple major lines,</p><p>wrath hero str and sta, from their on people mix it up id say the most common is full str full sta int 4-4-8 full wrath full hero and a few in support for the proc increases or a couple in healing for the heal and ward recast. and tso many are still juggling with but knights stance is a must.after about 60 aa in kos and eof trees people vary .</p><p>skill also has alot to do with it and gear/= skill gear can = survivability but not on the parse andnot if you dont know how to gear yourself correctly, i normally get 3k zws roughly  i know a better geared paladin that cant parse 2k and i know why becuase his spell order is borked and he button mashes, under the same token i knew an sk who in equal gear ( and this was in rok when sks were kinda [Removed for Content]) could out parse me most of the time and out tank me with his eyes closed, eq2 players isnt compleatly useless as raiders genrally have better knowlage of the class but gear isnt he only thing to take into account</p>

[Hudd]

<p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hudd wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't use a sheild, so I won't invest in sheild AA's.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>ok, im not calling you stupid, im calling your action stupid so ill go over it with you.</p></blockquote><p>I appreciate your taking the time to help me, but that isn't what I really wanted when I made this thread. I was looking at what I thought were successful Paladins to see if there was a common AA/Stat line up that spelled success.  As it is, I didn't find anything outstanding, but did get a good idea or two.</p><p>As for my fighting style, I have yet to find a two handed weapon that even came close to a single hand + sheild.  You are totally correct.  I chose two handed for Role Play reasons (Antionia Bayle = RP). I have now turned my focus on to the new Fighter change about to happen, and once again, you are correct, it looks like I'll have a choice, RP or be a viable tank. I will HAVE to use a sheild and sword, or only get pity groups.</p><p>Once the changes go online, I will have to change with them, and I will take your suggestions to heart. As you also mention, gear and spell order are important, gear seeming to be the best/easiest to invest in.</p><p>Your summation at the end agreed with my research, Hero and Wrath = full, STR = full, after that I saw differances. Instead of STA, both Paladins chose INT 4-4-8, not too far differant from your suggestion, but only one of them went STA, the other WIS.  Support and Healing were divide for the third line selected under the Paladin tree.</p>

[Boli32]

<p>.. and as I said earlier.. the fact eq2player snapshot paladins using that spec at that time... it is and could well be extrmely different to what they use all the time.</p><p>Basing your entire argument on eq2players stats is flawed from the start especially with such a small sample of people you are choosing from... if you want to know what AA specs people are using.. just ask <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Hudd wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>therodge wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hudd wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't use a sheild, so I won't invest in sheild AA's.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>ok, im not calling you stupid, im calling your action stupid so ill go over it with you.</p></blockquote><p>I appreciate your taking the time to help me, but that isn't what I really wanted when I made this thread. I was looking at what I thought were successful Paladins to see if there was a common AA/Stat line up that spelled success.  As it is, I didn't find anything outstanding, but did get a good idea or two.</p><p>As for my fighting style, I have yet to find a two handed weapon that even came close to a single hand + sheild.  You are totally correct.  I chose two handed for Role Play reasons (Antionia Bayle = RP). I have now turned my focus on to the new Fighter change about to happen, and once again, you are correct, it looks like I'll have a choice, RP or be a viable tank. I will HAVE to use a sheild and sword, or only get pity groups.</p><p>Once the changes go online, I will have to change with them, and I will take your suggestions to heart. As you also mention, gear and spell order are important, gear seeming to be the best/easiest to invest in.</p><p>Your summation at the end agreed with my research, Hero and Wrath = full, STR = full, after that I saw differances. Instead of STA, both Paladins chose INT 4-4-8, not too far differant from your suggestion, but only one of them went STA, the other WIS.  Support and Healing were divide for the third line selected under the Paladin tree.</p></blockquote><p>Rp honestly is a good reason, once you hit 80 you can sit around in qh or your guild hall all day wearing one, rofl thats what i do, collect the things honestly just not really worth useing</p>