Threat on heals

[judoruss]

<p>  Since hate has become the focus of the game with GU 51.  Starting from the fighters and working it's way down.  Like scouts and mages.  What about Priests?  Long ago in a lost update I can't recall when and was around DoF/KoS time period, heal agro got nerf down to 1 heal point = 0.5 threat.  I believe the revamp on agro in general is a good idea, though I still ponder why 1 point of damage = 1 threat, 1 point of taunt = 1 threat, and heals aren't being effected with this update.  In all fairness priests heals need to be inline with everyone elses threat.  Matter of fact all heals should follow the same rules with the rest of the ways threat works in the upcoming GU.  Granted at onetime heals where 1 point of healing = 1 threat  and tanks couldn't create enough agro to keep up.  Hence the adjustment was needed then, though IMHO they should of adjust the threat of fighters then.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p>I agree, give the tanks more people to have to worry about <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Daedalus Raistlin]

I'm not sure where your stance is on this one. Previously, with my mentored mystic + monk duo, my mystic could only very occasionally heal or ward, or else he'd pull aggro pretty much instantly. Now on test, my monk easily keeps the aggro, even with the mystic warding, debuffing, and healing like mad. I like this change, it's nice that my tank can .. err, tank.

[LardLord]

<p>As a healer, I dislike having to worry about ripping aggro with heals.  It is unfun, in my opinion.</p><p>Please do not make heal aggro any more of a concern than it is.</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>judoruss wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Since hate has become the focus of the game with GU 51. Starting from the fighters and working it's way down. Like scouts and mages. What about Priests? Long ago in a lost update I can't recall when and was around DoF/KoS time period, heal agro got nerf down to 1 heal point = 0.5 threat. I believe the revamp on agro in general is a good idea, though I still ponder why 1 point of damage = 1 threat, 1 point of taunt = 1 threat, and heals aren't being effected with this update. In all fairness priests heals need to be inline with everyone elses threat. Matter of fact all heals should follow the same rules with the rest of the ways threat works in the upcoming GU. Granted at onetime heals where 1 point of healing = 1 threat and tanks couldn't create enough agro to keep up. Hence the adjustment was needed then, though IMHO they should of adjust the threat of fighters then.</p></blockquote><p>LOL <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Do you know hat happens when my warden casts a group HoT that crits and procs an overheal that crits while the spores on the tank trigger and crit and the tree and the fairy crit while at the same time a few of the previous critted, overheled HoTs tick ? I ll have aggro until SOE shuts down the server.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p></blockquote><p>Thats with 1 heal = 0.5 threat. If it was 1 heal = 1 threat us healers would be able to have way more hate then any dps class. A simple group heal up after AE that crits is worth 15-20k. Not to mention the ticking wards, HoT's or reactives. We would tank every single mob.</p><p>I once was on a healer only Labs raid. It was fun, but i think its not what the devs or the majority of the players want <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Illine]

<p>and it's even worse with groups. If you have adds, and everybody attacks the same mob, the heals will increase hate toward the mobs even if healers don't target them.</p><p>it's nice that way, and I don't see why the heal hate should be increased.</p>

[Ceolus]

<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p></blockquote><p>Thats with 1 heal = 0.5 threat. If it was 1 heal = 1 threat us healers would be able to have way more hate then any dps class. A simple group heal up after AE that crits is worth 15-20k. Not to mention the ticking wards, HoT's or reactives. We would tank every single mob.</p><p>I once was on a healer only Labs raid. It was fun, but i think its not what the devs or the majority of the players want <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Yeah but healers average 1.8k-3k heals per second (much less on easier fights).  DPS classes reach the 10k's. What's the ratio of damage to threat?</p><p>Labs wasn't too bad and tanks, after GU51, will have a lot more tools to keep aggro than they did in KOS. They'll also be more bored.</p>

[Writer Cal]

<p><cite>judoruss wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>  Since hate has become the focus of the game with GU 51.  Starting from the fighters and working it's way down.  Like scouts and mages.  What about Priests?  Long ago in a lost update I can't recall when and was around DoF/KoS time period, heal agro got nerf down to 1 heal point = 0.5 threat.  I believe the revamp on agro in general is a good idea, though I still ponder why 1 point of damage = 1 threat, 1 point of taunt = 1 threat, and heals aren't being effected with this update.  In all fairness priests heals need to be inline with everyone elses threat.  Matter of fact all heals should follow the same rules with the rest of the ways threat works in the upcoming GU.  Granted at onetime heals where 1 point of healing = 1 threat  and tanks couldn't create enough agro to keep up.  Hence the adjustment was needed then, though IMHO they should of adjust the threat of fighters then.</p></blockquote><p>Okies, I'll just say what I always say when I rip off a not-so-great tank from heals alone.  "What do you expect me to do?  Heal less and just let you die?"  Only I'll say it more often.  I'm sure this will work so well.</p>

[denmom]

<p>I can get aggro on Live without any heals, without any buffs on the tank (no Spores to go off), when the tank body pulls.  I've even had aggro when Amends is on in the duo, same above situation, aggro runs right to me.</p><p>But in Test, I've deliberately prehealed, nada.  A <strong><em>brief</em></strong> blip of 100 on the meter then the next second it's all over the tank.  I think it was Kiljoi body pulling, not sure.  I was watching bars too intently to really see, have my threat meter near my group window to keep it in view.</p><p>During the fights when I was healing like mad in when the mobs were all over the tank, the most I had was when an add came in, I spiked to 28 from a constant 3, and then it'd drop back down to 3 again when the Paladin or Guard or Brig got its attention.</p><p>I'd range from 1 to 9, 9 being when I had to really get the heals going, jumping thru the group window to catch damage directly with single target heals when the group heal wasn't enough.</p><p>I do need to do some more testing in a duo with the tank in offensive stance...not been able to lately.  But the above is from the recent playtest.</p>

[Ashdaren]

<p>I agree with OP, i miss my warden wife getting agro (1st year of the game druid were the only healer getting real agro lol and always dying btw)</p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p></blockquote><p>I once was on a healer only Labs raid. It was fun, but i think its not what the devs or the majority of the players want <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Labs wasn't too bad and tanks, after GU51, will have a lot more tools to keep aggro than they did in KOS. They'll also be more bored.</p></blockquote><p>It was a healer ONLY raid <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I wanted to say that it had no meaning who of the 24 healers had aggro <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I do see one positive point in increased heal threat. It would break the solo healer dogma and force groups to spread hate heal on two healers.</p>

[Spritelady]

<p>In groups on Live, I throw hibernate on the pull and I have instant aggro.  My husband is always yelling at me =(</p>

[Aule]

I generally spare a concentration slot on reducing hate for the healer if I have only the one in the group. I'm completely starved on concentration slots as it is, but it's worth it when there's only one of you around.

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p></blockquote><p>If there's a huge gear difference, you can rip aggro with heals.  For example, on the RE2 x2 during RoK with an undergeared (or especially sub-80) tank, I ripped aggro in a few groups with just heals, even well into the fight.  Honestly, it was pretty annoying from my perspective as the challenge/fun at that point is just keeping the weaker tank alive through the damage.  I can understand the theory of heal aggro in those cases, but the point of the game is to have fun, and it personally makes the game less fun for me.</p><p>Having to worry about heal aggro in less-extreme cases would obviously make it more of an annoyance for me.  Perhaps I'm in the minority here.</p><p>P.S If I understand correctly, Link will not help on a purely healing healer after these changes as the hate decrease will be proc-based.  Alin's is primarily proc-based now as well, so those changes could make aggro a bit more difficult for healers without touching the heal:threat ratio.</p>

[Kinadin]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ceolus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even pre-warding then spam healing I've not gotten aggro since '06.</p></blockquote><p>If there's a huge gear difference, you can rip aggro with heals.  For example, on the RE2 x2 during RoK with an undergeared (or especially sub-80) tank, I ripped aggro in a few groups with just heals, even well into the fight.  Honestly, it was pretty annoying from my perspective as the challenge/fun at that point is just keeping the weaker tank alive through the damage.  I can understand the theory of heal aggro in those cases, but the point of the game is to have fun, and it personally makes the game less fun for me.</p><p>Having to worry about heal aggro in less-extreme cases would obviously make it more of an annoyance for me.  Perhaps I'm in the minority here.</p><p>P.S If I understand correctly, Link will not help on a purely healing healer after these changes as the hate decrease will be proc-based.  Alin's is primarily proc-based now as well, so those changes could make aggro a bit more difficult for healers without touching the heal:threat ratio.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.  I rip aggro from any non mythical tank as it is.  A one to one ratio for heal aggro would just make it impossible to play without spending part of the fight twiddling my thumbs.</p>

[Ishkur]

Don't ruin small groups with your large group mindset. If heal aggro is increased, small groups will suffer significantly. I don't want to be reduced to a heal-bot in my small group who is unable to attack (or heal) because I'll garner too much hate.

[Komono]

Dont the update notes say that the heal hate increase is only affective for the fighter classes not all heals in the game.

[gatrm]

<p>Heh, if you increase heal aggro to what it was pre lu13, then put mitigation back on jewelry or make the mobs hit softer cause i'll be tanking like I was back then......</p><p>As it is in most pugs I rip aggro continually on my warden, especially if I try to add any dps at all to my heals.  There's a ton of tanks out there who simply just cannot keep aggro.....I am hoping with these boosts to tanks aggro tools that I will stop ripping aggro from healing alone.</p>

[AziBam]

<p>If anything, I see this change pushing groups towards one healer and away from a second.  Tank dps will be down some so the group will need to make up for it.  Tanks also will be a bit more durable staying in DEF stance so SHOULD require a bit less healing.  Other than guards and paladins you didn't see too many tanks in DEF stance unless they were forced into it by really hard hitting mobs the way things are live now.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Komono wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Dont the update notes say that the heal hate increase is only affective for the fighter classes not all heals in the game.</blockquote><p>Actually it's just Paladins. The threat associated with their heals/wards was increased by 300%. There was no mention of this being done for any other fighter class that has heals. (Edit: And if anything impacts the idea of playing a "Healadin", this change does, although honestly that was never really a viable spec for Paladins to begin with).</p>

[Komono]

Yeah so why are so many healers fuming on here about their hate being increased. HAHAHA

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Komono wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Yeah so why are so many healers fuming on here about their hate being increased. HAHAHA</blockquote><p>Particularly when it's not being increased.</p>

[gatrm]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Komono wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Yeah so why are so many healers fuming on here about their hate being increased. HAHAHA</blockquote><p>Particularly when it's not being increased.</p></blockquote><p>Because the OP requested a change in healing hate to make it 1:1....we are just decrying that request....please pay attention.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the OP requested a change in healing hate to make it 1:1....we are just decrying that request....please pay attention.</p></blockquote><p>I have been, but by the amount of wailing in here, you'd think it was a change that was actually being considered. Let me help you out with the correct response to the OP:</p><p>"It is an abjectly idiotic proposal. Next."</p>

[Matia]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the OP requested a change in healing hate to make it 1:1....we are just decrying that request....please pay attention.</p></blockquote><p>I have been, but by the amount of wailing in here, you'd think it was a change that was actually being considered. Let me help you out with the correct response to the OP:</p><p>"It is an abjectly idiotic proposal. Next."</p></blockquote><p>Which means it's got a high probability of already being on the to-do list when they get to healers.</p>