Loss of progression challennge based play [Archive]

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Lord Hackenslash

01-30-2009, 06:48 PM

I have been trying to sum up my concern with the proposed changes for LU51 to the core of tanking and I feel that there are some benefits to be had, the issues that brought them about are not what they may seem. When new content is released and the bar of difficulty is raised with the new content, Player need to approach it with caution and respect as they are not prepared for the challenges ahead. For a tank this means Defensive Stance, Shield and a full approach to staying alive. As they acquire gear and skill, that will compensate somewhat for the increased challenge level and relax the pressure on the group. Eventually when the strats are worked out and the group make-ups are perfect players will either to raise their own challenge or to simply not spend as much time on the same encounters push to go more offensive and trade higher defense for that increase. The changes to the offensive stance take away this player initiated progression forcing a linear approach to tanking. Tanking will become easier and easier as the player’s defense increased with gear and experience and frankly it will become boring. I can speak of this from both the perspective of a tank and of a healer. As a healer, if the tank is too defensive it can be a very boring game. Watching the tank stay at 100% because I cast 2 spells even as I DPS is just boring. Currently when I am spending more time DPSing than healing I will ask the tank to go more offensive so that I feel like I have something to do. But no more with offensive stance designed to lose aggro I am forced to sit and press 4 buttons over and over waiting for something to hurt the tank. Now I am not saying “don’t lower tank DPS”, If that is what you want to do then fine but the real issue is lowering Tank aggro. The changes to defensive stance are ok, I am not thrilled with them as I already use defensive stance on raid encounters that hold any challenge you are increasing my survivability with the changes so I really can’t complain. However making offensive stance not reliable for holding aggro limits our choice in how we tank. Taking a full t2 shard gear equipped tank into an easy instance like Scion of Ice, there is little reason that a similarly equipped group should need to play it safe. Regardless of the groups abilities and the difficulty of the challenges, the tank needs to stay in defensive stance to hold aggro. What really needs to happen is leave the aggro generation of offensive stance alone. ( if you need to adjust the damage that’s up to you) and then make defensive a preferred stance for tanking but not the only choice. In its current state I can see many good things about defensive stance and it will probably be used a lot more by my-self but frankly in easy content as it is it will be worse than the old amends where I can literally just hit auto attack and then sit back and watch the fight cause my stance does all the work I used to have to do. I don’t play a tank because I am lazy. I want a dynamic experience that requires me to be alert and adjust my play-style to the groups I join and the challenges I face. I don’t play a healer because I want to sit back and press 2 buttons at the beginning of a fight. I want my skill as a healer to allow for players to push their boundaries and be ready to catch them when they cross the threshold of aggro. Please leave some choice in the game and allow player to set their own challenges. Thank you.

Herme

01-30-2009, 07:15 PM

Take a trio or group of 4 through the zone. Voila! More challenge.

Aule

01-30-2009, 07:33 PM

I thought running fewer than 6 people through a zone that scales results in the loot being gimped due to the average level being lower. Anybody know for sure? I thought we had seen that once but it might have just been one of those zones where all the items give weird increments like 22 and 33 heal/spell mod instead of multiples of 5.

Yimway

01-30-2009, 07:47 PM

The OP's sentiments have been expressed in many places already, and I do agree.There is no reason to eliminate offensive tanking playstyle in order to fix defensive tanking playstyle.Both should be in the game, both should be viable. Unbreak the buff merger, leave o-stance alone, and just fix taunts in D-stance.Allow the player to chose which style is best for them for which encounter. Make the 2 styles hard / impossible to change mid fight.Quit pidgeon holing players into your narrow vision.

ShadowMunkie

01-30-2009, 09:12 PM

I completely agree with one thing. Do not change offensive tanking the way it is being changed. Don't say that the spell merger is because it'll take less time buffing. If it takes more time buffing tanks won't care we already have to wait 2 minutes for revive sickness. There isn't a reason to have the spell merger. If you want to fix the game then there is one simple solution.Defensive Stance - Makes taunts 50% stronger and reduces damage incoming and outgoing by 50%Offensive Stance - Makes damage incoming and outgoing 50% more and reduces taunts by 50%

Slowin

01-31-2009, 03:36 AM

Have any of you tried tanking in offensive on test yet? I was in a group on my brig and the SK with us tanked the entire zone in offensive stance and helped aggro no problem -- we didn't have any deaths either. Tanking in offensive is not impossible with this update, and due to the increase in damage you take it should not be boring either.

Noaani

01-31-2009, 06:03 AM

<cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I thought running fewer than 6 people through a zone that scales results in the loot being gimped due to the average level being lower. </blockquote>Umm...In order to find the average level of any group of players, you add their levels together, and then divide by the number of samples you used.For six level 80s, that would be ((80 + 80 + 80 + 80 + 80 + 80) / 6) = 80.For four level 60s, that would be (( 80 + 80 + 80 + 80) / 4) = 80.Go figure.

Alima_Tunare

02-03-2009, 12:31 PM

The reason behind these changes is that when a tank tanks, hes supposed to stand up to the job. He's the one taking the hits and his dps is not important. Otherwise, why not have what we are seeing more and more of, have a scout tank. A tank in offensive stance is a stand up guy who wants to do more dps which means hes not the tank. Before they cut back on guardian dps, we had them topping our parse if not in the top 3 slots. Thats wrong, a tank isnt supposed to be tier 1 dps. And thats why these changes should happen. Its only a matter of how well they can hold agro against the true dps classes that needs to be worked out and so far I havent seen anyone making actual comments on that. Everything has been waa waa i cant "tank" in offensive anymore.

Lord Hackenslash

02-03-2009, 06:56 PM

<cite>Alima_Tunare wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason behind these changes is that when a tank tanks, hes supposed to stand up to the job. He's the one taking the hits and his dps is not important. Otherwise, why not have what we are seeing more and more of, have a scout tank. A tank in offensive stance is a stand up guy who wants to do more dps which means hes not the tank. Before they cut back on guardian dps, we had them topping our parse if not in the top 3 slots. Thats wrong, a tank isnt supposed to be tier 1 dps. And thats why these changes should happen. Its only a matter of how well they can hold agro against the true dps classes that needs to be worked out and so far I havent seen anyone making actual comments on that. Everything has been waa waa i cant "tank" in offensive anymore.</blockquote>Please keep in mind first off I never said don't adjust DPS that's not the point of this topic. What I was getting at is eventually when you play alot, some parts of the game become easier for you. I have a VP geared mythical Raid tank and if I do an easy instance, lets use Vaults in Overthere for this example, I take almost no damage in that zone. Now its not fun to stay defensive in there for me or my healers who usually are the ones asking me to go offensive in the first place so they have something to do. I play healers myself and have solo healed that zone with a mage tanking it because a fighter would have been boring. So some content. Defensive stance is just not relevant.On the other hand if I do inner stronghold where I am tanking 20+ mobs at once you bet I am defensive. So really the point is I want the option to make older content more interesting rather than be forced into defensive stance in order to hold aggro on blue con mobs.Some tanks think all they are is DPS in heavy armor. There are bad players of every class. I am a tank and I hold aggro regardless of it being through DPS or aggro abilities. Not all tanking situations are equal and that is why we have our stances in the first place.The anger most of us have with the current changes is not the lowering of DPS but thedumbing down of tanking to where we can do it with autoattack and pressing 4 button over and over. As for Guardians out DPSing your DPS classes I would have to see some parses but I bet your DPS are slacking. Alot of people think just cause they are an assasin they automatically get top DPS just by hitting for 50k every 5 minutes. Alot of those raids will have a tank hitting 3 - 4k cause of all the buffs they have on them and then have the dps pulling 2 - 3k and then complaining that the tank is doing too much. Its the opposite! Those DPS classes should be pulling 4k at the very least and when fully geared up will be hitting 8-10k comfortably. They need to work on the DPS just as much as the healers need to heal and the tank needs to hold aggro. This is all speculation and if your guardian is hitting 9k DPS then maybe there is an issue and i can see it from your point of view. Please share some info so we can figure out who is out of balance.Thank you.

Eugam

02-04-2009, 05:43 AM

<cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I have a VP geared mythical Raid tank and if I do an easy instance, lets use Vaults in Overthere for this example, I take almost no damage in that zone. Now its not fun to stay defensive in there for me or my healers who usually are the ones asking me to go offensive in the first place so they have something to do. I play healers myself and have solo healed that zone with a mage tanking it because a fighter would have been boring. So some content. Defensive stance is just not relevant.</blockquote>Melina thats the point.Raid gear is out of any balance, not DPS or anything. A fabled piece of mage cloth has more HP then a piece of T2 legendary leather. A full fabled mage is almost able to tank Scions <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> With two healers he definetely is <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Everyone is hating me for this, but i am not scared to say it. Now we pay for the mistakes of the past. Fabled is out of sync on a ridiculous level. Raid content is completely out of sync compared to the rest of the game. All hail the Koster paradigm and item fetishism <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> LOLOne more expansion and a full fabled is twice as tough as a legendary itemized player. How are the devs supposed to create solo and group content under such conditions ? Something hast to happen. If they would nerf fabled and raid mobs the forum would burn, not to mention the loss of subscriptions.I am with you for the most part. The old changes to +agression and hate transfer where unneccessary. The game was not broken, tanking and taunting was not broken, but they had the urge to fix it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Basically we just could return to the old code from pre DoF and just raise the numbers on taunts, stances and whatever. What ever happens, some will complain.And its SOE lol. I am taking bets the code they implement today will be in EQ3 as well <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Vulkan_NTooki

02-04-2009, 07:58 AM

<cite>Strayslayer@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Take a trio or group of 4 through the zone. Voila! More challenge.</blockquote>Nope.. this just means even slower progress.

Vulkan_NTooki

02-04-2009, 08:20 AM

Vulkan_NTooki

02-04-2009, 08:24 AM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I have a VP geared mythical Raid tank and if I do an easy instance, lets use Vaults in Overthere for this example, I take almost no damage in that zone. Now its not fun to stay defensive in there for me or my healers who usually are the ones asking me to go offensive in the first place so they have something to do. I play healers myself and have solo healed that zone with a mage tanking it because a fighter would have been boring. So some content. Defensive stance is just not relevant.</blockquote>Melina thats the point.Raid gear is out of any balance, not DPS or anything. A fabled piece of mage cloth has more HP then a piece of T2 legendary leather. A full fabled mage is almost able to tank Scions <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> With two healers he definetely is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />Everyone is hating me for this, but i am not scared to say it. Now we pay for the mistakes of the past. Fabled is out of sync on a ridiculous level. Raid content is completely out of sync compared to the rest of the game. All hail the Koster paradigm and item fetishism <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> LOLOne more expansion and a full fabled is twice as tough as a legendary itemized player. How are the devs supposed to create solo and group content under such conditions ? Something hast to happen. If they would nerf fabled and raid mobs the forum would burn, not to mention the loss of subscriptions.I am with you for the most part. The old changes to +agression and hate transfer where unneccessary. The game was not broken, tanking and taunting was not broken, but they had the urge to fix it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> Basically we just could return to the old code from pre DoF and just raise the numbers on taunts, stances and whatever. What ever happens, some will complain.And its SOE lol. I am taking bets the code they implement today will be in EQ3 as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>There are heroic instances that provide you with almost as good gear as raid gear.. Some even arguably better..

Lord Hackenslash

02-04-2009, 06:47 PM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I have a VP geared mythical Raid tank and if I do an easy instance, lets use Vaults in Overthere for this example, I take almost no damage in that zone. Now its not fun to stay defensive in there for me or my healers who usually are the ones asking me to go offensive in the first place so they have something to do. I play healers myself and have solo healed that zone with a mage tanking it because a fighter would have been boring. So some content. Defensive stance is just not relevant.</blockquote>Melina thats the point.Raid gear is out of any balance, not DPS or anything. A fabled piece of mage cloth has more HP then a piece of T2 legendary leather. A full fabled mage is almost able to tank Scions <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> With two healers he definetely is <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />Everyone is hating me for this, but i am not scared to say it. Now we pay for the mistakes of the past. Fabled is out of sync on a ridiculous level. Raid content is completely out of sync compared to the rest of the game. All hail the Koster paradigm and item fetishism <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> LOLOne more expansion and a full fabled is twice as tough as a legendary itemized player. How are the devs supposed to create solo and group content under such conditions ? Something hast to happen. If they would nerf fabled and raid mobs the forum would burn, not to mention the loss of subscriptions.I am with you for the most part. The old changes to +agression and hate transfer where unneccessary. The game was not broken, tanking and taunting was not broken, but they had the urge to fix it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> Basically we just could return to the old code from pre DoF and just raise the numbers on taunts, stances and whatever. What ever happens, some will complain.And its SOE lol. I am taking bets the code they implement today will be in EQ3 as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Just out of curiosity, why should cloth armor have less hp than leather? The difference between the 2 is mitigation, not hp or MP or resists. HP and MP are used by all classes. There is little reason for a difference other than play style. Casters get to eat the same aoes in the face that melee classes do. (some are joustable but in those cases the melees usually joust too)

Eugam

02-05-2009, 03:58 AM

<cite>Melina@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just out of curiosity, why should cloth armor have less hp than leather? The difference between the 2 is mitigation, not hp or MP or resists. HP and MP are used by all classes. There is little reason for a difference other than play style. Casters get to eat the same aoes in the face that melee classes do. (some are joustable but in those cases the melees usually joust too)</blockquote>Dont get me wrong Melina. I *know* you are an excellent tank <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am not guessing it, i know it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What i want to say is, that fabled is out of sync with group content. You said it yourself. As full fabled tank you hardly take damage in scions and you would like to go in off stance there. The difference is growing more and more since EoF. This is a huge problem. You as raider probably dont recognize it. I gave up on raiding somewhere at FTH. Since then i am progressing through the legendary sets. EoF, RoK and now T1 shards on my way to T2 shard set. For me and a lot others itemized like me the upper end of the group dungeons are not really doable anymore.Next expansion with a new level cap the raiders will again gain more compared to legendary and by then will be close to twice as tough to kill. The upper hard group content will be designed for the best itemized players. Just like in the last 2 expansions. Right now the legendaries struggle very hard in Atrebes. Next expansion we dont have to bother to visit the hard place, they will be impossible if the disparity between fabled and legendary keeps growing.Remember early Labs raids ? Only very few have been full fabled and the fabled items where no sets and had no bonus except for the rare relics. However, those who played well could beat labs (and other KoS raids). This is not possible anymore. Actually even group content is not completely possible for everyone anymore. This will hurt the game more and more on the long run.So 190 HP on a fabled cloth compared to 150 HP on legendary leather is a problem. Such a full fabled wizzy has tank buffed probably more HP then a legendary guardian. Give him a shammy and a druid, a chanter and 2 high dps and he tanks scions and holds aggro better then most tanks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This disparity is wrong. I am not jealous. I dont mind people have full fabled and mythicals. But it hurts the game as whole if those items are 1.5 to 2.5 tiers ahead of the crowd.

Eugam

02-05-2009, 05:09 AM

<cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are heroic instances that provide you with almost as good gear as raid gear.. Some even arguably better..</blockquote>Define almost <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And what does almost mean for certain classes ?A 8900 HP mage is oneshotted, where a 9200 lives. Well, the 8.9k mage almost lived as well <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The 10k HP healer almost lives on pull, the 10.2k healer lives long enough to give the tank time to taunt again.I know, i wont change the world <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Still i ll continue to tell people that the difficulty of an encounter has to be defined by the number of allowed players and NEVER by their itemization. 24, 12, 6, 2 and 1. Everything else is a dead end road for the game as whole. I dont have a problem if a fabled piece has a slight egde, but it cant be that items are the key and the only key to play content.I dont mind if raid is hard enough to only allow the serious people to do them, i do mind if there is basically no chance to even finish the the Shadow Odyssey questline, which is group content. Fabled tanks almost get oneshooted in Atrebes, how is a legendary tank supposed to do that ?

Vulkan_NTooki

02-05-2009, 06:31 AM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are heroic instances that provide you with almost as good gear as raid gear.. Some even arguably better..</blockquote>Define almost <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> And what does almost mean for certain classes ?A 8900 HP mage is oneshotted, where a 9200 lives. Well, the 8.9k mage almost lived as well <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />The 10k HP healer almost lives on pull, the 10.2k healer lives long enough to give the tank time to taunt again.I know, i wont change the world <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Still i ll continue to tell people that the difficulty of an encounter has to be defined by the number of allowed players and NEVER by their itemization. 24, 12, 6, 2 and 1. Everything else is a dead end road for the game as whole. I dont have a problem if a fabled piece has a slight egde, but it cant be that items are the key and the only key to play content.I dont mind if raid is hard enough to only allow the serious people to do them, i do mind if there is basically no chance to even finish the the Shadow Odyssey questline, which is group content. Fabled tanks almost get oneshooted in Atrebes, how is a legendary tank supposed to do that ?</blockquote>Well.. I can only speak for wizards and paladins I guess...Link to my eq2players profile..<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=240518204">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=240518204</a>I have mostly instance gear(except my mythical) and Im 72.5% avoidance and 63% mitigation self buffed with potions/food in defensive.If I wanted more HP I'd switch out some of the legendary gear with fabled bracer from atrebe, fabled belt from veksar, fabled neck from vaults(rok) and there are still some pre-tso items from instances I still want.. like the fabled earring from veksar 1. And there is still plenty of items from TSO instances I want for both my paladin and my wizard.TSO instances even the easy to moderate ones have plenty of fabled items that are usually better than VP stuff(except perhaps VP set due to their bonuses).<a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/1724907443">Ring of the Deepest Waters</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/-1833295871">Deepwater Barrier</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/-1157721601">Wand of Elemental Knowledge</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/1708160282">Earring of the Void Transfer</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/1702698910">Zynos' Helm of Voidcalling</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/-643360218">Drakota Fang Necklace</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/1742204660">Najena's Ring of Readiness</a><a title="FABLED" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/item/-839770960">Signet of Vampire Kind</a>Some of these are even preferred over tso raid loot..

Danelin

02-05-2009, 07:55 AM

Generally speaking the combination of critical mitigation and potent effects result in a lot of our guild's raid members (including my inquisitor) looking at VP pieces and saying 'nah. I don't want this, greater shard is better.'A lot of the big struggles in the hard zones come from not knowing scripts, not knowing the tricks, and not being adequately geared in instance/shard drops to be able to cope.I only know of a couple encounters out there that I wouldn't touch without a fully mythed group, and even then I might be missing a trick somewhere.1 - the linked mannequins in ravenscale. These guys are absurd. Insane dps, high hps, immune to taunt, and mem blur constantly. Either your whole group can tank them, your tank is a massively geared zerk, or your group is dead. If anyone knows a trick to trivialize this encounter, by all means share.2 - The trio of librarians in Palace. The fight just takes too [Removed for Content] long without mythical levels of power regeneration.Anything else I would have done with greater-shard geared toons with fabled epics and felt pretty good about it, as long as everyone is good at their class.If your MT is topping your parse, your DPSers are slackers. End of story. I don't care how badass your tank is. Even summoners should be able to handily outparse a comparably geared tank, and they are definitely in the running for 'most gimped DPS class' at the moment.I have seen high parsing tanks over and over again since KoS, and it was always a combination of the same basic factors.1 - The MT is usually the best geared toon in a raid force.2 - The MT usually has ideal or close to ideal buffs to maximize DPS3 - The MT is usually very skilled at their class4 - DPS players are often lazy about even basic learning of their classMy first EQ2 raid force was an alliance that had been having their berserker MT top parses routinely until I joined. I went from parsing off the bottom of the chart on my first raid before I knew anything about maximizing necro DPS to consistent #1 zonewide and on most if not all encounters in a zone for that raid force just by learning my class. I had crap luck on loot rolls and was fully adept 3 on my first raid as well as on the one when I first started hitting #1 all the time.Tank DPS is NOT overpowered or out of line currently, and the loss of the ability to tank while offensive (or the ability to switch quickly when needed) is just a pointless dumbing down of the class structure that will make many tanks and healers quit the game. Making defensive a more appealing stance to tank in, especially for berserkers who get the joy of relying on outside hate generation until their gear is topend in defensive yet not being able to survive offensive, would be a welcome change. Killing offensive tanking to do it is just stupid. It doesn't give us anything to look forward to.

Vulkan_NTooki

02-05-2009, 08:09 AM

The 5 named encounter in ravenscale isnt really that hard.. no point in survival or aggro gear for the tank.. just go full out offensive and do healer, monk, then whichever is closest. Fear those u can, root those u can and fight the others..If u see cleric or pet in the encounter before u engage, have 1 person drop group and engage and die to reset the encounter until u get one without cleric or pet(bat).I usually do this encounter with 2 healers but the damage they do aint really that bad..I struggle more with the firework guy that needs to be dead within 30 secs at 20%.. for some reason we allways wipe at 3-7% due to stun or something.. rarr..

Eugam

02-05-2009, 08:50 AM

<cite>Danelin wrote:</cite><blockquote>If your MT is topping your parse, your DPSers are slackers. End of story. I don't care how badass your tank is.</blockquote>Neither do i care. My main is a healer and old, current and upcomming tankage system has its points. As healer i never cared for any parse, not even heal parse'es. As long as nobody drops to the floor my job is done. Because i remember the old days i do belif into the upcomming revamp. But not because of tank dps, i just belief more into taunts then dps tankage.Well, maybe i am playing with the wrong people. What i see is a mess from A-Z. As healer since 2005 i have healed a lot of tanks and i thought i know a good tank when i see him. And in the last weeks i see good tanks failing. I see squishies in ok gear without the chance to live through the overly used AE's. I thought such crap left the game when fizzles where removed. Probably i should step down from the hard heroic stuff aswell.

Vulkan_NTooki

02-05-2009, 09:02 AM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Danelin wrote:</cite><blockquote>If your MT is topping your parse, your DPSers are slackers. End of story. I don't care how badass your tank is.</blockquote>Neither do i care. My main is a healer and old, current and upcomming tankage system has its points. As healer i never cared for any parse, not even heal parse'es. As long as nobody drops to the floor my job is done. Because i remember the old days i do belif into the upcomming revamp. But not because of tank dps, i just belief more into taunts then dps tankage.Well, maybe i am playing with the wrong people. What i see is a mess from A-Z. As healer since 2005 i have healed a lot of tanks and i thought i know a good tank when i see him. And in the last weeks i see good tanks failing. I see squishies in ok gear without the chance to live through the overly used AE's. I thought such crap left the game when fizzles where removed. Probably i should step down from the hard heroic stuff aswell.</blockquote>I just like to point out one thing..Most tanks are thrilled about being able to tank in defensive and still being able to hold aggro.. The fuzz is about not being able to stay in offensive for the easy content that doesnt require the defensive abilities on the new defensive stance.. The easy content changes over a period of time.. whats moderate today, might be easy in 2 months because u have experience, more aa, better gear etcOn live you rarely have an option.. u go offensive stance no matter what because you need to hold aggro(unless u have dirge/coercer/assassin or your a paladin). On test u have to go defensive no matter what because u need to hold aggro. So u go from one forced stance, into another (with even less choices than live due to dirge/coercer/assassin/paladin transfer nerfs).Most tanks want the option to be able to hold aggro in either stance based on the encounter difficulty, and not based on a flawed perception of how tanks are only supposed to take dmg and taunt.